Dodgers 2011 #4 Prospect Chat
by Brandon Lennox on Nov 1, 2010 7:45 AM PDT
in Los Angeles Dodgers Minor League Report
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PrintZach Lee, who actually got quite a bit of support in both the #1 and #2 prospect vote, was finally able to pull out a victory to become the TBLA #3 prospect. Lee won by a relatively large margin as he received 28 votes. He was followed by Rubby De La Rosa (18 votes), Dee Gordon (7 votes), and Kenley Jansen (6 votes). Thus far, the TBLA Prospect List looks like:
1. Jerry Sands
3. Zach Lee
So TBLA’s top 3 prospects include a power hitting 1B/outfielder, a speedy center fielder with solid tools across the board, and a high school pitcher who has a lot of potential but has yet to throw a professional pitch.
I’m not adding any additional players into the mix for this vote since I already added Withrow and Miller last round. Feel free to suggest names for the next round, however. We are going to continue voting using the comment method, so refer to the fanpost and submit your vote in the comments. I’m going to leave this vote open for approximately 24 hours, which should give everyone a chance to vote. We will close the vote at 8:30 AM PST on 11/2/10.
To make it obvious for those not reading the whole article, Click Here To Vote.
As always, use this thread to talk about the voting and other things, and only use the other Fanpost to submit your votes.
The round 4 candidates (ages as of 2011 opening day):
Kenley Jansen (23.5 years old) RHP – Dominated the minor leagues, and then went on to record the 4th lowest major league rookie ERA in major league history (min 25 innings) at 0.67. Still technically a rookie heading into 2011, major league batters also hit just .130 against him. Will almost certainly stay in the bullpen for the rest of his career.
Dee Gordon (22.75 years old) SS – Has a .297 career minor league batting average and has 126 stolen bases over the past 2 seasons, and scouts still describe him as very raw with a ton of potential. Was one of the younger players in AA in 2010, and despite making a lot of errors at shortstop, many believe he has the tools to one day be a plus defender.
Allen Webster (21 years old) RHP – Webster has been excellent in his 3 minor league seasons, and has a career minor league ERA of 2.76 in 218.1 innings. While his strikeout rate dropped a bit in 2010, his 131.1 innings with the Loons as 20 year old almost doubled his workload from the previous year, so it was expected that he’d tire a bit. He has a low 90’s fastball that hits 94 and has a lot of sink, and his curveball is very solid.
Rubby De La Rosa (22 years old) RHP – Always known for his strong fastball, De La Rosa burst onto the prospect scene in 2010 with a 2.37 ERA in 110.1 innings and won the Dodgers minor league pitcher of the year award. His season was split pretty evenly between LoA and AA, and he actually improved most of his stats upon getting promoted to Chattanooga. He was clocked at 100 mph this year and also has a power slider and a changeup that has potential.
Aaron Miller (23.5 years old) LHP – Was great in the California league, but struggled during his 23 innings in AA. He doesn’t throw real hard, generally working in the low 90’s, but he has great control. He also has a power slider and is working on a changeup.
Chris Withrow (22 years old) RHP – TBLA’s #1 prospect last year, Withrow had a very disappointing 2010 season in AA. However he was one of the youngest players in the Southern League at just 21 years old, so he still have plenty of time to improve his game. He still has great stuff, as Baseball America’s most recent report says that "he features a mid-90s fastball that bores and sinks, and he also spins a plus curveball in the mid-70s."
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Aren't they Victoria Secret?
of course they’re poor quality. They’re meant to be ripped off.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
I had scheduled this to run
But I’m stuck in traffic so I can’t post the fanpost yet because u can’t schedule that. So give me about 30 min or maybe Phil can make the fanpost and link the 2 posts
by Brandon Lennox on Nov 1, 2010 7:49 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Those pretty fans girl will search Rubby...
"Oh ville lumière, sens la chaleur de notre coeur, vois-tu notre ferveur quand nous marchons près de toi. Dans cette conquête, chasser l'ennemi, enfin pour que nos couleurs brillent encore..."
"Nous sommes les parisiens (clap clap clap clap) et nous chantons en choeur (clap clap clap clap). Nous sommes les parisiens (clap clap clap clap), fidèles à nos couleurs (clap clap clap clap). Lololo lololo, lololo lololo"
Rubby got my vote for #'s 1-3
he gets it for #4 as well.
Still think he has the highest upside and the one pitch you can’t teach.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
I went with Kenley
There’s a chance he’ll be our closer at some point next year, and we know he’ll be playing an important role in the bullpen. Rubby has a lot of potential, Kenley is already making use of it.
Jansen not a prospect
By definition he is still a prospect, though I could see why some would not include him. Though, if we exclude the definition, we also have to say Russ Mitchell made the big show so he must not be a prospect. John Ely, Jon Link, Schlichting, Hu, and Elbert aren’t prospect either.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
You get my point though. I just wanted to respond to LBB here instead of cluttering up the vote with a discussion topic.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
Sorry I was in class
or would have answered earlier. My argument is just that I think Jansen has ‘arrived"—he will be a key member of the 2010 bullpen. In my mind, that means he’s moved past the maybes of being a prospect. Obviously I see where you guys (and David Young in the poll) are coming from.
by Little Blue Bicycle on Nov 1, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
In my mind 27 IP
is a tease, not an arrival. I know you remember Yhency Brazaoban. Heck, John Ely looked great after 27 IP.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
The power, the command, the way he finished—wishful thinking maybe, but I think he’s the real deal. Ely was always one bad bit of control away from disaster. Jansen overpowers.
by Little Blue Bicycle on Nov 1, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Rubby
Voted for him last round. Could get a cup of coffee next year if he is able to repeat his success (which Chris Withrow knows is tough to do.)
The Nader effect at TBLA
I kind of want to go with Gordon, but will probably vote Rubby, because I want to see Rubby beat Jansen and Rubby/Gordon are basically interchangeable to me. They are both B prospects (maybe B+ on an optimistic day).
Where I'd rank the next bunch
As an FYI.
4) Rubby <- Potential to be SP 3
5) Jansen <- Proven he can get out major league batters as reliever
6) Withrow <- Potential to be SP 3 but failed in AA
7) Gordon <- Potential to be light hitting SS, but hasn’t put in a solid year yet
I realize that a SS is more valuable then SP 3, but I view Withrow as being closer to realizing that ceiling then Gordon.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with that order, though depending on if Gordon can reach his ceiling he could move up to 5 for me.
What do you say his ceilign is?
He’ll have to hit some to be a top ranking, otherwise even if he has flawless defense he’s as valuable as Chin Lun Hu (who also showed he could hit some)
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2010 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Completely disagree with the Chin Lung Hu comparison. At some point you have to pay attention to scouting consensus and not just statistics. Most scouts say his true ceiling is a leadoff hitting, stolen base, triples machine with decent gap power and a plus glove at SS. That would be a pretty valuable player.
Don’t know for sure, but I know Hu didn’t have 80/80 speed. Gordon is the only player in our system who maxes out a grade at a certain skill.
Personally, I think speed is an undervalued skill. If he plays plus D and gets on base at a good clip, I don’t care if he never slugs higher than .400. He will be a runs/steals machine and will cause a lot of problems for opposing pitchers.
Yeah, I think speed is the deciding factor between the two. Hu was basically known as defensive wiz but not much with the bat. Most scouts are saying Gordon’s gap power will come.
ouija board
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Some scouts
compare him to Jimmy Rollins who didn’t really fill out or slug over .400 until his 4th year in pro ball. Rollins was younger though.
that is what is keeping me off the Gordon bandwagon
almost 23 + still wimpy = already running out of time.
Hu slugged .508 at 23 years old in AA Jacksonville.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Does Rubby De la Rosa translate directly to Rubby of the Rose? Or is it something more like Rosey Rubby?
