Winter Meetings Day 1: Dodgers Shopping Pierre?
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 8:26 AM PST
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PrintToday is the first day of the winter meetings in Indianapolis. Everyone who is anyone in baseball has descended upon Indianapolis for four days. This is the peak of the hot stove season, and there will be rumors galore for most of this week. There will be a lot of news that isn't really news, so remember to take everything with a grain of salt. That said, this is a pretty exciting and fun few days.
Today's highlights:
- The Dodgers are shopping Juan Pierre, says Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times. Steve Henson of Yahoo says three or four teams are interested. Expect a pitcher with an inflated contract in return.
- George Sherrill is rumored to be on the block, says Ken Rosenthal and John Paul Morosi of Fox Sports. If the Dodgers are operating on the margins of their budget, this makes sense, as Sherrill will likely make as much as $4 million in arbitration, quite a high salary for a non-closer
- The veterans committee today elected manager Whitey Herzog and umpire Doug Harvey to the Hall of Fame today. Former players' union chief Marvin Miller was left out.
- Today is the deadline for players to accept arbitration offers from last week. All zero of the Dodgers offered arbitration are expected to do nothing. Actually, an intriguing story is that reliever Rafael Soriano may accept arbitration from the Braves. If he does, Soriano would combine with Billy Wagner and Takashi Saito in the best back end of the bullpen in the majors (if not a fragile trio).
For a good overview of the winter meetings, read this Fan Post by BHSportsGuy, who saw first hand last year's meetings in Las Vegas.
Mark Timmons of LA Dodger Talk is in Indianapolis and at the winter meetings. Be sure to check his site for updates.
This is the first winter meetings of the Twitter era, so the information will be fast and furious. If you want to follow True Blue LA on Twitter, go to twitter.com/truebluela.
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aand the braves have brian bruney now.
what they have an excellent bullpen.. one of the best if soriano accepts
who should they trade instead then?
d lowe is almost untradeable.. hanson and jurrjens are young studs and they just signed hudson and kawakami will kil their relationship with japan if they trade him..
Steve Henson reports
Yes, the Braves want to deal Lowe or Vazquez, but source says not Kenshin Kawakami (3.86 ERA), who has 2 years and $13.4M left on his deal
lowe is pretty much untradeable..
so it looks like vasquez will probably be dealt
Depends on the return I guess
But I am not as bullish on the Braves without Vazquez
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
To bad he hates the West Coast
I love Vazquez
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Maybe his wife has changed her tune by now :)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
Vazquez – gone after 2010
Lowe
Hanson
Jurrjens
Hudson
with Kawakami in reserve. Looks good on paper and if Chipper can stave off old man winter for one more year they might just have an enough offense. If Soriano does accept arbitration that would be a shitload of money tied into the bullpen and it might not be all that great. I have grave doubts about Wagner or Saito, and Soriano himself is not Mr. Healthy. I could see better places to spend money then on old closers coming off of surgery or an old pitcher in general.
They need a guy like Sherrill who never gets hurt.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I almost wrote that
then I checked and say that his XERA was 4.85 compared to his sub 4.00 ERA but I still think I’d do that deal if nothing better came my way.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I was trying to check earlier on Hardball Times for his x-FIP but their player pages are gone, because they made a deal with Fangraphs. So if you do a player search now on Hardball Times, it takes you to the Fangraphs page instead (his FIP was 4.21).
I’m assuming Fangraphs will eventually incorporate x-FIP, because otherwise mwhite06 will be an unhappy camper. :)
This news does not please me.
Maybe Fangraphs won’t incorporate x-FIP because they believe they have a better stat in WAR. I would disagree with that, but it wouldn’t surprise me if x-FIP is gone.
By the way, I looked up Kawakami’s x-FIP a few weeks ago when somebody floated the idea of trading for him and I wasn’t too pumped about it. Can’t remember the exact number though, but Phil mentioning that his xERA of 4.85 is about what I remember.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
The shitty part of dealing Sherrill is that the Dodgers have to “win” that deal. Otherwise we will lament Josh Bell for two months of Sherrill for a while (which of course we still could lament even if Sherrill stays).
That's what happens
when you get a guy built to get the big lefties out in the postseason and he fails.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
sherrill
for hanson..
or sherrill for kawakami/johnson
You know the first line
is pure fantasy, but the 2nd would have been possible before they outlaid so much money for Wagner/Saito.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
lol yup.. just read that now..
its just a rumor..
the yankees will recieve in return for bruney...
..
..
..
…
……
……….
…………..
………………..
Stephen Strasburg and a few lower minor leaguers..
Heh
Joel Sherman says PTBNL, but I somehow doubt it’s Strasburg :)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
Red Sox sign reliever Scott Atchison
who was in Japan for 2 years…one year deal, with two option years (per Rosenthal)
I only care because he is the closest player in the majors to my exact birth date (he is one day later).
Not many of those going to be left soon:)
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Thought this quote was interesting
from Joe Strauss in the STL Post-Dispatch:
Several within the organization privately rooted last summer for the team to land Dunn over Holliday. However, the Nationals remained disinclined to deal Dunn at the time. They have since changed general managers and managers
Both Holliday and Dunn
seem like they would be good fits in San Louis.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
Bad contracts
Arroyo, Harang, Millwood, Oliver Perez, Gil Meche, Castillo – any others in play
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
not gil meche
too much money on his contract..
Paying more
but you are getting a rotation guy for a 4th outfielder so while not saving money they would not need to spend anymore money for a rotation guy.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I don't think Meche is out of bounds
If the Dodgers end up trading Pierre for a pitcher or someone with less total money on the contract, it’s likely they would have to throw in money anyway.
I'd do Arroyo or Harang for Pierre
in a second. But I think it would need Dusty Baker’s strong influence for that to happen. ;-)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
I'd do Pierre for Millwood
one second before I’d do the Reds deal.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I'd do that one too
Done and done. What papers do we have to sign to make it official?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
If you could do a blockbuster trade
that makes sense for both teams,(Dodgers don’t add salary) what would it be. I mean a big deal where Manny is headed back to the AL as a DH. If we are going to pay attention to rumors on this day then lets have some fun.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Here's one
Manny + Pierre + Sherrill + Blake for Miguel Cabrera + Edwin Jackson
by CarolinaDodger on Dec 7, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
I played with a few Miggy scenarios
but in the end we all know we can’t take on a contract like his as much as I’d like to dream about it.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
What's the best scenario there?
Even money and a slightly better defensive left fielder if we traded for equal value.
I don’t see the point. Really the only surplus we have is pitching (with projected restocks in minors), so it wouldn’t make sense give up a big bat.
Dumping Manny’s and Pierre’s and Kuroda’s contract would be the only blockbuster, but we certainly would not get equal value, so net it would hurt the team.
Funny comment from the Tigers blog
Bless You Boys, re: Pierre:
I wish I had an extra set of hands so I could give the thought of acquiring Pierre four thumbs down
That was great, I'd like that as a tag line
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Pierre for Halladay!
Problem solved. ;-)
#delusionaltradeproposalMonday
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
On a good note
the day so far has been filled with moving Pierre/Sherrill instead of moving Kershaw, Billingsley, and Kemp which used to dominate our rumors, out best for their overpriced average players.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 7, 2009 9:47 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
The counterargument is that we never actually traded Kershaw, BIlllingsley, and Kemp when they were rumored in trades. Now that they aren’t, they can now be traded in non-rumors!
Scary
I was just thinking that after I posted. We are always afraid aren’t we?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
We have Ned Colletti as a GM. It took him 5 years to become half-decent, and the worry is that he’ll never be good enough to be considered above average.
hes below average
until he stops selling our prospects..
He's average for the one's that don't get fired
Which could mean he’s above average (scary thought).
Good morning!
Trading Pierre and Sherrill for salary relief and some decent talent would be great.
As for 2B, now that Scutaro and Polanco are gone, does that assure us of going in-house? I figured those were Ned’s targets.
Lopez would be a good addition…but I doubt he’s interested in a 1 yr deal. Ned will only give out 1 yr deals this time around.
maybe he will be hudson 2.0
wait too long.. no market for him and boom hes dodger property on a 1 year deal
wow
i read somewhere the dodgers where talking with his agent…
please no..
I figure an in-house combo of DeWitt with an occasional starter FA like Belliard for 2B
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
if joe blanton is available...
which team would trade for him.?? knowing that he will make over 6.5 million dollars a year next year..
I would imagine a number of teams would be interested in Blanton on a one-year deal.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
From Dylan Hernandez
Nothing to the rumors linking Pierre to the Pirates. Pittsburgh doesn’t want to trade its pitching
I tweeted this earlier
but Arrested Development is on sale for $29 — the whole series, all 3 seasons — on Amazon.com today
Thanks for the tip Eric
Just ordered it
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
with all the talk being about our starting pitchers and 2nd basemen holes
what about Back up Catcher?
Are we going to sign someone or is it AJ ellis?
If I had to guess, Ausmus will likely be back for one more run at it.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
Anyone have a Kindle and if so what do you think of it?
I’m thinking of getting one for my Dad.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I have never used one
I limit my reading small text on a tiny screen to reading True Blue LA on my iPhone :)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
I've had some serious
readers tell me it is awesome but I wanted more feedback. Nothing like carrying a 1500 book library on a 10 ounce product.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Yeah
That would be the huge upside obviously. I guess eyesight will play a role
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
I got one for my Mom. No way of knowing if she will use it, but if not I will get it.
A friend who has one, and my sister, both say it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread once you get used to reading on it, which takes a week or so.
I'm going with that idea also
if he won’t use it, I’ll probably end up with it.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
As a librarian and personally
I am against it. Job security and whatnot. My one real argument against it is that by using electronic books, people miss out on the tactile enjoyment of the artwork of the book. SImilar to music these days. It cheapens the experience of getting a tangible thing in your hands that someone maybe spotted with their eyes and it attracted it to them. Kindle are also much less versatile….you cannot just throw it in your back pack or let your friend borrow it if it was a great read.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
True
but if you were like like my Dad who lost his Civil War collection in a flood, you never lose the information inside the book since Amazon keeps track of each of your purchases. And I haven’t had a friend borrow a book of mine in over 35 years.
GIven the popularity of MP3’s I would think that having your hands on the book/LP/CD is something that will pass away in time and only those young enough to ever actually hold a book will really care about losing that. It is why I would not expect my Dad to embrace the technology but he’s already read every book in his small library in a town of 1,000 people and to buy a book every time would wipe out his limited storage ability. His choices are very limited right now and this would expand everything from books to papers to magazines.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Electronic storage is good for things like floods and backing up
important information. I agree on this. I disagree that books/lp’s/cd’s will die out. They have reorganized and found a niche market is what has happened. I know a few record shop owners who have actually enlarged their LP vinyl products because that market has grown in the last 10 years. There are old school guys like me and my cohorts who love records and playing sides, but there are also young people who learn that sonically, there is nothing that matches analog signal. So it isn’t out of the question for a ten year old kid to eventually buy a record player because old and new bands still record to analog tape. Someone like the Ramones to modern acts like Wilco and Jenny Lewis have been noted for recent analog recordings.
As for the room your father needs, a kindle is great for storage needs. But I still like the experience of being able to buy someone a book I liked or to let them borrow it. I am not against modern technology, but I have a problem with the perception that is better quality. You do lose a lot of quality in my opinion. Sorry for the rant. I am a dork.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
personally
there is nothing like a book in your hands to enjoy reading. There is a lot to be said for the book, it doesn’t need batteries, can be dropped, put on a shelf and treasured, is foldable, etc. For certain kinds of reading though, electronic makes a lot of sense.
Those are my main arguments for books.
They are durable. :)
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
Have you seen the amount of textbooks we give kids today? Not to turn this “DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN RANT”, but a typical kid has to carry about 3 or 4 textbooks in his locker, class, and carry it from home to school. Using a Kindle and just uploading the information and the text should be cheaper than having to buy 5 or 6 textbooks per student.
But then the fun of making book covers out of paper bags is lost! Lost!!!!
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Ditto that
Parents/Children/Teachers/Trees would all be for every kid using a Kindle. Problem would be they would lose it and then what? I think I lost about 10 watches when I was a kid before my parents finally figured out that I just couldn’t be trusted with one.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I think you are paying for the publication/author fees
not necessarily the production of the material needed for the book. Uploading a book will still cost you. You make a good point about the convenience of not having to carry a large load of books……
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
I am an old guy who have never used a Kindle, but I loathe reading more than a page or two of text from a screen. When I have to read several pages or more or some electronic document at work, I print the damn thing out.
Electronic books are great for reference material that you want to search through, not so much for books that you want to read cover-to-cover, IMHO.
Lenny Dykstra says not to read at all because it is bad for your eyes.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I think you have to try the kindle before making judgment
the people I’ve talked to who use the Kindle also hated reading off of laptops and such.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Love my Kindle
It is really not just for the tech savvy. The screen is nothing like a computer or cell phone, it is actually very easy on the eye. Text size can also be changed to make it easier. Since I’ve had mine, I’ve also purchased one for my wife, both of my parents, and my mother-in-law. That being said, I’ve heard really great things about the new Sony reader.
maybe carp and wainright can teach him how to throw a
real major league curveball
In turn
Penny can show them how to run their fingers through their hair and/or yell at opponents and teammates :)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Great
now Duncan can turn him into a Cy Young candidate. Penny has the kind of stuff Duncan might be able to do some good things with.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Yeah, I still think Penny has some gas left in the tank
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
Apparently he is close to re-signing with the Mets. Darn :)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
Can Giovanni
be far be behind. He of the mystical ability to conquer any batter who enters the Ravine.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Bob Nightengale on the Tigers
The Detroit Tigers are close to trading starter Edwin Jackson, perhaps as early as today, and still hope to trade CF Granderson this wk
No other team listed…yet
wowwwwww
i realy wonder where hes going.. it isnt going to be the dodgers tho..
I expect they
will get more the Joyce this time around. One of the few recent trades the Rays failed at.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
its not a failed trade yet..
tampa was not going to pay for edwin anyways.. and joyce is not a bust yet.. he is still there right fielder of the future..
True
but I doubt Joyce is their RF of the future.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Why
aren’t more teams in on Granderson?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Kind of surprising. Maybe turned off by his relatively down year, plus struggles against LHP
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
Still a top 10 CF though, and hopes that the struggles against CF are a combination of SSS issues, plus BABIP funkiness.
Sure
Just trying to figure out why the lukewarm demand
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
I wish I could find LD% on splits
but Granderson against LHP is a lost cause at this point.
689 career PA, .614 OPS
.262 BABIP against LHP, but at one point isn’t that a fluke? Does he not hit the ball as hard off LHP? That’s why I would like to know the LD% split.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
like ethier vs leftys o nthe road last year,,,
it was hilarious.. he either did a mile high pop up or a weak grounder vs LHP on the road..
At some point
strong RHH who only kill LHP will come back in vogue instead of just throwing outs away on those who have proven they will not hit LHP.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Olmedo Saenz is doing a Rocky IV style workout right now.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
Lots of his types
but I’m talking about outfielders and infielders not DH guys.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
It's a bit easier now to find LD% splits
Check out this site:
http://video-moments.com/joe/batter_card.php?pid=434158
It also has a pitch f/x tool that outputs a spreadsheet, making it a lot easier to calculate those splits.
I would really like to see Edwin back in blue
But will only give up Trayvon straight up (he can replace Granderson at some point).
From Jon Heyman
#tigers seek youg pitching for edwin jackson. execs believe he’ll be dealt
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
who do you think dodgers would offer for edwin..
sherrill and elbert? sherrill and jmac?
Elbert and JMac
our last two minor league pitchers of the year for our past winner of minor league pitcher of the year. Good times.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
If you ever wanted to see the inner workings of a team's winter meetings hotel suite
Here are the Astros, courtesy of Alyson Footer of MLB.com
Jason Bay apprently wants 5 years/$80 million. Andre Either and his agents must be licking his slips at hearing that.
Jason Bay
may not heard but times have changed. If he gets that from anyone other then the top 5 payroll teams I’ll be shocked.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Or maybe he'll move from Newton
to an even nicer part of Newton
by Humma Kavula on Dec 7, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
kevin correia
he might be non tendered by the padres after earning only 1.1 million last year and having a great year… Wow what a cheap move by the padres if they do.. how sad..
He said he had a great year last year
Not that he was a double amputee with limb re-attaching surgery performed over the Summer :)
by Cool Dudes on Dec 7, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He'd have to be happy about that
given that he should score even more in the free market then arbitration. He had a solid year and was even okay on the road.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
correia will defintly be happy..
The padre fans… not so much..
Mark Timmons of LA Dodger Talk is in Indianapolis at the Winter Meetings.
http://www.ladodgertalk.com/2009/12/winter-meetings-12709-2pm-est-10-things/
3. There Dodgers payroll will not be over $90 million next year as they are "cash poor." It may be less!
by Julio Nievas on Dec 7, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t buy that. Mark has made some incorrect payroll assumptions in the past, and I assume he is off again here.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
The only way to get there would be trade Sherrill and Pierre and realize savings from both deals. Otherwise they are over $90m even if they don’t add much, aren’t they?
They could do it
Paul SImons says there are 50 ways to get below 90 Million
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I still think December 12 (this Saturday) will be a big newsday
Martin is probably being quietly shopped (sworn to secrecy at the Winter Meetings) and if there isn’t enough interest, he and his future $6M salary will be cut loose.
I might take that bet
I could really see Martin being moved. No need to block Santana anymore. Plus we can move Blake now that Bell has improved enough at 3rd base to handle the job defensively.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
That joke is getting old.
I can not wait for these 2 to fail in the bigs so everyone can pipe down about this.
i agre with delias man
i want them to fail.. fail miserably.. or maybe get a big contrct then fail.. so at least it wont be that messed up
It's not their faults our Owner is a fricking douche
I seriously hope Bell succeeds, I got to see he (and Santana actually) play a game against the Red Sox Single A and beat them 25-1. Bell was 4-5 :(
Why So?
we spend hours upon hours discussing our prospects and while Santana has not had one single major league at bat he’s won two straight MVP trophies and is now a top 10 prospect in baseball. If he was a Dodger he would be all that we’d be talking about.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
There are a million cases of kids flaming out. I just think that it is getting old that people are still going on about the trade. You can not judge these trades for years down the line. Like any kid, I will believe it when I see it. Don’t you roll your eyes when someone brings up the Pierre debate? That is where I am at with this.
we CAN judge this trade now
As we all know, the Dodgers just had to give up a measly TWO MILLION DOLLARS (ie. a little over 50 cents per ticket sold in a season), and they could have had Santana AND Casey Blake! To put it another way, there would have been no need to risk trading a blue-chip prospect if the McCourts had been willing to pony up a fraction of the money they spend on themselves. Yet they still raise ticket prices, with no intention of putting that extra cash towards the team- and this was BEFORE their personal lives imploded! Unreal.
There is nothing the McCourts won’t try to get away with, so long as they think the public won’t notice. My hope is that in 2 or 3 years, Josh Bell and Carlos Santana are among the best position players in baseball, right behind Kemp, Ethier and Loney (who will all hopefully still be wearing Dodger blue). Their success is the best chance that your everyday fan will really see just how bad for the Dodgers the McCourts have really been.
There are also five hundred thousand cases of kids making it. The people making the trades have to judge them now, not years down the line, therefore it is reasonable for pundits to analyze it as well, based on what we know. If the stats on a kid are great and the scouts love him, then he must be considered some sort of good asset, doesn’t he?
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Based on what we know the Dodgers were able to stop the revolving door at 3B that has been going on since Beltre left. They filled in a glaring need. Nobody here was in the room and know what happened between the Indians and Dodgers. I am not saying Blake is much better than league average at anything, but if you have to judge it today based on MLB production which is all that really matters here?
if you have to judge it today based on MLB production which is all that really matters here?
Not really, no. There is also opportunity cost. Santana could have been used to nab a better player. How did the Indians get a better prospect for Blake than for CC Sabathia?
I believe it was
about 10 months ago when Eric said he never wanted to hear the word Carlos Santana on TBLA ever again or he was going to punch a baby. Welcome to the Dark Side amigo.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
The people making the trade didn’t judge it then or today on MLB production only, so why should we? The circumstantial evidence is pretty strong that Santana was added to the deal so get Cleveland to send the $2M cash to cover Blake’s salary, which is the basis of my objection to having Santana in the deal.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by Delias
even commenting on my flippant comment we have now extended this long long past what that comment deserved. Not time I’d just suggest ignore if you don’t want a debate about it.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
If they can't come to a deal
The Martin arb case will go like this:
Dodgers argue Martin is in decline, point to 2009 and/or post 2008 ASB numbers, etc
Martin’s side will argue career stats, young catcher, most innings in MLB caught since he joined Dodgers, 2-time all-star, etc
~50% raises in arbitration are pretty normal.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
Are they normal
when the player has sucked the prior year? I mean we are not talking 1/2 a million to 1 million we are talking 3 million to 6 million coming off a terrible season. He wasn’t much better then Navarro offensively and Navarro already lost his job. Luckily for him he can point to Navarro as someone he was better then.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Garrett Atkins was 20th of 28 MLB 3B in 2008, at 96 OPS+, with a few previous good seasons, and no all-star appearances. He went from $4.3875m in 2007 to an arbitration hearing with the following figures:
team – $6.65m (51.6% increase)
player – $7.95m (81.1% increase)
They settled at $7.05m, a 60.7% increase.
