Jamey is no Ronny
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 17, 2009 9:53 AM PST
45 comments
This side of the TBLA group feels that Ned just wasted 4 Million dollars. You can argue that he's worth so many wins based on his numbers in 2009 but the fact remains we are paying more then the minimum for a guy who is one of the weakest hitting middle infielders in MLB during the last three years. And he does not even play SS. And now he's headed into his age 36/37 year old seasons. Those who think this was an okay deal will not be singing those praises come Aug in 2010. We don't just have 2 Million lying around to throw at the skill sets of the Jamey Carrolls.
Rk Player SLG PA To From Age AB 2B 3B HR BB SO SB CS BA OBP OPS
1 Omar Vizquel .308 1070 2007 2009 40-42 956 35 6 5 81 104 23 10 .243 .301 .608
2 Cesar Izturis .317 1203 2007 2009 27-29 1115 38 9 3 66 83 39 13 .259 .306 .623
3 Jamey Carroll .332 1028 2007 2009 33-35 889 32 7 5 98 162 17 7 .263 .345 .677
4 Luis Castillo .342 1554 2007 2009 31-33 1332 38 9 5 172 138 56 14 .289 .369 .712
5 Bobby Crosby .348 1251 2007 2009 27-29 1143 65 3 21 94 202 19 6 .231 .290 .639
6 Aaron Miles .351 1027 2007 2009 30-32 950 38 4 6 56 98 8 4 .283 .322 .672
7 Julio Lugo .358 1230 2007 2009 31-33 1088 62 7 12 111 178 54 10 .255 .323 .681
8 Ryan Theriot .358 1935 2007 2009 27-29 1719 69 11 11 173 201 71 27 .286 .353 .711
9 Adam Kennedy .370 1257 2007 2009 31-33 1147 55 6 16 88 162 33 9 .269 .324 .693
10 Marco Scutaro .379 1651 2007 2009 31-33 1429 71 2 26 182 180 23 8 .272 .355 .733
11 Erick Aybar .385 1142 2007 2009 23-25 1044 46 15 9 54 131 25 13 .286 .326 .712
12 Orlando Cabrera .385 2139 2007 2009 32-34 1955 104 5 25 136 206 52 14 .288 .332 .717
13 Rafael Furcal .387 1486 2007 2009 29-31 1337 63 11 20 136 174 45 15 .279 .346 .733
14 Yuniesky Betancou .388 1657 2007 2009 25-27 1565 94 11 22 53 134 12 11 .272 .294 .683
15 Felipe Lopez .389 1883 2007 2009 27-29 1688 91 11 24 167 291 38 23 .279 .345 .734
16 Jeff Keppinger .390 1122 2007 2009 27-29 1005 53 7 15 81 69 5 4 .279 .335 .725
17 Jack Wilson .390 1267 2007 2009 29-31 1155 70 4 18 72 121 7 8 .276 .322 .712
18 Akinori Iwamura .393 1526 2007 2009 28-30 1349 67 21 14 152 289 29 15 .281 .354 .747
19 Kazuo Matsui .393 1408 2007 2009 31-33 1261 70 11 19 105 207 71 12 .275 .330 .724
20 Edgar Renteria .395 1600 2007 2009 31-33 1457 71 4 27 122 210 24 7 .285 .339 .733
21 Brendan Harris .400 1519 2007 2009 26-28 1369 86 7 25 110 272 5 4 .272 .328 .728
22 Jason Bartlett .405 1631 2007 2009 27-29 1464 74 17 20 126 231 73 16 .290 .353 .758
23 Alberto Callaspo .408 1024 2007 2009 24-26 933 57 11 11 80 79 5 3 .288 .343 .752
24 Khalil Greene .408 1275 2007 2009 27-29 1170 66 5 43 69 263 11 2 .232 .278 .686
25 Mark Ellis .409 1559 2007 2009 30-32 1402 76 6 41 120 213 33 9 .259 .323 .732
Rk Player SLG PA To From Age AB 2B 3B HR BB SO SB CS BA OBP OPS
26 Freddy Sanchez .410 1750 2007 2009 29-31 1628 97 9 27 75 215 5 3 .289 .323 .732
27 Asdrubal Cabrera .411 1185 2007 2009 21-23 1034 71 6 15 107 195 21 8 .287 .355 .766
28 Cristian Guzman .423 1359 2007 2009 29-31 1284 65 18 17 54 153 12 10 .305 .334 .757
29 Jose Lopez .424 1901 2007 2009 23-25 1781 100 3 53 71 200 11 9 .275 .304 .728
30 Placido Polanco .424 1945 2007 2009 31-33 1785 101 10 27 108 119 21 6 .310 .356 .780
31 Juan Uribe .424 1348 2007 2009 27-29 1235 66 7 43 81 258 5 13 .255 .302 .726
32 Yunel Escobar .426 1546 2007 2009 24-26 1361 75 4 29 143 168 12 12 .301 .375 .801
