Clippings from around the Dodger Blogosphere
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 10:31 AM PST
in Media
178 comments
Dodger Offensive Predictions for 2010 from CHONE by Sean Smith
I’m not going to single anyone out, since we’re all guilty of abusing FanGraphs’ Wins Above Replacement metric. But I’ve been seeing cases pop up…
Memories Of Kevin Malone: Bill Belichick And Dumb People
The MSTI 16-Step 2010 plan " Mike Scioscia’s tragic illness
Happy blast from the past | Dodger Thoughts | Los Angeles Times
I was able to get a glimpse of the MLB Network's rebroadcast of Ramon Martinez's 18-strikeout game, and two things struck me. 1) Martinez's stuff was electric. 2) So was his smile. Martinez got all 18 of his strikeouts before...
Pedro Guerrero " Cardboard Gods
Josh Wilker - Haven't linked to Josh for a while but here he is writing about one of my favorite Dodgers.
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If history is any indication
Chris Withrow should get an invite to major league spring training. Typically, the Dodgers bring their top pitching prospect to camp three years after they’ve been drafted (except in the case of Kershaw, who forced his way in after two years).
Billingsley: Drafted 2003, first camp 2006
Elbert: Drafted 2004, first camp 2007
Kershaw: Drafted 2006, first camp 2008
Withrow: Drafted 2007, first camp 2010?
by silverwidow on Nov 16, 2009 10:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I would fully expect
the ROY in 2010 rotation to be invited to camp:)
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
DeJesus gets an automatic invite since he’ll be on the 40-man roster this Friday.
by silverwidow on Nov 16, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
An old story about Pedro Guerrero that you may not have read or heard before, because it hasn’t been floating around for very long. As far as I can tell, this Sept. 29, 2009 Deadspin article is the first time and place it was written down.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 10:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I remember that link
I guess the clubhouse was a tad more interesting back in those days. The 1988 team must have be an interesting mix before they traded Pedro, with Gibby and Pedro in that small space.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, what a jerk.
I am surprised that none of the players got into an altercation with him over that. If someone did that where I was at, we would have some words. I would probably get my ass kicked over it though.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Pedro was the model for Serrano in Major League?
By the way, has anyone noticed that Serrano is the same actor who does those All-State commercials?
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What an asshole
I remember Pedro as a supreme jerk during those days (saying FU to kids asking autographs, that sorta thing) but didn’t know it stooped to this level. Things like this also explain why he was traded away in the middle of a championship season. Never understood it at the time but now it makes sense, the dude was cancer.
by Capt Obvious on Nov 17, 2009 12:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
4th & 3rd in their respective leagues
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
mmm.... Ok
Surprised that Happ ran away from Hanson on 2nd place…
by Julio Nievas on Nov 16, 2009 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ROY is based, at least partially, on what the player actually achieves and quantity matters. Happ threw about 33% more innings that Hanson – about 80% of a full starter’s season vs. 60% – and that makes a difference with the BBWAA. It’s not the “which rookie will be the better player in the long run” award, it’s the “Rookie of the Year” award.
Playing for the NL champs probably didn’t hurt his recognition factor either.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha ha. I wrote that before seeing the similar AL CYA discussion below!
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
AL CYA
Zack Greinke or King Felix?
by Julio Nievas on Nov 16, 2009 11:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Writers’ vote: Greinke
My vote: King Felix
by silverwidow on Nov 16, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Outside of 3 more wins, what did Felix do better than Greinke in 2009?
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s younger, has better stuff, and this was the year it all came together.
by silverwidow on Nov 16, 2009 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This wasn’t the year that it all came together for Greinke too?
by Michael White on Nov 16, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Greinke "put it all together" much better than Felix did in 2009
The Cy Young Award isn’t “who will be better over the next 5 years” or “who will have the better career.” It is for the best pitcher for 2009, and that is all.
Record
Felix 19-5
Greinke 16-8
ERA
Greinke 2.16
Felix 2.49
ERA+
Greinke 205
Felix 174
Only 15 American League pitchers in history have put up a 200 ERA+ in 200 or more innings.
FIP
Greinke 2.42
Felix 3.18
x-FIP
Greinke 3.36
Felix 3.60
IP
Felix 238.2
Greinke 229.1
K/9
Greinke 9.5
Felix 8.2
BB/9
Greinke 2.0
Felix 2.7
HR/9
Greinke 0.4
Felix 0.6
WAR
Greinke 9.4
Felix 6.9
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Felix had a great year of course, and in almost any other year he would be the easy favorite for the CYA but he just happened to run into historic competition this year.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow that's a pretty impressive ERA+
Nothing tops Pedro’s 2000 though (ERA+ of 291 !!! Are effin kidding me?!?!)
by Julio Nievas on Nov 16, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I started looking up the stats to make this argument. You did it much better than I had envisioned doing it. Well done.
by Michael White on Nov 16, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, Greinke is the clear winner when the stats are examined. But it’s also true that statistical leaders don’t always win these awards. Not saying Greinke won’t, but my personal criteria (where age/stuff is a big factor) gives it to Felix. But that’s why I don’t have a vote.
by silverwidow on Nov 16, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Felix had 27 wins or something similar to 1990 Bob Welch, you might have something.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m trying to wrap my head around this logic…how does having the better “stuff” (which is of course debatable) outweigh performance when determining who had the better year this season?
I can understand it when trying to project going forward, but Felix’s age and/or stuff doesn’t really matter in terms of who was better in 2009.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think age does matter because to me, a 23-year-old putting up a 174 OPS+ in the major leagues is about as impressive a feat as they come. And when the stuff matches the stats (like it did in 2009), it’s an easy call. Again, this is just my personal thinking and I don’t expect anyone to really follow it.
by silverwidow on Nov 16, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
At least at this blog it gets limited to your comment itself!
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see why age would factor into CYA?
by LA Taco on Nov 16, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The prosecution rests
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There was never a trial. I could have just said Felix is my pick and left it at that. But I’m someone who believes in explaining the thought process behind an opinion, as contrarian as it might be. I like grey areas and don’t always view baseball in black or white.
by silverwidow on Nov 16, 2009 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
out of topic but analyzing the numbers above
when i was a kid I remember my mom been very happy about the dodges signing Kevin Brown.
Whoa didn’t know he punch out 16 astros in the playoffs outdueling randy johnson. Also discovered that he was the 4th overall pick in the 1986 draft.
He had some NASTy numbers.
ah the good days of curt shilling, randy johnson, pedro martinez, roger clemens and Kevin Brown. In my book he was worth the gamble.
by hirambocachica on Nov 16, 2009 12:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I was a big Kevin Brown fan too
He was expensive, but at least he was good. I don’t mind when good players get paid. It’s the $60MM for Juan Pierre that drives me crazy.
by Michael White on Nov 16, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He was good when he wasn't hurt.
Durability in pitchers is big for me these days. But, I do like a gamble every now and then on an arm like Brown’s. He also seemed to bring a shitty attitude to the clubhouse which bothered me too. He looked like a complete tool when broke his hand punching a wall.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't the hand punching happen in New York?
Brown wasn’t hurt that much. At least compared to his contemporaries on the Dodgers like Dreifort.
by Michael White on Nov 16, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah when he was a Yankee he punched the wall.
I remember once my uncle and I got some nice comp tickets field level for a game he was pitching. They were working him out right in front of us before the game started. I remember being amazed out the veins bursting from his neck and arms. He had such big forearms. It was freaky. Compared to Dreifort, he wasn’t hurt that much. I always felt really sad for Dreifort more than anything.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ditto on Dreifort
I liked him too. Tons of talent.
by Michael White on Nov 16, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I watched Dreifort
beat Todd Van Poppel and hit two (2) MONSTROUS CF home runs. It was crazy.
by Seanny Rotten on Nov 17, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what's so frustrating
about Dreifort. Shit tons of talent, was compared equally to A-Rod in the draft, but just never put it together. Only had 1 season with an ERA below 4, and that was as a reliever.
by Capt Obvious on Nov 17, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to put it together when you’re constantly coming back from an injury.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 17, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's true
and also true even when relatively healthy, he sucked (98-00 seasons).
by Capt Obvious on Nov 17, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
his teammates
were angel pena and hiram bocachica
by hirambocachica on Nov 16, 2009 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't stand Brown
great pitcher for the Dodgers, good contract, just couldn’t stand him. When Sheff and Brown were on the team together I had little interest in the DOdgers being successful.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I feel you on that. They had the ability of making winning
not very fun.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How long was that contract for?
I am guessing that John Lackey runs into a major shoulder issue this year because of his last two years starting off on the disabled list with a shoulder problem. My guess is that it is getting harder for his shoulder to recover after the season and then even harder to start up again.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brown signed for 7 years, $105 million
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dodgers traded Brown after 5 though for Jeff Weaver, whom they had to pay “just” $12.5m to put up two solid seasons.
So for $87.5m (plus whatever the cost of those first class tickets for Brown and his family) the Dodgers got 1316.2 innings in 7 years (188 IP/yr) with an ERA+ of about 127.
Plus the Dodgers also got Yhency “Ghame Over” Brazoban, Andrew Brown (traded for Milton Bradley, twice), and Brandon Weeden in the deal.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How did pitch 1316.2 innings in 7 years
if he was traded after 5 years? I am confused.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, I see.
You combined Brown and Weaver’s numbers.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Dodgers definitely "sold high" on Brown
couldn’t have timed that any better.
by Michael White on Nov 16, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you can call getting
Jeff Weaver “selling high”:)
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dock Ellis was no longer an active player, unfortunately.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe the Dodgers also got $10M from the Yankees, so the dollar total for those performances lowers to $77.5M.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They got $3m
$1.5 for each year of Weaver. I included that in the totals.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how I got it in my head that it was $10M.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 3:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That Andrew Brown
has been around the trading block a few times.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So 3 1/2 good years on 7 year contract is a good contract?
I would say it was a mediocre contract at best. The best move the Dodgers made with that contract was getting rid of it before the bottom dropped out.
They certainly could have done worse (see AJ) but I would not call that a good contract.
I think the contract seemed even worse than it was because Brown only seemed to pitch well when the Dodgers sucked.
by Cool Dudes on Nov 16, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the contract seemed even worse than it was because Brown only seemed to pitch well when the Dodgers sucked
I do not believe this statement
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He was injured the years we had a competitive team.
by Cool Dudes on Nov 16, 2009 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The 2003 Dodgers didn’t suck. They won 85 games. Brown also pitched 211 innings and posted an ERA+ of 169.
Perhaps the problem was the fact that team was one of the worst offensive teams in baseball history. Daryle Ward OPS+ of 9!
by Michael White on Nov 16, 2009 3:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Loosing division to arcckk, SF by 15.5 games
= suck
No way around it.
by Cool Dudes on Nov 16, 2009 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand. So not only is Kevin Brown being criticized for being good when his team is bad, he is now being criticized for being good when his team is bad and the other team in the division had 1 of the 5 best players in baseball history having an insane season (OPS+ of 231) and beating the Dodgers in the division by 15 games by winning a mere 100 games.
by Michael White on Nov 16, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Crazy talk
You can’t punish a guy for being good on a bad team.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The only season Brown’s performance sucked was 2002, when he was injured. I suppose Steve Carlton sucked in 1972 when he put up a 182 ERA+ (over 346 1/3 IP!) and was credited with 27 wins for a 59-win Phillies team. Besides, mid-80 win teams do not suck; they are not great, but they do not suck. The aforementioned 59-win team, that is sucking.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just looked it up and confirmed
110 Wins= Legendary
100 Wins = Great
90 Wins = Good
80 Wins = Sucks
70 Wins = Sucks Eggs
60 Wins = Suck Ass
50 Wins = Super sucktacteria mega lame
40 Wins = Sucks the puss out of a dead dogs balls
by Cool Dudes on Nov 16, 2009 9:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Brown
One of my favorites growing up. I remember my sister taking me to a game when we were facing the Marlins a couple of days before my sister’s birthday in May. Boring offensively, but Brown was amazing. I don’t know how he was in the clubhouse, but It was a joy for me to watch Kevin Brown pitch. Kinda frustrating though living through his injuries and all..
