Mannion Expands Role With Dodgers
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 4:45 PM PST
in News
356 comments
Day one of the winter meetings hasn't brought much news regarding the Dodgers, other than speculation and rumors, which can be fun. However, the Dodgers did announce today that team president Dennis Mannion will now oversee baseball operations in addition to his current duties running the daily business side of the franchise.
From the Dodgers:
To date, Mannion has had responsibility for business operations, including marketing, sponsorships, finance, ticket sales, human resources, communications and legal affairs. In his new role, Mannion will also oversee General Manager Ned Colletti, who manages the team’s baseball operations.
Mannion is one of the most tenured executives in professional sports. He first joined the Dodgers in 2007 following 27 seasons with the Philadelphia Phillies, Denver Nuggets, Colorado Avalanche and Baltimore Ravens.
"Dennis is a seasoned sports executive who has done a great job since arriving at the Dodgers," said Dodger Owner Frank McCourt. "He has already begun integrating baseball operations with the rest of the organization, and today’s announcement formalizes that transition."
I did have the good fortune to meet Mannion during my tour of Camelback Ranch this spring, and even though it was a passing meeting outside the club's offices, Mannion did go out of his way to elicit the opinion of us Dodger bloggers and seemed genuinely interested in our thoughts. I have no idea how that will affect his ability to run a franchise, but he did seem to have a presence, if that counts for anything.
Colletti praised the move, saying, "I have long believed that both sides of the operation will function better as one - both understanding the challenges each has and working together to celebrate the triumphs as one group. This move acknowledges that and I embrace it wholeheartedly." But then again, what else would Colletti say in a team press release?
Who knows what effect this move will have on the Dodgers? It will probably be minimal on the baseball side, but time will tell.
**********
OK, so there is a little bit of news. The Dodgers announced a few things via Twitter:
- The Dodgers are "not shopping" George Sherrill
- Scott Elbert and Josh Lindblom are being groomed for starting pitching roles, whereas James McDonald is "more flexible."
- Brad Ausmus is leaning toward returning for 2010, and Colletti has been in contact with him all winter
0 recs |
356 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
For the record
I think the Penny contract was too much guaranteed money, and I agree with Dave that it shows Wolf’s market will be pretty solid, solid enough to know that he would have declined arbitration.
From the Dodgers
In response to whether or not the #Dodgers are “shopping George Sherrill,” Ned says we’re not “shopping anyone.”
But else what are they going to say?
We have no money
Our major acquisitions will be Nick Green and Alfredo Amazega
by SeanMillerSavior on Dec 7, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
just desserts
I wanna see Martin get paid in arb. And Billz, Brox, Ethier,Kemp.
All these kids risked a Werth injury and non tender..not getting long term security.
If Werth never healed, he’d never have gotten $$$. Thats our kids risks, and we never locked one of ’em in.
Not a one.
The Dodgers tried to lock up Martin
He’s looking like quite the idiot not taking the Dodgers up on that last off-season.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
On not offering Wolf arbitration
The point is that they didn’t want to spend the money on the draft picks either, right? It wasn’t a worry that Wolf would be a Dodger — it was only about the money.
Also
Ned also said Ausmus is seriously considering playing next year and they have spoken regularly this winter
Does it worry anyone else
that Ausmus is the ONLY player that Ned has confirmed ANY interest in?
Its almost like F MC went, “OK, as a personal favor, you can have one grizzled vet Ned”.
If the mighty Dodgers are cash poor...
no team is better prepared for austerity.
Hu, DeWitt, DeJesus for 2b and backup INF, XPaul backup OF, Ellis C, McD and Elbert ready to compete with NRI and/or the Juan Pierre loot for 4th or 5th spots.
Hell this might even be the best route!
by megaballs on Dec 7, 2009 4:56 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Scott Elbert and Josh Lindblom are being groomed for starting pitching roles, whereas James McDonald is “more flexible.”
I wonder why Ned would go out of his way to mention this?
Starters are worth more in trade than relievers. Or Elbert and Lindblom have a leg up on McDonald for starting spots.
Colletti says nothing too new on #Torre front but that they’re discussing him managing #Dodgers in 2011, then move into a baseball ops role
Also from the Dodger twitter. The future eighth Special Assistant to the GM. Or the fourth Special Advisor to the Chairman?
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
# dylanohernandez
If the Dodgers trade Juan Pierre, they would want pitching in return, Colletti said. less than 5 seconds ago from web
* Reply
* Retweet
# Dylan Hernandez dylanohernandez
Dodgers: Colletti shot down a report saying that they are shopping George Sherrill. half a minute ago from web
Should Colletti be upset or relieved
that there is now a layer of management between him and ownership?
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Stating the obvious, McCourt's bleeding this team for personal benefit
While there’s “economic uncertainty”, can we acknowledge there’s been NO dropoff in attendance? Concessions down a smidge?
We have 4mil tix sold with $15 parking, two NLCS appearances, broadcasts featuring Vin Scully and a roughly $90mil payroll…we know the 3s around here. What kinda profit margins and where are the earnings??
This team might be one player away and we go to the winter meetings looking to SHED salary?
Now is time for the FLUSH Dodgers to exploit other teams financial problems
The Dodgers have to account
for arb raises for a half dozen players.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 7:12 PM PST up reply actions
because of the reality we're facing...
I’d be happy if the Dodgers did nothing. Absolutely nothing. Having a 2nd baseman, 4th starter, and 5th starter making close to the league minimum brings down the payroll, increasing the chances that our potential franchise players- most notably Kemp and Ethier, obviously, but maybe a few of the others- will survive the almost inevitable firesale that is to come sooner or later- hopefully sooner. I hate to even be thinking like that, but we all see how things are right now.
In other words, I’d sacrifice the remote chance of improving the team slightly for 2010 (it’s still pretty good as it stands now), if it means saving money and keeping the “core” of it together beyond that.
Am I the only one
Who sees a giant gap in starting pitching now that Wolf has left for greener pasteurs?
Or is Haegar/Stults just that good?
Wolf will hurt, but...
I am expecting Billingsley to not have a second half collapse, Kershaw to go more innings with hopefully more command, Kuroda do not be on the DL for anywhere near as long, and hopefully some quality from the young guys like McDonald, Elbert, Haeger, and maybe Lindblom. Not having Wolf’s production is obviously going to be a problem, but if even some of things I’ve listed come true, that loss of production should be offset.
But when injuries come, there is nothing to fall back on.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Right, the if everything goes 100% exactly right
and we find out some of our kids are way better than we thought, we’ll have a shot at winning games in the playoffs school of thought.
I don't think it has to go 100% right
Just some things need to go right. Any reasonable contribution by Kuroda and a non-meltdown second half by Billingsley might be enough to significantly soften the blow of losing Wolf. Since last year’s rotation was rounded out by McDonald/Weaver/Milton/Stults/Haeger, I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect similar performance from some combination of McDonald/Haeger/Elbert/Stults/some other guy.
That was for the 5th starter spot, which is sometimes skipped. And Ned still felt the need to pick up Padilla and trade (too much) for Garland.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I'd love to see a quality middle rotation guy added
I just don’t think its exceptionally damaging not to. I’m more concerned with a lack of a second baseman, Blake not producing like he did last year, and Manny continuing his post suspension performance. I am more secure in the pitching situation than I am with the offense. So I guess I’m just saying that if I had a limited amount of money to improve the team, I would look towards the offense first.
I see what you are saying, but I just wanted to point out…
Manny, post-suspension: .269/.389/.492
That .881 OPS was higher than both Ethier and Kemp’s full season OPS. In fact, only nine outfielders in MLB (minimum 100 games in OF) had an OPS that high.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
I hadn't realized he had been that good
Clearly another case where I let my memory speak before looking objectively.
I guess that's where we see things differently
I see a giant hole between the 2.5 starters we have and the 5th starter candiates we have.
Fair enough
I just hope you’re wrong. ; – )
obviously Wolf not coming back will hurt
I’m just saying that trying to replace him wouldn’t be a good idea, given the CURRENT situation. I’d rather take my chances with Elbert/MacDonald/Haeger/Milton/Weaver, then pay $8 mil for a could-be quality starter (not like we have that option right now anyway), which you KNOW will be coming out of another area we can ill afford to lose down the road. I shudder to think what that “other area” even would be!
Is it a lot?
- Manny suspension
- Kuroda injuries
- Broxton’s toe
- Billingsley’s hammy
- Wade worn out
- Kuo on the DL early
- Martin’s weak bat
The Dodgers didn’t lose a whole lot of games to injuries or anything else other than the suspension; I imagine their games lost compares pretty favorably to rest of the majors.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
A surprising number
of people only watched baseball last May.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
JP is a true pro, signing him was not a bad move for the Dodgers. Torre’s mystifying refusal to find a regular spot for the guy, while a marginal producer w/ no heart like Billingsley is constantly referred to as a staff “Ace” is disappointing and speaks to a still backward culture inside the Dodgers. Odd that a proven starter that is all that baseball should be about, should be thrown aside for a LF that is everything wrong w/ baseball. All he does is lead the team to victory when he’s in the lineup- just look at the stats other than HRs. Again, mind boggling that Torre won’t start the guy at least 1/2 time- in a couple of different positions -to keep him on the field. This sends the wrong message to the team and fans when you’re not doing everything to win. No station to station team w/ a slugger(now filled w/ self-doubt) can go very far. Pierre makes the team GO.The Dodgers are a study in wasted talent, wasted money, and unrealistic expectation and reliance on the Schmidts, Dreiforts, Browns and Billingsleys of the world. There are top flight players that refuse to sign w/ the Dodgers because of the shabby treatment they’ve given to(mostly Black) players( remember Dusty, Pedro[and Ramon]?) Dodgers/Torre making a huge mistake if he’s let go. Good luck and full support from this quarter to Juan Pierre no matter what happens. Wanna see him in LA blue & white, though. Is there any doubt that the Dodgers will have won the World Series if Mike Scoscia was head coach, Dusty Baker bench coach, and Juan Pierre was leading off, Furcal batting second, a fat Barry Bonds batting #5,6, and Pedro coming out of the bullpen? Think about it.
Posted by: JEFF | December 07, 2009 at 04:19 PM
There are a lot ot things wrong with that rant, but just to pick a couple
No station to station team w/ a slugger(now filled w/ self-doubt) can go very far.
Sounds like the world champion Red Sox teams to me.
Then he blasts Manny:
a LF that is everything wrong w/ baseball.Only to suggest L.A. would have won the WS with:
a fat Barry Bonds batting #5,6Good grief.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Jeff you are a dumbfuck
there is so much wrong with this babble i will let me title say it all.
by MammothDodger on Dec 7, 2009 7:03 PM PST up reply actions
awful
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
by BoulderDodger on Dec 9, 2009 8:04 AM PST up reply actions
Ian has that covered
Soon to be released on TBLA records :)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 5:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
The Mets are considering a bid of about $6 million for one guaranteed year plus a second-year option for free-agent catcher Bengie Molina, whom they have made their top catching target.
It’s possible the Mets go to two years for Molina. But their hope is that the demand will be limited by a lack of big-market teams looking for a frontline catcher. The Royals, Blue Jays, Rockies and Giants all have catching needs but may not be seen as threats to outbid the Mets.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/12/07/winter.buzz/index.html?eref=writers
This made me laugh.
Tigers seeking offers on young hurler Jackson
The Tigers are seeking offers on fine young pitcher Edwin Jackson, and most executives believe he will be traded. They are asking for young pitching in return. From Seattle, they sought Brandon Morrow and Shawn Kelley.
Edwin Jackson: September 9, 1983 in Neu-ulm, W.Germany, age 25.
Brandon Morrow: Born: July 26, 1984 in Santa Rosa, CA, age 24.
Shawn Kelley: Born: April 26, 1984 in Louisville, KY, age 25
$6MM?!?!
Holy crap. Nevermind what I said about Molina playing at 1/2 the price of Martin.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 7:15 PM PST up reply actions
I think any free agent signings the Dodgers make will be players who misjudged the market. Even in a bad economy, teams will overpay for players at the Winter Meetings, like Renteria last year and now Penny. It worked last year with Wolf and Hudson, but obviously there is even less to work with this year than last.
Moneyball 2: The Art of Dealing with Delusional Greedy Bastards
The story of General Manager Ned Colletti and his struggle to sign quality players with no operating capital.
I’m with you on the players and GMs, but I’m thinking agents are usually at least greedy or delusional. If ESPN calls you a “superagent” you’re probably both. Which isn’t to say that makes you a bad business guy.
He doesn’t screw up. That’s the good business part. He was delusional in thinking that the baseball economy is as sound as it once was. I would also say that there is some level of delusion when it comes to the amount of money he thinks his players are worth.
Of course, if I was a supertalented guy, there is no one else I would call.
Ed Price has news that Wolf may have found a new home
ed_price Hearing #Brewers closing in on three-year deal with LHP Randy Wolf. Trying to confirm
Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright.
by Mr. LA Sports Fan on Dec 7, 2009 7:16 PM PST reply actions
Link here
Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright.
by Mr. LA Sports Fan on Dec 7, 2009 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
A cryptic message from Jon Heyman
SI_JonHeyman
#mets were told in meetings that randy wolf has a 3-year offer elsewhere and pineiro wants 4 years. ouch.
Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright.
by Mr. LA Sports Fan on Dec 7, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions
And now it's confirmed
SI_JonHeyman
right on the money. the crew offers 3 yrs. RT @ed_price: Hearing #Brewers closing in on 3-year deal with LHP Randy Wolf.
Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright.
by Mr. LA Sports Fan on Dec 7, 2009 7:54 PM PST up reply actions
Good for Randy
this was his last shot at a multi-year deal, he had a great year and the chips fell perfectly for him.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2009 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
Plus in a year or two the Brewers will be desperate to sell
and our new owner can pick him up for a playoff run.
diamond83
RT @SI_JonHeyman gm ned colletti’s new #dodgers contract is for 5 years, through 2014, sources say.
From BTF
143. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F) Posted: December 07, 2009 at 11:36 PM (#3406287)
The rumored 3way:
D-Backs get:
P Edwin Jackson
P Ian Kennedy
Tigers get:
P Max Scherzer
OF Austin Jackson
P Phil Coke
P Michael Dunn
Yanks get:
OF Curtis Granderson
Supposedly the D-Backs pushed hard for this, and one of the others vetoed.
I read that one on MLBTR, but didn’t want to give it too much credence given that it was posted by Rosenthal.
It must be the Yankees wanting somebody else with Granderson. Just getting Scherzer and Jackson should be good enough for the Tigers, and Coke and Dunn are just bodies along for the ride.
nyp_joelsherman
#Yanks left Az/Det talks feeling dead (asking too high prospect cost) and unsure if revisited but clearly want granderson so stay tuned
Yanks want Granderson but don’t want to give up prospects that would be blocked anyway by Granderson(Austin Jackson). Okay.
SI_JonHeyman
soriano accepts arbitration. stays a brave. team will be slightly surprised. after making $6,3 mil in ’09, might top $7 mil.
It will be interesting to see
how the Phillies counter. They were far and away the best team in the NL East. Braves just made that a lot more interesting.
yeah
mccann chipper escobar heyward prado mclouth shoulld be able to score some runs tho.. the one piece missing is a rightfielder and 1st basemen which are 2 of the most offensive positions so imagine if they get great offense in those positions.. they would be a DEADLY team
T.J. Simers interview with Mannion is up.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers8-2009dec08,0,5757805.column
“YOU LOOKING for me?” says Colletti, calling back and proving he needs no permission to sound like the former PR guy for the Cubs.
“I’ve known Dennis a long time and we get along great. He’s going to let us run baseball and I will keep him informed. I find no problem with this.”
In his new position as Grand Poobah, Mannion tries to explain how it will all work. Boiling down all the corporate gibberish — it sounds as if he wants more meetings.
“At the end of the day, we just don’t want anyone siloed out,” he says.
I don’t know about you, but if it means more meetings with someone who says, “at the end of the day” so much, I’d rather be siloed out.
