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The All-Time LA Dodger Lineup: The #5 Hitter

All-Time Lineup#1 | #2 | #3 | #4

The lineup is starting to look pretty solid now.  It's hard not to love Piazza & Guerrero back to back.  Here is the lineup thus far:

All-Time LA Dodger Lineup

No Player Pos
30 Maury Wills
SS
19 Jim Gilliam 2B/3B
31 Mike Piazza C
28 Pedro Guerrero 3B/OF
 
 
 
 
 

Who gets to follow Piazza & Guerrero?  Catchers and shortstops are disqualified, and one of 2B or 3B will be disqualified depending on who we choose to take Jim Gilliam's other position.  Pedro Guerrero gives us the flexibility loophole we may need as we get to the bottom of the lineup.  As a Dodger, Guerrero started:

351 games at 3B
192 games in LF
99 games in CF
205 games in RF

Depending on what we need for that #8 spot, Guerrero's flexibility could be a huge plus.  Sadly, we will not stoop so low as to use Guerrero's nine games started at 2B to our nefarious advantage.

Here are the stats for the primary #5 hitters in Los Angeles Dodger history.  Their overall stats as a Dodger are listed, along with the games started and years they were the primary #5 hitter for the Dodgers:

  Overall Stats as LA Dodgers
Pos Player Years #5 Starts PA 2B HR Runs RBI Slash Stats OPS+
3B Ron Cey
75-76,79-82 576 6108 223 228 715 842 .264/.359/.445 125
1B Eric Karros
1992,00-02 775 6624 302 270 752 976 .268/.325/.457 109
CF/RF Raul Mondesi
1995-1999 409 3765 190 163 543 518 .288/.334/.504 122
1B Steve Garvey
1977-1978 819 7027 333 211 852 992 .301/.337/.459 122
RF/LF Willie Crawford
1972-1974 335 3198 125 74 437 335 .268/.351/.413 118
1B/RF Ron Fairly
62-63,1968 305 4529 168 90 491 541 .260/.347/.385 111
RF/1B Mike Marshall
84, 86, 89 289 3546 155 137 395 484 .271/.325/.449 117
2B/3B Jim Lefebvre
1966-1967 252 3417 126 74 313 404 .251/.323/.378 104
RF Frank Howard
1960-1964 219 2321 80 123 293 382 .269/.326/.495 125
LF Dusty Baker
1980 203 4552 179 144 549 586 .281/.343/.437 117

Many of these choices were also active in earlier polls.  Garvey, Fairly, and Marshall were also in the choices for cleanup hitter.  Dusty Baker qualified at the #3 spot, and he also qualifies again at #6.  Ron Cey and Eric Karros also qualify at the 6 spot for those planning ahead.  Here's a look at the newcomers to the poll:

Raul Mondesi signed with the club in 1988, during a three-week period in which the club also brought in Mike Piazza and Pedro Martinez.  Mondesi brought an impact bat, good defense, and a laser arm he dubbed "El Cañon."  He is still the only 30/30 player in Dodger history, having achieved the feat in both 1997 and 1999.

Willie Crawford played in a major league game just nine days after his 18th birthday in 1964, and was the primary 5th-place hitter for the 1974 NL Champions.  His tenure with the Dodgers lasted through 1975, but despite his lifetime 118 OPS+ I get the sense he was viewed as a disappointment by many Dodger fans.

Jim Lefebvre won Rookie of the Year honors in 1965, helping the Dodgers capture the World Series title.  He was a solid-hitting 2B in a time when there simply weren't very many of those.  He is one of six Dodgers in history to HR his age, with 24 HR as a 24-year old in 1966.  It's worth noting that Lefebvre also qualifies at #6 for those with strategic purposes.  He also qualifies at 2B or 3B.

Frank Howard was the first Los Angeles Dodger to win Rookie of the Year, winning the award in 1960.  Hondo was one of the best power hitters in Dodger history, with his .226 isolated power (slugging minus batting average).  He became a star with Washington, but he was part of the package to get Claude Osteen so I'm not complaining.

Eric's Pick

He initial thought was to have Raul Mondesi in the 5 spot since I always loved watching him play.  That lineup for me would have had Steve Garvey batting cleanup though, and I'm happy with my choice of Guerrero, who I liked more than any of them.  Looking at the upcoming 6-7-8 spots, the only other first baseman left is Karros at #6, so I pretty much have to have a 1B here.  This means my pick is between Ron Fairly, Steve Garvey, Mike Marshall (he did start 102 games at 1B as a Dodger) and Eric Karros.  For me, this is a no-brainer.  Steve Garvey is my pick, and it isn't really close.  A side benefit of this pick is that under the uniforms this all-time team will wear, they can now wear these mandatory t-shirts.

Phil's Pick

During his tenue with the Dodgers Mondesi was a complete player. He was Reggie Smith light. He didn't have Smith's power but he had good power. He couldn't play RF like Reggie but he was damn good. He almost had an arm as good as Reggie's. Plus he has the added benefit of having played 150 games in CF.

Frank Howard was my man in Washington and would probably own every Dodger home run record had he not been traded. He hit an additonal 247 home runs after being traded good enough for 5th on the list during that time and only  behind four Hall of Famers. Remember his home park was RFK which proved especially pitcher friendly in the brief time the Nationals called it home so I don't think he got much of a bump leaving Dodger Stadium.

At the end of 1966 the Dodgers had a 24 year old 2nd baseman who had hit more home runs then any other second baseman in baseball the previous two years . Frenchy looked poised for stardom but injuries brought him down and never again would he reach the pinnacle of 1966.

Mike Marshall combined with Pedro to give the Dodgers their only power in the mid 80's but he never did as much as was expected of him. He was okay but we expected so much.  With much fanfare he was a Sept callup in 1981. In his first game he pinch ran for Garvey and then blasted a ball off the top of the right center field fence in his 1st major league at bat. Just like that ball his career turned out to be a double instead of a home run.

Crawford was under appreciated during his time. I know I didn't  think much of him. If he had just a little more power to go with that great plate discipline he might have been more then just an above average player.

I'm going to have to go with Garvey though I was looking forward to trying to sneak  Loney's 1.187 OPS into the lineup out of the eight hole.

I'd vote for Cey who was better then Garvey if we didn't have another chance to vote for him in the six slot and even Beltre in the 7 spot might be the best option for this team.

Wills is getting wasted on this team because it doesn't need his stolen bases to create runs.

Who is your pick?

Poll
Who is the #5 hitter in the all-time LA Dodger lineup
3B - Ron Cey
25 votes
1B - Eric Karros
12 votes
RF/CF - Raul Mondesi
25 votes
1B - Steve Garvey
127 votes
RF/LF - Willie Crawford
0 votes
1B/RF - Ron Fairly
1 votes
RF/1B - Mike Marshall
0 votes
2B/3B - Jim Lefebvre
1 votes
RF - Frank Howard
9 votes
LF - Dusty Baker
4 votes
Other (please use the comments to write-in your choice)
1 votes

205 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 12 comments |

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Comments

Display:

I thought Steve Garvey was the devil?

by Tripon on Jan 28, 2009 7:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

He certainly wasn't the all-American pretty boy...

…that he had the reputation for being, but he was still a damn good player during his Dodger career.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 28, 2009 7:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Please pardon my laziness...

for not looking up the prerequisites on all the players nominated thusfar but, does James Loney have enough tenure with the Dodgers to be nominated at first base as the #5 hitter? I’m really inclined to give him my vote here over Garvey, Fairly or Marshall.

Paul Lo Duca is MLB's Pablo Escobar..

by DodgerBlueBalls on Jan 28, 2009 9:28 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Loney - too soon

The most starts Loney has at any one batting order spot is 96 games batting 5th. The minimum used for #5 was 200, and he’s not even half there.

Even if he did have enough games, there is no plausible or rational argument that could have Loney over Garvey….yet.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 28, 2009 9:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Eric!

I was certain that there was a criteria that Loney had not met yet, and I appreciate your response. I just have a difficult time voting for Garvey as one of the all-time greatest Dodgers, considering I have to see Steve’s retired number in the outfield every time I go to a game at The Litter Box…I mean PETCO Park.

You & Phil have been doing a fantastic job with these discussions, and I look forward to reading each new thread! Here’s to hoping we can have this debate again in a couple years, and that Loney, Martin & Ethier will have earned enough merit to be considered along side all these Dodger greats!

Paul Lo Duca is MLB's Pablo Escobar..

by DodgerBlueBalls on Jan 28, 2009 9:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!

Yeah, how great would it be in 5 years if the current Dodgers can hold their own with this group?

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 28, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mondesi is a part of my Dodgers

I can remember seeing Modesi and his cannon out in right field hitting after Piazza and Karros. He had speed and power. I’m sure Steve Garvey is probably the smarter pick, although Ron Cey is the better player, but I’m going with my heart on this one.

by mr_blond on Jan 28, 2009 9:55 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Mondesi is a worthy pick

I wrestled with it myself. That’s kind of the beauty and fun of these polls! :)

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 28, 2009 10:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I went with Mondesi for the positional advantage he can give at CF for the magic team.

Dodger Fever: Catch it every summer; head to the ER every October.

by Tango and Cash on Jan 29, 2009 9:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cey

is clearly better than Garvey. It’s not really that close. otoh, the first two picks were in the “clearly wrong” category as well.

by Paul Scott on Jan 29, 2009 10:22 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

re:

Cey will get the sixth spot and I’d rather have Garvey/Cey then Cey/Karros which is what we would have been forced to do. Over 300 voters wanted Wills so they get him. He was not either of our choices but this is a communal effort and we are but guides.

by meercatjohn on Jan 29, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If we focused on positions rather than lineup order, this lineup would look much differently..

Dodger Fever: Catch it every summer; head to the ER every October.

by Tango and Cash on Jan 29, 2009 11:55 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

re:

Yes, but that has been done. Would it look any different then the the starting lineup for the 50th Anniversary team.?

Actually I can’t understand how Rick Monday or Duke Snider are on that list since we are talking LA Dodger baseball. Rick Monday??? Come on just seeing him on that list means we have to our own.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 29, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, I wasn’t saying that we should do it. I think this is a novel way to create an all-time fantasy team because we’re going to leave out players that might not be left out otherwise. I was just opining based on what I had been reading.

Dodger Fever: Catch it every summer; head to the ER every October.

by Tango and Cash on Jan 29, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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