Or does it rfeer to the color? Pink Rubby? Pink Rubies would be pretty damn valuable.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
Rubby
Loved the “Derek Lowe with a plus-plus fastball” comp someone mentioned.
If he happens to win, I’m going Webster next.
I get the overwhelming feeling that even if Dee Gordon reaches his absolute highest ceiling, we’re talking about a good defensive shortstop with a .650 OPS and 70 stolen bases. It just feels like early 2000’s Luis Castillo with less pop.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
You couldn't have less pop then Luis Castillo
I think you meant early Luis Castillo without the plate discipline.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Is there any sort of formula that adjusts ops using steals?
Like subtracting obp for caught stealings, but adding slugging pct for succesful stolen bases?
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
You just created it
there should only be a couple calculations involved. Can you have this on my desk by lunch?
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
I know it wouldn't be perfect
because a “double” that was achieved via stolen bases doesn’t further advance the other runners on the base path.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
That’s one problem. I think eQA does all that stuff, plus it properly penalizes you for CS attempts.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I loved eQA, but since I stopped subscribing to BP I don’t follow it much anymore. I was under the impression even they had given up on it. Are they still using it?
No clue. I never subscribed so my only real exposure to it was Jon at DT who used to use it in his analysis.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
They really missed the boat
by not allowing selection criteria with their stats. I used Eqa quite a bit but it was so much work to get the comparison data compared to simply using OPS+. Plus the algorithm was not public. Who knows if they did it right without proper peer review. At least that is what I remember. I could be wrong on that. Anyone know?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Plus, know it’s TAV (total average), or whatever they’re calling it.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
It does seem to me that a reasonable person could put any of the likely top six (Sands, Robinson, Lee, de la Rosa, Gordon, Jansen) in any order and still be a reasonable person.
That may be OK, or it may be a big problem. All of these guys need to take a big step forward next year, except Lee, who just has to show he was worth the money, and Jansen, who needs to keep doing what he’s doing.
Now with 33% more Kavula
As much as my postive side wants to get sucked in by Gordons scouting
side, my
Mariano Duncan
Wilton Guerrero
Rudy Law
Roger Cedeno
Tom Goodwin
Glen Burke
memory tells me to resist. Jose Offerman had some pop and plate discipline, he’d have been a fine offensive SS if he could have fielded. I’m lumping the CF in with the SS because every “speedy” player at SS or CF has failed to live upto expectations either offensively or defensively. Roger Cedeno could run with the best but he’s still searching for that fly ball in the gap that he has no idea where it is going.
Gordon may break the string of failed speedy prospects but until they do I will not consider them. I only expect failure. This may not be the best way to judge our prospects but I only have the entire history of Dodger prospectdum since 1980 telling me to beware.
For some reason we have had some success at 2nd base but not at SS. Not in CF. Not since the days of Lopes/Sax/Willie Davis have we grown our own speedsters and watched them prosper. E Young came back after he was 30 to give us what we expected when he was a pup. I’ll expand on this later.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Kind of what I was thinking. He’s just so much more likely to fail than succeed. I know all prospects are, but he has nothing to rely on but his 80 speed and even with it he gets caught stealing a lot against minor league pitchers and catchers. Can’t he just spend the next 18 months with Maury teaching him to bunt and get good jumps?
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
I understand why speedy players are looked at with skepticism, but it seems like speed, especially speed on the level that Gordon has would be viewed more positively. You can’t acquire that speed like you can other skills. He can improve his defense, his strike zone judgement, and his baserunning skills. This is probably why scouts like him, he has something that few possess and is very raw in the other areas from lack of experience.
I would be thrilled if he turned into Jose Reyes. In fact he’d probably be my new favorite Dodger next to Kid K. But Reyes is also 6’1 200lbs to Gordon’s 5’10 150. I just don’t think the frame is there for him to be anything more than Tom Goodwin.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
Yes, I don't understand the Reyes comparisons
has anyone seen Reyes’s legs when they say these things? The frame is quite important in all of this. Gordon may prove us all wrong but he has no current comp playing that is an above average player. Even Juan Pierre would bounce his ass off the teeter totter.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
To be fair
I brought up reyes first, OB12 didn’t mention him at all. But I do hear the comparisons because they are young speedy SS. The problem is, if you think Dee Gordon will become Jose reyes, you’ve never actually looked at either one of them.
I think what you said earlier is probably right. Early Luis Castillo without the plate discipline. But, who knows. in the 2003 Marlins equation maybe Trayvon is our Castillo with the walk rate and Gordon is our Pierre instead of the other way around.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
Reyes had a decent amount of power in the minors. I haven’t heard the Reyes comp before. Lots of scouts have made the Rollins comp, as Rollins’ power came on late (in terms of development in his pro career).
Personally, I’m not expecting any power of Gordon. IF he does succeed, I’m hoping for a true leadoff hitter who can hit around .300, get on base, be a menace on the basepaths, score a lot of runs and give pitchers headaches. I know runs is a counting stat, but to me its an important stat nonetheless. There are plenty of players who have never slugged more than around .400, but have been immensely more valuable than their sub .800 OPS would suggest. Its hard to purely value speedsters in terms of OPS.
I understand all those expectations
and I would be quite happy if he fulfilled them. No one has yet from within our own system since Lopes/Sax, though many have tried. I see nothing to suggest Gordon is any different then those who proceeded him. This is a new decade in a new century it would be nice if he broke the old mold.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Who is comparing Gordon to Reyes? G. Scott kinda tosses that name out, but then immediately tears down the comparison. Are there scouts out there comparing them?
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
From last year’s Keith Law Top 100 on ESPN (Gordon was 39) had this:
Two evaluators independently told me they think he’s Jimmy Rollins with less power.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
True or False
Jimmy Rollins with less power is a useless player
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
false?
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
I’d like to think 2010 Rollins is Rollins w/o power, and he still achieved a 2.3 WAR in 88 games
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
B-Ref has him at 1.7
If Rollins played a full year, he would have taken a more of an offensive hit to his WAR numbers in both fangraphs and B-Ref.
His value on defense wouldn’t be enough to offset the bad offense he was putting up. WAR is a rate stat, but the offensive and defensive components are sort of counting stats in the way they’re set up as.
At least on Fangraphs, the replacement and positional adjustments are adjusted for playing time.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Still
The overall point is, that is not a useless player.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
OK, I went over the top with the word “useless.” Allow me to back off of that.
True or False:
Jimmy Rollins with less power is not somebody you want as a starting shortstop for 162 games for a half-decade.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
At a major league minimum salary for three years, then a few arb years, a 2-win player (right in the middle of SS, let’s say slightly below average) is an asset.
Count me in.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Definitely
Not very players get the 80/80 speed grade.
Not useless
but someone who can steal an MVP award. We’d take a powerless Rollins as our starting SS. The bar is not high when Furcal is hurt.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Over the last several years I've seen it raised
I actually read more then TBLA.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I don't
I count on you for that!
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
A part of me still thinks its because both players are black.
And I think the Reyes-Gordon comparison is when Reyes first came into the league. He didn’t start walking until his 23 age season, about 2 seasons worth of games under his belt.
I do remember
that people where down on Reyes as a leadoff guy because of this.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Torii Hunter hates you
Jose Reyes is a fake black guy.
Reyes was just another fast kid from the Dominican. The whole “you can’t walk off the island” still applies, and they were probably worried he’d never develop that skill because he was never taught to.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
the two greatest DR "walkers" today
Manny and Pujols came here as teenagers. Taking a walk is truly an American Pastime
US kids are taught plate discipline as they put on cleats. Hell, kids even wait for the right pitch in Tee-ball.
Latin players sit at the field all day and take hacks at anything within their reach.
Fuck the Rangers in 2010
You'd think that but the fastest players
in our system have never been able to turn that speed into a better then average major league baseball player. Matt Kemp had power to go with his speed so he is not in that category. Steve Sax is the last player who was able to turn speed and be a useful addition to a lineup at an early age from our system.
From that group above those are only the guys who made it, not the countless others who simply evaporated before they even go to the majors.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
LOL
fauxhemian
"Two Hipsters Angrily Call Each Other ‘Hipster,’ " a headline in The Onion put it most succinctly
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
my LOL
Then scarves were worn as bandannas, as when Mary-Kate Olsen sported one, like a cannibal Pocahontas, hungry enough to eat your arm.
Mary-Kate Olsen is skinny jokes
are a little easy, don’t you think?
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
So now that Jerry Sands is our #1 prospect
I go back to look at what DeJon Watson said to Ken Gurnick about Sands the other day:
He’s an accomplished outfielder and first baseman, and we are working with him to get ground balls at third base, just to get another glove in his bag.And I worry that what Sands really projects to be is a corner utility guy. Maybe Texas’ flailing / SF’s success is making me too pessimistic.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I read that more as, we have a no real prospects at 3B so why not see if this kid can handle it. If he can’t then we are confident that he could start in RF, LF, or 1B.
That
would be the optimistic interpretation.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
He's going to be our Youkliss
a guy the scouts simply weren’t sold on who went onto become one of the best players in the AL.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
if only Sands had a cool nickname in the minors like “The Greek God of Walks.” :)
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Seems forced.
I, for one, can’t wait to tell other teams that they just got Sands up in their crack.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't follow
how a guy with the last name of Sands and the nickname Sandman is forced. Seems natural to me.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
It’s the same “everyone needs a nickname” theory that gets people to call Shawn Green “Greenie” and Eric Stults “Stultsy.”
I long for the days of nicknames like “high pants” and “leatherneck” or something like that.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I like Bella, cause it’s both feminizing and insulting
by Josie Becker on Nov 1, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
On that note
we should now start calling Belisario “Mushroom.”
A play off Bella, and since we don’t know the reason for his leave of absence in the middle of the season, we are free to speculate. :)
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought you meant that his head looked like a mushroom
by TopDeckTrueBlue on Nov 1, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I call him Donatello
because he looks like a TMNT
Leading the league in OMGs || President of the Billz Appreciation Club
I just call him looney
when I’m in the mood to.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Can't agree with this logic
adding an “S” to a name is lazy nicknaming, while the Sandman is an actual fictional character, who also happens to have a great song. Blake Superior is bad nicknaming.
OT – but nothing is more embarrassing then going to a Clipper game and hearing Clipper Daryl chanting MVP when Griffin is shooting free throws. JFC how moronic is that?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
When I hear "Sandman"
this is the first song I think of. If you are of a certain age (the age of my friends’ older brothers!), you spent too much time sitting cross-legged in your bedroom trying to play this.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
One of the first songs I learned to play on guitar was this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2jfV1DzcuQ
I thought it would be
this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
See, and I thought the first song David Young tried to play would have been
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlr90NLDp-0
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
Best Nickname in Baseball History
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
So basically a Casey Blake:)
If our number one prospect ends up having a Casey Blake career but starts on it much sooner, meaning he plays 3rd when we don’t have a 3rd baseman, 1st when we don’t have 1st baseman, outfield corners when we don’t have one but usually manages to post a plus .800 OPS wouldn’t that be an okay outcome for a number one prospect?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
It would be OK
but I voted for a guy whose ceiling is a #1 or #2 starter, which would be better.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Ideally our system would have a stud hitter and pitcher. Since we don’t have that hitter and may or may not have that pitcher, I think it’s an OK outcome, but clearly not ideal.
