Dodgers Waste Golden Opportunity, Decline Arbitration For Wolf, Hudson
by Eric Stephen on Dec 1, 2009 2:14 PM PST
in Los Angeles Dodgers Roster
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PrintI don't know what to say anymore.
The Dodgers declined to offer arbitration to all seven of their Type A and Type B free agents today, most notably Randy Wolf and Orlando Hudson, according to Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times. This means the Dodgers will receive no compensation if any of the free agents sign elsewhere.
I already covered the reasons for and/or against offering arbitration, and I expected to be disappointed today. But not to this extent. On some level, I can understand the argument for not offering arbitration to Hudson, even if I don't fully agree with it. However, not offering arbitration to Randy Wolf is just wrong. Wolf is the second best starting pitcher on the free agent market, and is sure to get a multi-year offer somewhere, so he would have likely declined arbitration.
In Wolf and Hudson, the Dodgers had two players that should be welcomed back if they chose to accept arbitration, and they only would be signed to one-year deals. Sure, they might be a tad pricey, but both provide value at or exceeding their worth, and again, it would just be for one year, and only if they accepted arbitration. Could it be that the Dodgers are so strapped for cash that they can't accept even the slightest risk of paying two talented players for one season?
Or is it worse than that? Do the Dodgers not want the burden of having four extra draft picks in 2010, the burden of four extra signing bonuses, possibly totaling somewhere in the $4 million range?
What other excuse could there be besides money? Because if this were strictly a baseball decision, both Wolf and Hudson would have been offered arbitration.
These are short-sighted moves by the Dodgers. Look at this team. The 2009 Dodgers only had the best record in the National League, and they were fueled by a young group of players once drafted by the Dodgers: Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier (OK, he was drafted by the A's), Clayton Kershaw, Chad Billingsley, Jonathan Broxton, James Loney, Russell Martin. Unfortunately, you can't continue the process of integrating fresh, new talent into the mix if you don't have the picks to draft them, or if you don't utilize the ones you have. The Dodgers may have potentially saved some money with today's decisions, but they missed a golden opportunity to invest in the future.
It is now apparent to me that general manager Ned Colletti's hands are tied by purse strings. He will have his work cut out for him this offseason, which seems like it could be a long one for Dodger fans.
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Possible non-tender candidates
1) Repko
2) Martin
3) Sherrill
4) Kuo
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
Fear of injury could be the reason he's non-tendered
if the Dodgers are operating with a razor thin budget, they will likely be more risk-averse.
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
Only Repko should
Martin still has the chance to rebound, and Sherrill cost us Bell and Johnson, there’s no effing way we give him up, especially because he’s still got value.
Bell and Johsnon are sunk costs
The fact that Sherrll/Martin have value could keep them from being non-tendered, but they could just trade those guys for mid-level prospects.
I’m just thinking out loud here, not sure if I think the Dodgers would actually do any of these things.
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
I can see Sherrill, Martin, and maybe even Ethier
being moved before the season. I severely hope Ethier isn’t even thought about in regards to trades, but I wouldn’t put it past McCourt right now.
Eric - You're the Boss
Is there any positive light to this? Any chance this could be an attempt to cash in all the chips? Maybe make a run at some big time trades and save some money for those new guys?
Probably not….just wondering your thoughts.
If the Dodgers thought that Wolf and Hudson would have accepted arbitration, then there is a possibility that it could be looked at your way. I doubt they did as the Dodgers probably figured, as we did, that they would refuse arbitration.
In that case, the money being “saved” isn’t actually saved until next summer when the draft occurs.
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think there's any chance at that
I think today was the loud signal to the rest of MLB that the Dodgers won’t even take a slight chance to add $18-20 million to their payroll this year.
Opening day lineup and rotation?
1. Furcal
2. Dewitt
3. Ethier
4. Manny
5. Kemp
6. Loney
7. Blake
8. Martin
9. Pitcher
1. Billingsley
2. Kershaw
3. Kuroda
4. Mcdonald
5. Elbert/Stults/Haegar
Son of a bitch, this team deserves better in the rotation. I would love to see Mcdonald and Elbert get shots, but only because of their skills not because they make league minimum.
I think the # 5 starter could be Stephen/Stephen. Based on today’s news Ned would be attracted to both of us because we’d each pay to play.
Lol
I might be ok with a Stephen/Stephen combo as the 5th starter, maybe even a Eovaldi/Martin-like tag team effort.
This off season (and likely next) is going to be terrible
I feel like our years of having this relatively cheap and solid young core are going to go to waste. Rather than being able to supplement this core with a few major signings, we are going to just wallow away in divorce proceedings and greed. Thanks Mr. McCourt and also a little thanks goes out to Selig for putting the Dodgers in this position.
From Jay Jaffe
4 years ago Nate Silver estimated that team losing type A f-a is compensated with $12 million in draft picks. http://tinyurl.com/y9b26wv
So, for avoiding 4 bonuses ($1-2 mil per, max), Dodgers lose out on $24 mil of picks by not offering Hudson & Wolf arb. #mccourtsmustgo
Doens't take much of a scenario
to see the Giants catching us very fast if they make a move for Bay/Holliday and Bumgarner proves to be the real deal.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
They could easily catch us next year if we trot out a rotation of kershaw/Bills/Kuroda/McDonald/Elbert and then Stults/Haeger as backups
Well
the Dodgers are going to trot out something like that. You shouldn’t have expected an upgrade to the starting pitching anyway, so anybody who shows up will be some NRI like Weaver/Park/Milton etc.
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
However bleak things may be in Dodger Land there’s the silver lining that the Giants offense is terrible and likely to remain terrible this year.
It's always darkest just before dawn
The only bats that would make a difference would be Bay/Holliday and they aren’t getting either of them.
It's always darkest just before dawn
with one hand
while with the other hand he takes another swig and staggers out of the bar into car that Zack Randolf is driving.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Like THAT would be a possibility.
Miggy, Jackson and Laird plus the Tigers paying 10 mill a year
for
Loney, D. Gordon, E. Martin, Lindblom, Martin, Sherrill, Eovaldi, Scott Van Slyke, and Lambo.
By doing that the Dodgers save around 10-12 million and add close to the same.
Lol. Now that’s a deal McCourt might like, because not only is the payroll close to the same, but he won’t have to worry about paying any of our good young prospects later on down the line!!!
I hate McCourt.
Based on todays decision some other possible moves for 2010:
1. Move Manny eating 1/2 his contract saving money this year and in the future
2. Move Martin, doubt we non-tender him but I could now easily see him being traded
3. Trading low level kids who are several years away for cheap current major league alternatives to flesh out the roster.
I still find it funny that anyone was even bothered by the Roy Halladay talk, as though this administration could afford such a pitcher.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
It has already happened the last two years
Santana was in A ball when he was dealt. Watt was in Low A ball when he was dealt. Steve Johnson had just graduated to AA ball when he was dealt. This seems to be the worse of both worlds. A cash strapped owner who only uses his farm system to trade for fungible talent whose costs are within a certain number. I"m not really sure why any of this is a surprise.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
You get a sense that Frank McCourt doesn't understand the real cost he's doing with his team.
You’re either running a team that is heavily based on the farm system, or you’re active in free agency. You can’t do neither!
2006: Dodgers draft Alex White in 14th round, big time talented P out of HS, don’t sign him (he went #15 to Indians in 2009)
2007: Dodgers draft Kyle Blair in 5th round, fail to sign him for $1.35m…he goes to USD and will be 1st rounder in 2010
2008: Carlos Santana for $2m
2009: Tony Abreu for $3,661,202
today: failure to secure even two, possibly four extra draft picks because team can’t afford the off chance of Wolf/Hudson accepting arb
I said it in the last thread, and I am saying it again
FUCK THE MCCOURTS!!
The pattern has always been there
today was just the hammer that shattered the misconception that Frank McCourt can keep up with the Jones’s.
You failed to mention all the deferred contracts which saved money short term but have real costs long term.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
You will see
cheap veterans not cheap kids. It will be the worse of both worlds, a cheap old team.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
What sucks is the Dodgers have enough of a core to win 90+ games this year, almost without any moves (although I think a low-level SP will still be signed), but the long-term ramifications are the gut punch that today has wrought.
Ya, I’m trying to think of the crapiest possible pitchers the Dodgers can invite to camp.
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
If nothing else happens this winter
I will breath a sigh of relief because right now I’m very nervous that they will move the young talent to fill out the roster. I can live with the current team, what I can’t live with is moving the talent for cheap veterans which would be another case of helping the team short term but killing is long term.
As we are currently construed this team can win 90 games but it has little chance of World Championship aspirations. However they could always be waiting for the divorce to settle and then open the coffers to pickup players in midseason to help with the postseason run. That is my only optimistic spin.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
No
Four cheap kids got cut today. Both Hudson and Wolf and their salary could easily have been traded.
There is no good spin on this.
We can only hope the team gets repossesed or foreclosed sooner than later.
The con is exposed, and the owners no longer care about their public image.
Four cheap kids got cut today. Both Hudson and Wolf and their salary could easily have been traded.
I don’t follow.
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
Good lord
MLBTR heading read “Odds & Ends: Kuo, DeRosa, Dye, Blue Jays”
Reading how the Dodgers made this day shitty, it downright scared me to death what would happen to our Kuo. It was about Fu-Lin Kuo
Logan White must be hating his job right about now
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
He still has a first round pick. Although he will hate his job when we sign Marco Scutaro next week and lose that first round pick.
We can't afford someone like Scutaro
We should have signed Gotay before the Cardinals did! lol
Here is to Hector Luna as the starting 2b for the Dodgers in 2010!
If only Hector
could still play 2nd base but it appears he is now but a corner man.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I'm more pissed off today than ever
I just get angry when the team is too short-sighted to pass up what almost seems like a free advantage. I could have lived with it if they just offered Wolf arb; I would have been pissed about Hudson, but on some level I can sort of see the reasoning.
But they have two guys:
1) one who hated getting benched, so why would he come back to play for same manager?
2) the 2nd best free agent SP on the market
Those guys of course would have declined arbitration! But even if they didn’t, you have to be flexible enough to accept that “burden” of having both Hudson and Wolf and making another run at it. They really wouldn’t need any other moves.
But the far more likely scenario was getting four free draft picks, all likely in the top 65 or so. For basically minimal risk.
It just seems they left so, so much on the table today
Don’t you think the issue is they don’t want draft picks, because you have to pay to sign draft picks?
Frank is probably
quite upset that Garrett Gould has more in has bank account then he does.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Actually he doesn’t, because the best part of that Times article was that Frank was down to $167,000 before he got a $1 million distribution payment!
But didn't that 1 Million disbursment
immediately get used to pay off his mortgages that were in arrears?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Yes, sort of
It’s a combo of:
a) not wanting to sign the picks, and
b) not being able to afford Wolf/Hudson if they happened to maybe accept
This was no doubt a financial decision on Frank’s part, the club is going downhill.
by Torre is a tactical genius on Dec 1, 2009 2:45 PM PST reply actions
It is not just the Dodgers
Right now, according to MLB Trade Rumors, 8 players have been offered arbitration (3 A/5 B), the “A” players are Scutaro, Valverde and Betancourt.
Those not receiving offers include Polanco, Damon, Dye and Kevin Gregg.
The Angels, Red Sox and Cardinals (Lackey, Figgins, Bay and Holliday) have not announced their offers (or lack there of) yet. My guess is that in the end, less than 20 players receive offers and it could be less than 15.
But no one
expected Polanco, Damon, Dye, or Gregg to receive arbitration. Everyone and their mothers expected Wolf to receive arbitration.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
The Tigers offered arbitration to Rodney and Lyon
so them not offering Polanco isn’t a sign that they are broke.
Even though they are the ones apparently interested in selling Granderson and Cabrera.
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
He's good enough
that I don’t think being a type A would have hampered him any.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Greg Miller?
I’m assuming by Heyward-Bey you mean tons of talent, but can’t actually convert it into usable ability.
I basically just meant a shitty shitty shitty draft choice, lol.
I could have just as easily said Jamarcus Russell, because that has turned out oh-so-well for them.
The Raida's will rise again guys.
I hate to say it, because I don’t like wishing death on anybody, but when Al Davis dies, I will get my NFL football team back.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 1, 2009 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
It is really weird how Al Davis
went from making great personnel moves, great signings, trades and drafts to utter destruct mode. So strange and depressing.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 1, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
+1
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
by BoulderDodger on Dec 1, 2009 11:32 PM PST up reply actions
Al actually wants to win though
He’s too crazy to actually execute it though.
This. I do see some light at the end of the tunnel when we get a new TV contract in 2011.
by Torre is a tactical genius on Dec 1, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
Except that tunnel
is much longer away since it is 2013
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Also, as I tried to explain a few weeks ago
Los Angeles is not a market where the Dodger tv contract is going to be much more than it is right now. Some of written that the Dodgers are not receiving any money from their Fox deal but I cannot find anything to indicate that. Yes, Fox made a nice deal but the Dodger total tv contract (cable and broadcast) is not much less than what the Angels are getting.
Doesn't matter that much
The Dodgers viewership is half of the Lakers but there is only so much money that a team will get.
I agree
the only light at the end of any ownership tunnel is to have the debt service not eat up such a large chunk of the operating profit. I would bet fixing that would be a far better boon to the club than any increase in TV revenue.
Open Letter to Dodger Management:
Fuck You
by Cool Dudes on Dec 1, 2009 2:55 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Frank could always sell the naming rights to Dodger Stadium, LMAO.
by Torre is a tactical genius on Dec 1, 2009 2:56 PM PST reply actions
Lumber Liquidator Stadium would be fitting
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
B of A Stadium at Chavez Ravine
by Torre is a tactical genius on Dec 1, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
Ugh
This is really depressing. I thought Wolf was a lock, even if they just offered him and nobody else I’d be cool. At least we know we’ll have our pick since the Dodgers probably won’t spend a cent on FA this summer.
I agree, I am surprised by the Wolf deal
I would love to walk the floor at the winter meetings next week. Again my hunch is that every team is in bargain basement mode so no one is going to commit to spending any money if they don’t have to.
The Rangers offered arbitration to Type B free agents Marlon Byrd and Ivan Rodriguez, according to MLB.com’s T.R. Sullivan. Byrd was a lock, but Pudge comes as a surprise.
The Rangers actually are going though bankruptcy. They had to borrow $15 million from MLB. They couldn’t sign their first round draft pick because they couldn’t agree to spend more than $4 million. And they offer arbitration to two players that would earn something similar to what Hudson and Wolf would have earned in arbitration.
Offering arbitration to Pudge
seems kind of stupid.
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
Its the kind of stupid the Dodgers should be doing. =P
Still, if a team in actual bankruptcy isn’t worried about arbitration, the freaking Dodgers shouldn’t be either.
Cash is generally tighter right before bankruptcy than it is in bankruptcy. If you are in the process of a Chapter 11, you’ve probably gotten some interest payments deffered, converted some sub-debt, and reached some sort of payment schedule with unsecured creditors. If you are fighting to stay out of bankruptcy, you are paying interest like crazy just to keep the lights on.
And offering Pudge arbitration would be like offering Mota arbitration, no? I just don’t see the upside.
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
Another thing that pisses me off
not necessarily about Hudson & Wolf, but the other 5 Type Bs: the Padres a few years back made pre arrangements with some Type B FAs that they would offer them arb on the condition that they decline. Doesn’t affect the player either way because a signing club wouldn’t have to give up a draft pick, but the Padres got free supplemental picks.
Why don’t more teams do that? Is it specifically prohibited? I don’t know.
Dorn – “I didn’t sell him outright though… I got you an outfielder…He plays on the Giants”
Lou – “Franklin”
Dorn “Not those Giants”
And to think...
…I spent part of late Saturday night (post USC victory/post a few too many beers) defending McCourt and the Dodgers against my Angel-loving (a-hole) brother-in-law who said “McCourt hasn’t spent a dime on that team”. Mea culpa, mea culpa…
This reminds me of those NLCS game threads
all I want to type is fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckingfuckfuckfucksonofafuckingbitchfuckfuckfuck fuckittyfuckfuckfuck
I went to TBLA and MCC broke out!
by KellyStephen on Dec 1, 2009 3:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Never thought they would give Hudson arbitration but the Wolf decision is a blow.
It's always darkest just before dawn
I remember after 2006 when I thought it was ridiculous not to offer Maddux arbitration
Then this shit happens. No arb to Hudson, Wolf or Belliard.
by StolenMonkey86 on Dec 1, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
ed_price
#Rockies offer salary arbitration to right-handed pitchers Betancourt and Marquis and decline to offer to LHP Beimel and C Torrealba.
God, I hope Marquis accepts, Marquis could earn $12 million in arbitration.
My birthday
Better not effing be a day where the Dodgers get screwed even worse by this budget cut…it better be a damn happy day!
No joke, I don’t think the Dodgers can afford all of their pre-FA arb guys. Someone besides Repko will be non-tendered.
In order of most outrage to least on December 12
if non-tendered:
1) Kemp
2) Billingsley
3) Ethier
4) Broxton
[actually these 1-4 are all very close]
5) Sherrill
6) Kuo
7) Loney
8) Martin
9) Repko
I still think all but Repko will be tendered a contract though. They are all easy to trade if Colletti’s hands are forced.
It made me throw up a little in my mouth.
Maybe I’m just too pessimistic.
by StolenMonkey86 on Dec 1, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
If Kemp is non tendered the McCourts will be laughed out of town
It's always darkest just before dawn
Kemp probably no
but Ethier and/or Loney? That would not surprise me.
by StolenMonkey86 on Dec 1, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
And Broxton
his sweat index ratio is too high
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
true, but
if I could have a good owner and manager Plashke instead of what we have now (decent enough manager and He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named as owner), I’d take that trade!