33 Jhonny Peralta .426 1956 2007 2009 25-27 1761 104 6 55 160 406 7 7 .267 .329 .756
34 Rickie Weeks .429 1228 2007 2009 24-26 1031 48 15 39 156 270 46 9 .240 .355 .783
35 Alexei Ramirez .430 1115 2008 2009 26-27 1022 36 3 36 67 127 27 14 .283 .326 .755
36 Orlando Hudson .435 1687 2007 2009 29-31 1475 92 18 27 172 248 22 4 .293 .366 .801
37 Stephen Drew .436 1877 2007 2009 24-26 1687 101 27 45 150 296 17 4 .264 .322 .759
38 Miguel Tejada .437 1907 2007 2009 33-35 1781 103 5 45 84 175 14 10 .298 .336 .773
39 Kelly Johnson .438 1568 2007 2009 25-27 1371 85 19 36 163 284 27 13 .269 .349 .786
40 Howie Kendrick .438 1114 2007 2009 23-25 1052 71 7 18 41 190 27 12 .306 .338 .776
41 J.J. Hardy .441 1732 2007 2009 24-26 1575 77 7 61 135 256 4 5 .267 .325 .765
42 Derek Jeter .442 2098 2007 2009 33-35 1869 91 8 41 180 275 56 18 .319 .386 .829
43 Michael Young .442 1993 2007 2009 30-32 1825 109 5 43 149 306 31 6 .306 .359 .800
44 Jose Reyes .443 1694 2007 2009 24-26 1516 80 33 30 161 179 145 38 .288 .356 .799
45 Brian Roberts .444 2137 2007 2009 29-31 1864 149 14 37 245 315 120 24 .290 .370 .814
46 Ron Belliard .445 1181 2007 2009 32-34 1071 71 2 32 91 186 9 2 .286 .342 .787
47 Clint Barmes .446 1060 2007 2009 28-30 980 60 9 34 49 203 25 14 .262 .303 .749
48 Brandon Phillips .459 1955 2007 2009 26-28 1793 80 18 71 116 277 80 27 .276 .324 .783
49 Jeff Kent .461 1036 2007 2008 39-40 934 59 2 32 82 113 1 4 .291 .353 .815
50 Dustin Pedroia .462 2021 2007 2009 23-25 1799 141 4 40 171 139 47 10 .313 .375 .838
Rk Player SLG PA To From Age AB 2B 3B HR BB SO SB CS BA OBP OPS
51 Aaron Hill .464 1620 2007 2009 25-27 1495 98 2 55 99 231 14 7 .285 .331 .794
52 Jimmy Rollins .467 2128 2007 2009 28-30 1944 119 34 62 151 210 119 17 .275 .329 .796
53 Robinson Cano .474 1977 2007 2009 24-26 1851 124 12 58 95 213 11 16 .300 .337 .811
54 Ian Kinsler .483 1789 2007 2009 25-27 1567 95 10 69 166 227 80 9 .278 .351 .834
55 Dan Uggla .483 2015 2007 2009 27-29 1727 113 5 94 237 488 9 7 .249 .346 .829
56 Troy Tulowitzki .486 1731 2007 2009 22-24 1529 82 16 64 168 298 28 23 .286 .359 .845
57 Chase Utley .536 2007 2007 2009 28-30 1708 117 13 86 202 303 46 3 .301 .395 .931
58 Hanley Ramirez .549 2051 2007 2009 23-25 1804 124 11 86 205 318 113 34 .325 .398 .947
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 12/17/2009.
Jamey has two skills, he can take a walk, and he can play adequate defense. That might be the exact same skill set we are talking about with Ivan DeJesus in a few years but the difference is that one will be making the minimum for a few years and the other is getting paid 2 Million. Why does the 2 Million bug me for Carroll so much, because I have a nagging suspicion that we will end up trading more players for salary relief this winter.
Belliard has an extra skill that would have been perfect given what our configuration is going to be. He can mash left handed pitching, especially for a 2nd baseman, he can take a walk, he can hit for power. The only thing he doesn't do better then Carroll is play 3rd base. Now if you are Joe Torre and you have (DeWitt and Carroll) or ( DeWitt and Belliard), and Blake gets hurt would you really ask the utility 2nd baseman to play 3rd or would you simply move the gold glove level DeWit to 3rd and put the utility 2nd baseman at 2nd? If Ronny Belliard ends up signing somewhere for more then Jamey Carroll I'll be one surprised dude. I'd have waited this one out just like Ned said he was going to do. As Dave Cameron points out the where are the plethora of FA 2nd baseman going to land?
When we take a look in 2010 at what Abreu is doing for the minimum in Arizona compared to what an aging 2 Million dollar Carroll is doing for us, we will not be happy with the comparison. We need someone who can hit, Jamey Carrol can get on base, but to say he can hit seems a stretch. Nothing bothers me more then bench guys with no more skills then many AAA players getting more then the minimum. Not sure why, it is not my money.
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+1 MM
to everything you wrote. Especially the idea of just letting DeWitt play 3rd, and letting Ronnie play 2nd, if there is an injury or just days off.
PLUS, you know Eyechart is going to make the team and he could spell The Beard at 3B if needed.
Its a pointless signing since Carroll can’t play SS, and now our PH options are going to suck dick.
Strangely enough, the one thing Carroll can do is PH: .348 / .430 / .391 / .821, career. Small sample size alert: only 112 career PAs as a PH.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
That's not too small sample size
Its just too small of a sample size for when he has been old and sucked.
Perhaps you are right. Ridiculously irrelavant small sample sizes, but the one year he sucked at it was last season.
Season-by-season PH numbers:
I Year G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+source: baseball-reference.com
2003 18 18 17 3 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 5 .353 .389 .353 .742 6 1 0 0 0 0 0 .500 129 130
2004 31 31 25 6 8 1 0 0 2 0 0 5 4 .320 .433 .360 .793 9 1 0 1 0 0 0 .381 111 140
2005 13 13 10 2 4 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 3 .400 .455 .400 .855 4 1 0 2 0 0 0 .571 178 164
2006 17 17 14 3 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 4 .429 .529 .429 .958 6 0 0 0 0 0 1 .600 146 195
2007 14 14 10 3 3 0 0 1 4 0 0 2 1 .300 .417 .600 1.017 6 0 0 2 0 0 0 .250 232 206
2008 8 8 6 1 3 0 0 0 2 0 0 1 1 .500 .500 .500 1.000 3 0 0 0 1 0 0 .500 185 200
2009 11 11 10 0 2 0 0 0 3 0 0 1 3 .200 .273 .200 .473 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 .286 36 43
Career Total 112 112 92 18 32 1 0 1 12 0 0 14 21 .348 .430 .391 .821 36 4 0 5 1 0 1 .437 134
.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
The signing of Jamey Carroll (for two years) is obviously not a very efficient move, but it’s not one that could ever be considered catastrophic like the Pierre/A.Jones/Driefort signings (not even close). I won’t lose too much sleep over it, but when there is some obvious penny pinching going on that is effecting more important moves (Wolf arb), a move like this is rather irksome.
vr, Xei
Exactly
Its not catastrophic, but its pointless, and with money constraints $2 Million is $2 Million. And if it leads to selling off a good prospect to save $2 MM on a mid-season acquisition again, we can all point back to the $2 MM going to Carroll (amongst other things)
Irksome
is right. Less irksome then trading Abreu for Garland but irksom nonetheless when you are trying to find reasons to feel comfortable with Ned’s new five year deal.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 17, 2009 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
This move seems pointless to me
and I think the Dodgers are going to miss that home run potential on every swing that Belliard takes. I also like watching Belliards at-bats. They are exciting.
Mini Me Manny will be missed in the beginning, but with the Indians 2009 Good Guy award winner (Jon Weisman Link) in our clubhouse we will forget all about Mini Me Manny.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 17, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
My guess is that noted translator Angel Berroa (if he makes the club of course) will take the locker spot in the Manny/Furcal corner of the clubhouse, where Belliard settled in last year.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 17, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
If that is the reason we signed him
he better make everyone a better player just by looking at em
Belliard
At bats are always exciting because of his body type and the constant tongue action
by robotmadeofnails on Dec 17, 2009 11:22 AM PST reply actions
However, the Reds would have to eat much of it, as the Dodgers have financial limitations and Harang is guaranteed at least $15 million over the next year if he’s traded: $12.5 million in 2010 with a ‘11 option of $12.75 million and a $2 million buyout that climbs to $14 million/$2.5 million buyout if he’s traded.
Harang isn’t the only option. On the free-agent market, two pitchers the Dodgers acquired during the 2009 season — Vicente Padilla and Jon Garland — would also qualify, but both are looking for multi-year deals, which the club is determined to avoid.
I could get behind Garland/Padilla
but not for a multii-year deal. That is crazy talk. If life were like “Barney Miller,” Padilla would say, “I want a multi-year deal,” and Wojo/Ng would give a big pause and say, “Uh huh, Whaddaya think, Barn?,” and then Hal Linden/Ned Colletti would say, “Send ’im to Bellevue.”