Even if Atkins went to arb and lost, he would have received a 51.6% increase.
Martin was 18th of 28 catchers in OPS+ in 2009. Get prepared for the new $6 million man
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
Wait, my math sucks. Okay, a roughly 33% pay increase for one of the worst offensive performance in the majors? :)
Is this mini-thread serious? Do people really think that Martin will be “cut loose?” what does “cut loose” even mean? I read that as meaning “released,” which I have to doubt will happen.
by Humma Kavula on Dec 7, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
Good gosh amighty.
If that happens, what will I do with all of my "Humma Kavula [Heart]s Russell Martin pillows?
by Humma Kavula on Dec 7, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
If they were afraid
of the arbitration costs for Wolf and Hudson why wouldn’t they be scared of paying Martin six million if Eric is right on the math? No where can the Dodgers save more money then cutting Martin loose while replacing his production with a cheaper solution. Not saying it is going to happen but it would not surprise me in the least if it did.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
The problem is that they have nobody who can catch in the next 2 or 3 years.
Unless the Dodgers actually think a Lucas May/A.J. Ellis platoon is actually viable.
Nobody internally
which makes it unlikely but journeyman catchers abound. What did the Rays just give up to get a 2 Million Dollar Shoppach?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
The problem is all the would-be acquisitions to replace Martin are gone, except for of course Bengie Molina, who may end up a Met.
And we all know a baby gets punched in the face if Molina ends up a Dodger
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
Punching a baby seems like an overreaction
seeing as how Molina was a better player than Martin last year and will cost quite a bit less.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
Like hell he was. Molina was the one who played in a hitters environment according to park factors.
.265 /.285 /.442 for a 86 OPS+ for Bengie Molina.
.250/.352/.329 for a 86 OPS+ for Russell Martin.
So they were the same at hitting
I personally think Martin was a horrible defensive catcher, but that should be considered too, no?
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
Ha
Actually, you are right. He wasn’t (at least according to this metric)
101 Russell Martin LAD 5205 1.5 -5.1 -0.7 1.0 -3.3
102 Bengie Molina SFG 4582 -1.0 -2.6 0.9 -0.6 -3.4
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2009/10/13/1082419/2009-catcher-defense-filling-in
So basically, Martin and Molina were the exact same player.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
but at least molina will offer the excitement of
Maybe hitting a homerun..
Given that OBP is more important than Slg% in terms of run production, Molina was worse.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
But the
huge difference in slug between the two still makes them even per wOBA.
Face it guys, for 2009 the hated Molina was just as bad as Martin.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
it would be better then a team of
low OBP average slugging
Most people would agree
that OBP is more important than SLG.
The most important thing in baseball is the ability to not make an out.
And the Yankees don’t have low OBP.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
The Padres team OBP was .321, ten points lower than the NL as a whole, .331.
The highest NL team OBP was the Dodgers at .346, who were 7th in Slg% with a just above average .412. They managed to win the most game in the NL.
Low OBP, high Slg%? Arizona: .324 / .418
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Out of curiosity
Do you foresee a bounceback season for Martin — something more like 2008? Or is 2009 his true level? Or do you think he declines further?
by Humma Kavula on Dec 7, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
Has to bounceback
can’t be any worse then he was last year. I don’t think we ever see the man we referred to as the Golden God again. I would not release him, but we really don’t know what the financial picture is for the Dodgers and the biggest saving on the team would be to cut him loose. I’d spend the six million and see what happens in 2010 because he if doesn’t bounce back then let him go but don’t be premature.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I was working off the estimate somebody else brought up that he would cost about half Martin would.
But I really have no idea on that front….
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
Even if Molina was better in 2009, which I don’t think he was (especially given the relative value of OBP), one catcher will be 27 in 2010, and one will be 35. Surely that is a factor
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t want to see Molina up at the plate in Dodger Blue hacking at the first pitch.
It's always darkest just before dawn
Would like to see him trotting around the bases
after a home run?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I never quite understood your reaction to Molina?
Care to explain? Other then being old, he’s got skills. OB is not one of them but it is the only skill he does not possess.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Being a 35 year old catcher going on 36 is a big strike against him.
It's always darkest just before dawn
I don't mean to say
that Molina is a good catcher anymore but neither is Martin.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I like Molina’s power, and he would be a fine backup catcher, but he never walks, is the slowest player in baseball, and doesn’t throw out runners anymore (although that has a lot to do with pitchers too).
It’s more that Martin has a much better chance to have a better season in 2010 and/or 2011 than Molina
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
What kind of season
would Martin have to put up to be worth $6m?
by Humma Kavula on Dec 7, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
The same but
I don’t put any credence into that.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4616&position=C
If you believe in Fangraphs dollar conversions of WAR, even his crappy 2009 season was worth $9.1 million.
Would be fun to have the
1 Billion Dollar payroll that fangraphs must use.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
This is going to sound snotty but I really mean it
What relation does Fangraphs have to reality? Is there any kind of page I can read that can even sort of sell me on that?
by Humma Kavula on Dec 7, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
I will not sell you something
I don’t believe in.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
It's just that I see it quoted a lot
I mean, not that Rob Neyer is the be-all end-all but he’s surely earned respect, and he cites Fangraphs values. Still, I haven’t read anything at all that implies it has any more meaning than throwing darts. If I’m wrong, I’ll happily stand corrected.
Until then I consider it something to cite when it agrees with my point and something to ignore when it doesn’t :-)
by Humma Kavula on Dec 7, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
I think WAR is and can be useful, but their tying it to a salary worth is off.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
For fun
we should build the Dodger Payroll based on WAR. Or what team has the highest payroll based on WAR.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Yankee's already
pay based on WAR values:) Okay how about the team that has the highest WAR net value (WAR Value – Actual Payroll)
Tampa
Dodgers
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Actually I have to agree
I’ve always found him a fun player to root for even though it goes against my OB leanings.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
yeah it would..
i bet they gave up holt..
or jon neise..
or MAYBE they traded luis castillo and some prospect for jackson
Haha
Price just said “the Rumor was Heard in the Lobby”
hahaha he heard some guy whispering to the other that edwin got ttraded to the mets..
Mets official Ken davidoff
denies the rumor of jackson to mets.
Amezaga
per Joe Frisaro, Marlins beat writer:
Marlins The Dodgers are inquiring about Alfredo Amezaga
Amezaga can play the outfield and infield, and won’t ever cost much. He is arbitration eligible though. And also this will be an excuse to not play Hu again.
i dont know
maybe ching lung for amezega or maybe someone like elbert.. thats how ned deals..
elbert hahaha
the sad part, colletti might be that dumb
by hirambocachica on Dec 7, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
But shouldn’t there be someone in the minor leagues who could that type of job
It's always darkest just before dawn
Does Torre
every play anyone who made a bad first impression?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Pitchers more than position players?
