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The All-Time LA Dodger Team: The #1 Starter

All-Time Lineup#1 | #2 | #3 | #4 | #5 | #6 | #7 | #8

Thanks to all of your votes -- over 1,500 in all -- our All-Time LA Dodger starting lineup is now set:

All-Time LA Dodger Lineup

No Player Pos
30 Maury Wills
SS
19 Jim Gilliam 2B
31 Mike Piazza C
28 Pedro Guerrero RF
6 Steve Garvey 1B
10
Ron Cey 3B
12
Dusty Baker LF
3
Willie Davis CF

Now that we've decided who will score the runs, it's time to find out the primary factors to preventing runs:  the starting pitchers.

To decide the five-man starting staff, we are using only pitchers who have started 100 games for the LA Dodgers.  There are 29 such pitchers, more than enough from which to choose an excellent starting staff.  There are some good pitchers left off the list -- Rick Rhoden and Mike Morgan, for instance -- but none whose absence will affect this list.  The only notable name missing really is Chad Billingsley, who is 32 starts shy of the magical 100-start mark, so his 3rd best ERA+ in LA Dodger history will have to wait for future polls.

Here are the 29 starters, ranked by total LA Dodger starts (stats include all games pitched):

Pitcher Starts W-L Win% ERA+
Don Sutton 533 233-181 .563 110
Don Drysdale 424 187-152 .552 117
Claude Osteen 335 147-126 .538 106
Fernando Valenzuela   320 141-116 .549 107
Orel Hershiser 309 135-107 .558 116
Sandy Koufax 286 156-77 .670 135
Bob Welch 267 115-86 .572 114
Burt Hooton 265 112-84 .571 113
Ramon Martinez 262 123-77 .615 109
Johnny Podres 220 95-74 .562 104
Jerry Reuss 201 86-69 .555 113
Hideo Nomo 191 81-66 .551 104
Doug Rau 184 80-58 .580 106
Chan Ho Park 181 84-58 .592 109
Bill SInger 179 69-76 .476 105
Tommy John 174 87-42 .674 118
Tom Candiotti 159 52-64 .448 106
Ismael Valdes 158 61-57 .517 115
Derek Lowe 135 54-48 .529 122
Pedro Astacio 132 48-47 .505 104
Kevin Brown 129 58-32 .644 147
Stan Williams 129 57-46 .553 105
Andy Messersmith 123 55-34 .618 129
Odalis Perez 120 45-40 .529 102
Al Downing 120 46-37 .554 107
Tim Belcher 119 50-38 .568 118
Brad Penny 115 46-33 .582 108
Darren Dreifort 113 48-60 .444 95
Rick Honeycutt 108 33-45 .423 100

Here's how the voting will work this time around:  simply vote for the best starter among all the choices.  For instance, now we are voting for the #1 starter.  The head honcho.  The big cheese.  The big kahuna.  The guy who will start games 1, 4, and 7 in the World Series.  Once that winner is decided, he gets dropped off the poll, and a new poll will commence for the #2 starter, choosing the best from the 28 pitchers remaining.  The process will continue until we have chosen five starting pitchers, our all-time starting rotation.

Eric's Pick

This is a no-brainer, right?  Sandy Koufax is without question the top starter in Dodger history.  His 1963-1966 run represents four of the top nine ERA+ seasons in LA Dodger history, including the top two. 

Kevin Brown actually had a higher ERA+ than Koufax (147 to 135), but Brown simply wasn't healthy long enough to come close to this spot, having only been healthy for 3.5 seasons in Los Angeles.  Let's face it, if Sandy Koufax -- he of one of the classic short careers in baseball history -- has you beat on longevity, you aren't going to win that battle.

Don Sutton has all the counting stat records, with 15 full seasons with the Dodgers, but he doesn't hold a candle to Koufax.  Of the top 25 game scores in LA Dodger history, Koufax has 13 of them.  Sutton has two.

Don Drysdale was a great pitcher, but Walter Alston made the choice for me in the 1965 World Series.  In Game 7 in Minnesota, Alston had the choice of going with his star RHP Drysdale, on three days rest, or his star LHP Koufax on only two days rest.  Alston chose Koufax, who proceeded to win the title by throwing a shutout.

Tom Verducci, otherwise known as Joe Torre's co-author, described Koufax this way for Sports Illustrated in 1999:

Koufax was God's template for a pitcher: a prizefighter's back muscles for strength, long arms for leverage and long fingers for extra spin on his fastball and curveball. The baseball was as low as the top of his left ankle when he reached back to throw in that last calm moment of his delivery—like a freight train cresting a hill—just before he flung the weight and force of his body toward the plate.

I'm comfortable with God's template for a pitcher leading our staff.

Phil's Pick

After getting whacked in my Beltre support I'll slide over today to the guy who should win every vote except those who just want to be different.  As we get down to the other spots I'll have plenty to say. Big Don may be in the HOF but will he make our rotation? The starting lineup may not be all I imagined but whoever we put together for our rotation, these guys aren't going to be giving up many runs.

Who's your pick?

Poll
Who is the #1 Starting Pitcher in LA Dodger History?
Don Sutton
1 votes
Don Drysdale
6 votes
Claude Osteen
0 votes
Fernando Valenzuela
5 votes
Orel Hershiser
3 votes
Sandy Koufax
182 votes
Bob Welch
0 votes
Burt Hooton
0 votes
Ramon Martinez
1 votes
Johnny Podres
0 votes
Jerry Reuss
1 votes
Hideo Nomo
2 votes
Doug Rau
1 votes
Bill Singer
0 votes
Tommy John
0 votes
Tom Candiotti
5 votes
Ismael Valdes
0 votes
Derek Lowe
0 votes
Pedro Astacio
0 votes
Kevin Brown
0 votes
Stan Williams
0 votes
Andy Messersmith
0 votes
Odalis Perez
0 votes
Al Downing
0 votes
Tim Belcher
0 votes
Brad Penny
0 votes
Darren Dreifort
0 votes
Rick Honeycutt
0 votes

207 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 22 comments |

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Comments

Display:

Doug Rau!

That has to be Andrew Shimmin, right?

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 31, 2009 10:42 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Pas moi

But I would have voted for Cody Ross if you’d thought to include him on the ballot. Or Jayson Werth.

by Andrew Shimmin on Jan 31, 2009 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

comedy option Darren Dreifort

by kretz on Jan 31, 2009 10:58 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Chan Ho Park?

Just saw his stats; I didn’t realize he was that good when he used to start for us. I only remember Park from the Rangers. I might slot him into #4 or 5.

by soccerman8 on Jan 31, 2009 11:17 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

At least one of those Park votes is legitimate. Take that Andrew Grant!

by Andrew Shimmin on Jan 31, 2009 11:21 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

re:

Andrew was probably more polite then I was. Park is off the table. Take that PenBoy.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 31, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Disenfranchisement!

I really only voted the once. But my hat is off to whoever was freeping your poll. Imagine having the capacity to entertain yourself is such a way, with so little energy and no discernible reward. It’s like free cocaine without the nosebleeds.

by Andrew Shimmin on Jan 31, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

re:

Maybe that was how Wills won the 1st poll.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 31, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nosebleeds

I save my nosebleeds for time travel, thank you very much.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 31, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I just wanted to add...

…that this:

Imagine having the capacity to entertain yourself is such a way, with so little energy and no discernible reward

Is one of the greatest rip/compliments of all time.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 31, 2009 11:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There’s a whiff of envy in the air. Verily, your poll stuffer is a triumph of evolution. Twenty years from now, we’ll all be lining up for the recombinant DNA vaccine that rejiggers the pleasure centers of our brains to function the way his does.

by Andrew Shimmin on Jan 31, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nomo

I voted for Koufax, but Nomo’s ERA+ doesn’t really represent how good he was before he got hurt and old. :o

by kensai on Jan 31, 2009 2:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Nomo was a sensation

He did have the #11, 41, and 65 top ERA+ seasons in LA Dodger history.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/FNwx

That said, he won’t sniff the top 5.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 31, 2009 2:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Drysdale

My guess is that he makes the starting five with ease, given the voting population. Wills and to some extent Jr. made it, me thinks, based upon voters who had actually seen them play. Seeing Big Don pitch was something, well, if your name was not Big Mac.

by Bob Hendley on Jan 31, 2009 6:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

There's even a question?

How can you vote for ANYONE but Koufax?
Not only the greatest Dodger pitcher, he is top 5 MLB period!
I guess if you aren’t old enough to have seen him you only have the stats, and as overwhelming as they are, HE was MORE overwhelming and all of that done with a bum arm.
He was injured and shot with cortisone the majority of the 1961-66 seasons. He is nothing short of the most MIRACULOUS pitcher in history. He was a work of God’s great art!
NO ONE should come close in this vote.

by dodgerbill on Jan 31, 2009 8:53 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Question mark instead of period?

I’m not sure Koufax is in the top 5 of all-time. In fact, I’m fairly certain he’s not. He has a little James Dean / John Kennedy in him, in that his legend grew after he left the big stage early (at least he didn’t die!). Koufax didn’t have to go through the decline phase that everyone goes through, and when you consider park effects and the low-scoring era, his relative greatness is somewhat diminished.

His final 5 years were certainly amazing, but let’s look how they stack up against the peaks of some other greats:

Pedro (1999-2003): 228 ERA+
Maddux (1994-1998): 202 ERA+
Big Train (1911-1915): 200 ERA+
Unit (1998-2002): 175 ERA+
Pete Alexander (1915-1919): 175 ERA+
Grove (1928-1932): 172 ERA+
Mathewson (1908-1912): 170 ERA+
Koufax (1962-1966): 167 ERA+
Kevin Brown (1996-2000): 164 ERA+

Koufax’s case rests strongly on his peak value, yet his peak is lower than many that also best him in career value.

Trust me, though, I love Sandy Koufax. I just think a lot of his value lies in his legend that has grown since he walked away at 30 years old.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Jan 31, 2009 9:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Whose idea of a joke was it to put Dreifort on this list? I want answers!

Dodger Fever: Catch it every summer; head to the ER every October.

by Tango and Cash on Feb 1, 2009 9:05 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

PEDRO ASTACIO!!!!! Why are you doing this to us?!

Dodger Fever: Catch it every summer; head to the ER every October.

by Tango and Cash on Feb 1, 2009 9:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dreifort / Astacio / Odalis, etc

Think about those guys as a palette-cleansing sorbet in between the main courses of Koufax, Big D, Orel, Fernando, et al.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Feb 1, 2009 9:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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2010 Dodger Payroll

Pos No Player 2010 Salary
C 55 Martin $5,050,000
1B 7 Loney $3,100,000
2B 33 DeWitt $410,000*
3B 23 Blake $6,000,000
SS 15 Furcal $8,500,000
LF 99 Manny $7,267,760
CF 27 Kemp $4,000,000
RF 16 Ethier $6,000,000

2B/3B 14 Carroll $1,350,000
2B/3B/1B 3 Belliard $825,000
C 12 Ausmus $850,000
OF 5 Johnson $800,000
SS 60 Hu $405,000*

SP 22 Kershaw $425,000*
SP 58 Billingsley $3,850,000
SP 18 Kuroda $14,100,000
SP 44 Padilla $4,025,000
SP 50 Stults $405,000*

CL 51 Broxton $4,000,000
LHP 52 Sherrill $4,500,000
LHP 56 Kuo $950,000
RHP 67 Troncoso $425,000*
RHP 54 Belisario $425,000*
RHP 31 McDonald $425,000*
RHP 68 Monasterios $460,000*

Pierre $4,000,000
Andruw $3,600,000
Schmidt $2,000,000
Wolf $2,000,000
Hudson $1,440,000
Nomar $1,250,000
Ohman $200,000
Zerpa $35,000
Hoffmann ($50,000)

Others on 40-man roster (total: 39)
RHP 37 Haeger  
RHP 73 Link  
RHP 47 Wade
C 9 Ellis  
C 71 May  
SS 87 DeJesus  
OF 75 Paul
OF 17 Repko $500,000
RHP 64 Guerra**  
RHP 74 Jansen**  
LHP 59 Leach**
RHP 49 Schlichting**  
LHP 57 Elbert**  
OF 62 Robinson**  

Totals $93,522,760
 
Red = arbitration
Asterisk (*) = estimated
** = currently in minor league camp
For more detailed information, click here.

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