Pierre should still play when Manny gets back
Hey Fellow Fans,
I know many Dodger fans out there just want the ManRam back swinging the stick asap. However, I wonder how much thought is going into what will happen to Juan Pierre when Torre has to adjust the everyday line up to fit our prized slugger back into the mix. A tough call for any skipper when considering Juan's gutty performance since answering the call from Manny's departure. Not to mention his experience in the post-season, 2003 Championship ring with FLA and his dedication to the game. All of these facts are collectively overlooked on a consistent basis by most fans.
Yes, Pierre has slumped and been challenged by the coming of Manny and the break out of Kemp and Ethier. Ahh, let that last name referenced be the segway to my take if I'm Torre going into the 2nd half.
Ethier is a promising player no doubt. I just wonder if he is a long term fit for LA? He's a bit cocky relative to his track record thus far as a major leaguer. Complained a lot to get his starts, but granted has stepped up on par this season. I would not agree, however, that the Dodgers would be out of first place without him. He is young, inexperienced at this level and in my opinion does not bring the best attitude to the game on an everyday basis. With that said, he is a talented MLB player.
Pierre on the other hand provides the perfect combination for our beloved Dodgers in 2009. With Manny back in at the 3rd or 4th slot, it is crucial from my view to have Pierre, Furcal and Hudson ahead of him to work their way on steal bases, make pitchers nervous and mix it up inning in, and inning out. O Dog's measurable power is also worth mentioning as a 2B. Given that thought I think Manny fits nicely at the 4th hole. Followed by Loney, Kemp, Martin and Blake ( stack the the back half how you'd like-their all solid and Loney plays like a 10 year vet) we won't miss Eithier.
I will go as far to say that Eithier sets up as perfect trade bait. A contender needing lefty stick power to complement a RH slugger, in return for LA to bring the despartely needed started pitching for the 2nd half and play-offs. Without the pitching long term, another solid bat won't do much good if we can't contain the best of the best going into the stretch and October. I would look to the AL for some power arms that have experience managing heftier line-ups and someone with some play-off experience if possible. Just one more horse can get us there. Maybe a Garza from TB or a Vargas from Seattle ( I don't claim to know all the contractual limitations surrounding the semantics of player trades, but the idea is to get a feared #1 or #2 line-up addition).
As a confident fan my call would be to make a play for 2009 and a title. Keep your top Vets, and trade a little young talent to bring an arm to complete the package. Sitting Pierre to plug Manny back in and letting Eithier roam RF will not pay the dividends we could see if pitching comes and Eithier goes, and Pierre stays in the mix.
Think about the 2004 WS when Dave Roberts was the catalyst with the famous pinch run stolen base vs. NY? Pierre is that kind of clutch guy. Let him be an everyday player and help lead us to a Championship. A level he's been an integral part of reaching in the past. He's the guy you want in October with the winning run in scoring position and all you need is a slap base hit to get it done. The crowd roaring, season on the line, the utter need to focus on the situation and "the ball." Sit him and we're going to pay.
We need a mix of Vets and young horses like Kemp, Loney and Martin. But we need another legit arm more than having an extra young horse.
Lets see what the braintrust does after Manny slaps his last bomb for the Isotopes and is ready to lace it up again in Blue Town.
Sincerely,
No Red
0 recs |
26 comments
Comments
Pierre Over Ethier
Uh, no. In short, Pierre is terrible, Ethier is good, and we don’t need to make ANY trade for more pitching. We need more pitching like the Sahara Desert needs more sand.
by CanuckDodger on Jun 26, 2009 5:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice to see you around, Canuck. Your thoughts are always appreciated.
by Eric Stephen on Jun 26, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It really is this simple
Andre Ethier is, has been, and always will be a better player than Juan Pierre. It took by far the best month of Pierre’s career to bring him close to Ethier’s level.
Any type of objective review of our team will yield the conclusion that our best three OF are Manny, Kemp, and Ethier. Pierre is 4th. A distant fourth. Its not an indictment of Pierre’s character, but rather he is not as good as the other players at his position.
Think about the 2004 WS when Dave Roberts was the catalyst with the famous pinch run stolen base vs. NY? Pierre is that kind of clutch guy
This is a perfect reason to keep Pierre on the bench. The infamous Roberts steal came when he entered the game as a pinch-runner.
by Eric Stephen on Jun 26, 2009 5:49 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Its not that simple.
Eric, that is a ridiculous statement. Ethier overtook Pierre as a hitter last year during the season. To say he has always been a better hitter when Pierre was winning the world series and Ethier was in college is just silly.
That being said Pierre had the best month of his career after a long rest, hopefully that will work again, and it should be a great asset to be able to rest guys to keep them focused. There are three outfielders. Resting them once a week gives Pierre three starts a week. Seems like a pretty obvious solution to me.
by Dodger Dude on Jul 1, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good ...
point we seem to overlook Pierre’s history of success in this league. The guy’s a winner. But I don’t try and compare these two, two very different type’s of players. But Ethier does have some incredible upside…
by Pedro's curse on Jul 1, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Pierre’s history of success in this league. The guy’s a winner."
One postseason appearance before last season with one WS ring, six years ago.
Juan Pierre’s OBP (getting on is good, making outs is bad) 2005 to the present (pretty good sample size, 4.5 most recent seasons): .334, about the same as the NL as whole.
I’m happy to have him as a Dodgers backup OF.
by David Young on Jul 2, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. Ethier isn’t that young.
2. He’s not inexperienced.
3. I don’t recall any attitude problems.
Also, Joe Torre said explicitly that Juan Pierre will go back to the bench when Manny returns.
by pdotmac1 on Jun 26, 2009 6:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Ethier's 27, and in his 3rd year of MLB baseball.
Frankly, if Ethier’s ‘young’, then JP is ancient.
What Ethier really needs to do is retake a defense clinic since his fielding this year is shoddy.
But putting JP in center, Kemp in right, and Manny in left is just asking for trouble.
by Tripon on Jun 26, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
4th year
Ethier is even more experienced! :)
by Eric Stephen on Jun 26, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
…and that’s coming from someone who has bought a “beast mode” shirt and has happily joined the BEAST MODE bandwagon. Canuck, Eric, and Pdot state their cases well. I hope Tripon is right. I only wish his contract was much smaller because I would be more than happy to keep JP on the bench as we might have the most efficient 4 offensive outfielders in the league.
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
by BoulderDodger on Jun 26, 2009 6:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
About this being a joke post?
I think its 50/50. The overly sweet language in the entire post seems to me to be a giveaway.
Besides, for all of JP’s non trade value. Ethier’s value himself isn’t that high right now.
Ethier’s big slumps right now has to be hurting his value right now.
by Tripon on Jun 26, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah about it being a joke post
I hope andre can snap out of it because then we’d have a “good” problem in having too many starting outfielders…
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
by BoulderDodger on Jun 26, 2009 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did I say Ethier was slumping?
I MEAN HOLY SHIT 3 HOMERUNS IN ONE GAME
by Tripon on Jun 26, 2009 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely remarkable
talk about hitting them in bunches.
he is official out of his slump
just in time for manny
by Kenchanayoh on Jun 27, 2009 2:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like ur thinking boulderdodger
yea, we talk about having too much production and not enough positions/playing time for our guys! wow, we are a little spoiled this season. i’m pretty sure a lot of teams would love to pluck one of our guys away from us. i think having a deep team will make you a contender. only time will tell, if this 4 OF rotation will be a terror on opponents.
by Kenchanayoh on Jun 27, 2009 3:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pierre's contract is a moot point.
It’s a sunk cost at this point, we’ll never get any of that money back regardless of what we do with him. Just because he’s got a big contract does not mean that we are for some reason obligated to play him (other than the fact to save face and try to justify our extra large contract offer).
by Jesse Sparks on Jun 27, 2009 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
dave roberts came off the bench to steal the base and juan pierre can do the same
by matthewmafa on Jun 26, 2009 6:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ethier has two homeruns so far in this game against the Mariners.
by Tripon on Jun 26, 2009 9:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Haha i was in Mannywood
almost caughty the Blake homer, it flew 5 rows behind me
but since manny had to give back 7 mil, isn’t pierre kinda playing for free? haha at least manny’s contract paid for his salary.
anyways, i think pierre’s true worth is going to come in the playoffs, especially when someone in the outfield struggles, or if someone (cross fingers) goes down with an injury.
our pitching is good enough, especially milton is back, stults will be back, and kuo and schmidt might aid the bullpen as well. hopefully wade will be better once he comes back from the minors, i heard he was being sent down tonight. we dont need pedro, glavine, or any other SP. we might need to help out the bullpen.
i think this team is solid. when someone slumps, another person picks up the slack. therefore, the dodgers havent been swept or gone on a prolonged slump.
i’m telling everyone, pierre will show his worth when the time comes.
p.s. i wished he could play infield like chone figgins. maybe then we can sit furcal down! sorry raffy, but batting 230 isnt going to help us.
by Kenchanayoh on Jun 27, 2009 2:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because of the structure of Manny’s contract, the Dodgers only saved about $2.7 million this season for Manny’s suspension.
by Eric Stephen on Jun 27, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, "deferred". He will lose the extra 4.5 mil in the coming years
not too much of a hindrance, especially compared to the humongous paychecks they are still playing to jones and schmidt
by Kenchanayoh on Jun 28, 2009 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking ...
the same thing. If only Pierre were a multi-position player…. A Chone Figgins type no doubt/
Cuz Raffy has been killing us!
Last night was a nightmare of a game for him. Pierre put himself in scoring position three or 4 times late in the game…. Except for one sacrifice Raffy does nothing at that 2 spot to enhance the leadoff hitter.
I got sick watcing that.
by Pedro's curse on Jun 30, 2009 3:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A well ...
written piece NoRed, and I agree that we need that frontline #1-2 type pitcher to relly contend…. But giving up A.E might be too much….
How many years do the Dodgers got him for though? If he’s going to be a free agent anytime soon I would consider this move, but I think he’s locked in for a few…
by Pedro's curse on Jun 30, 2009 3:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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