Ethier has cost the Dodgers 35.6 runs with the glove.

Ethier has cost the Dodgers 35.6 runs with the glove.

A Fangraphs story on Andre Ethier's defense

3 months ago David Young 18 comments 0 recs |

Comments

I did pick the most titillating quote, but whether you agree or disagree, it’s an interesting fangraphs article on Andre Ethier defensively. I don’t know who could come in to be the RF, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Andre in LF in 2011 (post-Manny) if a credible upgrade in RF happens.

by David Young on Oct 30, 2009 2:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

First of all, let’s look at the biggest component of the statistic: range. Ethier showed fantastic range in 2007 after showing average range in 2006. His range fell off a cliff then in 2008 and 2009, at -6.6 and -6.9 runs, respectively.

Someone else mentioned this here before but….

What started happening in 2008 compared to 2006 and 2007? The Dodgers got a much, much better defensive CF. Perhaps this is a weakness of UZR; since Kemp can get to more balls than Pierre did, Ethier’s range looks worse.

by Michael White on Oct 30, 2009 2:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Good catch

by Eric Stephen on Oct 30, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think a fangraphs commenter also made that point.

But there is another difference. Ethier used to play LF also.

% of time in LF:
2007: ~30%
2008: ~24%
2009: 0%

But I like your point. If either can get it, you want Ethier over Pierre, but Kemp over Ethier, because of the arm.

by David Young on Oct 30, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right field or left field would be irrelevant for determining range, no?

by Michael White on Oct 30, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn’t UZR a comparison to league/MLB average? I imaging the average LF is worse than the average RF defensively.

by David Young on Oct 31, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Things like this are why I still don't totally trust UZR

There is a lot of variation in players from year to year because its adjusted to an average each year. If you look at Ethier’s range factor (a bad stat for sure, but not normalized to league average) over the last three years it shows he is worse in right than left, but he has been basically consistent over that time. I think Ethier’s bad UZR might be somewhat accurate, but the significance of that negative number might be exaggerated by some other factors.

by prosellis on Oct 31, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alright but anecdotally . . .

when I watch Ethier go back on a ball, it looks like he’s trying to sprint through a swamp. He moves in slow motion. He made a play in the NLDS (I forget who hit it) but Etheir fielded it cleanly and then crashed into the wall. He makes that play 2 out of 10 times during the regular season. I’ve seen him mis judge balls over his head and balls carom off his glove as he crashes into the wall way more times than him cleanly field a ball over his head.

Dear LORD! I read the above and I’m apparently turning into Joe Morgan. Here, I’ll do better – I am unaware of a defensive metric called, “ability to field balls hit behind you” but I’m sure Ethier’s abysmal performance in that metric accounts for the lion’s share of runs allowed. I figure his arm’s average for right field.

One of the commenters on fangraphs.com said Ethier is basically Shawn Green. I remember Green at least having a rocket arm.

by Seanny Rotten on Nov 1, 2009 9:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

basically shawn green

shawn green was a Great player

by matthewmafa on Nov 1, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

If Ethier is ultimately remembered as Shawn Green that will be just fine with me….

by Michael White on Nov 1, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah that would be fine. Shawn Green’s Dodger career was like Wedding Crashers: a very strong start (back to back 154 OPS+, 91 total HR in years 2 & 3) but ultimately a disappointing ending (not horrible, but injuries led to an erosion of skills and he was being paid too much by then). Still, overall a fun experience.

by Eric Stephen on Nov 2, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Considering Raul Mondesi (who, of course was traded for Green) tanked shortly after leaving LA, the Mondy/Green combo in RF was quite good for a number of seasons.

by David Young on Nov 2, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That really was quite a trade. We had a good run dealing with our friends in Toronto for a bit.

by Eric Stephen on Nov 2, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It was that nagging torn labrum,

that he never ever opted to get surgery for. It’s what turned him from a 40hr/yr player to a 20 hr/yr player.

by Seanny Rotten on Nov 2, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

scratch that

he got the “clean it out” surgery as opposed to the more experimental “rebuild it” surgery.

by Seanny Rotten on Nov 2, 2009 8:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This should show us that Manny's replacement should be able to field

I wonder if Ethier’s numbers were any better with Juan in LF instead of Manny.

With Pierre in left, I don’t remember, but I don’t think Matt cheated more to right, but why not?

With Manny in left and Ethier in right, Matt really has no where to cheat. I do seem to have remembered a lot of balls to the gap which you were hoping were going to be caught, but Ethier not even coming close. That being said, I think he isn’t as good as a CF playing right, but good enough for right, it would be nice to have a better LF and Matt play closer to Ethier’s gap though.

by Cool Dudes on Nov 2, 2009 3:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs