Dodger Rumors 6/22

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 22, 2009 9:00 AM PDT in News Comment 61 comments

There's a little more than a month until the July 31st trade deadline but the trade market is starting to heat up. So let's take a look at a couple of rumors swirling about the Dodgers.

According to Bill Shaikin of the LA Times the Dodgers aren't interested in free agent pitcher Pedro Martinez. Shaikin writes:

"The Angels scouted Martinez at his workout last week in the Dominican Republic. The Dodgers did not scout the workout, and Manager Joe Torre said that the team has not discussed Martinez since spring training."

Pedro is a lock for the Hall of Fame, but he is nowhere near the pitcher he once was. He has only thrown 137 MLB innings from 2007-2009 and his ERA and FIP last year were the highest of his career. His fastball has lost its zip in recent years; according to a source in the article he was throwing it around 85 MPH at the workout. According to the same source:

"Martinez had good arm speed and quality off-speed pitches but said teams would have to consider whether he could pitch effectively at that velocity or whether he might regain enough velocity in time to help this season."

If the report is true, it's probably a good thing that the Dodgers aren't going after him, especially given his pricetag.

On the trade front, Ken Gurnick writes that Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti is on a trip across the country to scout the Dodgers various prospects. Gurnick goes on to say:

"The likely reason is to determine who to keep and who to include in deals as he looks to bolster the starting rotation. One veteran rumored on his radar is Seattle left-hander Jarrod Washburn."

We should probably expect a trade for pitching sometime between now and the deadline. The question is whether the Dodgers acquire an ace, a mid rotation starter, or a reliever. And if we do want a mid-rotation starter, is Washburn the guy? He's having a great year with a 3.24 ERA and a 3.76 FIP in 83.1 innings, although his 6.8% HR/FB ratio is unsustainable. ZiPS projects a 4.55 ERA out of Washburn for the remainder of the season. Personally I'd be worried that Colletti would overvalue Washburn's improvements and give up too much in a trade, but that's just me.

I don't want to forget to mention Kenchanayoh's insightful fanpost examining some of the possible moves the Dodgers could make to upgrade the team for the post-season push. Make sure to take a look at that as well.

Poll

What do you want the Dodgers to trade for before the July 31st trading deadline? Keep in mind that the better the player you trade for the more you have to give up.

A top of the rotation ace like Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay.

446 votes

A mid-rotation starter like Jarrod Washburn or Doug Davis.

192 votes

A set-up man like Jose Valverde or George Sherrill.

116 votes

A situational relief arm like John Grabow or Rafael Betancourt.

50 votes

Keep the team as is, we don't need any upgrades.

205 votes

1009 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

how about signing free agent Ben Sheets if he is fully recovered

by matthewmafa on Jun 22, 2009 10:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

I actually had that same conversation this morning at the gym. Sheets would essentially be a lost cost high upside type signing. And with the draft now passed, no need to worry about losing a draft pick on signing him. He seems like a better gamble than Pedro because he’s younger and would conceivably come cheaper.

by Michael White on Jun 22, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was under the assumption

That Sheets was going to sign with the Rangers.

by pdotmac1 on Jun 22, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

same here

but when is sheets coming back??

Dodgers - 2008 NL West Champions
Cardinals - 2008 NFC Champions

by wongy on Jun 22, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's questionable

Whether he will be able to contribute this year.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 23, 2009 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sheets

would be fine, if we are looking to take a low-cost high-upside dollar only risk. Personally, I love the idea. I don’t think it is a likely good bet, however, if your only concern is post-season rotation. I’d say, however, to pick him up, regardless of other plans, since the upside is so high.

My biggest concern on a trade is that Ned has made 1 good trade – Ethier – and a ton of bad ones. (Ethier, of course, has not outperformed Bradley, but we traded one year of Bradley for 6 of Ethier, so that is going to work out big in our favor – too bad we did not sign Bradley again when he was available. ) I don’t trust Ned and his FO to do anything other than get us some +1 win pitcher in return for several very good prospects. Then, it will be luck more than anything else as to whether than middling pitcher helps or hurts when the playoffs come. We clearly will not need any help to actually make the playoffs.

My vote is on stand pat. We have enough depth on the team already for pitching. If you aren’t going ot go big and get a top of the rotation guy for a couple years, then doing nothing is the best move of all.

by Paul Scott on Jun 22, 2009 11:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I voted situational reliever

Only because I am almost sure that we will make some trade and I think another decent relief arm (who we don’t give up much in return for) would help the team a bit. It should allow Troncoso and Belisario to rest more at least.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 22, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ned has made more than 1 good trade. And every GM has made bad ones.

Either way, as a fan, our trust in Ned doesn’t really matter, because he’s not going to listen to us.

by pdotmac1 on Jun 22, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trades

I don’t see anyone in our top 10 (BA) that I’d feel comfortable moving in a deadline trade:

1. Lambo
2. McDonald
3. Martin
4. Lindblom
5. Elbert
6. DeJesus (injured)
7. Gordon
8. Bell
9. Withrow
10. Eovaldi

Every guy on this list that’s playing in the minors has shown flashes of brilliance this year. Perhaps Lambo has been underwhelming for a #1 prospect, but he’s only 20 playing in AA (where most guys are 2, 3, 4 years older).

If I had to guess, the guy Ned will trade is Elbert. He’s a potentially valuable LHP, but he doesn’t have the command to start in the bigs, most likely. And with Leach entrenched into our bullpen, Elbert doesn’t really have a spot in the near future.

by silverwidow on Jun 22, 2009 11:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Not listed- Blake Dewitt

I’ve maintained for a while that I thought Dewitt could (and should) be included if we are interested in a front of the rotation starter. Dewitt and Elbert for Oswalt? I do that trade in a second.

by Michael White on Jun 22, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure about Oswalt...

When was the last time you remember the Astro’s writing off the season and selling assets? Whether or not it’s based on their myopia, I can’t ever remember Houston declaring themselves sellers and enter into rebuilding…

2009 LA Kings Hockey: thanks to Joe Sakic's snowblower, WE'RE BETTER THAN THE AV'S!!!!

by DodgerBlueBalls on Jun 22, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Astros apparentely don't believe in rebuilding.

We know nothing about the enemy. But we can assume this: they stand for everything we don’t stand for. Also they told me you guys look like dorks!

by Sordid on Jun 22, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Although I think they might trade Valverde or Tejada, but not Oswalt.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 22, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Totally in agreement with you, Brendan

I forgot that they have lesser assets such as Valverde and Tejada, but there’s no way I see Houston sending up such a great big white flag as trading away Oswalt…

2009 LA Kings Hockey: thanks to Joe Sakic's snowblower, WE'RE BETTER THAN THE AV'S!!!!

by DodgerBlueBalls on Jun 22, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

And I think most of the blame for their reluctance to rebuld ha to be put on Drayton McLane.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 22, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m curious why we are evaluating Houston negatively for (as has been said) their lack of rebuilding. They went to the World Series as recently as 2005 and last year they gone royally screwed over by a rain out and then being forced to play a “home” game against the Cubs in Chicago. Otherwise, that team was absolutely in the hunt for another playoff trip. I don’t think management should be “blamed” for anything as they’ve enjoyed more recent success than (for example) the Chicago Cubs.

The only reason I threw out Oswalt was because I saw his name on the “Rumor Central” feature on ESPN. But I understand Houston’s reluctance to hold fire sales since they have a recent history of being a team that has late rallies to get themselves into playoff position.

by Michael White on Jun 22, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that the Houston way is unsustainable in the long run. Houston reminds me of the Giants teams before this year. Both teams acquire aging veterans and
having a weak farm system. This ensures that as the team gets older and older the losses will begin to pile up.

There is an argument to be made for a team trying to win it all one year but all the Astros have to show for their work is their 2005 playoff appearance.

We know nothing about the enemy. But we can assume this: they stand for everything we don’t stand for. Also they told me you guys look like dorks!

by Sordid on Jun 22, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Giants are a great comparison, Sordid. Until recent years, if their playoff hopes were clearly out of reach, they have never seemed willing to sell off any assets on their major league club with the intention of restocking their minor league cupboard and building for the future. I don’t believe that Houston has ever gone with this M.O. as well…

2009 LA Kings Hockey: thanks to Joe Sakic's snowblower, WE'RE BETTER THAN THE AV'S!!!!

by DodgerBlueBalls on Jun 23, 2009 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am not sure we have prospects that a team would trade for right now

The longer Hu and DeWitt play in AAA, the more they are exposed. Elbert has flashes but he’s not really had a solid year since 2006, McDonald may be good but not worth a good pitcher by himself.

The guys down in A ball (great lakes) are still pretty raw and rarely do you package anyone under the age 21.

There is a reason why teams always ask for the young players already on the Dodgers, they have shown that can play and yet they are stll young and affordable. But the Dodgers won’t trade those guys so right now, it might have to be more of a salary dump and I don’t know if that can happen either.

by bhsportsguy on Jun 22, 2009 12:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Wagner Mateo

We are supposedly in the hunt to sign this kid (a 16 y.o. Dominican CF). He has MEGA ELITE power and a cannon arm. Footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdBIFERcKtk

by silverwidow on Jun 22, 2009 1:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Everyone is in on Waner Mateo though.

by Tripon on Jun 22, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cliff Lee does not belong in the same level as Roy Halladay

One season cannot make you elite. Look at Lee’s teammate Fausto Carmona.

by mr_blond on Jun 22, 2009 2:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

In defense of Lee, he did win 18 games in 2005, plus 14 win season’s in 04 and 06.. He’s not exactly a flash in the pan, he had one disastrous year in 2006 but otherwise has been one of the best starters in baseball since 2004. He also has a reasonable 8M club option in 2010.

by RolexEmbezzled on Jun 22, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wins are quite possibly the worst way to evaluate a pitcher.

Paris Hilton, Burberry plaid, reality TV, mullets, Zima, Dubya, and the Sonics being sold to Oklahoma City. - Yahoo Answer results for "7 Signs of the Apocalypse"

by bluemax on Jun 23, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Carmona has never had a FIP below 3.94

Lee had a 2.83 FIP last year and has a 3.24 FIP this year. He also had a 3.79 FIP in 2005. Lee and Carmona aren’t close to being equivalent pitchers. And while I agree that Halladay is better than Lee, I think it’s fair to say they are both top of the rotation pitchers.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 23, 2009 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pedro?

Does he look a little heavy in that photo? Looks like a fair amount of skin under that chin. I have my doubts that Pedro Martinez at 85 mph is going to be very effective.

by David Young on Jun 22, 2009 8:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Hyang-Nam Choi

The 38-year old Korean pitcher the Dodgers signed a few weeks ago still has good-looking numbers for the Isotopes:
19 2/3 IP, 12 H, 5 ER, 2 HR, 29/5 K/BB, .174 opponent’s BA

Maybe it’s just a flash of extra-effectiveness. The one other time he played for a U.S. team, he was decent for Cleveland’s AAA team in 2006, but they didn’t think enough of him to try him in the majors, I guess. Also working against him is that he is not the 40-man.

by David Young on Jun 22, 2009 8:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd trade Mitch Jones for Choi in a second.

I have no idea what Choi can really do. I know Jones can’t hit a breaking ball to save his life.

by Tripon on Jun 22, 2009 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the Shoutout Brendan

i vote reliever as well

by Kenchanayoh on Jun 22, 2009 11:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

No problem

Your the one who wrote the fanpost.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 23, 2009 1:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Valverde

I would love Jose on the team! He is a good reliever that can pitch a lot of games per season. Maybe it will ease the stress off the youngsters in the pen.

I don’t think they can steal Lee. Two steals from the Indians in two years? They are pretty much out of the chase. Unless they can pull off a comeback like in Major League, the Indians are cellar-dwelling.

I see a reliever coming to town though.

by Kenchanayoh on Jun 22, 2009 11:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree about getting a reliever

One bad thing about Valverde though is that he is a free agent after this year.

Also, just curious, but who are you referring to as a steal from the Indians? I thought we gave up too much for Casey last year.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 23, 2009 1:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t let Phil hear you say that we “stole” Casey Blake from the Indians last season ;-)

2009 LA Kings Hockey: thanks to Joe Sakic's snowblower, WE'RE BETTER THAN THE AV'S!!!!

by DodgerBlueBalls on Jun 23, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly. ;-)

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 23, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I seriously might consider Santana the one we lost

You never know what you get with minor leaguers. Meloan has not impressed me in his brief stint with the Dodgers, I think in 2007. Hard throwing. Strikes people out, but can’t get people out.

Carlos Santana, on the other hand, might have been great to hold on to for bigger fish. That guy could hit. Now if the Dodgers ever needed another catcher, they traded away their future on this one. But you can never tell. I might be totally right on the steal, or totally looking like an idiot, when someone finds this post on Google in 5 years, and Santana is a 30 hr 100 rbi guy.

by Kenchanayoh on Jun 23, 2009 2:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think most all Dodger fans think that Santana will be the best player in the deal

But I thought you meant that we had stolen Casey Blake.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 23, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

we'll see

hyped prospects rarely live up to expectations
if they did, they would be up to the big show by now
believe me, a team would make roster space for him

by Kenchanayoh on Jun 23, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not really

Prospects still need time to develop. Hitting prospects as good as Santana usually have some success in the majors.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 23, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

for a catcher anyways

a catcher that can hit is a luxury

there have been a lot of touted prospects in the Dodgers farm system, a lot of stars and a lot of head scratchers. The good: Piazza, Karros, Mondesi, Lo Duca. Some up and comers: Kemp, Loney, Martin. Some painful memories: Karim Garcia, Hee Seop Choi, and a ton of other guys whos names i cannot remember.

if you wanted to win now, you had to trade the prospect for their projected or potential value

all i know is that the trade is playing dividends for the Dodgers, and hopefully it can help out the Indians organization. at the moment, the Dodgers are getting a lot of help in the offensive department from Blake. that is really what they need to win in the next couple of seasons.

by Kenchanayoh on Jun 23, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah but

You can’t count Blake’s contributions this year as part of the trade because Blake was a free agent after the ’08 season. The Dodgers could have just held off on the trade and then signed him in the offseason.

And I disagree that the Dodgers had to trade Santana if they wanted to win now. Blake was hardly a godsend for the Dodgers last year.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 23, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps Blake would have had no interest in playing in LA season if he hadn’t already experience playing here the last two months of last season. Perhaps Ned wouldn’t have offered him that nice of a contract if he hadn’t had the day-to-day experience of seeing his great character (AKA makeup) and beard over those same two months.

by David Young on Jun 23, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps

We’ll never know. There was no reason they couldn’t have signed him though.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 23, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But good paycheck with a chance to win it all?

Perhaps baseball players arent so vocal about taking less money in exchange for a championship, but most players would probably resign with a contender, especially when they have a good experience. The Dodgers had no production from 3B for years. You had to do something!

by Kenchanayoh on Jun 23, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hee Seop Choi did not come up from the Dodger farm system. He was part of the Penny/LoDuca trade.

by David Young on Jun 23, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry about that

okay more failures:
Dennys Reyes, Wilton Guerrero, Chin Feng Chen, Angel Pena, Roger Cedeno

by Kenchanayoh on Jun 23, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't there a rumour last year about trading Scott Proctor for Brandon Inge?

Inge makes a ton of money, but look at his numbers this year. Oh, and he might have the best glove I have ever seen for a third baseman— now that trade would have worked.

Santana/Meloan for a few months of Blake. I was pretty outraged at the time of the trade and I always kind of liked Blake (probably because of the beard) but it was simply not a good trade. At the time, we had both Dewitt and LaRoche— it seemed like a very poor trade which makes me nervous about future Coletti trades.

by Michael White on Jun 23, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure we need to do anything unless we deal for an ace

and the only pitcher who might meet that criteria who would be available is Cliff Lee and I doubt he is even available. The Indians hold an option on him and they fully expect to contend next year. The Blue Jays have shown they can contend in the East and next year they get back McGowan and Marcum to make one more run before their window closes.

If that leaves us going after Washburn I say no, as I see no reason why we need a 5th starter with his limited upside when he won’t even be pitching in the playoff rotation and if he is then we would be in deep shit. What is the difference between Milton, Stults, McDonald and Washburn that would be significant enough to warrant a trade? He’s been good for two 1/2 months? Big deal, does that negate his recent history? Baseball HQ seems to think it might:

The talk during spring training and early season was of a new changeup that Washburn was using. These numbers at roughly the one-third pole of the season seem to bear out that the new pitch has been employed effectively; BPV especially is impressed. While not a trade target per se—his xERA shows that he’s still just a league-average SP, after all—it seems Washburn has evolved into the type of secondary player that won’t hurt as a throw-in from a larger deal. Looking at his recent history, others may doubt that he’s really improved. The 2009 YTD returns, though, indicate that Washburn may have more to offer than in previous seasons, and someone that could have a decent win potential on a better ballclub.

So as starters goes, that only leaves Ben Sheets and it is looking more and more that he will either be unable to help this year or will be signed by a Texas team.

The bullpen probably got a shot in the arm internally with McDonald joining the team and with Mota doing the job when asked. Ohman should be ready soon.

by meercatjohn on Jun 23, 2009 10:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I tend to agree with you. Any starter we get will take postseason starts from Kershaw, so there is no point to get pitchers who aren’t as good as him. For me, the list is short: Halladay, Oswalt, or Lee. Short of that, there’s not much need to make a deal.

by Eric Stephen on Jun 23, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think a reliever is the better bet

Bolstering the pen would not necessitate trading a starting pitcher. When it comes time for the playoffs, most teams go to the 3-man rotation and more quality-type starts of 5 to 6 innings. If that is what Torre is going to do, you would have Billingley, Kuroda, Wolf, and Kershaw might be the 4th starter in a 7-game series.

So why would we need to get Washburn? We already have 3 pretty consistent starters, and sometimes we get an awesome Kershaw, every other start. I don’t like Oswalt. Everytime I check up on that guy, he blows another game. I do have a love affair with Halladay and Cliff Lee.

by Kenchanayoh on Jun 23, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"When it comes time for the playoffs, most teams go to the 3-man rotation"

I don’t think that’s true—- though I don’t know how to look it up. I thought I read that most teams use 4 man rotations in the post-season, and for the few teams that do use a 3 man rotation, the results are not terribly desirable.

by Michael White on Jun 23, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 23, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not stating that it is an actually 3-man rotation

What I am saying is that you really only need 3 good starters for a playoff run. Some teams use the 4th starter as the “spot” starter. In that case, the Dodgers are already set with Kershaw as their 4th starter. It really depends on how many days rest, how deep into the playoffs the team, etc.

by Kenchanayoh on Jun 23, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

From a Mariners fan perspective

I have to say that getting DeWitt for Washburn would be a lot more than I ever would’ve expected coming into the year.

Paris Hilton, Burberry plaid, reality TV, mullets, Zima, Dubya, and the Sonics being sold to Oklahoma City. - Yahoo Answer results for "7 Signs of the Apocalypse"

by bluemax on Jun 23, 2009 1:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

And from a Dodgers fan perspective

I would be really upset if we made that deal, not that I would put it completely past Colletti from making the deal.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 23, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Realistically

I’m not expecting much back for Washburn except salary relief and a fringe prospect. If Coletti gives up more than that he probably deserves to be fired even if the Dodgers win it all.

Paris Hilton, Burberry plaid, reality TV, mullets, Zima, Dubya, and the Sonics being sold to Oklahoma City. - Yahoo Answer results for "7 Signs of the Apocalypse"

by bluemax on Jun 23, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That sounds pretty fair.

I’m not sure how much stock Colletti will put in Washburn’s numbers this year though. If he thinks that Washburn is really a changed pitcher, you could be getting a better haul than that.

by Brendan Scolari on Jun 23, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have high hopes for Dewitt

I want him included in a trade for a front of the rotation starter— not Washburn (whatever he is.) Otherwise, just keep Dewitt and see what happens. With him playing 2B now and Hudson on a tear- who knows if Hudson will be with the Dodgers next year. Plus, Hu is quickly falling out of favor with the organization— if Dewitt isn’t included in a trade for Lee/Oswalt/Halladay- certainly no sense in trading him otherwise.

by Michael White on Jun 23, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

I’m not that high on Washburn. I think his best years were with the Angels, and are definitely behind him.

If Dewitt goes, it should only be for a marquee player.

by Kenchanayoh on Jun 23, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

HERE'S A THOUGHT

Why not keep Pierre and maintain the 4 man rotation? 1 game off for Kemp, Manny, and Either. Pierre will get 3 games at least. That will keep them fresh until the playoffs.

Well, if Pierre didn’t make that much money, a lot of team would love having him. I think that contact hitters don’t get the credit they do. A lot of people covet power hitters, but guys like Pierre don’t get any loving. That is just how the sport is going these days.

by Kenchanayoh on Jun 23, 2009 5:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs