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Around SBN: 2011 In Extreme Home Runs

Andruw Jones - Dodger Hero?

 

I've been on the wrong side of some arguments here and on Dodger Thoughts over the past few years but nothing has been as embarrassing for me as a writer for a blog about the Dodgers then my complete support for the signing of Andruw Jones in 2008, and my unflagging opinion that he was not done as a ballplayer while he struggled all year.

Star-divide

Unable to find any historical comp for what occurred to Jones in 2008 I kept insisting that he was not done and could still be a productive player. While this hasn't been discussed much here on True Blue it was a constant theme at the DT blog, with D4P and Rob McMillin (writer of 6-4-2) taking complete credit for saying the Jones signing was a bad move from day one. They mostly cited his 2007 performance as the reason while I felt that the 2007 was simply an aberration.  Rob has such disdain for Andruw Jones, he has paid Baseball Reference the right to sponsor the Andruw Jones page just so he can make fun of him.

Without question Andruw Jones was a complete and utter failure in 2008 as a ballplayer. He was also without question the biggest reason the Dodgers were the most exciting team in baseball last Sept. When the season started the outfield was Jones in CF, Andre in RF, with Kemp sharing time with Juan Pierre. That might have been the story for the whole season if Jones had not been so bad that Matt Kemp eventually replaced him in CF and Juan Pierre became the everyday LF. From that point on Matt Kemp proved he could play CF with the big boys and Juan Pierre proved he wasn't much of an offensive force for a left fielder.

When Jones came back he was given a few chances to prove he had something left but when he was unable to impress management so they went looking for answers and found themselves with a Manny in hand and the Dodger outfield was set in stone from that point forward. Andre in RF, Kemp in CF, and Manny in LF.

It was that configuration that allowed the Dodgers to set the league on it's ear and run away with the NL West Division.

It was that configuration that allowed the Dodgers roar through the Cubs and not only win their first playoff series in 20 years but to sweep the Cubs no less.

It was that configuration that allowed the Dodgers post the best record in 2009 before Manny was suspended.

If Jones had done his job how long would it have taken before Andre and Kemp became everyday outfielders? If Jones had done his job would he be doing a lousy job in CF while Kemp plays RF thus robbing us of the best defensive CF many Dodgers have every seen? Would Andre had been comfortable enough to go off in Aug/Sept 2008?

It took Andruw Jones complete meltdown as a player for the best things to happen for the Dodgers. Instead of derision he gets a thank you from me.  I pretty much stopped reading MSTI after reading the cheap shots he continually throws in Andruw's direction. If he had not been such a total waste of a ballplayer and had actually played at his 2007 level we would not be where we are today, sitting atop the baseball world,  looking down on everyone including the mighty Sox and Yankee's.

So with that in mind I rationalized the A Jones contract and wished him well in 2009 hoping he'd bounce back. At the end of 2006, A Jones had been one of the best centefielders in history both offensively and defensively and looked to be a shoo - in for the HOF. That ride hit a roadblock much to early in his career. He may be getting the best cherry picked games but he's doing something with them, and after hitting three home runs last night against the Los Angeles Angels, this is one Dodger fan who is happy for him. Those that have taken so much credit for saying that Jones was done as a ballplayer might have to re-think that line of thought. He may have been useless in 2008 but with an OPS over .900 in 2009, he's back on the map. In fact he is now sporting an OPS+ of 139 which is the highest of his career. Good thing because as a DH only against LHP he needs to hit at that level to be worth something. Sure it is Texas, and sure it is against LHP. Still I'm pretty sure that Texas management is quite happy they took a chance on him when no one else would touch him.

He knew he couldn't play in LA, so he made a deal to make his contract less of burden to the Dodgers in 2009 and who knows how much that played into allowing us to sign Wolf, Hudson, Blake, and Manny. 

Good luck Andruw and thanks.

Phil Gurnee, Dodger Fan

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it is wierd to see him DH. He used to be such a great defensive player

by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 9, 2009 10:40 AM PDT reply actions  

i don't think we can correlate

kemp’s emergence as our everyday cf with andruw’s complete suckage last year (one of the worst offensive seasons in HISTORY). had andruw never been signed, wouldn’t kemp have played anyway?
i also don’t think that we can link the manny trade directly to andruw either. getting manny was a confluence of fortuitous events. had andruw not played, we might (would) have won a few more games and still would have been in a stretch run looking to add pieces. heck, we might have gotten past the phillies if we had invested our FA money in a more productive player.

it just doesn’t make sense to me to link someone’s decline to someone’s emergence or someone’s trade. they’re somewhat related, but should be reviewed as independent events.

also this:

