True Blue LA: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Myers, Phillies Top Dodgers Bar-right-arrows



We Got Manny

Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Dodgers have received Manny Ramirez in a three team swap that will have the Dodgers sending Andy LaRoche and A ball pitcher Bryan Morris to the Pirates. The Dodgers have canceled Ramirez's options for the next two years.

I'm gonna have to think about how I feel about this.

The one thing I do know: we have one of the worst defenses in the league now. Time to sell Lowe in your fantasy leagues.

Update>>Boston will pay Manny's salary.

Initial thought 2>>We'd better win it all this year. We now have five positions that need to be filled in 2009 and nowhere near enough money to buy our way out of them. Compare our 2008 team to the 2009 team.

CF Kemp
RF Ethier
LF Manny
2B Kent
C Martin
3B Blake
1B Loney
SS Someone

SP Billingsley
SP Lowe
SP Kuroda
SP Kershaw
SP Johnson

Pretty fearsome, right? Well here's what we have going into next year.

RF Kemp
LF Ethier
C Martin
1B Loney
CF Jones
3B DeWitt?
SS Hu?
2B DeJesus?

SP Billingsley
SP Penny
SP Kuroda
SP Kershaw
SP McDonald?

We've probably got around 30 million to fix some of those holes, so we can bring in probably two truly useful players. That leaves at least three giant holes in the lineup. If we don't make the playoffs this year, this might be franchise ruining.

I probably shouldn't be this focused on the negative, we did just get a huge jumpstart to our offense.

Thought three>>This basically turns the race with the Diamondbacks into a coin flip. Coming into this game,  the Diamondbacks were two games better according to third order win percentage. If we replace Juan Pierre with Manny, we're turning a guy with a 2.2 VORP and was three plays above average on defense into a guy who had a 37 VORP and was -15 plays on defense.

Earlier this year, I figured out that a play made by a middle infielder was worth .789 runs, but this was possible because I could assume any play a a middle infielder missed would turn into a single. This isn't as easy for an outfielder, any play missed could turn into any number of bases. I can't figure out the exact number, so I'm going to have to estimate with no real math behind it. For now, I'm going to assume that a missed play by an outfielder is worth .8 to one run. This means that if Pierre and Manny continue to produce at their current rates, Pierre would be worth somewhere from 2.3 to 2.6 runs, and Manny will be worth somewhere between 11 and 12 runs. So the difference between Manny and Pierre is in the neighborhood of eight or nine runs, or almost a wins worth.

Once you account for Manny's win, the Dodgers are one game behind the Diamondbacks from a true talent level stand point. Prior to this one game upgrade, the Diamondbacks had a 60% shot at winning the division, versus 35% for the Dodgers. I sadly can't do the exact math, but if this switches it to a 45/50 split for the playoffs, we gave up LaRoche and Morris for an additional 23% or so shot at making the playoffs. Was that worth giving us an additional hole to fill this offseason? Honestly I don't know. I know that seeing my favorite player get traded for the fourth time in my life sucks a lot, so from my perspective I don't like the move all that much.

Really, this trade's going to be judged in hindsight. If the Dodgers barely squeak into the playoffs, it will be seen as a great move. If we miss them, it's going to really hurt us next year.

Poll
LaRoche And Morris For Manny?
  • Yay!
  • Boo!
  • Undecided!

  297 votes | Results

0 recs | Comment 36 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

First thought

I’m okay with this but confused. Ned must have another deal to follow.

On the surface this looks like a good deal for all three teams. We couldn’t get Bay ourselves because Boston kicked in 7 Million and two players to the Pirates so that was not an option.

Morris was coming off of TJ surgery and while he may have nasty stuff we gave up a pitcher low A who was not exactly.

We all know LaRoche has talent and is going to become a fixture for Pittsburgh but we are talking Manny Ramirez and unlike the Angels we are in a fight to get into the playoffs. How the outfield shakes will determine how much this helps us but if Torre chooses
Manny/Kemp/Ethier we have a kickass outfield
Manny/Jones/Kemp still good, just not kickass
Pierre/Jones/Manny bad bad bad
Pierre/Kemp/Manny okay- but Manny in RF!!!

by ToyCannon on Jul 31, 2008 1:53 PM PDT   0 recs

Our team still sucks, and we should’ve punted the season rather than fielding a weak playoff team that’s going to get eliminated in the first round.

by Tango and Cash on Jul 31, 2008 1:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re;

That is BS, no one in the NL is a powerhouse. We have as good a shot as anyone with our rotation to make it through the playoffs.

by ToyCannon on Jul 31, 2008 2:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

We still don’t have a shortstop, our starting pitching outside of Billingsley is solid but not great, and now whatever gains Manny might give us in the OF will be cancelled out by the fact that Torre will be putting Ethier and/or Kemp on the bench, since, for some reason, we have 5 starting outfielders. And I’m pretty sure the Mets, Brewers, and Cubs, could all dominate us in a short series. This is like 2003 all over again. Get into the playoffs, then get eliminated by a team that’s better than you.

by Tango and Cash on Jul 31, 2008 2:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Once you make the playoffs, it’s a crapshoot, and we can generate the revenue it’s going to take to rebuild this team next year.

If we don’t make the playoffs, this could be potentially franchise ruining I have to say.

Co-Author Of The Fourth Most Popular NL West Based Blog On SBN

by Andrew on Jul 31, 2008 2:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

now that we have a big bat, we don’t really need a shortstop now. with manny, our 1-7 lineup is solid. everyone is batting .250 and over. excluding kent, everyone is .270 and over. plenty of teams get by with a subpar #8 hitter or SS. look at the red sox. they have a subpar SS, but they were able to win cause the rest of their lineup is solid.

by CSon on Jul 31, 2008 2:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

We so

disagree. You can’t always play for the future, at some point you have to actually try to win the whole thing. This is not Laroche for Wilson, this is Laroche for one of the best hitters in baseball right now in an area we needed help in.

Now Torre just needs to do the right thing and on Oct 1st we see this lineup:
Furcal(SS)
Ethier(RF)
Kemp (CF)
Manny (LF)
Loney(1st)
Blake(3rd)
Martin©
Kent(2nd)
Billingsley

by ToyCannon on Jul 31, 2008 2:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That

was for Tango, not you CSon.

by ToyCannon on Jul 31, 2008 2:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

True, but if Neddy and Joe hadn’t royally screwed up this team this season, we could’ve been a major contender next year and beyond. And now here’s the important part, as you mentioned: “Torre needs to do the right thing.” Does anyone here expect him to? Here’s a manager who has played veteran favorites and gone out of his way to often play the worst players available. If we had Manny/Ethier/Kemp, well that’s a good OF, but who honestly thinks it’s going to be those 3? If Manny pushes Ethier or God forbid Kemp out of the lineup (the latter of which I am highly doubtful), how much do we really gain from Manny? And I don’t trust Joe Torre to make the right call on this one. He’s proven time after time that he’s unable of making the right choices.

by Tango and Cash on Jul 31, 2008 3:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ecstatic to have manny. i just hope LaRoche doesn’t turn into next year’s evan longoria

by CSon on Jul 31, 2008 1:55 PM PDT   0 recs

i have to say though…i’m so glad we finally have a true cleanup hitter. no more kent batting cleanup. thank God

by CSon on Jul 31, 2008 1:57 PM PDT   0 recs

I have a feeling Torre’s going to bat Manny third.

by the big grabowski on Jul 31, 2008 2:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Manny: 37 VORP, -15 in the field. Very naive assumption of a play missed by an outfielder is ~one run we have a 24 run player. So far. If this means no more Jones and Pierre, great, if it means no Ethier or Kemp, we’re in trouble.

Co-Author Of The Fourth Most Popular NL West Based Blog On SBN

by Andrew on Jul 31, 2008 1:58 PM PDT   0 recs

Using similar (possibly bad) math Kemp is at 25 runs and Ethier’s D somehow collapsed dropping him to 4 runs.

Co-Author Of The Fourth Most Popular NL West Based Blog On SBN

by Andrew on Jul 31, 2008 2:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The Dodgers cancelled his options? Is that for sure?

by the big grabowski on Jul 31, 2008 2:17 PM PDT   0 recs

Yeah, that seems pretty set in stone.

Co-Author Of The Fourth Most Popular NL West Based Blog On SBN

by Andrew on Jul 31, 2008 2:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Now we have a chance at the Division.

by GoAmry777 on Jul 31, 2008 2:30 PM PDT   0 recs

If we don't win the division

This trade will have been a complete and utter failure. I’ll reserve judgment though.

by SuperBruinMan on Jul 31, 2008 2:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

perfect timing…for the DBack series. i’m too excited to work right now. i won’t worry about losing LaRoche till next year, if he actually blossoms into the player everyone thinks he can be

by CSon on Jul 31, 2008 2:34 PM PDT   0 recs

I'm too excited to work now, as well!!!!

I can’t wait to see the rest of the season now!!! Too bad I’m gonna have to stop by the dry cleaners on my way home from work today, because to be frank, the excitement of it all got the best of me today…

Paul Lo Duca is MLB's Pablo Escobar..

by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 31, 2008 2:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Also

from reports we have the right to offer him arbitration and when he turns us down we will certainly get the draft picks. Now we need Manny to hit and then get signed by a team who is not protected from giving up their number one pick so we don’t slide back to the supplemental round.

Or he could misbehave and make this a nightmare.

by ToyCannon on Jul 31, 2008 2:37 PM PDT   0 recs

If Jones can fix his hitting

Next year’s lineup might not be all that bad.

by SuperBruinMan on Jul 31, 2008 3:32 PM PDT   0 recs

ugh

I hate this deal manny makes.no sense on this team if I go to a game this weekend Manny is getting booed.

The poster formerly known as Matt.

by bluemax on Jul 31, 2008 3:33 PM PDT   0 recs

At the very least, the Giants managed to do nothing. That’s pretty awesome.

Co-Author Of The Fourth Most Popular NL West Based Blog On SBN

by Andrew on Jul 31, 2008 4:35 PM PDT   0 recs

The big question

What does this mean for the TBLA motto?

by Andrew Shimmin on Jul 31, 2008 4:41 PM PDT   0 recs

Since LaRoche didn’t get traded for Jack Wilson, the original plan of “fuck you, Ned” is out the window.

Co-Author Of The Fourth Most Popular NL West Based Blog On SBN

by Andrew on Jul 31, 2008 4:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Good.

I don’t think BB-ref would have permitted that.

by Andrew Shimmin on Jul 31, 2008 4:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What about “True Blue LA: A Place To Talk About Devon White and The Dodgers.”

by Tango and Cash on Jul 31, 2008 6:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How about...

Jeff Kent + Manny Ramirez = One Helluva Ice Cream Social Party!

Paul Lo Duca is MLB's Pablo Escobar..

by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 31, 2008 4:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

In regards to the holes for next year, if we can sign Sabathia, our rotation would be:

Sabathia
Penny
Bills
Kuroda
Kershaw

that’s a better rotation than this year. then if we get brian roberts for 2B, we can put dewitt at 3rd. or if we re-sign blake, we can put dewitt at 2nd. that leaves a hole at SS obviously. hopefully Hu can step up next year or we can resign furcal at a discount or we can sign a decent free agent that’s not injury prone. then our lineup would be:

Pierre – LF
Kemp – CF
Martin – C
Loney – 1B
Roberts/Blake – 2B/3B
Ethier – RF
Dewitt – 3B/2B
Hu/Furcal/free agent – SS

that’s not as good as having Manny, but it’s still a pretty good lineup.

by CSon on Jul 31, 2008 6:36 PM PDT   0 recs

add to that having nomar, abreu, young, and jones coming off the bench?

by CSon on Jul 31, 2008 6:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Those are some gigantic ‘ifs’.

by Tango and Cash on Jul 31, 2008 8:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

well we better do something with all the money we’re gonna have from blake, furcal, kent, lowe and schmidt being free agents

by CSon on Jul 31, 2008 8:31 PM PDT   0 recs

my mistake…apparently we still have schidt for one more year. damn it!

by CSon on Jul 31, 2008 8:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

hey andrew…out of curiosity, who were the other 3 (favorite) players that got traded away?

by CSon on Aug 1, 2008 10:45 AM PDT   0 recs

Piazza, Hollandsworth, Karros.

Co-Author Of The Fourth Most Popular NL West Based Blog On SBN

by Andrew on Aug 1, 2008 10:55 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Los Angeles Dodgers.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

100_0207_2_small
The Greatness of Joe Torre
Dsc04697_small
Thoughts Following Game 1 - From a Phillies Fan
Untitled_small
How the Dodgers destroyed the Cubs market
Kheadlock_small
Seat 88
Img_0940_small
BP has a great breakdown
Untitled_small
Joe Torre is Sweet Lou's "Daddy"
La
All You Need To Know; Why Dodgers are Up 2-0
Small
Elimination watch, 9/24/08
Small
Elimination watch, 9/18/08
Small
Elimination watch, 9/15/08

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

MLB Postseason Coverage

AZ Snakepit
Playoffs 2008: ALCS - Red Sox/Rays
Camden Chat
Unbiased Postseason Recap: Day Eight
Over the Monster
Matsuzaka shuts down Rays, 2-0
DRaysBay
Recap: Thou Hath Wilted in The Pressure like Flower.
The Good Phight
NLCS Game Two Recap: Red Friday

More SB Nation Postseason Coverage


Site Meter