If you're right
Kim Ng already deserves executive of the year for next year. I don’t trust our arb cases with anyone else. Especially that dumbfuck from the Astros who lost Ryan Howard’s arb case.
by StolenMonkey86 on Dec 1, 2009 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
Tal Smith, who was in the Astros org at the time (consultant I think), was hired by MLB to try their side of the Howard arb case.
There really hasn’t been much of an effect from the Howard decision. He really was a special case. Of course, Lincecum will set a new bar this year, or at least for pitchers.
Surely the parties will settle before going to arbitration, no?
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
Possibly
It will probably happen after they exchange figures…then they’ll settle for near the midpoint. Sounds like Lincecum is OK with one year at a time right now.
out of 5-9, the worst non-tender would be Kuo by far. Kuo could get a good prospect in a trade or help fill a need for us, that would just be retarded to non-tender him.
Loney I can see why, but I’d much rather keep him, and then Martin still has potential to be good, while Sherrill needs to be kept because of what we traded for him…god damn that trade.
All of the top 8 would be horrible
I listed Sherrill higher than Kuo because we just traded Josh Bell (and Steven Johnson) to get him
Do you really think it might be possible that any of those 8 players aren’t Dodgers next year unless it’s by trade?
No no, I know that. The first 4 are obvious to even the biggest idiots of the world (Dayton Moore, anyone?), but if money is really that tight Martin could easily be the first to go, with Loney not being far behind.
Though it’s much more likely they would be traded than released.
Right
all of those guys have trade value.
You might not be happy with what comes back in a trade, but I can’t see them non-tendering any of those guys….
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
Somebody On Dodgers.com....
…says that what happened today means Dodger fans better get ready for a rotation of Kershaw/Billingsley/Kuroda/McDonald/Elbert., which he probably thinks is the end of the world.
Let me say this now: if that is our opening day rotation, I will be delighted, and I will forgive what has happened today. There is no point being upset about not getting extra draft picks if this organization is just going to screw the guys we draft out of chances to play anyway. I am assuming that if McDonald doesn’t make the rotation that he will at least be a lock for the bullpen, so let’s just say that what happens with Elbert this year is a litmus test in my eyes. I regard him as our top prospect, he is MLB-ready, and he has the predigree as a first rounder. Let the young man start fulfilling his destiny.
I would also be very happy to have Elbert start for most or all of 2010
He deserves a chance, his numbers in the minors are worth giving him a real shot at the rotation.
I Propose That "Wild Ass Lefty"...
…be the new “________ is not our guy.”:)
Tommy Lasorda is a Wild Ass Lefty
I wonder what his take on this would be, I am sure he could spin it into a positive for the Blue Crew. But it must make a true baseball guy cringe to have the future of the team he loves so dearly in the hands of a cheapskate parking lot attendant with no foresight.
I was really hopeful that it would not come to this, I thought solid baseball thinking would prevail, but alas it seems that the lawyers and accountants are running the show. I know Ned just signed an extension and Joe says he will be around for awhile, but if things like this continue to occur how long do we have NG and WHite and the solid core of mid level managment around? when they leave will positions just go unfilled to save another couple of mil?
FUCK! I did not want ot see this and now I have officailly gone over to the hating on the mcourts side and hope this is a short eclipse to the bright Dodger sun not the beginning of a long winter of discontent.
by MammothDodger on Dec 1, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
so if we dont give wolf arbitration
does this mean he is a free agent and will sign somewhere else?
im not 100% sure on the process
but i did read your article earlier about Hudson and wolf arbitration….
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
As early as 5 years ago, the arb process was a bit different. If you didn’t offer arb to your free agents, you lost the right to negotiate with them until the following May 1.
It played a large role (thank God) in the Dodgers “losing” Jose Lima after 2004; they couldn’t come to an agreement before the arb deadline
wolf was our best pitcher imo
this sucks
likely some team will offer him a large contract now
dodgers wont offer very much at all…damn mccourt
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
The Dodgers won't offer Wolf anything
there is no point.
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
Colletti
Imagine how you feel if you are Colletti (GM of dodgers) knowing you are large market team with owner who can’t support team for next yr or 2…
The millions Colletti is getting paid will help
What about us?
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
FYI, I was kind of joking with that comment.
by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
New Post up top
http://www.truebluela.com/2009/12/1/1181373/frank-mccourt-has-a-strange-way-of
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
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