A Non Rational Look at the Manny Ramirez Suspension
Many of you may think this is crap but here goes anyway.
The problem I have with the analysis that Brendan did is the given that the wins we lose are strictly based on Manny's performance with Pierre as his replacement. The trickle down effect of losing a starting outfielder of Manny's ability could be larger then that. If Kemp/Ethier go down then Paul becomes a starting outfielder and the best outfield we'd seen in a generation could become Paul/Kemp/Pierre. We now have a very fine line we have to toe so that this does not become more problematic. We have had a great start with zero injuries to our starting position players and it is doubtful that will continue given the age of Blake and the injury history of Hudson/Furcal. Manny's production would have masked those injuries if they occur, Juan Pierre's production will only fuel the problem. We also have no idea how much the young players will handle the weight with Manny not there to bail them out. This team has no legitimate clean up hitter and will attempt to fill the hole with a singles hitting first baseman.
Of all the sabremetric analysis being done the one I pay attention to the least is how many wins one player is worth because a player is not an island but a component of the team and when you take that component out or add that component in the variables change to much to just base the assumptions on statistical productivity. It is a fun exercise but not one I pay much attention to.
Manny does need to apologize to his teammates and fans. One should be different then the other. I don't really care what he says to his teammates that is between him and them but I do care what he says to young fans. This is just like a 50 game injury but it was self induced much like the Jeff Kent incident with his motor cycle.
I've only got one friend who has a child who has Manny as his hero, at 5 1/2 he loves watching the Dodgers specifically because of Manny. I'm not sure how many of you have children who you have to explain to them that Manny won't be on TV or at the game for a while. Dodger fans who have kids are usually quite excited when their children become fans and a little disappointed when they don't. Manny made that task easier the day he showed up. As adults many of you probably poo poo this as no big deal but maybe you should remember back to who your Dodger hero was when your were 5-8 years old and how you would have felt to find out he cheated and was suspended for 50 games.
Finally unlike many of you I do care about steroid use in the sport I love. Most of my love of the game is based on statistics and I hate the unknown variables that steroids or greenies or any other substance adds to the noise of the numbers. We can figure out park effects, home/road splits, and a host of other known quantities but the performance enhancing variables screw the pooch for me. I'm also not fond of some players using them and out performing those who choose not to. Given the large % of players who seemed to use PED's I think we can reasonably say that a certain % of them made the major leagues based on PED usage while some players who may have been borderline, remained borderline because they didn't want to take the health risk for family or long term reasons. Some have argued that TJ surgery and other medical procedures have the same effect as PED usage. That is true but those procedures are not illegal and they don't have the possible long term health consequences of the banned PED's. It is a tough choice a male 22 year old has to make between starting a family and trying to improve his game because the inferior player next to him is using PED's. In my mind it is a choice I don't want them to have to make so I'm quite in favor of the drug testing. Now some chemical body builder is going to say that PED's are perfectly safe if used correctly. And they may be right just as a car is perfectly safe when used correctly or drinking in moderation is perfectly safe. Is the 15 year old with no money and no brains going to use them correctly? The Dominicans trying to get off the island? The ignorant or simply the stupid? Will agents take advantage of clients knowing that performance means money to them? These days I'd rather tread on the side of caution. Back when I was 25 I'd say no to any law/rule that limits personal freedom because it was okay to "cull the herd" but that is an elitist view of a know it all 25 year old who doesn't value people or life.
I have no interest in tearing down Manny Ramirez but I also have no interest in defending him or getting off my ass and cheering him as 50,000 fans will do the day he comes back.
What he does on the field to help the Dodgers win I will cheer but not with the same joy and passion I did from Aug 1st - May 6th.
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What he does on the field to help the Dodgers win I will cheer but not with the same joy and passion I did from Aug 1st – May 6th.
I think that’s fine. Its clear that we can’t go back to the old days, but that doesn’t that we as fans have to give up on Manny. I will cheer also, but I don’t know if I will be as gung ho for a Manny at bat, or wonder just a bit Manny’s performance will be like without the PED he was taking.
Agreed
I have loved the Dodgers since I was a boy and my dad took me to see Lopes, Garvey, Cey, Russell, Smith, Landreaux, and the others. Manny will come and go but I will always bleed Dodger Blue.
yep...
barry didnt cost his team any games. face it once pujols gets caught, officially every slugger in baseball did steroids. if u think apologizing for it makes u a better person, whoopteedoo they all still did it and they’d probably all do it again if they knew they wouldnt get caught its just human nature
Other then lying to a grand jury and facing criminal charges I guess that logic holds true. Though I will admit I do think it is a witch hunt and a complete waste of taxpayer money. They would have done better by just going after his non payment of taxes.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I call bullshit
Read the news, pull your head out of your ass, and stop trolling around here.
Douche-canoe.
2009 LA Kings Hockey: thanks to Joe Sakic's snowblower, WE'RE BETTER THAN THE AV'S!!!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on May 8, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with your comment on roids
It makes no sense to me to defend their use. Either provide EVERY player in the game with weekly mandatory injections or ban them aggressively. There is no middle ground here.
That’s why we have rules in baseball, like you can’t use a metal bat, Vaseline on the ball, etc. to draw lines in what is OK and what is against the rules.
I’m disappointed in Manny, I think the “that’s just Manny being Barry” comment sums up my feelings and reprehension, but I was not shocked, and I will forgive, and if he hits forget as long as he stays clean of every single substance on that list from here on out.
I appreciate both your's and Brendan's viewpoints on this
And I can very much identify with your concluding paragraph.
Kids And Steroids
I’m not a parent, so I don’t really know how it is, but a lot of kids that I coach ask about A-Rod/Bonds/Manny, and I just tell them the truth. Kids really aren’t that dumb, and they can figure things out. In fact, it’s actually a good time to talk about morality, so I don’t mind that much.
15 year olds drink and smoke all the time. Uneducated people drink and smoke arguably more than anybody. Those two drugs are more dangerous than steroids. Though nobody really seems to demonize those things very much because they are a part of our culture.
I also think it comes down to how you handle your own kids as a parent. I’ve had easy access to drugs in high school and beyond. The “jock” culture pretty much makes it mandatory. It was a choice not to do them. I assume my parents did a good job, or maybe it was just me, who knows. Regardless, I think everybody can take responsibility for their kids, and their kids can take responsibility for themselves.
Drug Testing
Doesn’t really make a huge impact, IMO. There are so many ways around it. Sorry to rain on everybody’s “pure game” parade, but using gear is pretty much a requirement in the NFL, and it’s the same way in the Olympics for certain events (hello track and field). It’s the world we live in today. :o
The decline in offensive numbers since testing went into effect would seem to disagree with your assessment that testing has little effect. We have no Brett Boone’s these days.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Sorta
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/bat.shtml
Either way, most of the scare isn’t of drug testing itself. After all, Manny didn’t get caught by a test necessarily. He got caught by leaving a paper trail with his doctor. Same way Giambi/Bonds/Ankiel and everybody else on the Mitchell Report got caught. Not from testing, but from FBI and government investigations.
Testing is great for the league to say “hey look at us, we’re trying”, but it’s not really dissuading anybody in any sport from cheating.
Wait until gene doping comes out. :o
by Chad Moriyama on May 10, 2009 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Kensai I see your point
Today I watch tale end of espn baseball tonight, and to hear Dave Winbag and Krook act like they are above it all LOL. Were do they get of telling someone how they should act, who freaking cares about there jerk opinions. I am sick of the writers and casters telling us the fans how we should feel, next they will have the Van Gundie bros. giving advice.
Paul D. Kelley
by so.cal.native1952 on May 10, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions























