Juan Pierre Dodger Blog Links
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 10:15 AM PST
471 comments
Pierre's departure is good for the Dodgers | Dodger Thoughts | Los Angeles Times
Juan Pierre has been traded, and Dodger fans should be happy. I know not every Dodger fan will feel this way, but it's really this simple. The Dodgers just got paid nearly $10 million for a bench player. It's impossible...
Farewell to Juan Pierre: Part One " Mike Scioscia’s tragic illness
Still waiting for SOSG to weigh in.
Now for an interesting column:
Memories Of Kevin Malone: Time To Reconsider Ned Colletti? This is the same blogger who once had a blog called "Fire Ned Colletti".
And the big news that is being swept under the table is that the DDB (Dodger Divorce Battle) goes in full swing today. Check out www.dodgerdivorce.com for the latest.
Dodger Divorce: All is quiet...
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Dylan Hernandez added this earlier:
The trial to determine ownership of the Dodgers will start May 24
Frank was never going to win on that motion
This isn’t a criminal trial, you can’t have a trial this big that quickly. Complete pipe dream.
Why not?
Bankruptcy proceeding can get in front of a bankruptcy judge within a week (thanks to the fact that the debtor usually has no cash to operate its business.)
Since its not a jury trial, these things can get on the judge’s docket much quicker.
Note: I have no personal experience in divorce court and a bit of experience in bankruptcy court, so I have no idea if the two are at all similar.
by Michael White on Dec 15, 2009 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
I've never personally filed bankruptcy
Just throwing that out there to protect my good name !
by Michael White on Dec 15, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
No I'm not
I do happen to work in a field where I occasionally deal with bankruptcy filings.
by Michael White on Dec 15, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
I think there’s too much at stake for her to have to put on her case in 2 months. I think May is fair.
I also think the fact that Jaime seems to have a loser may have gotten her a bit more time. I just can’t see her winning in a bench proceeding with the facts as we know them, but I’m sure she made a decent plea that she needs time to assemble the necessary documents and witnesses to adequately advance her interests.
I don't have any experience in either as well
so I’m more guessing than anything
omg May 24...???
But, YES~! Juan was a good player, but thank god he is traded… Phew~
ZOMG!!!!! LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZ!
2009-10 Kings Hockey: Delivering Milk Steaks from the Meat Train at an arena near you!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Dec 15, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
Is the off season over now for the Dodgers?
Is it worth arguing over whether we should sign LoDuca or Ausmus?
Will the Dodgers sign anybody other than a catcher to a major league contact?
See everyone in the Spring?
No
They are likely going to sign a starting pitcher, a middle infielder (part time 2B), and a backup C
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
If Harden can get $7.5m, Bedard should be able to clear at least $5m. Question is, will the Dodgers pay it?
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
Not a chance
they will go after a pitcher like Bedard. No gambles from Ned.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
If I had to guess
Garland or Padilla, Belliard, and Ausmus will be back in 2010.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
Do we really need a backup C?
Ellis is not capable of taking over that role?
by SeanMillerSavior on Dec 15, 2009 10:52 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Probably don't need
but that will still likely happen
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
I was wrong
I really thought this day would never come. Well, that’s not precisely true. I thought this day would come in October, 2011, when Pierre’s contract was up.
O frabjous day, calloo, callay.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
The 5 biggest disasters are all gone:
Andruw
Schmidt
Pierre
Luis Gonzalez
Tomko
Are those names about right?
oooh burn :)
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
by BoulderDodger on Dec 15, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
Hendrickson
Lugo – but Lugo turned into something quite useful but he was a disaster.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
From Dylan Hernandez:
Juan Pierre: "I’ve been in the witness protection program for the last two years
This is when all my rage comes out. Juan Pierre will bat his eyes and cry poor me to media whom will eat it all up.
The fact is this: after 2007, and after 2008, the Dodgers spoke with Pierre and offered to let him walk, opt out of the contract so he could be a free agent and play every day somewhere else. Both times, Pierre declined. Pierre decided to get paid instead of playing full time.
His best move now is to shut his mouth, and on the way out take the high road that we have been reminded so many times that he always takes
Teams and players
can agree to void contracts if they both agree, right?
Because I don’t recall him having an opt out.
He didn’t have an opt out. It was an olive branch offered by the team (twice!). I’m sure the players’ association would have had to approve it though.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
That's why
my attitude towards him is always “he can get fucked”.
He was the opposite of clubhouse veteran for two years, whining and wanting out of LA and admittedly not working as hard to be ready. Then all of a sudden in 2009 he decides to earn his goddamn money and everybody wants to forget and he becomes a fan favorite.
Fuck that.
Are you guys seriously still that outraged about Juan Pierre?
The guy has been fucking traded. Give me a break.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 15, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
I'm happy that he's gone
Absolutely
If he starts to talk shit now, he can shove it up his ass.
Period.
I share this opinion. But with more curse words :)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
Come on
the guy can complain about his playing time without everyone going apeshit on him. He just wanted to play, what is the big deal. When you sign a five year deal for that kind of money you expect to be the starting somewhere in the lineup. Nowhere does it say a player has to realize his own limitations and accept them. He was certainly right to expect to be a Dodger starting outfielder given the contract they gave him.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
He could have voided if he really wanted to play
Conversely, the Dodgers expected a better performer with the contract they gave him as well. :o
Not really
the players union would never let it happen. You name me one player with a multi year deal who has mutually agreed to void the contract. I’m fairly certain you can’t, this is not the NBA where players get bought all all the time, it doesn’t happen in baseball. Expecting him to do something no one has ever done seems farfetched.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
If the Dodgers expected a better player
Than they signed the wrong Juan Pierre
by bhsportsguy on Dec 15, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
He just wanted to play, what is the big deal
I am sympathetic that he wanted to play, but the fact is he wanted to get paid more than he wanted to play.
To me, Pierre falls into the Jeter/Tebow category that I’m more pissed off with the coverage of the player than the player himself. But Pierre seems to constantly feed the “woe is me” bullshit, and that does piss me off.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe some people wish he was more of a gamer and didn't like money like Manny (and everyone else in the World)
To be frank, to void a contract like that would be like voiding the purchase of a winning lottery ticket.
I just don’t get the Plaschkesque outrage.
Juan Pierre seems to cause irrational thoughts.
Juan Pierre the man (and his agent) seems to think very rationally.
Being buried behind Manny, Ethier, and Kemp is not a position just about any outfielder in MLB would like to be in.
I'm with Kensai
Who gives a shit what he would like? Is it too much to ask to be a “professional” (which everybody claims he is) and just keep your damn mouth shut about it?
by Michael White on Dec 15, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
He was
quite professional. Your expectations seem out of whack when you consider just how many times over the last 24 months he was asked about his situation.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe my expectations are out of whack
Whining to the press is one thing that does irk me (and it’s certainly not limited to JP.)
by Michael White on Dec 15, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
+1
Especially on, “I just don’t get the Plaschkesque outrage.”, and “Juan Pierre seems to cause irrational thoughts.” (though I’m about 6 hours late with this comment :) )
+1
This doesn’t even sound like it’s about his lack of playing time- it sounds like he’s talking about fan hostility towards him. Ironically, I think a comment like “he can shove it up his ass” as a RESPONSE to him saying that some fans were hostile to him proves his point!
Not me
I think any one who wants to play everyday while watching himself get older would have a chip on his shoulder.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
I’m waiting until I read the full post or article(s) with Pierre quotes before making a post.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
Giving him the benefit of the doubt
but he did also say this:
Juan Pierre: “The last three years have made me stronger.”
Yes, because the last three years were about what the Dodgers did to Pierre, rather than what Pierre did to the Dodgers.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
I think Pierre has stated before
himself that Manny Ramirez was a better player than him and he knew what to expect.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 15, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
I didn't realize he whined so much....
He seemed to be pretty quiet for the most part.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 15, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
It seems that Ethier and Kemp
have a ton of respect for the guy….I doubt they would be going to Magic Mountain with him if he was taking shots at them.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 15, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
He didn't take shots at them
The point is that he was still complaining when they were playing over him.
Juan Pierre, like Howard the Duck, is trapped in a world he never made.
How must it feel to master a skill, do it well, get rewarded handsomely for it, only to see that skill suddenly and without warning have no value to those around you?
I’d complain, too. Why did you make me your partner only to decide I’m worthless?
The world passed Juan Pierre by. I don’t think he should have had 700 plate appearances for the team I root for, but expecting him to be quiet about it, too? That’s too much for me.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Dec 15, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He still made 9 million for godsakes
It’s not like he’s not getting paid and in the poor house and had to be stuck on the roster
by that logic, nobody in professional sports should complain about anything
at least, not related to their job
This wins
for successfully comparing Juan Pierre to Howard the Duck :)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
I don't see why we should tolerate complaining
I don’t mouth off about my employer, why should we tolerate it from a millionaire ballplayer?
by Michael White on Dec 15, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
Relevance?
Give me that money over 5 years and tell me 2 years in that you want to fire me. Fine with me.
Because his job is different
And he gets asked questions everyday by the media. And players complaining to the press is as old as the game itself.
by bhsportsguy on Dec 15, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
It being old doesn't make it right
And sure, my job is different, but I find it unbecoming in general when people mope around talking about how much their job sucks or how their boss is an asshole (that’s the best equivalent I could come up with.)
by Michael White on Dec 15, 2009 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
So your problem is with the media that covers him
And I think that is Eric S.’s main issue too.
by bhsportsguy on Dec 15, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
Lot's of guys on the Dodgers got that praise this year.
That is the sign of a good team I think.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 15, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
This year?
I’m talking from the time he was signed that was cited as the main reason by Colletti.
omg hard worker awesome teammate
And that part seemed to play out to
expectations even when he was benched.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 15, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
Well
Mike when someone starts shoving a microphone in front of your face and you are expected to respond to questions about your workplace you might be surprised what comes out of your mouth.
I’ve always felt the complaints about what Juan had to say during the season were nitpicking to say the least.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
You have different expectations
when your supposed reputation and reason for signing him was that he was an ultimate professional
Do you really think his amount of complaining
was that much? I am sure that every millionaire ball player bitches about something during the season. And to compare it to a commonplace work situation, if something seems not right at my workplace, I bring it up to my employer rather than allow it to simmer. I think the ultimate judges of Pierre are his teammates and his manager. They all seem to regard him highly.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 15, 2009 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah its BS
He didn’t complain about anything other than making comments indicating he wants to play. He never said money means nothing to him.
On a happy note he received a pile of money he should have never gotten, so I think he has been well compensated for any misalignment.
Reminds me of when
Ron Harper left the Clippers on his way to multiple World Championships “I’ve been freed from Jail”. or something to that effect.
Not that any of this is the same, just wanted to throw in an obligatory Clipper reference.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
What's up with the "no defense" strategy
Is it just an anomolie of the 3 to 4 five minute segments I ’ve seen the Clips play?
The Clippers are actually an above average defensive team
according to PPG allowed. The problem is the lack of scoring.
by Michael White on Dec 15, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
They just look like they aren't
playing defense because they go through such horrid stretches of not scoring themselves. Different team with Eric Gordon playing healthy.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
Also should be noted
It was more of a “give Ned Colletti a second chance going forward” post rather than a “hey maybe Ned Colletti isn’t a bad GM” post. :o
If they followed the link they should have figured it out but it was still quite an olive branch considering what you used to call your blog.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
I'm trying to find any silver lining :o
Obviously he was a fucking disaster for like 2-3 years, but he hasn’t been as bad recently except for that Sherrill trade and Furcal. :o
Obvious
seems to be over-stating your argument.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
Really?
I don’t see how it’s possible to defend most of what he did early on. Probably the worst signings by a GM outside of Bill Bavasi.
He OPS'd almost .900 with 41 homers in 2006
that’s not terrible. He was terrible in 2007 yes, but I think a 2 year deal off of one bad year was a decent risk. It just didn’t work. Schmidt and Pierre were terrible signings, I agree, I think this one just didn’t work out.
Not my fault
Everybody was in love with this deal because of reputation.
He started changing his swing and taking more pitches to make up for a lack of bat speed in 2006. Swinging out of his shoes caught up to him in 2007.
Really now
at least base your arguments on real data. He sucked only the year before the contract. The year before that he was a beast.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Topic for another
day, I’m not his biggest fan and he made quite a few mistakes in the beginning but you go a long way from lousy to
Obviously he was a fucking disaster for like 2-3 yearsjust like you go long way to calling Belliard a “shitty” ballplayer when he was simply just an average 2nd baseman.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
Cartoon on Adult Swim/Cartoon Network
Probably one of the best written funniest shows on TV. Highly recommended if you’re a video game, comic book, star wars, or music nerd. And even if you’re not its still damn funny. There are 3 seasons out on DVD already.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
A cartoon series on Adult Swim that is a violent/sexist parody of Johnny Quest/Hanna Babrara shows/60s culture/and current pop culture refs up the wazoo. Its made by the same people who worked on the Tick cartoon series, and the Live Action version.
Sweet
thanks to both of you. I’ll start recording it
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
They just went on break until this summer
and the current season might be a little confusing if you haven’t at least seen season 3. Totally worth checking out from the start as they have some hilarious continuity based jokes at times. Still I think most of it stands on its own.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
Oh yeah I totally should've mentioned this
its like an awesome parody of the stuff Tripon mentioned. If you ever liked Scooby Doo, Jonny Quest, the Hardy Boys or any of that campy 60s era Super Spy kind of stuff you will also dig it.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
15 teams scouted Chapman today
Per ESPN. Then of course – ESPN decides to take a dig at one of the 15 not there b/c they’re too poor to even big – guess who? http://twitter.com/jorgearangure/status/6705286562
At some point, we’re talking about piling on here.
