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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

You May Have Got Dan Haren, But Look Who We Got Arizona. Ha Ha!

Nothing is truly official yet, but Tony Jackson is reporting that we got Hiroki Kuroda signed to a three year deal for 36 to 40 million dollars. Yes, being an average pitcher in Japan now means that you get more money per year than Ted Lilly, who at least managed to be an average pitcher in America. I already covered exactly why I don't like Kuroda, so I'll just reprint that here:

Ned Colletti, Takashi Saito, and a bevy of Dodger officals made their way to Japan in order to court Japanese pitcher Hiroki Kuroda. Kuroda has been called the class of the Japanese pitching market, and supposedly his close friendship with Takashi Saito makes the Dodgers one of the favorites to land him.

The thing is, Kuroda isn't all that exciting of a pitcher. To best make my point, we'll play the beloved compare Kuroda to a mystery player game.

Kuroda, age 32 season: 179.7 IP, 6.16 K/9, 2.10 BB/9, 2.92 K/BB, 1 HR/9

Mystery pitcher, age 28 season: 192.7 IP, 5.70 K/9, 2.66 BB/9, 2.14 K/BB, 1.03 HR/9

And the mystery pitcher is...a small Filipino woman. Have I just blown your mind?

No wait, it's Kyle Lohse. Point is that while Kuroda is the superior pitcher, the fact that Lohse is four years younger, pitched in two of the biggest hitters parks in baseball, and actually was facing big league competition makes the gap mighty close. Now, since the general reaction to a Kyle Lohse signing would be Jonestown-esque, acquiring someone who might be a little better shouldn't inspire much confidence.

The scouting report on Kuroda is also pretty troubling. He doesn't have overpowering velocity with a fastball that sits in the low 90s, so he'll have trouble missing bats with that. More distressing is the fact that he has trouble keeping his slider down, which will almost certainly result in giving up a ton of bombs in the states if he keeps going to it like the scouting report suggests. His only swing and miss pitch in a splitter, but judging by his mediocre strikeout rate in the NPB, it doesn't look like people swing and miss at the thing all that often.

Kuroda is a player entering his mid 30s that had trouble missing bats against inferior competition. The only starters that have come from Japan with strikeout rates worse than Kuroda's are Keiichi Yabu and Masato Yoshii, neither of whom were exactly successful in their time in the states. Kuroda comes in with better control that either of those guys had, but it's still not a list of players that you want to be associated with.

Kuroda's "upside" comes from the fact that we aren't entirely certain that he's going to suck like Lohse will. Will he be able to get by just by being a new arm in the league in his first season? Maybe. But there's absolutely nothing here that suggests Kuroda will have any real sustained success in the bigs. If he can't keep his slider down, Kuroda becomes a two pitch pitcher in the bigs, and his out pitch isn't really all that fearsome.

And yes, all of this could be wrong, just look at what Saito did. However, I might have to invoke the Jamie Moyer rule and say that Takashi Saito can not be used as a precedent for anything. A guy leaping from a mediocre middle reliever in Japan to quite possibly the most dominant closer in the MLB at age 37 isn't likely to happen again. Unless Saito's magical transformation starts happening again and again, mediocre in Japan will probably mean worse than mediocre in the states. That pretty well sums up Kuroda.

There's a good chance that Kuroda isn't the fifth best pitcher on the team as it is right now, considering that we already have the out of options Hong-Chih Kuo, and James McDonald looked pretty ready for the big time last year. There's an even better chance that he won't be the fifth best pitcher on the team next year when Johan Santana, C.C. Sabathia and Ben Sheets enter the market, and Clayton Kershaw and Scott Elbert have a good chance of being ready for the rotation.

That leaves two upsides to this signing. The first is that Kuroda will probably be better than Esteban Loaiza, making us a better team this year and giving us more depth when the injuries to our pitching staff start piling up. The second is that he gives us another option next year if the top arms get taken off the market and none of our young pitchers are ready. Even in the second case though, I'd probably rather give this money to Derek Lowe or Oliver Perez than Kuroda.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kuroda was pretty good the first time through the league, then started to crumble after that. The ability to dominate a lower league is very important to me when moving up a level of competition, and Kuroda was simply unable to do that. We get very little upside here, and the downside is the chance Kuroda is the second coming of Kei Igawa. The only hope we have here is that Kuroda goes Saito on the league, and gambling 12 million dollars plus on that fact seems very risky.

Update>>It's offical, Kuroda signed for three years, 35.3 million.

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Can't argue with you...
but I am going to take a wait N see approach to this signing.  We didn't give up any prospects, we didn't give up any draft picks, we could use some quality at the bottom of the rotation, and by quality I am talking in the context of the #4/#5 spots.  Yes, Stults and Houlton etc..., are cheaper but I am fairly confident not as good as Kuroda.  The Haren and Kuroda trade/signing are apples and oranges.  Arizona got a #2 starter and paid a fairly steep price in terms of prospects.  The Dodgers?  Paid with hard cash, which one could argue could've been spent somewhere else, like on bonus' for draft picks...

vr, Xei

by xeifrank @ True Blue LA on Dec 15, 2007 3:10 PM PST reply actions  

I'm optimistic
It's not my money, and the team does have cash to blow, after all. I'm predicting around 170 innings with a 4.2 ERA. Not breath-taking, and not worth the 13 mil a year or so we're paying him, but hey ... he might turn out to be a surprise. And we still have all the youngins.

http://prospectinsider.com/2007/10/20/the-japanese-scouting-report/

There's a scouting report on him. I know the biggest knock against him is his mediocre fastball and his propensity to not get his slider down, but like it says in the report ... he only allowed 20 homers in 179.2 innings. That's pretty good for playing at a stadium with 300-foot walls in right and left.

So year, I'm with Xei on the "wait-and-see" approach.

by no1cowboysfan on Dec 15, 2007 3:53 PM PST reply actions  

Park Factors
"he only allowed 20 homers in 179.2 innings. That's pretty good for playing at a stadium with 300-foot walls in right and left."

Clearly Ned thought this looked great on a spray chart.

But seriously, could it be that Saito isn't the only Japanese pitcher who benefits from an American baseball in throwing a slider?

by StolenMonkey86 on Dec 15, 2007 8:22 PM PST reply actions  

I agree
with Andrew on this. Perhaps it will work out for us, as we saw last year rotation depth can be very valuable. But as of now we have 3 highly paid pitchers (Schmit, Loaiza,and Kuroda) who may all be close to replacement level, but if they are somewhat healthly at the begining of the year Kou will end up giving some other team (probably a rival) quality cheap innings.

by schoffle on Dec 15, 2007 8:28 PM PST reply actions  

Kuo
is out of options? I can't believe they would let him go.

by westside23 on Dec 15, 2007 11:12 PM PST reply actions  

Guo
I don't believe they will be letting him go either.  Look at all the projection systems and the great ratio stats he is suppose to put up.  Of course, what good are they if you only pitch 40 innings. :)

vr, Xei

by xeifrank @ True Blue LA on Dec 15, 2007 11:51 PM PST reply actions  

Silver Lining
This move at least prevents Ned from overreacting to the other moves within the division by trading for Bedard, and I'd rather give up cash than give up prospects.

by Rich @ True Blue LA on Dec 16, 2007 8:08 AM PST reply actions  

I like this deal
I agree that Saito isn't a good comp, but for reasons unknown, I'm optimistic about this.  At the very least, it saves Loney, Kemp, and Kershaw from being traded for a starter.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

by scareduck on Dec 16, 2007 8:29 AM PST reply actions  

Kuroda
We as Dodger fans can't have it both ways.  We either get a starting pitcher that costs a number of the possible stars (Arizona gave up six) or we spend money.  I don't know what scenario would make Andrew happy, but given the options this one works for me.

by bobmac on Dec 17, 2007 6:56 PM PST reply actions  

Re
It's not the spending money part that bothers me, it's just that I don't think he's that much of an improvement over Loaiza.

by Andrew on Dec 17, 2007 6:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Kuroda
Sure sounds like there might be cheaper or better options for a possible no 5 pitcher or a backup. Maybe Coletti knows something the rest of us don't...
Lobo

by BlueLobo on Dec 17, 2007 10:06 PM PST reply actions  

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2012 Dodgers Payroll

Italics denote estimates
Pos No Player 2012 Salary
C 17 Ellis $500,000 team control
1B 7 Loney $6,375,000
2B 14 Ellis $2,500,000
3B 5 Uribe $8,000,000
SS 9 Gordon $485,000 team control
LF 21 Rivera $4,000,000
CF 27 Kemp $10,000,000
RF 16 Ethier $10,950,000

IF/OF 6 Hairston $2,250,000
OF 10 Gwynn $850,000
2B/3B 3 Kennedy $800,000
C 18 Treanor $850,000
IF 12 Sellers $485,000 team control

SP 22 Kershaw $6,000,000
SP 58 Billingsley $9,000,000
SP 29 Lilly $12,000,000
SP 35 Capuano $3,000,000
SP 44
Harang $3,000,000

CL 54 Guerra $485,000 team control
RHP 74
Jansen $500,000 team control
RHP 55 Guerrier $4,750,000
RHP 60 Coffey $1,000,000
RHP 66 MacDougal $650,000
LHP 57 Elbert $485,000 team control
RHP 36
Hawksworth $500,000 team control

TJ 41 De La Rosa $485,000 team control



Manny $8,087,432 deferred


Andruw $3,375,000 deferred


Pierre $3,050,000 deferred
Furcal $3,000,000 deferred
Kuroda $2,000,000 deferred
Garland $1,500,000 option buyout
Blake $1,250,000 option buyout

Totals
$112,162,432

For more detailed information, click here.

Players on 40-man roster used as roster
fillers until moves are made.

Current 40-man roster count: 40
(not including Belisario)

2012 Non-Roster Invitees

No Player Age*
63 Jose Ascanio rhp
27
61 Alberto Castillo lhp
36
56 Matt Chico lhp
29
33 John Grabow lhp
33
59 Angel Guzman rhp
30
47 Wil Ledezma lhp
31
72 Shane Lindsay rhp
27
62 Fernando Nieve rhp 29
73 Scott Rice lhp 30
70 Will Savage rhp
27
71 Ryan Tucker rhp
25
28 Jamey Wright rhp
37

30 Josh Bard c 34
82 Griff Erickson c 24
81 Matt Wallachc 26
67 Jeff Baisley 3b/1b 29
65 Luis Cruz ss/2b 28
37 Josh Fields 3b 29
64 Lance Zawadzki if 27
56 Cory Sullivan of 32

*Age on June 30, 2012

NRI count: 20

For more info, click here.


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Eric___ned___reporters_2011_trade_deadline_small Eric Stephen

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