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The All-Time LA Dodger Team: The #3 Starter

All-Time Lineup#1 | #2 | #3 | #4 | #5 | #6 | #7 | #8
All-Time Starting Pitchers#1 | #2

Three_20amigos_medium

It's hard to imagine a Dodger pitching staff without Sandy and Big D, so it's only fitting that our pitching staff is led by the duo that led the greatest era in LA Dodger history.

All-Time LA Dodger Starting Pitchers

No Player Pos
32 Sandy Koufax
LHP
53 Don Drysdale RHP
 
 
 

Who fits in as the #3 starter?  To determine the #3 starter, the voting is the same as before, except that Koufax & Drysdale are no longer eligible.

Eric's Pick

Since I picked Orel Hershiser for the #2 spot, I'm inclined to sticking with The Bulldog here.  But let's look at Orel compared with some of the other possibilities.  Here are the top 5 seasons by ERA+

Hershiser Sutton Valenzuela Brown Messersmith
170 161 141 169 149
148 160 135 169 132
148 144 122 143 129
133 127 116 --- ---
131 121 110 --- ---

Both Kevin Brown and Andy Messersmith were great for three seasons -- Brown moreso than Messersmith -- but just didn't have the longevity, for me, to be this high in the pitching staff.  Brown did put up a 150 ERA+ in 115 innings in 2001, but I didn't include it on the table due to lack of IP.

Orel and Fernando both had their greatest seasons in 1985.  Actually, so did Bob Welch (although Welch had a higher 174 ERA+ in his rookie year, in 111 IP partially out of the bullpen).  That 1985 team was a damned good team.  Stupid Cardinals.  Willie McGee stole Pedro's MVP, and Ozzie and Jack Clark crushed my dreams.  If I didn't have a sturdy head on my 9-year old shoulders, I may have taken Jack Buck's advice to "Go crazy, folks!"

Let's look at the best five seasons using VORP:

Hershiser Valenzuela Sutton Brown Messersmith
63.7 54.6 62.3 82.6 84.4
58.5 48.9 61.0 71.6 67.3
56.8 44.4 57.5 63.4 46.9
55.7 43.3 52.0 32.5 1.1
37.0 32.1 51.5 0.8 ---

Don Sutton looks a lot better in this regard.  The top 4 seasons for Hershiser and Sutton are remarkably similar, but where The Perm © sets himself apart are his next group of best seasons.  Sutton has four more seasons (making 8 in total) better than Orel's 5th best year.  Sutton gets a bad rap for being a weak Hall of Famer, barely better than average (108 ERA+), but he provided a great deal of value to the Dodgers for 15 years.  In a surprise, I'm going with Don Sutton to eat up innings as our #3 starter, giving out rotation 3 Hall of Famers out of the gate.

Phil's Pick

You really can't go wrong here but I'm going with the sentimental favorite Fernando Valenzuela. I like to mix up the rotation so having a LH in the 3rd slot works for me. I'll grant you that he might not have been better then Orel or Don or Brown or Andy at their peaks but did any of them get their own song?

Who's your pick?

Poll
Who is the #3 Starter on the All-Time LA Dodger Team?
Don Sutton
23 votes
Claude Osteen
2 votes
Fernando Valenzuela
37 votes
Orel Hershiser
96 votes
Bob Welch
1 votes
Burt Hooton
1 votes
Ramon Martinez
1 votes
Tommy John
1 votes
Derek Lowe
1 votes
Kevin Brown
4 votes
Andy Messersmith
1 votes

168 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 7 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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That was my thought going in...

but VORP changed my mind. I’m fairly certain Orel will win this poll though.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Feb 4, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

in the end

the final three will likely be Bulldog, Brown, Fernando. A good case on the numbers would be Bulldog, Brown and Sutton, but I can’t see a modern poll getting through 5 SP without Fernando there.

by Paul Scott on Feb 4, 2009 11:02 AM PST reply actions  

Brown

I can see the argument for Kevin Brown, but I think enough people hate him that he won’t win a spot in the top 5.

My guess for the final 3 are Orel, Fernando, and Sutton.

-Eric

by Eric Stephen on Feb 4, 2009 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

re:

Not sure if hate is the right word as all the others were home grown Dodgers as opposed to a free agent. Not sure if you noticed but only Dusty Baker was not a home grown Dodger on our lineup. Pedro came over at 17 years old so I consider him home grown. Fans just relate more to the home grown players then they do to the free agents. Part of that of course is that the free agents are here for a much shorter time. To me Brown and Andy were probably better during their peak years with the Dodgers but I won’t be voting for either one on my all – time team. Just not enough games for me.

My biggest surprise in doing this study has been how good Burt Hooten was. For some reason I just remember him as a 2nd/3rd banana not the top guy for three years even though I was a big fan of his.

by meercatjohn on Feb 4, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Looks like Orel

will win going away. We should probably be ready to run number 4 some time tonight.

by meercatjohn on Feb 4, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

re:

Bob Hendley is saying “I told you so” right about now.

by meercatjohn on Feb 4, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Rotation

I’m going to like this staff. I have the right to remember them as they pitched in their prime year or even shorter stretch.

by Gen3blu on Feb 4, 2009 2:31 PM PST reply actions  

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2012 Dodgers Payroll

Italics denote estimates
Pos No Player 2012 Salary
C 17 Ellis $500,000 team control
1B 7 Loney $6,375,000
2B 14 Ellis $2,500,000
3B 5 Uribe $8,000,000
SS 9 Gordon $485,000 team control
LF 21 Rivera $4,000,000
CF 27 Kemp $10,000,000
RF 16 Ethier $10,950,000

IF/OF 6 Hairston $2,250,000
OF 10 Gwynn $850,000
2B/3B 3 Kennedy $800,000
C 18 Treanor $850,000
IF 12 Sellers $485,000 team control

SP 22 Kershaw $6,000,000
SP 58 Billingsley $9,000,000
SP 29 Lilly $12,000,000
SP 35 Capuano $3,000,000
SP 44
Harang $3,000,000

CL 54 Guerra $485,000 team control
RHP 74
Jansen $500,000 team control
RHP 55 Guerrier $4,750,000
RHP 60 Coffey $1,000,000
RHP 66 MacDougal $650,000
LHP 57 Elbert $485,000 team control
RHP 36
Hawksworth $500,000 team control

TJ 41 De La Rosa $485,000 team control



Manny $8,087,432 deferred


Andruw $3,375,000 deferred


Pierre $3,050,000 deferred
Furcal $3,000,000 deferred
Kuroda $2,000,000 deferred
Garland $1,500,000 option buyout
Blake $1,250,000 option buyout

Totals
$112,162,432

For more detailed information, click here.

Players on 40-man roster used as roster
fillers until moves are made.

Current 40-man roster count: 40
(not including Belisario)

2012 Non-Roster Invitees

No Player Age*
63 Jose Ascanio rhp
27
61 Alberto Castillo lhp
36
56 Matt Chico lhp
29
33 John Grabow lhp
33
59 Angel Guzman rhp
30
47 Wil Ledezma lhp
31
72 Shane Lindsay rhp
27
62 Fernando Nieve rhp 29
73 Scott Rice lhp 30
70 Will Savage rhp
27
71 Ryan Tucker rhp
25
28 Jamey Wright rhp
37

30 Josh Bard c 34
82 Griff Erickson c 24
81 Matt Wallachc 26
67 Jeff Baisley 3b/1b 29
65 Luis Cruz ss/2b 28
37 Josh Fields 3b 29
64 Lance Zawadzki if 27
56 Cory Sullivan of 32

*Age on June 30, 2012

NRI count: 20

For more info, click here.


Manager

Eric___ned___reporters_2011_trade_deadline_small Eric Stephen

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