Ted Lilly, Future Dodger Home Run Champion?
by meercatjohn on Oct 20, 2010 9:03 AM PDT
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Might as well get a poll up about your thoughts on Ted Lilly. Eric likes the deal, at first I was against it. However since 1970 history shows that soft-tossing lefthanders with impeccable control can have success during their mid to late 30's. In fact the list is so large that I won't post it here; you will have to follow this link. Over 65 left-handed pitchers have had successful seasons from age 35 on. Of course betting on Lilly to have three of those seasons while paying him a premium price is the problem. At that price he needs to be good every year, not just one or two. While I'm sure most of you are happy that we now have three legitimate starting pitchers, I'm just not sold that the best way to accomplish this was to throw this kind of money at Ted Lilly.
I can't help but feel that the Ted Lilly we saw in Aug/Sept will be the best we will ever see, and that in three years this will be another deal about which someone will say "other then a few bad signings here and there, Ned has done a bang up job". Then again the NL seems to suit Ted Lilly just fine. He has been as solid as they come since he left Toronto and learned how to control the strike zone.
Do I sound like I'm torn on this deal? It should because I am. I really like Ted Lilly and have wanted him to be a Dodger for years. I wanted him this summer. I'm just not sure I want him for the next three years.
The record for home runs allowed is 38 by a Los Angeles Dodger. Lilly gave up 13 in 12 starts, and that was at his best. If he gets 32 starts, you can expect between 30 - 35 bombs. Since he has only pitched over 200 innings twice in his career he'd have to really have major gopheritis to come close to Don Sutton's mark. Hopefully with his control those will be solo shots and no big deal. Hopefully.
Player HR Year Age ERA ERA+ Don Sutton 38 1970 25 4.08 94 Jeff Weaver 35 2005 28 4.22 97 Jose Lima 33 2004 31 4.07 101 Ismael Valdez 32 1999 25 3.98 108 Darren Dreifort 31 2000 28 4.16 105 Chan Ho Park 31 1999 26 5.23 82 Don Drysdale 30 1965 28 2.77 118
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I don’t think he will be worth every penny, but I think he will be an effective pitcher in the rotation trhough the end of the deal, even if he ends up being the 4th or 5th starter in the 3rd year. Until I know what the operating budget is going forward(and we won’t know that until after the ownership is fully truly settled so not this year probably) I find it hard to evaluate the deal.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Me two
I think it is likely he suffers some debilitating arm problems over the next three years, but hopefully not next year. It was only a year ago he had arthoscopic surgery that delayed his 2010 season.
You don't thikn
he will be good enough to be at the least a 5th starter?
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
You don’t think he’s gonna pass the “better than Charlie Haegar” test?
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions
By the 2013 the test will be much harder to pass
It would be like saying in the winter of 2006 that in 2009 you don’t think someone will be better then Mike Edwards to play 3rd base
I guess you’re more optimistic than me.
I also think that unless Zach Lee looks like we can drop him in the rotation and he’ll win a Cy Young immediately, Lilly’s gonna get the spot. Our pitchers with options to burn never start the year in the rotation.
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions
I think
people expect more from the 5th starter then is realistic. Just look around the league and see how many teams have a good 5th starter.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Hell no
He’ll be behind
Clayton 2011 CY YOUNG AWARD WINNER
Chad
Grienke 2012 CY YOUNG AWARD WINNER
Webster 2012 ROY
Lee – ROY
Well then that won't be any fault of his own
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Sure it will
Lee gets pressed into service on June 1st because Lilly gave up 17 home runs in ten starts. Five of them to Buster Posey and Carlos Ruiz
Hey Phil
Since when do you let Silverwidow post on your acct? :D
Are you an 80 year old Floridian?
because you left a hanging Chad :)
by StolenMonkey86 on Oct 20, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Considering the Dodgers have not had a 5th starter
who made 20 starts since 2003, I would say that as long as Lilly’s arm is still attached to his body he will be a good option for the 5th spot in 2013 for the 10 year anniversary.
If he is a fifth starter in quality in any of the three years
isn’t that “some other scenario”?
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Yes
which is why I voted for 4 instead of 3. 3 says he won’t even be in the rotation, and since 5th starter are generally not that good if good at all, I’m pretty sure he’ll stick there at worst.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Counting FAIL
I interpreted “3” as “some other scenario”. I also voted “some other scenario”. He might be traded in the third year too.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
From last thread
I think Fuck The Numbers should be the name of a rock and roll revival band. They could open for Clap Your Hands Say Yeah! or Panic! At The Disco.
Fuck the Numbers sounds like the name of some late 80s/early 90s English crustpunk band.
As for CYHSY! and P!ATD, the less said the better.
http://www.23beatsoff.blogspot.com/
Before they were The Who
one of their previous names was The High Numbers. Fuck The Numbers could have worked for them.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I dunno, the Who, while all rebellious and shit, never seemed aggressive about it. You can go from Sex Pistols to Fuck the Numbers, but you don’t get there from The Who or The High Numbers
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Smashing
all their instruments (long before it became passe) and hoping to die before they got old was pretty aggressive. Even more so in 1965.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
On Sunday, June 18, 1967,
The Who played the Monterey International Pop Festival. They closed their set by smashing their instruments. I’m pretty sure that’s the first time US audiences had ever seen anything like that.
The second time US audiences saw anything like that was two acts later, when Jimi Hendrix closed his set by setting his guitar on fire.
Then the Mamas and the Papas came on after Hendrix and closed the festival.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
During their Mod phase, certainly.
http://www.23beatsoff.blogspot.com/
Yes
I meant in their embryonic days, like when they were The High Numbers.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
My main concern about this deal
is that it feels a little too much like the Juan Pierre scenario.
Ned (voice-over, in his mind): I’ve only got two starting (pitchers/outfielders) on the roster with major-league experience. I can’t go into the season that way. And I’ve got to limit the variables if I have a chance of figuring out a way to build this next roster. OK, I’ll have to overpay in dollars and years, but I need to plug one of these holes.
Ned (over phone, to player and agent): Here you go (Ted/Juan), (3/33, 5/44).
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I actually had that in the original story
and then flip flopped it out. To be honest, my first draft was quite negative, then I checked the history, and decided I could be wrong.
I meant to add that there were also limited options available on the market in each scenario. The analogy isn’t perfect; there is value to what Ted Lilly brings, but I was surprised to read that he also only had two 200 IP seasons, but he has been in the 190s a couple times and has made 30 or more starts in all but two season from 2003 to the present (25 and 27 in the other two).
If he gives LA a 105 – 110 ERA+ each year with 30 to 32 starts, is that worth $11M per year? I guess that was the kind of basis for which he got 4/40 before.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Isn’t the difference though, that we actually had Kemp who could play center but no one believed it. The current state is that we really don’t have any legitimate starters beyond Kershaw and Bills.
I'm just hoping that McDonald does not become our Werth
We traded for Lilly because we had no faith in McDonald. We signed Pierre because we had no faith in Kemp or Werth. Not a total match but enough comparables I can write it.
It does seem like
as much as “fan feel they deserve 100 wins every year” we’ve also got “ownership bought the Dodgers on a credit card and can’t pay the bills with a losing season”. Hence bringing in players who “know how to win” over rookies who “haven’t learned how to win yet”
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t get that at all for this signing. He is Ted Lilly, proven veteran, but who are the rookies that should be given a shot? Ely and Monk are both 6th or 7th options. Ethier Lilly or Kuroda were a necessary signing, maybe both are.
the signing sure, but Phil was talking about McDonald going out and Lilly coming in
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Meh, I just can’t muster the rage over McDonald. The return that we got, yeah, but he was done in this organization the last time he moped in the dugout.
not all fan comments need to come from rage, they can also come from rationality, slight disappointment, logic, following the money, tortilla jesus, etc.
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
If you removed every player
who moped in a dugout, you’d be hard pressed to field a team. They mope in the clubhouse, on the field, in the dugout. I made fun of McDonalds moping but he’s hardly alone. Of course it would take a reporter who fancies themselves a pysch expert based on a few moments of the time they have spent with a player to really get at what is going on in that brain and if they have any chance for success. Because you know successful players only come in one stripe.
Wait we traded him because he moped?
for dotel? REALLY? Come on man that is weak.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
No, right or wrong management felt he couldn’t be counted on as a starter. The fact that he looked like Joe Torre had just punched his kitten in the face made it readily apparent to them.
Which is stupid
That they then decided Monk should stay on the 40 man and get a bunch of starts instead.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
That was stupid
I would think that McDonald would be better than Monk.
Leading the league in OMGs || Proud owner of a Chad Billingsley Real Doll
Unless
that was some sort of absurd pissing contest with the Phillies. In which case, YOU SURE SHOWED THEM, FRONT OFFICE.
Leading the league in OMGs || Proud owner of a Chad Billingsley Real Doll
Phillies with Carlos Monasterios in the organization: two trips to the World Series
Phillies without Carlos Monasterios in the fold: down 2-1 in the NLCS
Coincidence? OK, maybe.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
well shit
in 2006 before we acquired Greg Maddux, he took a baseball bat to the Gatorade cooler. But that’s just something you do if you play for the Cubs.
by StolenMonkey86 on Oct 20, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
The point seems to be that we could have had Lilly and McDonald near the end. Dotel was just a dumb move no matter what….James could have been in the pen.
by robotmadeofnails on Oct 20, 2010 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
He seems to be willing to pay a slight premium
with the expectations of us having a high enough payroll that it won’t matter. I mean, the Dodgers pull enough revenue in that if the owner where willing they could afford to do similar to the Yankees, just on a much smaller scale, where they overpay players to get them to come in. Maybe thats just optimism on my part though.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Correct me if I’m wrong, as I probably am, but isn’t it usually the small markets/losing teams that have to overpay to get free agents to come in? usually, if you’re a winning team, yeah you have to still pay for the guy but it’s not like you are required to pay a premium to get them to come. Big market teams theoretically pay a premium because it is a smaller percentage of their budget and won’t affect them as much as say, an extra million on the Padres budget would.
This, of course, is completely dependent on the player. Some are motivated by winning, some by playing for specific teams, some by money.
My point being, the Yankees do not pay extra for stars because they have to for them to come to NYY. They pay extra because they can get other teams to go away by doing so.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
It's hard to evaluate this move
Without knowing what the rest of the budget will be. I think it was important to bring in a reliable pitcher, and Lilly is pretty good (if old), but if this takes up a lot of the budget for the next 2-3 years, it won’t be a good signing.
we also need to know how much is being paid this year. But if I understand math, should he get all $11 million this year and our budget does increase to say $110 million, then he’s 10% of our payroll
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Really how we should evaluate moves. Not how much money they make, but what percent of the payroll they take up.
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
that’s where I’m coming from, is this guy worth a tenth of our team?
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
You really need to ask is he worth x% of our total available free agent budget, because the young players are cost controlled, it’s not a fair comparison.
alright, alright, I’m still learning finance, I barely just got the logic of monies/all monies
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I selected other
I will swag at.
Year 1: 3.0 WAR
Year 2: 2.5 WAR
Year 3: 2.0 WAR
Total: 7.5 WAR, good for right around $33M.
I am fine with the deal. Not too hot, not too cold – must be baby bears porridge.
After Cliff Lee
wouldn’t Lilly and Kuroda be the next best FA pitchers available? I can’t think of anyone else. If so, then it is pretty good that we already got one of the best options locked up. Right?
I think you’re right that after Lee it’s a pretty steep drop-off to Lilly, Kuroda and then perhaps the potential but injured like Webb and Young, and then… Harang? Arroyo? De La Rosa? Padilla?
It's a pretty shitty list indeed
the most talented ones are huge risks, and the rest is bad to mediocre, outside of Kuroda. I hope he wants to come back to LA for one final year in the ML.
De La Rosa would be worth a shot, too.
Bruce Chen?
Is Chris Young definitely done?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Hey he had a pretty good year
for a pretty crummy team (KC), though his WHIP is nothing to write home about (not bad, not great).
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Thats a good point
and should be taken into account when weighing the value of the deal.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
I really hope Lee does not go to the Yankees.
by robotmadeofnails on Oct 20, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope he signs with the Rangers. Score one for mid-markets
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
I think he will stay with the Rangers. He loved playing in Philadelphia and said he wanted to stay there/was willing to sign at a bit of a discount. I think he likes the Texas atmosphere, and it looks like a team that will contend for next few years.
by robotmadeofnails on Oct 20, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
he said that when he left Cleveland, Philadelphia, Seattle and now at Texas. He either loves everywhere he pitches, or he needs to run for office.
I think most likely non-Yankees candidates are the Nats and Rangers.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
do you really expect a pitcher about to be a FA to say
“That place was a shithole.”
He’s Cliff Lee, not Kenny Powers.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope he stays with the Rangers
if anything, someone should just be like, “Have you SEEN that bullpen? Do you really want your lead given up with 6 runs in the 9th?”
Leading the league in OMGs || Proud owner of a Chad Billingsley Real Doll
“To tell the truth, I’m not excited to go to Cleveland, but we have to. If I ever saw myself saying I’m excited going to Cleveland, I’d punch myself in the face, because I’m lying.” – Ichiro
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
is that real?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
quick google search
says probably
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
It’s why Ichiro will always be the greatest player in baseball.
