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Vin Scully's Lords of the Ravine


This has been percolating in my brain for a while and I probably should have started this in December but this is how we are going to go about creating the Vin Scully Lords of the Ravine. What we are are going to do is put up a ballot on google docs exactly like the HOF ballot you recently voted on. However the link will only be sent to those who are well versed on Los Angeles Dodger History. Meaning this vote will not be open to the general SB Nation public.  The names on that first ballot will be:

Tommy Lasorda, Walter Alston, Al Campanis, Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale,  Junior Jim Gilliam, Maury Wills, Willie Davis,  Don Sutton,  Steve Garvey,  Ron Cey,  Davey Lopes,  Pedro Guerrero,   Fernando, Orel,   Mike Piazza, Raul MondesiShawn Green

Hitters (3000 Plate Appearances as a Dodger)

Pitchers (300 games as a Dodger)

Those requirements will be lifted after the first ballot. For example Gary Sheffield may have been the best Dodger hitter ever but he does not have enough Dodger at bats for a spot in the first suite. He does have a spot after that however and you will decide where that is.

Each voter can vote up to 10 names, those who are named on 70% of the ballots will be inducted.  Those inducted on this first ballot will be inducted into the top level of the Lords of the Ravine and it will be called the Walter O'Malley Suite named after the man who brought us the Los Angeles Dodgers.

For example: Fifty Ballots are cast. Of those 50 ballots Sandy Koufax, Mike Piazza, Tommy Lasorda, and Don Drysdale were the only ones to be named on 70% of the ballots.  That group would be inducted and make up the Walter O'Malley Suite.  Think of that group as players whose numbers you would like to see retired and hanging from the Pavilion.

The next ballot will have players added to replace those already elected and again the same process would take place.

Who will be voting?

1. Phil, Eric, Dave,  and Brendan

2. I'm going to send invitations to all the writers of the  Dodger Blogs that we are aware of. 

3.  For TBLA members who are interested in voting in this process send me an email at truebla @ gmail dot com, put the subject Lords of the Ravine in subject header. When the ballot is ready I'll send you the link.

4. I'm going to send out several invitations to people like Jay Jaffee, Chris Jaffe, Eric Enders,  Bob Timmermann, Josh Rawitch, Andrew, and assorted other DT commentators who know of what they speak.

 

All ballots will be published.

Items I could use help on. We have 18 names who will be on the first run ballot. If anyone is interested in writing up a compelling argument for one of these people put in the comments the person you want to write about. First come first served, then write up a FanPost, if it is good enough I'll put it on the front page and we will let the debate begin on that player  Not until all names on the ballot  have had write ups will the ballot be ready for a vote.  This is going to have to be a group effort, because we don't have time to write up good summaries for each person. I'm hoping that for every person mentioned that at least one of you felt a connection with that player and would like to mount the argument for their inclusion on the first ballot.

Also,  if someone is not listed that you think should be, the only way to get them on the first  ballot is to  write a defense on why they should be considered provided they meet the minimum requirements.  Bill Russell, Burt Hooten, Dusty Baker, Claude Osteen, Ron Perranoski, Ross Porter, Fresco Thompson......

As this moves forward I'd like to create a web site dedicated to this group with someone taking stewardship. Ultimately Frank McCourt will build a Vin Scully Lords of the Ravine tunnel connecting the right and left field pavilion's and we will have everything they need but the busts to make it happen.  This will be built with the windfall from the 2010-2012 string of world championships acquired on the pitching combination of Kershaw/Billingsley as they make their case to become part of the Walter O'Malley Suite once they have pitched 300 games.

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Wow, this is quite the undertaking

I will volunteer to make the case for Shawn Green.

by Michael White on Jan 7, 2010 2:00 PM PST reply actions  

Just make sure

… you show your work! :)
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Jan 7, 2010 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

This is awesome!

As big a Dodger fan that I am, I don’t think I would be able to cast a good vote due to my limited knowledge on LA Dodger history. I’ve loved the Dodgers for all remember-able years of my life, but I just don’t know their history good enough.

However, I will be anxiously awaiting each player’s write up. This sounds like a great project.

by Jesse S. on Jan 7, 2010 3:03 PM PST reply actions  

I felt the same way

I’m fine writing about Shawn Green, but I wouldn’t be comfortable voting.

by Michael White on Jan 7, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

What is the time frame for completion of writing a compelling argument?

I have a pretty busy schedule with work and family for the next 4 weeks, but if the “deadline” is around when pitchers and catchers report, Feb 18th, then I would like to take on Tommy Lasorda.

by MammothDodger on Jan 7, 2010 3:05 PM PST reply actions  

I would hope

we could have all the writeups done by Feb 1st.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 3:12 PM PST up reply actions  

With a couple of late nights doing some research

I should be able to get that done. Some of the family stuff I have upcoming is getting together with my brothers and talking Dodger baseball from the 70s and 80s over some drinks late into the night should give me some excellent material.

So I volunteer to Argue Tommy’s case.

by MammothDodger on Jan 7, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Credit Eric

he’s the man for titles and headlines.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

So far

Shawn Green – MWhite
Tommy Lasorda – MammothDodger

Step right up and claim your Dodger. Don’t be shy. Even if you don’t know some of these guys pick one and learn about them. Everyone on that list had a hell of career.

FYI – Jonathan Broxton has the highest ERA+ of any LA Dodger pitcher with 300 games under his belt. Can he maintain that level or have we seen the best of him. I found 300 games a very good cutoff. There are no lousy pitchers who gave us at least 300 games, everyone of them had an ERA+ over 100.

You will learn amazing things like this as you research the player you have claimed. Just remember when you are discussing their exploits they must be limited to what they accomplished while playing for the Blue.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 4:09 PM PST reply actions  

Can't some exception be made for Gibson?

MVP and holder of argueably the greatest moment in Dodgers (& baseball) history.

My nominee would be Mike Scioscia, who was my favorite player growing up and our backstop for over a decade.

From Wikipedia:
“Scioscia was a key player on the Dodgers’ 1981 and 1988 World Series champion teams, and is the Dodgers’ all-time leader in games caught (1,395.)”

"If you don't take out his battery, he's going to keep going all day."

by S Jay Bruin on Jan 7, 2010 4:24 PM PST reply actions  

Vin Scully's Lords of the Ravine

Love the name btw

"If you don't take out his battery, he's going to keep going all day."

by S Jay Bruin on Jan 7, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Gibson – For the Walter O’Malley Suite – No, but he will find his way here, just not at this level.
Scoscia – Feel free to write up a defense for him. I almost put him on the ballot.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Y’know, I would like to take Maury Wills.

I admit that this will not come easily for me. I am not predisposed to voting for Wills — I often compared Pierre to him when I was writing the OutWatch. However, I think I need to look at his case with fresh eyes and an open mind. So many people whose opinions I respect have a lot of love for Wills. It would be a challenge and an honor to write up an appreciation of his career.

Please let me know if that’s all right with you.

The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy

by Humma Kavula on Jan 7, 2010 4:40 PM PST reply actions  

You got the 62 MVP

and the man who brought the stolen base back into the offensive world.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 5:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m a little surprised that Ron Perranoski didn’t make eligibility for the O’Malley Suite. I don’t know how others are going to feel about it, but I’m willing to put together a defense for him.

by prosellis on Jan 7, 2010 5:09 PM PST reply actions  

He was there

and then I took him off. Probably the best relief pitcher we had who made the 300 games cutoff. Go for it.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Because this is your baby

should I limit the argument to his playing years or can I include his years as pitching coach. I think his merit as a player is good enough for O’Malley Suite inclusion, but I think others might be swayed by the little extra shove his success as pitching coach might provide.

by prosellis on Jan 7, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh sure

his pitching coach years as a Dodger are relevant.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 7:06 PM PST up reply actions  

where's Tommy Davis?

I understand his star didn’t shine long, but he could mash for a while there.

by preacher roe on Jan 7, 2010 5:25 PM PST reply actions  

His 62 season is one of the top 10 offensive seasons but then what? I did have him on the list knowing some would like to see him but he also was pruned. If you think you can make a compelling case for him go for it. Remember this group is the best the Dodgers had to offer. Willie Davis has longevity on his side as he has the most win shares of any Dodger and was a good center fielder. The Lords of the Ravine will eventually have room for Tommy Davis but I’m not sure he belongs on the top level.

However I’ll let others make the distinction so go a head and make your case.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Gen3Blue takes Junior Gilliam

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 7:07 PM PST reply actions  

Why the internet exists

I present this Tweet from Bill Plaschke:

OK, I first guessed this..I was shouting for Mack to take a knee..why on earth would he have the kid fool around there?..Game over..No taint

by Eric Stephen on Jan 7, 2010 7:09 PM PST reply actions  

what a stupid play

he’s right, game over. Dang, very disappointing game.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 7:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Herbstreet was priceless

“Texas can take a shot here. Maybe get a pass interference. They’ve got a good kicker, ya know.”

After pick 6.

“That is the exact opposite of what Texas wanted there.”

Well no shit Kirk. Analysis like that is why they pay you the big bucks.

by Michael White on Jan 7, 2010 7:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Was it worth waiting 5-6 weeks for?
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Jan 7, 2010 7:30 PM PST up reply actions  

would've

like to have seen one of those leverage index graphs from this game. One sudden spike up and a flat line on both sides.
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Jan 7, 2010 9:06 PM PST up reply actions  

benmaller
  
Alabama QB Greg McElroy is a big Dodgers fan according to Musburger… knew I liked this kid!

by Tripon on Jan 7, 2010 8:07 PM PST reply actions  

Ben Maller is late to the party. SOSG was all over that Sunday! :)

In a related story, I stopped following Maller a while back because he just tweets too damn much, often about nothing.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 7, 2010 8:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Maller just uses the twitter feed to pimp his rumors page… that does no rumor mongering for itself. Its a pretty shitty news aggregator, and makes me wonder why I’m still following him. :)

by Tripon on Jan 7, 2010 8:26 PM PST up reply actions  

The Gilbert-Arenas connections in the BCS Championship Game are very topical.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 7, 2010 9:01 PM PST reply actions  

The robot Nick Saban strikes me as an unpleasant fellow. Smile, damn it. You just won the BCS championship!

by Eric Stephen on Jan 7, 2010 9:08 PM PST reply actions  

Colt McCoy, after the game:

I really have no pain in my arm. I just can’t feel my arm.

McCoy’s on-field after-a-loss postgame interview was on the classy end of the spectrum, just a solid interview, very respectful. On the other end of that spectrum is Matt Leinart (something like “we’re still the better team”) four years ago.

by Eric Stephen on Jan 7, 2010 9:12 PM PST reply actions  

Joe Torre is going to be on the February 8 episode of ABC’s “Castle.” He will be playing…Joe Torre.

http://bit.ly/766cqL

by Eric Stephen on Jan 7, 2010 9:31 PM PST reply actions  

Or

The first inductees should be given Mount Rushmore treatment. Don’t wanna influence the voters, but I could see Vin, Sandy, Tommy, and Fernando up there.

by Bob Hendley on Jan 7, 2010 9:55 PM PST reply actions  

If there is a manager on the LAD Mt. Rushmore...

it should be Alston.

Alston (in LA only)
1673-1365 (.551 win%), 5 pennants, 3 titles

Lasorda
1599-1439 (.526 win%), 4 pennants, 2 titles

by Eric Stephen on Jan 7, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Amazingly, both managers managed 3,038 games in LA

by Eric Stephen on Jan 7, 2010 10:11 PM PST up reply actions  

That is amazing. Did Tommy do that on purpose?

by Jesse S. on Jan 7, 2010 11:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Amazing timing on his heart attack.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Jan 9, 2010 12:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Sure

but then everybody would have to ask, “who is that guy?”

by Bob Hendley on Jan 7, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Downside to Alston

“On Top of Old Smokey” jokes.

by Bob Hendley on Jan 8, 2010 6:05 AM PST up reply actions  

JMHO

but it ain’t Rushmore if the best hitter in Dodger history is not represented. Home grown at that. And like Eric said I’ll take Walter over Tommy. But that is why we have these debates. So Bob are you going to represent Mr. Lasorda?

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 11:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Noooooo!

I am not sympathetic to him so I probably wouldn’t do him justice. Let me think of someone else.

by Bob Hendley on Jan 8, 2010 6:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Gomer?

I wanna do Claude Osteen.

by Bob Hendley on Jan 8, 2010 6:54 AM PST up reply actions  

He's yours

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 8, 2010 8:07 AM PST up reply actions  

I’m with Phil on this one. I’d have to say that I’d rather see Piazza up there in place of Vin.

by Jesse S. on Jan 7, 2010 11:21 PM PST up reply actions  

The whole thing

is named after Vin, he is not up for vote.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 11:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Next up - Don Sutton

The hardest part is not looking at Jon’s book to poach off his fine work.

by bhsportsguy on Jan 7, 2010 10:11 PM PST reply actions  

So Far

Don Sutton – bhsportsguy
Ron Cey -bhsportsguy
Pedro Guerrero – bhsportsguy
Shawn Green – MWhite
Tommy Lasorda – MammothDodger
Junior Gilliam – Gen3Blue
Mondesi – deliasman
Ron Perranoski – prosellis
Maury Wills – Humma Kuvala
Mike Scioscia – S Jay Bruin

Thanks to those who have offered to do these writeups.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 11:08 PM PST reply actions  

What about Manny Mota ?

Next to Sandy K, he was my favorite player growing up in the 60’s and 70’s. As a Dodger he was .337/.394/.403 with a lifetime pinch-hitting EQR of 51. He’s also spent a ton of time in Dodger uniform as a coach.

Thanks to Baseball Prospectus for the stats.

by Connector on Jan 7, 2010 11:28 PM PST reply actions  

Almost made my cut

but we are talking the Walter O’Malley suite. If you think he belongs on the first ballot then give me a reason to put him on but that sentence won’t get it done. You can be assured he will be on subsequent ballots.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 7, 2010 11:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Hall of Dodger Fame

How should this list be different from the LA Dodgers already in Cooperstown? Or from the retired numbers that grace the outfield (obviously excluding Campy and Snider)?

What about Jaime Jarrin, the Hispanic Vin Scully? It would be a shame to overlook the Dodgers’ considerable audience among Spanish-speaking fans.

by SaMo Dodgerfan on Jan 8, 2010 11:53 AM PST reply actions  

He'll get his chance

and my answer is the same for you as it has been for everyone else who has brought up a name. if you think he should be on the ballot then make a case.

The Vin Scully Lords of the Ravine will have levels, very much unlike the HOF. We are going to determine 1st who should be on the top level. The voters may will well decide that level will only include current MLB Hall of Famers or they may conclude that some Dodgers who the HOF overlooked are just as worthy to stand with them. Not to mention Piazza is not even in the HOF yet, so that is one big difference. My expectation is that very few will make the first level but this is a good time to remind everyone just how deep how history is. Willie Davis holds many Dodger records and now is as good a time as any to write about him.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 8, 2010 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for the support

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 8, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

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2012 Dodgers Payroll

Italics denote estimates
Pos No Player 2012 Salary
C 17 Ellis $500,000 team control
1B 7 Loney $6,375,000
2B 14 Ellis $2,500,000
3B 5 Uribe $8,000,000
SS 9 Gordon $485,000 team control
LF 21 Rivera $4,000,000
CF 27 Kemp $10,000,000
RF 16 Ethier $10,950,000

IF/OF 6 Hairston $2,250,000
OF 10 Gwynn $850,000
2B/3B 3 Kennedy $800,000
C 18 Treanor $850,000
IF 12 Sellers $485,000 team control

SP 22 Kershaw $8,500,000 arb
SP 58 Billingsley $9,000,000
SP 29 Lilly $12,000,000
SP 37 Capuano $3,000,000
SP 44
Harang $3,000,000

CL 54 Guerra $485,000 team control
RHP 74
Jansen $500,000 team control
RHP 55 Guerrier $4,750,000
RHP Coffey $1,000,000
RHP 66 MacDougal $650,000
LHP 57 Elbert $485,000 team control
RHP 36
Hawksworth $500,000 team control

TJ 41 De La Rosa $485,000 team control



Manny $8,087,432 deferred


Andruw $3,375,000 deferred


Pierre $3,050,000 deferred
Furcal $3,000,000 deferred
Kuroda $2,000,000 deferred
Garland $1,500,000 option buyout
Blake $1,250,000 option buyout

Totals
$114,662,432

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Players on 40-man roster used as roster
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Current 40-man roster count: 40
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2012 Non-Roster Invitees

No Player Age*
63 Jose Ascanio rhp
27
61 Alberto Castillo lhp
36
60 Matt Chico lhp
29
35 John Grabow lhp
33
59 Angel Guzman rhp
30
47 Wil Ledezma lhp
31
72 Shane Lindsay rhp
27
62 Fernando Nieve rhp 29
73 Scott Rice lhp 30
70 Will Savage rhp
27
71 Ryan Tucker rhp
25

30 Josh Bard c 34
82 Griff Erickson c 24
81 Matt Wallachc 26
67 Jeff Baisley 3b/1b 29
62 Luis Cruz ss/2b 28
33 Josh Fields 3b 29
64 Lance Zawadzki if 27
56 Cory Sullivan of 32

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