Don Mattingly has no professional managerial experience. Is this a consideration for current baseball GMs?

by David Young on Nov 6, 2009 4:34 PM PST in Research Comment 22 comments

Joe Torre telepathically tells Don Mattingly that he didn't have any professional managing experience before he got his first MLB managing gig.

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The topic of the moment at Dodger Thoughts is manager heir-apparent Don Mattingly and whether or not his lack of professional managing experience is an issue. At some point it occurred to me that it would be pertinent to examine the thirty current major league managers and the experience they brought to the job when they were hired. Perhaps this could give us an idea of how baseball general managers look at managing experience.

		Experience
Team	Manager	MLB	MiLB
CHW	Ozzie Guillen	0	0
ARI	A. J. Hinch	0	0
SDP	Bud Black	0	0
NYY	Joe Girardi	1	0
TOR	Cito Gaston	10	0
CIN	Dusty Baker	14	0
CHC	Lou Piniella	20	0
LAD	Joe Torre	26	0
LAA	Mike Scioscia	0	1
TEX	Ron Washington	0	2
NYM	Jerry Manuel	6	2
STL	Tony LaRussa	18	2
MIN	Ron Gardenhire	0	3
SEA	Don Wakamatsu	0	3
MIL	Ken Macho	4	3
TBR	Joe Maddon	0	4
BOS	Terry Francona	4	4
SFG	Bruce Bochy	12	4
DET	Jim Leyland	14	4
OAK	Bob Geren	0	5
ATL	Bobby Cox	8	6
CLE	Manny Acta	2	7
COL	Jim Tracy	7	7
WAS	Jim Riggleman	9	8
FLA	Fredi Gonzalez	0	9
PIT	John Russell	0	9
PHI	Charlie Manuel	3	9
HOU	Brad Mills	0	11
KCR	Trey Hillman	0	12
BAL	Dave Trembley	0	19

Notes:
Experience is in seasons, with partial seasons counted as one season
Hillman also managed five seasons in Japan
Maddon was twice an interim manager
All MiLB experience was prior to any MLB experience
Average MiLB experience is about 4.5 seasons; the median is 3 or 4.

Twenty-two of the current managers had minor-league managing experience prior to being hired as major-league managers, leaving only eight who did not manage in the minors. Four of these men were first hired as managers sixteen or more years ago (Baker, Gaston, Piniella, Torre) so their lack of minor league experience doesn't really tell us much about the current thinking of baseball GMs.

That leaves four managers that were recently hired with no managing experience whatsoever: Guillen, Girardi, Black, and Hinch. Hinch did have some management experience having held positions with Arizona as the manager of minor league operations and the director of player development. It should also be noted that Hinch was a mid-season hire.

Girardi was hired by the Florida Marlins for the 2006 with no prior managerial experience; obviously he had that pleasant Florida experience before being hired by the Yankees.

On the other side of the coin, eleven managers had zero experience as major-league managers when hired, but had managed in the minors previously, with nine of those managers having three or more years managing minor-league teams.

I don't see that I can draw hard and fast conclusions from this information, but it does seem the managerial hire with no professional experience is a fairly rare event in recent years.

Sources: baseball-reference.com, thebaseballcube.com

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Nice research, Dave

by Eric Stephen on Nov 6, 2009 4:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

2 World Series rings

for guys with a combined 1 year of experience (before being hired with their current club.)

by Michael White on Nov 6, 2009 4:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

3 with 2

if you count Ozzie, Girardi, and Scioscia

by Eric Stephen on Nov 6, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yup. Missed Scioscia.

by Michael White on Nov 6, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Give me that crazy ass Valentin or Tim Wallach. Don Mattingly – just another Eastern carpetbagger who couldn’t get what he wanted in the big city and had to come out West to settle working for the Dodgers.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Nov 6, 2009 5:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

LOL

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Nov 6, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, Dave, that's interesting stuff.

Coincidentally, I happened to read an article about Dusty Baker the other day where he recounted how he was hired. The Giants needed a manager for 1993, and he, as their hitting coach, was a logical choice since he already had a great rapport with the players. Al Rosen basically told him he needed to go manage in the Arizona Fall League to get some managerial experience, and if he did that he would be hired. He did, and he was.

http://tinyurl.com/y8jnjug

A similar case is Frank Robinson, whose name was tossed around as the likely first black MLB manager as early as 1961. It wasn’t a matter of “if,” but “when.” He thought he needed managerial experience, but obviously he couldn’t go manage in the minors since he was still an active MLB player. So he spent several winters managing in the Puerto Rico Winter League to gain the experience, and he was finally hired by the Indians in ’75.