by Julio Nievas on Nov 16, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That era of Dodgers baseball was hard to take for me
because they had traded Mike Piazza away who was by far my favorite player in baseball for Gary Sheffield and had signed Kevin Brown. It felt like they had punched me in the gut. Piazza was everything an 18 year old could want out of a baseball player; he had the numbers, a sweet ’stache, and listened to a lot of music I was into back then, namely metal.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 2:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Personal feelings
Interesting topic. I remember Brown and Shawn Green very fondly because I was going through my own personal baseball renaissance at that time. I was just finishing up my teenage years where I was “too cool” for sports and starting the throw myself back into baseball and football. Plus, at this point I was starting to be more discriminating with evaluating players. Eric Karros was the guy who everybody liked and I really didn’t understand why. I didn’t embrace advanced statistics yet, but I was starting to question whether the guys that everybody said was good (Karros) really was and the guy that everybody said wasn’t worth the money (Brown) if he was worth the money. Brown, to me, was the guy that came into L.A with the bad publicity and the contract in excess of $100MM and I embraced him for what he was, a really good pitcher.
by Michael White on Nov 16, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I was too cool for sports for a while.
But I secretly was into them when no one was looking. I always liked Shawn Green a lot. The whole Jewish thing I thought was cool even though it really isn’t a big deal, but you do identify with those you perceive as similar to you, right? Brown essentially gave the Dodgers 3 good years out of 5, which I guess is ok, but if he was never traded, that would have been 3 out of 7 which isn’t so good. Just for fun, what do you think would happen if in his prime career Eric Karros was in last years lineup playing first base?
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 3:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
1999 Eric Karros would have been nice. That was definitely his best year (OPS of .912) which would have been a great upgrade from James Loney. That being said, I doubt the result would have been different. Even with Loney, the Dodgers had the best record in the NL, so its impossible for there to have been an improvement on the regular season result. As for the playoffs, Loney was hardly the problem (his OPS in the PHI series was 1.127) so I think the same result would have happened.
Now, if the Dodgers had Kevin Brown in his prime….
by Michael White on Nov 16, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Karros v Loney OPS+
Karros -- age - Loney
106 -— 24 -— 103
88 -— 25 -— 104
Karros put up a 95 OPS+ at age 26, the same age Loney will be in 2010
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
From ages 26-28
the same time we have Loney under contract, Karros put up a combined 120 OPS+, which included 1995, his best season (145 OPS+).
I would love it if Loney matched (or came close) to that.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, I was just putting together my own
little Loney and Karros comparison but stopped when you adeptly did better than I could. Thanks for the info.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I always felt bad for Karros because I really liked him as a player, but he happened to be my personal poster child for advanced statistics. Those (five out of six) 30/100 years weren’t all they were cracked up to be.
I still remember the near-murderous look in both my brothers’ eyes as I said something like “Eric Karros sucks” (I was laying it on pretty thick, I admit). :)
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I distinctly remember being the typical fanboi at that time, that thought EK was great and didn’t get all the arguments against him, for all the age-old reasons (he’s a 100 RBI guy man! He’s great!). Wasn’t until a few years later I realized how little I knew at the time.
Fortunately I was only about 14-15 at the time, so I had an excuse for not really grasping advanced metrics.
by EMDarrow on Nov 16, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I knew Karras
was overrated I was still shocked to find that Wes Parkers 1960’s seasons compared with Karros when I was doing my Win Share comparisons. Which due to underwhelming demand will be back.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I did once win a massive $3 from one of my friends in 2000 or somewhere around then when, at a game, I got 3-to-1 odds that Karros would ground into a double play. :)
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I once got 8-to-1 odds from a former co-worker on the 2004 NBA Finals. Bet was $15 on the Pistons.
by silverwidow on Nov 16, 2009 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
although kudos on the great gambling win :)
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 3:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, that Laker team was very overrated. :)
by silverwidow on Nov 16, 2009 3:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Malone Was Injured
Not fair! He was the Defense. No Malone = too many easy layups.
by Cool Dudes on Nov 16, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I too still cling to the idea that if Malone was healthy the Lakers would have won that series.
But at least the Mailman never got his title (silver lining).
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That was the only season I would have accepted a Laker win
Boo for hating Karl.
by jaffa on Nov 16, 2009 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or the Lakers could have just thrown the ball to Shaq in the paint every play
instead of Kobe going nuts and chucking the ball every possesion.
by Michael White on Nov 16, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would they want to utilize that advantage? :)
I still remember Phil Jackson lamenting losing Game 4, when Shaq had a vintage 36-20 game. He said something like “we wasted a great performance,” or something to that effect.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
The one game the Lakers won, this is how they won it. But that was too easy, why bother when Kobe could go 1 on 3 in a vain effort trying to draw fouls when the refs swallowed their whistles on the Laker end of the court.
by Capt Obvious on Nov 17, 2009 12:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure the Spurs would have beat Detroit
We would not have beat Spurs without Karl either.
Bad match up and no Karl and fat Shaq = no ring :(
by Cool Dudes on Nov 16, 2009 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pistons had no answer for Shaq
Fat or not. Losing Karl hurt, but Lakers still had an advantage that they squandered.
by Capt Obvious on Nov 17, 2009 12:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All Pistons finals victories over the Lakers are due to Laker injuries!
As if Isiah Thomas and crew were going to win a ring over the 88-89 Lakers. But Scott was lost for the entire finals, then Magic went down….
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Still
one legged Isiah put on one of the greatest games I’ve ever seen.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Isiah is the most overrated NBA player of all time. I refuse to give him any credit.
What backcourt was guarding him at that point? Wes Matthews and David Rivers??
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
basketball-reference sucks compared to baseball-reference.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My recollection
is that he made shot after shot with players chasing him all over the court. I think you are letting your GM Thomas influence your player Thomas. I’m not just talking about one game but his career in general was very impressive.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 4:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He would have been nothing without Joe Dumars and the big boys banging up front. (I hated those Piston teams as much as I hated the Celtics.)
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You and Coop
He still has red in his eyes when he talks about them on channel 7.
by Cool Dudes on Nov 16, 2009 4:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can see this is a
hatred that objective reason will not have an audience.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. There’s very little I hate. I have to cling to the Isiah Thomases and Danny Ainges of my memories.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
bill laimbeer too?
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
by shaqfor3 on Nov 16, 2009 11:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but that just means we sucked because we wern't durable
I was taking offense to the “overrated” comment.
Like saying the current Lakers are “overrated” because they dropped 3 already.
by Cool Dudes on Nov 16, 2009 4:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was sort of agreeing with you by pointing to another of example of the Pistons triumphing via opponent injury.
But I don’t see how blowing hamstrings speaks to durability. Shit happens.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Its Just Bad Luck, It Means Nothing
Its the only way I can feel superior to anyone in the NBA though, I’ve never blown a hamstring, had a groin pull, or blown a knee :).
by Cool Dudes on Nov 16, 2009 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if we had magic and scott healthy
the pistons might have won anyway cause they were just that good
but it would been a much longer series…
1991 – also a series cut short due to the injuries for scott and worthy
oh yeah and in 04
malone went down (that was a very depressing series to watch)
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
by shaqfor3 on Nov 16, 2009 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
we shoulda taken at least 1 game in detroit!
