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Depodesta 2004 Outfield - Spilled Milk Edition

keeps paying dividends just not for the Dodgers.

During spring training of 2004 the Dodgers had an outfield of Shawn Green, Dave Roberts, and Juan Encarnacion but no 1st baseman other then Robin Ventura.

In a period of five days Depodesta transformed the Dodger outfield for the immediate future, and what could have been for the next five years.

On March 29th, Depo's first ever trade as Dodger GM  was to send AA relief pitcher Jason Frasor to the Toronto Blue Jays for failed catching prospect Jayson Werth. Upto that point the 24 year old Jayson Werth was known more for his relatives, and his 6'5 frame  then his ability to hit a baseball. In two seasons for the Blue Jays he struck out an alarming 33% of the time in his meager 94 plate appearances. Whatever Depo saw in Werth, he must have seen it in the minor leagues or had a scout really touting him. You can look at Werth's minor league numbers, and say for a catcher, not so bad, for a corner outfielder, eh.  Werth was acquired as insurance and did not make the club out of spring training. He was sent to Las Vegas to start the year but battered the PCL and quickly became part of a platoon with Dave Roberts.

On April 1st, Depo then traded another relief pitcher, Steve Colyer for Detroit outfielder Cody Ross. The 23 year old Ross was also sent to Las Vegas where he would spend all of 2004 and 2005.

After giving his outfield some depth for the future, Depo looked at his team and saw an outfield of Green, Roberts, and Encarnacion. He didn't have a 1st  baseman other then the old Robin Ventura so when Milton Bradley became available he made his play.  The price for acquiring Milton Bradley on April 3rd was top AA prospect Franklin Gutierrez and another relief pitcher, Andy Brown. 

So in a space of five days, Depodesta acquired the 2004/2005 starting center fielder, the starting LF for the playoffs in 2004, and a man who if they had kept would have been the starting left fielder for the last five years at a very cheap price.

For all that he wasn't done working his outfield magic in 2004. As the season progressed Dave Roberts and Juan Encarnacion were simply not Depo guys. Encarnacion was an average power hitter, who struck out to much, and had little plate discipline. In the outfield he had a good arm but was not a particularly adept right fielder. Dave Roberts was a decent average, no power, speed guy playing a corner position. As we would see with Depo's moves, he was not a big fan of players whose best skill was speed.

So just like from March 29th - April 3rd, Depo worked quickly at the trading deadline and one more time transformed the outfield. On July 30th he traded Juan Encarnacion in the big Lo Duca deal, getting rid of his right fielder while acquiring a 1st baseman in Hee Sop Choi.  On July 31st he completed the madness by trading for All-Star center fielder Steven Finley moving a plethora of no talent minor leaguers. Dave Roberts no longer had a starting gig and in his 2nd most inexplicable move of 2004 he dealt Roberts to the Red Sox career minor leaguer Henri Stanly. 

The resulting lineup was Milton moving to RF, Finley taking over CF, and Jayson Werth moving from a platoon LF role to an everyday starting role. In a tight pennant race, this outfield helped propel to the team to the pennant with Steve Finley hitting one of the most memorable Los Angeles Dodger September home runs to clinch the pennant.

All of the promise of 2004 went up in smoke the following spring. Jayson Werth who looked like a young power hitting, great fielding, patient corner outfielder broke his wrist in the first spring training game of 2005. Even when he came back his power was gone, and when the Dodgers faced the choice of giving him a contract in the winter of 2006 they let him go. Easily the worst move of the Ned Era, with his wrist healed Jayson Werth has been the best right fielder in the NL since 2007. 

Milton Bradley detonated in 2005 and was gone, but in Ned's greatest move, he acquired Andre Ethier for Milton.

Steve Finley was a free agent and in one of Depo's better moves he not only did not offer him arbitration he let him walk when he demanded a multi year deal. Depo guessed right and Finley's would never again be an impact player.

Cody Ross spent all of 2004 and 2005 in the minor leagues. By the time he surfaced to the major leagues, Depo was gone and Ned was in his place. Ned didn't seem to have faith in the Depo acquisitions and just one week after Ross hit two home runs while driving in seven runs he was moved to the Reds for a minor league relief pitcher. While Depo created the outfield trading his minor league relief pitchers for outfielders, Ned would spend most of his Dodger time trading whatever the Dodger had for relief pitchers. Since being traded to the Reds in 2006 Cody Ross was then traded to the Marlins. From 2007-2010 Cody Ross has put up an OPS+ of 109 which is the same as the Hundred Million Dollar man Alfonso Soriano.

With all the good Depo did during the 2004 season he made two mistakes. One was trading Dave Roberts so cheaply simply because he was no longer a starter. Given the success that Depo had with Werth/Ross one hoped that Henri Stanley would also pan out, but that was not to be the case. He didn't.

The second was creating the 40 man roster in the winter of 2004. He left off Shane Victorino who had an excellent AA season, and was plucked by the Phillies on Dec 13th, 2004 during the Rule V draft. 

When Ned took over in the winter of 2005, the players that Depo had acquired via trade who were on the 40 man roster were:

Hee Sop Choi, Antonio Perez, Dionnar Navarro, Jayson Werth,  Cody Ross, Milton Bradley, Jason Philips, Jose Cruz, Jason Grabowski, and Brad Penny.

By the start of the 2007 season one full season later, only Brad Penny was left.  The Depo purge was complete.  Most of those players turned out to be dreck, but for one summer Paul Depodesta made some shrewd moves to build his 2004 outfielder and to create depth for the future.

While doing this story I found it remarkable how often Depo traded a relief pitcher as compared to how often Ned trades for a relief pitcher. Might make an interesting story for another day.

Comment 39 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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I remember being pissed that they traded Lo Duca

and Werth seeming to be injured a lot.

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/

by nolander on Oct 18, 2010 12:17 PM PDT reply actions  

Oh

we are not going down that road again.

by bhsportsguy on Oct 18, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which one?

Long run I don’t miss Lo Duca and his steroid dealin ways.

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/

by nolander on Oct 18, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

As hard as it is to retain players once traded away, I thought Cody Ross would have been a better acquisition than Scott Podsednik. Not that it would have mattered but the team would have been better in the last two months.

by squirrelmasterz on Oct 18, 2010 12:20 PM PDT reply actions  

Cody Ross

didn’t hit much nor did he play much since the Giants also had Jose Guillen.

by bhsportsguy on Oct 18, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cody Ross had a pretty poor year.

Cody Ross was a hell of a lot better than the LA version of Scott Podsednik.

by regfairfield on Oct 18, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

What Cody Ross did for the Giants

has nothing to do with what he’d have done for the Dodgers instead of Podboy. Typical Ned, he traded for a guy whose numbers were propped up, and ignored a guy who had better peripherals. Ned is all about what are you doing right now, Hendrickson and so forth.

by meercatjohn on Oct 18, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hindsight is 20/20 on Jayson Werth

Heading into 2007, he was a soon-to-be 28-year old outfielder who hadn’t played for all of 2006, struggled when he did play in 2005, and couldn’t hit right-handed pitching (OPS of .741 and .725 in 2004 and 2005, respectively).

I completely blame the organization for piss-poor medical care of Werth: misdiagnoses, Vladimir Shpunt, etc were simply stupid. But I vehemently disagree that non-tendering Werth was Ned’s worst move.

(a) Ned has had plenty of bad moves
(b) It’s completely defensible to not want to commit $~2m via arbitration to someone with Werth’s health and performance history

Yes, I realize that same offseason Ned signed both Juan Pierre and Luis Gonzalez, but those moves should be evaluated (badly) in their own right.

by Eric Stephen on Oct 18, 2010 12:36 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I don’t think Werth was gonna get 2 million after missing all of the year before. It probably would have been closer to the 750K he actually got.

by regfairfield on Oct 18, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

So we basically decided Werth wasn’t worth 350K.

by regfairfield on Oct 18, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

The point of the post is not so much hindsite

but the foresight that Depo had when he made his deals to build the outfield.

In hindsight it was easily his worst move, at the time it may have been defensible, but as Reg said we were talking less then 500,000 to let a starting outfielder walk.

by meercatjohn on Oct 18, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would have brought Werth back

but calling someone who couldn’t hit righties and coming off his injuries a “starting outfielder” is generous, at best.

by Eric Stephen on Oct 18, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

History says he is a starting outfielder

if you want to play with the semantics, fine.

By the way have you seen his insane stolen base numbers while under Davy Lopes. 60 stolen bases, caught 8 times in four years.

by meercatjohn on Oct 18, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think a more productive question

is how good would Werth have been had he stayed with the Dodgers. Would he have developed as he has with Philly? I would love to know the answer to that.

by Eric Stephen on Oct 18, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ve given up evaluating moves because someone will think every move is wrong in some way. Albert Pujols could become a Dodger and someone will think it’s a bad move because he won’t hit as well in L.A. or he is overpaid or he is juicing.

When people discuss any move made by Colletti or even DePodesta, I just wait to hear what the complaint du jour is.

by Bob Timmermann on Oct 18, 2010 12:45 PM PDT reply actions  

Not that there are that many original food show ideas

but when Food Network starts copying the Travel Channel’s Food Wars and Man vs. Food shows, you have to wonder if they need to rethink what they are doing.

by bhsportsguy on Oct 18, 2010 12:50 PM PDT reply actions  

Competition is a good thing?

Maybe?