(This is Enders here, by the way. JudenSmithFan has long been my SBNation login.)

by JudenSmithFan on Nov 6, 2009 5:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Eric

Let me know too if you want to change your screen name (although that is awesome).

by Eric Stephen on Nov 6, 2009 5:28 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

It’s not possible to have one screen name for True Blue LA and another for Burnt Orange Nation, right? If not, I’ve been using this one over at BON for a while, so I’ll probably stick with it.

I’ve been wanting to comment here at TBLA for a while, but my browser and the SBNation login system were having a staredown for several months and neither would give in. Finally today it worked for some reason.

by JudenSmithFan on Nov 6, 2009 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I gave it the evil eye for you.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Nov 7, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Eric, and welcome.

I should have noted in the article that minor-league experience did not include such things as the AFL or the various summer and winter leagues, mostly because I couldn’t find that information! For all I know, Ozzie Guillen managed a couple winter league teams in his native Venezuela.

I imagine that in those leagues the main experience is game strategy and practice making the in-game decisions because the manager just isn’t with those teams long enough to get much feel with dealing with personnel.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Nov 7, 2009 12:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Mattingly does have managerial experience

He managed that one split-squad game in Spring Training.

Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright.

by Mr. LA Sports Fan on Nov 6, 2009 9:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

espn tim kurjians top 10 offseason stories to watch..

number 4 is:

4. How will turmoil among Dodgers ownership affect the team’s on-field plans?

Owner Frank McCourt hasn’t had significant funds with which to work since he bought the club several years ago, and now, it seems, he will have even less money with which to deal given that he is getting a divorce.

The Dodgers need to acquire at least one topflight starting pitcher, but there is already speculation that they will not have enough money to re-sign left-hander Randy Wolf. If they don’t have the money to improve the club, they might have to make a trade or two, and that has to begin with pitcher Chad Billingsley. For him to not make a start in the National League Championship Series — but Hiroki Kuroda did, and Vicente Padilla made two — means it’s time for him to go.

If the Dodgers don’t think Billingsley has the stomach to be a top-of-the-rotation guy, then they should trade him now for pitching help.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=4629907

by matthewmafa on Nov 7, 2009 10:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

this was also supose to be block qutoed...

The Dodgers need to acquire at least one topflight starting pitcher, but there is already speculation that they will not have enough money to re-sign left-hander Randy Wolf. If they don’t have the money to improve the club, they might have to make a trade or two, and that has to begin with pitcher Chad Billingsley. For him to not make a start in the National League Championship Series — but Hiroki Kuroda did, and Vicente Padilla made two — means it’s time for him to go.

If the Dodgers don’t think Billingsley has the stomach to be a top-of-the-rotation guy, then they should trade him now for pitching help.

by matthewmafa on Nov 7, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Mmmm ... thanks for the advice Timmy

Very doubtful the Dodgers are going to bail on a young pitcher with Billingsley’s stuff just because he hit a rough spot.
A more likely scenario is that Billingsley continues to learn and improve emerging as a #1, #2 type pitcher. He’s almost there now.
The Dodgers don’t need to do too much in order to stay competitive. And that’s good, because it is true until the divorce proceedings are completed and the smoke clears and the dust settles, the Dodgers really will not be able be very creative or proactive when it comes to spending money.

by 68elcamino427 on Nov 7, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps Kurkjian was hanging out with Lincecum and the two Tims were getting high together. Just how are the Dodgers, who Kurkjian claims lack “significant funds” supposed to package Billingsley – whose value maybe down a little due to his second-half slump – in a trade to obtain “pitching help” that won’t be a significant payroll increase over Billingsley’s first-year arb-eligible salary, which Eric estimated at $4M some time ago, but may be dropping with his slump and playoff snub. Think that through, Tim.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Nov 7, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously

what a moron: acquire a magical, cheap ace by dealing your cheap ace-to-be.

A more interesting question he could’ve asked is, who will be this year’s Halladay and Lee? Halladay again and maybe Oswalt? Hard to think of anyone else off the top of my head.

by LA Taco on Nov 7, 2009 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs