Eric Karros HOF case
by meercatjohn on Dec 28, 2009 9:34 AM PST
in All-Time Dodgers
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While perusing the HOF eligible group for 2010 I stumbled upon the fact that Eric Karros is on the ballot. Can we make a case for Eric? No question about it, not even Robert Downey's Sherlock Holmes could uncover enough clues to make a case for Eric Karros to be a HOF. That said does he have any attributes that would help his case?
1. Great Hair - in fact what is it about LA Dodger first baseman and their hair. Wes Parker parlayed his hair into a failed TV career, Steve Garvey used his hair to father one of the great Dodger blogs, Karros used his to become an annoying but successful baseball TV analyst. Does anyone on the 2010 HOF List have better hair then Eric Karros?
2. Most home runs by a LA Dodger first baseman with 270 eclipsing Garvery by 59 home runs.
3. Most cliches per minute then any other color analyst. "No Question" is his trademark answer when his play by play man throws him something to enlighten the baseball world with.
4. Never won ONE playoff game while a member of the Los Angeles Dodgers.
Okay, not much of a case, not even as good a case as Robin Ventura who also played a little first base for the Dodgers in 2003/2004. Still for many Dodgers fans who came of age in the early 90's Eric Karros was their favorite Dodger. Local boy who went to UCLA he was the guy who was never considered a real prospect. Drafted in the sixth round at the age of 20 in 1988 he climbed the minor league ladder every year and made his debut in Sept of 1991.
The team had finished in 2nd place in 1991 and they had acquired Eric Davis that winter, so the outfield looked to be one of the best in baseball with Davis/Butler/Strawberry. Sweet swinging Kal Daniels was expected to play 1st base. Everything went wrong that year except for one thing. Two games into the season and Daniels was hurt so Karros got the nod on April 9th. He hit a home run in the 1st inning against Craig Lefferts in his first start in 1992 and never looked back winning the 1992 ROY Award by a landslide over such notables as Moises Alou, Reggie Sanders, and Tim Wakefield.
That rookie season would start a run where Karros was the Dodger 1st baseman from 1992 - 2002, a span that was longer then any other LA Dodger 1st baseman. He had a series of thoroughly mediocre years but once in a while he'd kick in an excellent season such 1995, 1998, and 1999. If Eric Karros had left the Dodgers in 1999 he would be remembered much more fondly then he is but as happens with anyone who sticks around to long the downslope years of his career are now remembered more then his good years probably because he was getting a large contract and was not delivering the goods. During the last few years of his career I can remember him barely running to 1st base on any ground ball because of the pain in his knees,.or getting off to slow starts and telling everyone not to worry as though the games in April don't count as much as the games in Sept.
Eric Karros has no HOF case. He is not even the best LA Dodger first baseman, and more then likely is not even the 2nd best or 3rd best LA Dodger first baseman. However he did give the Dodgers plenty of great memories during his long reign. Mine was his home run in his first start of 1992 that started his career but along the way he must have given you some memories, good or bad. What were they?
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Dodgers of that era with better HOF Credentials
Gary Sheffield
Career OPS+ 140
Shawn Green
Career OPS+120 (good defense)
Kevin Brown
Career ERA+127. (ring in a box)
Compared to
Eric Karros
OPS+ 107. That’s pretty darn average.
Of these, I think Sheffield will make the hall. I left off Piazza because he will definitely make it.
Right.
Too short of a career. He was basically done at age 32, right? I’m convinced he lied about his age.
by Seanny Rotten on Dec 28, 2009 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah too short. Career OPS +113
He had his own demons. I read in a book by Mel Didier that he was on coke almost every off season and the Dodgers had to go down and clean up his messes every February before he went to Vero.
Shawn Green
being done at age 32 is what kills him. At the age of 31 he had HOF credentials but was unable to sustain it. Easily the starting right fielder on the LA Dodger Decade team.
by meercatjohn on Dec 28, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Speaking of which, someone (because I’m too damn lazy, lol) should make a post about the Dodger team of the decade. That would be pretty cool. I’ll probly do that later today, im just not in a mood to do anything right now.
We will choose an all-decade team starting next week. MSTI is currently doing one as well.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 28, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
I can not stand Karros
but his 99 season was great. He was a double machine that year, I think every one of them was deep in the LF gap.
I hope somebody else comes along and takes the LA Dodger HR crown away from him.
I saw Karros play at Dodger Stadium a minimum of twenty five times
and he homered in at least 20 of those games. Nice.
I saw Piazza play at Dodger Stadium like ten times and he homered once.
The guy who replaced Karros
had a career OPS+ of 134 hit 493 home runs and played for nearly 20 years.
Didn’t get to 500 home runs though, which I think was the entire reason the Dodgers signed him.
2003 was a very trying year offensively. I remember thinking McGriff had a very good chance at the 22 home runs he needed to get 500.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 28, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
Tampa Bay gave him a shot to get the 9 homeruns he needed the next season
he only got 2 though….
by Michael White on Dec 28, 2009 10:20 AM PST up reply actions
His fast fade
after a remarkably consistent season will cost him his HOF. It will be interesting how Roberto Alomar does. Amazing to me how HOF 2nd baseman like Sandberg and Alomar lose it so quickly. Baerga was no HOF but he also lost it in a blink of an eye.
by meercatjohn on Dec 28, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
I guess
but what a fade from an 150 OPS+ at age 33 to 89, 80, 81 and done. At age 33 there was discussion after that 150OPS+ season if he wasn’t going to go on to be one of the best 2nd baseman ever, now he will need to fight to get into the HOF.
by meercatjohn on Dec 28, 2009 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
While researcing this column
I found this nugget of an interview with Wes Parker.
I really found this quote very interesting when asked why he was not able to replicate his breakout offensive season of 1970.
He revealed, "Being a great hitter required so much effort I didn’t enjoy baseball any more. I worked so hard that year, and it required me to put so much concentration into the game that it was pure work. I wasn’t a natural hitter; it came hard for me. I had to think about baseball all day long. Then I had to get off by myself 20 minutes before each game to quiet down my mind. I had to stop doing clinics and guest appearances. There was no more of going to dinners and banquets. I could do no socializing. Just to maintain my focus I had to immerse myself in baseball to keep my mind totally involved, to the total exclusion of everything else, like enjoying life. Sure, that was my best year at the plate. But it was also the most unenjoyable year I had in major league baseball.
"That off season I said to myself that this game should be fun like it used to be, so I’m going back to enjoying myself. I still had good seasons the next two years. From ‘69 on I was an excellent clutch hitter. I adopted the attitude that it was not how many hits you get; it’s when you get your hits. My concentration was there when it needed to be, when the game was on the line and runners on base. But I couldn’t grind out the hits the way I did in 1970."
Very candid
I can’t recall seeing many (any) quotes like this before (which doesn’t mean there aren’t any – I don’t get around much). I’m sure he’s not the only one who found himself in a similar situation.
Moneyball made sort of the same point. Beane had a conversation with Lenny Dykstra where Beane was interested in reading/studying and Dykstra cared only about baseball. Dykstra was willing to be illiterate if it meant he could hit a baseball better, and Beane simply wasn’t.
by Michael White on Dec 28, 2009 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
My favorite Karros memory
was when he hit 2 homers in Game 2 of the 1995 NLDS against the Reds. Dodgers still lost 5-4 though, and I remember being very distraught.
It seemed
we lost every playoff game in the 90’s by one run.
by meercatjohn on Dec 28, 2009 10:20 AM PST up reply actions
Seriously
No one has any Eric Karros memories? The dude hit more home runs then any LA Dodger in History with Ron Cey 42 home runs behind him.
Based on the current team can anybody knock Eric off the top? Kemp or Andre have to be the plausible choices. Kemp has 61 and Andre 75 entering the 2010 season. So Kemp needs 209 and Andre 195. For any chance they would both need to be locked up after their FA years. 270 is no small feat for a career so the odds that either one could do it while remaining a Dodgers seems like a longshot. What Karros did is impressive from a counting numbers point of few. His career slug% however is only 16th best but that is not era adjusted so it doesn’t mean much. Just throwing it out there.
I’ve never been a Karros fan. Rightly or wrongly, I always felt his numbers were rather shallow and I never considered him a truly feared hitter (he seemed more like a mistake hitter). When Konerko was traded for Shaw, it really bothered me, as I was just starting to get serious about prospects and I knew Konerko was can’t-miss and just about ready. Re-signing “fan favorite” Karros was a truly bad baseball decision.
But that hair . . .
Not a ton of memories for me
When Karros won the ROY in 92 I was in the third grade. As you can imagine, most of the memories I have of Karros came much later (as I identified him above with guys like Green) so he was already on the back end of his career. I didn’t really get into baseball (short of playing little league and such) until 2000 or so.
by Michael White on Dec 28, 2009 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
I have a vague recollection
of Karros hitting a homerun in a Philly blowout, during a Dodger game that I went to when I was visiting from the east coast as a teen. At least it gave the few fans that were there something to cheer. I’m 99% sure that this was the game:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN199207050.shtml
I’ve always appreciated that Karros was a true Dodger, and at least gave the franchise a steady (if unspectuclar) presence during some pretty dark times. And hey- T J Simers liked him, which isn’t an easy feat, so there must be SOMETHING to the guy!
2nd half of 2000...wow
Karros never made an all-star team, but came close a few times. In 2000, Karros was hitting .265/.356/.553 with 25 HR and 70 RBI in 83 games at the break, but was not chosen to replace the injured Mark McGwire on the All-Star roster. Instead, manager Bobby Cox went with a SS, Edgar Renteria (the NL didn’t have a backup for Barry Larkin), much to the Dodgers chagrin:
Karros had the best first half of his career, batting .265 with 25 home runs and 70 runs batted in. He is in the league’s top 10 in homers and RBIs.
Karros and Todd Helton of the Colorado Rockies are tied for the most RBIs among NL first baseman. With McGwire sidelined, either Helton or Atlanta’s Andres Galarraga will start the All-Star game.
It was completely defensible to leave Karros off that All-Star team, but I’m struck by two things about his 2000:
1) just how good his first half was (from ASB in ’99 to ASB in ’00, Karros hit .289/.364/.554, with 42 bombs and 133 RBI in 153 games!)
2) just how awful his second half was
After his monster 1st half, Karros hit just .232/.278/.351 with 6 HR and 36 RBI (batting 4th or 5th every game he started). He was pretty much done after that as a Dodger, even though he was around for 2 more seasons. He had just signed a 3-year, $24 million extension in February 2000, too.
Holy crap
99 ASG to 00 ASG numbers are pretty sick. What I wouldn’t give to have Loney (or any Dodger really, lol) put up those numbers for an entire season…why are things so impossible :(
I honestly don’t see Ethier ever hitting more than 35 homeruns in a year. I could see Kemp hitting 40 homeruns, but at the cost of stolen bases and average. Though if he could become an Alfonso Soriano who could learn to take walks we could have an epic player on our hands.
i could seee ethier hitting 40 homers..
he has a great swing.. and once he learns to hit some home runs in away games.. i think 40 is a good number..
kemp i have no idea what hes going to hit..
Amazing that Ethier is opposite
Loney with the Home/Road splits. I wish there was some way to fix both of them.
Thats assuming he will still hit that many homeruns at home
which is not a normal thing for someone to do at Dodger Stadium.
Can this outfield hit 100 home runs?
Andre 38, Kemp 32, Manny 30
Could happen.
Can the rest of the team not even hit 50?
Loney – 14, DeWitt/Carroll – 8, Furcal – 7, Blake 13, Martin – 8
Could happen.
I think the outfield will be around 90 homeruns
I’ll say 29 from Eithier, 34 from Kemp, and 28 from Manny.
i gotta go with
ethier 36
kemp 32
manny 24
Infield projections are a bit pessimistic. Loney could flirt with 20, DeWitt has 12 bombs in that bat at least, Furcal is streaky but could go on a binge, Blake is a lock for a pedestrian 15, and Martin is bound to improve a little.
but those are all on the high side..
i say loney 16
dewitt 9
furcal 8
blake 15
martin 7
I don't think Loney will hit 20
“Flirt” with 20. Like 17-18.
DeWitt has loft in his swing, which leads me to believe he’ll have some pop with a decent amount of playing time.
1995 for me
Offerman made the all-star team over Eric Karros. It was the last time I can remember booing a Dodger for no fault of their own. I actually had seats for once very close to the field and booed every time Offerman came after he made the all-star team. His errors by then had driven me crazy.
Maybe he went Wes Parker
on us and decided that hitting was to much hard work. Easier to kick back with the big contract.
Seriously didn’t his knee problems flair up big time right about then?
If it was I'd put Karros
on it. For all his pedestrian numbers I’d have a hard time keeping Karros out of the Dodger HOF.
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