How Good Are Josh Bell and Steven Johnson?
Since the Dodgers acquired set-up man George Sherrill from the Orioles for Josh Bell and Steven Johnson there has been quite a bit of talk over whether the Dodgers gave up too much for him. Sherrill has done his part since coming to L.A., pitching 2.1 scoreless innings with 5 strike outs. But just how good are Josh Bell and Steven Johnson? And how did the Dodgers package compare to the one the Phillies dealt to get Cliff Lee? Luckily, Marc Hulet of Fangraphs has been making a list of the 35 best prospects dealt at the trading deadline.
The top prospect on the list is third baseman Brett Wallace, the centerpiece of the A's haul in return for Matt Holliday. In the second spot there's Aaron Poreda, who was one of the headliners in the Jake Peavy deal. And then in third we have Dodger prospect Josh Bell, one of the players traded for Sherrill. Here's what Hulet has to say about Bell:
Prior to the 2009 season, Bell’s pro career could have been categorized as "promising" but he had yet to put everything together. The former fourth round pick out of a Florida high school has improved by leaps and bounds this season despite making the big jump from high-A to double-A. He also missed more than half of the year in 2008 due to injuries. On the ‘09 season, Bell is currently hitting .296/.386/.494 with 11 homers in 334 at-bats. The 22-year-old has also banged out 30 doubles. Bell’s approach at the plate has certainly improved. After averaging a walk rate of about 8.6 BB% in his first two seasons, that number has improved to about 13.6 BB% in the past two years. His strikeout rate is also down almost 9% over 2008 (29.9 to 21.0 K%). If the Orioles club can find a one-year stopgap for the hot corner in 2010, Bell should be ready to play full-time at the MLB level in 2011.
Clearly Bell's stock has risen quite a bit since the beginning of the season, enough to make him one of the best propsects traded at the deadline. Bell would have been a good fit to take over third base in 2011 as Casey Blake declines and is forced into a utility role. Although perhaps Blake Dewitt or someone else will be able to fill the role capably.
Anyway, on with the list. Nick Hagadone is #4; Hagadone combined with Justin Masterson to bring Victor Martinez to Beantown. After that we finally get our first Phillie on the list, as Jason Knapp takes the #5 spot. Knapp is a very young pitcher with a very high ceiling, and it sounds like the Indians might have preferred him over someone like Bell according to Hulet:
The Indians were so happy to have the chance to acquire him that the organization took him in the trade even though he was on the disabled list with shoulder fatigue. If Knapp cannot hold up to the rigors of pitching as a starter, he could become a dominating closer with a fastball that creeps up near 100 mph. He also has a power slider and a good changeup.
Obviously Knapp could be really good or could never reach the majors, but maybe the Indians preferred someone like him over the lowered ceiling of Bell.
Tim Alderson is sixth on the list. Alderson was with the Giants until they made the poor decision to trade him straight up for Freddy Sanchez. The we have the next Phillie as Carlos Carrasco takes the #7 spot:
Value-wise, Carrasco peaked as a prospect mid-way through the 2007 season. The right-hander stopped trusting his stuff when he struggled after being promoted to double-A. His formerly plus curveball has regressed to the point where it is an average pitch for him. Carrasco now relies mostly on a low-90s fastball that can touch 95-96 mph and a changeup... With a little more aggression, and if he can regain his plus breaking ball, Carrasco could realize his potential as a No. 2 starter.
Carrasco's ability doesn't quite match his name recognition, but he still has the ability to be a mid-rotation starter at least. He has struggled with the Indians so far though, allowing 9 runs in 13 innings.
Now we scoot down to #9 on the list, catcher Lou Marson. Marson was another piece in the Cliff Lee deal, and here's Hulet's piece on him:
Marson’s value has taken a bit of a hit in 2009. He’s shown that he can consistently hit for average but the right-handed hitter has struggled to hit the ball with authority. Scouts were already knocking the catcher for his lack of power prior to 2009, but his ISO has dropped from .120 in ‘07 to .102 to .076 in ‘09. He’s hit just one homer and 14 doubles this year in 228 at-bats. On the plus side, he continues to get on base via the walk (12.4 BB%) and keeps the strikeouts to a minimum (19.0 K%). With Carlos Santana already established as the catcher of the future in Cleveland, Marson is headed for a back-up role if he’s not traded again.
It does seem a bit odd that the Indians would want Marson as they already have great minor league depth at catcher plus Kelly Shoppach. It could just be an instance of the Indians thinking Marson was undervalued and taking talent over need.
Two spots after Marson is another new Indian, left-handed pitcher Scott Barnes. The Giants traded him to get Ryan Garko, though they probably overpaid. I've seen Barnes at High-A San Jose Giants games and his stuff is pretty impressive. He comes from a three-quarters arm slot but still throws a low 90's heater and a good breaking ball. Three spots after Barnes is the other Dodger prospect dealt in the Sherrill deal, pitcher Steve Johnson:
It’s been a slow climb through the minors for Johnson. The former high school drafted pick has struggled with his command and control throughout his career. He’s also working hard to improve his secondary pitches. Johnson spent the majority of his time in the Dodgers’ system this year at high-A, where he allowed 94 hits in 96.2 innings. He also posted rates of 3.91 BB/9 and 9.50 K/9. Prior to the trade, the right-hander made two double-A starts. His stuff would probably be better coming out of the bullpen (He can occasionally hit 93 mph as a starter), where he could focus on one secondary pitch to go with the heater. His ceiling is that of a set-up man or No. 4 starter.
Johnson is another player whose stock has risen with strong work this year. His ceiling is relatively low though, meaing he won't be an impact player. Johnson has made one start so far with the Orioles and allowed 2 runs in 4 innings with 1 walk and 1 strikeout.
Finally there's Jason Donald, who's all the way down at #20 on the list:
Donald, 24, has followed up his offensive-breakout campaign in 2008 with an injury-filled ‘09 season. An average fielder at shortstop, Donald will likely have to move to second base in the Majors, although the hot corner is an option if he develops more power (which is not expected to happen). He hasn’t looked overly sharp since coming back from his injury.
One might compare Donald to Chin-Lung Hu, although I still think the injuries are hurting his bat more than anything. I'd still take Donald over Johnson, a guy I couldn't see cracking the Dodger rotation, but clearly Hulet doesn't view it that way.
So what do we have? It looks like both the Giants and Dodgers overpaid for the players they got, while the Phillies managed to give up quantity moreso than quality for Cliff Lee. Josh Bell, despite his lack of name-recognition, is maybe the best prospect dealt between the two trades. However, the Phillies package still seems clearly stronger as they have the next three players on the list. Steven Johnson and Jason Donald are the two lower-level prospects dealt, and neither figures to make a big impact at the major league level. The Dodgers probably should have got more for Bell, considering nearly all the prospects ranked around him were dealt for premier players, which Sherrill isn't.
However, Sherrill is a great fit to combat the Phillies in the playoffs, considering Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, and Raul Ibanez are all left-handed. While the Dodgers may have paid too much to acquire him, at least Sherrill can still be a thorn in the Phillies side for the next couple years when the Dodgers will likely be taking them on for a spot in the World Series.
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I mean, Sherrill can help us down the stretch and in the playoffs… but trading away a future starter at 3rd when Casey Blake is by no means a permanent option seems silly. I don’t have a problem with getting the player we want, but it seems more often than not that we don’t get the deal we want. This again points back to Ned.
Best prospect (of those traded) for a reliever? Makes very little sense.
Best prospect (of those traded) for a reliever? Makes very little sense.
True, but was there a better reliever than Sherrill who was traded? I can’t think of another off hand…
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Aug 7, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
It's better to think of it in terms of
“do the Dodgers really need him”
I say “no”.
by Chad Moriyama on Aug 7, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Dodgers must really be high on Pedro Baez...
for them to give up Bell in a deal like this. I have no doubts Sherrill will give them a quality veteran arm out of pen for the next two or so years they have him under club control. As for Bell, at least he stands a chance to get a head start in the bigs with a team that’s clearly in rebuilding mode. Best of luck to him!
I don't think they are high on Baez
they just met the asking price of the Orioles because they wanted Sherrill. With Kuo coming back strong this smacks of the Lugo deal when we traded for him because Kent was hurt and then didn’t need him when Kent proved to be healthy. Luckily we didn’t miss those prospects and hopefully we won’t miss but I doubt we catch that lucky break again.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Considering his struggles against LHP I find it hard to believe he was the 3rd best prospect traded. At best he becomes a platoon 3rd baseman, in the worse case, he’s moved to 1st base. If you can’t hit minor league left hand pitchers you aren’t all of the sudden going to start hitting major league left handers.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
who thinks the dodgers should pick up john smoltz
hes not suited for the AL… i think he would be a great 5th starter in the NL. Hes also a veteran presence that Ned loves and can work with the younger guys. does anyone else agree that we should we should give him one more chance.?
he's gotten smashed around
I don’t know if he’s worth using a roster spot on at this point in his career. He just doesn’t seem healthy after that surgery.
Agree with Whorge
It can be argued that he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, but it’s time for Smoltz to hang them up. He’s done…
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Aug 7, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Hes doing great Vs. Right handed batters
They are only getting on base .25 percent of the time… hes just been horrible against left handed batters. They are hitting .440 against him. and getting on even more with walks. I think he needs to just regain the grip on his splitter and he will be back to normal
Why would minor leaguers never make progress though?
Why even draft Kyle Russell in the first place then? :o
by Chad Moriyama on Aug 7, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Bernard Gilkey Still Paid By AZ Through 2017!
Thought this article was interesting, on the D-Backs and crazy deferred salaries:
The Arizona Diamondbacks payroll shows up at around $73 million this season, but in reality, the team that has likely deferred more money than any other in the history of sports, will cut checks totaling $90 million.
Schmidt
Since we know Stults is coming up, will they 60-day DL Schmidt (effectively ending his season) or just put him on the standard 15 day?
Abreu
Other than his recent success, any idea why Abreu finally got the call over DeWitt? The org seemed to love one and not the other.
Sounds accurate
But what’s his role? Pinch hitter extraordinaire? Does he > Castro in terms of spot starts?
I would guess that...
the organization is understandably tired on the DeWitt yo-yo expiriment. He’s been up and down plenty of times this year and he hasn’t been all that successful when up (which is understandable.) The Dodgers would like more depth off the bench at it seems appropriate to give another player a try rather than give DeWitt yet another call up.
As a result, I do not believe Abreu has passed DeWitt on the depth chart. As I said earlier, Torre is a loyal man, and I think he will continue to go to bat for his guys— Dewitt and Wade.
by Michael White on Aug 7, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of Torre's 'guys', what about Leach?
If Kuo and Sherrill remain healthy, his finished as a Dodger for several years.
Good point
I actually think Torre views Leach as the exact opposite way that he views Wade and DeWitt. Wade was his Proctor, who he felt he could throw out there every day in the 8th and perform (which Wade certainly did in 08.)
I don’t even think we can overestimate how much Torre probably loves DeWitt. DeWitt was the 22 year old not really on the organizational radar who is thrust into the opening day starting thirdbaseman role thanks to injuries to the PVL and the top non-pitching prospect in the system. DeWitt starts the year out great and plays a strong defensive third base. DeWitt then cools off a bit and the health of Nomar and LaRoche and later the trade for Blake allow DeWitt to be sent back down to AAA (where he then hits the cover off the ball.) During his AAA stint DeWitt gets reps at second base which allows DeWitt to replace Kent during the post-season! DeWitt does well in this role too. As a result, DeWitt is certainly Torre’s guy, more so then all the others, IMO.
Leach is probably a quite different story. He gets called up to be the LOOGY when Ohman and Kuo go on the DL. Leach pitches fine, but nothing to really blow Torre away. Now Kuo is back and Sherril who has proven he can be a “closer” is on the team for a few years. Leach is utterly dispensible to Torre (IMO) and would likely be a trade candidate…
by Michael White on Aug 7, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
John lackey for the Veteran X
he would be great in the NL… then the number 5 spot goes to either elbert or mcdonald
Competition for Number 5 Will be
Elbert
McDonald
Lindblom (was given a look this year)
Troncoso
by Michael White on Aug 7, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
no way tronccoso or lindblom are going to be starters next year
troncoso doesnt have a 3rd pitch.. plus his second pitch is not that great.
Lindblom has never went past 6 innings in the minors or more then 5 for 3 consecutive starts so theres no way he could go a whole big league season as the number 5 starter.
its either elbert or mcdonald.. but i think ned is going to go and buy a pitcher in the free agent market because he and joe wont trust elbert or mcdonald starting and would want a VETERAN! which i disagree with
No way?
As I said, Lindblom was given a look at being the number 5 starter this year (when no other candidates stood out) so why would you assume next year would be any different?
Troncoso was stretched out last off-season and was going to be looked at as a starter. Again, why would he not be given a look next year, especially since his role in the bullpen is dwindling?
by Michael White on Aug 7, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
there was no way lindblom would
win the number 5 starter job… same with troncoso and its not going to happen next year either
How can you say that so matter of factly?
Why did they give Lindblom a chance to compete? Because they were bored?
Why did they have Troncoso pitch as a starter in winter ball?
by Michael White on Aug 7, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
so he can improve his secondary pitches
so he can become an even better pitcher then he was last year
lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Aug 7, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
when the dodgers moved him into a starting role
it kinda ruined his whole career. he was doing fine as a reliever and could have made it to the bigs but the dodgers organization thought for some reason he would suceed as a starter
Dodger Lineup
from Josh Rawitch:
Furcal, SS
Ethier, RF
Manny, LF
Blake, 3B
Loney, 1B
Kemp, CF
Martin, C
Hudson, 2B
Bills P
Also:
And Tony Abreu is here in the big leagues. Not sure if the other half of the move is public yet, so I’ll refrain from posting here but I’m sure it’ll be in the news shortly
That sounds like Schmidt DFA talk to me.
Braves Lineup
From Mark Bowman:
McLouth CF
Prado 2B
Chipper 3B
McCann C
Anderson LF
Escobar SS
LaRoche 1B
Church RF
Jurrjens P

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