Jonathan Broxton Is Not Our Guy
by baronycamby on Aug 8, 2009 8:45 AM PDT
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Jonathan Broxton is not the closer that's gonna get us to the World Series. Even with his amazing stats in the first half I still didn't trust him. He often makes his saves very interesting when they don't have to be, giving up walks and hits. Ever since Matt Stairs' homerun last year he hasn't been the same in my opinion.
The truth is finally starting to show, he's blown 2 saves in the last week or so. Luckily, we won the first blown save but yesterday we should have won and it was his fault we eventually got blown out. Now we don't have the best record in baseball anymore.
Finally, I think Torre should make Sherrill our new closer. The dude is lights out.
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Ever since Matt Stairs’ homerun last year he hasn’t been the same in my opinion.
This doesn’t make any sense. Broxton was better than EVER once the regular season began.
The truth is finally starting to show, he’s blown 2 saves in the last week or so. Luckily, we won the first blown save but yesterday we should have won and it was his fault we eventually got blown out.
The first blown save was Kershaw’s 8 inning gem. No, we didn’t win that game. Yesterday, he was getting squeezed on the McClouth AB. Broxton should have gotten a 3rd strike call.
And it’s not his fault we got blown out; that was Troncoso and Elbert’s doing. Broxton left with the game tied. The Dodgers had chances to win in extra innings but didn’t come through offensively. Don’t put that all on Broxton
Now we don’t have the best record in baseball anymore.
All that matters is that we have the best record in the NL West. Why are you worried about the Yankees?
Finally, I think Torre should make Sherrill our new closer. The dude is lights out.
And if Sherrill starts blowing saves, I guess it’s rinse, wash, repeat — “Sherrill is Not Our Guy.”
blaming umpires = loser
f**k, man, there's a beverage here!
by seesdifferent on Aug 8, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
and one more thing...
He often makes his saves very interesting when they don’t have to be, giving up walks and hits.
Broxton’s WHIP is 0.97. Don’t think you can say that about a guy putting less than 1 guy on base per inning.
Also his slugging % allowed is .198, which is the lowest in the league among pitchers that have thrown 25 innings. And it’s not close. The saves he’s been blowing have been caused by seeing-eye singles and bloopers. That happens in baseball. Sure, he’s walked a few guys that have led to runs, but please, show me a pitcher who never walks anyone.
also this is completely off topic but i thought it was funny
When I looked up WHIP leaders on mlb.com, guess who #1 is? Mark Loretta…
Disagree with me now...
but you will see.
And his stats are inflated from the first half, I’m talking about NOW and in the future, he just doesn’t have the closer mentality
I'm always impressed with people who can read someone else's mind
he just doesn’t have the closer mentality
Just FYI, people who right things like that around here are not taken seriously.
by Michael White on Aug 8, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Broxton has always been the same pitcher
He’s Brian Wilson with a better haircut.
They both fall apart at a moment’s notice, because their control is so marginal. Broxton is younger, so maybe he’ll gain command.
f**k, man, there's a beverage here!
If broxton just throws strikes and doesnt walk people
hes the best closer in baseball.
if hes injured and hiding it, its really stupid of him and he should come out and tell us before he makes it worse.
Are you serious?
I’m not sure how to respond to this. Based on your callsign of baronycamby, you must be a Clippers fan. This makes all the sense in the world, because you clearly don’t know anything about sports. Broxton is easily one of the top 5 closers in the majors. His numbers belong in a video game. He also has a bad toe that he will have to deal with all season, and his recent struggles time up pretty much to the day of he incurred that injury. Seriously, you should put some more thought into your posts, you’re embarrassing yourself. You don’t have a “blog commentator” mentality.
As for seesdifferent, I am left speechless. Brian Wilson can’t hold Broxton’s jockstrap. Neither can you.
Based on your callsign of baronycamby, you must be a Clippers fan. This makes all the sense in the world, because you clearly don’t know anything about sports.
Take it easy chief. No need for that.
by Michael White on Aug 8, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
This ain’t a Laker blog and you owe all of us Clipper fans an apology.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I think Mike Dunleavy owes all Clippers fans an apology.
by insomniacslounge on Aug 8, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions
this
or donald sterling owes decades of apologies.
+1
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
by BoulderDodger on Aug 10, 2009 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions
-10
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
by BoulderDodger on Aug 10, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions
nothin to see here
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
by BoulderDodger on Aug 10, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions
BOOO
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
by BoulderDodger on Aug 8, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
oops
i meant to “-10” la dogger’s post.
nothin to see here.
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
by BoulderDodger on Aug 10, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions
He IS injured...
And Torre and the coaching staff know it, and have made it public: he’s not fully healed from his previous toe injury. And Torre said the best way to handle it is to give him rest. So of course, he’s been give NO rest. Somebody on another Dodger discussion board (dodgersoul.com) posted JB’s #’s pre- and post-injury, and he was lights out for 33 IPs before, and less than average after.
careful here
I almost got banned here for expressing an opinion on this, and noting that his performance since July 5 obviously isn’t what it was before (and that the toe probably has something to do with it).
True fans never, ever question a single player or their health. And the best way to support a player is to pretend that nothing is wrong when their health might be an issue. Especially when a playoff spot is a lock, and rest might significantly help their health.
No question that Broxton has struggled
but the grass isn’t always greener. Just because Sherrill has been perfect since he came over doesn’t mean he’d do any better then Broxton. Take a look at his log scores and you will see a guy who is not perfect. He’s death on lefties but a closer has to get everyone out.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I will only say that I vehemently disagree with this fan post, but thanks for participating.
I am happily enjoying one of the truly great relief pitchers in all of baseball in Broxton, and have been for 3-4 years. I only hope that one day you will open your eyes and realize what you have been missing.
I'm with you, but ...
wouldn’t this be a neat time to start using a closer in the way Bill James and others over at Baseball Prospectus suggested?
I don’t really understand how you need a guy “to get to” the 9th. If you’re having problems in the 7th or 8th, why not have your best relief pitcher pitch then? And why not distribute the stress of “the closer” among two or three of your best? What would be the harm in having Brox, Sherrill & maybe Troncoso all share the 9th inning duties? Who died and made Tony LaRussa the Greatest Pitching Coach of All Time (reference to Eckersley being used in the 9th inning role almost exclusively, for pretty much the first time).
by Seanny Rotten on Aug 10, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate watching JB as the season goes on he is fine in the beginning but somehow changes as season goes on.
If you take last night it seemed he wasn’t looking who he had to face, so he walks the guy with one out and lets him steal 2nd. He should have been throwing over at first at least 2-3 times, which sometimes can improve his wildness. The fact that Garrett (anderson always has hit him) was now going to face him he should made his prime objective on keeping the runner at 1st.
The other thing that bugged me last night why in the heck did we pinch hit for Sherrill, 2 outs nobody on and JP. JP is not going to hit a homer and sherrill had settled down and could have pinch ninth. We lose Manny (who is struggling a bit) That was really strange maybe to much Biggalow Green tea. Well I sure hope we get this together because 500 ball isn’t going to make it in the playoffs.
Paul D. Kelley
BN is a myopic site
by so.cal.native1952 on Aug 8, 2009 1:28 PM PDT reply actions
Sherril has been a closer
and had thrown 40 pitches already. He was not coming in for the 9th.
Also, I love how people are acting like Garret Anderson ripped a liner to drive in the tying run. He rolled over a fastball and hit a ground ball that happened to find a hole. It was a lucky play, these things happen.
by Michael White on Aug 8, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
well we shall see but closer means to close the door not give hope
Paul D. Kelley
BN is a myopic site
by so.cal.native1952 on Aug 8, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
it also means you have to allow some room for error. No one is 100%, and I mean no one. His save % is just fine and if you think that Sherrill is the answer, then again I suggest you actually look at how Sherrill has done in the role of Closer for the Orioles since he took over that job when he came over from the Mariners. He’s a solid pitcher but he’s not the messiah.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
no i never said that sherrill should be the closer, I just would have left him in and if he didn't look good go from there
I understand baseball (played all the way to Connie Mack) and sports as a long time coach and player, I always feel if it aint broke don’t change it. The problem with Brox is he follows Martins lead to much, he needs throw that nasty fast ball 98+.
Paul D. Kelley
BN is a myopic site
by so.cal.native1952 on Aug 8, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
you want Sherrill to throw 50+ pitches?
and we think Torre’s overusing our bullpen…
by bucknellbruin on Aug 8, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
You He could do that he is a grown man and who he doesn't throw 3 pitches
It’s all a crap shoot anyway, and the pitch count has really messed up pitching in the 90s and 2000s
Paul D. Kelley
BN is a myopic site
by so.cal.native1952 on Aug 8, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
you know he should be able to do that or he could just end up throwing 3 pitches
Made some errors
And you got to understand it just my opinion which is just that -—- everyone has one
Paul D. Kelley
BN is a myopic site
by so.cal.native1952 on Aug 8, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
sure he could throw that many pitches
but then he’s unusable for the next 2 days – plus his body isn’t used to throwing that many pitches in one outing. who knows how his control/arm would’ve reacted to that.
i just don’t get the problem you have with giving the ball to our all star closer with a 1 run lead in the 9th.
hindsight’s 20/20…it’s easy to second guess when things go wrong.
But baseball’s a game of luck. look at the angels today. Fuentes gives up 4 line drives – 3 right at people, and the Angels hold their 1 run lead and win. Brox gives up a slow grounder that finds a hole. It happens.
by bucknellbruin on Aug 8, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
and the pitch count has changed the game
not messed it up. If that’s your opinion, fine, but the point is that the game is changed and Sherrill isn’t used to throwing 50 pitches in an appearance.
by bucknellbruin on Aug 8, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with your points I guess we are just in a slump
Went to the game tonight and my friend and I walked away and just agreed the bums are slumping
Paul D. Kelley
BN is a myopic site
by so.cal.native1952 on Aug 9, 2009 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions
You should seek out Orel Hershiser's comments on
pitch counts, the lowering of the mound and shoulder injuries – three things he knows quite a bit about.
DO NOT seek out Orel’s comments on the home run and their ability to kill a rally. He is an insane maniac when talking about this topic and you should run fast and hard away from anyone who utters the phrase, “A home run is a bit of a rally killer.” I’m looking right at you, too, Steve Lyons.
by Seanny Rotten on Aug 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I can understand the rally killer comment slightly ...
… – slightly mind you – in the context of early innings and a starting pitcher. Almost all starters have a pretty strong preference for pitching from a windup, so they do get back to their comfort zone after yielding an HR. Maybe they even have pitches they like from the windup that aren’t as good as out of the stretch.
In later innings and regarding relievers, almost certain horseshit.
. . .
yes but RALLY KILLER? You just put at least one run up! I’m going to have to disagree with you.
by Seanny Rotten on Aug 10, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
in fact, here they are!
“Since 1968, I believe the intensity of every pitch has gotten harder and harder in the big leagues,” said Orel Hershiser, the National League Cy Young Award winner in 1988. “In 1968, guys threw over the top, the ball went downhill and became a moving fastball. When they lowered the mound in 1969, they took away the pitcher’s leverage. They took away the plane of the baseball, and a straight pitch became more on the plane of the bat. At that point, pitchers had to move the ball so it was not on the plane of the bat, and to do that, they had to increase the intensity on every pitch. Movement became a key, not just velocity. So with all the elements we have today, if the intensity of one pitch is increased by, say, 10 percent, then 125 pitches becomes 115, which becomes 110, then becomes 100.”
I always thought it was the saddest thing to watch him pitch in a Dodger uniform in the 90’s. Then he had to go and play for the Indians and that other team up north that wears Halloween colors year round and actually put up decent numbers for both of them!
by Seanny Rotten on Aug 11, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
and the san diego debacle was a soft single up the middle
the only one were jon got hit hard to blow a save was carlos ruizs double to the oppo field
If there's one thing Broxton needs to work on.
Its to hold the fucking runner at first so he doesn’t get a fucking easy steal to 2nd.
Thank You exzacly my biggest point, I mean how many times does he have to get burned
DAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Paul D. Kelley
BN is a myopic site
by so.cal.native1952 on Aug 8, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah he does need to work on that
not only does he have no pickoff move but his leg kick with runners on is way too high. he takes forever to get it to the plate
by bucknellbruin on Aug 8, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
Broxton does not hold runners on at all and as the season goes on he loses command of his pitches. and YES I do know he has an injured toe, so why isn’t he sitting out? He’s causing us games…and I’m not reading minds mwhite06, It’s just to me that when Gagne, Saito, and Rivera, closers like that I feel like the game is over, with Broxton I don’t.
so in Brox's first year as a closer
you compare him to IMO the greatest closer of all time (Rivera) and the guy with the greatest season by a closer of all time (Gagne)? Sure, we’d all like Broxton to reach that level – and up until his toe injury, he was equal to that standard – but that’s pretty unrealistic.
As for Saito…last year he was 18/22 in save opps. Broxton is 24/28 right now, and it doesn’t take a math major to figure out that Brox has a better %
I get that you don’t feel 100% confident with him now – neither do I – but if you didn’t during April and May you never will. No one is perfect; not Rivera, not Gagne, no one. Gagne may have had a ‘perfect’ season, but there were plenty of times that a ground ball could’ve found a hole and ruined that streak, just like what happened to Brox last night. Broxton has his issues, but he’s a damn good closer, and we could do much, MUCH worse than having him on the staff.
by bucknellbruin on Aug 8, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just did some research
In games where Billingsley starts and Broxton pitches at some point, his stats are:
Games where Broxton closes for chad billingsley
april 8 1.0 2 ks 0 hits 0 walks 0 runs
april 23 1.2 2 ks 1 hit 1 hbp 0 walks 0 runs
april 28 0.2 1 k 0 hits 2 walks 0 runs
may 14 1.0 3 ks 2 hits 1 walk 2 runs
may 19 1.0 1 k 0 hits 0 walks 0 runs
june 3 1.0 1 k 0 hits 0 walks 0 runs
june 9 1.0 2 ks 1 hit 1 walk 1 run
june 14 1.0 3 ks 1 hit 0 walks 0 runs
july 5 1.0 1 k 2 hits 3 walks 3 runs
july 10 1.0 0 ks 3 hits 1 walk 2 runs
july 22 1.0 1 k 0 hits 0 walks 0 runs
august 7 1.0 1 k 1 hit 1 walk 1 run
Games where Broxton has pitched in Billingsley starts
12.1 18 ks 11 hits 10 walks 9 runs
6.69 ERA 1.73 WHIP
Obviously there is something very wrong when he relieves Bills, or it is a very, very, huge coincidence that he just happens to implode when he tries to get the win for Bills.
In games where Broxton pitches in non-Billingsley starts, his stats are:
38.1 58 ks 15 hits 12 walks 7 runs
1.65 ERA 0.71 WHIP
To me it just seems like maybe there is something about the delivery of Bills and Broxton that is similar and it helps the hitters pick up on Broxton better when Bills started the game. Who really knows.
Most likely just a small sample size issue.
by Eric Stephen on Aug 10, 2009 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
broxton has blown 4 potential billingsley win
broxton better pay half of his next years ARB money to Bills lol
by matthewmafa on Aug 10, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
ugh.... is ARB money doled out according to pitching victories? I'd file a Union Grievance if I were in MLB.
by Seanny Rotten on Aug 10, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Arb. is decided based on the arguments made by each side
I’m sure that Kim Ng and Dave Stewart (Chad’s agent) will each do a fine job of downplaying or playing up W-L, as needed, such that even an arbitrator can see that it is a low-weight factor in deciding the case. Or maybe the arbitrators (arbiters?) are idiots.
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