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
i was about to say that
that is awesoke
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
http://www.ussmariner.com/2007/06/11/best-ichiro-quote-yet/
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
That started 2 years ago though. He could have dropped the “I enjoyed my time here and wish them all the best” line, but he didn’t. He dropped the “I would have listened if they had come to me with an offer” line and put the team in the spotlight.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
Reed Johnson,
Catcher.
Apparently. http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/05/potential-free-agents-for-2011.html
(Just a typo, but funny to think.)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Funny, but he’s the type of hitter who should think about strapping up the tools of ignorance. As an outfielder he’s a 4th OF type, as a catcher he’s a top 15 offensive catcher (based on his career OPS compared to OPS rankings of all 2010 C with at least 200 PAs). He could probably triple his salary by just showing the ability to throw a runner out.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
I'd imagine it'd be really hard to switch to catching
that relatively late in one’s career. How is his throwing arm? I i think it’s pretty good from what I recall. But not sure I see him physically as a catcher. Interesting to think about though…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I thought his arm was
pretty shitty from what I saw this year, but maybe my expectations were too high.
Reed is listed at 5’10", 180lbs on b-r.com and having seen him up close, he’s no bigger than that, so would that be a smallish catcher?
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
But, heck
Derrel Thomas was tried for several starts at C one year.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Catchers tend to be on the smaller side
Not like SS small, but I do recall one of the things that used to get talked about some regarding Piazza (and more recently Mauer) was that they were historically speaking pretty large for catchers.
Pudge Rodriguez is listed at 5’9", for example.
Rangers Lineup
Andrus SS
Young 3B
Hamilton CF
Guerrero DH
Cruz LF
Kinsler 2B
Francoeur RF
Treanor C
Moreland 1B
Wilson P
Rangers must love Moreland and hate Cantu
to run him out against CC.
by meercatjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
i wonder
if the Rangers could be a team interested in Loney in the offseason. I’m not sure how good Moreland is defensively, but with all the thunder the Rangers have in the lineup, they might like a young RBI guy with a good glove like Loney.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I think they would rather have the cost controlled
LHH 1st baseman. Moreland might be a fluke, but I love it when a guy like him totally outplays the much more ballyooed Chris Davis when they both get their shots at the gig. Chris Davis has now failed three times. To bad Chris Davis is probably what Kyle Russell will be.
by meercatjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
does Davis have sick power when he connects?
i know nothing other than the aforementioned failure.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Yankees Lineup
Jeter SS
Swisher RF
Cano 2B
Rodriguez 3B
Thames DH
Berkman 1B
Posada C
Granderson CF
Gardner LF
Sabathia P
Cool I love the early games
Looks like a good day to visit the Munch Box and bring it back to the office.
by meercatjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Showing up to the stadium
as a fan down 3-1 is the worst feeling ever. That being said… Tough shit Yankee fan.
@jay_jaffe @molly_knight I’d have gone with Swisher at 1B, Kearns in RF, Thames at DH.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I will be shocked if we do not re-sign Kuroda .
and I will not be happy if the choice was between Lilly and Kuroda and we choose Lilly.
So if we do resign Kuroda that gives us our four. Now we only need a 1st baseman, 2nd baseman, full time SS, 3rd baseman, left fielder, catcher, and a fifth starter.
In reality
we will probably sign a left fielder and a fifth starter and call it an offseason.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Kuroda.
Either way We will probably sign two pitchers a LF and call it a day.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
I thought about it
and I wouldn’t mind if he came cheap, but I bet the giants will pay him what it takes to keep him around.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
plus, this is his good year. He’ll suck next year, be average in 2012, suck again in 2013, average in 2014, suck in 2015 and retire.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
He and Beltre should be friends
but yeah I expect him to cool off next year, and get more on the market then I would want to pay him.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
I voted for option 3.
The cynic in me is saying we’re doing what the Astros did for much of the last decade. Field teams that were good enough to stay above .500 but aren’t close to winning the division and getting into the playoffs instead of doing what may needs to be done and rebuilding.
On a team that has more offensive problems than pitching, we decide to sign a pitcher at or near his full market value, despite not getting any kind of home town discount and trading for him. Again, Ned trades a for a player he could have two months later if he could just have waited. Except this time, the team was reasonably out of the playoffs when the trade was accomplished.
Ned Colletti is basically saying he believes 2011 and 2012 are the Dodgers last and best years to contend in the foreseeable future because the only guaranteed obligations the Dodgers have in 2013 are Lilly, Manny, and Andruw Jones.
And the farm system doesn’t seem equipped to replace multiple position players and pitchers within one year.
This is hyperbolic, but I like to use the hyperbolic chamber when I can.
Our offense is bad
but I find it hard to say we have more offensive problems then pitching problems when before this we had 2 starters, then Monk Haeger and Ely.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
I believe Haeger is now a free agent, no? He was out of options, got DFA’d, cleared waivers and was assigned to ABQ, but doesn’t he become a minor league FA?
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
Elbert then
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Ned's Wish List?
Hiroki Kuroda
Scott Downs
Aubrey Huff
Rod Barajas
Brad Hawpe
Feel free to add more.
by silverwidow on Oct 20, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
He was actually okay
In fact, he was almost exactly Luis Gonzalez during his LA year.
Yes, he was, but maybe it was just the people around me at the time (I had several Dodger fans who also loved the Red Sox), but I was constantly hearing how he was the best player on the Sox and that the Dodgers should just open the vault for him and he’d drag them (kicking and screaming if need be) to a Championship.
Benjie Molina
Jason Varitek
Eric Hinske
Mark Kotsay
Alex Cora
Coco Crisp if available
Magglio Ordonez
Arroyo
Bush
Francis
Millwood
FA seems loaded with quality RH relief pitcher, not so much on the LH side.
by meercatjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Do you have any idea how badly I want to kill you right now?
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Don't follow the logic
you can’t worry about the contracts in 2013 in the winter of 2010. Each future year will see more contracts for 2013. Each year could see a small infusion of talent.
In 2011 you could see Sands/Trayvon/Gordon/DeJesus/Withrow/Rubby/Russell make steps to claiming gigs in 2012
In 2012 you could see Martin/Eovaldi/Webster/ makes some steps
Or not, but you can’t look at the roster in 2010 and say we are giving up in 2013.
by meercatjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Its not worrying about 2013, its about seeing that 2011 and 2012 seems to be the last time this Dodgers team can contend. But like Humma said, the team isn’t good enough to do it anyway. Signing a guy like Lilly is a one of those ‘good’, not ‘great’ moves that contending teams make to try to help them make the post season, but the Dodgers are still no where near to making the playoffs as is.
The Astros did this all the time by signing players to overpriced contracts and they arguably had better near-elite players to do it with. (Berkman, Oswalt, Lee, Biggio, etc.)
Im a fan of the move
If the team is well built around him. If we have to watch a Barry-less version of the old Giants for the next decade then Lily is small potatoes in the ugly scheme of things.
by Lex in Brooklyn on Oct 20, 2010 10:49 AM PDT reply actions
Yikes
If we have to watch a Barry-less version of the old Giants for the next decade
by meercatjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Spot the significance.
• Phillies pitchers will bear down extra on Torres.
“It’s hard for the Giants to manufacture runs because they don’t have speed outside of Torres,” said Dodgers scout Ken Bracey. “He’s the key. He’s got to get on base for Bochy.”
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/10/14/nine-thoughts-jonathan-sanchez-phillies-footspeed-reds-pitchi/
Gosh just think what the Giants would do if Torres actually hit during the postseason
I’m having a tough time this postseason but correct me if I’m’ wrong. The Giants have won five games and lost 2. And they have done this with Torres sucking, so is he really the key? Maybe the key is not letting Cody Ross hit jacks. just saying
by meercatjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
“It’s more important to catch bad players stealing than keeping good players from hitting home runs” – Dodgers scout
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
A-gon
does this guarantee he starts the season a Padre?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 11:33 AM PDT reply actions
Shouldn't affect it whatsoever
since he’s expected to be ready for spring training.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
didn't he hurt it in ST last year?
I remember them saying he hurt it early in the year, but I may be wrong.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
If there is one thing I have learned in over 10 years of reading Baseball Prospectus and
even going back to Bill James Abstracts, countless news stories, statistics and basically following this game pretty seriously since the early 80s (beyond being a Dodger fan well before that), you cannot say in October that this team will not be a contender the next year.
see
Padres, San Diego.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
you don’t think they’ll sign Cliff Lee?
by StolenMonkey86 on Oct 20, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
For every 2010 San Diego, there is a 1009 Cubs team where they thought they had what it took to contend, and finish 7.5 games out of first place.
1009 Cubs team
Did they use clubs and rocks? :)
by silverwidow on Oct 20, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
they only lost
because constant viking attacks made them forfeit a lot of the games.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I assume you’re talking about the Yorkshire Cubs of 1009. Good team that year, very formidable. But as Tommy said, the Vikings attacks to the North of England really hampered their ability to compete in the competitive Torchwood League, so named for the Torch kindling they used for bats.
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
well cited Josie
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
They thought they were going to win it all in 1066, but we all remember what happened.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
by G.Scott on Oct 20, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think that knife as been twisted enough Mr. Scott.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, I was at lunch and needed to show Josie I know 1 thing about British history.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
yes
but the 1066 cubs have suffered enough.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
they wanted it more
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry
I was in transit while you posted. Very good Scott, 1066 is a day that shall live on everytime we refers to cow and beef using two different words
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
yes, that was my intended double meaning : )
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Dang
The guy that got the IT job I applied for at my school is sitting across from me doing the work I wish I was doing.
by robotmadeofnails on Oct 20, 2010 11:50 AM PDT reply actions
You have
the professorial beard down pat.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Try to trip him up
Start asking him questions he can’t answer. Better yet make something up that sounds technical and see if he bites. Basically fuck with him.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
Yesterday or a couple of days ago, you say Bill Dwyre was basically a dumb sack of shit. I was wondering about a couple of things. One, why did he have an anti-gambling stance and chose to consonantly make people aware of it during his time as Sports editor?And Why was he still around when he stepped down as the Sports Editor?
Don't know about the gambling stance
But it’s not uncommon for senior level people in editorial to get other jobs without any responsibility just to keep the paychecks coming.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
To think of it another way
I think George Cotliar is still on the payroll and he hasn’t worked there for 15 years.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
It was one of the things he would rail against when he could in the sports section. And then when he stepped down, one of the first things the Sports section started was a sports line section. The only reason I remember was because Dwyre actually spent an column writing how he didn’t agree with the decision.
yeah, I remember that now
my guess is he doesn’t have a problem with horse betting, since he writes a lot about that game now.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
Used to get a discount for home delivery
but that went away a few years ago. Public transportation used to be subsidized too, but I lost that when I officially became a Chicago employee event though I still worked out of LA.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
If it gets the attention whore on Larry King, absolutely. She can use Meg’s nanny as her interpreter.
by KellyStephen on Oct 20, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I made an offhand comment about Michael Jordan’s Hitler mustache last night, since he was at the ALCS game, and got a Twitter reply from @mjstache.
Heh.
Thankfully you didn’t comment about his a-hole or you’d get a reply from @mjass
by KellyStephen on Oct 20, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
clearly pushed off. I’m still mad at that non-call. Though it did give us one of the best basketball moments, I would have loved to see that shot go in and get called back for Jordan pushing off.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
- Start a fund for low income housing.
- Don’t use it for that purpose.
- Raid it to help pay for high priced properties in other wealthier cities for you and your cronies.
- ???
- PROFIT.
I hope those f’ers spend a lot of time in jail getting bent over in the shower.
by KellyStephen on Oct 20, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
The idea of someone being raped for a non violent crime
although sometimes humorous, mostly just makes me sad these days.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
No that I’m advocating rape, but what these guys have done is just as violent as physical violence in my opinion. They’ve endangered the population of the city by cutting back police and fire so they could keep their scam going. Now they’ve denied people low income housing, possibly putting some on the streets. They deserve anything they get.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
hang 'em from a lampost - thieves of the public trust
by 68elcamino427 on Oct 20, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Middle Earth?
Middle Kingdom, perhaps?
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Bleacher Report Top 12 Pitchers Under 25
Here the list:
12) Phil Hughes
11) Brian Matusz
10) Ricky Romero
09) Jaime Garcia
08) Tommy Hanson
07) Gio Gonzalez
06) Trevor Cahill
05) Yovani Gallardo
04) Clayton Kershaw
03) Mat Latos
02) David Price
01) Felix Hernandez
Felix is a no-brainer, of course, but Kershaw has an argument to be #2 here. Whatever.
Short term memories are rampant in sports analysis.
Where is Brett Anderson?
