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Walter Alston: A manager, not a mascot.

The task of trying to make the case for the most successful manager in Dodgers history may not seem to be the most difficult job. Walter Alston managed the Dodgers to 2040 wins, seven pennants, and four World Series wins in 23 seasons in charge. However, The Quiet Man from Darrtown still manages to be a forgotten man in Dodgers history at times.

Walt_alston_autograph_medium
[via www.baseball-almanac.com]

When Alston was a manager, he was overshadowed by some of the greatest names in Dodgers history: Robinson, Snyder, Drysdale, Koufax, Hodges, Wills, Gilliam, Podres. Alston was the manager when the Dodgers unveiled the seemingly eternal infield of Garvey, Lopes, Russell, and Cey.

Alston did not have a distinctive style as a manager. He just tried to win with with the players he had. He knew that his philosophy was not as important as winning. He surrounded himself with good coaches and was blessed with a Dodgers farm system that seemed to churn out talent on demand.
 
But, Alston’s successor, Tommy Lasorda, is etched in the minds of Dodgers fans today as THE manager of the Dodgers. Alston stepped down as Dodgers manager with four games left in the 1976 season. And, he was rarely seen again in Los Angeles before he passed away in 1984.

Star-divide

Walter O’Malley and Buzzie Bavasi tabbed Alston to be the Dodgers manager after the 1953 season. Incumbent manager Chuck Dressen had asked for a multiyear contract. O’Malley refused to give a manager anything but a one-year deal. Dressen, somewhat of an egomaniac, was fired.
 
So, Alston made the jump up from managing Montreal of the International League to managing the defending National League champs in 1954. The Dodgers had won 105 games in 1953, but they would slide down into second in Alston’s first year on the job with a 92-62 record. On August 5, 1954, Alston gave young lefty Tommy Lasorda his first action in the big leagues, putting him in as a reliever in the fifth inning of a game the Dodgers were already trailing 8-2 to the Cardinals. By the time Lasorda left, the Cardinals led 11-4.
 
In 1955, Alston was the toast of Brooklyn as he steered the Dodgers to their first ever World Series championship, a seven-game win over the Yankees. The Dodgers had clinched the NL pennant on September 8, the earliest date for ever for a full season.
 
Another pennant followed in 1956, although it wasn’t clinched until the final day of the season. The Dodgers would lose to the Yankees in seven games this time.
 
The last year in Brooklyn in 1957 and the first year in 1958 were subpar years for the Dodgers. In their inaugural year in Los Angeles, the Dodgers were 71-83 and finished in seventh place, their worst showing since 1944.
 
In 1959, the Dodgers turned it all around, and with much of the same personnel as the 1958 squad. The one key acquisition was outfielder Wally Moon, who proved to be the only constant in an outfield that was often a revolving door among players like Duke Snider, Carl Furillo, Norm Larker, Don Demeter, and Ron Fairly.
 
The Dodgers starting pitching, which would be its backbone in the 1960s, was shaky. Alston went to his bullpen the second most of any manager in the NL in 1959.
 
The Dodgers shortstops, Don Zimmer (37 OPS+) and Bob Lillis (42 OPS+) were so bad that the Dodgers felt that rookie Maury Wills (55 OPS+) was an offensive force.
 
Somehow, Alston dragged a bunch of overachieving players into a tie at the end of the regular season with the star-filled Braves (Aaron, Mathews, Spahn, Burdette). The Giants (Mays, Cepeda, McCovey) led most of the season before a pitching meltdown dropped them to third.
 
The Dodgers and Braves finished with just 86 wins, one of the lowest totals ever for a first place. However, because of the tiebreaker playoff, which the Dodgers won in two games, the Dodgers finished with 88 regular season wins, tying the 1945 Tigers for fewest wins by a league champ in a full 154 game season. (The 2006 Cardinals now have the fewest wins of a pennant winner in a full season, 83.)
 
In the World Series, Alston relied on his bullpen again, mostly in the form of Larry Sherry who won two and saved the two others in a six-game win over the White Sox.
 
Three years later, Alston would experience his biggest failure. With the team now playing in Chavez Ravine, the Dodgers looked to be the class of the NL. Wills was stealing bases at an unprecedented rate. Tommy Davis won two jewels of the Triple Crown with a .346 batting average and 153 RBIs.
 
Don Drysdale would go 25-7. Johnny Podres was the only other starter to stay healthy the whole year. Koufax was slowed down by a circulatory problem. Alston relied on three relievers: Ron Perranoski (70 games, 107 1/3 IP), Ed Roebuck (64 games, 119 1/3 IP), and Sherry (58 games and 90 IP). The back end of the rotation was filled with the often wild Stan Williams (98 walks in 185 2/3 IP) and youngsters Joe Moeller and Pete Richert.
 
The Dodgers led by 5 1/2 games over the Giants on August 9. Then, they dropped five straight games. On September 22, the Dodgers inched out to a four game lead over the Giants with seven to play. The Dodgers would lose six of the last seven and the Giants and Dodgers finished the season in a tie.
 
The 1962 edition of a Dodgers-Giants playoff was not a pretty affair. The Giants won the first game at Candlestick 8-0 as Koufax tried to come back, but was not up to the task. The Dodgers tied the series the next day back at home with an ugly 8-7 win that took 4:18 to play before a crowd of a little over 25,000 at Dodger Stadium. (The crowd was small because it was a Tuesday afternoon game in extremely hot and smoggy conditions. And, a lot of fans had given up on the season).
 
It all came down to Game 165 on October 3, 1962. Juan Marichal would face Johnny Podres. The Dodgers went ahead 3-2 in the sixth on a 2-run homer by Tommy Davis. Wills tacked on an insurance run in the seventh when he stole third and scored on a throwing error.
 
Roebuck relieved Podres in the sixth and was still on in the mound to start the ninth, despite feeling sick from the heavy smog in the area. (1962 predates me, but anyone alive then can tell you that the early 1960s was the heyday of Los Angeles air pollution. It was really awful.)
 
But, Roebuck had pitched a 1-2-3 eighth and Alston thought he could finish off the game. But, Roebuck gave up a single to Matty Alou and then got Harvey Kuenn to ground into a force out. Pinch hitter Willie McCovey walked. Felipe Alou walked to load the bases with one out for Willie Mays.
 
At this point, you would think that Alston would have gone to his bullpen. He could have brought in Sherry. However, Sherry had been hit hard in his last three outings. Perranoski wasn’t an option as Mays destroyed lefties.
 
The pitcher the Dodgers players wanted to see on the mound was Drysdale. But, Drysdale had pitched the day before. However, Drysdale wanted the ball. Alston did not even get Drysdale warmed up.
 
Roebuck gave up an infield single to Mays that made the score 4-3. Now Alston went to his pen. With the bases still loaded and Orlando Cepeda up, Williams came in. Cepeda hit a sacrifice fly to right to tie the game and send Felipe Alou to third. But, there were two outs. Ed Bailey came up. Williams threw a wild pitch that moved Mays to second, but Alou held at third. Bailey was intentionally walked.
 
Jim Davenport now stood in the way. Williams walked him on five pitches to push across the go-ahead run. Alston came with the hook for Williams. Perranoski took over. Jose Pagan hit a grounder to rookie second baseman Larry Burright, who booted it to allow Mays to score to make it 6-4 Giants. Pinch hitter Bob Nieman struck out to stop the bleeding.
 
Giants manager Alvin Dark turned to his ace starter, Billy Pierce, to pitch the ninth. The Dodgers went out in order.
 
The postgame scene in the Dodgers clubhouse was ugly. Players screamed at Alston about how he coughed up the game by not using Drysdale. Third base coach Leo Durocher publicly second guessed Alston. All Alston would say was that he didn’t want to use Drysdale because he would need a starter for the World Series. The Dodgers players countered that it wouldn’t make a difference if the Dodgers weren’t in the World Series.

 

Some players may have even wanted to take a swing at Alston. That wouldn't have been advised. Alston might have been a quiet man, but he was also a strong man and not afraid to fight.

Alston was teetering on the brink of firing at the end of the season. But, O’Malley gave Alston another one-year deal. O’Malley preferred the quiet and noncontroversial Alston to the headaches that someone like Durocher would have given him as manager.
 
In 1963, thanks to some otherworldly pitching by Koufax, the Dodgers held off a late charge by the Cardinals to win the pennant by six games. The Dodgers would then sweep the Yankees in the World Series, holding the Bombers to just four runs. The sins of 1962 were absolved.
 
The Dodgers would make it back to the World Series in 1965. With Koufax pitching on a higher plain than anyone else, the Dodgers won 15 of their final 16 games to pass the Giants and win the pennant by two games. The Dodgers scored just 608 runs, eighth worst in the league. But, the team ERA was 2.81, best in the league.
 
The World Series against the Twins went to a seventh game. Alston was faced with the dilemma of whom to start in Game 7: Koufax or Drysdale. Alston would say that he started Koufax because he felt that Drysdale would be more effective out of the pen if needed. But, it was hard not to start the guy with a 2.04 ERA and 382 Ks for the season.  Koufax went the distance in a 2-0 win to give the Dodgers (and Alston) their fourth World Series.
 
The 1966 Dodgers would not win the pennant until the final day of the season in Philadelphia. Alston had to work Koufax and Drysdale hard. The offense, which was below average the year before, had not improved. A young Orioles team dominated the Dodgers in the World Series, limiting the Dodgers to just two runs and shutting them out for the last 33 innings.
 
After that loss, the Dodgers core came apart. Koufax retired. Wills was traded to the Pirates after a dispute over a postseason trip to Japan. The Dodgers slid to seventh place in 1967 and into eighth in 1968. The switch to divisional play in 1969 pushed the Dodgers into fourth place.
 
In 1970, the Dodgers started to bring up some of the most heralded prospects in organizational history. Players like Bill Russell (then an outfielder), Steve Garvey (a third baseman), and Bill Buckner (playing in left field) were starting to get playing time. The Dodgers improved to second place, although 14 1/2 games behind the Reds.
 
Alston was being portrayed as a manager who was old and out of touch with his players. Players found him aloof. In 1970, Alston was 59 years old. Reds manager Sparky Anderson was 36. At AAA Spokane, 42-year old Tommy Lasorda managed the team to a 94-52 record. Had Alston's time passed?

The Dodgers just missed out on the NL West title in 1971, falling one game short of the Giants. In 1972, the Dodgers again finished second, although 10 1/2 games back of the Reds. In 1973, Lasorda became the Dodgers third base coach and tacit heir apparent to Alston. The Garvey-Lopes-Russell-Cey infield was now in place. All four players had played for Lasorda in the minors.

In 1974, GM Al Campanis decided to supplement the young core of the team with the acquisition of two key veterans: center fielder Jim Wynn and reliever Mike Marshall.
 
Marshall was a known quantity as a durable reliever and only cost the Dodgers aging outfielder Willie Davis. Wynn was more of a risk as he had three subpar years in Houston prior to being acquired for Claude Osteen.
 
Few years had as many things go right for the Dodgers as 1974. Garvey had an MVP season (or one that looked line one to the voters of that era). Wynn hit 32 homers and drew 108 walks to add some much needed power to the lineup. Marshall won the Cy Young Award as Alston used him an astounding 106 times in relief for 208 1/3 innings pitched. (By comparison, the only pitcher on the 2009 Dodgers who pitched more innings than Marshall's 1974 total was Randy Wolf with 214.)
 
The Dodgers won 102 games in 1974, edging out the Reds by four games. The Dodgers then won their first ever NLCS in four games over the Pirates. In the World Series, the edge went to Oakland, who won in five games, three of them decided by one run.
 
In 1975, the Reds returned to the top of the NL West in style, winning 108 games and beating out the Dodgers by 20 games. Wynn and Marshall could not repeat their success. Wynn would be traded in the offseason and Marshall in June of 1976, both to the Braves.
 
By 1976, other teams were starting to inquire about Lasorda's availability to manage. It's not known for certain if Alston quit, or if he was pushed out of the job. He announced his retirement with four games left in the season. Lasorda was to be his successor. Alston didn't stick around for the last four games, not caring much to see Lasorda, whom he didn't get along with very well, take over the job that had defined him for the past 23 years. Alston's years of success quickly faded from people's memory as the larger than life Lasorda made people believe that he was the only Dodgers manager who ever mattered.
 
Alston's seven league titles are more than managers like Sparky Anderson (5), Joe Torre (6), Tony La Russa (5), Tommy Lasorda (4), Miller Huggins (6), and Bobby Cox (5). The only managers with more are Joe McCarthy and Connie Mack with 9 each and John McGraw and Casey Stengel with 10 each.
 
Even if you think that the manager has almost no effect on the game, Walter Alston has to be given credit for his ability to survive and adapt. He started off as an unknown manager leading established veterans in Brooklyn. He guided a group of aging veterans, young hitters, and a few castoffs to a World Series title in 1959. He survived an insurrection among his players and coaches after the 1962 debacle. He rode Sandy Koufax's arm to three World Series appearances (and two wins) in a four year span. He mixed together young and old stars to interrupt the Big Red Machine's domination of the NL West in the 1970s.
 
Walter Alston was not a celebrity when he managed the Dodgers. He just did his job. He expected the players to do their jobs. He doesn't get honored with bobbleheads or commemorative plaques like Lasorda. His legacy is four World Series trophies. And most of us would like to see the Dodgers have four more of those before they have to take home another Tommy Lasorda commemorative giveaway.

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Hmmm, I don’t know about you, but i remember Alston quite well. A great manager, and the Dodgers were fortunate to have Lasorda follow him. Opposite poles, but the same results..But the last sound like a dig at Lasorda, which i don’t understand..Torre is much like Alston,in demeanor at least, but in today’s game, very different from pre FA days, hard to say which would do better…But Tommy was hard not to like back then. His flamboyant ways, and his knowledge of his players (from managing them in the minors) was awesome.

by Bluetrain on Jan 25, 2010 7:57 AM PST reply actions  

It just doesn’t sound like a dig at Lasorda. It is a dig at Lasorda.

by Bob Timmermann on Jan 25, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Gee, what did Tommy do to you. Sounds personal

by Bluetrain on Jan 25, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

This post makes me want to

slow down to a walk and live my life full measure.

Now then: what time is it…ah, almost 8:00 in the morning…

by D4P on Jan 25, 2010 7:59 AM PST reply actions  

For me Tommy Lasorda was a refreshing change from the quiet Alston but that was because I like change and was simply tired of Alston. Of the Dodger bio’s I’ve read the one with Sandy Koufax A Lefty’s Legacy, by Jane Leavy left the biggest impression, and while Koufax pitched for Alston his whole career he was not his biggest fan. Without Koufax would we even be talking about Alston?

by meercatjohn on Jan 25, 2010 8:38 AM PST reply actions  

So was Koufax-Alston like Michael Jordan-Phil Jackson? Was Miler Huggins a good manager because he had Ruth and Gehrig? Was Joe McCarthy a good manager because he had Joe DiMaggio?

by Bob Timmermann on Jan 25, 2010 11:24 AM PST up reply actions  

I"d stick with baseball

and say Yes. MIller Huggins or Joe McCarthy had the good luck to manage a team that collected the best talent in baseball year in and year out. Alston inherited the best collection of NL talent at the time and then had the luck to have Koufax/Big D follow him to LA. He still almost managed to screw up Koufax but talent won out.

by meercatjohn on Jan 25, 2010 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

1962 was when I discovered the Dodgers (baseball for that matter). To me Alston was as smooth and steady as my grandfather. Very comforting….

Very nice piece…thanks for sharing.

by WesParker in Iowa on Jan 25, 2010 9:52 AM PST reply actions  

Welcome

Thanks for joining True Blue LA!

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 9:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Frankie Piliere, a former scout with the Rangers, writes for AOL Fanhouse. He has his topp MLB prospects out here and here. Among the rankings

1) Stephen Strasburg SP (Was)
2) Mike Stanton OF (Fla)
3) Desmond Jennings OF (TB)
4) Jason Heyward OF (Atl)
5) Jesus Montero C (NYY)
16) Carlos Santana C (Cle)
42) Josh Bell 3B (Bal)
44) Dee Gordon
100) Chris Withrow

On Gordon, Piliere wrote:

Gordon is an absolute burner on the bases, and he has the look of an elite stolen base threat at the next level. If his offense continues to keep up with his outstanding defense, speed and athleticism, he could very well be the Dodgers’ shortstop of the future. The 21-year-old should begin 2010 at advanced Single-A ball

(No comments for 51-100)

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 9:53 AM PST reply actions  

I sincerely look forward

to the wonderful Dodger Stadium upgrades, made possible by the $2 million that Frank saved by trading away the 16th best prospect in the country. I’d also like to hear someone in the media bring this up to Mr. McC the next time that he tries that, “We’re dedicated to building from within” line.

On a more positive (and serious) note, I was very glad to read this blurb about Devaris Gordon. Maybe in the not-too-distant future, we’ll all be glad we didn’t make that trade for Cliff Lee last year.

by sarcastro9 on Jan 25, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't mean to be a jerk here

but has there ever been on-the-record confirmation that the Dodgers could have kept Santana if they had picked up the $2 million of Blake’s salary? I know it’s been reported as rumor and that the guys doing that reporting have good reputations… and this has been the story on that trade for long enough that maybe we can now non-denials as admissions of truth. You see that much smoke, you call the fire department.

Still, I don’t recall seeing that.

The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy

by Humma Kavula on Jan 25, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions  

I don’t think that is something that the team will ever go on record about. It was reported by Peter Gammons on ESPN when it happened as this:

The reason the Indians were able to get Carlos Santana, a very high-level prospect, in the Casey Blake deal is that the Indians took on all of Blake’s remaining $2 million salary. Several general managers around baseball wonder whether L.A. doesn’t have cash flow problems.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

#’s 16 and 42 break my heart. For what? We give up this and Abreu (who i really like) for why?

by Bluetrain on Jan 25, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree, but let's not go TOO overboard

while these guys haven’t even gotten to the majors yet, George Sherrill and Casey Blake have been key contributors to the Dodgers’ big league club. Think of all the trades over the years, where “prospects” turned out to be All Stars (or better), and the veteran that went in exchange was a complete bust. At least for me, the outrage is as much about the PRINCIPAL of trading away a top-flight prospect instead of a little extra cash as it is about the player himself.

Also, I’m not sure it’s fair to associate Josh Bell with Santana. In addition to the fact that he’s not ranked nearly as high up on the charts, it seems like it wasn’t until after- about FIFTEEN MINUTES after, but after nevertheless- that we started hearing about how great he was. I even remember people here expressing relief that at least it wasn’t Elbert going to Baltimore! I hope we’ll still be able to do that in 2 or 3 years…

by sarcastro9 on Jan 25, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions  

you’re completely correct re principal. And if it had been Elbert i would have been more upset. But the fact is, we dont have a decent 3B prospect (that’s excluding Dewitt who i feel is better suited for 2B).none at all.

by Bluetrain on Jan 25, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Withrow is too low.

by Ivdown on Jan 25, 2010 5:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Most underrated prospect in the game.

by silverwidow on Jan 25, 2010 5:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I like Gordon, but him being 44 and Withrow being 100 is incredibly odd to me, and I bet there are a few comparables to Withrow floating around before him in that top 100. I think i’ll take a look.

by Ivdown on Jan 26, 2010 9:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Jay Jaffe, at his site, Futility Infielder, has a nice and thorough tribute to the passing of Bobby Bragan.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 9:57 AM PST reply actions  

Speaking of thorough

This is awesome, Bob. Thanks for sharing.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 9:57 AM PST reply actions  

Great post Bob

and perhaps the best observation is his adaptable nature. He did handle superstars as an unknown, and rookies as a mentor, finding ways to win. With his 23 years covering my formative years, he is also the first Dodger manager I remember, so at about 25 years of age, my thought was “how can anyone else mamge the Dodgers?”

Also I had forgotten how horrible the ending of 1962 was. I guess that is the right of an 11 year old mind to repress, for I am sure I watched that with horror.

by Gen3blue on Jan 25, 2010 9:59 AM PST reply actions  

Two favorites about Alston

1) He had just one major league plate appearance, in 1936 for the Cardinals, taking over at 1B for HOFer Johnny Mize, who was ejected earlier in the game. Alston struck out, but legend has it that the second strike was a sure home run, curving foul only at the last second (the wonderful kind of story where the ball keeps traveling farther and farther every time it’s retold). How might things have played out if that AB had ended with a HR instead of a K?

2) The time, as manager of the Dodgers, he made everyone on the bus shut up by challenging them to a fight:

The bus was a rather old one, hot, sticky, and narrow. A couple of the Dodger players even had to stand, and some of them began getting all over Lee Scott, the club’s traveling secretary, hollering that everything else on the road was passing them and when was he going to come up with better transportation?

Alston finally got up in the aisle and told all his players in plain words to shut up. “I don’t want to hear another word about this bus,” he said, “and if anyone has something more to say about it, he can step off right now, and we’ll settle it right here.”

My uncles have told me the bus story many times, and I always love it.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 10:58 AM PST reply actions  

It was a shuttle bus from Forbes Field to the Pittsburgh airport.

by Bob Timmermann on Jan 25, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Bob

do you remember when the Dodgers bought their private plane and when they sold it?

by meercatjohn on Jan 25, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the Dodgers bought the plane when they came out to L.A. I think they sold it in the early 1980s.

by Bob Timmermann on Jan 25, 2010 12:17 PM PST reply actions  

That makes sense

though for some reason I’m surprised that Lee Scott was the club traveling secretary back in the Brooklyn days. I remember it being a big deal that the Dodgers had their own plane. Doubt that would have happened under Branch Rickey’s watch.

by meercatjohn on Jan 25, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions  

1952?

There is a photo by Barney Stein from the book “Through a Blue Lens” showing Walter and Peter O’Malley admiring the fuselage of a “team owned” DC-3 with Dodgers stenciled on it. It says circa 1952.

by Bob Hendley on Jan 25, 2010 8:32 PM PST up reply actions  

A few things

First off well done, but there was no need to do digs at Tommy to make the case for Alston. There will be (at least should be as far as I am concerned) room for both managers in the Omally suite.

Second, this is Lords of the Ravine, not Lords of Ebbets Field so pre 1958 does not count. either pennants or WS championships.

Third, anyone who thinks Tommy mishandled pitchers should look long and hard at how Walter handled his pitchers, especially in 1962 playoff, failing to properly use possibly the greatest staff ever assembled.

by MammothDodger on Jan 25, 2010 12:36 PM PST reply actions  

OK, so you can give Alston credit for five pennants and three World Series then.

The 1962 Dodgers pitching staff wasn’t the greatest ever assembled. It was very good, but the Dodgers were third in the NL in ERA that season even while pitching in a big park.

Do you know how many pitchers the Dodgers called up in September of 1962 to help with the stretch drive?

Zero.

by Bob Timmermann on Jan 25, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

The big problem

in 1962 was the Koufax injury, otherwise we’d probably be talking about six pennants and four World Series. At 184 inning you’d think he didn’t miss many games but the fact is he didn’t pitch from July 17 until Sept 21st and when he did pitch in Sept/Oct he was not very effective. Prior to being hurt he had thrown three shutouts in four games, and gave up just one run in the other game.

by meercatjohn on Jan 25, 2010 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

yes that was a little hyperbole on my part

I was not just referring to the 62 season for the staff, they had a 4-5 year run of excellent pitching that Alston lucked into.

The real issue was the playoff, saving Big D for some possible game in the future was a huge blow it.

by MammothDodger on Jan 25, 2010 12:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I did too

And as somebody who questioned whether Lasorda was simply a mascot (in the thread supporting Lasorda) I can’t help but think a voter would need to consider voting for either Lasorda or Alston.

by Michael White on Jan 25, 2010 12:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I've been struggling with that myself

When I vote for 10 guys, I am leaning toward 4 hitters, 4 pitchers, plus Alston and Lasorda. I’m having a tough time reconciling with myself including both managers though. If I only choose one, Alston will get the call.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 12:59 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

You don't have to vote for 10 guys

you could only vote for one. You can’t vote for more then ten guys.

by meercatjohn on Jan 25, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I could see voting for less than ten.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Jan 25, 2010 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I know

But I’m pretty sure I’ll have at least 10 I want to vote for. I pretty much have 7 spots for sure, and 5-6 guys are fighting for 3 spots.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 1:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I have two for sure

but I don’t see a case for Garvey over Cey or Lopes or Cey over Garvey so I expect to not vote for any of them. Can you really separate what Big D did in LA over what Sutton or Fernando did? Actually as the cases are made I’m looking more at the fact we have had a lot of damn good ballplayers play in Los Angeles but only two “elite” talents and they are so far above the rest I’m not really inclined to include others with them.

Interesting in that nobody has written about either of them yet.

by meercatjohn on Jan 25, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I still have a lot of thought to put into this. It will be a tough call.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Remember, I am still due to post an argument for Al Campanis. You may need a spot for him.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Jan 25, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t think he has the necessities it takes to be on my first ballot.

Too soon?

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 1:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Eerily similar to my working title.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Jan 25, 2010 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I would vote for Lasorda over Smokey

and it is not close to me. I may have a hard time figuring out which person was the better manager given the personnel they had to work with, there should be no question that Tommy Lasorda has meant more to the Los Angeles Dodgers over his career then Walter Alston did. As Bob pointed out, once Walter retired his career with the Dodgers was over, with Tommy he simply kept doing what he always did but instead of doing it from the clubhouse he did it from upstairs. He is the most beloved Dodger, just check out his ovations. If you don’t like him fine, but you can’t deny what he has meant to the organization for the last 36 years.

by meercatjohn on Jan 25, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I finished reading Joe P.'s book on the Reds

And Sparky Anderson was known as someone who had 4 favorites (Rose, Morgan, Bench and Perez), pissed off his pitchers, thought Foster needed to toughen up and Ken Griffey, Sr. wasn’t his biggest fan.

I say all this because now 30+ years after he left the Reds, he is not really attached to them at all, (managing the Tigers to a W.S. title goes a long way towards that), but he was a familar sight in the Reds dugout during those battles in 70’s.

by bhsportsguy on Jan 25, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

He was a manager?

I only remember him being a color guy and never being able to understand his mumblings.

by meercatjohn on Jan 25, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Both were great for different reasons, but Tommy gwould get my vote also

by Bluetrain on Jan 25, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Personally, I have no problem considering both managers. Alston managed in LA for 19 seasons, Lasorda for 19 1/2. Alston won 3 WS and 2 other NL titles, Lasorda won 2 WS and 2 other NL titles. Both are in the HOF as managers.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Jan 25, 2010 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Both managers had 5-6 years of great teams

Alston – 62-66, Lasorda – 77-83. Lasorda beat the A’s with his outlier team (1988) whereas Alston’s last pennant winning team in 1974 couldn’t catch a break against the defending 2-time champs but the core of that team set up the early years for Tommy.

by bhsportsguy on Jan 25, 2010 1:29 PM PST reply actions  

I just have a hard time

defining the 62-66 teams as great. They had Koufax, take him away and they are a good team as they proved in 62 when he was hurt, or the laughing stock of baseball in 67 after he retired. On July 17, 1962 when Koufax went down they were 62 -33, by the end of the year they were 103 – 63 a record of 41 – 30. It was not just Sandy of course, when he was pitching the bullpen was not used, so when he left for two months, they not only missed his pitching but the bullpen got hammered when his replacements could not produce his innings thus having an overworked bullpen by late Sept. His injury had ramifications that could only be felt by a four man rotation.

In 62 they had what I’d call a great team, but other then that it was as much a one man show from 63-66 as you are going to find in baseball when pennants were decided in the last week of Sept.

by meercatjohn on Jan 25, 2010 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

From 63 til 66 Don Dysdale was pretty darn good. 164 starts in four years with an era under 3. It wasnt quite a one man show..

by Bluetrain on Jan 25, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I refuse to read Bob's post

until a hardback version is published.
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Jan 25, 2010 1:35 PM PST reply actions  

I didn’t realize the New Jersey Nets were 3-40.

Craaaaazy.

by silverwidow on Jan 25, 2010 1:53 PM PST reply actions  

Yup, they are terrible

Lopez can play, but everybody else is awful.

by Michael White on Jan 25, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah devin harris is awful

the nets just suck in general… frmo lopez to the coaching sstaff… lopez wouldnt put up any big numbers had he been playing for a team that was good… putting up good numbers on a bad team

by matthewmafa on Jan 25, 2010 2:00 PM PST up reply actions  

That might be true

but Lopez is a player. Harris has shocked me with how bad he’s been, at the time I thought the Nets had made a great trade.

by meercatjohn on Jan 25, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Lopez or Bynum?

I like Lopez’s game a little bit more. The stats are pretty close, and Matthew’s point probably comes into play here, if Bynum was the only guy on his team, would his stats be better than Lopez?

by Michael White on Jan 25, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah

when gasol wasnt platying in the begining of the season… bynum averaged 20 points and 10 rebounds… i think if gasol wasnt on the lakers.. his average would be pretty close to that still..

by matthewmafa on Jan 25, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I think Lopez is pretty good

I don’t watch the Nets much, but he seems to have a pretty complete game. His post moves are pretty sound for his age, and he has a nice jumper to compliment it. His skill set and his size makes him a very solid player.

by Michael White on Jan 25, 2010 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

yup

hes good… but i wouldnt have him over bynum… lopez has been the center of a team who has been outrebounded an NBA record 25+ straight games… unbelieveable stat… considering that boone was starting half of those games and yi was starting the other half (two 7 footers.) i think lopez is a vital reason the nets get outrebounded EVERY game..

by matthewmafa on Jan 25, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Lopez is averaging the most rebounds per game on NJN at 9.4

which is pretty good. Comparable to Kaman actually.

The problem is nobody else can rebound on that team. Yi is averaging 7.0 and by watching him play I’m surprised he gets that many. Boone is at 5.2— that’s what you expect from a SF.

by Michael White on Jan 25, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

imo

averaging the most rebounds doesnt mean anything…

bynum at his best… boxes out his guy and lets someone else get the rebound.. lopez avering 9 rebounds to lead his team just means he is the biggest player on his team playing a lot of minutes..

by matthewmafa on Jan 25, 2010 2:20 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

In that context, it seems both of us are ill-equipped to compare Lopez and Bynum. I believe you are a Laker fan, so you’ve watched Bynum a ton. I saw Lopez play exactly once this year. So if we’re basically saying that the stats are irrelevant (and it is basketball so I get your point that there is much more nuance here) then how are we to know exactly what is going on in New Jersey? It screams small sample size, particularly if we are ignoring the statistics year to date.

by Michael White on Jan 25, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Per 36 minutes

The Rebounding Nets

Boone 10.2
Humphries 10.2 (only played 141 minutes though)
Lopez 9.3
Yi 7.5
Williams 7.3
Najera 6.7

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

The 1972-1973 Philadelphia 76ers finished with the all-time worst record in the NBA, at 9-73. Through 43 games, they were 4-39. But they were at the start of a 20-game losing streak. They were 4-58 through 62 games. I have to figure the Nets will run into a few victories, just by accident, in their next 19 games.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

The 1986-1987 Clippers finished 12-70. They were 6-37 through 43 games. That team actually started 3-3, then finished 9-67. Ouch.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah

I knew eventually this would turn in to Clippers chat. :)
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Jan 25, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

The 1997-98 Nuggets (finished 11-71) were also 3-40, but won their 44th game.

The 1992-93 Mavs also finished 11-71, but were 4-39 at this point.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

will the nets win 10 games?

with lopez YI and harris.. i would put my money on over..

and then next year they will get john wall and persuade lebron to come over …

wall PG harris SG LEBRON YI and LOPEZ… that would be a pretty nice team

by matthewmafa on Jan 25, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Good quote here from Steve Perrin

who writes the Clipper blog for SB Nation. He addressed this when we were about to play the Nets.

Chasing infamy. It seems like the NBA has a team ‘on pace’ to have the worst record in history every few seasons. But none of them have gotten there in the 37 years since the Sixers set the record. Last season the Thunder were 3-29 – they finished 23-59. The team I really thought might have a chance was the 97-98 Nuggets. They were truly terrible. But even they managed to win 11 games. That team was 2-38 after 40 games, but they won 6 of their final 19 to avoid the record. There are a couple of reasons that these teams tend to win enough in the second half to reach double digits in wins. For one thing, since they tend to be incredibly young teams, they simply benefit from the experience of the season. In other words, they get a little better. More importantly, in the latter stages of the season, they run into equaly unmotivated teams and pick up some wins. The Nets will no doubt win some games in March and April and the Sixers record will withstand another challenge. This team seems a little too talented to be the worst of all time.

by meercatjohn on Jan 25, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

You like Yi?

I think he is awful. A very bad basketball player.

by Michael White on Jan 25, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

yi

since he has come back from the injury he has been pretty good if i recall correctly…

hes not a bad player but hes talented… he went number 5 in the draft and can shoot for a 7 footer.

by matthewmafa on Jan 25, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

èr èr èr

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Jan 25, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Very good

… was wondering if anyone would pick up on that. :)
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Jan 25, 2010 6:31 PM PST up reply actions  

By contrast

1995-96 Bulls were 41-3 to start their season

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Loretta retirement official

from Marty Caswell of XX 1090 AM radio in San Diego:

Mark Loretta has officially retired- joining the Padres front office as Special Assistant to Baseball Opps

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 2:10 PM PST reply actions  

Evidently

we had used up our available "special assistant " slots.

by meercatjohn on Jan 25, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions  

lol

why didnt we sign loretta damn what a mistake by ned..

by matthewmafa on Jan 25, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I gotta figure just by rearranging some furniture the Dodgers could turn Jamie’s office into a shared space for at least 4-5 more special assistants :)

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 2:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I gotta think Ausmus, once he retires, he will start a coaching/managing career.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

If I were a Lord of Baseball

I would call Doug Glanville and ask if he has any desire to be involved with the game as a coach/manager. Guy is clearly intelligent.

The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy

by Humma Kavula on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I have really enjoyed his columns at the NYT

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 3:07 PM PST up reply actions  

nothing against Ausmus, but i hope he retires. I’m hoping for Ellis to back up Martin..Age is a factor…

by Bluetrain on Jan 25, 2010 5:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I keep wanting a backup that Torre will actually start a sufficient number of games so that Martin isn’t beaten down by the end of the season. I suspect this is why Mike Scioscia (over)limits Napoli’s starts to about 100 a season.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Jan 25, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Speaking of basketball

I really enjoyed this tweet by the Laker blog, Forum Blue & Gold:

For the record, Obama did not take Derek Fisher off the dribble and get to the rack for the lay up. But you know he could have

Hilarious.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 3:17 PM PST reply actions  

A mistake. Everyone knows you stifle Obama by getting his supposed teammates to pass the ball continually amongst one another, known as the filibuster offense.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Jan 25, 2010 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Macier Izturis signed a 3-year deal with the Angels. No idea on the money, but the arb numbers filed were $2.3m-$3m. That buys out two FA years

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 3:20 PM PST reply actions  

Worth $10m total. Seems like a good deal to me.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

for a utlity player?

aybar at short and kendrick at 2nd?

by matthewmafa on Jan 25, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I gotta figure they’ll find a way to get him 500 PA all over the place.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

By “good deal”, do you mean for both parties?

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Jan 25, 2010 6:08 PM PST up reply actions  

These will be his age 29-31 seasons, which should be peak years, so maybe so. Might even be in the Angels favor if he really is a league average hitter (97 OPS+ over the last three years cumulative) to go with the positive UZR/150 ratings – small sample size warning – at 2B, 3B and SS.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Jan 25, 2010 6:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, it could end up being a very good deal for the Angels. I don’t see a likelihood of this really killing the team.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 6:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Those salaries per year are probably in the $2.5M – $4.5M range. One contract like that should never kill the Angels – if it goes bad, it’s like one dandruff flake on their black blazer; just flick it away. Looks like nothing compared to what they are paying GMJ to play for the Mets.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Jan 25, 2010 7:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m anxious to hear possible terms on a Mauer 10 year deal. Hopefully he gets $170M at least. The man is going to be a legend.

by silverwidow on Jan 25, 2010 3:39 PM PST reply actions  

Agreed

Possessing the only 3 AL batting titles ever by a catcher is a pretty cool little nugget. To bring this back on topic, somewhat, let’s look at Mauer vs a lock for the O’Malley Sutie:

Joe Mauer: 2994 PA, .327/.408/.483, 136 OPS+
Piazza -LA: 3017 PA. .331/.394/.572, 159 OPS+

Mauer had a 170 OPS+ in his 2009 MVP season, a figure bested by Piazza twice (185 in his MVP season of 1997, and 172 in 1995) .

Of course, Mauer is miles ahead of Piazza defensively, likely more than enough to make up the offensive gap IMO, but I just wanted to reiterate how awesome a hitter Mr. Piazza was.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

FWIW, using WARP3 over at Baseball Prospectus, Piazza through 1997 bests Joe Mauer, 37.2 to 34.5.

In order of best seasons:

Piazza: 9.6, 8.1, 7.3, 7.3, 5.1, -0.2
Mauer: 8.8, 7.5, 7.2, 4.8, 4.8, 1.4

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Also those numbers don't account for

The Twins can always move Mauer to DH a few times of year.

by bhsportsguy on Jan 25, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions  

How do the numbers stack up

Looking at what both players did through their age 26 (or however old Mauer was in 2009) season(s)?
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Jan 25, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Through 26

Joe Mauer: 2994 PA, .327/.408/.483, 136 OPS+
Piazza – 26: 1592 PA, .322/.375/.557, 151 OPS+

WARP3
Mauer: 34.5 (8.8, 7.5, 7.2, 4.8, 4.8, 1.4)
Piazza: 20.3 (8.1, 7.3, 5.1, -0.2)

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 4:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I think that is the

proper way to look at it.
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Jan 25, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

When Mauer kicked our ass in 2006, Little called him a “good” hitter. He was probably the best in the world at that point.

by silverwidow on Jan 25, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

McCann had a good case in 2006

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

not only is maur 100000 times better defensivly then piazza

he doesnt have the advantage that piazza did… by taking those you know whats

by matthewmafa on Jan 25, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

You have no way of knowing that either, neither, or both took anything. All you do know is that Mauer is tested for things than Piazza never was.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Jan 25, 2010 6:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I think its a bad deal in the sense that

No player should get that long a contract, it is just not a good business decision. Also, unless he continues to play catcher, his value is not going to be the same.

by bhsportsguy on Jan 25, 2010 4:04 PM PST reply actions  

of course, that needs to be taken into account.
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Jan 25, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah, I agree

that’s why it’s so funny to me when people scream about the Yankees “buying championships”. Few people realize or remember how futile Steinbrenner’s attempts at “buying championships” were in the 1980’s, and while his methods (and madness) have morphed somewhat over the years, he is still the king of overdoing it. (Though it’s Let’s see how dominant the Yankees look when A-Rod, Burnett and/or Sabathia are all in decline with 3 or 4 years on their contracts (at least).

But yeah, getting back to Mauer, 10 years is ridiculous, even for a player of his caliber. Instead of talking about salary caps, how about a limit in the number of YEARS players can be locked in?

by sarcastro9 on Jan 25, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Not sure what a limit on years would do for competitive balance. It’s not like 7+ year deals are running rampant. If a team wants to take that risk, it should be able to do so.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually, that would probably serve to further inflate contracts, if they were being renegotiated every 3 years and players didn’t have as much certainty, the top flight players would ask for more upfront.

by Michael White on Jan 25, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah, I was just throwing it out there, but

whenever these long contracts are given out, they a) rarely work out for the duration (there are exceptions, of course), b) set a precedent for a comparable player to demand the same thing, with only a handful of teams willing/able to make the sacrifice of guaranteeing too many years.

I dunno, guys. It just bugs me to see guys like Payton Manning and Brett Favre (until recently) playing in the same “small” market year after year, where if football were run like baseball, you KNOW the message boards would be filled with posts about how they need to be traded to the Giants or Patriots. I freely admit to not knowing what the answer is, but I wish we’d hear more about potential solutions that don’t involve salary caps…

by sarcastro9 on Jan 25, 2010 4:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Baseball could add 4 more playoff teams, and a lot of those concerns would go away.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t want to do that, of course, but I think that is the biggest difference between baseball and football. Well, maybe other than the fact the nobody cares when football players take steroids.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Would the 1st round be a best of 3 or 5?

And would the Division Series stay as-is or move to 7 games?

by silverwidow on Jan 25, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Probably

To be equivalent to football, baseball would need two more teams, four divisions in each league and two WC per league.

Top two division winners get a bye in each league.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

OK, but the “Wild Card” series would have to be a Best of 3 or something, otherwise, the postseason would go well into November.

by silverwidow on Jan 25, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Yep

and, as I said, I am not in favor of adding playoff teams. I’m OK with two expansion teams and four divisions in each league, but not more playoff teams.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Correct me if I'm wrong

but small market Florida has 2 more championships in the last two decades than large market Chicago Cubs has in the past 100 years.

The NBA has a salary cap and there is absolutely no parity. NFL is king of parity. MLB is somewhere in the middle. I’m cool with it.

by Michael White on Jan 25, 2010 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Jayson Stark pointed that out, too

The main problem with baseball seems to be the constant shifting of rosters, largely due teams claiming that they can no longer “afford” certain players after a few years. Whether the excuse is valid or not I have no idea, but that has been the way business has been conducted regardless. It seems that a lot of these major league rosters have greater turnover than your typical college team! Fortunately, that’s one thing that actually hasn’t been the case with the Dodgers in recent years, though we’ll see if that changes as the kids grow up…

by sarcastro9 on Jan 25, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I was going to write

a long response to your post, but after the first paragraph the topic became too depressing and I had to hit the “Cancel” button. Sigh.
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Jan 25, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions  

meant to insert

(Though it’s more his sons at this point, I’m sure.)

hit return too early.

by sarcastro9 on Jan 25, 2010 4:24 PM PST reply actions  

I anticipate Wang won't be a Dodger

RT @HighCheese: Chien Ming Wang’s agent to Ken Rosenthal: "We’re anticipating an MLB offer with a substantial guarantee and substantial upside."

by Eric Stephen on Jan 25, 2010 5:57 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Talk is cheap. Show me the money.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Jan 25, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions  

alston

I am 60 yrs old-I wasnt old enough for the Jackie Robinson ers- but was for the 1959 Dodgers
To this day Sandy Koufax is my all time favorite player and easily one of the greatest pitchers ever! Lasorda was a great manager but he always had the horses—Walter Alston was the greatest Dodger manager ever—as his record clearly shows-However as always it is hard to compare different eras—there were only 16 teams thru much of Alstons time and no free agents-its tuff to compareas with Joe Torre also a great manager-but remember Torre managed 3 other teams before the Yankees and Dodgers and never did anythingCasey Stengel also managed 2 other teams before the Yankees and was considered a joke-In fact some say Joe Damaggio retired early because of Stengal-Anyway I still think Alston is still the greatest Dodger manager ever—Lasorda was a great manager but also a great dodger booster thats what has also helped him to the Dodger fans

by spc7@verizon.net on Feb 1, 2010 4:17 PM PST reply actions  

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2012 Dodgers Payroll

Italics denote estimates
Pos No Player 2012 Salary
C 17 Ellis $500,000 team control
1B 7 Loney $6,375,000
2B 14 Ellis $2,500,000
3B 5 Uribe $8,000,000
SS 9 Gordon $485,000 team control
LF 21 Rivera $4,000,000
CF 27 Kemp $10,000,000
RF 16 Ethier $10,950,000

IF/OF 6 Hairston $2,250,000
OF 10 Gwynn $850,000
2B/3B 3 Kennedy $800,000
C 18 Treanor $850,000
IF 12 Sellers $485,000 team control

SP 22 Kershaw $6,000,000
SP 58 Billingsley $9,000,000
SP 29 Lilly $12,000,000
SP 35 Capuano $3,000,000
SP 44
Harang $3,000,000

CL 54 Guerra $485,000 team control
RHP 74
Jansen $500,000 team control
RHP 55 Guerrier $4,750,000
RHP 60 Coffey $1,000,000
RHP 66 MacDougal $650,000
LHP 57 Elbert $485,000 team control
RHP 36
Hawksworth $500,000 team control

TJ 41 De La Rosa $485,000 team control



Manny $8,087,432 deferred


Andruw $3,375,000 deferred


Pierre $3,050,000 deferred
Furcal $3,000,000 deferred
Kuroda $2,000,000 deferred
Garland $1,500,000 option buyout
Blake $1,250,000 option buyout

Totals
$112,162,432

For more detailed information, click here.

Players on 40-man roster used as roster
fillers until moves are made.

Current 40-man roster count: 40
(not including Belisario)

2012 Non-Roster Invitees

No Player Age*
63 Jose Ascanio rhp
27
61 Alberto Castillo lhp
36
56 Matt Chico lhp
29
33 John Grabow lhp
33
59 Angel Guzman rhp
30
47 Wil Ledezma lhp
31
72 Shane Lindsay rhp
27
62 Fernando Nieve rhp 29
73 Scott Rice lhp 30
70 Will Savage rhp
27
71 Ryan Tucker rhp
25
28 Jamey Wright rhp
37

30 Josh Bard c 34
82 Griff Erickson c 24
81 Matt Wallachc 26
67 Jeff Baisley 3b/1b 29
65 Luis Cruz ss/2b 28
37 Josh Fields 3b 29
64 Lance Zawadzki if 27
56 Cory Sullivan of 32

*Age on June 30, 2012

NRI count: 20

For more info, click here.


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