Randy Johnson will pitch no more
by meercatjohn on Jan 6, 2010 8:48 AM PST
in News
Email
PrintThe greatest LHP of our generation hung up his spikes last night when he announced his retirement. Many of us never got to see Sandy Koufax, some of us got to see Steve Carlton but all of us got to see Randy Johnson dominate the landscape over the last 20 years. We were all lucky to see Randy at his best unless you are only 10 years old and we could go on for days enumerating his accomplishments. Here is just a snapshop via MLB.com's Chris Haft:
The progression of Johnson's achievements described a near-continuous ascent. He gathered numerous accolades, including five Cy Young Awards and 10 All-Star selections. His statistical dossier bulges with notable accomplishments: 4,875 strikeouts, topped only by Nolan Ryan's 5,714 on the all-time list; a 303-166 career record, which made him the 24th pitcher in Major League history to exceed the 300 plateau; and two no-hitters, the second of which was a perfect game at Atlanta's Turner Field on May 18, 2004.
I have no doubt that Randy is one of the greatest LHP in the history of baseball but comparing between era's is a slippery slope. If you read any of the thread below you see that Eric and I were having a bit of fun with Koufax and Johnson and what they might have accomplished in each others era.
When it comes to postseason play I'm particularly impressed with what Sandy Koufax did in 1965 in what I consider the greatest three days of postseason pitching not in the dead ball era. (how many pitchers started 3 games in the world series when the first start was the 2nd game?) Still what Randy Johnson did in 2001 to ensure a Diamondback World Championship will be remembered by all of us who saw it. Here are more highlights that Eric researched yesterday:
For instance, Koufax’s entire case rests on his peak, and oh what a peak it was (1962-1966). Let’s look at how he compares with Grove and Johnson.
Best 5-Year stretch
Unit – 175 ERA+ (1998-2002)
Grove – 173 ERA+ (1935-1939)
Grove – 172 ERA+ (1928-1932)
Koufax – 167 ERA+ (1962-1966)
Unit – 162 ERA+ (1993-1997, although he missed significant time in 1996)Basically, Grove and Johnson each had Koufax’s peak, plus another 5-year run just as good or nearly as good, something Koufax of course never got.
Unit also ended the 2001 playoffs with 5 straight wins (one in relief), allowing 4 runs in his final 38.1 IP, with 7 BB and 43 K
Those are just some of the stats but how about the legend. The Big Unit was aptly named, a gangling 6'10 with long arms and legs he simply whipped the ball to the plate. Left handed hitters had little chance and one time during an all-star appearance John Kruk had some fun with it. Check out this Video of that all-star at bat.
He not only was a great pitcher but a great baseball character. Not much seems to be floating around on the web right now that really gives a look into the man. If you find any good stories please link them in this thread and I'll add them up here.
128 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Didn’t realize how poor that 1995 Seattle Mariners pitching staff was other than Randy Johnson. Johnson won the Cy-Young that year with a 192 ERA+. Otherwise, the only above average pitcher on that staff was Belcher with an ERA+ of 106. That team could hit though, Griffey in his prime playing CF, Jay Beuhner with a .909 OPS and Edgar DHing with a 1.107 OPS. Tino Martinez playign first had an OPS of .920. The team also featured young up and coming shortstop Alex Rodriguez.
Seattle ultimately lost to a team that could also hit the cover off the ball, the 95 Cleveland Indians with Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Albert Belle and Eddie Murray.
I loved those late-90s Mariners and Indians
And they all just ran into the Yankee buzzsaw.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
The overall quality of the American League
was really unbelievable during that time.
What a couple of great collections of talent!
That Indians team was just ridiculous. Belle was the real MVP, with the only 50 double, 50 HR season ever (in a 144-game season even), plus in addition to the guys you mentioned they also had Lofton, and a still productive Carlos Baerga. They also had Brian Giles, David Bell, and Herb Perry see some time as well. Just a stockpile of talent.
Orel was still Orel too. It’s a shame Jose Mesa blew a save in Game 7 two years later; otherwise we would look back differently on those teams.
Seriously
Baseball is a funny game. Those two teams were sooo good, but who came out of the late-90s/early 2000s with two titles? Your Florida Marlins.
Not saying the Marlins weren’t good. They were good.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
MLB Network
Had a 95 year in review a couple months ago, and spent a lot of the show on the Indians. They were an amazing group. There was also some Nomo.
What a difference a year makes
In 2008, True Blue LA had a grand total of 8981 comments. In 2009, four different people had more than that, and the site had 166,211 comments, a 1751% increase.
Our most prolific commenters of 2009
Me: 25,087
Tripon: 12,862 (also had 35 Fan Posts and 80 Fan Shots!)
shaqfor3: 11,182
Phil: 10,008
mwhite06: 7,558
Bluetrek: 5,863
Brendan: 5,440
(El Lay) Dave: 5,158
matthewmafa: 4,635
and i joined in the middle of 09!!!
wow i coulda been number 1!!!
SCRATCH number 1
i didnt see the 25,000……..
maybe number 2
Am I imagining
or didn’t Larry Walker have an All-Star at bat against RJ similar to Kruk’s, but Walker finished the at bat right handed with his helmet on backwards?
Thanks
I had someone tell me I was on crack when I mentioned that. He said I was thinking of the Kruk AB you posted.
Refer that someone to MLB.com:
The sellout crowd was treated to a highlight for the ages when Colorado Rockies representative, Larry Walker, stepped in to face intimidating lefty, Randy Johnson. Walker, who led the majors with a .398 average, backed out of an Interleague Game against Johnson earlier in the season, but there was no hiding this time.
In a scene reminiscent of his 1993 performance against John Kruk, Johnson threw the first pitch over Walker’s head. In response, Walker laughed, turned his helmet backward moved to the right side of the plate, and took ball two. Walker eventually drew a walk from the Seattle fireballer.
I can’t find video though.
I posted in the last thread ESPN writers HOF ballots
Here is the link again http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4795616
Also on ATH yesterday, Mariotti said he left his entire ballot blank because none of the players were “first ballot worthy” I will never understand that argument.
I would really love to hear the argument
against Blyleven. I don’t get it. Is it just his record?
Right
The argument, such as it is, is this: “Sure, he was good for a long time, but never great.” They believe that he is the Harold Baines of pitchers.
I don’t usually like to reduce my responses to ad hominem attacks, but I can’t help it here: that argument isn’t even worth a load of donkey crap, because at least the donkey crap can grow things in your garden.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
1970-1979 ERA+ (minimum 1000 IP)
Tom Seaver 138
Jim Palmer 137
Bert Blyleven 130
1970-1979 Ks
Nolan Ryan 2,678
Seaver 2,304
Carlton 2,097
Blyleven 2,082
Blyleven was great in the 1970s. And he topped it off in the 1980s with another 2000+ IP with a 113 ERA+, which was 13th in that period (out of 99 pitchers), and higher than Jack Morris’s 109 ERA+ (although Morris did pitch about 365 more innings).
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
Re: The argument against Blyleven
Heyman likes to lead this charge:
My contention regarding Blyleven is that almost no one viewed him as a Hall of Famer during his playing career, and that is borne out by the 17 percent of the vote he received in his first year of eligibility in 1998, followed by 14 percent the next year. Blyleven obviously had an excellent and extremely lengthy career that looks a lot better to many with a decade to review it. And it doesn’t hurt that he’s the favorite of the Internet lobby.
Only four times in 22 seasons did he receive Cy Young votes (he was third twice, fourth and seventh once), only twice did he make the All-Star team and only twice did he win more than 17 games. I tend not to vote for players who I see as great compilers rather than great players, which is why I don’t see Lee Smith or Baines as Hall of Famers, either. Baines and Blyleven compiled similarly in some key areas, with Blyleven finishing with four percent short of 300 victories at 287, and Baines four percent short of 3,000 hits with 2,866. And actually, a case could be made that Baines had more greatness, as he made six All-Star teams, three times the number of Blyleven.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/01/04/heyman.hall/index.html?eref=sihp
by Michael White on Jan 6, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
This makes me angry.
Angry enough to, like, kick a very small, very cute kitten.
That article screamed for FJM
Morris got 22% of the vote his first year, but that didn’t deter Heyman.
And RE: Cy Youngs…BBWAA votes on CYA, doesn’t appreciate Blyleven, then when it comes time for the HOF, also voted by BBWAA, the writers refer to their own history of judgment as facts for not voting for him. Weird.
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
Can you tweet Ken Tremendous
maybe he can stash that one for the next time FJM puts something together.
Right. The best way to determine greatness; the number of times 8 year olds punch your name into a ballot at the stadium.
by Michael White on Jan 6, 2010 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
Also worth noting
Morris made five all-star teams, not six.
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 10:20 AM PST up reply actions
He didn’t vote for Tim Raines. Why not?
I’d like to see Smith continue to get enough votes to stay on the ballot for the maximum 15 years (thanks Eric!). We have no idea what 478 career saves really means from a historic perspective yet. I tend to think it’s a little premature to make a permanent decision on many/most closers. Maybe that is something that the veteran’s committee will be better equipped to address, although they are known to do inane things.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
My most memorable RJ Moment
Was ditching soccer practice in 95 to go watch the AL West tiebreaker. Day game. He dominated the Angels.
I still don’t agree with the final strike on Tim Salmon, but Johnson was amazing that day.
The lasting image I have of that game was Mark Langston just staring intently, seemingly burning a hole in Rex Hudler after Langston’s throwing error.
Charles Barkley is hosting SNL this week. I doubt there will be anything as good as the Barney video from way back when, but I will still watch.
Jon Hamm is hosting on January 30. Hamm was great last time he hosted.
My favorite RJ Memory
is Edwin Jackson beating him on Edwin’s birthday and debut at the BOB.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ARI/ARI200309090.shtml
Bummer that he will not be pitching in the BOB most of the time.
Randy was oh so close to being exactly double Edwin’s age (EJ turned 20, RJ turned 40 one day later)
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
I Have That Game On VHS Tape
…when it was announced Jackson was going to be making his MLB debut, back in 2003, I asked an L.A.-based Dodger fan who was a regular poster at the Fanhome Dodger message board to tape the game and mail it to me, and I offered him to pay him for his costs and a bit extra for his trouble. He said he would do it for free (a nice guy, he was) but I sent him money anyway. Over the years I have watched that game SO many times. Edwin Jackson — another one that got away.:(
by CanuckDodger on Jan 6, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
Meercatjohn:
This is Phil Gurnee, correct?
I don’t have the equipment to do that, but I know somebody who MIGHT be able to do that. I can ask him. If he can’t, or won’t, do you want me to inquire at a shop how much they would charge to do the job? If the guy I know can (will) do it, I won’t charge you anything, but if I have to go to a professional and pay him — well, I hope you will understand when I say that I would appreciate you sending me the money the shop will charge in advance.
by CanuckDodger on Jan 6, 2010 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
One of my favorite
games, it was just a great setup, and then for him to do so well and beat the incomparable RJ at home. Movies are made with less stuff then that.
MLB debut vs the reigning four-time Cy Young Award winner, on his 20th birthday, one day shy of Johnson’s 40th, Dodgers entered the day two games behind the wild card. Too good of a story. Not to mention the “Major League” quality lineup put out by the Dodgers that day:
Izturis SS
LoDuca C
Green RF
Beltre 3B
Coomer 1B
Cabrera 2B
Kinkade LF
Ruan CF
Jackson P
Kinkade got hit by a pitch for the 14th time that day. He ended the season with an amazing 16 HBP in 191 PA. Talk about crowding the plate!
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
Only four times has a Dodger have ever gotten hit more than Kinkade did in 2003, and three were at the turn of the century, and none with as few PA as Mike Kinkade:
Rk Player PA HBP Year
1 Hughie Jennings 505 20 1900
2 Hughie Jennings 267 19 1899
3 Dan McGann 259 19 1899
4 Alex Cora 484 18 2004
5 Dan Brouthers 688 16 1892
6 Darby OBrien 644 16 1889
7 Lou Johnson 518 16 1965
8 Mike Kinkade 191 16 2003
9 Bill Dahlen 514 15 1899
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/6/2010.
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
Turn of which century
in the case of Alex Cora? Same one as Kinkade, no?
I’m guessing since “three of the four” ahead of Kinkade were in 1899 and 1900, it’s pretty clear.
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
I always expect to see Ron Hunt on such lists, but he played only one season for L.A. in 1967, before starting to really crowd the plate and leading the NL in HBP in each of the remaining seven seasons of his career (and the majors for all but the last of those), including the single-season record of 50 in 1971, 43% more than the second-place hit batsman, Don Baylor who endured 35 one year. Of the thirty seasons ever for a batter to be hit 24 or more times, Hunt has six of them. The most bruised batter of all time is Craig Biggio who was struck 285 times, but Hunt had 243 in just under half the PAs (6158 vs. 12503). (All number courtesy of baseball-reference.com)
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Coomer the Boomer!
Man, what a lineup. That’s back when it was more entertaining to follow the prospects than the big club.
More Joe Posnanski
The problem with slamming the point home is that, after a while, people will simply tune you out. I think what people really mean when they say "I don’t go by numbers," is "I don’t go by YOUR numbers." And who can blame them? Numbers can be presented so many ways, folded into so many origami shapes. And the people who present the numbers usually present them with some sort of agenda. I do too.
If those guys just don't submit ballots, does Bert make it? Does Alomar?
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Jan 6, 2010 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
No. Blyleven = 74.9%.
400/534.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Jan 6, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
Gonna be a big class next year
Blyleven, Alomar, and Bagwell will all make it for sure.
Plus:
Palmeiro… well, we’ll see
Kevin Brown will get a lot of support… if you think Schilling and Mussina are HOFers then Brown is, too
Larry Walker and John Olerud also on the ballot.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
I like Brown, but he won’t get more than like 20% of the vote. Book it.
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
That's fair enough.
I’d vote for all three, Mussina, Schilling, and Brown, but that’s me. I can see leaving all of them out.
I guess if I had to predict, I’d say that the bloody sock* gets Schilling in and the other two are out. But who knows?
*I’m being facetious. He had some very memorable postseason performances, and that should count for something.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Jan 6, 2010 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
I would vote for all three as well, but I think really only Schilling gets in of the three.
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
Same with Walker, I think. It’s going to be very difficult to judge how much of his career is attributable to Coors when it was COORS and how much is a great hitter. It’ll be interesting to see where different minds come down on that.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Jan 6, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
I'm a solid yes on Brown
He’ll get some support from the “ring in a box” crowd. Plus, the all-star appearances, etc.
by Michael White on Jan 6, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
John Kruk was just on Sportcenter
Almost had a heart attack yelling about Alomar not getting in…
I believe that nobody ever will get 100%.
I thought if there was anybody who might do it, it would have been Cal Ripken.
1) 100% legit HOFer
2) The Streak
3) Meme of “Redefined the position of shortstop”/“Paved the way for A-Rod”
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Jan 6, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
Frickin’ Babe Ruth didn’t get 100% (215 of 226). Henry Aaron, 406 of 415. Wilie Mays, 409 of 432. Ted Williams 282 of 302.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
what a joke...
who are those 11 who didnt vote for babe ruth??? i bet they aint having fun right now where they are..
the person arguemtn against not voting greg maddux in..
he didnt strike out enough
and someone will bring up his postseason record and hold that against him, too.
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
yeah its stupid..
but the important thing is he will get in
He's a lock for me
Career OPS+156
521 Home Runs
A ring in a box. The perception of being clean. I think he’s a first ballot guy.
by Michael White on Jan 6, 2010 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
500 home runs ain't what it used to be
I would vote for him still, but I don’t think he’s a lock for first ballot.
But you don’t have a vote. Also, he had all of 124 PA for the 2005 White Sox, so I don’t know if he gets that extra credit.
Should he be a 1st ballot guy? Of course.
Will he be? I seriously doubt it.
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 11:42 AM PST up reply actions
so i dont know if he gets that extra credit?
what do you mean?
What he means is
You get extra credit for leading your team to a title. If you’re a role player on a team that wins the WS… well, nobody takes away your ring, just that it shouldn’t be the thumb on the scale, if a player needs it, to vote for him for the HOF.
Not that Thomas needs the thumb on the scale, of course.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Jan 6, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
For the “ring in a box.” It was a reply to mwhite06.
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
Ya, I was trying to put my Heyman hat on. While Thomas might now have contributed on the field for the 05 White Sox, his proven veteran leadership helped a scrappy bunch of South Side upstarts with their first championship in almost 100 years.
by Michael White on Jan 6, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t think the writers will vote him in on first ballot. Lots of time at DH, steroid era, etc…same old stuff
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
No way?
no way?
there is a way he gets in first ballot and he probably will… the man was a beast…
And had a great nickname.
I mean, c’mon. “The Big Hurt?” That is awesome.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Jan 6, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
To me, the Hall of Fame time every year is where a lot of people on both sides of the fence embarrass themselves. There seems to be way too much “this guy is stupid” from both sides. It’s very frustrating.
I found the process of voting for HOF guys here on TBLA strangely satisfying. I voted for Edgar and McGwire because I liked them (and Baines because I’m an idiot.) I’ll vote for Brown because I liked him too. Other people not voting for McGwire didn’t frustrate me, really. It’s one of those things where you can just say your peice with a vote ( I do find blank ballots pretty stupid though.)
by Michael White on Jan 6, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
So after Alomar, Bagwell, and Blyleven all make it next year, does anybody at all make it the year after that? No interesting new candidates in 2012.
I guess we’ll have to see if Morris, Larkin, or Smith — all at around 50% right now — can build enough support next year.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
Missed him on the list.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Jan 6, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
Also on the list in 2012, another interesting candidate...
…who won’t make it. Salmon.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Jan 6, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
Hard to say if Bagwell will get in on first crack. I mean, I would vote him in, like Thomas, but will 75% of writers?
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe -- I'm not a good predictor
But I think he’s seen as legitimately great, forming a HOF duo with Biggio. 449 HR, an MVP, a 2nd place, a 3rd place, and three more top-ten finishes are hard to ignore.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Jan 6, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
I think there will be too much of a steroid era backlash.
by Eric Stephen on Jan 6, 2010 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
Too long in exile
also known as Montreal. If he had his big years in a bigger market or a better team, he’s in.
The vote, just so it's here:
Andre Dawson 420 (77.9%)
Bert Blyleven 400 (74.2%)
Roberto Alomar 397 (73.7%)
Jack Morris 282 (52.3%)
Barry Larkin 278 (51.6%)
Lee Smith 255 (47.3%)
Edgar Martinez 195 (36.2%)
Tim Raines 164 (30.4%)
Mark McGwire 128 (23.7%)
Alan Trammell 121 (22.4%)
Fred McGriff 116 (21.5%)
Don Mattingly 87 (16.1%)
Dave Parker 82 (15.2%)
Dale Murphy 63 (11.7%)
Harold Baines 33 (6.1%)
Andres Galarraga 22 (4.1%)
Robin Ventura 7 (1.3%)
Ellis Burks 2 (0.4%)
Eric Karros 2 (0.4%)
Kevin Appier 1 (0.2%)
Pat Hentgen 1 (0.2%)
David Segui 1 (0.2%)
Mike Jackson 0
Ray Lankford 0
Shane Reynolds 0
Todd Zeile 0.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
My two cents
Dawson, Alomar and Rock Raines. Blylevin was so very solid but IMO not Hall worthy. He pitched 20+ years but only two AS appearances. Can anyone name an inducted pitcher with two or less AS selections? As for Tim Raines only getting 30%? WTF? He was such a great LF. I played against his Son Tim Raines Jr. in Regionals (FL) and he was the fastest player I have ever seen. He would be popped up and dusting off his belt by the time I got the throw down from our catcher, and our catcher had a strong accurate arm….he showed us up pretty good. We lost in the finals to his team…Rock Raines was watching proudly in attendance.
by VeroJoe on Jan 6, 2010 2:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Pitchers get named to all-star teams for having a great first half. Throw that at as a HOF criterion.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
good point
Like Billz last year. At the same time any HOF pitcher that comes to my mind would still have a plethora of AS appearances even if its only based on 1st half performance. I always compared Blyleven to Neikro…very good but not great. Also I like Mussina for HOF consideration although his stats might leave him just shy of enshrinement…only time will tell. Schilling 4 sure!
by VeroJoe on Jan 6, 2010 5:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on True Blue LA
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
- Giancarlo Stanton misses cutoff man, and Logan Morrison is thankful he did (Video)
- Snoop Dogg delivers memorable first pitch at U.S. Cellular Field
