Los Angeles Dodgers Number Four 2010 Top Prospect - Chat & Vote
by Phil Gurnee on Oct 27, 2009 11:46 AM PDT
in Minor League Updates
277 comments
TBLA Prospect Number One Chat and Vote - Chris WIthrow
TBLA Prospect Number Two Chat and Vote - Dee Gordon
TBLA Prospect Number Three Chat and Vote - Scott Elbert
Scott Elbert gets on the board with a closer vote then the previous two spots. So far we have a power 20 year old, a Jose Reyes or Jimmy Rollins ceiling SS, and now Elbert. Elbert could become Billy Wagner if relegated to the bullpen or hopefully make a dent in the rotation. SilverWidow has requested Garrett Gould be added to the list making him the youngest player on the list below. TBLA members were elated when we signed Gould after making him our 2nd round pick since he was considered to have a first round arm thus making up for the loss our real 1st round pick when we signed Orlando Hudson.
| Prospect Information |
| DOB | Prospect Name | Drafted | Info |
| 7/19/1991 | Garrett Gould | 2009 No 2 | Gould only pitched in three games for Ogden so any support for him will have to come from what he did in high school. From the baseball factory:
Gould is a big, strong RHP who is aggressive with his fastball that pushes into the low 90s. There is some deception to his high effort delivery and a curve ball with bite and change with fade round out his repetoireThis is what Kensai has to say about him |
| 2/13/1990 | Nathan Eovaldi | 2008 No 11 | Nathan was supposed to be a sleeper pick headed into this season but anyone who payed attention knew about his big arm. He had a few stretches this year where he was the best pitcher for the Loons and just like Miller, he was never allowed to throw more then three innings after Aug 1st. He had a rough April, settled down in May and then went the exact opposite of Martin with a stunning June in which he allowed only two earned runs in five starts. His numbers in Aug were dreadful as the K/PA fell to 14% while the BB/PA increased to 15% after being below 9% the previous three months. He's already had TJ surgery, will his arm hold up over a full professional season? Given how few innings he pitched in 2009 the fall off in August has to be a little concerning. |
| 6/6/1989 | Ethan Martin | 2008 No 1 | Number one pick in 2008 Ethan Martin started 2009 on fire but ran into trouble in June April. He ended up the year in a tag team with Nathan Eovaldi and the Dodgers never let him throw more the 3 innings after Aug 1st. Highlights - April - 32.9 K/PA along with 8.9 BB/PA , Downlights - June - 14.7 K/PA and 13.7 BB/PA. He was picked by BA as the 10 best prospect in the MWL. He very possibly has the best arm on this list, unless it Nathan Eovaldi's. |
| 5/1/1987 | DeJesus, Ivan | 2005 No 2 | Did not play in 2009 due to a broken leg. I'm firmly convinced that if DeJesus had played this season he'd be the top position prospect for the Dodgers. We already know what he can do in AA at the age of 21 so it doesn't take much insight to figure he'd have kicked butt in 2009 at AA/AAA. That said his best skills are his ability to play SS and plate discipline. It remains to be seen if he can be a major league SS and post an OBP of around .380 which he will need to be useful. If he becomes Luis Castillo without the speed I'm not sure just how useful that is. |
| 9/1/1987 | Trayvon, Robinson | 2005 No 10 | No one made a bigger move up the prospect ladder then Trayvon Robinson who came into the year with a reputation as a slap hitter with great speed who struck out to much and had little plate discipline. He ended the 2009 campaign as the starting CF for the AA Lookouts after torching the California League, showing large not subtle improvement in his power and plate discipline. |
| 9/18/1987 | Aaron Miller | 2009 Suppl No 1 | Number one 2009 draft pick Aaron Miller was quick to make an impact with his sterling work for the Great Lake Loons, winning the first playoff game in Loon history and impressing everyone along the way. Striking out over 32% of batters faced while walking less then 10% will put a smile on Dodgers fans as they contemplate the future with Aaron Miller. |
| 6/15/1987 | Josh Lindblom | 2008 No 2 | 2008 number two pick Lindblom started out in AA working in relief and starting but once promoted to AAA he was used strictly as a relief pitcher. He had a good year but not a dominating year and failed to make any top prospect lists. |
| 8/11/1988 | Andrew Lambo | 2007 No 4 | Muddled through his first full season of AA ball and some scouts have marked him down to a fourth outfielder. That seems very premature given his age since he only turned 21 during the season. He held his own but didn't give any indication he can hit enough to man LF but the jury is still out. With an ISOP of only .150 in combination of a walk rate below 9% he's got a lot of work to do but has plenty of time to get that work in. On the plus side he is totally mashing in the AFL as we speak. BA ranked him as the 18th top prospect in the Southern league. |
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I admit I know nothing
more than what I saw in spring training and what I’ve read on this site, Kensai’s, and others, but I would have put my list together as so:
Elbert
Gordon
Withrow
DeJesus
I voted for Elbert in every round so far, lol.
by LA Taco on Oct 27, 2009 11:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I went with Miller over DeJesus.
My reasoning was that with Gordon ahead of him, DeJesus is going to have to show a little more offensive potential for what the Dodgers need at 2B. I think he has a chance to do that, but the fact that he didn’t get to play this year and that Miller did so well made me go with Miller.
by pdotmac1 on Oct 27, 2009 11:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What makes you think Gordon is ahead of him?
Gordon hasn’t even advanced past low A yet, whilst DeJesus has already performed in AA. DeJesus (at this point) is clearly ahead of Gordon.
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the SS depth chart
DeJesus may be ahead of Gordon but on the ceiling chart Gordon will sit on top of Ivan.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I picked Ivan De Jesus
Sad that he suffered a broken leg, but this guy is the real deal. Great OBP, Great discipline, great defensive skills. Phil’s right, we already know what he can do at AA at age 21. Hopefully his leg wont bother him and we can see him at AAA next year and more.
Apologies to Lambo, Elbert, Lindblom
by Julio Nievas on Oct 27, 2009 12:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I picked him in the last three rounds. :)
vr, Xei
by Xeifrank on Oct 27, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as did I lol
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
by Ollie on Oct 27, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BP with some Aaron Miller Love
Looking like an early steal
Aaron Miller, LHP, Dodgers (AFL: Peoria Javelinas)
Yesterday’s stats: 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 3 K
Many pro scouts in baseball have little or no amateur coverage, so many are seeing Miller for the first time, and you know a player is gaining helium when a scout says to you, as one recently did about Miller, “How did this guy get past the first round?” A big, very athletic left-hander, Miller doesn’t have monster velocity, but it sits about average and can get up to 92-93 mph when he needs to dial it up a bit, and his power breaking ball is a true plus offering. He cruised at Low-A after signing, with a 2.08 ERA in seven Midwest League starts, and he should reach Double-A at some point in his full-season debut.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 12:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Will he increase velocity?
Kudos to Logan White
by Julio Nievas on Oct 27, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Impressive
Struck out the side yesterday
by Julio Nievas on Oct 27, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miller being a guy who doesn’t necessarily throw as hard could be great since he’s most likely going to be in a rotation full of power arms
by pdotmac1 on Oct 27, 2009 12:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lambo
I’m wondering if his AFL success will lead to a AAA promotion as opposed to repeating Chattanooga.
by silverwidow on Oct 27, 2009 12:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My guess is that would be unlikely.
But that’s mostly based on what the Dodger organization seems to feel about the hitting environment in Alb.
by pdotmac1 on Oct 27, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could see this as the AAA outfield by mid-season, at least:
LF: Lambo
CF: Paul
RF: Hoffmann
by silverwidow on Oct 27, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, I just think Lambo will mash in AA for two months before he’s promoted.
I’m just not sure what Kyle Russel is going to learn in the Cal League, which could lend to your thought that Lambo could start in AAA.
by pdotmac1 on Oct 27, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
Lambo has to prove he can hit in AA first.
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Natural progression should be:
April 1st AAA – Hoffman/Paul/Giles
AA – Van Slyke/Robinson/Lambo
A+ – Russell/.Sands/Silverio
A Galvez/Buss/Songco
July 1st AAA – Hoffman/Paul/Lambo
AA – Russell/Robinson/Van Slyke
A+ Galvez/Sands/Silverio
A Akins/Buss/Songco
Not that Akins is a CF
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paul will be the 4th outfielder with the Dodgers once Pierre is traded
Phil’s prediction of that happening has me very excited…
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basing any of my conjecture for your excitement
might be a road you don’t want to travel but I can’t imagine Paul repeating AAA again.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But isn't Pierre a very good 4th outfielder?
if that is his only role…. and he knows it…. and accepts it….
It is not like we are blocking young Barry Bonds with XPaul here.
by delias man on Oct 27, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pierre
is a solid 4th OF, but not that good. If they can dump half of his salary and put that into other areas, the drop-off to Paul is more than acceptable, IMO
by LA Taco on Oct 27, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The salary is already a lost cause at this point.
by delias man on Oct 27, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not at 10M
if you can eat 5M per year you are freeing up an additional 5M per year to improve the team. Paul can everything better the Pierre except run. He’d be a much stronger addition to the team as the 4th oufielder. If Ned can move Pierre while eating 50% of the contract he can improve the team in two ways.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 years, $6.25m
That is the market for Pierre. That is the contract Willy Taveras signed with the Reds last offseason.
If the Dodgers trade Pierre and his $18.5 million remaining, they would have to eat at least $12 million IMO. Which, of course, would be fine, given that the contract is a sunk cost anyway.
I don’t think he will be traded, but if there was a time to do it, it would be now when Pierre is still getting plaudits for his hot May. Then again, Joe Morgan wasn’t hired as the Padres’ GM so maybe his most eager suitor isn’t in play.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems like the league
likes JP more than Taveras.
I would say they like him 33% more.
So the market could bear 2 years at 9m.
by LA Taco on Oct 27, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so
He’s due, what 18m over the next 2 years? If you can get someone to take on 9m of that, you’ve got 4.5m extra to spend.
I have a strong suspicion that McCourt is going to be VERY cheap. 4.5m gets you something without losing much (if anything).
by LA Taco on Oct 27, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we can unload his contract, we have to do it.
by pdotmac1 on Oct 27, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
Paul is a better hitter and fielder. Pierre is a pinch runner.
Pierre’s lmited defensive skills hurt the team when you try to get him into the game. If you want to give Ethier a break, you have to take Kemp out of CF and move him to RF so that Pierre can play CF. You wouldn’t have to do that with Paul. Also, Paul makes sense as a late game defensive subsitition since he’s a better outfielder than Manny and Ethier; can’t say that about Pierre.
Pierre’s skill set is too limited to be a 4th outfielder, I’d rather have a utility guy who can play all 3 positions and has some pop with his bat. That’s Paul.
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did not mean to start this old discussion up.
I am not a Pierre fan, and I know all his weaknesses. Maybe I should say that I do not believe in Paul yet.
by delias man on Oct 27, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again, just to defend Juan Pierre,
He is NOT just a pinch runner. As we saw this summer, he was able to fill in for Manny and do a decent job for a while. A pinch runner would be someone like Reggie Willits who can’t hit with same batting a average that Juan Pierre can.
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I’m also glad that Juan had a nice month when Manny was out thanks to an off the charts BABIP which everybody knew was unsustainable and wasn’t. I fully expect that his OPS+ would have further regressed if the Dodgers were in the unfortunate situation of needing Juan to start. As of now though, you wouldn’t reasonably bring him in to pinch hit or be a defensive substitution, he’s also not a starter so that leaves he one last elite skill as running really fast.
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't the definition of a fourth outfielder someone
who can fill in when a starter gets hurt or is out for some reason? A fourth outfielder doesn’t need to put up the numbers that a starter would. He just needs to be able to man a position and not be inept like someone like Reggie Willits or Jason Repko would be. Those types of guys are “pinch runners.” So what if Pierre had a great few months, why hold that against him? He gave the Dodgers what a fourth outfielder should and more. He gave them a few months of good baseball. I am all for trading Juan Pierre and his oversized contract and giving a guy like Paul or Hoffmann a shot, but Juan Pierre is not just a pinch runner.
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A fourth outfielder is a utility man
someone who can give the outfielders a rest or can be a pinch hitter.
Juan was so bad at CF that management went out and got Andruw Jones after Juan’s first year, pretty much realizing that Juan is not a good CF. He physically cannot play RF. Therefore, he can only really backup the left fielder. That’s not desirable for a 4th outfielder.
As I said, the only skill he has over others is his ability to run fast.
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He can capably man center field and left field.
He is not a great defensive outfielder, but he can capably man the position in a sub-position. He can also hit decent enough to where he won’t strikeout 3 times in a game or be over matched in an average major league game in the same way that minor league potential 4th outfielder might. Juan is not a great player, but he is also a much better player than Jason Repko, Reggie Willits, or any other marginal major league player similar to those guys. Those are the kind of guys who are the type of pinch runner you are referring to.
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reggie Willits is a perfect example of Juan Pierre
2006-2009 (Willits’ career):
Willits – .265/.365/.309, 80 OPS+ (in 804 PA)
Pierre – .294/.336/.367, 81 OPS+
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many plate appearances did Juan Pierre have
in that time?
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If given the prefernce between Juan Pierre
to take 2310 at-bats for me, or Reggie Willits, I would take JP. I doubt Reggie Willits would sustain his stats where he is at over that same amount of at-bats.
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyway,
nevermind this argument. It is going nowhere.
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you keep up bringing up Repko and Willits?
Pierre is not being evaluated compared to those players. He’s being compared to Hoffmann and Paul.
In that case, does Pierre match up favorably or unfavorably with those two when it comes to hitting? I would argue unfavorably. Does he match up favorably or unfavorably with Hoffmann and Paul when it comes to outfield defense? I would argue unfavorably. Does he match up favorably or unfavorably when it comes to pinch running? I would argue favorably.
Therefore, in the context of competition for the 4th outfielder position, Juan’s lone advantage compared to the competition is his ability as a pinch runner.
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My reason for arguing with you
is that you imply that Juan Pierre is only worhtwhile as pinch runner. I can find no reason to agree with that.
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would also like to ask you this:
What if that pinch runner Juan Pierre wasn’t playing for Manny Ramirez and having a great month, over 30 games started? Do you think the Dodgers would have held off the Rockies?
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have any reason to believe that Juan Pierre is better at baseball than Paul or Hoffmann
considering his production in May was BABIP related, I have no way of knowing if that would have happened for Paul or Hoffmann. Maybe they would have been as lucky as Juan, maybe not, but holding up that month as though it is somewhat meaningful would be silly.
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
The second half of the suspension he was awful. He was 264/319/309 in June.
by delias man on Oct 27, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you please provide your basis that Manny, Ethier, and Pual are better LF than Pierre?
There is so much Hyperbole whenever discussing Pierre, I think we should only use facts, otherwise it get ridiculous.
by Cool Dudes on Oct 27, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Manny is a better LF than Pierre
he just happens to have an OPS north of .900 compared to Juan’s career OPS of .703.
Ethier is more valuable in that a) he’s a much better hitter and b) he can play RF where Juan cannot.
As to why Hoffmann and Paul are better than Pierre is again because they can actually play RF where Juan cannot. They can also occasionally hit for power seeing as how both hit homeruns in their limited time in the majors.
I’m not sure if you are asking me for defensive statistics for all of them. As you probably know, UZR would be completely meaningless for Paul and Hoff as they didn’t get enough reps at the ML level. But the question isn’t simply who’s a better LF—- since Ethier and Kemp are going to need the occasional day off as well. As such, Paul and Hoffmann can spell those guys without having as severe a drop in defense as Pierre would, since it would mean that our best defensive outfielder doesn’t have to move to RF to acomodate for Juan’s lack of an arm.
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Juan could play right
he would just have to run the ball in.
Maybe if that had a reverse Fenway somewhere.
by Cool Dudes on Oct 27, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Juan Can Cover Center as well
You just don’t want to see a throw to the plate from there (or anywhere but 2nd). Also .703 OPS vs .749 (average CF OPS) isn’t that far off especially if you add in busted double plays and stolen bases over replacement.
If we calculated his offensive/defensive CF numbers, I’m sure he would rank at the head of the 4th OF class.
by Cool Dudes on Oct 27, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From a scouting perspective
per Kensai
Jamie Hoffmann
Fielding-He’s a well above-average fielder at the corner outfield positions, and his strong arm allows him to play anywhere. However, I think his defense is a bit overrated at this point. Baseball America has rated him as the best defensive outfielder in the system for a while now, but I don’t think he has the overall defensive package that Paul or Kemp did, especially in center.
http://www.memoriesofkevinmalone.com/2009/05/prospect-profiles-2009-jamie-hoffmann_26.html
Xavier Paul
Fielding-Paul can play left, right, or center, but he is much better as a corner outfielder. He used to throw in the mid-90s as a pitcher, and his arm strength in the outfield is elite. His range is only above average, and it’s the only thing limiting him defensively. He continues to make improvements on his center field defense, but that’s going to have to continue if he wants to play the position at the major league level.
http://www.memoriesofkevinmalone.com/2009/02/prospect-profiles-2009-xavier-paul_10.html
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, you can trade Pierre
too . . ?
by Cool Dudes on Oct 27, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would guess Pierre > Hoffmann as a hitter at this stage
Hoffmann was DFAed and went unclaimed. Admittedly that was at a low-risk time when many teams have little room on their 40-man rosters, but he doesn’t exactly have killer minor-league credentials either.
by David Young on Oct 27, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not right away
It’s kind of like MLB regular season and post season.
Will you give a player more money because he did a hell of a lot better in the post-season than regular season?
by Julio Nievas on Oct 27, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I am just having a bad math day, but how can a pitcher have 32.9K/PA? Does this mean the pitcher strikes out 32.9 players per plate appearance? Seems impossible. Shouldn’t it be a number less than 1.0? Same thing with walks.
vr, Xei
by Xeifrank on Oct 27, 2009 1:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He strikes out 32.9% of the batters he faces
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some fun
2010
Kershaw – AS
Billingsly -AS
Kuroda
McDonald
Haeger
Elbert/Lindblom head to the bullpen
2011
Kershaw – AS
Billingsly
Withrow ROY
McDonald
Haeger
Javy Guerra joins bullpen
2012
Kershaw AS/CY Young
Billingsly
Withrow AS
Aaron Miller
McDonald
Brett Wallach joins bullpen
2013
Kershaw
Withrow
Aaron Miller
Ethan Martin
Garrett Gould
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 1:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why is Bills only on the AS team once?
by Julio Nievas on Oct 27, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bring me back my CHAD!!!
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Oct 27, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great stuff by Kensai on Gould
His follow through does look a bit off balance though from the picture it looks like Pedro Martinez’s landing.
Considering scouts do believe there are mechanical issues with his delievery (even though Kensai isn’t particularly concerned) and his lack of putting in innings against professionals as of yet, I find it quite premature to consider him higher than any of the others on the list above. Just my two cents.
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 1:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lambo should win this hands down
if de jesus wasnt injured, he might have won.. but he is coming off the broken leg… so its gotta be lambo..
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 2:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
But if you're giving 2009 production that much weight
wouldn’t you agree Lambo’s poor year last year hurt his stock? Neither Lambo nor DeJesus performed last year; and at least there was a medical reason for DeJesus.
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have not read if there
was a reason he struggled last year?
by delias man on Oct 27, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
dejesus didnt perform at all
at least lambo slugged .400 and almost led the league in doubles at the age of 20
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus he is doing great in the afl
and scouts say he reminds them of a less patient more raw power ANDRE Ethier!!!! this guy is better then a 2nd basemen who will only give you OBP and no power in a now offensive position
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's funny how quickly opinions change on these guys
Somebody posted an article after the season saying that Lambo was going to be a LF only and noting his struggles in AA.
Now he rakes in the AFL and he’s a more powerful Andre Ethier.
I’ll take a wait and see approach on Lambo.
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it fair to compare Lambo to Colby Rasmus?
by Julio Nievas on Oct 27, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not at all
rasmus has more home run power and is a center fielder..
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I keep hearing that 2nd base is now an offensive position
Anyone care to elaborate on who these NL offensive 2nd baseman are besides Utley?
Luis Castillo, No
Anyone on the Nat’s , No
D Young, No
XStien, No
Abreu, No
Giants, No
Rockies, No
Dodgers, No
Brewers, Weeks, Maybe
Marlins, Uggla – home runs, nothing else
Prado
Schumaker
Lopez
Just because Kensai said that 2nd base is becoming an offensive position doesn’t make it so. The league is full of drecks at the position and I don’t see any new blood upgrading it.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When was second base an offensive position
Quick name the greatest second baseman in the last 20 years (this excludes ESPN’s Joe Morgan).
Craig Biggio (converted catcher)
by bhsportsguy on Oct 27, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chase Utley? (Too soon?)
Jeff Kent?
Roberto Alomar?
Ryne Sandberg? He’s in the HOF and played the first eight years of the last 20.
by David Young on Oct 27, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2B is almost the same offensively as 3B
It’s all just relative
NL 2009
as 2B – .268/.337/.406 (.742 OPS)
as 3B – .261/.333/.419 (.752 OPS)
MLB 2009
as 2B – .271/.336/.416 (.752 OPS)
as 3B – .265/.335/.421 (.757 OPS)
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So when did an OPS of .752
start being considered an offensive position?
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That seems average to me
when someone tells me the position is becoming more offensive I would expect it to be more then average but then that is probably semantics.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
and if you take away pitchers, the MLB OPS was .763
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
take away P, C, and SS
and 2B is an offensive position
by LA Taco on Oct 27, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLB OPS by position
2009
1B .846
RF .791
LF .781
3B .757
2B .752
CF .749
SS .721
C .717
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'd be willing to bet
that it has always been in that order except when the trinity were playing SS. 2nd baseman are what they have always been.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
CF usually surpass 2B in OPS. I have gone back to 1999 so far, and this is the first year 2B has been ahead
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
disparity used to be greater
tom tango fleshed it all out, i don’t want to look because i’m lazy
by kensai on Oct 29, 2009 2:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha that just means there's a lot of lame center fielders right now
I can guarantee you that number will go up with Bison in CF next year.
by Cool Dudes on Oct 27, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyway the point of all this
is that DeJesus has just as much chance to be an average offensive 2nd baseman as Lambo does of becoming an average offensive left fielder with the difference being that we’d expect DeJesus to be an excellent defensive 2nd baseman while the same reports talking of the glowing words for Lambo’s bat also say he is indifferent to defense.
So, the final thought, is that this is not a slam dunk for Lambo.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes but i would rather take someone who actually played this year
over someone who was injured The WHOLE YEAR..
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your perogative
just don’t tell the rest of us that it is a slam dunk just because you feel Lambo is the choice.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh??
i just explained my damn reasoning….
heloooo anyonee in there????
a fringe average 2nd basemen at best WHO WAS INJURED the whole year is not going ahead of someone who even tho struggled is a top 100 prospect in baseball still and has a higher ceiling
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've yet to see Lambo on any of these top 100 lists
you mention. Care to link me.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lambo was 49 by Baseball America coming into 2009, but I don’t know if he makes it for 2010
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/top-100-prospects/2009/267701.html
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2009/10/26/1099439/shs-2010-top-100-prospects-in-milb#comments
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2009/10/25/1099839/early-prediction-of-bas-top-100
lambo in the top 100 while dejesus is not only not in it but not even in Honorable mentions..
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was not done by Sickels
If you want to see Sickels list at the end of the year here it is
http://www.rotowire.com/baseball/features/2009_top100prospects.htm
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are those guys considered experts in the field?
Prospect opinions vary wildly; it’s not something that can be argued to a point where the other side must concede. It’s always up for debate.
by David Young on Oct 27, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SS and 3B are offensive positions if you are the Yankees the next two years.
Does three weeks of Rolly Polly count?
by Cool Dudes on Oct 27, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say Lambo is raking in the AFL
Lots of players hit in Arizona, the pitching is really suspect. And remember, Brandon Wood hit 14 HRs in Arizona in 2005 (Kemp and Ethier hit 2 and 3, respectively that year).
Another thought and sobering too.
Odds are that one or two of the following will probably suffer some arm/shoulder injury before ever pitching in the majors:
Josh Lindblom
Ethan Martin
Aaron Miller
Chris Withrow
Nathan Eovaldi
Garrett Gould
All you have to do is look at the track record, Miller, Tiffany, Kuo, and Elbert, just to name recent Dodgers, Jarrad Parker is the latest big name prospect having TJ.
So projections are nice and fun but the reason teams don’t want to trade for really young pitchers, the risk so much greater that something will go wrong before they ever pitch in the majors.
by bhsportsguy on Oct 27, 2009 2:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't rain on our prospect parade.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey
It was your dream rotation of Jackson, Miller, Billingsley, Tiffany and someone else that got me thinking about this.,
by bhsportsguy on Oct 27, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hanrahan
You forgot to mention that besides injuries they could just end up sucking after a rapid rise through the system.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eovaldi already had TJ surgery. He’s going to be an utter beast with one more year removed.
by silverwidow on Oct 27, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or we are going to find his arm
is not going to hold up over 200 hard major league innings.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not project him as a starter. He will be a closer, just like Logan White intimated (“100 mph easy”).
by silverwidow on Oct 27, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In 1988
Not one starting position player in Game 1 of the World Series for the Dodgers had an OPS higher than the 2009 league average.
For the series, only one player who started had an OPS higher than the 2009 position average, can you guess who?
by bhsportsguy on Oct 27, 2009 2:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
wow
dejesus is running away with the vote…
what a joke… but whatever..
ethan martin is FOR SURE a top 5 Dodger prospect… i dont know how he has only gotten 5 vvotes..
On MINOR LEAGUE BALL.com they had a community vote on dodger prospects and ethan martin was number 2 prospect on most lists..
homer bailey was a top 50 prospect in MLB every year of his proffesionall career and was reds top 3 prospect and ethan martin put up the SAME exact stats with the same stuff in their first year….
i dont see how ethan martin is only getting 5 votes.
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 2:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Alright Matthew
Yesterday, you heavily criticized somebody for providing absolutely no reason to make a claim against Elbert.
Now you’re the pot calling the kettle black. Why exactly is Dejesus “A joke”?
by Talka1ot on Oct 27, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me get this straight
You think Lambo is the slam dunk here but you don’t understand how Martin has only five votes. Basically you just don’t like the fact anyone is voting for DeJesus because we haven’t penalized his injury the way you think we should have.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i guess you like fringe average second basemen
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kensai said fringe average SS, not a fringe average second baseman.
by Tripon on Oct 27, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh??
if hes a fringe average SS then hes a below average second basemen
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What? How does that work?
The requirements to play SS is harder than the requirements to play 2nd base.
by Tripon on Oct 27, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you are a average shortstop
and you go to second base…. you lose value… do you understand????
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
wtf? he asked me how does it work and i F’in explained….
how is that starting to be a dick??
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you understand????
heloooo anyonee in there????
Not here.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how is saying
“do you understand?”
bad?
i explained something and the person didnt understand the first time so i explained more clearly and asked if they understoood…
did you not like the extra question marks?
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The FOUR question marks imply “you idiot” being added to the question.
by David Young on Oct 27, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTF
in my reply is wrote
How is saying
“do you understand????”
i really meant to write 4 question marks not 1…
but i dont know how that means you idiot… if you want to imply that, that is for you… but i was not implying that and it is stupid to imply stuff
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You “imply” something with what you wrote, I “infer” something from what you wrote. Four question marks after “do you understand” is being very emphatic and implies “… and how could you not (you imbecile)????” along with it. Whether or not you meant it that way, that is how it is going to be taken. Trust me, I’ve been reading and writing in English for 44 or so years now.
by David Young on Oct 27, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can choose to ignore this; I see you’ve calmed down below.
by David Young on Oct 27, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense, but you don’t seem to grasp many things.
by Ivdown on Oct 27, 2009 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
totally unneccasary comment
are you trying to start trouble or something
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You were acting like a jerk earlier, it may not have been my place to say that but it wasn’t out of the blue at all.
by Ivdown on Oct 27, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not if he plays defense significantly better
his arm is better suited for second
by kensai on Oct 29, 2009 3:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Headed into 2009
As far as I’m concerned Lambo did nothing to surpass DeJesus this year.
4. Ivan De Jesus SS…..B/R…..21…..2005 (2) high school (PR)
Team (LG) AB AVG OBP SLG HR SB Eye
==== = = = === == == ====
Jacksonville (SOU) 463 .324 .419 .423 7 16 0.94
MLE 463 .292 .379 .380 6 14 0.98
Strengths: Athleticism. Contact/BA ability. Plate discipline. Baserunning instincts. Soft hands.
Weaknesses: Hitting for power. Speed (4.35). Average arm strength. Average range.
Comments: Premium defender with soft/quick hands and range, but positions self well compensating for average arm strength. Offense is based around BA where he features a short/compact swing and likes to use opposite field. Lacks secondary skills with very little power and average speed. Struggles against LH pitching and profiles better at 2B
MLB Debut: 2009
Potential Rating: 8C
6. Andrew Lambo OF/1B…..L/L…..20…..2007 (4) high school (CA)
Team (LG) AB AVG OBP SLG HR SB Eye
==== = = = === == == ====
Great Lakes (MWL) 472 .288 .346 .462 15 5 0.37
Jacksonville (SOU) 36 .389 .421 .750 3 0 0.22
Strengths: Strength. Bat speed/power/BA ability. Average arm strength.
Weaknesses: Plate discipline. Speed (4.35). Range.
Comments: Strong hitter with bat speed, fluid swing, and ability to use whole field giving him unlimited offensive potential. Hits pitchers from opposite side and stays inside ball. Average defensively at 1B, but being used in corner outfield where he will need to show better range. Excellent hitting approach.
MLB Debut: 2012
Potential Rating: 9E
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where is that from? Baseball HQ?
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, by someone who actually scouts the players
impartially.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a scale for potential ratings, like the 8C and 9E above?
I just hope DeJesus’ injury didn’t change his rating to 4-F :)
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Potential Rating System
We unveiled our new prospect rating system (see below) with the positional articles this winter and thought I would expound on it further.
For some time we have looked at ratings systems to rate prospects. From time to time, we have used the 20-80 scout grading scale in some of our articles, and while we feel comfortable using that, we only feel this should be used on players we have both seen personally and have a good handle on.
The system we settled on is similar to the rating system used at Hockey’s Future, which is an excellent hockey scouting site that rates amateur hockey players. It is a two-part system in which a player is assigned a grade based on upside potential and a second grade that rates the probability of that player achieving that potential (ex. 7B).
To attain the ratings, I enlisted the help of Jeremy Deloney and Rob Gordon. I sent them a list of names at each position with my ratings and they returned their ratings to me. If any two of us matched on a particular player, I used that rating. If we all differed, I took the average, with my rating being the tie-breaker. Since all three of us will be using the rating system, I felt we could get a more accurate result if we used three minds instead of one. There were some noted differences and each of us will have the freedom to go against the grain on certain prospects and explain why we feel the way we do.
We really tried to stress upside when using the potential rating, but we were realistic and factored in the role we believe the player will have a the Major League level. Next, we added the probability component to the rating, based on the chance that the player would achieve his upside potential.
You will notice on the positional articles that players not only were assigned a potential rating, but were also ranked by their potential ratings at the end of the article. We did adhere to making sure an 8B was ranked higher than an 8C, for example, but there might be confusion when ranking a 9D against a 7B. I wouldn’t read too much into that, but would instead treat the potential rating and the overall ranking as two separate things. Given both, one should have a pretty clear indication on the type of prospect he is and how he ranks amongst his peers.
You will notice the lack of “10” grades and that is by design. Giving a player a “10” indicates that this is a Hall of Fame caliber player and may be used only once or twice within a ten year period. This year, Justin Upton received a “10C” rating and we feel justi(n)fied in doing so. Looking back on prospects over the last 10-12 years, the only player I might have given a “10” to would have been Alex Rodriguez.
Thus far, I’ve been pleased with the rating system and you should see more of it in the future. Jeremy plans on using it for the Call-up Reports, Rob will be using it for his weekly Futures Hot Sheet, and it will be an added feature in next year’s Minor League Baseball Analyst, along with other projects I do for Baseball HQ.