So Mannion already knows that Simers doesn’t actually want to talk to you. =P
Haha
ed_price
#Astros catch break that #Braves didn’t, Jose Valverde declines arbitration offer 3 minutes ago from UberTwitter
jcrasnick
With a few minutes left, Astros still haven’t heard on Jose Valverde’s decision. 2 minutes ago from web
Good move for the Nats. Jesus Flores is pretty good and can split time, while Pudge can help Strasburg and some of the youngsters out in their formative years.
the contract makes Rodriguez very tradeable as well?
by 68elcamino427 on Dec 7, 2009 9:27 PM PST up reply actions
why is it a awful contract?
just wonderin
Two years for a backup catcher at this point in his career! Did Jim Bowden get his job back:)
It's always darkest just before dawn
An attempt by the Nats to get some walk-up
From the Washington Times:
Pudge could reach 500 homers, 3000 hits if he gets a good chunk of playing time w/#Nats. The draw would be a nice bonus at the gate
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
Although he’s at 2711 hits. No way he’s getting 289 hits in two seasons, at ages 38-39 (216 in last 2 seasons)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
He’s currently at 305 homers, 2711 hits.
I guess its a non zero chance of getting 300 hits split over two seasons. Getting 200 homers? FAT CHANCE IN HELL.
That is so awesome
For some reason I read that tweet as “300” instead of “500” so I didn’t think twice.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:18 PM PST up reply actions
And, ha! He has 305 homers already.
Lame attempt to justify by Washington Times
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2009 10:16 PM PST up reply actions
Apparently no one at the Washington Times can either do math or has ever watched a baseball game.
It's always darkest just before dawn
This does not bode well
ed_price
When #Cardinals gave Penny $7.5M, it set market and only made sense for Pavano to accept arb from #Twins
Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright.
by Mr. LA Sports Fan on Dec 7, 2009 9:40 PM PST reply actions
Or it bodes very well. It all depends on where we are in the offseason.
Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright.
by Mr. LA Sports Fan on Dec 7, 2009 9:42 PM PST up reply actions
The D-Backs have 10 million dollars to spend Do the Dodgers have zero payroll space?
It's always darkest just before dawn
Remember Eric Stephen said it was a great idea by the Dodgers to split Andruw’s contract until 2014? How great is it now Eric!? :)
I don't remember calling it great
But it freed up $12m for 2009 that McCourt didn’t have.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 5:22 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I hate harping on the same theme, but its really sad to hear the Phillies can go up to $140 Million this year, and despite leading the NL in attendance we can’t top $100 MM.
Reason #1 why McCourt should sell
Revenue minus Expenses = Operating Income
Operating Income – Debt Service = Cash Flow
I’m fairly certain the Dodgers have a higher operating income than the Phillies, but their debt service is too high and negates any advantage they have (in fact, turning it into a disadvantage).
Exactly and hence the reason for the deferred salaries. Frank probably thought he could continually ride the refinance train and keep cashing out as the value of the team went up. Plus he is probably banking on enjoying higher television revenues in 2013 either through negotiating a better contract or creating a Dodgers channel akin to the Yankees or Mets.
This should be in a FAQ
so whenever someone asks about why our payroll is so low even though we sell 4 Million seats we can just point them to this.
Revenue minus Expenses = Operating Income
Operating Income – Debt Service = Cash Flow
I still don’t think enough Dodger fans have grasped how much Frank has borrowed against the Dodgers to do his capital improvements. He borrowed to much to buy the team now he’s borrowed to much to keep the team. I’m a little surprised MLB let him continue to increase his debt load. This divorce may be painful in the short term but might be the best long term thing to happen to them when they have to sell or have to bring in investors with real capital.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
The debt service rule
might be skirted by the fact the Dodgers might be market valued at 800,000? Leaving Frank in the same position as many home holders in Los Angeles where they were cash poor but asset heavy, but they couldn’t borrow anymore against the asset because the cash flow would not cover the increase in debt load. At least the prudent people at some point stopped borrowing against their houses and still own them, the others lost them. DId Frank stop at a point where cash flow covers his debt service while still able to maintain a$100 Million Dollar payroll? Is that the Million dollar question?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Just to Clarify
The VAST majority of his debt is from buying the team.
The money for capital improvements is a drop in the bucket. It was a classic flipper’s move to gussy up the stadium with granite countertops.
without that flexibility
we would not signed Manny, Wolf, or Hudson so based on Frank’s limited financial ability to increase payroll in 2009 it was a great idea. We will pay the piper in the future but given the options it was the best thing they could do at the time.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Dec 8, 2009 7:20 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Right
and even though deferring money sucks, if you look at it from the point they were at, the Dodgers already owed Andruw $17.1m in 2009. They got him to defer $12m for free, in that they didn’t have to give up anything like more money overall. So at the very least it was “not bad”, especially given the cash constraints.
cash deferrals
Any time you can postpone money owed interest free, it is a good thing. A dollar now is worth more than a dollar a year from now, so we basically ended up paying FAJ less.
by CarolinaDodger on Dec 8, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
Not when you have
a cap on your payroll. It takes away money from next years team. Not a problem if they had a certain payroll in 2010 and then added the deferred money to that payroll but when they are using the deferred payroll to stay within 100 Million it hurt when trying to build the current team.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
It was great
Because we got O-dog for our last playoff run.
uh, well we got home field advatage throughout the playoffs. Uh, until the Phil’s beat us 3 on the road with 2 home games.
oh, nevermind.
Last O Dog home run = Moral Victory? I’m grasping at straws here. It seemed like a good idea at the time when we signed both Manny and Odog. I’de defer everyone’s contract to get one more go at it.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodgers8-2009dec08,0,3986061.story
Dylan Hernandez with a more detailed recap and interview with Colletti.
More Pudge stuff
Set aside for a moment giving a two-year contract to a 38 year old. Here are the top catcher salaries for 2010:
Posada – $13.1m
Mauer – $12.5m
Pierzynski – $6.25m
B.Molina – free agent
Martin – arbitration (earned $3.9m in 2009)
McCann – $5.5m
Snyder – $4.75m
Y.Molina – $4.25m
Laird – arbitration (earned $2.8m in 2009)
Pudge – $3m
Varitek – $3m
Pudge is the 10th highest paid catcher in baseball. Jesus Flores is hurt, but Nats’ GM Mike Rizzo called Pudge “a catcher that could fill in as an everyday guy in the short-term but that could morph into a mentor/teacher for Flores.”
So they are paying starter money for a quasi-backup, with a .297 OBP over his last three seasons. And Pudge will be 38-39 over the next two years. Meanwhile, Greg Zaun signed with the Brewers to be their starter, for one year plus an option for a guaranteed $2.15m with a maximum contract value of $4.25m.
That’s why the Pudge contract is dumb.
And yes, that’s why Martin has a make it or break it year ahead of him.
And you think
Martin via arbitration is about to become the 4th highes paid catcher in baseball?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Why isn’t Kim Ng’s argument that Martin shouldn’t be paid more than McCann who is both better and slightly more experienced?
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
That's an easy counter though
the Dodgers can say if McCann were in arbitration, he would easily earn more. His salary is low because he signed a multi-year contract super early.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
This in insane
I was sure Pudge would accept (what I considered) the foolish arbitration offer from Texas. Hey, who knows, maybe Texas offered Pudge arbitration on the wink and handshake agreement that he would refuse it.
Really, Washington just paid Pudge because he has name recognition. Horrible baseball move.
by Michael White on Dec 8, 2009 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not so sure
The Nat’s are not bumping up against any payroll ceiling in 2010, they have an extremely young pitching staff who could probably use the benefit of Pudge. While he may not be worth the money in a statistical sense given that it is only 3 Million and if he is able to mentor Flores and the pitching staff why not pay him that if that is what it was going to take to get him to play for a franchise that has no hope of winning in 2010 but could use someone like Pudge. Old catchers to me have plenty of wisdom to impart on catchers and pitchers, we are not talking about a 1st baseman here but a man who controls the game.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I agree with Phil. Catchers control the game and can often be a plethora of experience and knowledge that gets passed on to the up and comers. I also believe they based part of their decision on noteriety as well. Statistically will his numbers match the dollars? Probably not, but then again the Nats aren’t the most enticing team so they have to make up for it some other way. Reference : big girls just try harder LOL
by VeroJoe on Dec 8, 2009 4:35 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
From Heyman (non Dodgers, but NL West)
latest 3-way looks something like this: yanks get granderson; dbacks e-jax, i.kennedy; tigers scherzer, schlereth, a-jax, coke.
I still don't undestand
the DIamondbacks moving Sherzer for Jackson. That would be like us trading Billingsley for a comparable pitcher. What is the gain?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Don't know if I would do it
but it is starter + reliever for two starters, which in general is good, but I think Scherzer is the best of the 3 starters
True
but we are talking Ian Kennedy who has been bad more then he has been good in the majors and pretty much just missed all of 2009 with an injury even though it was not a shoulder or rotator.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I missed the fact
they also get Ian Kennedy. So Jackson/Kennedy is greater then Scherzer/Schlereth?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
sounds like a coin flip to me. Wasn’t Schlereth rated pretty highly? Is he closer material (I don’t know)?
His stuff looked
nasty to me but he didn’t have great success for the Diamondbacks due to control problems. Maybe the Diamondbacks simply don’t like pitchers whose first three letters areSCH.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Hard to pass up the presidential pedigree of that deal
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd do that if I'm AZ
get Kennedy in the NL and he can probably be a 4th starter.
I actually like that trade for all 3. Granderson is a very, very good fit for the Yankees.
Evidently
the Diamondbacks have never forgotten Edwin Jackson’s debut:)
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Scherzer also has 3 more years of club control than EJax. I think I’d rather have Sherzer/Schlereth than EJax/Kennedy, but maybe that’s just me.
And
Per Baseball HQ:
Max Scherzer (RHP, ARI) has well-known upside, but given his 4.55 ERA and 1.30 WHIP after July 1, many owners may think it’s a year or two away from becoming reality. A closer look shows he posted electric skills during that period: 9.4 Dom, 2.9 Ctl, 106 BPV. This is a budding ace.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I’ve seen Scherzer pitch twice at DS and he looked pretty impressive to me. I don’t see trading a cost-controlled potential ace – likely to be no worse than a 2/3 starter – for EJax, possibly a three at best, and Kennedy, maybe a middle rotation ceiling. Plus AZ may lose Webb after this season.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I remember an at bat by Martin against him in 2008
that ended up with Martin taking a backwards K and standing there mouthing, “What was that?” Vin Scully gave that little chuckle. I’ve liked Scherzer since. I’m a little shocked that the D’Backs would move him. Haren/Scherzer/Webb (Health?) would be awfully scary.
I still don't really see why the Tigers have their heart set on unloading Granderson
Is it just a money thing?
by Michael White on Dec 8, 2009 9:52 AM PST up reply actions
Remember
they lost A Jones and Marlon Byrd this winter. Hamilton is always hurt, and Murphy is a bit questionable. The current starting outfield figures to be Hamilton, Borbon, Cruz with Murphy in the mix. Since Byrd got plenty of playing time last year it would seem they could slot in Pierre somewhere given the health history of Hamilton. Or they may simply think Borbon is not ready. Plus they always have the DH to work with and Blalock’s health.
Wouldn’t say he’s the best fit for Texas and you’d think they would want to keep all the pitching they could get.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Ryan Church DFA'd by Braves
.813 career OPS against RHP.
I wouldn’t want him as a pinch-runner, but as a 4th/5th OF he’d be fine
Ha! :)
Actually, I think it was to create a spot on the 40-man for Soriano, who surprisingly accepted arbitration
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
Talk about a bite in
both buttocks. More money and they lose a decent player.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Update on the AZ/Det/NY 3-way
Rosenthal:
Revised 3-way prop – Tigers get 2 players from Yankees instead of 3. One of lefties likely out
Ed Price:
#Diamondbacks and #Tigers waiting on #Yankees to sign off on 3-way deal. Answer expected by 2 pm Eastern
From Noah Coslov (MLB.com):
Steve Gilbert – Diamondbacks reporter MLB.com says this 3-way deal is very close to getting completed
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
Sherman says medical records are being exchanged on Granderson. In another tweet Sherman says there’s no deadline on the deal, but one source says it’s “on the goal line.” He adds that removing Dunn from the deal was key for the Yanks.
this does not make sense
for the dbacks
Max Scherzer is better than e jax and kennedy, but whatever
by hirambocachica on Dec 8, 2009 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
We like trades
that we think weaken the competition.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I would be happy to see Scherzer out of the NL West, but I don’t understand this from AZ’s point of view, unless they are really high on I. Kennedy.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Well, he did go to USC so it’s easy to see why he is coveted :)
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Totally agree. Even though Granderson doesn’t steal many bases or have the best OBP skills, its not like the Yankees really value that much compared to other teams the way their team is built. Plus they can platoon Granderson with Melky against lefties, and Grandy will surely mash in the new Yankee stadium with that short right field porch.
Heyman
teams in agreement on trade. assuming medicals check out, it’s a go
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
I’m just jealous of any team that has payroll flexibility and doesn’t have to sell their top prospects so that they don’t have to pay salaries. Imagine the way this team could be built and positioned around the homegrown core.
I lol at the red sox
now they need to go out and get adrian gonzalez
by hirambocachica on Dec 8, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
They've got a lot to worry about
But it would be interesting to see Youkilis playing third full time.
If I'm the Padres
I want a whole lot for Gonzalez. He might have the best contract in baseball.
by Humma Kavula on Dec 8, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
Can you even imagine how good he could be
with any type of lineup around him? If I was managing against the Padres, I don’t think he would ever see a pitch anywhere near the strikezone.
Who do the Red Sox have?
You’d have to start with one of Buchholz or Lester, right? Where do you go from there?
by Humma Kavula on Dec 8, 2009 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
lester = kershaw ,so no
the padres need bucholz, Ryan Westmorelandand and casey kelly
by hirambocachica on Dec 8, 2009 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
A lot of Yankees fans seem to be upset
however no one (aside from Red Sox fans) more overvalue their prospects IMO.
I wonder what DBacks fans are thinking right now.
If Ken Tremendous was a D'Backs fan I would expect
Fuck the heck?
Jim Bowden weighs in
D-backs view Scherzer as back-end reliever long term….which explains their side….Jackson behind Haren, Webb gives them 3 solid starters
By all means, Arizona, keep that scouting department.
Maybe Jim Bowden is just an idiot. Webb is a FA after this season. Scherzer is cost-controlled far longer than EJax.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Bowden didn't say
he considered Scherzer a reliever did he, didn’t he simply say that is how Arizona felt about him. Don’t shoot the messenger.
Delias will love this but when we traded Carlos Santana, Ned was trying to spin the fact that Santana was probably not going to remain a catcher, completely missing the point his bat will play anywhere but that is what teams do when they trade someone, they have to spin it.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Agreed
especially since, who was it, Kevin Goldstein(?), who said Santana’s bat was so good that if he was a 1B he would still be an “elite” prospect.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
So is this their push for the playoffs before losing Webb?
I just don’t get it otherwise. Not that it makes much sense anyway, but unless they are hanging their hopes on making a playoff run with Webb I am totally perplexed.
From everything I can see, AZ made this move out of assuming strong injury risk with both Scherzer and Schlereth… Perhaps they know a few things other teams don’t.
I agree…some injury risk would be the only way this makes sense for AZ. But that would probably come out in the medical records / physicals, no?
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
You would think so, but dare I bring up the name that should not be uttered.. it also starts out with Sch….. I think there is a pattern emerging!
The worst part about that
was that a doctor said his arm was going to explode and the Dodgers signed him anyway.
Some folks on the DBacks blog were discussing the strong possibility of the Verducci effect on Scherzer:
2008 IP: 56 majors, 53 minors so 109
2009 IP: 170.1 major, 4.2 minors so 175
That’s a BIG JUMP in innings pitched. Add that to his already injury-prone frame and wild delivery and it almost seems like a certainty to me.
Over on DT
Eric Enders makes the case for the trade: don’t overvalue Scherzer, who is just 9 months younger than Jackson, throws fewer innings than Jackson, and has pitched worse than Jackson.
If you’re down on Scherzer, this deal makes a lot more sense for AZ.
by Humma Kavula on Dec 8, 2009 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
FIP
Scherzer
2008: 3.33 (in just 56 IP)
2009: 3.87
Jackson
2008: 4.88
2009: 4.28
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
Interesting
that Scherzer’s FIP is 3.87 — lower than his ERA of 4.12 — when he had all of those unearned runs that Enders cites.
by Humma Kavula on Dec 8, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
That is a big jump
but wouldn’t the Tigers be aware of that too?
You would think. Maybe the Tigers really just need to dump the $10 MM or so they would have to pay since they are saddled with Magglio (amongst others) and that huge payroll for a team in a terrible economic market.
It definitely looks like salary dump to me
But they also didn’t hurt themselves too much. I like Granderson a lot, but getting a lot of young cost controlled pitching seems to be a smart way to go if you need to cut costs.
On the Simers link above
I thought this was interesting:
As for Frank McCourt … he works now out of an office in Beverly Hills. “Frank has had a desire for quite a while to separate himself from the day-to-day operations and focus his time on the developmental opportunity,” Mannion says. “Additional ventures to look at are the development of the 360 acres around the stadium and ballpark improvement. But I should say — Frank isn’t absent at all. He knows everything that’s going on.”
Given that the Dodgers couldn’t raise capital for the ballyhooed DS improvements this off season and last, I can’t imagine that there are any business partners or moneylenders that are hankering to go into business with Frank at the present time. I’ll bet he spends 100% of time consulting with his divorce lawyers and sorting paper clips.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I bet he's working his ass
off trying to raise more money.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
“Hey everybody, thanks for coming over for dinner. Glad to see all of you. Before we sit down to eat, I have a presentation to show you. Have I got a great investment opportunity for you….”
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Up until a few months ago, I worked in Beverly Hills, and often saw Frank eating at La Scala. I think nearly every time I saw him, he was dining with either his wife or one of his sons or some combination of the two. I rarely ever saw him eating with a bunch of businessman as one would expect as that is the reason most people go there for lunch.
Did he always ask the restaurant
if he could differ paying his check over five?
Interesting take by Jay Jaffe
of FutilityInfielder.com, regarding the Tigers’ side of the deal:
Tigers have $72 million of junk on 2010 payroll, but freed none of it while trading the guys who might have enticed another team to eat $
latimes
“K-Cup” klatsch: Diedrich Coffee agrees to be swallowed by Green Mountain Roasters http://j.mp/4UXzrA by @latimesjerry RT @latimesbiz
Did you think this was either…
A) True Brew LA, the coffee blog
or
B) True Bleu LA, the food bog?
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
Post All-Star Break 2009
Pitcher A: 5.07 ERA, 5.39 FIP
Pitcher B: 5.20 ERA, 4.28 FIP
One is questioned for his toughness; the other is hailed as a solid pickup by his new team
I knew there’d be a Bills sighting soon!
by KellyStephen on Dec 8, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, the Giants offer of Freddy Lewis and Kevin Frendsen is underwhelming.
Lewis being the Giants version of Matt Kemp my ass!
hahaha
fred lewis = matt kemp
yet another mcc moment hahaha
by hirambocachica on Dec 8, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
This was posted at 11:20 AM PST
A.J. Hinch is talking to the media now for his pre-scheduled availability, and he was asked a question about the development of the kids in Arizona, the young rotation, etc., and he kept going on and on about Max Scherzer’s development as a starter and how he’s an ace-in-training.
I suppose it’s possible that he’s playing company man and talking up Max for purposes of making sure the trade gets cemented, but there’s a definite whiff of “Max Scherzer is one of my starting pitchers, and boy I sure am happy to have him” about it all.
If we deal Pierre for an overpriced starter, what are the chances Ned doesn’t feel comfortable with XPaul and he signs RANDY WINN?
There seem to be a lot of “probably the ultimate Ned guys”
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
There are a lot of Ned Guys: people who have a lot of the traits he values in a player. But ultimate Ned guys are more limited: I’m thinking Bill Mueller, Mark Sweeney, etc. Winn is in that group.
*Mid 30s veteran
*Batted .290 during his recent Giants career
*Speed
*He’d love to sign away a Dodger “killer”
I have no idea if he’s a Torre guy, though.
Dodger killer
Maybe he can get Carlos Ruiz.
by Humma Kavula on Dec 8, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
Peter Gammons is leaving ESPN when the winter meetings are done.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 12:09 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Gammons has become unreadable / watchable lately
I think it’s his time. He’s such a Sox honk that it’s tough to take anything he says seriously. Per him – they have like 97 of the top 100 prospects in baseball.
Ya gotta think
that somebody is going to hire him. Somebody would want him for his name alone.
by Humma Kavula on Dec 8, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
I would
He just needs a job that doesn’t require him to evaluate or analyze. I still think he is really good at reporting the information he gets through his conversations with players, managers, and owners.
His analysis is getting pretty bad, though. Maybe he caught it from the other guys at ESPN. It might be a condition that will clear up once he gets out of Bristol.
If the Dodgers do nothing but sign a Garland / Padilla type to start -
do we repeat as NL West champs?
We need to sign someone with upside, ala Wolf from last year. Nobody expected that kind of performance, but his strikeout track record made him a great gamble.
This year’s Wolf, to me, is Bedard.
Ned guy?
He’s a guy that used to be good but now carries substantial risk, and to get him, Ned will have to overpay for a short contract.
Ha! He’s a Ned guy after all!
…..but is he an ultimate Ned guy?!?!
by Humma Kavula on Dec 8, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
Scene
INT. WINDOWLESS MEETING ROOM DEEP IN CHAVEZ RAVINE
It is impossible to tell if it is day or night. NED COLLETTI, KIM NG, and LOGAN WHITE all look sleep deprived. VIN SCULLY sits in the corner, reading a book.
NG
I think we should pick up Bedard.
COLLETTI
Sell me.
WHITE
He usta be good. Now getting older and seems to be injured all the time.
COLLETTI
I like it.
NG
Pitches well when he’s in the lineup, though.
SCULLY (looking up)
I don’t want to criticize, but ya don’t really say “in the lineup” about a pitcher. Try “answer the bell.” (goes back to reading)
NG
…..thanks.
COLLETTI
Sounds like he’s my kind of guy. But is he an ultimate my kind of guy?
(Ng and White stare at Colletti blankly. Scully just shakes his head.)
by Humma Kavula on Dec 8, 2009 12:46 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Over 40
He fits the Dodger’s target free agen demographic.
Will he work for beef jerkey, sunflower seeds, hubba bubba, and a parcel of the Dodger staium parking lot?
That is the burning question.
I love all the comments on mlbtraderumors
that say “Jackson sucks but will benefit by being in the NL West.”
If they’d say moving from the AL to the NL, sure, I’ll let that slide. But isn’t the AL Central the worst division in baseball?
Per
MLBTR the Dodgers are only offering one year deals
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
To be fair, is there really anyone in the Dodgers’ price range worth giving multiple years?
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 12:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Randy Newman!
He could perform “I Love L.A.” after every win, and “It’s Money That I Love” after every loss!
No
But it’s still pretty pathetic for the Los Angeles Dodgers to be operating this way. I’m sure it will be a one year deal deferred over 5, so that we continue having this problem.
I agree
DodgerDivorce.com has a great post today regarding that – that the club is operating on the margins and missing opportunities.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 8, 2009 1:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I hate to sound pessimistic, but the more I think about the margins, the more I realize how completely F’d we are!
Ned probably won’t even be able to afford a high risk guy like Sheets/Bedard/Duchsherer/Harden because other teams with money are going to be in on those guys as well. Also consider what Brad Penny got.
I fear we are going to get someone like Braden Looper on a one-year deal instead.
Then mid-season, when we are still competing but it is close, Ned will sell off one of Withrow/Martin/Miller/Eovaldi etc. to acquire Jon Garland again (or someone in that mold).
The only scenarios I can see things improving are if the divorce proceedings aren’t as nasty as we all expect, or the credit markets thaw out enough for Frank to restructure one of his loans yet again (which is not f…ing likely).
Yep.
I’m in the glass-half-empty crowd. Crazy stuff can happen and flukes happen all the time, but if things go the way they’re looking, it’s just as Joshua Fisher (is that his name?) says: the Dodgers will be competitive in ’10, but things look not so good for ’11 and beyond.
No
I basically agree wholeheartedly with this strategy.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I always enjoy this time of the year, following the proverbial hot stove and what not, but it is quite disappointing that there really will be nothing substantive to read or talk about with the Dodgers in the headline.
I am also
I had hoped we could be players for one of Harden/Sheets/Bedard or even lesser ones like Escobar or Dusch…. but it is what it is. Someone like Padilla at four million and a battle between Elbert/McDonald/Haeger/Stults/Lindblom is not the end of the world.
My only real worry is that once again we will use our future to get someone to help in the stretch run when we could have just bought that person now.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Thought this was funny.
The D’Backs offered Chris Snyder to the Rangers for C.J. Wilson and were turned down, reports MLB.com’s T.R. Sullivan. Wilson tweets that he’s “borderline offended” by Arizona’s offer.
I love the Olney tidbit that we're on "lockdown financially"
My wife tells me this quite often, was hoping for a different fate for the Dodgers
We now know the Dodgers paremeters
well it’s s rumor, but it passes the smell test.
The only players we will sign with be 1 year deals for less than what Wolf would have gotten.
It may be that someone decent is available at the end of the FA signing period. Last year people arguably overpaid at the beginning as well.
ah never mind
I see that the item is for pitchers. As Phil says, given who’s available this is not a bad strategy.
Per Dylan Hernandez, the Dodgers named Vance Lovelace the director of pro scouting.
Lovelace was the guy largely responsible for the advance scouting of the Cubs before the 2008 NLDS. During my Camelback Ranch tour, Ned spoke his praises quite highly, and even said that Lovelace was so passionate about and did such a good job with the scouting report on the Cubs that Colletti had Lovelace deliver the report to the players directly (usually done by the coaching staff).
dylanohernandez
The position was newly created. @Tripon01 Who was the previous director of pro scouting?
Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!
The Dodgers are perfecting
the business model of giving titles and promotions instead of raises.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
No wonder
our prospects all have command issues. I remembered Lovelace as a big “wild ass lefty” and sure enough that is exactly what he was. . He was big time number one pick for Cubs and the price the Cubs paid for our own Ron Cey. Safe to say we did not get a very good return for the penguin.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I mean - come on
16 seasons in the minor leagues and he had a career walk rate of 7.7 with highs of 13. 2. That is right he walked 13 guys every nine inning and yet managed to pitch 16 seasons in the minors because his K rate was also …. Check it out, baseball reference has how many players he walked every season but no K information. Guess we have to hit the Cube for the full picture.
I’m just glad he’s a scout and not an instructor.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I didn't know Dylan Hernandez of LA Times Read this Blog
Colletti has perfected the art of dumpster diving.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodgers7-2009dec07,0,5728134,full.story
That was great, cynicism has gone mainstream.
New Lovelace post up
http://www.truebluela.com/2009/12/8/1191905/dodgers-trade-penguin-get-director
That’s what I get for taking lunch (missed the press release at first)
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
NL West Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
San Diego
|
60 | 42 | .588 | 0 | Lost 2 |
|
San Francisco
|
60 | 45 | .571 | 1.5 | Won 2 |
|
Los Angeles
|
54 | 50 | .519 | 7 | Lost 4 |
|
Colorado
|
54 | 50 | .519 | 7 | Won 3 |
|
Arizona
|
38 | 66 | .365 | 23 | Lost 1 |
(updated 7.31.2010 at 9:51 PM PDT)
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
