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The All-Time LA Dodger Lineup: The Cleanup Hitter

All-Time Lineup#1 | #2 | #3

The first three spots in our batting order are now filled.  Mike Piazza was a runaway winner for the coveted third spot in our all-time batting order.  Thanks to your votes, here is the lineup you've chosen so far:

All-Time LA Dodger Lineup

No Player Pos
30 Maury Wills
SS
19 Jim Gilliam 2B/3B
31 Mike Piazza C
 
 
 
 
 
 

Who will be our cleanup hitter?  Catchers are disqualified, and one of 2B or 3B will be disqualified depending on who we choose to take Jim Gilliam's other position.

Here are the stats for the primary cleanup hitters in Los Angeles Dodger history.  Their overall stats as a Dodger are listed, along with the games started and years they were the primary cleanup hitter for the Dodgers:

Pos Player Years Cleanup GS PA 2B HR Runs RBI Slash Stats OPS+
1B Steve Garvey
74-76,79-81 819 7027 333 211 852 992 .301/.337/.459 122
1B Eric Karros
92-93,95-99 775 6624 302 270 752 976 .268/.325/.457 109
3B/OF Pedro Guerrero
1982-1985 581 4089 169 171 561 585 .309/.381/.512 149
3B Ron Cey
1977-1978 444 6108 223 228 715 842 .264/.359/.445 125
LF Tommy Davis
1962-1964 399 3216 109 86 392 465 .304/.338/.441 117
1B Eddie Murray
1989-1991 382 1983 74 65 231 282 .278/.359/.439 125
2B Jeff Kent
2005,07-08 375 2146 122 75 281 311 .291/.367/.479 118
RF Mike Marshall
1984,86-88 342 3546 155 137 395 484 .271/.325/.449 117
1B/RF Ron Fairly
1965-1966 320 4529 168 90 491 541 .260/.347/.385 111
1B Wes Parker
1970 221 4835 194 64 548 532 .267/.351/.375 111

This shouldn't be a surprise, but the cleanup spot is relatively loaded.  There are a couple of Hall of Famers (Murray and Kent) who spent a brief part of their career as Dodgers.  The top three LA Dodgers in HR and the top two in RBI are also on this list.  Tommy Davis still holds the LA Dodger record for hits and RBI in a season, and probably should have won MVP over teammate Maury Wills in 1962.  General Soreness, Ron Fairly, and cyclist Wes Parker round out the list of top cleanup men, wondering if they will garner any votes.  Pedro Guerrero and Ron Fairly both played a large portion of their games at multiple positions, so they provide potential flexibility for the lineup going forward.

Among these cleanup candidates, Garvey, Karros, Mike Marshall, and Ron Fairly also qualify at the #5 spot in the order, and Cey qualifies at #5 and #6.

Eric's Pick

Eddie Murray is my favorite player ever, so it's hard for me not to pick him.  However, he was only a Dodger for three seasons (1997 never happened!) and if I was going to pick a first baseman I'd go with the longevity of Steve Garvey.  A decade of 122 OPS+ outweighs three seasons of 125 OPS+.  However, I have to go with Pedro Guerrero in the cleanup spot.  For as great as Manny Ramirez was in his two months as a Dodger in 2008, Guerrero was even better in a two-month stretch in 1985:

Player Months G PA HR R RBI Slash Stats OPS+
Guerrero   Jun/Jul 1985 45 190 19 52 39 .391/.489/.833 269
Ramirez   Aug/Sep 2008 53 229 17 36 53 .396/.489/.743 219

Guerrero followed up his white-hot 15-HR June by simply hitting .460/.563/.794 the next month, leading the Dodgers from five games behind the Padres on May 31 to five games up on July 31.  Manny may have had his issues in Boston, such as getting into an altercation with a Red Sox employee, but Guerrero had a similar fiery streak as well.  From Jim Kaplan in a 1984 Sports Illustrated article:

When he learned the L.A. papers had raked him over the coals, Guerrero threatened 118-pound L.A. Herald Examiner reporter Ken (Mouse) Gurnick, saying, "I'm going to kick your [bleeping] ass." Instead, Guerrero kicked up his heels: He went 2 for 4, stole a base and scored twice in Hershiser's win.

In my mind, the four greatest hitters in LA Dodger history are Mike Piazza, Pedro Guerrero, Reggie Smith, and Gary Sheffield.  My lineup has the two of those that played the longest as Dodgers, so I'm a happy man.

Phil's Pick

I'm also taking Pedro as he's my 2nd favorite Dodger behind Piazza so it is only fitting that the lineup have Piazza / Pedro back to back. Back in 1981 he broke the Yankee's back but I never expected him to become the force he became. Most people don't think of Pedro as that great, but he was one of best hitter of the 80's. He also played over 100 games in CF so if we have to get creative we have that option. Of all the clean up options he's the only one with a slug% higher then .500. I was a little surprised that Shaw Green was not on the list, I thought he qualified. He would have been my 2nd pick. Green was the best LHH in LA Dodger History and this team looks a little light without Sheffield, Smith, or Green. I think when we are done we could put together a 2nd team that would be better then the team we are creating.

Who is your pick?

Poll
Who is the best cleanup hitter in LA Dodger history?
1B - Steve Garvey
36 votes
1B - Eric Karros
4 votes
3B/OF - Pedro Guerrero
98 votes
3B - Ron Cey
10 votes
LF - Tommy Davis
4 votes
1B - Eddie Murray
2 votes
2B - Jeff Kent
4 votes
RF - Mike Marshall
0 votes
1B/RF - Ron Fairly
0 votes
1B - Wes Parker
0 votes
Other (write your selectioin in the comments)
1 votes

159 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 23 comments |

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Comments

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ERIC KARROS 4 LIFE!

That’s right! I voted for him. Although I should’ve voted for Guerrero. But you can’t break up Piazza/Karros!

Dodger Fever: Catch it every summer; head to the ER every October.

by Tango and Cash on Jan 28, 2009 9:18 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

If Karros batted cleanup...

…the 5th hitter would never bat with anyone on base since Karros would either hit into a DP or HR. :)

Only half kidding. I liked Karros a lot, but as I became more sabermetrically aware Karros was entering his decline phase so I had to argue with family members that he was less than a great player, which might have well have been calling him Adolf Hitler. So for me, Karros got cot in the crossfire of this debate and it tainted my long-term view of a player I mostly liked.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 28, 2009 9:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

re:

My biggest memories of Karros is him jogging to 1st base on every ground ball and always whining in May after a typical slow start that it is early. It did not shock me to find out that adjusted for Era’s that Wes Parker was just as effective offensively as Eric Karros was. I started out liking him, I ended up hoping the Marlins would take him in the expansion draft when we left him unprotected.

by meercatjohn on Jan 28, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Karros

The one thing I always hated about Karros, even in the early years, was when like you say he would start off slow and always seem to mention in interviews, “my numbers will be there in the end.” He seemed more concerned about his numbers than even Steve Garvey.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 28, 2009 9:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, I still like Karros a lot because he was one of the Dodgers I grew up with, along with Piazza and Mondesi, but I have a much more sober analysis of his performance now than I did then, when I used to think he was only slightly worse than Mike Piazza and should have been named to the All-Star game every year. Looking back on it, we definitely should have attempted to move Karros to keep Konerko, but I assume that contract of his, along with his no-trade clause, made him essentially unmovable.

Dodger Fever: Catch it every summer; head to the ER every October.

by Tango and Cash on Jan 28, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

re:

If you voted for him it was only because you know he has no chance of winning. Otherwise the scorn that would have been heaped upon you could only be removed by a benediction from Andrew.

by meercatjohn on Jan 28, 2009 9:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yea, I figured it’d be Garvey or Guerrero.

Dodger Fever: Catch it every summer; head to the ER every October.

by Tango and Cash on Jan 28, 2009 9:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

One of the greatest Dodger trades ever

sending 25 year old Bruce Ellingsen to the Indians for an 18 year old Rookie league player. That scout should have gotten a life time contract.

by meercatjohn on Jan 28, 2009 10:22 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I've been searching for a while...

…to try to find the scout who “found” Pedro Guerrero. Ralph Avila ran the Dodgers’ Dominican academy for years, so maybe he found “Pete.”

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 28, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The team looks light because you're doing it by batting order

if you did it best by position, it would be a better lineup.

by Brendan Scolari on Jan 28, 2009 11:51 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

re:

Sure but the goal wasn’t to create the best possible Dodger lineup. The goal was to find out who we thought was the best at each of the spots in the lineup. Everyone has done the position thing so we would have just been doing what the Dodgers did when they created their 50th anniversary team. The goal was to do something unique and I think it is working even if the lineup itself doesn’t look like it could beat the 77/78 teams when it is finished.

by meercatjohn on Jan 28, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

re:

My response was to BaBlue not you.

by meercatjohn on Jan 28, 2009 12:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry should have clarified

I was responding to Phil’s statement in the post, “Green was the best LHH in LA Dodger History and this team looks a little light without Sheffield, Smith, or Green. I think when we are done we could put together a 2nd team that would be better then the team we are creating.”

I meant that the team only seems light because we’re doing it by lineup spot, which I don’t have a problem with. But I don’t think the second team would be better.

by Brendan Scolari on Jan 28, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

2nd team could be pretty damn good

2B Lopes
LF Buckner
RF Smith
1B Garvey
CF Mondesi
3B Beltre
C Scioscia
SS Russell

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 28, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oops on 1B

Garvey might win the #5 poll, leaving Murray at 1B. Yay for me!

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 28, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

re:

I think Mondesi wins our poll so you are premature in using him. Also Beltre could easily win the 7th spot in our poll. At least you will get your Bill Russel in the 8th spot.

by meercatjohn on Jan 28, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Beltre can't win the 7th spot...

If Ron Cey is already batting 6th playing 3rd for the 1st team.

Also, after the #5 spot, the only 1B option is Karros batting 6th.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 28, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

We’ll have to see how this team turns out.

by Brendan Scolari on Jan 28, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

re:

Sure it will.

Right now it would be:
Lopes
Mota
Smith

by meercatjohn on Jan 28, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

re:

Don’t care, I’m just picking from the possibilities to show that a 2nd or even 3rd team might eventually be better then the first team. We can use strat-o-matic to have a Dodger World Series.

by meercatjohn on Jan 28, 2009 12:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

OK, OK...

Who’s the smart a$$ that voted 3 times for Jeff Kent? Did you vote for Jeff because you were offered discounted subscription rates for Motorcycle Maddness Magazine? Or maybe the voter was the editor in chief of “Police ’Stache Afficionados Quarterly?” C’mon, time to fess up!

Paul Lo Duca is MLB's Pablo Escobar..

by DodgerBlueBalls on Jan 28, 2009 11:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Pete the Warrior!

Gotta go with Pedro.

by mr_blond on Jan 28, 2009 5:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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