The grading scale is outlined below:
Player Potential Rating (1-10) representing a player’s upside potential
10 – Hall of Fame-type player
9 – Elite player
8 – Solid regular
7 – Average regular
6 – Platoon player
5 – Major League reserve player
4 – Top minor league player
3 – Average minor league player
2 – Minor league reserve player
1 – Minor league roster filler
PROBABILITY RATING (A-E) representing the player’s realistic chances of achieving their potential
A – 90% probability of reaching potential
B – 70% probability of reaching potential
C – 50% probability of reaching potential
D – 30% probability of reaching potential
E – 10% probability of reaching potential
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That definition was written
in 2006. Kershaw received a 10 in 2007 joining Upton as the only other player to get 10 rating.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It it went back that far
perhaps Chipper Jones and A-Rod might have cracked the 10 rating as well. I’m sure there were others, but those two sprang to mind immediately.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It just dawned on me that
Upton’s 10C rating meant they thought/think he has a 50% chance at the HOF. Wowie wow wow.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always like the phrase “unlimited offensive potential.” That warms my heart.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re darn right I’m a fan of Stephen Louis Sax !
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Oct 27, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but he still has potential to be really good
and check out his last maybe 5 to 7 starts of the season.. he was real good plus he was always a top prospect…
by matthewmafa on Oct 29, 2009 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Know...
…I can’t help but notice that when people are talking about our pitching prospect studs the last few days nobody has made even ONE mention of Allen Webster. I have already made up my Top 30 Prospects list and have wanted to hold off publishing it till TBLA gets through its own rankings (might as well spread out the prospect talk), but I ranked Webster above Miller, Lindblom, Eovaldi, and Gould, and above quite a few position players. How is that for going against the grain of popular opinion?:)
by CanuckDodger on Oct 27, 2009 2:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Kind of ballsy
since he never pitched above rookie ball. What is your line of thinking on that? I can understand above Gould but no one else.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Webster's command is elite
I think that could be reason for him separating from his peers.
by silverwidow on Oct 27, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure but in rookie ball
If I cared about rookie ball stats I’d have ranked Rondon pretty damn high after his 2007 season
http://firstinning.com/players/Daigoro-Rondon-a/
when he walked only four people in 65 innings.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes he has good command
IN THE AZL….
no way this guy should crack our top 10…
not until he goes to A ball and does well like eovaldi miller and lindblom have done…
how can you rank him above eovaldi??? same age but webster was in the AZL most of the year while eovaldi was dominating A ball after the bad first month…
lindblom i understand cause hes a reliever and relievers shouldnt even be ranked top 10 unless they are special…
miller and webster are tough but what aarom miller has done so quickly…. you have to put him in front of the relitively unknown webster
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Webster Over Miller/Eovaldi
Webster was actually pitching in more hitter-friendly environments that the Midwest League (the ball really flies off the bat in Arizona and Utah). Miller being older makes it appropriate that he should be further along the development curve, but potential is a factor in these rankings, and Miller’s “average velocity” does not portend a high ceiling. Eovaldi’s inability to get many K’s with mid-90’s heat really concerns me. It tells me his breaking ball can’t be that good, yet. Webster’s breaking ball is already “plus,” and his change-up is called promising by BA, so it is not likely he is going to be relegated to the bullpen.
by CanuckDodger on Oct 27, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so let me ask you this
if eovaldi was in the AZL ( JOKE LEAGUE) the whole year… what would his stats be?? the azl is honestly a joke and i dont care what webster throws… eovaldis breaking ball would be classified as a plus offering against those hitters too…
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If your opinion is already formed and you don’t really care to consider someone’s answer, why ask the question?
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
what does it matter…
im asking a question to canuck dodger to see what his Oponion Is…
im learning and he gave me a good answer unlike you who just put something that someone can say rude….
we are having a discussion and isnt truebluela for discussions???
maybe i can reform my opnion once i learn… and thank to canuckdodger i have now learned more and i can see why webster is so highly ranked
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your tone
has been one of someone entering a knife fight with guns blazing.
Only there is no fight at all.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nope...
its just the way you are reading it…
maybe u dont like the question marks…
maybe you are overreacting
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, you are right. I am the only one here who has questioned your attitude and behavior in this thread.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah you and meercat
2 people…
small sample size…
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to go drunk with power or anything, but good luck finding two worse people to piss off.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
the owners of the SITE!! LOL
shit i should go mess with others not you guys..
but im just having a discusion.. thats what this thread is for… arguments and to prove your points…
alright thanks very much for your time lets go dodger prospects……!
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha Ha
I had a 50 word paragraph saying essentially the same thing.
I used my drunken power to a bad end this morning but it felt good.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Eric
You seem like you’re trying to start something.
by Ivdown on Oct 27, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it seems like you are trying to relight
a fire that burned out a long time ago..
bye
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At any rate, thank you for reverting to a more civil tone overall in general.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Althought its been said
You really never want to see me get mad.
I save all my anger for lousy UCLA quarterbacks, that takes up most of it.
by bhsportsguy on Oct 27, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AZL
If you are adamant that the AZL is a “joke league” what am I supposed to tell you? Carlos Frias threw up to 96 MPH in that league and he didn’t have as much success as Webster. Why? Because his breaking ball needs work. So we really don’t know what Eovaldi’s numbers would have looked like there. And it is not like this process is just about numbers. When you have scouting reports that say that a pitcher has trouble with any pitch that isn’t a fastball that has to be taken into consideration and his ranking should reflect that. Or at least in my personal rankings it does.
by CanuckDodger on Oct 27, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you for the great answer
really helped..
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
also for webster...
do you know if this guy was even highly touted or anthing coming out of high school.?
how did the dodgers just get this guy and he has become so great so qquickyly… it really amazes me
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, Webster Was Not Highly Touted At All In HS
The Dodgers’ pitching coaches apparently made Webster what he is today by teaching him proper mechanics. Webster probably went to a backwater HS where he didn’t get quality coaching. A lot of great pitchers didn’t take big steps forward until after they left high school. Roger Clemens was never drafted when he was in high school, but a couple of guys on his HS team were drafted. Clemens was out of shape when he was a high school, and he never threw a pitch that reached 90 MPH during that period of his life. Greg Maddux, on the other hand, could throw over 90 MPH as a high schooler.
by CanuckDodger on Oct 27, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Webster
BA said he throws his fastball up to 94-95 and has a good curve. He is apparently quite thin so that makes me think he could throw harder yet as he fills out. Also, his numbers show that he is rather unusual for a Dodger power pitching prospect in not having trouble with walks. He is two years younger than Miller and throws harder so I like that puts Miller behind him in my mind. I see Lindblom and Eovaldi as relievers, so that puts them behind Webster in my mind. We still haven’t seen too much out of Gould at the pro level, so I hesitate to rank him too high.
by CanuckDodger on Oct 27, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so u think eovaldi will be a reliever
what makes you think webster wont? just wondering.. the injury history?
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but I ranked Webster above Miller, Lindblom, Eovaldi, and Gould, and above quite a few position players. How is that for going against the grain of popular opinion?:)
I like contrarian opinions. Please post soon!
by silverwidow on Oct 27, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is nice to see how Logan has refilled the coffers
the last two years. I was looking at my old 2008 list and it is weak compared to the ceilings of these guys we are voting on. And who knows Canuck may be right that Webster could be better then any of them.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:07 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
As we discuss the merits of the farm system, and try to justify our reasoning for why we may value one prospect more than another, I think the statement above is the most important thing to keep in mind while we have these chats. Thank you Logan White!!!
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Oct 27, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lambo for me
but ethan martin is next
My reasoning is who i don’t want to see playing for the rockies or mCC
de jesus does not scare me
i don’t want martin going nuts in some other team
by hirambocachica on Oct 27, 2009 3:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The amazing thing is that almost everyone of these pitchers
Outside of Gould since he just signed out of high school.
Is older than Kershaw was when he pitched against the Cardinals in 5/2008.
by bhsportsguy on Oct 27, 2009 3:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That is how you become the youngest starting pitcher to start a game one NLCS
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stand corrected
Fernando and Ankiel were younger starting their game ones…of the NLDS
Kershaw is in fact the youngest Game 1 LCS starter ever
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm doing a dance on my table
I shall call that the Bob Timmerman in your face Eric Stephen gig
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
in your face dances? Those visits to the “gentlemens’ clubs” don’t count.
by David Young on Oct 27, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tonight’s weather forecast calls for making it rain
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If Ethan Martin
Can be a top ten prospect after being shut down in 2008. I see no reason why Webster can’t be on after his Arizona League season.
by bhsportsguy on Oct 27, 2009 3:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Webster was not a number one pick
almost every teams number one pick quickly becomes a top 10 prospect, sometimes even the number one guy. Webster made great strides, but until I see something outside of rookie ball he won’t touch my top ten but that is just my way of doing things.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
I am just saying that not all Number one picks remain on that list for long.
by bhsportsguy on Oct 27, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup same with me
even after webster got promoted he had 1 great outing and ended his season with 2 bad outing in ogden… didnt end on too much of a high note.. but his stuff alone has to be top 10 consideration worhthy
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In more ridiculous news
Jamie McCourt has living expenses of $488,000 per month
http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/27/jamie-mccourt-pulls-divorce-trigger/
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You know
This thing may end faster than you think
by bhsportsguy on Oct 27, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can only pray
they were who we thought they were
by LA Taco on Oct 27, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and we let them off the hook? :)
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I try to limit my living expenses to $100,000 per month tops, but it is hard, for those of use who have an image to hold up.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does it really take that much
to keep your mother’s basement and keep you stocked in underwear?
by David Young on Oct 27, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to remain neutral in this
But these types of facts will only hurt her in PR
Here are the benefits Jamie is requesting:
- travel by private jet
- 5 star hotel accommodations
- travel expenses – Unlimited
- business dinners 5 nights per week
- business lunches 5 days per week
- parking spots at Dodger Stadium
- flowers in the office
- making Dodger Legends available for events without charge
- provision of Dodger autographed items as requested for use in business and charitable activities
- hair and makeup for Dodger events
- access to team doctors for McCourt family members
- access to the owner’s suite for Dodger home games and non-baseball events at the stadium
- Tickets to All-Star games and playoff games — even if the Dodgers aren’t playing
- a pass to all National League games
Then there’s this: Jamie lists her monthly living expenses at $488,928 — THAT’S PER MONTH!!!!!!!!
Of those expenses, $333,000 goes towards her residence and vacation homes.
In the documents, Jamie claims the McCourt estate is valued in excess of $1 BILLION
by bhsportsguy on Oct 27, 2009 3:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That makes sense doesn't it?
If the Dodgers are valued at $800M and the houses at $82M then they only need an additional 118M to reach a billion. Pocket change?
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did she really request these things in her court docs?
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some of that shit seems outrageous.
How can she expect old ballplayers to come out and work for free for her? How can she expect that the Dodgers could secure her free passes into all the other MLB teams?
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The free passes are generally pretty easy from team to team. Kind of a quid pro quo agreement with other teams.
The “Dodger Legends” part did seem strange, though.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the owner of the Pirates
can go and watch the Yankees in the playoffs anytime he wants? I mean that makes sense, but if she is divorced from Frank and it is his team, how can she qualify for that? I must be missing something here.
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
She is suing for that “right” (as co-owner) to return.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
She has probably
been abusing the Dodger Legends by using them for all her functions.
Josh Rawitch could quit right now, and sell the Dodger inside story for a million bucks.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just realized our blog spot might be taken next year by Harvey Levin and crew! :)
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even she won that
She would look like a complete fool. What a crazy lady. She should just take her millions and start some new business or a war somewhere.
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, that’s a little too much dirty laundry for me.
“Hit em while they’re up, hit em while they’re down. Hit em in the knees.” – DH
vr, Xei
by Xeifrank on Oct 27, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great thread today
then Jamie ruins it.
In the documents, Jamie demands her job back as CEO and Vice-Chairman of the Dodgers … as well as the huge set of perks and benefits that go with owning the squad.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 4:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
TMZ writer
not a baseball fan. In what sport are they called a “squad”
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like using “squad” and “club” at times.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brits Often Call A Sports Team A "Side"
by CanuckDodger on Oct 27, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used to like using squid, but one day it just became too chewy for my taste. The club is what I save for the baby seals.
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Oct 27, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My goal for the offseason
is to not have to add a link on our left sidebar to TMZ
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:14 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Going to get all the compromising pitchers yourself huh?
ambitious.
by Cool Dudes on Oct 27, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're in a tough spot
on the one hand, this site is about baseball, not the bullshit personal lives of our incredibly annoying owner and his loathsome wife. on the other hand, nothing will affect the Dodgers more this off-season
by LA Taco on Oct 27, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
but I will stick to the stories like “Dodgers to discontinue Dominican academy due to lack of funds” or something like that which arise from the divorce but not the divorce itself.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you can do a link exchange with them. :)
vr, Xei
by Xeifrank on Oct 27, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I perused the filing
If you ever wanted to know the details albeit from one side of their finances, that is the document.
BTW – she is preempting his argument that back in 2004 she signed an agreement re sole/community property and that is what Frank is going to use to show that the Dodgers are his sole property. I do think that argument is unless he can show he purchased the team with his sole property.
by bhsportsguy on Oct 27, 2009 4:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
On a completely unrelated note
Beatles Rock Band is awesome.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh man,
I have really been meaning to get ahold of that. I don’t have a rock band myself, but several of my friends do, so it would be worth it if I buy it to play on their rock bands. Some of my friends would be seeing a lot of me in that case.
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I rented the game first, and it is cool. You can have up to 3 people sing at once (depending on the song). Only thing that sucks is there aren’t many songs to unlock (maybe 3 at most, I forget) so you have to buy the others (there are 43 or 45 I believe on the game)
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you start out with 45 songs including unlockable ones
and then you can buy additional song disc’? Is the whole Apple catalog available?
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you have to download them through XBox live
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know what I am asking for at Hannukah now.
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just looked it up
Full album of Abbey Road is available now. Sgt. Peppers and Rubber Soul will be made available over the next few months.
But it doesn’t look like the full catalog will be released.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fucking sweet man.
Abbey Road and Rubber Soul and Sgt. Peppers sounds like many a late beer drinking night pretending to be a rock star.
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So basically
Unless Frank bought the team with his own money, or can find investors to buy Jamie out, a sale is almost unavoidable.
by pdotmac1 on Oct 27, 2009 4:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have not read the document all the way through - its 137 pages
But my read of it seems to be that she wants to be reinstated, have her expensese paid for the foreseeable future and remain co-owner of the team.
by bhsportsguy on Oct 27, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So she wants a divorce, but still wants to work for Frank?
That would be pretty odd
by pdotmac1 on Oct 27, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With not for might be the operative word.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
much like last week’s Big Bang Theory!
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what they say
It’s nice to want things.
She’s not the owner of the team (as far as MLB is concerned) and you are saying that she possibly signed an agreement which may show the team is Frank’s sole property.
She’s negotiating from a position of weakness, and she should try to arrangea deal (and the one proposed above aint it.)
by mwhite06 on Oct 27, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are not enough assets to go 50/50 without dividing the team.
The only question is whether they sell, she gets partial ownership with Frank as primary owner, or Frank gets partial ownership with her in charge.
by Cool Dudes on Oct 27, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Would Make the Christmas Parties Really Fun Now Wouldn't It
If they do keep the team, it sounds like it will be more like a child custody battle.
OK, I get Tommy for Christmas and New Years, and you get Torre for Halloween and the 4th of July.
by Cool Dudes on Oct 27, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“As fun a read as ‘The Mitchell Report’”
-raves Entertainment Weekly
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like she wants to be reinstated, which leads me to believe she wants all the “non Dodgers” stuff split 50/50. My guess is that if she is not reinstated that she uses the nuke bomb option, which is to liquidate the team.
vr, Xei
by Xeifrank on Oct 27, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
in the document she asserts
that the total net worth is 1.2bn, of which 800m is the dodgers.
from what i understand, most of their assets were created or acquired during the time they were married. so her take could be as high as 600m. Are you saying she would only want 50/50 of the 400m, and thus only asking for 200m? That would be 1/3 of what she might be entitled to.
by LA Taco on Oct 27, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Way
She will go for half of everything as she is entitled. Sounds like she is just trying to preserve her ownership perks for whatever time they both own the Dodgers.
Whether you think they are silly or not, these are the benefits of ownership and she wants to make sure she gets her share as long as they co-own the team. In the negotiations she could say like, OK I don’t need these perks but I get an extra mansion and stuff like that.
by Cool Dudes on Oct 27, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am by no means an expert, just playing monday morning QB per say. I guess what I meant to say, (given the numbers you stated above) is that of the $400M they’d each get half. The Dodgers would not be sold, there would be some kind of agreement not to sell them, or at worst case for Mrs McCourt she would get half of the proceeds to any sale of the Dodgers on top of her $200M. But Frank would be the one who decided if the team got sold or not. I think she’d go along with this if Frank reinstated all of her cushy jobs.
vr, Xei
by Xeifrank on Oct 27, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As Michael Corlelone said
Its business not personal. And that is how I read their marriage at this point.
by bhsportsguy on Oct 27, 2009 4:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And this was such a good prospect thread
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 4:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's a divorce court high-jacking!!!
Sad arnold drummond is sad ;-(
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Oct 27, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatchu talkin’ bout, (Maury) Wills?
by Eric Stephen on Oct 27, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well played, sir!
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Oct 27, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may be forced to create a new section called “Gossip” for the McCourt “news” that we will all pooh-pooh talking about, yet not ignore.
by David Young on Oct 27, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lebron just rejected Rondo while Rondo was running the fast break
I miss the NBA
by PHAT JULIO on Oct 27, 2009 4:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What’s the over/under on home losses for the Cavs this year?
vr, Xei
by Xeifrank on Oct 27, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know
But I’m going to say 5. The last home game may not be important.
by PHAT JULIO on Oct 27, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i say less
Shaq makes them a better regular season team. Not too sure about his impact in the playoffs, but I could see them challenging 70 wins
Has there ever been a player better than Detlef Schrempf?
by bucknellbruin on Oct 27, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It all starts tonight with the ring
ceremony. I remember one year on opening day they gave all fans a plastic replica of the WC ring. It was silly but cool. I lost mine somehow and was upset and some lady gave me hers since she could see I was bummed I’d lost my silly plastic ring.
by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
I had a similar story. But instead of the ring, it was a bobblehead :)
by PHAT JULIO on Oct 27, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This thread is awesome,it has everything
Prospect talk, arguments, McCourt Divorce battle, Matthewmafa being Matthewmafa, and do I see Mel Gibson pulling his beard?
by PHAT JULIO on Oct 27, 2009 5:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The worth or worthlessness of Juan Pierre
Yes this thread pretty much sums everything up.
This post should be donated to the Smithsonian.
by Cool Dudes on Oct 27, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now all we need is for that Stillnotah8ter dude to show up
and talk some of his jive.
by Ian Capilouto on Oct 27, 2009 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lakers' 2009 ring
Has there been a ring with more bling than that?
by Julio Nievas on Oct 27, 2009 5:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
the one the lakers are about to win this year.,.
by matthewmafa on Oct 27, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard part of the ceremony on the radio driving back from my softball game. I heard they had many of the players back from the previous titles. Was there any mention or tribute to Chick Hearn?
vr, Xei
by Xeifrank on Oct 27, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Artest
that’s some funky haircut that Artest has. Not sure what it says. I was going to ask my wife to translate the characters on the left side of his head, but I need a still picture as she has no interest in watching long enough to get a good view of it during the live feed.
vr, Xei
by Xeifrank on Oct 27, 2009 8:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Eovaldi
I hate to say this, but maybe he should be removed from the next few polls. His vote totals say he has virtually no support whatsoever.
by silverwidow on Oct 28, 2009 6:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
if you remove his first bad month of the season
he has the best stats era wise of any of our prospects… he is very underrated… i think he is not a top 5 prospect but defintly top 10
by matthewmafa on Oct 28, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
when has azl not been a experiment league
it’s a complex league, they play in front of scouts maybe lol
by kensai on Oct 29, 2009 2:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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