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Dec 17, 2009 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
One of the best ensemble casts ever
EVER
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 17, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
My love for “Barney Miller” knows no bounds. Growing up, we got that show in syndication on WSBK 38 out of Boston, which we got via cable in Schenectady, New York.
You ask cops of that era what their favorite cop show was, and they’d say “Barney Miller.”
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Dec 17, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
I got the season one DVD a few years back, and it was the only Barney Miller DVD available. I just checked Amazon and season two was released in Jan 2008 (just not in time for Christmas), and season three in March of this year. Seasons four through eight remain unreleased.
I loved the addition of Steve Landesberg and the super-dry lines that the writers put in Dietrich’s mouth. Always though Landesberg should have played a trench-coated detective in a Zucker-style movie.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Dunno how much news this is, but:
https://twitter.com/dylanohernandez/status/6769123231
Dodgers resign Eyechart and Berroa to minor-league deals.
Jamey Carroll = A lot of warning track power on mistake fastballs.
At least Mark Loretta looked cool, like he surfed or something and cooked vegetarian most nights. Oh well, I am sure JC will grow on me in some odd way.
Loretta is cool
And despite nearing 40 years of age and being a family man he knows how to have fun. He once came to a party hosted by his much younger sister and had a blast partying with everyone, and even did a keg stand! I was impressed
Wonder who will sign Loretta as a coach? Heck of way to end his career on a high note.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Houston? He seemed very well liked there.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 17, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
Rob Neyer thinks the Harang rumor is a good idea
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/1831/reds-harang-a-good-fit-for-dodgers
If we yield now, all is over; but if we fight, there is yet a hope that we may stand upright
I don't really get all the Jamey Carroll hate...
He’s been worth 1.5 WAR each of the last two seasons, while Belliard’s been worth 1.7 and 1.3 (oh, and by the way, a 1.5 WAR free agent for $2 million is a good deal, generally). Belliard’s only a year younger and his body type ages worse. Plus, it’s just not accurate to say that the only thing Belliard doesn’t do better is play third base – Carroll is definitely better defensively (and that matters!), and just as good at getting on base. And DeJesus’ similar skill set is irrelevant until he’s actually ready to play.
Because he is our free agent class
I agree he’s not so bad he shouldn’t be on the roster. He just wasn’t quite the apple of our eye we were looking for.
Hate is strong word
I’d say we could have done better if we had waited. If your asking me my answer should be obvious given what I’ve written. I’m not a fan of weak hitting baseball players. Single and walk guys don’t float my boat. In general I have nothing against Carrol but I think players like him should never get more then a $1 Million deal no matter what WAR says. Normally I wouldn’t care much about the salary but these days it looks like every dollar is going to count.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
sherrill
i still think that the dodgers need to be looking to move sherrill. it’s a duplicated position with kuo, and i expect him to get @ 5 mil in arbitration. that money is fine for a quality set-up man in a major market, but the dodgers are not acting/spending like a big market team anymore. i would move him for salary relief, or a 4-5th starter type.
Dodgers lying has boxed them in.
Payroll slashing Dodgers have to do a little THINKING. They didn’t offer arbitration to Wolf and Hudson because they were afraid they might accept. Not a chance of with Hudson who wants to get as far away from Torre as he can get. Wolfie wanted to stay in L.A. but this was his last chance at his age to get a multiyear contract.
The Dodgers receive draft picks which are like currency. You don’t have to use them you can trade them. Trade Pierre for one MLB ready prospect and trade Sherril for two.
Use those prospects and draft picks for Lee. I think we could of put up a much better offer than Seattle.
Of course there was Lee’s contract for 9 million but after 2 million for this smuck it would be pocket change besides Lee would of sold out Dodger Stadium.
If not for Lee then for someone of his class even at another position that we could trade.
The Dodgers look like they are committing suicide
Let’s let one of our touted minor league pitchers, Stults, MacDonald,etc. to have the 5 spot. VERY few starting pitchers do well until the get a slot and pitch every fifth day to get their rhythm and sharpen their stuff.
you cannot trade draft picks in mlb
so packaging the picks we would have got by offering arb to these players is a mute point. and yes you do have to use them, of course you could use them to draft a lesser player in hopes of paying a smaller bonus, but that strategy makes no sense at all. Trying to come up with a method where the Dodgers could have got Lee without giving up way to much (Bills, Gordon,+) is so summer 2009.
by MammothDodger on Dec 21, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah I'm not too thrilled with the Carroll signing either.
I would have preferred someone like Felipe Lopez. Though I’m not sure if he was ever in the Dodgers price range…
"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana
by Chzburger Jones on Jan 8, 2010 12:27 AM PST reply actions
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