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Who to extend... Looking at the future

[Editor's Note: This is such a good post written by bablue, it deserved to be on the front page]

There's been lots of talk lately about the Dodgers extending their young players. So I would like to get people's opinion on who we should actually try to extend and what they will get, because this will be a big factor in our payroll over the next few years. However, we may actually be able to wait on some of our players for another year or two before we start extension talks. Anyway, lets take a look into our future.

Star-divide

INFIELD-

Russell Martin- I think this is the most obvious one, and also the most important. He's an all-star caliber catcher who's just starting to get really expensive. Going year to year will end up being much more costly, and he may wait to test free agency if we wait too long to try and offer an extension. Brian McCann got a 6/26.8M extension with a 12M club option for 2013 after the '05 season but he had one less year of service time. If you take the first year out it becomes a 5/26.3 extension, which hopefully will be near what Martin gets although McCann probably would have been just short of Super Two eligible after '06, so Maritn's would have be adjusted upward a few million. Accounting for inflation I would predict Martin gets a 5 year extension worth between 32-35M with an option for a 6th year at 12-15M. This would keep Martin in LA for a long time. 

James Loney- He is an interesting case because although he is arbitration eligible next year and widely considered a good young player, I don't think he deserves an extension yet. He was only worth 0.6 wins last year (even playing a full year) according to Fangraphs, or 2.8M fair market value, and he clearly won't agree to an AAV that low. But in 2007 he was worth 2.1 wins, despite 250 less at bats. I think we should wait on Loney and hope he can produce more like 2007, including show more of his gold glove potential, otherwise we don't want a mediocre first baseman taking up a significant chunk of the payroll. Give him another year or even two, and then maybe we will have a better idea of what he's worth. If he can't improve, then maybe Andrew Lambo will be brought up as our future first baseman.

Blake Dewitt- Not too much to say about him, he's simply too far away from his potential to worry about an extension. We still have him under team control for six more years, and have no idea how he'll grow as he ages. He could end up being a great third baseman or he might never hit enough to stay a starter as he gets more expensive. 

SS- We just signed Furcal so no starter needed here. There is a lot of doubt about Hu's future and Dejesus has yet to reach the majors, so we are set here for the next few years.

3b- Casey Blake just signed on for 3 years, but probably won't be a starter for all of them. Eventually Dewitt will likely move here as Dejesus gets phased into the lineup, and then we'll see about his future.

 

OUTFIELD-

LF- No takers to extend Pierre? Didn't think so. Hopefully he will be traded sometime in the next couple years but otherwise he'll be part of the outfield. Delwyn Young is a nice role player but its doubtful he'll ever be a starter with us. And then there's that Manny guy... Hopefully this spot will be his for a few more years. Maybe we will try to extend him for another year or so at the end of his contract if he's still producing, or maybe he'll be here for three years and ride off into the sunset. By the end of 2010 Andrew Lambo should be starting to fit himself into this picture, but if Manny is here he'll have to be a backup or compete with Loney for a while.

Matt Kemp- He should (key word) be our center fielder going forward, assuming he doesn't grow out of the position. If Manny signs with us we won't have much of a choice. He is definitely someone we want to lock up but he might not be ready for an extension yet. He probably (at least if I was his agent) wants to wait a bit longer to showcase his massive potential, as his power numbers could rise and combined with his blazing speed make him an expensive commodity. I would try to extend him as soon as possible but realistically we may have to wait at least a year, when Kemp is first eligible for arbitration, until we can sign him long-term. Before the '08 season Curtis Granderson signed a 5/30.25 extension with a 2014 club option for 13M, and Kemp could be looking at similar money if he breaks out as Granderson did. Even still, this would be a huge bargain as Kemp was worth 2.8 wins, or 12.4M last year alone.

Andre Ethier- He should be our right fielder in the future provided he quits getting jerked around by Torre. He is a potential bargain because he doesn't put up huge stats for an outfielder, despite being very good. He was worth 3.6 wins, or 16.4M last year, but even if he can't keep that up, he is often overlooked and consequently should sign for much cheaper than he's worth. He can still wait a year because he is cheap, and then maybe sign for something similar to Brad Hawpe's 3/17.4 extension with the Rockies with a 10M option signed a year ago. He could do this despite being worth triple the value of Hawpe over the last three years because Coors inflates Hawpe's numbers and because of his terrible defense. If we could sign Ethier for 3/18 with an option after next season, we will have gotten a steal.

ROTATION-

Chad Billingsley- The ace of our rotation, only 24 years old, Billz is an awesome asset to have. That said, we should probably wait on trying to extend him. Why wait? Because of the Verducci Effect, a theory which states that pitchers 25 or under who increase their innings by more than 30 from one year to the next are due for serious regression and health issues. Going from 147 to 200.2 innings last year (not including the playoffs), and then breaking his leg in the offseason, there is a lot to worry about Chad right now. Because of this, I would wait until after next year to try to extend him. If he still pitches great, you know you have a true ace and can lock him up to a Kazmir/Hamels type extension of recent offseasons. If he is ineffective or hurt, you either can extend him at a discounted rate or get him for another year at cheap prics where you can observe him. Billz should be a big part of our future, but I think we need to wait another year to lock him up.

Hiroki Kuroda- He still has two more years left on his current contract, and will then be 36, so no need to extend him. After his deal is up, we could try to re-sign him if he is still effective.

Clayton Kershaw- Hopefully will become co-ace with Billingsley, Kershaw's future is as bright as anyone's. However, he's still just 20 years old and the flameout rate is simply too high for pitches of his age. We still have six more years of team control so there's no need to rush to sign him long-term. I would wait at least two, maybe three years, and if he has been healthy and good, would look to lock him up for along time. By then, who knows what could happen though.

James McDonald, Ramon Trancoso, Scott Elbert- These guys are all possible cornerstones of our rotation in the future. But for now they are all two young and inexperienced to even think about extending. It is likely we will sign a veteran starting pitcher to fill one of these last two spots so depending on who it is they may be keeping one of these guys in the bullpen for a couple years. It is also likely at least one of them will end up a full-time reliever, as there are only so many starting spots to go around. Hopefully in a few years guys like Ethan Martin and Chris Withrow will be putting pressure on these guys.

BULLPEN-

Jonathon Broxton- The new full-time closer, Ox is one of the best relievers in baseball. Because of this I feel it is important to lock him up now, while he is still treated like a setup man. Once he gets the "Proven Closer" label, his salary will go up dramatically. I think it would be unprecedented to lock a young reliever up so early and for so long, but we would probably be able to sign him for only 3-4 million a year in AAV. If we wait even a year or two, you can expect that to double. Worst case scenario is we go year to year and end up paying him a 4/46 type deal like Francisco Cordero got from the Reds once he reaches free agency, or we just let him go.

Hong-Chi Kuo- Just like Broxton, Kuo was one of the best relievers in baseball last year. Unlike Broxton, Kuo can never stay healthy. Because of this, I think it would be ideal to go year to year with him for at least the next couple years to make sure you don't end up paying a considerable amount for a guy who can't pitch anymore.

Corey Wade, Eric Stults, et al-  These guys are nice to have, but not key pieces to any team. Barring Wade's luck continuing, these type guys are decent players who play for cheap and there is no reason to worry about signing them long-term. 

 

So looking at it, we really should only try hard to extend Martin and Broxton long term this year, with Kemp included if possible. In 2010 and 2011, we should really get the ball rolling on extending many of our players if we we want to be able to afford most of them cheaply. But keep your heads high Dodger fans, the future is bright. As this talent continues to develop and new talent filters in the ranks we should be able to field a competitive team for years to come.

Comment 6 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Very nice summary

I agree with you, and I would add extending Billingsley as soon as possible.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 18, 2009 5:11 PM PST reply actions  

Cost-benefit thing

You extend him now, you probably get him at a lower rate.

If you wait and he does have another year like 2008, then he’s gonna want a lot more.

Depends how much gamble you have in you, I guess.

by Chad Moriyama on Jan 23, 2009 2:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Very cool

Thanks Toy and Eric, for putting this on the front page!!

In other news (caveat: Rosenthal) we apparently have the “inside track” on signing Randy Wolf. The article says it would likely be a 1 or 2 year deal, and assuming its somewhat cheap, I don’t have a problem with signing Wolf. But I do wish we would pursue high impact type guys instead of more depth guys like Wolf. Take the salaries of Wolf, Mota, and Ausmus combined, and we’re probably near equal to the salary for Pettitte or Sheets.

Link to article: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9120894/Sources:-Wolf-may-be-headed-back-to-Dodgers?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

by Brendan Scolari on Jan 22, 2009 6:10 PM PST reply actions  

Very Cool

Sheets a possible high impact guy (if healthy), definitely yes.

But, Pettit? Look at his performance last year—and particularly the second half—
he went totally in the toilet, and he’s just getting older and probably even less effective. Wolf, if he’s healthy, would be a better choice and for more than just one season like Pettit. Pettit, at this point in his career, is 90% name and past glories. You can’t be paying good money for that.

by nevernine on Jan 24, 2009 5:57 PM PST reply actions  

I think you are 100% wrong on Pettitte vs. Wolf

First of all, it’s Andy Pettitte. Four t’s and an e.

Second of all, you keep bringing up how Pettitte imploded in the 2nd half and that he’s “90% name.”

Randy Wolf pitched amazingly well after his trade to the Astros, and that is the basis for interest in him, rather than the past 4 years of injury-riddled, inconsistent pitching. But let’s forget that for a moment. Let’s look at the final 11 starts of the year for both men, Wolf and Pettitte.

Wolf / Pettitte
IP – 66.1 / 65.0
BB – 21 / 22
K – 54 / 51
HR – 6 / 5
FIP – 3.71 / 3.63

Pettitte had an amazing amount of bad luck in his starts, as he posted a 6.23 ERA vs. a 3.39 ERA from Wolf. Pettitte simply had an abnormal amount of balls fall for hits in those last 11 starts. Yet, despite pitching almost identically to Wolf, Pettitte’s 2nd half is seen as a crap stretch while Wolf is using that as the money shot for his “I’m back” billboards.

On the season, Pettitte gave up a lower line drive % (19.9) than Wolf (23.6 with SD; 20.6% with Hou).

For the whole season, Pettitte pitched more innings (204 to 190.1), had a lower FIP (3.74 to 4.19), and pitched against tougher competition than Wolf.

Throw in the fact that Pettitte has topped 200 innings in each of the last 4 years while Wolf has averaged only 107 innings over that same period, and Pettitte is the better choice.

Top it off with the fact that Pettitte could likely be had for a shorter deal than Wolf (to not block McDonald, Elbert, Troncoso in the future), and it is a 100% no-brainer lock that Pettitte is a much better choice than Wolf.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 24, 2009 8:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Great post Eric

I would reply too but I have nothing more to say. Pettitte is projected to pitch much better too. Marcels has him at 183 IP with a 3.98 FIP and Wolf at 165 IP with a 4.29 FIP, and the projections don’t even take into consideration that Pettitte pitched in a much tougher division and league, so he would project even better in the NL West.

by Brendan Scolari on Jan 25, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

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2012 Dodgers Payroll

Italics denote estimates
Pos No Player 2012 Salary
C 17 Ellis $500,000 team control
1B 7 Loney $6,375,000
2B 14 Ellis $2,500,000
3B 5 Uribe $8,000,000
SS 9 Gordon $485,000 team control
LF 21 Rivera $4,000,000
CF 27 Kemp $10,000,000
RF 16 Ethier $10,950,000

IF/OF 6 Hairston $2,250,000
OF 10 Gwynn $850,000
2B/3B 3 Kennedy $800,000
C 18 Treanor $850,000
IF 12 Sellers $485,000 team control

SP 22 Kershaw $6,000,000
SP 58 Billingsley $9,000,000
SP 29 Lilly $12,000,000
SP 35 Capuano $3,000,000
SP 44
Harang $3,000,000

CL 54 Guerra $485,000 team control
RHP 74
Jansen $500,000 team control
RHP 55 Guerrier $4,750,000
RHP 60 Coffey $1,000,000
RHP 66 MacDougal $650,000
LHP 57 Elbert $485,000 team control
RHP 36
Hawksworth $500,000 team control

TJ 41 De La Rosa $485,000 team control



Manny $8,087,432 deferred


Andruw $3,375,000 deferred


Pierre $3,050,000 deferred
Furcal $3,000,000 deferred
Kuroda $2,000,000 deferred
Garland $1,500,000 option buyout
Blake $1,250,000 option buyout

Totals
$112,162,432

For more detailed information, click here.

Players on 40-man roster used as roster
fillers until moves are made.

Current 40-man roster count: 40
(not including Belisario)

2012 Non-Roster Invitees

No Player Age*
63 Jose Ascanio rhp
27
61 Alberto Castillo lhp
36
56 Matt Chico lhp
29
33 John Grabow lhp
33
59 Angel Guzman rhp
30
47 Wil Ledezma lhp
31
72 Shane Lindsay rhp
27
62 Fernando Nieve rhp 29
73 Scott Rice lhp 30
70 Will Savage rhp
27
71 Ryan Tucker rhp
25
28 Jamey Wright rhp
37

30 Josh Bard c 34
82 Griff Erickson c 24
81 Matt Wallachc 26
67 Jeff Baisley 3b/1b 29
65 Luis Cruz ss/2b 28
37 Josh Fields 3b 29
64 Lance Zawadzki if 27
56 Cory Sullivan of 32

*Age on June 30, 2012

NRI count: 20

For more info, click here.


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Eric___ned___reporters_2011_trade_deadline_small Eric Stephen

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