Pierre in Right?

by SeattleDodger on Jul 9, 2009 3:54 AM PDT Comment 17 comments

I like Andre and his future just as much as the next guy. And his walk-offs the last 12 months have been fantastic. But he is batting .247 and according to ESPN last night is amoung the top of batters hitting into double plays. At what point does it make sense to start Pierre in right? I really think its something that Torre should be considering. Is he? What are your thoughts on benching Andre for a while?

Jeff

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Really?

I have been reading TrueBlue daily for a while now, and my second post ever is again inspired by Juan Pierre.

No way on god’s green earth should JP ever be in our starting line up as long as ManRam, Bison and AE are healthy, espeically in RF. Why are you making this evaluation based on batting average alone? By any other measure, Ethier is the far superior player, even when accounting for GIDP.

Using OPS for the sake of simplicity, Ethier checks in at .805 this year compared to .804 for JP. However, JP is being supported by an unsustainable .354 BABIP while Ethier is being dragged down at .261. So even with a massive amount of luck on his side, JP is still not the player Ethier is.

Further more, AE should bounce back going forward so there is a bit of upside to his projection. JP is completely maxed out and last time I checked he turned back into a pumpkin about a month ago, with a triple slash line f .274/.324/.337 and a .286 BABIP. For the curious, Ethier is at .196/.275/.464 with a .176 BABIP.

Going back a few years:
2008 2007
Ethier .885 .802
JP .655 .685

Those numbers for JP are downright putrid, and OBA does not factor in fielding. AE is not a gold glover to be sure, but JP in right would be an absolute disaster with his noodle arm. Opposing hitters would be turning singles into doubles at will.

JP is a great 4th outfielder but his days as a starter are thankfully over. Trader Ned should have flipped him to the White Sox for magic beans when he had the chance.

by ladogger on Jul 9, 2009 6:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Not talking history. Talking this year.

Thanks for the reply ladogger,

You definately have the historical stats for your argument – none of which I disagree with. But I dont care about 2008, 2007 or anything else before this year. It is about right now.

I doubt you used Andruw Jone’s historical stats last year to recommend keeping him on the field.

Pierre is playing way better than Andre. And how many of JP’s stolen bases have lead to runs?
I think JP’s BA and Steals outwiegh Andre’s power and arm.

Jeff

PS – a lot of you, like a co-worker of mine, really have some pent of anger on JP from previous years. Let it go. He is a HUGE part of our 2009 success.

by SeattleDodger on Jul 9, 2009 6:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ladogger was not talking about history. He is basically saying that Andre is hitting into bad luck. Considering his past production his low BABIP indicates that he is bound to improve this year. JP on the other hand is the complete opposite. He played way over his head for a month but starting in June he started to come down to earth.

“And how many of JP’s stolen bases have lead to runs?”

I don’t know. If you do, feel free to make that argument. I know there are studies that say if a runner is not succesful at least 75% of the time it actually costs the team runs. Currently JP is at 74.1%, so an argument could be made that his stolen base attempts have actually cost the Dodgers runs this year.

As for playing JP in right. That makes zero sense. The Dodgers realized that Pierre’s arm was unable to adequately play CF in previous years, so the idea of moving him to RF would not be wise. If you wanted to argue Pierre should play instead of Ethier, you would have to have Pierre play CF and Kemp move to right. The obvious problem with this is that you are removing the best (according to UZR) CF in the NL to RF and replacing him with a guy who was deemed inadquate to play CF two years ago. Also, not too wise.

by mwhite06 on Jul 9, 2009 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pierre cannot play RF

that’s like having James Loney play SS. LF yes. CF maybe. RF nope. Think arm.
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Jul 9, 2009 8:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If you want to stay with current events

then look at what Juan Pierre did in June after his incredible May
.264 .319 .309 .628
That is just a few points below what he’s done historically as a Dodger. Not to mention Juan can’t play RF. No player has ever played RF with an arm like Pierre’s in my memory as a Dodger.

Now if you want to move Blake to RF against LHP and put Loretta at 3rd, I’d listen. Andre has pretty much been an automatic out against LHP this year.
187 .272 .385 .656

and his career split is nothing to get excited about.
260 .321 .398 .719

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jul 9, 2009 9:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Juan is not really a right fielder

by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 9, 2009 9:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

At what point does it make sense to start Pierre in right?

When the Pierres have their family reunion softball game.

by Eric Stephen on Jul 9, 2009 9:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well done

by mwhite06 on Jul 9, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by Xeifrank on Jul 9, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The real question to me

is at what point does it make sense for the Dodgers to find a right hand hitting right fielder who can mash LHP? Scott Hairston would have been a perfect fit. For all the wierdness of James Loney he has a slug% of almost .500 against LHP this year. Which just shows how bad he’s actually been against RHP.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jul 9, 2009 10:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I wonder if Andruw Jones is available.

{Ducks}

by mwhite06 on Jul 9, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, you convinced me

Didnt realize how bad his arm is. Good to know.

Thanks for the comments.

Jeff

by SeattleDodger on Jul 9, 2009 10:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Jon SooHoo of the Dodgers captured Pierre’s perfect spot:

by Eric Stephen on Jul 9, 2009 3:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Pierre in right?

Andre has the best arm on the team and Juan the weakest arm. You want him in right field? Besides how many rbi’s does Juan have? It’s a no- brainer. Andre’s bat will be back. We need his HR power. Juan has no chance of hitting a homer.

by Budmansilva on Jul 9, 2009 9:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Kemp has the best arm actually.

by Tripon on Jul 9, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

andre

welp, since i tease my hubby all the time that eithier is “my boy” I have to give my (non)expert opinion…. do you go with the guy in right who can catch and thro, and has an erratic at-bat (but when he’s on, he’s ON) or go with the nice guy who subd nicely for manny but cant compete with his bat at all… he’s better than manny at his position it seems, or at least as good, but cant hit near as well… he’s not as good as andre at his position and can sometimes hit better… thats why they pay coaches big $ to make those decisions, right?

by BernadetteP on Jul 10, 2009 11:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I Like J.P and have been a big proponent regarding his game ... but

Either must be given a full year. His upside is explosive, and now, hitting in
front of Manny he should see better pitches. But having said that I wouldn’t be against
giving Pierre more opportunites, though Kemp would have to move over to Right.

by Pedro's curse on Jul 10, 2009 5:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs