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Something Else I Was Wrong About

A point that I've seen brought up many times this off season is that we should rid ourselves of Jeff Kent and replace him with Tony Abreu. My first instinct was a simple, "that's a really dumb idea". Our team is hurting for offense and replacing possibly one of our best hitters with a guy that can on base .310 is not something that seems like a good idea.  However, after going through this years PECOTA projections, I started to reconsider and decided to seriously look at whether or not we can replace Jeff Kent's production right now with Tony Abreu.

The first thing to consider is offense, where Jeff Kent has his huge advantage over Abreu. Using this years PECOTA projections, we can figure out the projected difference between the bats of Kent and Abreu. Kent is projected to have a 32.1 VORP in 443 plate appearances, while Abreu looks to have a 12.5 VORP in 469 plate appearances. If you normalize both players to the same 443 plate apparances, Abreu's VORP drops to 11.8, so if Kent and Abreu both receive equal play time, Kent has a 20.3 run advantage over Abreu offensively.

Where Abreu can make up the difference is defense. It could be argued a few years ago that Kent was underrated defensively. When he originally came to LA and people complained that breaking up the Cora/Izturis middle infield was suicidal, it could actually be argued that Kent was a better defender than Cora in 2004. Kent had both a higher zone rating and a better rate2 than Cora that year.  He didn't have much range but he was great at positioning and was excellent at turning the double play. Now though, that's pretty much gone. Not much range has turned into no range as Kent ranked as the fourth worst second baseman in baseball according to John Dewan's + - system, and watching Kent made it clear that he just couldn't handle anything that wasn't hit right next to him. So, how good does Tony Abreu have to be defensively to make up for his bat?

To measure this, we first have to figure out how much a play made by a second baseman is worth, since + - is measured in plays. Fortunately, this is very doable for a middle infielder, since it's hard to imagine any play that a second baseman misses will turn into anything but a single.  Because of this, we can assume the value of any missed play is the difference between a single, and an out. According to linear weights a single is worth .465 runs and an out is worth -.25 runs, so a missed play by a second baseman costs the team .715 runs on average. This gets worse once we factor in double plays. Since there's no authoritative source on double play opportunities we have to estimate how many balls a second baseman fields are double play balls. NL second basemen had 7,161 assists last year, and they turned 1,774 double plays. If we assume that a second baseman fielded half of those double plays, we can make the figure that one in every eight balls a second baseman fields is a double play ball. Since a double play is worth -.839 runs, missing a double play ball costs your team 1.304 runs. With these two numbers in hand, the average missed play by second baseman costs a team .789 runs.

If we assume that Kent's defense degrades a bit as he hits 40, he'll be worth about -15 plays this year. This means that over the course of the year, Jeff Kent's glove will cost the Dodgers 11.835 runs versus the average second baseman. If you subtract these runs from his projected VORP, Jeff Kent will be worth 20.27 runs this year. (This isn't actually true since VORP is against replacement level and + - is against the average, but since I'm using the same system for both players, this works.)

With Abreu's adjusted VORP of 11.8, Abreu would have to put up a defensive rating of +11 in order match Kent's production. This is a good number, but not impossible to obtain. If Abreu did that in 2007, he would be the 7th best second baseman in baseball, around Brandon Phillips and Kaz Matsui. If the scouting reports on Abreu's defense are true, then this is definitely doable.

When you consider the odds of Jeff Kent simply falling off a cliff when he hits 40, then maybe it would be a good idea to trade Kent now and replace him with Abreu. Abreu's PECOTA projection of .279/.326/.408 seems within his reach, and simply having an above average glove will cause his value to eclipse Kent's. However, the Dodgers offense is fragile enough where it would take serious stones to weaken it further to improve on the team defense. On paper, replacing Kent with the arguably superior player and getting something back in a trade is a brilliant thing to do, but there's so much risk involved that I couldn't see a team that's trying to win this year attempting it.

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I saw the Pecota projections I didn't think you would be able to argue the case like you did. I felt they were overly generous for Kent. The fact that you could still argue the case for Abreu over Kent while using those generous offensive numbers just underscores the point that Kent is replaceable.

He won't get traded but on the other hand if/when he does go down with an injury we now know that the alternative is okay unless it is Lucille II.

by Phil Gurnee on Feb 14, 2008 2:58 PM PST reply actions  

Nice Work
Andrew, this is pretty good analysis.  I like that you are levelheaded and were able to step back and look at this objectively.
-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Feb 14, 2008 3:19 PM PST reply actions  

Whether in 2008 or 2009
This move will happen, unless the team finds another 2b that's not Abreu. In your opinion, is Abreu ready to play full time now? Does he have anything (if patience can be "learned") in the minors? If not, Abreu's just another young player being blocked who is at least as adequate as his elder.

by westside23 on Feb 14, 2008 3:42 PM PST reply actions  

Re
I wouldn't go that far. Kent and Abreu are very close in value and specialize in two very different things. This isn't nearly the same as starting Nomar over Loney.

I do believe that if Abreu isn't the starter, he needs to be in AAA to work on plate discipline.

by Andrew on Feb 14, 2008 3:44 PM PST up reply actions  

WARP projections
Interesting work, Andrew.  You obviously think pretty highly of the +/- system.  Not that I don't, it just seems like there's so much variability in even the best defensive metrics, and in a player's defensive numbers from year to year that it's hard to make this sort of prediction with much certainty.

If we want to go with PECOTA's take on defense as well as offense, Kent has Abreu in projected WARP 4.6 to 3.3.  Could we trading Kent give us an upgrade of more than a win somewhere else?  Doubt that the brass would want to have ANOTHER youngster in the lineup, but it would be worth a look I'd think...

by YLT on Feb 14, 2008 7:57 PM PST reply actions  

Re
PECOTA's defense projections are pretty bad. First, it uses the very flawed fielding runs to rate defense, so that's a problem. Other thing is that I recall PECOTA's defensive projection is really flawed, Silver simply regresses the numbers heavily to the mean, but I can't find where he wrote that so I might have imagined it.

by Andrew on Feb 16, 2008 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Kent
I doubt the Dodgers will trade Kent since he probably would just retire.  However, there is a way around Kent's defensive liability issues.  Move Kent to LF (I would like to hear that conversation!) in place of Pierre and replace him with Ethier late in the game for defensive purposes.  Kent cannot be much worse defensively, in LF, than Pierre.

Basically, you would be replacing Pierre with Abreu offensively and Kent defensively.  Not a great deal of an offensive upgrade to be sure, but a huge upgrade defensively for the entire team.

Personally, I would like to trade $$$, Pierre, Abreu and four of our expendable prospects (DeWitt, DeJesus, Orenduff and Wade) to Baltimore for Roberts and a salary dump like Huff.  With Roberts on board and leading off extending Furcal would not be as attractive for Ned.

by mjw101 on Feb 15, 2008 2:19 PM PST reply actions  

Re
Since Kent's big problem is a lack of mobility, he'd probably be horrible in left. Since left fielders in general are pretty bad, it wouldn't surprise me if Pierre was one of the best defensive left fielders in baseball.

by Andrew on Feb 16, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

possible slight correction
I think you made a slight error in your math (on the other hand, I probably just didn't understand your method).

Kent is projected to have a 32.1 VORP in 443 plate appearances, while Abreu looks to have a 12.5 VORP in 469 plate appearances. If you normalize both players to the same 443 plate apparances, Abreu's VORP drops to 11.8, so if Kent and Abreu both receive equal play time, Kent has a 20.3 run advantage over Abreu offensively.

I think Abreu's adjusted VORP should be 12.2 (12.5*443/469) for a 19.9, or half a play in Abreu's favor.  Not a big deal, I guess.  Hu seems like the best choice in the short term, though he might need time at 2nd in AAA.

by benaiah on Feb 15, 2008 11:53 PM PST reply actions  

Re
Are you sure, because I got 11.8 again when I redid the math.

by Andrew on Feb 16, 2008 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Plays to Runs
The fielding Bible website says, "use a number a little less than half of the plus/minus number as an estimate of runs prevented. Since the value of a single is a little less than half a run, you can use a "little less than half" of the plus/minus figure to estimate runs prevented. Adam Everett's plus/minus figure of +33 could be estimated as preventing about 15 runs." billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/overview.asp (bottom of page)

I guess the big difference is you add the missed out to the single to come up with your multiplier.  I'm not sure who's right, just noticed the difference.  If you use their method, I think Kent is distinctly more valuable than Abreu in 2008.

by dan310 on Feb 16, 2008 1:29 PM PST reply actions  

slightly off subject
It is an interesting comparison to make, but I think some additional things beyond the numbers would need to be taken into account. Like, offensively Kent is one of the most reliable hitters we've had over the last few years. He's a professional hitter, we know what he's going to give us a good at bat, every time. The fact that a pitcher has to take him into account. People question his clubhouse presence, but grouchy or not, he's a reliable veteran presence in a year where question marks abound. These things may not be reflected in the numbers. We don't know about Abreu. I like his potential, but nothing he did last year (including going down with injury for the last half of the year) suggests he's beating down the door. In a case like this it seems that should be taken into account also. Not to put too heavy of a weight on known quantity, but to remove our cleanup hitter of the last few years from the lineup to improve on defense doesn't seem like a realistic move any manager would make. Especially when we have more clearcut cases (Ethier over Pierre, to a lesser extent LaRoche over Nomar for examples) where we can improve both offensively and defensively before taking away our second biggest (established) home run threat on a low home run hitting team. The question comes into play if Kent shows up like Nomar did last year, or is nagged by injuries. Until then, the guy delivered the most RBI and HR on our team last year.

by oregon dodger on Feb 20, 2008 2:26 PM PST reply actions  

Re:
Yup, he's been an offensive force. Easily the best hitting 2nd baseman from age 35 on in history. If he comes close to the Pecota projections, even I would not argue that he is replaceable even if his defense drives me to distraction.
My argument, not to be confused with Andrew's is based on the fact I expect him to lose alot of playing time to the normal injuries that plague older 2nd baseman and then when he tries to play with these injuries his numbers will suffer. Kent however is not normal and may not suffer any of these problems.

by Phil Gurnee on Feb 20, 2008 11:13 PM PST up reply actions  

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2012 Dodgers Payroll

Italics denote estimates
Pos No Player 2012 Salary
C 17 Ellis $500,000 team control
1B 7 Loney $6,375,000
2B 14 Ellis $2,500,000
3B 5 Uribe $8,000,000
SS 9 Gordon $485,000 team control
LF 21 Rivera $4,000,000
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RF 16 Ethier $10,950,000

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OF 10 Gwynn $850,000
2B/3B 3 Kennedy $800,000
C 18 Treanor $850,000
IF 12 Sellers $485,000 team control

SP 22 Kershaw $6,000,000
SP 58 Billingsley $9,000,000
SP 29 Lilly $12,000,000
SP 35 Capuano $3,000,000
SP 44
Harang $3,000,000

CL 54 Guerra $485,000 team control
RHP 74
Jansen $500,000 team control
RHP 55 Guerrier $4,750,000
RHP 60 Coffey $1,000,000
RHP 66 MacDougal $650,000
LHP 57 Elbert $485,000 team control
RHP 36
Hawksworth $500,000 team control

TJ 41 De La Rosa $485,000 team control



Manny $8,087,432 deferred


Andruw $3,375,000 deferred


Pierre $3,050,000 deferred
Furcal $3,000,000 deferred
Kuroda $2,000,000 deferred
Garland $1,500,000 option buyout
Blake $1,250,000 option buyout

Totals
$112,162,432

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Players on 40-man roster used as roster
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Current 40-man roster count: 40
(not including Belisario)

2012 Non-Roster Invitees

No Player Age*
63 Jose Ascanio rhp
27
61 Alberto Castillo lhp
36
56 Matt Chico lhp
29
33 John Grabow lhp
33
59 Angel Guzman rhp
30
47 Wil Ledezma lhp
31
72 Shane Lindsay rhp
27
62 Fernando Nieve rhp 29
73 Scott Rice lhp 30
70 Will Savage rhp
27
71 Ryan Tucker rhp
25
28 Jamey Wright rhp
37

30 Josh Bard c 34
82 Griff Erickson c 24
81 Matt Wallachc 26
67 Jeff Baisley 3b/1b 29
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37 Josh Fields 3b 29
64 Lance Zawadzki if 27
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