He knew he couldn’t play in LA, so he made a deal to make his contract less of burden to the Dodgers in 2009 and who knows how much that played into allowing us to sign Wolf, Hudson, Blake, and Manny.

is completely illogical… he didn’t make that deal out of the goodness of his heart and as a benevolent act to all dodger fans. it was a personal business decision that, judging by recent quotes, was in no way motivated by his desire to help the dodgers.

that said, i don’t really harbor ill will towards andruw. i just no longer respect him as a professional and a player. if he does well from here on out— good for him. but you won’t find me thanking him or wishing him well. his failures only set us back, and certainly didn’t contribute to our current success. give credit where credit is due, to our current players, their maturation, and their current performance.

by whorge on Jul 9, 2009 11:55 AM PDT reply actions  

If Andruw didn’t sign, Pierre would still be in CF with Kemp in RF and Ethier in LF.

by Eric Stephen on Jul 9, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

i'm not sure how we can make this claim

it’s like we assume the team and player progression would have been static in andruw’s absence, and that we would never have pursued manny, who pretty much fell into our laps.

by whorge on Jul 9, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

It took a ton of work to bring Manny into our laps

if we had three productive outfielders I doubt they would have worked so hard.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jul 9, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or any numbe of other options.

Ned was going to get an outfielder in the winter of 2007 because he didn’t trust the three incumbents he currently had.

Whorge – I’m not rewriting history, it is there. The good fortune of us signing Jones and him sucking is the confluence of events that put us in our current situation. I can give any number of ways it would have gone different if both those events had not occurred. Even if Jones had done what he was hired to do that would not have been enough for us to win last year and I don’t think we’d had the money to upgrade with Hudson/Wolf given the current budget that doesn’t appear to be increasing this year.

I never suggested he renegotiated his contract out of good will. The Dodgers needed it so they could free up money in 2009 and they weren’t going to release Jones unless he played ball and renegotiated his deal. Jones wanted out badly enough so he said yes. But he easily could have said no, and what would the Dodgers have done then? They would owe him 22Million for 2009 and had a player that they still would have had to eventually release because he would have been poison in the clubhouse. It worked out for everyone but it took both sides to make it happen.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jul 9, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Isn't Ned a former scout?

You’d think he had a better eye to judge his own talent.

by Tripon on Jul 9, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I think we’re looking at this in a different way. The freed up money helped us out for sure. I guess I’m just saying there’s no knowing what would have happened if we hadn’t signed him to begin with, and showing a causal relationship to our current success with his failure and subsequent release is a little bit misguided in my opinion.

that, and i’m totally not for thanking him or wishing him good luck. he came here and did his job quite poorly, but still made out like a bandit - anything he does at the present doesn’t really matter to me. my view is that i could care less if he hit 50hr this year or 0, or if he’s awesome in coming years- i can view his buyout as a sunk cost; what he did with his time here is despicable and i’m judging him on that.

by whorge on Jul 9, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

i always mess up my formatting here

didn’t mean to cross out that section

by whorge on Jul 9, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

And of course my sponsorship proves to be an epic double fail

Not only is he beating the crap out of the Angels, but he’s still on the Dodgers’ payroll.

Witty .sig goes here.

by scareduck on Jul 9, 2009 1:03 PM PDT reply actions  

I have to admit I took perverse pleasure

in the fact he hit those home runs against your Angels.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jul 9, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yet, I'm rooting harder for the Angels this year then in years past

as I can’t believe the roadblocks they are trying to overcome this year.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jul 9, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I always root for them, if only for the Dodgers to have more World Series games I can attend.

by Eric Stephen on Jul 9, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't root for the Angels

because it annoyed me in 2002 seeing guys I grew up with (in the San Fernando Valley mind you) start wearing Angels gear and claiming they were always Angels fans. Um, no, you weren’t.

by Michael White on Jul 9, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

So because of a few fans you won't root for them?

As a Clipper fan will you stop rooting for the Clippers when we finally upstage the Lakers and some fans start claiming they were always Clipper fans?

I’ve never quite understood the disdain for bandwagon fans. Who gives a shit what level of fan someone is?

Just tell you me you don’t like the team because that argument is lame as hell.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jul 9, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was a joke.

I only really dislike teams that are rivals (this is true in all sports.) Giants, Padres, Rockies and Diamondbacks. Otherwise any teams that would compete with the Dodgers for the Wild Card. I personally “nothing” American League teams. I don’t enjoy the DH and I don’t have too much time to follow baseball other than trying to watch 182 Dodger’s game’s a year.