He put Stults on his eternal shit list, but he used McDonald and Elbert as relievers after McDonald failed, and Elbert made the post season roster as a LOOGY.
But
McDonald made a huge first impression in Sept/Oct 2008.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
You can't really say FUCK
over a backup infielder can you?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Good God I hope so
otherwise I’ll be saying more then Fuck
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I thought he'd be of interest as a
utility guy, no? He’s very useful that way, not so much as a starter. Or am I missing something? Would the price be too high for him as a utility guy? Sounds like he’d be had cheap…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
isnt that the guy who just annoys the hell out of chad billingsley..
bills just cant get the guy out if i remember correctly
Full Tweet from Jon Heyman:
juan pierre talked about in trades by #dodgers. #mets would consider luis castillo for pierre
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
castilo has a good OBP
it wouldnt be bad..
Castillo can't play shit for defense though.
Even if you’re not a fan of UZR, the scouting reports will say that Castillo can’t play D anymore.
We'd save
four million per year and have an OB machine at 2nd with DeWitt backing him up. Big part of Kensai’s offseason plan and I don’t see much downside to it.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
cant the guy play D tho?
he is too old to play D
Nope
From Bill James / John Dewan, on plus minus, Castillo ranked among MLB 2B:
2009: 31st
2008: 32nd
2007: 23rd
2006: 21st
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
Yucko
now I remember why I wasn’t sold on the swap of bad contracts. I’d forgotten that little tidbit.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
It’s a feasible deal in that it is bad contract for bad contract, and that the Dodgers “fill a need” at 2B.
Upside is Castillo’s OBP. Downside is fact that he might be the worst defensive 2B in baseball. Still a reasonable deal (bench player for starter)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 12:19 PM PST up reply actions
I dunno
sounds like a grass-is-always-greener kind of thing. You think Dodger fans have issues with Pierre, check out Amazin’ Avenue to see what they think of Castillo! If that’s the best the Dodgers can do, I’d rather keep Pierre, and roll the dice on DeWitt.
Why though?
We know Juan won’t be a starting outfielder.
Why roll the dice on DeWitt when you don’t have to? If DeWitt works out, then great, if not you’ve brought in another guy who can do the job.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
To be honest.
I rather Hu just get the 2nd base job until DeJesus is ready. He’ll probably suck defensively, but he’ll suck as a Dodger.
if you really want hu to have the job
then you dont care one bit for offense.. wow
Dodger press release
Los Angeles Dodgers President Dennis Mannion, who has overseen day-to-day business operations since January 2008, will assume greater responsibility that includes the club’s baseball operations.
To date, Mannion has had responsibility for business operations, including marketing, sponsorships, finance, ticket sales, human resources, communications and legal affairs. In his new role, Mannion will also oversee General Manager Ned Colletti, who manages the team’s baseball operations.
Mannion is one of the most tenured executives in professional sports. He first joined the Dodgers in 2007 following 27 seasons with the Philadelphia Phillies, Denver Nuggets, Colorado Avalanche and Baltimore Ravens.
"Dennis is a seasoned sports executive who has done a great job since arriving at the Dodgers," said Dodger Owner Frank McCourt. "He has already begun integrating baseball operations with the rest of the organization, and today’s announcement formalizes that transition."
"Connecting the baseball operation to the rest of the organization is a smart move that is good for the team," said Colletti. "I have long believed that both sides of the operation will function better as one – both understanding the challenges each has and working together to celebrate the triumphs as one group. This move acknowledges that and I embrace it wholeheartedly."
"We are all extremely proud of the team’s results on the field and the direction of the organization," said Mannion. "Our talented staff on both the baseball and business sides of the organization are committed to making the Dodgers a world championship team and a world class operation."
Only in the same way that Jon Heyman’s reports on Scott Boras clients are words out of his mouth. :)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
“Randy Wolf? NO WAY we offer him arb. Our business model indicates that he’s not worth his projected award.” —Dennis Mannion
Is that Frank McCourt’s hand in my back?
No!
I am not a puppet!
by 68elcamino427 on Dec 7, 2009 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
I don't see how this is good for the team on the field
The Dodgers have already made too many bad baseball decisions based on financials. I see this as de-emphasizing the baseball decisions even more to the primacy of business decisions.
Hmm
this will probably have huge ramifications in how they conduct business in the future but in what way I have no idea.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Keeps Frank above the fray and reinforces the idea that the entire Dodger franchise is operated separately from the McCourts’ personal interests in the divorce settlement. Mannion makes the decision if a baseball move aligns with business needs, not Frank.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
"Connecting the baseball operation to the rest of the organization"
AKA = “Desperate attempt to siphon off all Dodger profits and assets to Quixotically attempt to fill exponentially expanding black whole in F MC’s finances until inevitable endpoint reached where Dodgers suck and F MC is bankrupt.”
After going through the BS translator.
diamond83
#Dodgers announce that GM Ned Colletti now works under president Dennis Mannion, who previously was responsible for business operations.
’
Of course there’s a decent chance that Mannion’s going to pushed out when the Dodgers are sold. :)
Sounds like Mannion is the money man, not the baseball man
He stays and sinks with the SS F MC organization.
LOL
jcrasnick:
For what it’s worth (on the Edwin Jackson front), the Mets and Tigers haven’t even talked today in Indy.
jaysonstark:
Hear Seattle has Nick Johnson high on its 1B shopping list. Other teams we’ve heard on Johnson: Giants, Mets, Red Sox, Dbacks, O’s, Yanks
Yankee's
they looking for a pinch hitter because last I looked they had a 1st baseman and plethora of DH guys.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
you know the yanks..
they are in on everbody
+1
so whats the opening day rotation?
kershaw starts opening day.
bills
jackson
Kuroda
Haegar/Elbert
Don’t know why but after that comment I couldn’t get Money for Nothing out of my mind
That ain’t workin’ that’s the way you do it Get your money for nothin’ get your chicks for free
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
MikeSciosciasTI
#Dodgers in on Alfredo Amezaga, 32, missed year with microfracture surgery. What’s with these horrible infield rumros? http://bit.ly/4pv7Qs
From the way MSTI puts it, trading for Amezaga would be a bad thing!
Amezaga’s career year (2007 – age 29):
.263 / .324 / .358 / .682, 79 OPS+
He fields a lot of positions so Torre would play him a lot. What exactly is the upside? He’s not a true SS (though he came up through the minors as one), so I don’t even like him for Juan Castro’s old job.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Mitch Jones received a $7,000 award for leading the minors in HRs this past season.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
So what would people be willing to give up
for Kelly Johnson?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
Hu:)
I could play this game all day. Or for five more minutes.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Okay, me too then
Darren Dreifort and Juan Pierre?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
Should be a buy-low opportunity, so I wouldn’t want to see anything but a lower-level prospect – Pedro Baez? He’s a second-time arb-eligible, so the price shouldn’t be too high for taking his salary off the Braves hands.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
The Dodgers couldn't afford him
via arbitration, the hope has to be they non – tender him.
Adam Kennedy is in play, the same guy who the Cardinals ate 4 Million on just this past summer. He’s like the Padilla for middle infielders except without the reputation baggage.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
How does one get on LaRussa’s good list? Offer to be his designated driver?
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Dec 7, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
dgoold
#Cardinals policy to await physical before announcing deal. Told it could be worth $9m w/ all incentives http://bit.ly/80L6ES #stlcards
I will say one thing about TJ Simers
The guy will write you back if you send him an email critical of something he wrote.
I have just written him emails several times over the years
in regard to columns that he has written. It is usually a couple of sentences defending his point of view when he replies. His latest column bothered me because it seemed he was blaming a lot of USC’s problems this year only on Pete Carroll deciding to use a freshman quarterback. I felt that while that is partly true, he neglected to point out how the defense has been sucked dry the last few years by the NFL draft and that their best power back who would have helped them in the tough late season games neraly died weightlifting.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
Did you make the HB hike
okay or find another way to get to your interview?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I made it no problem.:)
It was an easy walk and the interview went well I thought. I guess I will find out in the coming weeks what will happen. Interviewing 4 and hiring two, so I have a %50 percent chance.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
Nats are looking at Ausmus.
Might be time to hand the keys to the castle to AJ Ellis. Maybe the Dodgers will put up a HUGE poster of him near the escalators.
I'd like a back up catcher who Torre
wouldn’t be afraid to play, if we went with Ellis, Martin might as well start digging his grave with the stumps of femurs.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Ellis calls a magnificent game. I remember he caught a DOMINANT Billingsley game one night at Dodger Stadium.
We keep hearing he's an excllent defensive catcher but
who really knows.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I don't mean to be flip but
Sometimes it seems like “He calls an excellent game” is code for “he doesn’t hit at all.”
There must be some catchers who truly call an excellent game, but how would you measure that? How would we know?
Bills had 11 Ks in 7.2 IP, but also walked 3 and allowed 3 runs. “Dominant” is a stretch.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN200906300.shtml
Not sure who the options are
We figured Torre would be more interested in playing Ausmus than he had been playing Ardoin/Ellis/Bennett the year before but he didn’t.
Not sure what catcher would actually get reps. The logical choice would be a guy in the system (like Ellis or May) but I don’t see that happening either. Pudge I gues (he’s got enough name recognition to warrant the extra PT) but really I think Torre is going to continue riding Martin.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
Yep - amazed that Ausmus
didn’t get more time. For one he was doing well when he started and for two, Martin sucked. Now Torre may have known that Ausmus would also suck the more he played but at least Martin would have been more rested.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I wouldn't mind it if you posted a band name
everytime you think of one. We are trying to find names for my new band.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
Haha, you guys are seriously making me laugh.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe that’s the first album title from The Librarians.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Tracks:
Shelving for Eternity
Weird Phone Calls
Yes, An Advanced Degree
(What Is) That Smell?
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
The hidden track would be
“Long Overdue.”
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
brilliant
Now write the music to the titles
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Yeah I was going to mention
if lightning strikes, and we become huge, TBLA would be hooked up with something nice like season tickets and some backstage passes.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
I'm actually going to
float a few of those names by the other guys and see what they think. They also gave me some other ideas for names.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
For some reason I mistakenly replied at the wrong spot.
My reply to this is down below.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
Actually
come to think of it “The Stumps of Femurs” would be a good album name. Band name is open for discussion :)
I tried to name a band Lather, Rinse and Repeat, but they wouldn’t go for it.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Band
I always wanted to see a band named after one of those phrases, life Attorney General or Court Martial, that the adjective comes after the noun. The Attorneys General. The Courts Martial.
It is kinda odd that all the teams that want to trade for Granderson are teams with good CFs already.
Per Joel Sherman
nyp_joelsherman
#Mets likely to meet Molina’s agt tonight and Lackey’s tomorrow
#Mariners officials downplay involvement on Edwin Jackson.
jcrasnick
Randy Winn is telling clubs he wants to play fulltime. That might be a challenge, but he should attract lots of interest as a 4th OF in Jan.
I'm sure
he could get a starting gig if he agreed to play for 1 Million.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
From MLBTR
With USA Today’s Bob Nightengale suggesting the Tigers hope to trade Curtis Granderson this week, the center fielder requires his own post.
ESPN’s Peter Gammons says the Tigers wanted shortstop prospect Starlin Castro and two others from the Cubs. That price is too high for the Cubs. Gammons’ colleague Buster Olney says the Tigers want Phil Hughes and Austin Jackson from the Yankees for Granderson.
Okay, so you won’t be able to rip off the Tigers.
But from the Dodgers they want Matt Kemp and Chad Billingsley.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Dee Gordon for sure would = Austin Jackson
but WIthrow does not equal Hughes since the want someone in the rotation now.
Elbert/Gordon/Troncoso for Granderson seems rich but it is always fun to listen to Canucks arteries harden.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
we dont even need granderson..
why granderson to dodgers trade proposals? for fun?
The Tigers started Rick Porcello as a 20 year old. They’re not scared of starting young pitching like other teams are.
he was ready>?
had he ever played about A ball?
and withrow has spent a year in high a and part in aa
one can argue that withrow is even more ready then porcello..
He had a walk rate of 2.4
granted his K rate was dismal but from what I undertand he was under orders not to use his full arsenal.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
he didnt have those orders..
he was just a groundball pitcher.. its not like he struck anyone out at the major league level either..
nope
his offspeed pitches just arent good yet..
Okay
You be right, I misrembered about the program.
The Good: Porcello has everything it takes to be a top-flight starter in the big leagues. His frame and arm action are nearly ideal, and he throws two plus fastballs—a 90-93 mph two-seamer with heavy sink, and a four-seam that can get into the mid-90s. He throws a slider and a curveball that both project as plus, while his changeup is highly advanced for his age and he has the confidence to use it as another out pitch. His command is outstanding, and he has the mound presence of a veteran.
The Bad: Porcello wasn’t as dominant as many expected him to be as far as missing bats, but he was under a specific program that was designed to develop all of his offerings and get him to pitch efficiently, with one scout noting, “he was just toying with hitters really, as you could tell he could overpower them whenever he needed to.” He’ll still flatten a slider from time to time.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Above quote
from Kevin Goldstein and Baseball Prospectus
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Another one of many
flawed but skilled pitchers FA pitchers when on the mound.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
peter gammons just said in Baseball tonight
that the dodgers are trading sherill for sure and are looking to move him for a young reliever..
Just what we need
another young reliever. Ned does love his relief pitchers, but he’s never traded for a “young” relief pitcher. I call four ball on Gammons.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I like Mark Lowe
but if we moving Sherrill either move him for something we need of for some prospects, not to bolster our strongest area.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
john kruk just said dan uglla will go to
Seattle…
L:OL
Why?
The new management looks like they like OB and Jose Lopez struggles in that area.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
he said
jose lopez will move to first.. uggla at second
More likely
if the get Uggla, the sign Nick Johnson and send Jose Lopes to the Dodgers for Sherrill
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I believe I
mistyped every word in that sentence other then Uggla
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
and then john kruk just said
if uggla goes to San fransisco… that they would be Heavy favorites in the division
Fat people in sports really suck this week
See – Weis and Kruk
Skinny guys like
Tiger are not exactly having a boffo time of it.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I work
Just down the street from the Marriott here in beautiful downtown Indy. I was thinking about snooping. If I run into the mustachioed one, what should I ask him? ;-)
by Son of Steve Sax on Dec 7, 2009 2:38 PM PST reply actions
Did you not offer arbitration to Randy Wolf because the club didn’t want to taken on the financial burden of two extra draft picks?
Not sure
I could get through that question without sobbing.
by Son of Steve Sax on Dec 7, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
How about which
ball was Frank squeezing when he told him to tell the press it was a baseball decision or did he have both of them.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
If I can be metaphoric
I’d say that Frank McCourt ties Ned’s hands behind his back and trims his mustache for him, when all Colletti really wants is a full beard.
by Son of Steve Sax on Dec 7, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
Just how many prospects would you have to give Toronto in order to obtain Roy Halladay with the Blue Jays paying his entire salary?
Eric
the dark side does not befit you, recant and use the force for good. We must be balanced and you are overweighting the short sidedness of the Dodgers. We can’t all be over here.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Why trade for George Sherrill if you’re going to shop him in the off season? Did you just not like Joshua Bell and Steven Johnson?
A follow up to that
At what point did you realize that Sherrill just might be a tad expensive in 2010-2011 for a non-closer? Before or after the trade?
You are assuming a level of committment and competence
not present in the organization right now
Whatever the question is
be sure to preface it with “When your contract expires after 2014…” just to see how he responds or gives a definitive date :)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Saxy,
you opened up one hell of a can of worms and comedy gold.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Indeed
Figured it was a throw-away, talked to my boss for 5 minutes, and all hell’s broken loose.
by Son of Steve Sax on Dec 7, 2009 2:54 PM PST up reply actions
For those Wang rumors
from Pete Abraham:
Once Wang is non-tendered, wouldn’t he be a good risk/reward sign for the Red Sox? His agent says he’ll be ready May 1
That's beautiful
Completely made up. No promise or implication of having talked to the Red Sox. Just spitballing.
If he was a Clipper that would mean
he’d be out until 2011
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
O-dog is on the PHONE
on baseball tonight…
they are talking about his benching…
i didnt listen.. i dont like the 0 dog
but john kruk said he would be a great signing because he helps out your pitchers also
Kruk said
the way he acted after being benched was the most important thing we learned about him as a player this season. Because being a cheerleader is a commodity that most teams are looking for when seeking a starting second baseman.
That is almost a quote. It almost made my ears bleed.
I loved watching Kruk
play baseball but man he sucks at his job
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
He said he would listen to any and all offers. Didn’t have a set price. They asked if 3year/8 mill or 2 year/10 mill would do it. He wouldn’t answer.
One year
five million, so he ends up suing the the Dodgers saying his benching messed up his value and gave teams the perception he was injured goods. As he signs the court documents he breaks his wrist trying to make an R.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
The Angels must be happy that the Mariners traded that boatload of talent for Bedard and that the Mariners will end with nothing for him because otherwise they’d be one imprressive looking team right now for the AL West.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Great return for Bedard
At some point this year, or for sure 2011, the Orioles will field a team with Adam Jones in CF, Josh Bell at 3B, and Chris Tillman starting on the mound
It is the Oriole
equivalent to the AJ Deal.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
and Kam mickolio
closing out the game…
and steve johnson slated to start the next game…
wow.. what a franchise changing deal..
jaysonst:
Phillies have quietly let teams know they’d listen on Joe Blanton. Trying to free up $ for bullpen upgrades.
What is Blanton making next year?
Because the is one of the better semi-plausible things I’ve heard.
It's still plasubile
we add a starter for roughly $3.5 – $4m, and fill in the bullpen spot with either a kid or a ~$1m veteran
I am still operating under the assumption
that the payroll is going to be significantly less than $100 mill. This way, I can’t possibly be horribly shocked by anything that happens. Its all roses for me from here on out.
I went to look up Blanton's stats on THT....
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
I feel for you today. This must be like “the weatherman is dead” SNL skit when the morning TV show broke their teleprompter! :)
Seeing as how I got into arguments
with other people defending the x-FIP metric over WAR or whatever, I just don’t want there to be a post from THT saying that they were wrong all along about x-FIP and that there is no correlation between HR/FB ratio, etc. That would be emarassing for me.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
Blanton xERA
was 4.23 in 2009. Just a tad better then 2007 and way better then normal for him. Even had a decent K rate this past year for the first time since his rookie season. Actually quite a big jump.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Salaries match up, but Casey Blake could be argued to be the 2nd most valuable position player behind Matt Kemp, and there’s no place to play Werth.
They signed Polanco
have no need for Blake or Pierre. They don’ t want to weaken the team simply move a starter for a relief pitcher.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Because Jayson Werth was my favorite Fox-era Dodger.
I can’t cheer for him in Philly.
Quit using your logic to shatter my dreams!
I never stopped rooting for him
one of biggest irritations of the 21st century Dodgers is the pitch that broke his wrist during his first spring training at bat in 2005. That one pitch may have been a franchise changer.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Broke my heart.
Worked out okay for him. Been to two WS and got a ring. I’m happy for him.
But that first inning 3 run bomb he hit against the Dodgers this year was really painful.
If he stays healthy we have an outfield of Ethier, Kemp, Werth?
and no Manny? I think I’d like it…too bad I hate Werth now.
can werth play 3rd?
or move ethier to left werth to right kemp in center and manny at 3rd
Platoon Ethier and Werth in RF
Let Werth kill lefties and Ethier kill righties.
That would be the most potent
of platoons. Maybe even worth the 20 Million you’d have to pay for it.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I still think Ethier can be turned into a first basemen
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
But he's an
excellent right fielder.
Anyway NWIH that Werth is traded.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
stevehenson333
Frank McCourt is addressing his inattentiveness, handing Dodger baseball ops to Dennis Mannion, who previously ran only the business side.
Posting only because of the conclusion.
Frank is to busy making sure
Jamie is not swimming during off hours in his house.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Heisman Finalists for NYC
McCoy, Ingram, Suh, Gerhart, and the cry baby.
My only beef is cry baby over Spiller, but no way was he getting left in Gainesville for the weekend.
Cry Baby?
What did Tebow do to become a cry baby?
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
yah sucks to show
emotion after playing your last game and realizing that the best part of his life is now over.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I'm more referring to his display after the Ole Miss game last year
this just sealed it. Sorry, I can’t take any more of Tebow.
seriously..
his future in the nfl doesnt look too bright..
his best days are all behind him now..
Money for nothing and chicks for free will console him as he moves beyond college ball. Someone sweet looking will dry his tears.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
huh??
i doubt he goes in the first round… and if some stupid team like the bills take him.. they will waste their first round pick..
mathewmafa
is putting his own feelings toward his worth into the draft. He may be right about what he ends up doing but he’s going to make some money next year.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
tim tebow in the first round??
you think tim tebow will go in the first round?
I realize now that both of the mock drafts I saw had him going to Jacksonville… home town hero kind of pick but then you’d have to wonder why they’d bother if no one else is going to pick him.
Their owner even said something along the lines of Tebow being a realistic option to help sell tickets. They don’t have a 2nd round pick, so pretty much every mock draft I’ve seen has the Jags taking him in the 1st. As a Jag fan, I am not too thrilled about that scenario. I’ll gladly take Locker, though.
I know nothing about college football
anymore but I do know the man will make more money in his lifetime then probably all of us combined.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
suprisingly
the nfl mock drafts have him as the 20th pick..
i wouldnt draft him.. but im not a gm or scouting directer..
If he slips
2nd round is probably between $1-3m guaranteed.
3rd round and lower is less than $1m guaranteed
More like 2nd rounder that has a good chance of busting out. Of course he can still make a couple of million, but ‘only’ that.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think teams will give him a chance to fuck around like they do with other QBs because his mechanics are pretty bad and if a team don’t think they can fix him they will cut him.
The dude will be a tight end
he has the perfect tight end body.
He will either come to terms with that, or be like Eric Crouch refuse to play anything but QB and end up being the local weatherman.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
DId you expect USC
to have four conference losses in your wildest dreams?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Nope
Very, very disappointed in the season. But I have to keep reminding myself that if 8-4 is a bad year you don’t have much to worry about.
Until
you remember you went 5-4 in conference.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Or it could mean the
ride is over. It was one hell of a ride but it might be time for a new cycle to begin.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Coaching was a debacle this year.
And Barkley was terrible. Those 2 things get fixed, SC bounces right back. They don’t, we have problems.
and the defense sucked ass. Taylor Mays has got to be kicking himself.
Barkley played like a freshman, no doubt. But if Corp was the starter they might have gone 4-8
Defense is an aberration IMO
The LB’s were bad, and the Pac 10 really knows SC’s zone D well at this point.
Defense will bounce back next year, mark it down. The line will be sick, and the secondary will be better.
it’s the O I’m worried about.
Agreed.
Carroll’s ridiculous scheme this year forcing Taylor to play 30 yards off the LOS really hurt his stock.
With the success of the
previous ’SC players in the draft, especially on defense, Mays will probably still do alright for himself.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
how about if Sanchez was the starter?
I think when he bolted, Carroll was mad because he knew the season wasn’t going to go well. Thus, start your freshman to get him ready for when you return to excellence.
I agree.
USC will reload for another legit shot at the National Championship. People shouldn’t forget that Mckoy, Tebow and the teams they play for are due for a slump with them moving on.
by Ian Capilouto on Dec 7, 2009 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
If the clown UCLA
quarterback Bennet can become a NFL wide receiver then ….
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
He's a legend
and he’s white. Isn’t he set for life no matter how his future football career turns out. I know guys who played are Cornell who have used their contacts to never really have a hard day in their life.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Good point
That guy can basically whatever job he wanted in the state of Florida.
Here Tim, come manage this hedge fund. By the way, we have a friendly flag football game every month against the rival firm….
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
I could see Jacksonville taking him with their first pick
Home town kid, desperate to sell tickets, and they don’t have an all pro at QB.
Crying once can be showing emotion. Doing it twice shows that its all about you and not expecting to ever lose which is just dumb and unrealistic.
Really
I always cried after I lost, but then I turned 13.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
It also seems a lot more contrived
Like you said – once is emotion (unless you are Dick Vermeil). Twice seems manufactured.
Don't they base the invitations on early returns of the vote
Like you are basically assured that these guys are top vote getters. If Spiller ain’t getting the votes (which doesn’t surprise me) no point in inviting him….
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
yeah thats what it is..
like last year when they didnt invite graham hareell.. he got no votes compared to the other 3 so whats the point of inviting him
no spilller??
wow..
there are really no STAND out winner this year..
So i got to give it to SUH..
The man is a BEAST… 12 tackles against Texas 7 TFL and 3.5 sacks WOW
to invite 5 people to the presentation means that
the voting was really really close..
cause last year only 3 were invited and harrell was a distant 4th..
I think Gerhart should win
but I’ve already heard the ballots for a bunch of southern voters (Brando, Finebaum), etc and they are completely shutting him out. He’ll need a huge haul from the West and Midwest voters. Hopefully McCoy and Ingram split a lot of the South, with enough morons throwing Tebow on their ballots to knock them down a little more.
Ya, but they said the same thing
the years that Palmer, Leinart and Bush all won the Heisman…
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 3:20 PM PST up reply actions
True -
but I can’t imagine those guys were being completely left off of ballots like Gerhart is seemingly going to be.
Then you have idiots like the KC Star writer who put Tebow 1 for a lifetime achievement award, and a Missouri WR #3 – “for all that he’s been through these past 4 years.”
mccoy is going to win the heisman this year.. for his lifetime achievement award..
lou holtz even said he would pick mccoy cause of what he has done in his college career… doesnt lou holtz know that heismans are yearly awards and not career awards?
I'm not as anti-Tebow
as much as I am anti coverage of Tebow. He’s like Jeter in that regard.
I don’t think he will ever be a good NFL QB, but he will likely get drafted reasonably high and some team with a creative offensive coordinator will find a spot for him.
That said, this was my favorite Tweet I saw over the weekend:
A Tebow drinking game that wouldn’t even get you buzzed: take a drink every time Tebow throws a spiral #RollTide
How about Billingsley for Davis and Upton:)
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
davis is a billingsley clone
92 mph fastball 78 mph curve rarely thrown changeups and bills throws a cutter while davis throws a slider
Ah
one of those right handed possible platoon beasts has gone to the Pacific Rim.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Rule 5 draft
Hey Ned! Draft Jacob McGee on Thursday if you can. Coming off TJ surgery, he has a high 90s FB from the left side and is projected as a future closer.
Man I used to really follow McGee
Davis and McGee were like our Miller / Jackson. Did the Rays really leave him unprotected? Must not have bounced back well from surgery.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I was a bit shocked when I read your post
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
yeah..
its the rodriguez guy they got from the rockies last year that they left unprotected..
Off topic
For a month or so now, everyone in the 760 area code (including yours truly) has to dial 10 digits for every damn phone call, including local calls. It sucks.
On my anger scale, from Kate Beckinsale returns my calls (0) to the Dodgers not offering Randy Wolf arbitration (10), this 760 debacle gets a 7.
Don't we all have to do that
I know I do in the 818?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
This was the first I had heard of such a thing. I suspect it will eventually spread everywhere as we run out of numbers
We had to do it in the 310 area for a couple of years now.
What we should have done is make special area codes for cell phones but nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo… that would make too much sense.
There are only so many area codes though.
Full disclosure: I have no idea how many are/were available.
You can’t start an area code with a zero or a one, so I’d imagine the maximum number of area codes there could possibly be is 796, numbers 211 through 999, minus 311, 411, 611 and 911.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Subtract 3
For 800, 888 and 900. Those numbers are already spoken for.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
Does that placate your anger
knowing we are all in the same boat and it is not relegated to you desert folk?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
That is why Kate hasn't returned your calls
she’s all about her and needs you to be all about her also.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Kate
told me to tell you hi and that as soon as she finishes sleeping with a another werewolf she will get back to you.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen