Roy Halladay To The Dodgers: What Would You Do?
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 10:04 AM PDT
in News
320 comments
According to Ken Rosenthal of FoxSports.com, the Blue Jays are no longer asking for Chad Billingsley or Clayton Kershaw in a possible trade for Roy Halladay. However, the price in trade may still be steep: as many as five or six prospects:
The Jays, in need of a shortstop, surely would have interest in Ivan DeJesus Jr., who has been out the entire season with a broken right leg, or Devaris Gordon, a younger shortstop who is the son of reliever Tom Gordon.
Among the other Dodgers prospects who could interest the Jays: Outfielder Andrew Lambo, right-hander Josh Lindblom, third baseman Josh Bell and right-hander Chris Withrow.
I am excited about the replenishing of the Dodger farm system, and in particular Chris Withrow is a favorite of mine. That said, I would package our top prospects to get Halladay.
If the Dodgers stand pat, they still have an excellent chance to win it all this year. Their chances of making the playoffs, according to Baseball Prospectus, currently sit at 98.2%. Halladay is certainly no guarantee in the playoffs, but there's no doubt he is a big help.
Also, Halladay is not a rental. He is under contract for 2010. Thanks to the invaluable Cot's Baseball Contracts, we see that Halladay is set to be paid $14.25 million this year, and $15.75 million next year. Acquiring Halladay by tomorrow would mean he is due roughly $5.14 million for the remainder of this season.
The Dodgers are in a unique situation. Their team is pretty much set next year, outside of second base, assuming Manny Ramirez opts to stay for his $20 million 2010 salary. Manny had a tough time finding suitors before his PED suspension, and I doubt he would risk testing the market again. The Dodger payroll for 2009 is around $100 million right now, and possibly $110 million or so after incentives are reached. The 2010 payroll is estimated at $88 million, so adding Halladay would push that to about $104 million.
Because Halladay signed his contract extension before the new collective bargaining agreement was signed in 2006, he would have the right to demand a trade this offseason if he was traded during his multi-year contract. However, doing so binds him to a team for three seasons (they would just offer him arbitration for 2011 and 2012), so its unlikely Halladay will forgo the chance to become a free agent at 34, when he could get a bigger, longer contract, for the risk of becoming a free agent at 36. The fine folks at Brew Crew Ball, the SB Nation Brewers blog, explored this trade demand right in detail recently.
Acquiring Halladay makes the Dodgers clear favorites in the National League for 2009 and 2010, as well as a formidable foe for any American League club should they meet in the World Series. Giving up five prospects is steep, but are any of the current crop top notch prospects? Is there a Kershaw or Billingsley in the mix? Perhaps, but there is still risk before they play a major league game. Also, don't forget the benefit of gaining two draft picks when Halladay leaves after 2010.
Even if the farm system is gutted -- an assertion I don't agree with -- the core of the team is still in place until at least 2012, so there is still time to replenish yet again. To get a guy like Halladay, you have to pay a price. Think of the Dodgers' system: players like McDonald, Elbert, DeJesus, Gordon, Withrow, Bell, Lindblom, Lambo, etc. Pick your top five prospects. I would give them up for Halladay. Would you?
0 recs |
320 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Uh oh
Rosenthal has updated his blog. We are STILL after Halladay. Toronto wants 5 prospects OR Billingsley + smaller number of prospects.
So, you’re saying Riccardi voted “Yes” then? :)
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I can't believe any team
would have the nerve to even ask for Kershaw for anyone at this point. Do teams ask the Giants about Tim Linecum? So insulting.
Its probably just a cursory ask…you pretty much have to ask. 999 times out of 1,000 the answer will be no, but every once in awhile Jim Duquette picks up the phone :)
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Sweet baby Jeebus!
Eric, I opened up the homepage, read the Roy Halladay to the Dodgers headline, without seeing the question immediately following, and almost had a case of the vapors and hit the floor! Don’t underestimate the effect of those misleading headlines, Mr. Stephen :-)
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 10:24 AM PDT reply actions
I admit, the headline may have been a tad sensationalized :)
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m fairly certain my brain will be mush after the next 27 hours, but it will be worth it if we get Roy! :)
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I will especially like it if the Phillies getting Cliff Lee actually helps us in getting Halladay. That would be so great. :)
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
How about listing the prospects
each of us would offer for Halladay?
So we can all go back in a couple of years and either point at that and say “Hah hah!” or go “Good call!”
I would give up McDonald, Elbert, DeWitt, ONE of Withrow or Martin and somebody else not Josh Bell. I actually have a feeling the Dodgers are overrating Devaris Gordon so maybe him.
Now we can go back and laugh at me when Gordon becomes a Blue Jay All Star in 5 years.
by underdog on Jul 30, 2009 10:31 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I like this idea.
Just for the record, I would give up ANY six prospects for Doc, if need be. But I would imagine that is extreme.
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
My list
McDonald
E Martin
Gordon
Steve Johnson
Kyle Russell
by silverwidow on Jul 30, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
But Dashiell
the excersice is that Riccardi will pick the prospects. So you have to imagine losing the 5 best. In this case, you can’t say, “but you can’t have Bell.” If there’s any prospect you wouldn’t give up, the vote should be no.
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
this is a good point
so basically, we each pick our top 5…which for me is:
Elbert
Lambo
Bell
McDonald
Lindblom
yes, i’d still do it
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
although the Jays want an SS
so throw in Gordon or Dejesus for either Lindblom or Bell. still doing it
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
which is why
i’m on the fence about this idea the more I think about it. but one does have to just get over it sometimes, can’t be attached to every prospect because we can’t keep ’em all, and some of them are there as trade chips. i just hate losing players who turn into superb players like the year after we no longer have the acquired player under contract (ie, Halladay).
that's why
we give up guys we can “replace”
we’ve got tons of young, high ceiling pitching and won’t have to give it all up. Withrow, Martin, McDonald, Lindblom, Elbert, Evoldi, Johnson, etc. Plus we have DeJesus and Gordon at SS, Abreu, Bell and Dewitt at 2nd/3rd, etc. Which is why I’d like to keep Lambo over any of those guys. He’s the hardest to replace in the system
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Off subject
but does anyone think the Dodgers might be better off trying to acquire one more bench player? I feel like the bench is thin but maybe that’s not a big deal. Maybe Eye Chart will be back soon!
Maybe Alex Rios will help as Ethier’s platoon mate when he’s thrown into the Halladay deal :)
j/k
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
comment flagged for inappropriate content
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
I think they’re comfortable with the fact that Eye Chart returns soon. If they add another bench player, I feel it may be after the waiver-trade deadline (ala Marlon Anderson)
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Probably right
Plus maybe when 9/1 rolls around a few guys like XPaul might be back, Hoffmann might make an impression again, you never know who among the minor leaguers might make a case for a post-season bench spot. Personally I’d rather have Abreu up than Juan Castro, because at least as a hitter (PH and fill-in) Abreu can make a contribution.
by underdog on Jul 30, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think the september call ups will help
If we hold a decent lead in the west and clinch early…we can get guys like abreu and hoff some ABs and hopefully if one of them is hot, they can start taking some pinch hits away form Loretta and Slappy
O.A.
From Buster Olney
The Dodgers again reached out to Toronto on Wednesday, but the two teams have not gotten into the business of exchanging names, so it’s unclear whether they would have a match even if they did start talking. The Dodgers don’t have a big deal on the horizon, Dylan Hernandez writes. The Dodgers and Angels should make plays for Halladay, writes Bill Shaikin.
So Rosenthal is lying out of his ass again.
Putting a date to when Olney heard the news.
As of 9:30 a.m. ET Thursday, the Toronto Blue Jays had no active talks regarding Roy Halladay.
Rosenthal isn’t necessarily wrong since his news is more current than Olney. It is very likely both reporters are correct.
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I voted no
Here’s my reasoning. Halladay is an excellent pitcher. No question. But he’s just a pitcher (if that makes sense.) It’s not like Manny last year. It is entirely possible that Halladay pitches game 1 of the NLDS and throws 7 innings of shutout ball, gets pulled and the Dodgers lose 2-1. Dodgers then get swept and he’s pitched exactly 1 game. Now where does that leave us? A hitter plays every day. Pitchers play once every 4 or 5. Don’t like the idea of giving up the 5 best prospects for a guy who could realistically (just like CC Sabathia) pitch in all of 1 game in the post-season.
Now you say, but we’ll have him next year. Well, we’re almost positive we’ll have him next year. It might not be Halladay’s smartest move to demand a trade; but he could. If I understand it (and I’m not sure I do) we might as well treat the right to demand a trade as contract opt-out; though he certainly has less incentive to do so.
Fair points all.
I would also counter that while we could lose Game 1 of the NLDS, we are also more likely to win Games 2 & 3 with Bills & Kershaw moved down.
I do think Halladay would be here in 2010, but your concern is certainly valid.
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I fully admit I don't understand the "demand a trade" clause
And my ignorance makes me more hesitant.
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
That Brew Crew Ball link above is awesome and really informative.
It boils down to, yes Halladay can request a trade, but if the Dodgers trade him he is bound to his new team for 3 years. I believe he loses his no-trade rights in this case, so would he want to be stuck somewhere for 3 years he doesn’t want to be?
Also, he can get a 5- or 6-year contract or so at age 34.
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Then we could trade Doc for a 1st baseman.
Miggy for Doc – Tigers put Guillen back at 1st. Book it Dano
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
i think the key is
that game 3 would be started by Kershaw or Bills instead of Wolf or Kuroda. Certainly Wolf and Kuroda are able, but I’d rather throw out a 3 man rotation of Kershaw, Bills and Halladay then Kershaw, Bills, and Kuroda/Wolf
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I think, silverwidow, we might have to up it to get him -
I’d say we ought to try:
McDonald
Lambo
DeJesus
E. Martin
Eovaldi
According to BA, that’s our 1-3, 6, and 10. Would that not be enough?
Still, we can keep Gordon, Bell and Lindblom to replace the major holes free agency is bound to leave within 2-3 years.
I would prefer if Hu could be sent to them instead of DeJesus…
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
no way in hell
will they accept Hu. IT’s either Gordon or DeJesus
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Easy now, pilgrim
I’m certainly not suggesting that Hu be the Center Piece of any trade. But the Blue Jays have shown a recent history of preferring shortstops who can pick it with the glove, and not neccesarily with the bat (i.e. John McDonald)
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
well i know Ricardi can be dumb
but who in their right mind would take Hu over Gordon AND DeJesus? DeJesus is a good defender too (i think)
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
fair enough
As long as Coletti would hold onto either Gordon or DeJesus, I can dig it…
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
he should be able to
i doubt Toronto would want both…you get 5 top prospects and 2 play the same position? now THAT would be dumb :)
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
How dumb?
Dumb enough to pay Frank Thomas 9 million a season at age 36 & 37 dumb???
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I figured they'd want 2-3 good young pitchers so..
Would you be more inclined to give up Lindblom than Eovaldi?
Not really
Lindblom and Eovaldi are two of my favorites.
by silverwidow on Jul 30, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, I also would like to keep Lindblom,
As well as Gordon, and still thinking we need a highly-regarded pitcher (you know, outside the organization and its fans) that would mean Withrow, which I would still sub in for Eovaldi and trade with some restraint.
I can't trade Withrow
He’s my #1 favorite.
If the Jays want a young, high upside pitcher, I’ll give them Ethan Martin (who is still raw enough to be a gamble).
by silverwidow on Jul 30, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I voted no because of how the question was framed.
I would trade five or six prospects or ten for Halladay, but I would not trade him my five favorite prospects. Nor would I expect to because my favorite prospects are in A ball and Toronto cannot trade Halladay for a bunch of A ball prospects. Below is what I wrote when Canuck called us clueless for suggesting we trade our prospects for Halladay.
We have no upper level prospects who will become Kemp, Billingsley, or Kershaw. Most of these guys have limited ceilings. I’m only willing to deal these prospects because of their limited ceilings.
Elbert – has as much chance of being in a rotation as he does of being a closer. Best of our upper level pitching prospects.
McDonald – again, could be successful in a rotation but at the back end, or could also just end up a dominant setup man.
Josh Bell – switch hitter with power only from the left side, currently at 3rd, can he stay there?
Blake DeWitt – has shown the defense for 3rd, but other then last Sept has yet to show the bat for 3rd or even 2nd.
DeJesus – maybe the prize of the lot but even at that he’s a slash hitting, OB guy who may end up at 2nd instead of SS.
Lindblom – college relief pitcher, trying to be converted in a starter. For now has been moved back to the bullpen. Great power pitcher but is he a legitimate candidate for the rotation? and if so, does he project to be anymore then a 3/4?
Lambo – nice corner hitting outfielder with some power. Maybe a Jeremy Hermida type.
Tony Abreu – when healthy should be able to emulate the Orlando Hudson career. When healthy!
Steve Johnson – really coming on this year from being a guy not considered to have enough stuff to make a rotation to being someone who might be able to help in the back end of a rotation.
Schlichting, Garate, Sartor – solid relief pitchers
So that is nine of our upper level prospects with three relief pitchers to boot. If I’m Toronto I’m taking three of those guys and then asking for the real jewels down below in A ball. This is where I’d play hard ball. They can have 4 from the above list but only one from the below list of Martin, Eovaldi, Withrow, and Gordon. I particularly don’t want to part with Withrow. I’d urge them to take Gordon since he’s getting them the most buzz and would help him sell the deal to the fans.
If you look at what the Indians got for Cliff Lee a package of McDonald, Elbert, Josh Bell, Lindblom, and Dee Gordon should be enough.
i like that package
pretty much exactly what I proposed..just had Lambo in the deal over gordon. But the Jays do need a SS
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
New Rosenthal update.
Source: Dodgers offer could tempt Jays — 1:52 p.m.
One source with knowledge of the Blue Jays’ thinking predicted that the Dodgers could “catch their attention” with an offer that included third baseman Josh Bell, shortstop Devaris Gordon and hard-throwing pitching prospects from among the group of Josh Lindblom, Ethan Martin and Nathan Eovaldi.
Bell, 22, and Gordon, 21, are considered premium everyday players — at positions where the Blue Jays don’t have clear starters for the future.
Justin Jackson, Toronto’s No. 4 prospect entering the season according to Baseball America, may not be the future everyday shortstop that he once appeared to be. He is hitting .213 with no home runs in 78 games at high Class A Dunedin and is currently on the disabled list.
While the Dodgers would hate to part with Bell or Gordon, they have depth at both positions: Blake DeWitt, who has already played in the majors, and Pedro Baez, who appeared in this year’s Futures Game, at third; and Ivan DeJesus Jr. at shortstop.
i would do that deal
honestly, on both sides i think that works
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Smarter move by the BlueJays
trying to get two of our high ceiling A ball guys but can Toronto sell that to the fans?
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I would try and shift off Bell and Gordon towards Lambo and DeJesus
Since the Jays do not have more than two solid OF prospects, that could really help the deal.
Maybe try and get Lindblom away too, toss in McDonald, though his stock can’t be too high after his performance this season.
I still might take that deal though.
i wouldnt trade eovaldi, withrow, or martin
these 3 have ceilings of number 1 starters….. if we keep them till next year when they put up the big numbers and finally show they are future number 1s, we can make them a center peice not just a Package.
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
but what if they flame out?
and then they’re nobodies in the low minors. Sometimes a GM has to take a chance, and to get 1 1/2 years of Halladay for some A ball pitchers – however good they may be – is worth that risk to me
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
ok but what if they dont flame out... then you got some big time players for the future or for a trade
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah
and if we make this trade, we have the best pitcher in baseball ALONG with Bills and Kershaw. That’s the best 1-2-3 in baseball for 2 years
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
and if you take that stance
then you’ll never trade a prospect for anyone. And prospects don’t have a great success rate from A ball
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
But there is of course risk there, and will there be someone as good as Halladay available next year? I doubt it.
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
no way
because there are 2 pitchers in the league as good as Halladay: Lincecum and Haren
and we’re not getting either
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
well matt cain has the best ERA right now in the NL
who knew?
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
true
and we’re also not getting him :)
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Gotta love this part of the quote
Bell, 22, and Gordon, 21, are considered premium everyday players — at positions where the Blue Jays don’t have clear starters for the future.
Nice for Bell to be making inroads are the very possible time we need him.
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
IIRC, he has at the major league level.S
So, I’m going to say yes he can.
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Halladay contract
Sorry I have no link, but I believe that Halladay may be able to void his contract for next year due to his being a veteran traded mid season and his contract is before a 2006 deadline in the latest collective bargaining agreement. You should make certain that Halladay is contractually committed for 2010.
by kimo from kauai on Jul 30, 2009 11:06 AM PDT reply actions
If Halladay demands a trade
I believe he’s stuck with the new team for a while. Don’t know the exact details.
by silverwidow on Jul 30, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I addressed that above, including a link to Brew Crew Ball with more in-depth analysis of that clause.
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Ahhh. See if you didn’t have the sensationalized headline here, I would have read the whole article before commenting. Sorry about missing that, Eric
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I have heard the same thing Kimo. Would anyone know where we could check this? I believe it has something to do with his service to only one team for 10 years or more…
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
BA TOP 50
IS ALL BULLSHIT…no dodgers prospects are over on it and if they are its because they were drafted in the first round… just cause we dont got any BA TOP 50 doesnt mean shit… we still got prospects that are talented as those freaking top 50
I've seen your comments on your site
regarding Billingsley and Kershaw for Doc. If you have made a post about prospects maybe you can provide a link since we don’t expect you to rewrite what you have written.
I also voted no, but I gave my reasons above, mainly because I don’t expect to have to give up my five favorite prospects.
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
lol @ Lee commanding a shitfest package
and the Dodgers have to give up every relevant upside player for halladay
by kensai on Jul 30, 2009 11:14 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
seriously
they ave up a future backup catcher, back of the rotation starter, a UTILITY man, and a 18 year old pitcher with arm trouble
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
not only that
but they got Francisco as well
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
seriously
he’d be the best bench player on our team right now
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
1:14pm: Yahoo’s Tim Brown sees the Dodgers and Red Sox as the frontrunners for Doc in what is shaping up as a two-team race. Brown says the only Major Leaguer in the Dodgers’ offer is James McDonald, while the Sox will part with Clay Buchholz, one of Justin Masterson, Michael Bowden, and Lars Anderson, and some lesser prospects.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-halladayupdate073009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
they have to report something
or else theyll get fired
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
In that case. Advantage Dodgers
The Blue Jays are operating under the logic that they want to charge division teams a premium which I don’t agree with.
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
The Dodgers’ offer is believed to be all minor league prospects except right-handed pitcher James McDonald
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-halladayupdate073009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
I'm sure he is
They haven’t even announced if he’s coming up to the club yet, we’ve just assumed he is.
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Abreu/Hu have no value
I can’t see a team wanting them as anything more than a throw-in
DeWitt probably still has decent value
That’s kind of what I was advocating in an earlier comment. Toronto loves their defensive short stops. However, bucknell brought a great point in that why would the Jays settle for Hu as a throw in when there is both Gordon and DeJesus Jr. in our system.
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I would do it if they would demand like
McDonald, Elbert, DeWitt, DeJesus, and a high upside prospect.
Would rather not give up most every high upside prospect in the system at one time for a guy who improves the Dodgers chances 3-5% this year. :o
yeah thats what i was thinkg
we need to keep some of the high upside players
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
none of these guys have high value right now though
mcdonald has been bad as a sstarter and been scuffling as of late
Elbert has been yo yo d around and not got full time anywhere
Dewitt the same
and dejesus his injured…. dont you think toronto would not accept this.. had mcdonald and elbert been in AAA dominating like they would and same with dewitt they would have way more value then they do now
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
McDonald and Elbert have value
Just because guys don’t blow batters away at age 25 doesn’t mean people don’t look at their stuff and realize they can play.
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
they would have more value if they were
dominating AAA
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
5 guys I like alot but would give up for Doc
Blake DeWitt—big league exper to sooth the toronto fans, I think he could be a respectable 2nd baseman
Steve Johnson-will be a mlb starting pitcher by mid 2010
Josh Bell-could DH in the AL
Eovaldi-talented but a couple years away
McDonald-more big league exper for jay fans, shown he can get out big league hitters
Do you think the Cliff Lee trade made JP consider the alternative of not having Kershaw/Bills included?
He didn’t sound like it was an option before.
What the hell?
I hope that’s a negotiating tactic that the Dodgers will cave on and the end of the negotiations.
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
hopefully the dodgers are doing this to make him seeem sooooo good
then just say ok you can have him and make him look like such a great player you know what i mean
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Nothing to see here!
Source: All is quiet on Halladay front — 2:07 p.m.
Just 26 hours before the non-waiver deadline, all is “very quiet” on the Roy Halladay front, according to a major-league source.
The Dodgers, Angels, Rangers, Rays and Red Sox are among the teams still interested in Halladay, sources say.
But those who know Blue Jays G.M. J.P. Ricciardi continue to insist that he will not trade Halladay unless he gets the right deal.
“If it’s not right, it’s not going to happen, no way,” one friend of Ricciardi’s says.
well hell
no kershaw or bills appearing in new trade discussions
id go with halladay for just a few prospects…
We only have a few prospects that I even value that much
so I would be down to trade 5 of them for Halladay.
o rly?
did Bill Plaschke commandeer your keyboard?
by Seanny Rotten on Jul 30, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I really hope there is some crazy Dee Gordon hype out there
so we can trade him.
by trainwreck84 on Jul 30, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
with manny last year
the dodgers lost 8 straight and 11 out of 13 at one point. But right after loosing 8 straight, we went on to win 8 straight.
i dont think they want dewitt and bell
so i would replace dewitt there with a pitching prospect or possibly Lambo.
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Good call
Lambo makes more sense now that I think about it. I through in DeWitt because he could start today while Bell is still developing.
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
hopefully this trade is rumored
on more than just fox sports
if multuple sources are talking about it
it increases our chances of getting halladay…
I hope that all those people voting to trade the TOP 5 prospects...
…never get to be GMs for the Dodgers! You would let the Blue Jays raid your entire farm system, essentially for 3 or 4 post season starts?! Think about that for a minute- did the Phillies do anything even CLOSE to that for Cliff Lee?! No way- and neither should the Dodgers. Yes, the Indians set the bar too low, and yes, Lee is not as good as Halladay. But you are taking it waaaaaaay to the other extreme. Just imagine in 2005 if the Dodgers had traded Matt Kemp, Russell Martin, Andy LaRoche, Johnathan Broxton, and James Loney for a year and a half of…say, Chris Carpenter, because that’s what you’re agreeing to now! Think about it. I can see 3 or MAYBE 4 prospects, but the Dodgers would STILL need to protect at LEAST 2 of them. Maybe throw in Juan Pierre, and offer to pay his salary. But to mortgage our entire future for a year and a half of a single pitcher, albeit a great one (and one who’s already missed considerable time, FYI) is extremely near-term thinking, to say the least…
None of our current prospects are as highly-rated as that group. That’s a big distinction.
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
actually in 2005
our top 5 prospects were LaRoche, Guzman, Martin, Broxton, and Elbert. i’m not counting Bills because his upside was higher than anyone on our current list, especially those about to break into the majors. You can’t take the 5 guys that turned out the best and call them our 5 best prospects back then. Kemp was nowhere near the top 5. Which is why prospect rankings aren’t that reliable
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Well of the 5 you listed
theres 2 starters on the current team (martin, broxton) one was traded for Manny Ramirez and the other could be in the starting rotation as soon as tomorrow. Plus Billingsley was the #1 prospect.
Only 1 bust of those 6.
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Billingsley was way ahead of any of our current prospects
Martin also doesn’t have a match in this crop. Broxton is the only one i’d regret getting rid of…but back in 2005 we didn’t have a great shot at the WS and the best team in baseball
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
sorry - didn't make this clear
I’d regret giving up Martin, but he has no equal in our current prospect group because of his valuable position
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
fair enough, but still...
…I think to give up five top rated prospects without having ANY say in which ones we keep is a huge mistake. As much as I hate to lose him, I think people underestimate how much the Blue Jays would love to have Juan Pierre in their outfield, so long as we pick up the tab. We’re so used to Kemp, Ethier, and Manny that we forget how lousy some teams’ outfields. I looked at the Blue Jays stats, and they are DEFINITELY one of those teams. JP would be a huge upgrade. So, how ’bout him and 3 prospects, with protection of our 2 best?
are you surprised?
Come on- once Manny tested positive THIS year, it was really naive if anyone thinks he JUST started using AFTER the drug enforcement policies. They just need to release the whole damn list already, and stop cherry-picking…
what should have happened is
that the tests should have been anonymous as the players were told, then after the analysis of players using was done the results destroyed. Instead of left around for a publicity seeking SF US Attorney with a boner for athletes to “seize” and run amuck with. the leak is from “lawyers” familiar with the results, well that is 99.9% sure to be lawyers from the gov not from the players union.
by MammothDodger on Jul 30, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
You are right
they should have been destroyed.
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
you have a point, but...
…since it’s already been leaked to destroy a few reputations, you mine as well just “leak” the whole thing, if you have to. It’s only fair.
I hate the steroids thing as much as anyone, but people who would judge baseball on that and that alone certainly haven’t been paying attention THIS year.
I agree
now that the assholes (uptight rightous US Att.) have leeked some it should all be released, but that would have to come from the players union and I do not see them doing it, so instead it will be leaked in a sensational way by publicity seekers
by MammothDodger on Jul 30, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Negatively
there’s only so many prospects to go around.
Unless we just gave up Schlicthing or someone like that for Sherril.
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
depends though
if it’s Dewitt and someone like Johnson, those aren’t guys in the potential Halladay trade
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Garate and Leach
with a Van Slyke type thrown in. If they touch anyone in our top 10 I will be shocked and unhappy
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Steve Johnson Is From Maryland...
and he pitched a great game in Double A the other day. If the Orioles had scouts watching…
I wouldn't even trade Steve Johnson for Sherrill
but then I don’t think we need him.
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
i would
Sherrill is a great pitcher, and let’s face it, our bullpen could use another arm. I’m not saying our pen is bad; it’s actually really good. But a pen of Brox, Tron, Beli, Kuo, Mota, Sherrill, and Wade/JMac is un. hittable.
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Define great?
he’s been a good setup man in the past and a decent but not great closer. When we have a complete bullpen what would his role be?
Mota, Beliario, Kuo, Troncoso, Broxton are the main five. Sherrill replaces Leach which is an improvment but Leach rarely pitches in high leverage situations.
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
numbers this year
2.40 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 3/1 K/BB, 191 ERA+. also in the best hitting division in baseball
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Is that really better
than Troncoso/Belisario/Kuo (?)/Broxton/Mota (gasp) have been though? Not really.
it's more depth
which is key down the stretch. Which is why I still say it depends on the cost.
and c’mon, Torre uses his bullpen like there’s no tomorrow. Everyone here would like another reliable arm
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
exactly
how many do? Having the best bullpen in baseball – AND the deepest – is nothing to laugh at. It’d be a huge help
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
so would having 3 more
elite relievers, but what’s the point, really?
It’s a waste, like overpaying for 4 aces :o
I don't define that as great when someone throws one inning a game. It is good not great.
This is good but as you can see most of those who were good last year have struggled this year.
http://www.bb-ref.com/play-index/shareit/GMn6
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
ok fair enough
i meant he’s a great reliever, because i think he’s a top 10 closer in the game right now
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
You also have to think about marginal value.
I’d take a solid bat off the bench vs. adding Sherrill.
definitely comes down to what cost
but he’s a very, very good pitcher pitching on a bad team with no publicity.
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Is he striclty insurance for Kuo?
Might be a high price to pay for the insurance. I like Sherrill just don’t think we need him. And as Eric said above, he’s not going to be cheap after arbitration.
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
i think
he could be the 2nd best pitcher in the pen behind broxton (maybe 3rd behind Kuo when healthy). obviously tron, beli, mota, kuo are very good. but i’ve watched this guy pitch quite a bit and he is really good
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
if we traded josh bell OR Elbert for sherrill
we Got robbed….. it better be Dewitt for Sherrill and NOthing eLSE or im going to be pissed
at least we would not have to complain about Carlos Santana
for a little while
by trainwreck84 on Jul 30, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
to complain about Carlos Santana
Take a drink!!!
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
DeWitt would also be robbery
just because he hasn’t delivered while being yanked up and down this year should not remove what he did for us in a lot of Sept at bats.
We know he’s got a great glove at 3rd base and even when he was hitting like shit at 3rd his glove kept his value up.
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Pedro Baez
they wanted a 3rd basemen. HOPEFULLY.. HOPEFULLY its pedro baez
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
hahaha
out of everyone in our farm him… were they forced to pick him or something cause he aint good
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe we bribed BA
so that we could then tout him as a futures all-star.
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
George Sherrill is a Bipolar Reliever
One year he has a great year.. the next year he is absolutly HORRIBLE then he has another great year then hes horrible again
yup
2006 2008 he wasnt very good ERA wise…. 2007 2009 he is good
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah
and we’d have him this year…when he’s been awesome
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
and we would have hom for next year
plus hes a TYPE A or B free Agent which means we will get compensation
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Mariners asked for Joba chamberlain or Phil Hughes
FOR JARROD WASHBURN what a joke
Big ol’ stinking bucket of FAIL
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Rejected This
2:23pm: Morosi says Halladay is looking unlikely for the Angels, who shot down a Toronto proposal that included Joe Saunders, Erick Aybar, and Brandon Wood.
The Halos are also looking for bullpen help, with names such as Heath Bell and George Sherrill in play (their offer for Mike Wuertz fell short).
I'd have done that
they must be really worried that Figgins will be gone.
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Angels will have an interesting winter
with Lackey/Figgins/Vlady
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
we should sign Lackey
he wouldnt cost us Top prospects and would dominate in the NL
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Anaheim Lover
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
True - big Angel fan but I wouldn't mind a good one coming up the freeway
I think the last one was Andy Messersmith and that worked out well until he decided to create this whole free agency thing.
by meercatjohn on Jul 30, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
fail.
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 30, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
sherills curveball
is like Claytons curve but even bigger
from 2006 to 2008
sherrills first half ERA is 3.06 ….. .189 BAA
His second half ERA is 5.29 …. .250 BAA
oh shit...
2:40pm: Yahoo’s Gordon Edes says the Orioles are “on the verge of trading Sherrill to the Dodgers for Scott Elbert and Josh Bell.”
fuck u ned
did we have to go on a 4 game loosing streak right before the trading deadline
ELBERT WAS OUR TOP PROSPECT
BELL WAS MOVING UP TO NUMBER 2 AFTER HIS HOT HITTING
FUCK YOU NEED COLLETTI… YOU COULD HAVE TRADED THESE TWO FOR ROY HALLADAY> INSTEAD YOU TRADE HIM FOR A MIDDLING RELIEVER
ITS THE REVERSE OF THE PEDRO MARTINEZ TRADE
well that's better...
still not good, but better
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Gurnick says it was Bell+Johnson
NOT Elbert
THATS EVEN WORSE
a 21 year old PITCHING PROSPECT DOMINATING AA who is from BALITOMORE
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
How the fuck
Is a not-number-one-prospect better than a number one prospect? Calm down, punch a bag, and then come back to commenting.
by Jacob Burch on Jul 30, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
because johnson has a better chance at starting in the bigs
then elbert the FUTURE RELIEVER!
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah it's bad
but not as bad as Elbert
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
i dont give a freak about the pitchers being TRADED
JOSH BELLLLLLLL!!!!!!!?????????? this guy is GREATTTTTTTTTTTT we could have had roy halladay for him FUCKING BULL
Are you in the Trading negotiations with Toronto?
You have no idea what they’re asking for, and it’s futile to pretend you do.
by Jacob Burch on Jul 30, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
no
2 AA prospects that are doing great at AA for Reliever Depth.
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Still not happy about losing Bell since I would have been reticent about even
trading Johnson straight up for him.
Still we did bolster our bullpen. Time will tell if we needed to. This reminds me of the Lugo trade where kent was hurting and we got Lugo but then found out we didn’t need him.
OK, Bell and Elbert for Sherrill is awful
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 12:48 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
But it's actually Bell and Steven Johnson
by silverwidow on Jul 30, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
the problems of going to lunch and commenting from the non-auto-refreshing iPhone! :)
by Eric Stephen on Jul 30, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
why does NED
trade Prospects when they are not at their highest point.. Johnson has a chance to become a much bigger trading chip then a THROW IN
there is absoultely no way to know
where Johnson is in a year. This may be his highest point. Same with Bell. I’m not advocating the trade but calm down man…
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
it's terrible regardless
2 talented minor leaguers who are having great seasons for a setup man…maybe
how am i not calm?
did i scream or something
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
well when half of your comments are in all caps...
and you repeat the same thing over and over again, it gives the impression that you’re freaking out. sorry if i misunderstood but that’s just my impression
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
but the last comment wasnt in caps
just the one part that i want everone to see
by matthewmafa on Jul 30, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah i know
but repeating the same one point over and over just gives that feeling. It’s fine though i’m a little upset too lol
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
But the dodgers do get compensation because he is a Type A
not this year but next right?
Won't that depend on his performance during his contract year?
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
also yeah...
lol but he should stay Type A i’d think
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
wouldnt u guys think that ned could have traded these two prospects
for a Much much better reliever?
like who??
this is the best reliever on the market…
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
honestly though
we have absolutely no idea what toronto wanted for Doc. We can speculate all we want and assume whatever we want but we have no clue if we could’ve made that trade at all
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly,
it’s more that this takes away from us getting Doc that eats at me.
At least this means my 3 favorite dodger pitching prospects
will stay in Dodger Blue for at least another year
Eovaldi, Ethan Martin, and Chris Withrow
The pen does need help.
By all accounts, sherrill is – was, the best reliever available. Without pitching help, this team won’t win it all. Still need Halladay to put the blue crew over the top this year.
If Sherril is indeed a Type A free agent at the end of 2010 and we offer and he declines arbitration then this trade looks Ok.
vr, Xei
But that was the ace in the hole with Lowe too
but you know how this works out. Next thing you know these guys go to teams which already signed a higher ranking Type A or they have a protected pick, etc.
Halladay works nicer, because he would almost certainly be the highest ranked Type A. Sherill though?
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Right, it’s too hard to handicap this trade right now. Only time will tell. Could be anywhere in the spectrum from slight “win” for us to moderate “loss” for us. On a 1 to 100 scale, 100 being the best trade possible, I’d say the range is anywhere from 30 to 60.
vr, Xei
i'd agree with that
i think it could potentially be a bigger win, but no more than around a 70
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Trades are evaluated
both by methodology and results, IMO.
For what they are today, i’d say it’s a bad trade regardless of what happens long-term.
Basically disagree with your entire post
other than that Sherrill was the best reliever available.
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
ok hypothetical question here
what if we now get Halladay for a package like DeJesus, Lambo, Elbert, McDonald, and Baez/Dewitt. So overall we gain Sherrill and Halladay for Bell, Johnson, and the 5 guys above. I think overall, if that happens, it would be a good trade deadline
they want major league ready pitchers
which is why i threw in Elbert and McDonald. Lindblom is more likely than those three in my opinion
by bucknellbruin on Jul 30, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Lefties do have an OPS+ of 3 against Sherril
that’s pretty damn sweet.
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
some of you need to relax just a LITTLE bit here
The reaction from some people about trading 1 very good prospect and 1 decent one has been breathtaking, especially considering that people here were willing to gut the farm system for Roy Halladay! Guess what? The Dodgers have 4 very capable starters, and a VERY shaky bullpen from the southpaw side. On Dodger talk, they gave Brent Leach player of the game for doing so horribly the other day, just because it served as a reminder of how much the Dodgers need a left-handed relief pitcher. Do you really think the Orioles weren’t going to make it hurt a LITTLE to get their closer? This MAY turn out to backfire on the Dodgers later- that’s the risk with these types of trades. But there’s no way of knowing that now, and all things considered, I don’t think this is bad at all.
Bottom line- the idea that all of our prospects are made of platinum unless it’s The One (aka Roy Halladay) in which case they are nothing but trade bait seems a bit contradictory, don’t you think?
reply to the subject
I wouldnt trade Billingsly or Kershaw because we will need them in the playoffs. If we could get Halliday without trading those two it would be worth it because we have a great shot at the world series this year with our offense the way it is and our coaching staff is 2nd to none, our biggest problem is our pitching staff
I wouln't trade Billingsley or Kershaw because that's the Dodgers present and future!
so many people keep thinking short term. There’s more to all this than just what happens in ONE post season….
Trading for Sherrill
If you can have 2 closers in your bullpen it makes your team a lot better. I think if the mets didnt have alot of injuries they would be just like us and they have 3 closers. So I give Colletti a thumbs up for this deal
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on True Blue LA
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
NL West Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
San Diego
|
79 | 59 | .572 | 0 | Won 3 |
|
San Francisco
|
78 | 62 | .557 | 2 | Lost 1 |
|
Colorado
|
75 | 64 | .539 | 4.5 | Won 6 |
|
Los Angeles
|
69 | 71 | .492 | 11 | Lost 5 |
|
Arizona
|
57 | 83 | .407 | 23 | Won 1 |
(updated 9.8.2010 at 10:10 PM PDT)
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Create-a-Caption: Dusty Baker wants YOU to buy playoff tickets
- Padres' Heath Bell wistful about Trevor Hoffman's 600th save
- Want your first career home run? Face a pitcher from Chicago
- Slumpbot .200: Phil Hughes runs into New York's Joba Rules
- Grandstand Gems: A trio of fans got defensive on Tuesday night
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