I do enjoy discussing local markets and flavors— I even discussed it in another thread recently. I like figuring out that there are portions of Western New York where fans lean more towards either the Pirates, Blue Jays or Indians than Yankee’s or Mets. In fact my aunt lives in Western New York and her regional sports channel is Sports Time Ohio and she gets the Indians locally. I like discussing which neigbhorhoods in Southern California generally support Dodgers/Angels/Padres.

As for the Clipper fan thing. Ha, let’s just say we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. But otherwise, ya I’ll be just fine with a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon. Its more fun going to a close basketball game and having a full stadium cheering for the Clippers as opposed to the Celtics.

by Michael White on Jul 9, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now I feel stupid

but I have seen those sentiments expressed so I figured they were valid.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jul 9, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

diamond83Hong-Chih Kuo is now rehabbing at Triple-A Albuquerqueabout 1 hour ago from web

by Tripon on Jul 9, 2009 1:33 PM PDT reply actions  

I think it is impossible to know what would have happened without Jones in the lineup last year. Yea, we may not have gotten Manny, but we might still have made it past the Cubs with our current roster, and we would still have some trading chips in prospects that left.

by robotmadeofnails on Jul 9, 2009 1:36 PM PDT reply actions  

FWIW

I will stand with you and by my positive ranking of the Jones and Schmidt contracts. JS was a risk, but I thought a good one. It didn’t pan out, but I don’t think that makes the signing a bad one. Jones I didn’t consider much of a risk at all. I thought he had upside in a probable rebound for 2007, but felt even if he put up 2007 numbers, he was a huge gain over Pierre. Jones was a good signing. I didn’t see the point in his contract restructure and release (though after 2008 I assumed he would be of very limited value and did not foresee him rebounding as he has in 2009).

by Paul Scott on Jul 9, 2009 3:14 PM PDT reply actions  

I was on board with both Schmidt and Jones as well when the contracts were signed, but if I would have known, as the club did, that Schmidt had the shoulder injury at the time of signing the contract, then I wouldn’t have been on board with him at all.

by Eric Stephen on Jul 9, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

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2012 Dodgers Payroll

Italics denote estimates
Pos No Player 2012 Salary
C 17 Ellis $500,000 team control
1B 7 Loney $6,375,000
2B 14 Ellis $2,500,000
3B 5 Uribe $8,000,000
SS 9 Gordon $485,000 team control
LF 21 Rivera $4,000,000
CF 27 Kemp $10,000,000
RF 16 Ethier $10,950,000

IF/OF 6 Hairston $2,250,000
OF 10 Gwynn $850,000
2B/3B 3 Kennedy $800,000
C 18 Treanor $850,000
IF 12 Sellers $485,000 team control

SP 22 Kershaw $6,000,000
SP 58 Billingsley $9,000,000
SP 29 Lilly $12,000,000
SP 37 Capuano $3,000,000
SP 44
Harang $3,000,000

CL 54 Guerra $485,000 team control
RHP 74
Jansen $500,000 team control
RHP 55 Guerrier $4,750,000
RHP Coffey $1,000,000
RHP 66 MacDougal $650,000
LHP 57 Elbert $485,000 team control
RHP 36
Hawksworth $500,000 team control

TJ 41 De La Rosa $485,000 team control



Manny $8,087,432 deferred


Andruw $3,375,000 deferred


Pierre $3,050,000 deferred
Furcal $3,000,000 deferred
Kuroda $2,000,000 deferred
Garland $1,500,000 option buyout
Blake $1,250,000 option buyout

Totals
$112,162,432

For more detailed information, click here.

Players on 40-man roster used as roster
fillers until moves are made.

Current 40-man roster count: 40
(not including Belisario)

2012 Non-Roster Invitees

No Player Age*
63 Jose Ascanio rhp
27
61 Alberto Castillo lhp
36
60 Matt Chico lhp
29
35 John Grabow lhp
33
59 Angel Guzman rhp
30
47 Wil Ledezma lhp
31
72 Shane Lindsay rhp
27
62 Fernando Nieve rhp 29
73 Scott Rice lhp 30
70 Will Savage rhp
27
71 Ryan Tucker rhp
25

30 Josh Bard c 34
82 Griff Erickson c 24
81 Matt Wallachc 26
67 Jeff Baisley 3b/1b 29
62 Luis Cruz ss/2b 28
33 Josh Fields 3b 29
64 Lance Zawadzki if 27
56 Cory Sullivan of 32

*Age on June 30, 2012

NRI count: 19

For more info, click here.


Manager

Eric___ned___reporters_2011_trade_deadline_small Eric Stephen

Editors

100_1427_small Phil Gurnee

Dgy_small David Young

Hanauma_bay_small Chad Moriyama

2501_small Michael White

Raptors_small Brandon Lennox