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Nothing Wrong With Being Compared To Jeremy Giambi

When I was trying to see how well Baseball Prospectus had done in previous year's top prospect lists, I came across this passage from 1999.

It's hard to not find fault with Baseball America, who somehow deemed 63 other minor leaguers to be more valuable than Jeremy Giambi. That's like calling Ted Williams the 64th-best player of all time. Yes, Giambi is slow and has no defensive value. But to suggest that one of the two or three best hitting prospects in the minor leagues is only the 64th-best overall prospect is to suggest that offense represents an absurdly small fraction of a position player's overall contribution.

Yes, Baseball Prospectus compared Jeremy Giambi to Ted Williams. At this point I decided that, no, their previous lists weren't very good.

Fortunately Baseball Prospectus hired Kevin Goldstein a couple years ago so we won't be seeing any predictions as bad as this any time soon. However, as I looked at Giambi's minor league career, I realized that I'd be saying the exact same thing, well, minus the Ted Williams part. I assumed that Giambi had monster numbers in the minors, but probably struck out a ton which BP didn't really care about back in the day. When you look at the actual stats though, this isn't true. In his minor league career, Giambi had 1217 at bats, hit .321/.435/.539 struck out 236 times at walked 244. His numbers when he actually was still a prospect are even better. If I didn't know who this was, I would almost guarantee that this person would have a long and productive big league career. Hitting for average, power, walking more times than you strikeout while getting punched out once every six at bats? The term Holy Grail comes to mind. If Jeremy Giambi can be a failure with Holy Grail type numbers, does that mean that my boy Andy LaRoche isn't as much of a lock to be a successful big leaguer as I thought?

The similarities are there. LaRoche has hit .294/.374/.524 in his minor league career with 203 walks and 274 strikeouts in 1655 at bats. A better strikeout rate, but less walks and average (LaRoche's patience hadn't become amazing until 2006), while playing in good hitters parks for the most part. I've been trumpeting LaRoche's potential for two years solid now, saying he's almost a can't miss, but does Giambi mean that he can? It puts a little doubt in my mind, but LaRoche does have several advantages over Giambi, all of them having to do with the fact he can do things other than swinging a bat. LaRoche isn't slow as molasses, LaRoche can catch the ball, and LaRoche probably would slide on a close play at the plate instead of securing the legacy of Derek Jeter. Having other tools would encourage people to give him a chance, even if his hitting isn't tremendous.

Another question is Jeremy Giambi really a failed player? His last big league season was at age 28 and he finished his career with a 111 OPS+. I like to occasionally bring up how rare it is that Hee-Seop Choi was finished so early in his career with a 106 OPS+, but Giambi was still in his prime and had hit .259/.414/.505 in his age 27 season, a 147 OPS+. Now, there were some other factors in his demise (read: actually being dumb enough to admit he took steroids to get better at baseball), but for the most part, Giambi was a pretty productive hitter that just didn't have any other tools to support him. Heck, there'd probably be a free Jeremy Giambi campaign going on if he was on the Dodgers at some point.

So, if Andy LaRoche becomes Jeremy Giambi with some decent tools without steroid accusations, it probably wouldn't be that bad. All I've been claiming in my campaign for LaRoche is that he's a near lock to be a solid hitter in the bigs. It's hard to argue that Jeremy Giambi was anything but that.

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Re:
Young Giambi was not the most athletic player while LaRoche was drafted as a SS and moved to 3rd base. I bet on Young Giambi while he was with KC in a few of my roto leagues.
The Dodgers signed him for 2004 and at the time I thought it was a solid move. He was only one year removed from an excellent year in 2003. In retro was the 2003 season juice inspired? He sure limped off the stage at an early age.
I don't hate players but man I was a huge A's fan the year he didn't slide. I hated him for a while. How would baseball be different if had been safe and the A's won the playoffs and world series. What would Joe Morgan have to say?

LaRoche is going to be okay. More then okay, LaRoche is going to be the best 3rd baseman in the NL West.

by Phil Gurnee on Feb 5, 2008 12:50 PM PST reply actions  

LaRoche
"LaRoche is going to be the best 3rd baseman in the NL West."

Yea, but only because Pedro Feliz is in the NL East now.  Because he was really super awesome.  Now, all the Giants need to do is sign Corey Patterson to play 3B, and they'll be set!

by Rich @ True Blue LA on Feb 5, 2008 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

LaRoche
I think LaRoche will last longer than Giambi simply because he's at the very least competent, if not good, with the glove. Plus he plays in the NL. It's no guarantee that he'll be the best 3B in the NL West though, not with Garrett Atkins/Ian Stewart, Mark Reynolds, and Chase Headley around and the potential emergence of Angel Villalona

by baetown415 on Feb 5, 2008 11:06 PM PST reply actions  

Re
Please don't mention Ian Stewart in the same sentence as Andy LaRoche. Pet peeve of mine.

by Andrew on Feb 6, 2008 8:35 AM PST up reply actions  

RE:
Villalona is a long way off and it is very doubtful he will remain a 3rd baseman. It LaRoche isn't better then Atkins, Headley, and Reynolds over the next 5 years I'll be disappointed. It seems that with Kouz not even in the conversation that we both agree the he will not be 3rd baseman for long.

by Phil Gurnee on Feb 6, 2008 9:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Re:
LaRoche should be better than all those guys, with the exception of Atkins.  Ian Stewart's really only had one good minor league season, and according to Kevin Goldstein, Ian Stewart doesn't look anything more than an average 3B at this point.  I once read that a good comp for Mark Reynolds is Tony Batista, although I'd assume that Mark Reynolds will probably walk more than Batista did.  It seems Reynolds might be a guy prone to extremely high strikeout totals, which will always keep his average and thus his OPS down.  Of course, that's not a really problem when you walk like Adam Dunn, but it is for the season you hit .250 and therefore have an OBP of .310-.320.

by Rich @ True Blue LA on Feb 6, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions  

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2012 Dodgers Payroll

Italics denote estimates
Pos No Player 2012 Salary
C 17 Ellis $500,000 team control
1B 7 Loney $6,375,000
2B 14 Ellis $2,500,000
3B 5 Uribe $8,000,000
SS 9 Gordon $485,000 team control
LF 21 Rivera $4,000,000
CF 27 Kemp $10,000,000
RF 16 Ethier $10,950,000

IF/OF 6 Hairston $2,250,000
OF 10 Gwynn $850,000
2B/3B 3 Kennedy $800,000
C 18 Treanor $850,000
IF 12 Sellers $485,000 team control

SP 22 Kershaw $6,000,000
SP 58 Billingsley $9,000,000
SP 29 Lilly $12,000,000
SP 35 Capuano $3,000,000
SP 44
Harang $3,000,000

CL 54 Guerra $485,000 team control
RHP 74
Jansen $500,000 team control
RHP 55 Guerrier $4,750,000
RHP 60 Coffey $1,000,000
RHP 66 MacDougal $650,000
LHP 57 Elbert $485,000 team control
RHP 36
Hawksworth $500,000 team control

TJ 41 De La Rosa $485,000 team control



Manny $8,087,432 deferred


Andruw $3,375,000 deferred


Pierre $3,050,000 deferred
Furcal $3,000,000 deferred
Kuroda $2,000,000 deferred
Garland $1,500,000 option buyout
Blake $1,250,000 option buyout

Totals
$112,162,432

For more detailed information, click here.

Players on 40-man roster used as roster
fillers until moves are made.

Current 40-man roster count: 40
(not including Belisario)

2012 Non-Roster Invitees

No Player Age*
63 Jose Ascanio rhp
27
61 Alberto Castillo lhp
36
56 Matt Chico lhp
29
33 John Grabow lhp
33
59 Angel Guzman rhp
30
47 Wil Ledezma lhp
31
72 Shane Lindsay rhp
27
62 Fernando Nieve rhp 29
73 Scott Rice lhp 30
70 Will Savage rhp
27
71 Ryan Tucker rhp
25
28 Jamey Wright rhp
37

30 Josh Bard c 34
82 Griff Erickson c 24
81 Matt Wallachc 26
67 Jeff Baisley 3b/1b 29
65 Luis Cruz ss/2b 28
37 Josh Fields 3b 29
64 Lance Zawadzki if 27
56 Cory Sullivan of 32

*Age on June 30, 2012

NRI count: 20

For more info, click here.


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