Yes, he’s better than his teammates up there.
by silverwidow on Oct 20, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Rk Player ERA+ IP Year Age SHO W L W-L% OPS+
1 Clay Buchholz 187 173.2 2010 25 1 17 7 .708 64
2 Felix Hernandez 174 249.2 2010 24 1 13 12 .520 65
3 Brett Anderson 148 112.1 2010 22 0 7 6 .538 78
4 David Price 145 208.2 2010 24 1 19 6 .760 77
5 Jaime Garcia 145 163.1 2010 23 1 13 8 .619 80
6 Jhoulys Chacin 142 137.1 2010 22 0 9 11 .450 70
7 Trevor Cahill 139 196.2 2010 22 1 18 8 .692 69
8 Madison Bumgarner 136 111.0 2010 20 0 7 6 .538 101
9 Clayton Kershaw 132 204.1 2010 22 1 13 10 .565 74
10 Matt Cain 130 223.1 2010 25 2 13 11 .542 77
11 Gio Gonzalez 128 200.2 2010 24 0 15 9 .625 77
12 Mat Latos 126 184.2 2010 22 1 14 10 .583 73
13 Max Scherzer 120 195.2 2010 25 0 12 11 .522 89
14 Tommy Hanson 117 202.2 2010 23 0 10 11 .476 81
15 John Danks 117 213.0 2010 25 1 15 11 .577 75
16 Tommy Hunter 116 128.0 2010 23 0 13 4 .765 96
17 Travis Wood 114 102.2 2010 23 0 5 4 .556 70
18 Ian Kennedy 111 194.0 2010 25 0 9 10 .474 88
19 Ricky Romero 111 210.0 2010 25 1 14 9 .609 84
20 Johnny Cueto 110 185.2 2010 24 1 12 7 .632 101
21 Chad Billingsley 107 191.2 2010 25 1 12 11 .522 89
22 Yovani Gallardo 103 185.0 2010 24 2 14 7 .667 93
23 Phil Hughes 102 176.1 2010 24 0 18 8 .692 87
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 10/20/2010.
My friend who doesn't even like baseballl
got tickets to tonight’s game. He said, he can’t wait to go to the ballpark to drink.
When the tix are free
you can rationalize paying $11 for a 24-oz Sam Adams.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Sounds like more of a typical regular season crowd at SBC Park ;-)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
If people didn't drink or buy overpriced concessions
the lines would be a lot shorter at the ballpark.
by bhsportsguy on Oct 20, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
The Rangers have hit 36.6% of the home runs this postseason
Rangers 15
Yankees 7
Giants 5
Rays 4
Phillies 3
Braves 3
Twins 2
Reds 2
How many
have been in either Texas or Yankee Stadium (both bandboxes)?
hey google
I was going to ask you last night after Tex got hurt…when was the last time a pitcher had to bat in an ALCS?
never since the DH.
Last pitcher to bat in an ALCS was Vida Blue in 1972
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure if a team had to forfeit the DH though (and just used a pinch hitter when needed, for the pitcher)
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
In Game 3 of last year’s ALCS, Matsui started at DH for the Yankees, but was replaced mid-game. Jerry Hairston played LF, but NY just pinch hit for the P when needed
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Also in Game 2 of the 1999 ALCS, though the Red Sox pitcher never batted
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Game 2 of the 1987 ALCS, Matt Nokes moved from DH to C late, but Jack Morris never had to bat.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Game 4 of the 1973 ALCS, A’s pitcher spot never came up.
Those are the only 4 instances I found.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
so if the Yankees never traded for Berkman
would Swisher be playing 1st?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 1:11 PM PDT reply actions
This may be all that the Yankees need in this game. 3-0 with CC on the mound.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
The Lilly Deal
I’m more comfortable giving Lilly this deal than I would be giving Lee 6 years at triple the total money. Lilly has shown he doesn’t rely on velocity. So I think he will be Moyeresque in the sense that yeah he can get by with an 85 mph fastball. I’m a little leery for the final year, but with Lee I woudln’t be surprised if the last 2 or 3 years of his contract are a total sunk cost.
There’s a reason why Jamie Moyer is so remarkable.
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not saying that I would vote for Jamie Moyer for the Hall of Fame, but I might vote for Jamie Moyer for the Hall of Fame. I think he’s unique in baseball history. Is what he’s done worthy of baseball’s highest honor? He doesn’t fit the mold at all, but the answer is…. probably not, most likely not, but maybe.
Is he done, or is he expected back next year?
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I would love to see him pitch at age 50, but if I were a betting man I would bet on Moyer retiring this offseason.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
If he can hang on (as a starter) until age 50, he just might get to 300 wins. I would love, love, love to see that.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I want that and Johnny Damon to get to 3000 hits.
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
speaking of Damon
I was kind of surprised (not sure why) that he has scored 1,564 runs, the 51st-highest total in MLB history.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
So assuming Damon plays long enough to get to 3000 hits, he’s gonna end up with about 1800 runs which is 17th all time. He has to get in the Hall of Fame at that point, right?
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
If Baines had 3000 I think he’d have a much better chance.
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Well sure.
I will join your crusade, just to see what would happen if Damon does reach 3000/1800
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice to have support. If he gets in the Hall I win a burrito.
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m also on the Damon3000 bandwagon.
This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man.
Looking at his B-Ref page
Damon is up there in a bunch of stuff you wouldn’t expect
63rd in doubles
74th in plate appearances
92nd in total bases
234th in RBI
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
He has an outside shot at 1800 runs. That would be…something.
Right now 16 people have 1800 runs. A-Rod will hit it next season, and Derek Jeter will likely do the same in 2012.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow. 2571 career hits.
This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man.
Damon, according to Favorite Toy
Based on his age, your player can be expected to play for 2.5 more years, at an average of 160 per year. At that rate, he will finish at 2971 for his career. He has a 43 percent chance to reach 3000.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I think if Damon gets to 2971, Kansas City gives him enough swings to get to 3000.
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe.
Let’s say he hangs on and finishes a season with 2902 hits. KC signs him and hits under .200. He sees his playing time drop and finishes with 69 hits.
That’s how he retires with 2971.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, Favorite Toy isn’t really to be taken seriously. Just for fun.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I doubt he retires midseason, and he’d only need 29 of the projected 80 hits over the second half of the third season to get to 3000.
I agree. The guy is not a hall of famer. He’s been good for awhile now, but never anything special. Never an OPS+ above 118, career avg .287 obp .355. Only ever got 200 hits once.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
If Damon’s counting stats are there, that and his time in Boston and New York — two rings — will be enough for voters to pu their thumbs on the scale and vote him in.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
If Damon makes the Hall, he’d have to be the only guy with two All Star games and never finished higher than 13th in MVP voting, right?
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Until I elect Abreu. Two ASGs, never higher than 12th in MVP (2009).
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
My HOF question
Where do people stand on Bobby Abreu? I mean, I’d vote for him, but I like a big Hall, and I don’t really have a sense of how his career is viewed.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
15 seasons, under 300 home runs, but is almost in the 300-300 club, career .888 OPS, to me he’s just a very good player.
But at the same time, I’m VERY selective of HOF inductions. Of the top of my head, the only current active older players I expect to be in the hall of fame are Pujols, Chipper, Thome, Jeter, Pudge, Ichiro, Halladay, Mo, Hoffman. Manny and ARod need steroid hate to die down for a few years before getting serious votes.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
Would you have voted for Tony Gwynn?
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Not necessarily. Gwynn outhits Abreu. They are different players.
But, depending on how you value walks, Abreu’s walks might make up for the hits Gwynn got. Abreu is actually at .400 OBP for his career; Gwynn retired at .388. Abreu also outslugs Gwynn and will finish with a higher SLG (and more doubles and more home runs).
That said, Abreu played in an era of higher offense than did Gwynn. I’m not sure how to quickly correct for that in this back-of-the-envelope comparison. They are different players from different eras.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Gwynn gets bonus points in my mind for being a beacon for a city, playing all his seasons in one uniform, and being more craftsman than anything.
For me, Gwynn transcended numbers, and his numbers were very good. Now, we’ve come to realize a decade later that batting average is roughly as useful as number of sunflower seeds eaten in odd numbered innings by left-handed shortstops, but he was still amazing to watch.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
It's rough but, OPS+ adjusts for ballpark and era
132 for Gwynn, 131 (and dropping) for Abreu.
Abreu has about 3600 H+BB. Gwynn over 3900.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Thanks
Sounds like they are actually very close in value.
Would you vote for Abreu? Would you have voted for Gwynn? Really curious to get a consensus opinion of where Abreu stands.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't like to speculate on current players
longevity plays a factor in this discussion.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
My favorite Bobby Abreu stat: he currently ranks 76th all time in Times On Base with 3,630. If things shake out right for him, he just might finish his career in the top 20, with around 4,500 Times On Base.
FYI, the player with the most times on base who is eligible for the HOF and not tainted by steroids is Rusty Staub, #39, with 4,050 TOB.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
That bit about Rusty Staub should of course say that he is the player with the most TOB who is NOT in the HOF, eligible for the honor, and not tainted by PEDs.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not saying Lilly will pitch until he’s 45 but if he’s already doing relatively well with his velocity it’s not like he needs to throw gas to get outs. It’s not a former power pitcher we have to wonder if he can get by with a dimished fastball as he starts to decline.
Will Lilly be able to get by if he drops from 85 to 82?
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Will anyone?
Also, doesn’t Lilly have to actually drop to 85 first?
His average fastball last season was 86.7m mph, per Fangraphs (86.1 with Cubs, 87.5 with Dodgers; last two years were 87.1 and 87.4).
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
per Morosi
Grienke apparently has more trade protection that previously reported.
He can block trades to about half the teams in MLB, but loses that after the July 31, 2011 trade deadline
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 2:02 PM PDT reply actions
So we went from 0% chance to get him to 0%?
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
better chances
then the Yankees and Red Sox apparently. :)
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
We will have a shot when he becomes a free agent
since I doubt he will want to go east coast!
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
followed by Robbie Cano, don’t ya know.
5-0 NYY
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s no Matt Kemp.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Listening to NYY radio online
Who is the high pitched/womanly voice guy working as analyst/sidekick? I literally thought it was a lady in the booth at first, which wouldn’t be a bad thing, just surprising. Instead I’m guessing it’s a former Yankee.
Or a jockey.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
i'm pretty sure that is a lady
can’t remember the name.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh man... it is a lady!
She’s got a very New Yawk accent so I thought it was Phil Rizzuto, but that would be even more amazing since he’s been dead 3 years.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Heh thanks to you both
i’ve heard samples of that before, just had no idea who she was. Have they played that ad nauseum on Jim Rome before? It was definitely funny the first few times…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
CLEMENSGASM!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
More Lilly thoughts
We can’t just look at it in terms of is Lilly worth $11 million a year. What are the alternatives? We have 3 open rotation slots. Sure we could fill it with Ely and Monk and Elbert and whoever, but Lilly is better than all of them. Remember if we don’t sign LIlly we need to find 3 pitchers better than he will be next year with our budget. I think Lilly can be a LAIM or even soak up above average innings the next year or two, and there is value in that. We already have Kershaw and Billingsley to anchor the front of the staff. I think Lilly will be a fine 3rd starter next year, 4th the year after and 5th the year after that.
That doesn’t set the world on fire, but LAIM’s have their value, especially since we still have 2 spots to fill . Lets face it, we have no one in the minors as a 6th starter type to be excited about. It’s not like we got a super prospect that will be ready that we’re just waiting for an injury to give him a shot.
what exactly
is a LAIM?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
surprised
this is the first time I’ve seen that on this blog, which loves it’s anagrams.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I honestly had no idea either.
I can’t bring myself to think that a 5 ERA over 200 innings is better than a 3.50 era over 140 innings and a AAAA guy over 60.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
A league average ERA playing half your games in Dodger Stadium in 2010 would have a ~3.84 ERA, not 5.00.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I always think of guys like Livan Hernandez and his 4.94 ERA over the last 5 years still making 33 starts this year. Yeah, league average is actually pretty decent, you just shouldn’t pay much for it since literally half of all starting pitchers are better than league average (that sounds stupid, but i think the point stands. Theoretically there are 75 pitchers above league average). You should be able to find league average for less than $11mil in my head.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
Nearly all of those pitchers you mention aren’t available this winter.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Eric and I have talked about this every so often
Take Jon Garland, he isn’t 2 or 3 but on a good staff he’s a great 4 because he stays healthy and churns up innings (averaging 33 starts and 200 IP since 2003).
That has value almost regardless of ERA (which is usually better than league average) and wins/losses. It has as much to do with how that saves the bullpen, etc.
Except he kept on looking to get paid like a 2/3.
He would have gotten a long term contract by now if he wasn’t looking for a post $10 million a year.
The more I look at it
the more that stat seems undervalued.
But of course, most of that is health-related as much as skill so its a risky investment.
Since he and Buerhle are the only two players to have 7 consecutive years of 190 IP and 30+ starts, that is quite an accomplishment
yeah, my only point is that you shouldn’t overpay for a LAIM. If they want to get paid 11mil to be average, tell them to take a hike.
I have no issue with the Lilly deal for 3 main reasons: we need pitching, he’s probably the best or second best feasible option, and he’s better than league average.
I’m mostly just saying teams shouldn’t hand Jon Garland a Ted Lilly contract just because he pitches a lot.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
If Joe Blanton doesn't pitch well above expectatons today
they could be in deep doo-doo (stating the obvious) though they could still win the next game and send it back to Philly as a series…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
That he's making his first start in a long while and his era is over 5
something along those lines.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Uh oh
now Berkman’s hurt too… eep. Fell down after trying to catch a foul…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Waldman just said "coccyx"
huh huh huh (beavis and butthead voice)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
LAIMS might not be exciting but they are valuable and unless we get some breakout season out of nowhere we already have our ace and number 2.
you accidentally the whole
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
you both missing
(words)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Feel free to hit the reply button in a thread btw ;-)
(just a friendly tip, not trying to sass you)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Joe Sheehan apparently dissed Dodger fans in his newsletter
when ranting about Yankees fans leaving these games early. “That’s Dodger fans, not Yankee fans” was the gist of it. Someone on DT posted an excerpt earlier. Anyone read that and feel free to drop him a tweet :)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
on the board
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 2:45 PM PDT reply actions
the other guy in the booth doing analysis for Yanks radio sounds like
Jeff Garlin from Curb. Heh.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Any team that has a veteran player riding the pine?
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Also when we benched Luis Gonzalez in 2007.
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Why would you do that if they’re equally talented?
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Dicks Lineup
Victorino CF
Utley 2B
Polanco 3B
Howard 1B
Werth RF
Rollins SS
Francisco LF
Ruiz C
Blanton P
header applies to either team
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
no it doesn't
Giants are assholes
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
and
pod six is jerks
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh sorry
“I don’t know if this a playoff series or a porn title!”
Hey-ohh!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
(exaggerated golf swing)
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
no Ibanez cause he sucks
"Pluto’s not even a planet no more, which I’m very disturbed about. I grew up when Pluto was a planet. Now, I’m 25, I turn around and Pluto’s no longer a planet. I’m going to elbow that guy in the nose." -Ron Artest
No Torres and no Uribe. Sandoval starting.
Renteria SS
Sanchez 2B
Huff 1B
Posey C
Burrell LF
Ross RF
Sandoval 3B
Rowand CF
Bumgarner P
Sabathia's done. Does Girardi realize that is the question.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Misty May says
You betcha!
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m laughing that option 2 of the Lilly poll has even 10 votes.
People expect this to be another Schmidt deal? :)
I voted for the last option
just because I didn’t see an option saying “2 solid years followed by crummy final one”
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
but you know what’s not the same, these gas prices. Boy howdy! In my dad we didn’t even need gas, we just used our feet
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
CC: 6IP 2ER 11H 7K
"Pluto’s not even a planet no more, which I’m very disturbed about. I grew up when Pluto was a planet. Now, I’m 25, I turn around and Pluto’s no longer a planet. I’m going to elbow that guy in the nose." -Ron Artest
I caught the Don Mattingly interview on 710AM. (Sorry if this has already been discussed.)
Everything Coach said was very encouraging. He is confident in the Dodgers moving forward from last year and that the just went sideways in 2010. I won’t be completely sold unless we pick up some power. He did say that we don’t have true 3-4 hitters and Kemp is still a 2 or 5. I can see Ethier being a career 3 hitter as long as there is a true 4 behind him.
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?callsign=KSPNAM&autoplay=1&id=5705031
"If your Mr. October, I'm Mr. Spring, Summer and Winter!" - Tommy Lasorda to Reggie Jackson
This was a good interview, but he wasn’t as aggressive regarding Jansen as I’d hoped. Seems like Kenley will still be wearing kid gloves in ’11.
as he should
let’s be serious. He’s been pitching for less than 2 years, has nary an offspeed pitch, and in the interview he said something to the effect of “you see these guys bust onto the scene and they don’t always keep going. Sometimes they level out, sometimes they regress”. He’s dead right. If Jansen is successful again, fantastic. But you shouldn’t count on him to be a closer in April when you’re still in October. I liked what he said about Broxton needing to be the closer for the team to be successful. Now, if only we could teach Russ Martin to do anything BUT call for a high fastball 0-2, I’ll be happy.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
Just to clarify, I don’t want Jansen to be the closer right now. But his otherworldly performance should guarantee a consistent set-up role next year, no questions asked.
I’d agree, if we didn’t have that guy Kuo or that other typically successful guy Bellisario. If you can keep Jansen, let him get to 70 innings, and call it a season.
He threw 45IP in the minors last year followed by 27 with the big club. No reason to push him beyond that. Let him sit back and watch how a major league bullpen prepares themselves. Unless of course, he’s watching Broxton. In which case, go workout with Kuo. Broxton sits in the bullpen eating bonbons and small children before every game.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
He’s right. On a good team Kemp is a 2 or 5 and Ethier is a really good #5-6. I know it won’t happen and I’m not getting my hopes up, but Dunn or Werth would make our lineup look a whole lot better.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
i really like Dunn
in addition to the power, I’ve heard the younger guys on the Nats say he’s a good “clubhouse guy” which I know the higher-ups like.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
If you get Dunn...
Do you trade Loney and Co. for a 3B? There are no 3B’s on the market!
"If your Mr. October, I'm Mr. Spring, Summer and Winter!" - Tommy Lasorda to Reggie Jackson
by Ego Crusher! on Oct 20, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Loney for Teahen straight up could be a decent deal. teahen is underperforming and is locked in at salaries that loney is likely to get anyway, and the ChiSox could lose their 1B to free agency. It’s not a perfect 1 for 1, but it could be a start. Then you have Teahen platoon with Blake at 3B with Blake hitting against lefties and teahen against righties.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
some have suggested
Loney and Co for Aramis Ramierez(obviously far-fetched but damn that’d be sick). More likely Loney traded for pitching.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
and I like Loney a lot
but as has been stated here, he’s probably the most easily replaced.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Here’s the thing. He has no value. So while he’s probably the easiest to upgrade, he’s not the easiest to replace if you plan on getting something back for him. Replacing Loney at 1B probably requires an auxiliary move.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
you say he has no value, but you are not a GM
there have been reports of teams being interested in him, like the Nats. He’s not gonna bring back an ace, but he could bring back something.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
including the Dodgers
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
haha!! oh, wait. shit.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Like Donnie Baseball said...
you can expect 90RBI a year from him.
"If your Mr. October, I'm Mr. Spring, Summer and Winter!" - Tommy Lasorda to Reggie Jackson
by Ego Crusher! on Oct 20, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
true, a GM from another team may like him from the outside looking in, but I put nothing past the fleets of scouts they have out there. Someone may take a flier on him thinking his stroke could finally translate into power, but I still think the best we should hope for in return is an MLB platoon partner for Blake.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
Aramis is a Type B FA...
He will probably sign his $14.6 player option because no one, including the Dodgers, will pay him that much. Even if our economy was pumping!!
"If your Mr. October, I'm Mr. Spring, Summer and Winter!" - Tommy Lasorda to Reggie Jackson
by Ego Crusher! on Oct 20, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
kemp is not a 2 imo
his OBP is pretty BAd … i dont want that in the front of my lineup… 5 is good for him…. ethiers a perfect 3 hitter in my mind.. whens hes on…
ethiers a perfect 3 hitter in my mind.. whens hesonfacing a righty…
Fixed
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
ethier was real good vs LHP last year before his hand injury...
i still think ethier can hit LHP..
i still think ethier can hit LHP..
so YOU’RE the one!
The hand injury screws up what we think of Ethier. The man is extremely streaky and has had other streaks like the one he had in April. The only difference is that this most recent Streak of Awesomeness started off a season.
We’ll never know what kind of season he would have had if he hadn’t been injured, but my money would say that he’d end up somewhere around where he actually ended up. Maybe a little better, but not a lot.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
clean up hitter from the pit pirates
andrew lambo…
andrus has the most swinging bunts i have evr seen
he has one every other at bat……
james loney jr.. with speed to acltually beat em out.
I'm actually okay with the way
this game is going. Texas gets to celebrate at home, and hey, more baseball is more baseball
cause I don’t wanna get stabbed in the eye
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree...
I want Lee fresh to take out the Giants or Phillies!
"If your Mr. October, I'm Mr. Spring, Summer and Winter!" - Tommy Lasorda to Reggie Jackson
by Ego Crusher! on Oct 20, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
You know how in horror movies when they shoot the bad guy and everyone assumes he’s dead so they let their guard down and then someone gets a knife in the eye…
by regfairfield on Oct 20, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Sheeyoot I just realized my soccer game tonight
which is near (north of) the Giants game starts about time that game will probably be ending. Fun times. Better get there early so I can avoid drunken celebratory Giants fans.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
yeah, and WBB promised me that the Giants wouldn't make the playoffs
and then that they wouldn’t beat the Braves, etc. So, you know, stop jinxing shit. :-P
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I'm pretty sure that has happend to him already
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
i posted on minor league ball saying a comp for sands is jason bay
and they thought i was crazy…
Trayvon did? or Sands?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude must really be serious about that 2B gig. Wouldn’t that be a pleasant surprise. Say here DeJesus, and thanks for the extra 3million in budget room.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
I can actually see it happening if Donnie is impressed enough to sell the idea to Colletti.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
i don't know what that relationship is
I know it was Joe who kept running GA out there even though Ned kept saying he wanted to cut him. Maybe that was the Joe Torre factor. Donnie won’t have quite as much sway with Ned I imagine, but his opinion will obviously be heard. I would love to see that and would be totally willing to go jump on that bandwagon. Might even buy me a Dejesus jersey.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
What I guess I mean is that somebody is going to have to take ownership of the idea. I would guess that before the AFL started there was zero heat on the De Jesus for Starting 2B idea — it was all Theriot. So let’s say he rocks the AFL. Sure, the Dodgers will notice, but for them to non-tender Theriot, somebody will have to step up and say, “I think this is a good idea.” Mattingly being manager of the AFL team makes him the most likely candidate for that, I think.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Oct 20, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
If they non-tender
Theriot, it will only be because they think they can sign him for a cheaper amount, there is no way they do it on the shot DeJesus might be a viable candidate to play 2B next year.
Well
a) do you think they could non-tender him and sign him cheaper?
b) if non-tendered would he re-sign with us?
Disclaimer: I know there’s no way of knowing the answer to #2.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
The larger point is that non-tendering Theriot is independent of DeJesus, who has almost literally no chance of playing a large role for the 2011 Dodgers.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
No I get that. As a side, but related, topic, I think Theriot isn’t worth anymore than David Eckstein got this year, but also don’t think we could sign him for the $1mil the Padres paid for Eckstein. If non-tendered, what is a reasonable contract for Theriot to come back. If it’s higher than $1mil, should we look at signing Eckstein instead?
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
He's worth less than Jamey Gamer
So what, maybe something in the 1.5-2m range? Still seems high to me, but if he were signed for that, I’d tolerate it without a huge amount of whining.
I don’t know who else it would be. I guess DeJon and Logan are down there, and DeJon is the one who suggested belisario be sent back up to big camp ST 2009, so his say clearly matters.
I don’t expect any of this Dejesus talk to get him anything more than a ST invite and a starting gig in ABQ, but it’s fun to talk about.
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
non tender Theriot
and let him compete with Jamey for starting 2B?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 20, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Use that money to sign a better 4th/5th pitcher
and I say hell yeah.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Hell I say do it anyways
Theriot isn’t much if at all better then Carrol at the plate
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Hey
is anyone understanding the goings on with the Dodgers twitter accounts? @DodgertownUSA was the one we were told to follow, while @Dodgers just tweeted whatever went up on Dodgers.com. Now they’re switching and I don’t know who’s on first.
so what was @Dodgers before, just some bloke I was following?
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
@Dodgers before was the sort of feeder account, that only posted links to Dodgers.com.
They actually control both know; it may have been an issue of acquiring the name from an aggregator or something.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
1949 AL MVP voting
anyone else find the #2 and 3 vote getters a little fishy?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1949.shtml#ALmvp
Please forgive the ignorance here, but why was Phil Rizutto an MVP runner up in 1949 and a MVP winner in 1950? I realize his 1950 OPS is good, but in 1949 the only thing he led the league in was sacrifice bunts and his OPS was .711. Even going by the more archaeic stats, his TSL was .275/.352/.358/.711
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
I'm sorry
you think voters of 1949 looked at stats?
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Nobody cared about triple-slash lines in 1949
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Joe Dimaggio was hurt
Boston and New York were in a tough race. Williams did win.
1950, the Yankees won again.
Phil Rizzuto probably got a long well with the writers and played SS for a championship team.
I enjoyed the approach James took in that book (Whatever Happened To The Hall of Fame?), though.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I knew that was coming from someone.
But at the same time, they probably looked at runs scored, home runs, RBIs, and batting average, and although he had 712 plate appearances in 1949, he only managed 5 HRs, 65 RBI, and a .275 batting average. Maybe they looked at the 110 runs scored and thought he did it all by himself?
I don't always walk, but when I do, it's into Mordor.
He played a premium position and was seen as the leader of a championship team.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
2-5 look weird to me…oh, and Ted Williams was a good baseball player.
Signed,
Captain Obvious
by robotmadeofnails on Oct 20, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Look through the MVP voting through the 40s-60s
and you’ll find alot of guys like that. It was pretty common. Hell, I like Maury Wills as much as the next Dodger fan, but he finished in the top 10 in MVP voting four times, and won it once… in a year where Frank Robinson went .342/.421/.624, no less (39HR, 136RBI)
I hate “Tex Message” more than all of em.
But like I said last night, if he didn’t do that crap, I think he’d be great.
“You’re on the Mark, Teixeira” makes me baby-punchy
by Eric Stephen on Oct 20, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
BTW
Mariano Rivera has given 5 or more runs (6 once), three times in his career, the last time was in 2005 against Boston.
The most runs he has given up in a post-season appearance is 2 (twice). The man has only given up a run (or those 2 runs), 11 times in 92 appearances.
Ominous tweet that made me laugh
from Despio.com:
Rangers got nuthin’ to worry about, they didn’t need to clinch today, they got Prior and Wood for 6 and 7.
Are West Coasters upset that their playoff home games start so much earlier than during the regular season?
I’d hate to still be at work while trying to watch playoff baseball.
Someone’s going to be upset, and I think fans in Philadelphia are thankful that we aren’t making them stay up past midnight, and West Coast fans, I mean who does work after five anyhow? That is organize your desk and burn new business time
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
thus the invention of the car radio…oooooooo…..it’s fancy and has knobs…..ooooo
by Josie Becker on Oct 20, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
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