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/

by nolander on Oct 18, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I never thought Depo was bad

granted, I didn’t follow the team nearly as closely then as I do now, but I always felt like his moves left us in a better position than when he got here. He wasn’t given enough time to actually build a team, and I’m curious how/what he would have done given a fully-reaalized core of Martin, Loney, Ethier, Kemp, et al. He probably would have traded Broxton for Miguel Cabrera. :)

Poison kills 80 children in Uganda. Damn you, Brett Michaels! Damn you!

by G.Scott on Oct 18, 2010 3:53 PM PDT reply actions  

Is the pain of Lo Duca and Piazza leaving

going to keep Martin in the fold? All three are/were fan favorites, and since each one, until the next one came, there was what seemed to be a never ending black hole at the catcher spot.

And DePo was a GM willing to take risks… he actually had nuts :o. An amazing concept when looking at some of the GMs of today

by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Oct 18, 2010 9:50 PM PDT reply actions  

Fan favorites who don’t hit don’t generally have the same impact as those who do.

by LA Taco on Oct 18, 2010 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's a good point

Martin is still probably a pretty big fan favorite.

by Michael White on Oct 19, 2010 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

In my opinion the

worst moves a GM makes are usually the contracts he does sign rather then the ones he doesn’t. Hindsight makes us all geniuses and foresight is rare. The worst moves are the ones like Juan Pierre (simply not productive enough for the money, any way you slice it) and Jason Schmidt (gambling on known serious injury risks) where good information was available, and the wrong decision was made.

Reading this article it reminds me that like all GMs, DePo had his flaws and mistakes, but he did seem to have a talent for not giving up too much. As you noted, Ned acquired relievers which seems like a way of almost always needing to give up too much.

by LA Taco on Oct 18, 2010 11:37 PM PDT reply actions  

meercat

Just wanted to say this was an excellent read.

by kinbote on Oct 19, 2010 10:59 AM PDT reply actions  

You should rec it!

@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Oct 22, 2010 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm finallly catching up on the FanPosts

This was a good one. Not sure why you didn’t put this on the main page that day; it’s certainly more front page worthy than those fluffy coaching connection ones I’m throwing up on the front page so that we can start commenting on a new thread.

@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Oct 22, 2010 6:31 PM PDT reply actions  

So what I took from this was, fuck Ned Colletti. Was it Branch Rickey that said it’s better to trade a guy a year too early than a year too late? Seems Ned only trades guys a year too early for guys that are a year too late.

by Mike Dennis on Oct 23, 2010 11:53 AM PDT reply actions  

heh- well said

pretty much my point below, though you manage to make it with about 1/8th the space. :)

by sarcastro9 on Oct 24, 2010 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

interesting stuff, Phil

I used to defend Colletti, for the most part, on the grounds that bloggers were so tough on him, in spite of the Dodgers relative success. But after 5 years on the job, it is becoming more and more clear that this criticism is warranted. Yeah, he’s kept the core around, for better or for worse (I still say better, for now), and he’s done a good job finding those “missing pieces” that have helped with those late-season runs. But I’d rather have a GM who can find young diamonds in the rough, as opposed to guys from the scrap heap who can find lightning in a bottle for a month or so. Ned’s M.O. seems pretty clear at this point- trade young guys who either haven’t “cut it” or were never given a chance in the first place, for older players who can help for a short period of time. Most of his moves on a case by case basis are defensible on some level. But on the whole, outside of Ethier, where are our Cody Rosses, Edwin Jacksons, Jayson Werths, J-Macs, etc. etc.? Nearly every team has their sob story, but in the Dodgers case, we have almost nothing coming the other way. It’s going to be very interesting to see what happens with these guys who were sacrificed for the ‘08/’09 stretch run, and the ’10 non-run. Well, at least we still have Ted Lilly.

And speaking of Ted Lilly, though I am honestly glad he’s going to be back, since he’s gonna be 35 and (presumably) starting on the downward slope of his career, would it be too much to ask for Ned to at least TRY to offer our 26 year old starter (presumably) on the upward slope of his career a similar kind of contract? Sure, there are risks, but a heckuva lot less for a 26 year old pitcher than a 35 year old one, I would think.

by sarcastro9 on Oct 24, 2010 10:54 PM PDT reply actions  

Other than the Ethier trade, does Colletti have any other laughers where we totally ripped another team off? We certainly got plenty of the reverse. Maybe the Manny trade? I can’t think of anything else.

by Mike Dennis on Oct 25, 2010 7:50 PM PDT reply actions  

Def the Manny trade

Most GMs don’t get that many opportunities to rip off other teams.

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/

by nolander on Oct 25, 2010 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Juan Pierre for anything?

I know, that doesn’t really count

by Eric Stephen on Oct 25, 2010 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

poor J.P. can't get any love

He did at least have an outstanding year on the basepaths!

by sarcastro9 on Oct 25, 2010 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

What if . . .

JP really was the glue that held this team together? {gulp} {shudder} {faints}

by kinbote on Oct 26, 2010 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Giovanni Carrara

I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.

by G.Scott on Oct 26, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ha Ha

That needs to see some light.

by meercatjohn on Oct 27, 2010 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wow I just got it.

I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.

by G.Scott on Oct 27, 2010 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

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