I’m fine with them taking pot shots at the Dodgers. Its just another example of how its not ‘business as usual’. If it was, the Dodgers would at least send somebody to see if Chapman had a good workout. Not even bothering to attend? How is that normal baseball procedure?
Why bother
if you zero ability to sign him. Have the Dodgers in their history ever been in on a Cuban player? And hindsite given their historical performance of just about every Cuban was correct.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
They were also signing their fair share of international talent under their reigns as well. When the last time we heard of an international signing? That Choi kid from Korea? Before him?
Kuroda counts as an international signing and one hell of a big one.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
Also Saito
Cost less than many of those signings and was more valuable than almost of those players that are signed.
by bhsportsguy on Dec 15, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
Again different, both Saito and Kuroda were in the early to mid 30s when they’re signed. Comparing them to young talent like Chapman or the 16 year olds in Latin America is comparing Apples to Oranges.
Yes
but at least when you spend money on the guys from the NPB you know what you are getting. How many of these 16 year old Dominican phenoms have actually panned out? The biggest one we signed was JtD and that did not end well.
I’d be willing to bet more domestic number 1 – 10 picks with the same amount of big money have panned out then the 16 year olds getting the huge bonuses in the Dominican. And the next time a young Cuban pitcher actually makes an impact in the major leagues will be the first time in 50 years.
I’m pretty pissed about losing the draft picks, not so much the cutback in scouting the Dominican. The Dodgers don’t seem to understand what makes up a good Dominican going all the way back to when they choose the lousy Guerrero over Vlady.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
Beltre should qualify as one that worked out, no?
by Michael White on Dec 15, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
No
we signed him when he was 15:)
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:19 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't realize the Dodgers were penalized for that
Per Wikipedia, Selig suspended the Dodgers from scouting in the D.R for a year.
by Michael White on Dec 15, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
it was a big deal, we were afraid at the time they would going to declare him a free agent. Of course now everyone thinks he’s older then his birthday.
He was the biggest 19 year I’d ever seen.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, but its the cost of doing business. You draft/sign guys, develop him, and if you ‘luck out’ you got a great talent on your hands that you can use later on.
Not even bothering to play the game just screws you over worse when you realize that you’re paying Juan Pierre 45 million because you think you have no CF prospects.
…Even when you do because you traded Franklin Gutierrez for Milton Bradley, and for some inane reason think Matt Kemp is a RF when he played CF throughout the minors.
To be fair
many scouts said Matt Kemp was a right fielder. Maybe Matt took a huge leap forward in this ability to play CF because he hadn’t played it very much until he was a professional. Maybe Juan Pierre helped him:)
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
I wonder if scouts were downgrading him too much for jumps. Yeah, he still doesn’t get great jumps, but he is still fast enough to make up for it enough to be a legitimate CF; as a plus, he has an arm plenty good enough for RF, let alone CF.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Hey
you missed a great thread today. Now I’ve got to get back to work and now I’m going to be working late. Damn you all.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I just miss
Not really participating on the smaller guys with upside
Most of the big name signings don’t really pan out, but having a presence there is important
Also their farm system sucked big time
Look I get the fact that the Dodgers have not signed many big money international guys since JTD. But money being spent on bonuses is not the right way to grade these things.
by bhsportsguy on Dec 15, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't have a problem with the lack of International activity
if we were shelling out a ton of money domestically in the draft, and not not offering arb to guys so as to avoid getting high draft picks.
I agree wholeheartedly.
But I still hope maybe Frank is just trying to get by this year on the talent thye already have and then shift it back into gear next year. But more and more it doesn’t look that way….
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 15, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
Lackey's deal
per Buster Olney:
Heard this: The final number for Lackey and the Red Sox — $87.5 million over five years, or $17.5 m. a year
Not sure
which deal is stupider the Lackey or Holliday deal. Either way maybe we should be happy that Ned had his wings clipped this winter.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
Sounds crazy, but I don’t have a huge problem with the Lackey deal. I probably overrate him though. At any rate, I like his deal much more than Holliday’s potential 8/$128m deal.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
You think Lackey is worth 17.5 million with an average FIP of 3.83 in his career?
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
It’s a little too rich for my blood, but it’s not that out of line.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
His numbers are good against the AL East, except the Yankees which he’s averaging a 4.66 ERA, 127 OPS+, and 1.500+ WHIP
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
I never read too much into those splits, because usually they reflect small sample sizes.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
For instance, from 2007-2009, Lackey has a 3.14 ERA in six starts against NYY, with a 1.256 WHIP
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
Which is weird
when you consider the fact he was the Angel ace and the Angels had no problem with the Yankee’s but the Red Sox would send them hiding under the table.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
Lackey’s deal seems market to me. Holliday – if he gets the numbers they’re floating – would be getting an insane deal.
Prediction
in 2012 the RedSox will be looking to move that contract and will end up eating a very good portion. Who was the last RedSox free agent that worked out? Maybe I’m missing something but I see Varitek, Lugo, Penny, Smotlz, JD Drew compared to the Yankee’s CC/Burnet/Arod/Teixeira.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
The RedSox
seem to like 30 and over free agents whose best times have already happened.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
If Red Sox win the 2010 World Series with a 4.33 FIP and 106 ERA+ from Lackey, can we declare the signing a success like you seem to have done with Burnett?
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
I don't consider
Burnett a success but he was a big free agent signing by the Yankee’s so I included him. If the Sox had a successful Free agent signing I’d have included him. Even Damon has worked out for the Yankee’s.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lackey must be one happy guy right now. Not even he, thought he would make 17.5 million a year…. Actually, he probably thought he was worth 20mill
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
and Ramirez, right? Still a raping though
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
If they can resign Lee it will be a steal
If we yield now, all is over; but if we fight, there is yet a hope that we may stand upright
Not sure how they'll pull that off
with the King on the horizon
It seems hard but i never thought the cardinals would actually be close to resigning Holliday
If we yield now, all is over; but if we fight, there is yet a hope that we may stand upright
They’re counting on record breaking sales of the new Super Mario Bros. Wii game this holiday season…
2009-10 Kings Hockey: Delivering Milk Steaks from the Meat Train at an arena near you!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Dec 15, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
Carlos Silva comes off the books
The Mariners could afford Lee and Felix and probably still have room for Holliday.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
Yeah, but none of their really marquee players
Lee gets traded for change every time it seems :o
Except to the Dodgers, where they start with Kershaw.
and a deaf guy
as though that has anything to do with his skill set. Might as well have said " and a gay guy".
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
it's not a comment made with any seriousness
it’s meant to belittle what they’ve got in return
Not everything is face value man, like when I call players names, it doesn’t mean that’s absolutely what I think all the time.
“omg you once said belliard is shitty, you fiend!”
:o
It is tacked on my computer screen
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
I liked Law's explanation of why Oakland and Toronto did their side deal
seems like a good move for both sides
Cliff Lee has been traded three times, and his new team has pretty clearly been the winner in the deal from the get go each time.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
Awesome for Toronto
Great rebuilding pieces. Couldn’t ask for any better. 5-tool player in Taylor, potential 1-2 starter in Drabek, and above-average catcher in Arnaud.
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
They are also trading Taylor for Wallace
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
Wallace apparently can rake
I think it’s a decent move for both sides
He can rake
But he might be DH, so I figure Toronto of all places would want a multi-tool outfielder when they have Snider and Lind as their DH/Stone Golem’s at the corners
Taylor has an arm though in RF though, but I guess Toronto has that taken care of already.
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
My predictions
Taylor has a better MLB career than Wallace
D’Arnaud gets a chance to start, sucks, and becomes a defensive backup
Drabek becomes a #2/#3 guy and possibly injury prone
Just saw the Buster tweet, which seems like pure speculation on his part.
But if true, I will write the angriest blog post in my personal history.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
If they sign Padilla I'll Cause a Riot!
If we yield now, all is over; but if we fight, there is yet a hope that we may stand upright
Why must you make us upset with this idea?
Today is a day for celebration and rejoicing!
No seriously, what have you heard? Is there a rumor of that out there?
by Michael White on Dec 15, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
The Tweet from Buster
With some money freed up, Dodgers expected to target some pitching. Joel Pineiro, said to be looking for 3- to-4 years, might be a fit
I call bullshit
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
I call bullshit too
There’s no way LA is giving a 30-40 mil deal to anyone right now, unless a current arb player wants to get a bunch of years bought out
These writers
have shit for brains. One day Buster is saying we are broke and the next we are players for Pineiro. Have some GD consistency.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
Heyman is the worst of the writers
If we yield now, all is over; but if we fight, there is yet a hope that we may stand upright
Ha!
Apparently to Buster, being able to pay Pineiro only like $7m per year = “broke”, but now we have that extra $3 million.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
If Pineiro
signs for less then Penny then some funny shit is happening.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
He wants 4 years, right?
Dodgers don’t have the money anyway.
McCourt might be saving the Dodgers from themselves :o
That's what I've been saying
Not spending has not been a bad thing for the Dodgers.
by Michael White on Dec 15, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
It's not in the FA market
It is when you are too cheap to acquire draft picks though. I am fine with letting all these guys walk if we had ended up with like 6 of the top 80 picks
No getting around
the fact the Dodgers screwed the pooch on the draft picks given that is what we do well.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly
I think we separate what’s going on here.
Not signing these trash FA’s is a wise move. It doesn’t matter why we aren’t signing them, but it’s the prudent move. But the draft picks are unforgiveable moves in my opinion. And very short sighted.
And Not Signing Marquee Free Agents like Wolf and Hudson
Absolutely will hurt the team’s performance in 2010.
But, if we aren’t going to sign anyone good, I would rather have 2010 have Dewitt, Stults, Haegar, and McDonald play major league ball long enough to see if they are really answers and even to see if Hu can hit than sign anyone bad or declining. We already have our backup player in the infield (or maybe even two) locked up for multi year deals, We can see if Dewitt is the answer at 2nd or 3rd, see if we have any young playoff rotation type pitchers, and then hopefully, new Dodger ownership who can just add a hitting infielder and starting pitcher or two and we are ready to go in 2011. Anything gained in 2010 will just be gravy.
I'll split hairs on your point
I don’t agree with the Dodgers decision to not offer Wolf and Hudson arbitration.
But I don’t view either of those guys as marquee free agents, and I certainly would have been unwilling to match Milwaukee’s offer to Wolf. I think both of those guys can be replaced, and frankly, the best shot at getting Wolf’s 2009 performance would not have been to sign 2010 Wolf. I believe 2009 Wolf was an outlier.
by Michael White on Dec 15, 2009 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe I'm reading too much into this
But if we do get John Ely in that deal, isn’t Ely a stud pitcher? Considering that he was the 8th best prospect in a below 5 farmsystem… His numbers look great to me.
Need to keep in mind he was 23 at AA though.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
He's 24 next May
But I’m sure he’ll be in AAA.
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Stud
seems to over state his prospects. Just the fact we got some live arms is good. In fact the Dodgers have acquired some real live arms over the last two weeks.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
What about Wang signing here?
Does anybody like that idea? He has the Torre connection (although overplayed, as Meercat John says) and he is buds with Kuo. Maybe the elixir of Dodger Stadium can help him out….What would the Dodgers have to do to get in on that action?
Love the deal on a low base ($1-2m) + incentives. He probably can’t pitch until May, so he’s on the backburner.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
I don't like Wang
I’m only irritated when you impugn players I like.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t like Wang
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Dec 15, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Wang or Bedard are our best bets. One year deals, with upside, ala Wolf last year. That’s really our best shot – I think we take a huge step back if we just bring in Padilla or Garland. I think one of our young guys could come close to their performance, especially Garland’s (at least Padilla has talent) for way less money.
Has anyone talked to Bedard yet? Any rumors?
As days and days pass by, maybe his stock goes down and we’ll offer Bedard a one-year deal
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
They think he'll pull a sheets
and wait until he’s healthy to sign
I wanted him on a incentive laden deal bad, best chance at getting ace like production on the cheap for a year
Seriously
But Harden made it much harder for that
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
I would love Bedard, but I still think he is out of the price range. He should be able to get close to Harden money, which would price the Dodgers out.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
My argument against that
was that Harden is ready to go now, Bedard isn’t until maybe June or July, so he should come significantly cheaper
Wow
I didn’t realize he was that far away. In that case, I don’t think the Dodgers will have the patience to wait nor the budget to sign two pitchers, one being a discounted Bedard.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
After Schmidt
I just don’t think we will sign any FA pitchers who have an injury history unless they are Milton NRI types.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe we have Bedard money now
With the extra $3 MM :)
Probably going to get over paid because people think he was a Yankees ace at one point
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
Let's see
Injured currently. Even when healthy he’s barely above average. Since injury hasn’t shown either velocity, movement, control or endurance necessary to pitch effectively.
He’s the type of pitcher where if he loses any of those 4, he’s going to sink to near replacement level.
Bedard and Wang should not be in the same sentence. One is an oft injured talented pitcher and the other is a Yankee Douche bag who has relied on luck.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
We have more than one
If we yield now, all is over; but if we fight, there is yet a hope that we may stand upright
Is he a Penny level douche?
If we yield now, all is over; but if we fight, there is yet a hope that we may stand upright
Have to admit
I’m unaware of any Bedard stories, are these drunken family troubles or drunken player troubles. Cause if he’s holding his kids by the ankles in front of the kids friends and mocking him then I have no room for him.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
Jeff Kent Surly?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
His play calling
or his non ability to hit major league pitching?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
Washburn questioned Johjima's pitch calling
there was a lot of stupid shit in the media about Rob Johnson being the better pitch caller and what not and the pitchers liking him more than Johjima, but I think more of this was resentment over Johjima’s untimely extension and Washburn just being a grade A prick.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
Speaking of Washburn
isn’t he still available?
boooowaaaaaaaahoooooooooo or something to that effect
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure this is incorrect
JJ Putz was one of those people though.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
What a putz
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
Besides
if you had beat me, I’d just delete your comment because I’m surly.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
As someone who is also a Mariners fan
I don’t think of Bedard as a douche bag at all. He’s just a quiet, private individual. The media doesn’t like him but he’s never done anything to indicate he is an asshole.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
So he's in Jeff Kent mold
If we yield now, all is over; but if we fight, there is yet a hope that we may stand upright
Less of a jerk than Kent
By all accounts he’s a nice guy and his team mates like him, he just doesn’t like talking to the media for whatever reason and so he gets a bad rap.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
You can be quiet
without being surly? I wonder if the media knows that you when you big a quiet man they tend to get surly.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
bug
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
Also on Bedard
he didn’t “pitch through pain” like idiot fans/media types wanted him to. Which is smart on his part and better for the team in the long run. Also people perceived him as a “wimp” because he only went about 6 innings on his best days.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
Buster_ESPN
I stand corrected on Lackey: It’s five years, $82.5 million. Exact same as Burnett deal. No performance bonuses, no extras.
Derek Lowe traded to the Angels would be hilarious. I thought the whole point for Lowe was to get to the East coast. :)
ed_price Cuban defector Aroldis Chapman today, in side session in Houston: 93-96 mph, abv avg slider & change. Person there: “He’s got the package.”
Typical female sportswriter
focusing on the package instead of the arm.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Kind of funny
Jim Bowden thinks Phillies “won” the deal. Insert witty comment here:
Phillies win deal..halladay for 3 yrs; Aumont future #2 Starter and they kept Brown..Mariners next, they get rent an Ace w Lee. BJays :(
Please explain, Mr. Bowden, why the Blue Jays get a sad face
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
From Jim
Blue Jays got 2 first round talents plus a 3rd which is way better than 2 draft picks or a DL stint prior to trade deadline…still :(
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
While I do agree that 3 top prospects > 2 draft picks
There is no reason for a " :( " in Toronto
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
And yes, 3 top prospects > 2 first round draft picks
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
Ha
I’m over it. The merger looks like it is going to be good for me and I’ll start to root for the evil empire. That is an awesome graphic, does that have enough resolution for a T-Shirt?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
No
Marvel stockholder ever since I read this cool book
http://www.amazon.com/Comic-Wars-Tycoons-Battled-Empire/dp/0767908309
Though I did cut my teeth on Marvel comics from 65-68 however when we moved from Germany to the US they were all left behind. Can’t say they had any value because we read them and they were in a bad way just like my baseball cards.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
If I remember correctly wasn’t that book about how Marvel was almost destroyed
If we yield now, all is over; but if we fight, there is yet a hope that we may stand upright
Kind of
but it was more about how two underdogs defeated two of the biggest Wall Stree Bullies to gain control of Marvel from bankruptcy and start it on the path that is one of the great business success stories.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I especially like
Namor holding whatever her name is. Maybe Disney will bankroll the Namor movie and make it the Star Wars Underwater that Marvel envisoned.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Funny
I know all the Marvel characters and very few of the Disney ones except for the old ones. Where are the Pixar characters?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
The Impossibles, Ariel is holding up Nemo, Wall-E is up there with the Silver Surfer, and the Monster Inc. guys are chatting up with the Hulk.
Now I see them
I was looking for Woody, I’m a huge Pixar fan but I do think they ripped off Marvel with the Impossibles.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
The Movie can be described as the Fantastic Four meet the Watchmen
If we yield now, all is over; but if we fight, there is yet a hope that we may stand upright
I think you mean Incredibles
If we yield now, all is over; but if we fight, there is yet a hope that we may stand upright
I never thought I would see
Gizmo duck fly with Iron Man, 2 heroes of mine when I was young, I’d probably have a big smile on my face looking at this picture when I was 6.
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
Brought a smile to my face
and I’m 51. You never forget the things that made you happy as a kid. Isn’t that why so many of us still follow this crazy ass game?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Uploaded larger version of image to imageshack for a permanent copy.
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4702/1260908660799.jpg
(Unless somebody reports it and it gets deleted)
This makes my "Marvel v. Capcom 3" dream
MUCH HARDER. Oh well, I gave up on that dream a few years back.
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
Dodger Divorce Link
http://www.dodgerdivorce.com/2009/12/its-date.html
for more detail on the May 24th date and what it means.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Read his post
It is / could be good for the team.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
If you want this matter to really end
Hope that behind the scenes, MLB, the Court and the McCourts are trying to settle this before hand. Otherwise, this could take a while.
Wouldn't it be in the best interest
for Frank and company to make sure this never hits the court stage? Do all the documents become public domain?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Should the McCourt saga stain Selig’s legacy? None of this shit happens if Selig stops it like he did with the Cuban bid.
Personally, unless the McCourt situation goes from really bad to impossibly bad — which I suppose could happen — the McCourts will barely register as a blip on Selig’s tenure. There are much bigger problems there.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Dec 15, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions
So
why should it stain Selig. Again, this is a regional story, its not like drugs or gambling or even the CBA.
In the big picture, the McCourts are no worst than a lot of teams owners over the past 30 years.
There are some plusses in the Selig years of being commissioner (attendance up, franchise values continue to rise), but isn’t his legacy already stained more than a carpet in a pet-owning hoarder’s home?
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
without getting too political,
I think giving any significant credit to Selig for higher attendance during his tenure similar to giving a President credit (or blame) for what happens what the stock market does on their “watch”- in other words, two events that everyone assumes are correlated when they have very little to do with each other- if anything at all. (And some people get upset with pitchers getting credits for wins & losses! lol)
Seems that things that you can link DIRECTLY to the man itself are FAR more negative. Besides, even if we were to credit him somewhat for the attendance thing, isn’t attendance pretty much up for all major sports during his time? A rising tide lifts all boats, and in fact, you can argue that baseball has gotten LESS popular in the time he’s been around, relative to the other big sports.
Yes and no
Generally, the discovery (documents, depositions, etc.) is not filed with the Court unless it is needed as an exhibit to a filing. And now with most cases digitizing cases, the exhibits at trial are almost never kept after the trial is finished.
One secret is that if this matter gets sent up to appeal, all of those documents are public and get be reviewed at the Court. (aside from exhibits)
Isn't it certain
to be appealed by whoever loses?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
maybe but this will be a legal issue
And unless the Appellate Court believes that the trial court totally screwed up in his evaluation, they won’t change it. (Court Trials are generally less likely to be overturned since you don’t have all the jury issues that come up in those trials).
I don’t get it.
If Frank wins the team, doesn’t that just translate into more alimony for Jamie? Isn’t the judge going to give her just about every other single asset if Frank wins the Dodgers? Isn’t all of the debt going to go with whoever wins ownership of the team?
If Jamie wins all of the assets and gets alimony, and Frank gets the team, I guess it works out for Frank if he sells and still has more money than Jamie gets, but then he looses everything if the Dodgers become insolvent. It would almost be a clever trick to separate out all of the debt and all of the assets, so when one party goes broke the other at least is able to preserve some assets if they were truly insolvent.
Either way, no way Frank is keeping the team unless he gets a partner with a lot of funds. I really hope this happens faster, but if it all goes down in one year I suppose that’s really the best I can hope for.
Maybe someone who understands law can answer some of these questions.
So what exactly are we rooting for here come May 24th
Josh noted that if Jaimie wins, we might see new ownership sooner than later, is that what we should be rooting for then? I don’t want to have to operate like a small market team if Frank will have nothing left in the bank..
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
To me, it seems like if Jamie wins, as in they have to split all assets 50/50, that means the Dodgers will have to be sold more quickly.
I’m all for whatever decision brings the Dodgers an owner who isn’t saddled with debt.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
did you ever see the Simpsons
where Mr. Burns and Homer are fighting over custody of Bart, and the judge rules Mr. Burns to be the biological father of Bart?
I’m hoping for an equally unexpected verdict- Jamie & Frank fighting over custody of the Dodgers, and a judge determines the real owner is Mark Cuban.
Where does alimony come in to it?
They’ll eventually split the assets 50-50, and the team will be sold. Neither party would be in a position to be paying the other after that. Unless Frank somehow keeps the team and Jamie gets stiffed, she could get some sort of alimony, otherwise with a 50-50 split with each party getting tens of millions, what’s the point?
by Capt Obvious on Dec 15, 2009 11:51 PM PST up reply actions
The idea was their was some crazy postnump scheme that Frank cooked up and Jamie signed
If he wins that, he is sole owner, but then has way more assets (or debt we don’t know) than Jamie, so I would think the judge would give her all of the other assets and more alimony to make up for that, but that’s just a guess.
I don’t think anyone has brought up the strong possibility that Trayvon will now get a shit ton of ABs in major league spring training games.
NICE!
I don't think
his arm is the problem, just better routes. He certainly doesn’t have a RF bat, the man has to play CF to be useful to us.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I only saw 3-4 games this year, but the impression I got from those in the press box was that Trayvon was thought of much like Paul Oberjuerge thinks of Matt Kemp. Lots of “c’mon, Trayvon!” and eye rolling ensued, in regards to his mistakes.
Although part of it was because they could see the talent was clearly there, and he did seem to improve as the season wore on.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
To show I am not only a Juan Pierre hater
This is a damn near perfect quote from Pierre. Courtesy of the AP:
“It was a tough situation for me, the coaching staff and the whole organization,” Pierre said. “Everybody knew how much I loved to play and wanted to play, and I felt like I could help the team. But they went in another direction because the young kids can play and Manny’s probably one of the top five hitters ever.”
I withdraw my earlier complaint.
That is good to hear. But he won’t be so humble when Fatdruw starts taking away ‘his’ playing time in Chicago.
I don’t think Andruw will be doing much of that anymore.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
this might have been mentioned already as well
but Juan will be used primarily as a centerfielder no? with Rios in left and Quentin in right
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
Not sure
but they should keep Rios in CF and put Pierre in LF
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
He can want to play the field, but out of just about anyone in baseball I would guess Andruw has the least leverage to dictate when and where he plays.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
glad to hear it
It was surprising, especially after your very nice postmortem earlier about Pierre the person, how quickly you assumed he was trash talking. It sounded to me like he was just making a comment about the hostility he generated- which, given some of the commentary about him (even today), seems like a pretty fair assessment.
I never thought his earlier comment was trash talking, but more of the whiny variety, playing into his role as Eeyore. :)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
Good bye J.P., Does money saved mean money invested?
I thought J.P. walked the walk, and boy he would have been so much better could he “chalk the walk”. He was definitely a “team” player and carried himself as such throughout his tenure with the Dodgers. The contract was a completely different story but I don’t want it to take away from the time J.P. put in , and the constant adjustments he handled like a pro along the way. He did what he was expected to do, and with the proper handling could have posted significantly better offensive numbers even at a defensive cost (Manny plays there now).
So the money saved in this case seems to be more than most posters expected (1st off season positive), would McCourt/Colletti put it right back into the team (for PR purposes alone)? I’d like to hear any thoughts/expectations from the people who like Pierre, put the time in and followed it’s impact both on the field and in the budget.
What “proper handling” do you think Pierre needed to “have posted significantly better offensive numbers”? His first year here he started everyday in CF – the norm in his career – and he produced one of his typical .320 something OBP seasons. His last year here he finally produced better numbers, when he didn’t play everyday. Notice that he was hot and productive right out of the chute after Manny’s suspension but cooled off to freezing levels after playing everyday for three to four weeks. To me the right handling is to avoid playing him everyday, which makes his contract – paid like a starter – all the more ridiculous.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
The hitting coach could have...
encouraged him to use the Baltimore chop and bunt more?
Is WWI just over the horizon?
Just got a chuckle out of the ‘Baltimore chop’ comment, like it’s 1912 all over again…JP is just a player from the wrong era. His playing style would be more useful if his speed translated into a better SB% and he had the defense to play short or cf. This small ball crap just doesn’t fly as a LF…
by Capt Obvious on Dec 15, 2009 11:56 PM PST up reply actions
Pierre = Lightning Rod
Days on end of posting regarding Pierre have I endured.
Great late inning pinch runner in the last two innings.
Now way could anyone justify by the numbers playing Pierre in front of:
Ramirez
Kemp
Ethier
Pierre was a good guy to play when they needed a rest except, when Pierre was in the game in place of one of those three, a tremendous power gap suddenly exists in the batting order.
Bye, bye Juan
Good luick in Chicago and we’ll see you at Camelback for sure.
Hope you never feel the need to “walk salty” again.
After the Dodgers signed Andruw Jones
moving Pierre out of CF and out of a full-time role, Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise reported this quote from Pierre (from Feb 2008):
I’m not going to walk around here salty
Thanks to Sons of Steve Garvey for the link.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 7:20 PM PST up reply actions
it became a bit of a running joke at SOSG.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 7:21 PM PST up reply actions
Just for fun
2010 CHONE projections:
Pierre: .289/.336/.371
X.Paul: .254/.319/.380
Repko: .232/.302/.364
Paul adn Repko to the bench
What a money saver?
by 68elcamino427 on Dec 15, 2009 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
I want to hear what people think will be done with the money saved by moving him. That’s basically what the incentive was in moving him.
No one knows.
1) It’s possible that the Dodger payroll is lower than we thought. There are any number of reasons for that, up to and including an owner who needs to finance debt and/or a divorce.
2) There’s your Vicente Padilla or Jamey Carroll money.
3) There’s the difference between affording Joel Pineiro and not affording Joel Pinero.
There are more possibilities. Nobody knows.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Dec 15, 2009 8:42 PM PST up reply actions
I just read that Toronto is paying the Phillies 6 million bucks in this deal.
WTF???
The Dodgers could have easily, easily made this work.
Except for the signing him to a $20m/year extension part of course
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:04 PM PST up reply actions
True. But I’m just saying if Halladay would’ve agreed to the trade without an extension (especially since he didn’t want to train in AZ).
A more feasible what if would have been getting Cliff Lee
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:06 PM PST up reply actions
and the dodgers have nobody equal to
Pitcher : the hype of kyle drabek..
Outfielder: Taylor
Catcher: D’arnaud
those are the 3 people and positions they wanted.. dodgers dont have anybody equal to those players
“Hype” is the key word there since Withrow is just as good.
Taylor is excellent, you’re right. But what’s so good about the catcher?
the catcher is already a Great Defensive catcher (best in phillies org)
former first round pick..
he has 20-25 home run power which would be very valueable from the catcher position..
4th overall prospect in the phillies system after the big 3 of drabek brown and taylor..
the guy is a good prospect and would be top 5 in torontos right now too
Thank you
Hype is right when people talk about him like he’s the next coming of Lincecum.
But no, if those were the positions Toronto wanted, we were never in it. Lee was more obtainable.
by Capt Obvious on Dec 16, 2009 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
why didnt the phillies trade lee to another team
that was willing to give them more then a reliever and a highly overrated CFer who is probably a 4th outfielder..
i think it would be more
dee gordon and josh lindblom comparison tho..
dee gordon has the same tools as gillies and lindblom is almost the same as aumonte in the starter or reliever (both probably reliever)
Aumont is the dude with the hip problems right?
I read he can still pitch mid-90s to upper 90s and has a “slurve”.
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 9:24 PM PST up reply actions
Oh man
His numbers in the AFL this year were not good.
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 9:28 PM PST up reply actions
but aumont is on a whole nother level
compared to eovaldi..
and the only thing that differes from gordon and gillies is position and gordon might move to cf anyways..
but robinson and gillies is not a bad comparison at all tho..
i just think gordon and gillies are much more alike in tools
Wait a minute
Weren’t you on Gillies’ jock last night? :)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:17 PM PST up reply actions
yes
but you guys convinced me that his offensive production was a product of his home ball park.. which was true
ESPN also has Juan Ramirez going from Mariners to Phillies
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:17 PM PST up reply actions
LA Times Pierre story is updated
and aside from Pierre’s earlier quotes now in context appearing very respectful and professional on his way out (again, I retracted my earlier outrage), Dylan Hernandez has this note:
Colletti said he was working on a three-way deal that would have sent an established major league pitcher to the Dodgers, only to have one of the three teams pull out.
Yes
But unsure if the White Sox were included in this earlier version
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:20 PM PST up reply actions
Oh yeah
Pierre will play LF in Chicago:
Williams said Pierre would be his team’s starting left fielder and leadoff hitter
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
3,000 hits
here he comes!
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Dec 15, 2009 9:23 PM PST up reply actions
BTW, farewell to Juan Pierre Out Watch. Excellent job, gents.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:24 PM PST up reply actions
Juan Pierre is at 1,663 hits. He’ll be entering his age 32 year in 2010. He would need to get 1337 hits before he is done. This might be a Bataan Death March type of thing.
I know all that.
I can’t help it. I have to root for this. Juan Pierre with “automatic” HOF numbers? C’mon, that would be awesome, to see that Hall of Fame debate played out.
I will fool myself with this: if any old player can stay healthy enough to do it, it’s Juan Pierre.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Dec 15, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions
Man Humma
I remember this conversation back when JP was a full-time Dodger and I said back then he wouldn’t remain a starter long enough to get those at bats. Not soon after he wasn’t starting. You have no comp’s for a player like Pierre playing long enough to get 3,000 hits. The legs go to fast and then he has no worth.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
No comps
No comps
No thoughts
No rational belief that such a thing could happen
Just dreams, baby, dreams.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Dec 15, 2009 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
Makes sense
if you believe the Dodgers always have to be screwed in mega trades these days (ie, trade Bills or Kershaw for Halladay when much less was able to get him).
by Capt Obvious on Dec 16, 2009 12:06 AM PST up reply actions
John Ely
This guy that we might be getting is a ‘die hard’ White Sox fan:
http://www.southtownstar.com/sports/disabato/1917114,120309sptdisabato.article
I don’t know whether to feel bad or what.
It’s karmic payback for losing Dodger fan Chuck Tiffany. :)
http://articles.latimes.com/2005/jan/28/sports/sp-plaschke28
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:31 PM PST up reply actions
Lets hope the same thing
that happened to Chuck does not happen to Ely after he was traded. I like players who really want to play for their home team, it must blow to get traded like that.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Yeah
I always used to think how much it would blow to get drafted by the Giants. I always played out the scenario with me being happy to be drafted, then happy to make the big leagues, then would sign with the Dodgers as soon as I became a free agent, Andre Dawson style by walking into the office with a blank contract.
Then I turned 14
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
Those are great stories
But what happen to Chuck was a complete disaster. Poor guy. I remember when we traded him and E Jax for Danny “I’m not a proven closer” Baez and some dude who sucked but made it great in Japan..
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 9:50 PM PST up reply actions
that dude (Lance Carter) just got hired as a minor league coach with the Rays
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:53 PM PST up reply actions
haha I was reading that right now
Good for him.
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions
He's a douche
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 10:37 PM PST up reply actions
Oh man
What he doesn’t want is to be traded.
“I hope that doesn’t happen,” said Ely, a former Star Newspapers High School Player of the Year. "I’m in no rush to get to the big leagues. Of course, I’d like it to be the sooner, the better. You know, when it does happen, it’s going to put a dent in my wallet. I think most of Homewood will be there. That would be something.
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
I Am Surprised Nobody...
…has mentioned John Ely in relation to D.J. Houlton. They are practically clones of each other, scouting-wise and in succeeding in Double A. at around the same age with their un-sexy stuff.
I was always irrationally fond of D.J. Houlton for some reason.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
For me, it was because
He was a Rule 5 guy who stuck. That’s worth rooting for. And then — if I recall correctly — he showed some signs of progress in AAA but didn’t get another real shot for a job in the show.
I’m not saying he was anything great — just an easy guy to root for.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Dec 15, 2009 9:42 PM PST up reply actions
not so fast..
there is still a chance that josh hamilton becomes a monster player everyone thought he would be.. just needs to stop getting injured
but yes
johan is the best rule 5 pick so far
Hamilton is only two years younger than Johan, and he has far too much catching up to do to even get close to Johan.
Hamilton’s even a long shot to reach the lofty heights of George Bell and/or Bobby Bonilla.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:53 PM PST up reply actions
yup
but best eVer was roberto clemente..
and the joakin soria man in KC is prettttty good
Before the Mets traded for him, Johan was matter-of-factly the best pitcher in baseball. Now it’s Halladay.
Did Johan’s value drop or is this just all opinion.
One injury year. Johan made 34 starts in 2008
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:54 PM PST up reply actions
…and had a good case to win the NL Cy Young over Lincecum (close)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions
didnt the mets bllow like 9 leads..
9 games he could have won were blown!
This is from Joe Posnanski
from October 2008:
Santana will not win the Cy Young award, I don’t think. But you certainly could make a strong argument for him. He went 16-7 with a 2.53 ERA — his ERA led the National League. He led the league in innings pitched and games started. He was second in strikeouts, second in ERA+ and sixth in WHIP. Five of his seven losses were quality starts, and he had NINE quality start no-decisions. I’m not saying he should have won all of those … but according to brilliant reader Dan, pitchers win about two-thirds of their quality starts. So that should be, what, nine more victories and three or four fewer losses — Santana easily could have gone 23-4, or 22-3 or something like that.*
*Brilliant reader LMajersik fixes my math by pointing out that if I’m going to play the quality start game, I need to include ALL his quality starts. LMaj is absolutely right. Santana had 28 quality starts this year. So, assuming the pitchers win 2/3 of their quality starts, that should be 19 victories (18.76 victories to be precise). Santana won two games that were not quality starts — we’re not taking those victories away. So that’s 21 victories using the quality start method. It should be added, though, that Santana had quite a few super-quality starts that he did not win .. so, actually, though my math was wrong, I still think he should have gone 22-3 or or 23-4.
Point is: It ended up being a pretty spectacular year, especially when you note that the last two months of the season, with the Mets desperately trying (and failing) to get that playoff spot, Santana went 8-0 with a 1.79 ERA
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 10:00 PM PST up reply actions
He would’ve easily beat Timmy with that record.
by Julio Nievas on Dec 15, 2009 10:02 PM PST up reply actions
yup
but better for timmy..
more arb money for him and higher payroll for SF = less money to go out and get a hitter
by matthewmafa on Dec 15, 2009 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
his value dropped
because his velocity dropped..
and his slider lost its bite..
change up this year was barely above average...
but the change was among the best the previous 5 years..
sliders been gone for the last 3 years..
and his fastball has always been a above average pitch…
by matthewmafa on Dec 15, 2009 10:02 PM PST up reply actions
white sox have Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre
now if they some how got jason schimdt even though hes done
they will have taken all our most disappointing signings in recent years haha
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
Anyway, I just want to say however you define ‘Ace’. John Lackey is a pretty sucky definition of one. =P
Still
would you trade the Red Sox’s five best starters for the Dodgers’?
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Dec 15, 2009 10:01 PM PST up reply actions
john lackey is the 3rd starter for the red sox next year..
a highly paid 3rd starter..
after lester and beckett..
by matthewmafa on Dec 15, 2009 10:05 PM PST up reply actions
that's what i'm saying
lester-beckett-lackey-matsuzaka-buchholz looks pretty good to me.
especially compared to kershaw-billingsley-kuroda-umm-yeah.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Dec 15, 2009 10:06 PM PST up reply actions
will manny be in the top 10 in Baseball history in Home Runs after this year???
he needs 28 home runs to be 10th all time…
but that also means jim thome only hits 10..
manny has to hit 18 more homers then jim thome and hit at least 28 homeruns to be 10th all time after this year…
Will he do it??!?!?!
I think he will hit 28+, but not hit 18 more than Thome (I’m guessing Thome ends up DHing somewhere)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
that would be funny if he went back to the white sox
their bench is turning into a retirement home
now if they somehow had a time machine, theyd probably destroy us all.
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
Going back to Repko vs. Paul for a second, Torre is probably going to choose the X-Man. It’s all about positive impressions – which is only true in one case.
Except that
(a) if Repko was healthy May 7, he would have been called up instead of Paul
(b) Paul was healthy on September 1, yet it was Repko who got called up to the majors
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 10:18 PM PST up reply actions
So was Pierre, according to mlbtv. But at least they acknowledged that he simply wasn’t as good as the other 3 outfielders.
by KellyStephen on Dec 15, 2009 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
a) Not indicative of their respective talent levels. Paul is younger and was better suited to get ABs in the minors
b) But this was after Paul missed so much time due to injuries. He needed to shake off the rust with regular playing time.
I think in 2010, with all things being equal, talent might win out this time. Then again, things aren’t always equal.
by silverwidow on Dec 15, 2009 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
The choice might be made for them if Repko stinks the crap up for the first two months of the year, and then Paul is recalled up to take over.
Plus, depending on the make-up of the roster, there might be room for both Paul and Repko on the 25-man, although that seems unlikely.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 10:26 PM PST up reply actions
But talent winning out has nothing to do with impressions. You seemed to be making assumptions based on what you (and I) want to happen rather than what will happen.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 15, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions
I think impressions do play some part, though. Paul caught Torre’s attention with a great spring last year. He even talked about the improvement from 2008.
The only memorable thing Repko has done since then was a Golden Sombrero (6/30/08).
by silverwidow on Dec 15, 2009 11:55 PM PST up reply actions
is there any way that
we carry 5 outfielders on the roster..
xman backs up kemp and manny on tough rightys
repko backs up ethier and sometimes manny against lefties when manny needs rest..
by matthewmafa on Dec 15, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions
repko still can mash leftys..
he could be a platoon partner for ethier against tough lefties..
and if ethier needs a day off.. or manny
by matthewmafa on Dec 15, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
Its weird checking out Repko’s B-R page and finding out he was drafted in the first round. Who in the hell thought he was a 1st round talent?
he was a first round talent
he was drafted as a shortstop with speed who some pop..
you can see why he was a first round talent out of high school
it just didnt work out for him..
by matthewmafa on Dec 15, 2009 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
Big time
neck injury after he was drafted from what I remember. See if I have some old 2000 BA prospect books laying around. You can see his athletic skills and see why he was drafted. Gun for an arm, great speed, just can’t hit a major leagueRH breaking pitch. Not something you can tell out of high school, you draft the skills.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 15, 2009 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
yes and he torn his hamstring..
the man got injured big time and it really hurt his developement..
by matthewmafa on Dec 16, 2009 12:16 AM PST up reply actions
Tigers Were Wise Not to Pursue Pierre
says Detroit News
Juan Pierre sounded like just the guy the Tigers need.
But he wasn’t. Not for the price the White Sox had to fork over (two pitching prospects)to the Dodgers, and not for the price of Pierre’s absurd contract the White Sox yet have to eat ($8 million of the $18.5 million Pierre is owed through 2011).
Pierre is a decent left-hand batter with some defensive prowess, which made him, on paper at least, enticing to the Tigers. But he is over-priced. He is basically a fourth outfielder with singles-hitting ability and zero power. Pierre doesn’t help an offense as much as people think. And again, there is the reality he is horribly over-priced, even if another club is eating a good portion of his salary.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
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NL West Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
San Diego
|
60 | 42 | .588 | 0 | Lost 2 |
|
San Francisco
|
60 | 45 | .571 | 1.5 | Won 2 |
|
Los Angeles
|
54 | 50 | .519 | 7 | Lost 4 |
|
Colorado
|
54 | 50 | .519 | 7 | Won 3 |
|
Arizona
|
38 | 66 | .365 | 23 | Lost 1 |
(updated 7.31.2010 at 9:51 PM PDT)
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