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
by shaqfor3 on Nov 16, 2009 11:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
kobes shot jacking didnt help though :(
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
by shaqfor3 on Nov 16, 2009 11:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably saved his life
The way those games were being called, they could’ve just as easily mobbed him and had Big Ben do a pile driver or three on him and the refs wouldn’t have called anything.
by Capt Obvious on Nov 17, 2009 1:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That season kind of began the end of my Laker fanddom
I just couldn’t root for Malone on Payton on the Lakers. Once I realized I didn’t like the players on my own team it kind of snowballed from there. Now I get zero enjoyment out of their success. It was like that with me and the Dodgers during the Fox/Sheffield/Brown years but I pulled out of it when Fox sold the team.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like every single one of them now.
Maybe there’s still hope for you.
If you watch some of those Shannon Brown dunks, it might cure you.
I honestly don’t think there’s a more entertaining team to watch.
by Cool Dudes on Nov 16, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that seemed like a very yankeeish deal to me
it probably built more hate towards the lakers
especially since they got karl malone (a lot of people hated him)
and made it more enjoyable for the opposing fans to see them collapse in the finals…bleh (very sad)
no one could stay healthy that season
at one point malone, shaq, and kobe were down at the same time…
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
by shaqfor3 on Nov 16, 2009 11:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I lost a 2-1 bet on that series.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
bastard :)
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
by shaqfor3 on Nov 16, 2009 11:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We were warned at Angel Stadium
for making bets like that this last season. At Comiskey, US Cellular, everybody was loving it when my friends and I were gambling like that. It was interesting to see the difference between two regions.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The key is to not turn your section into the equivalent of a cock fight. Gotta be discrete. :)
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, tell me about it.
It is just one guy in our group who loves being loud and drunk.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to make a joke referencing Dodger Stadium and the troughs, but I thought better of it.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pedro
in the troughs would have been a dangerous gambit. I wonder how he and Maddux would have gotten along?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I embraced him for what he was, a really good pitcher.
My brothers taught me never to embrace a dick.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
None would top Phil’s anyway. Well played.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just read on Brown's Wikipedia page
that he pulled a gun on his neighbor in 2006 because the guyn accidently dropped some leaves or something on his yard.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 3:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
News article of that incident.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
KInd of have to agree with K Brown
on this one, throwing your trash into a neighbors yard is a justifiable homicide.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well it is in Macon, Georgia.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That team name should always be said with Don Adams’ voice. Macon Whoopee, you’re the greatest!
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This must be some obscure reference from a movie?
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cartoons! Tennessee Tuxedo. Unfortunately that clip ends just a bit before the line that I referenced above that always ended these encounters.
Don Adams is most famous for being the original Maxwell Smart though.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 4:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I enjoyed my Nick at Nite dose
of Green Acres followed by Get Smart very much when I was a kid. Thanks for the link. Always love a classic cartoon.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 4:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I was going to say,
the article makes it sound like his neighbor was an asshole. The funny part of it is that Brown states that several neighbors around him throw trash into his yard. Maybe meeting Kevin Brown makes youwant to punch him in the face or throw grass onto his yard. What a weird neighborhood of people.
by Ian Capilouto on Nov 16, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
get off the dude’s lawn!!
by Capt Obvious on Nov 17, 2009 1:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hey its kevin brown!
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
by shaqfor3 on Nov 16, 2009 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He turns out to be middle name person; he was born James Kevin Brown. I believe his signature song was “Papa’s Got a Brand New Bag o’ Money”
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 11:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
MLBTR posted a “Vernon Wells Extension Reactions” post earlier. A classic by Gammons. Funniest part though were the MLBTR commenters on the signing. check them out :), and don’t forget to check out bsox21’s comments.
by Julio Nievas on Nov 16, 2009 12:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This comment caught my eye
To settle your argument between who is better between Beltran and Wells: Andruw Jones is way better, so why are you even debating those two?
Posted by: beeniez | December 15, 2006 at 09:40 AM
Bad timing by beeniez; 2007 ended up the beginning of Jones’ downturn, though no one was predicting it at the time.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 1:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Except for
D4P and Rob McMillin
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought they were predicting that after 2007, not before. Plenty of folks pointed at 2007 as a warning sign for the 2008 season signing; I thought 2007 was going to be an outlier, and I was wrong.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You be right
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 4:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely agree with the THT article on WAR
particularly this bit which we were basically debating last week regarding Martin
Do not place undue trust in WAR for catchers. How much of a catcher’s value do you think is in his defense? I’ll give you a hint: it’s a lot. FanGraphs has unfortunately yet to give an effort to quantifying this vital aspect of the game, other than with the positional adjustment. In fact, catchers should possibly be considered a separate group of players with a separate replacement level and therefore be treated as different from all other position players.
by Michael White on Nov 16, 2009 12:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
My favorite was this
5. Do not use the linear conversion of WAR to salary to determine what a team should be willing to pay a free agent. Every team has a different scale, depending on that team’s market and where the team is on the win curve. Few teams should pay $5 million for a single win.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've added the
CHONE offensive predictions to the clippings.
Quickly
Manny – settling down into < .900 OPS
Martin – bounce back to .400 slug%, still below .800 OPS
AJ Ellis – interesting – not as bad as Kensai would suggest. They suggest almost a .700 OPS. Best performance among all the Dodger minor leaguer players in 2009.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 1:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What would you consider an acceptable OPS from a backup catcher, if you considered a backup catcher as some one who must start at least 30 games a season (or more) to prevent your primary catcher from wearing down?
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on the defense
If he really sucked as a catcher then he better be able to hit like Greg Zaun, if he was Yadier Molina behind the plate then my offensive expectations would be different. Kind of the same for a starting catcher really, it all depends on their total game.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yikes
Not a single .300 hitter for OPS >.900
by Julio Nievas on Nov 16, 2009 1:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Eric is working on this
but we have all the predictions from last year so we can compare the different sites to see how they graded related to the Dodgers.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll have something up later tonight
by Eric Stephen on Nov 16, 2009 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Andrew Lambo
Just saw this comment by John Sickels (minorleagueball.com) in regards to seeing Lambo in the AFL. Not sure how much to read into it, but I generally like reading his grades and scouting reports…
" lambo
Frankly he looked like "just a guy" to me…slower and not as athletic as I’d been led to expect, not a great swing.
by BFDC on Nov 16, 2009 1:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
From True Blue L.A.
Andrew Lambo, Los Angeles Dodgers: Lambo had a rough year upon promotion to Double-A, which he attributed more to pitch selection than issues with his swing. I thought he was a bit overrated when I saw him at the AFL last year. I do think he has a nice batting stroke, but he may wind up being just a fourth outfielder.
Trayvon Robinson, Los Angeles Dodgers: He showed power and speed in repeating the high Class A California League this season, hitting .300 with 17 homers and 47 steals. He also struck out 143 times. Still, he’s just 22 and a very good athlete with a good swing and bat speed, and should at least be on your radar screen as we see how he handles the transition to Double-A next year.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4660692&name=grey_jason
by Tripon on Nov 16, 2009 5:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Add Jason Grey
to the list of those umimpressed with Andrew Lambo.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Nov 16, 2009 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably A List...
…not too different than the list of people unimpressed with Matt Kemp in the AFL. I think people were still talking about Ethier as a fourth outfielder at age 25 or 26.
by CanuckDodger on Nov 16, 2009 9:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
But Ethier was a 4th outfielder at 25-26. 2007, 2008, that was his role until mid summer.
by Tripon on Nov 16, 2009 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ethier
I meant people talked about him as being only GOOD ENOUGH to be a fourth outfielder, regardless of whether other outfielders might be blocking him on a roster.
by CanuckDodger on Nov 16, 2009 9:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also my immediate reaction.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 16, 2009 11:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
u can have the perfect grades and still lose hehe
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
by shaqfor3 on Nov 16, 2009 11:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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