There are 5,250,000 reasons to consider Zach Lee a stud pitcher
in the system.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
There’s 55 million reasons to consider Darren Dreifort as our best pitcher of the last 15 years outside of Kevin Brown.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
Fair enough - both had leverage
Still, Logan White didn’t walk on the deal.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
It seems a bit underwhelming for a #1 prospect IMO
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
So what you're saying is
Jerry Sands projects as Tyler Houston
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
No, I'm not saying that at all
for one thing Tyler Houston was a converted catcher, for the 2nd, Dave is reading something into Dejon Watson’s comment which I don’t think exists.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
It is quote gazing, which is fraught with peril
I have read that comment from Watson several times and interpreted it several different ways. Just depends on my mood, I guess.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
It is usually a fringy guy
that needs to “get another glove in his bag”.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
In most cases I would agree, but here we have no depth at 3B and an aging Blake. Watson knows this and I think his comment is more of an admission of an organizational fact rather than review of this particular player.
I read it as
Man, we are so impressed with how he handles 1st base, considering he’s also a solid outfielder, we’d be crazy given the fact we have no 3rd baseman in the system, if we didn’t see if he could also handle that spot. With Kyle Russell ready to play RF soon, and Loney ready to blossom as a real 1st baseman we have to find a spot for him.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
No tongue in cheek
that is really what I think DeJon thinks.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
You really still think the org is high on Loney? Or are they simply supporting the guy because there is no other option for the Dodgers?
He is making 4.5 mil next year
as one of the worst hitting 1b in the league. It can’t be that hard to find a gritty veteran who will cost that or less that can’t produce more, so I can’t imagine they don’t think he is going to get better if they aren’t cutting bait on him.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
That "gritty veteran"
won’t get any better though; he is what he is. There is still hope that Loney improves from where he is now.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Right
All I’m just saying if the coaches didn’t expect Loney to get better, they could get someone fairly easily who could surpass his production from this year for the same or less cash.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Hope springs eternal
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Loney is the thing with feathers
That perches at first base
and has great glove - but not the bat -
to lift us to first place
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
strike fail. Damn you emily dickinson for all your dashes!
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
We shall find out
how they handle the 1st base situation but I’d bet they think he is still their first baseman for 2011. I will be very surprised if they trade or non-tender him. I think the only people talking about non – tender or trading him are analysis and not front office.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I’m sure he’ll be the first baseman next year, but I still wonder if its because they want him there or are too scared/unwilling to throw some money at signing someone. Didn’t Torre make note near the end of the season that Loney would really need to improve? This makes me think they are at least aware of the fact that he isn’t doing a very good job.
Torre said the whole core needs to improve (Kemp, Ethier, Loney, Martin), and he also said that he thinks they can and will.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
The first part was the truest thing Torre has ever said
our future depends on the second part.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I bag on Loney with the best of em
but I really do think his average went down because he spent all year trying to be someone he isn’t. If they had let him continue being an opposite field single/pull side doubles hitter, he’d have hit his usual .300 with a higher walk/K rate. As soon as you start pushing power on someone as a requirement, it changes the entire approach at the plate. You go from taking what the pitcher gives you and saying ‘thanks for the free base’ to waiting for a pitch you can drive even at the cost of often putting yourself in a bad hitter’s count.
I think we can expect 2009 Loney to return next year, just not 2007 Loney.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
What makes you think they pushed power on him?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
he just looked like he was trying to pull the ball a lot more than usual. He really does have a lot of pull power, just not the right trajectory most times.
I’m trying to find quotes I think I remember about the Dodgers staff wanting him to pull the ball more.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
I would believe that if Loney ever had a walk rate close to 2009.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Get another glove in his bag
has been added to my list of things that sound dirty but aren’t.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
Sounds like something Zed might say before
“Get the Gimp”.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
If there were a “Least Valuable Player” award for the World Series, would he be getting it this year? Or is it like the opposite of the MVP, where no matter how crappy you are you can’t get it if you’re on the winning team?
zito
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
apparently no
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
SNL was it's usual meh self this week
Love seeing Jon Hamm do robin Williams!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
It was so good
I had to explain to my niece and nephew (a) who he was; and (b) how great an impression it was
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
gordon fo rme..
Gordon has higher ceiling and critical position . Rubby #5 choice when he developed those offspeed pitches he will move up..then Jansen..#6 ..stud CL
Withrow will barley make my top 10..AWebster is next in line for pitchers..right after Jansen..then AMiller then ..maybe at 10..Withrow..
I’m curious why Miller would be rated higher than Withrow
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
AMiller had a great yr in A+..lowest ERA and OBA of any starter .100ip..got tired and went up to AA and had some good starts and some bad starts.. his overall production is better than Withrow’s.AMiller has ceiling of #2sp same as Withrow.
IMHO the probably of hitting that ceiling is greater with Miller than Withrow.
And Withrow also dominated the Cal League at a younger age.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Miller only has two pitches
That’s a stretch for a number 2.
by Julio Nievas on Nov 1, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Miller has 3 pitches… a FB that he throws 90-95mph… a slider and a changeup..the changeup is the one he needs to develop more..just like Withrow needs to develop his changeup..
here is info from BA on Miller..#8 best in Cal league..
When at his best, Miller works with a low-90s fastball that touches 95 mph and he locates it to both sides of the plate. He also has a power slider that he’s still learning to command as well as a changeup that has some sink but needs refinement. He’s still polishing his control and command as well.
Though Miller was effective when he rejoined the 66ers, his fastball velocity dropped to 88-92 mph. That wasn’t completely unexpected, however, because he was a two-way player at Baylor and 2010 was his first full year as a pitcher. He threw a career-high 125 innings in the minors, up from 87 in 2009.
Brian Falkenborg
This “old friend” has flat out dominated in Japan.
Last two seasons:
1.35 ERA
145/17 K:BB in 113.2 IP
How does this translate to the States and should we bring him back?
Great name though
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Since Eric and Delias have OT broken hearts
I went to Long Beach’s Haunted Queen Mary thing last night (dressed as Kaylee as three of you and Michael guessed) and it was surprisingly great. Maze-wise and atmosphere wise I’d say it’s on par with Knott’s Scary Farm though it loses out by not having rides to go on after you’ve done the Mazes. Still, we spent a good four hours there getting the pants scared off of us so totally worth the money.
nah. They’ve got mazes that go through the pool, the boiler room, and one that just wanders through the old med ward.
by Josie Becker on Nov 1, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Helps that they have actual ghosts on board:)
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
yeah that ship is way super creepy, and while I’m looking at something way creepy, some out of work college kid yells boo and I take off running. It was a great night.
by Josie Becker on Nov 1, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m more angry that Pittsburgh lost last night than the USC loss. If the Steelers won, then tonight was high-scoring I would have won a nice chunk of change in an office pool. :(
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
If the Steelers had won...
It didn’t matter who won tonight for me. I needed…
exactly 50 points = I would have split the pot 3 ways
51+ (which is the actual O/U) = I would have won outright
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not entirely convinced
that it will be high scoring, but its the Texans, anything can and will happen.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
If it’s not high scoring, I’ll eat my hat.
Both teams have incredible offenses and terrible defenses.
Both teams also have defensive lines
that can take over the game, and the Texans will be most benefited by keeping the ball on the ground and grinding the game out. Plus, even though Manning is a god, he is missing Addai(great pas blocking RB), all world Clarke, and Collie, with them being replaced by a rusty as hell A Gon. If I had to put money on it I would expect it to be high scoring, but I won’t bet hat eating on it.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
If the Texans keep the ball on the ground, as you say, Foster will be scoring TD after TD. It’s not going to be clock killing when Indy’s run D is like Swiss Cheese.
Also, Addai not being there to pass protect isn’t going to change the complexion of the game. Peyton will still have plenty of time to throw to Wayne and Garcon.
Final score should be something like Indy 31 Hou 24.
I have very little faith in that Indy line
its been better but…
I also don’t have faith in the Texans red zone offense. If they can keep being good in the red zone tonight I will take that back, but historically our zone blocking has been crap in the red zone, but Foster has been awesoke leaping over dudes to get in. I’m stoked for this game thats fo sho.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
I was referring to breaking hearts in the card game Hearts. You can’t lead with a heart unless someone has broken hearts in regular play.
Thus in the metaphor, no one can go off topic until the boss has gone off topic. I wasn’t referring to the Oregon loss. Though, funny!
In explaining all this, I realize I have assured myself a position as a quirky but never understood professor who laughs at her own jokes.
by Josie Becker on Nov 1, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
only if you continually post OT things that no one responds to. Only then have truly shot the moon
by Josie Becker on Nov 1, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm sure I've pulled that off
at least once
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
It would be too long an offseason if we didn’t go off topic.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
If we didn’t go off-topic, Eric would come to the railroad trestle and beat me with my own bottle of gin after my 532nd “there’s no hope” comment.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Shit, guess I’m out.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Lakers girls in Halloween costumes yesterday
You’re welcome!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
That's a beauty!!!
Catwoman!!!!! :love:
"Oh ville lumière, sens la chaleur de notre coeur, vois-tu notre ferveur quand nous marchons près de toi. Dans cette conquête, chasser l'ennemi, enfin pour que nos couleurs brillent encore..."
"Nous sommes les parisiens (clap clap clap clap) et nous chantons en choeur (clap clap clap clap). Nous sommes les parisiens (clap clap clap clap), fidèles à nos couleurs (clap clap clap clap). Lololo lololo, lololo lololo"
The Clipper Spirit did the same thing
and they looked much better in their own costumes then the ones they wear.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I see a Lady Gaga outfit :O
"Oh ville lumière, sens la chaleur de notre coeur, vois-tu notre ferveur quand nous marchons près de toi. Dans cette conquête, chasser l'ennemi, enfin pour que nos couleurs brillent encore..."
"Nous sommes les parisiens (clap clap clap clap) et nous chantons en choeur (clap clap clap clap). Nous sommes les parisiens (clap clap clap clap), fidèles à nos couleurs (clap clap clap clap). Lololo lololo, lololo lololo"
You know what would be an even better picture?
The looks on the faces of the Giants and their fans win the Rangers win the World Series.
I’m dreaming again of course.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Did you really switch your username because you thought people were confusing you with Michael White?
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
it's why I had to change my handle
from “undermeercat”
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I wish we had a Michael Black
who was the polar opposite of Michael White.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
We could get the whole lot of The State to join, and tell them middle names aren’t allowed.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I can understand it
I had to hunt down and murder Humma Kuvolo, just to stop the confusion.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I have a sudden urge
to eat pizza.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Nov 1, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have to flag this
for reminding me of my pizza torture last night
Leading the league in OMGs || President of the Billz Appreciation Club
The real question
is what did you learn from the ordeal?
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
that I hate everyone
look, I’m turning into a meercat! HELP!!!!!
Leading the league in OMGs || President of the Billz Appreciation Club
Hey, it is my job to warn everyone of danger
and dig holes
lots of holes
and play alot
but mostly to dig holes so I can play alot without getting eaten
But I hate no one.
Faker
fake haters make it hard for the real haters. As Jon Stewart said when you paint someone with the racist brush, you are doing a disservice to the racists who have worked their whole lifes to earn that title.
Faker? Moi?
See, I think it’s too easy to hate someone just because of the color of his skin. I don’t hate anyone for such skin-deep reasons. No, I hate people truly, madly, deeply — I hate them for the content of their character. I hate people not for their race, but for who they are. Which is to say, human beings.
Now with 33% more Kavula
o dear
Halloween is simply the worst time to order pizza unless you wait for the sun to go down. There is a mad mad mad rush for an hour or two then dead silence. That hour or two is a killer.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
it was 3 hours
because the guy took my number down wrong and then the driver couldn’t find my house and even though I was calling every half hour it took 2 hours to even figure out that was the problem.
Leading the league in OMGs || President of the Billz Appreciation Club
fair enough
then they just botched it. Probably got frazzled with the rush, but that would have never happened under my watch.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
yeah
can’t really get mad about that. It happens. :)
Leading the league in OMGs || President of the Billz Appreciation Club
Oh you can get mad
you just stop yelling once they give you more free stuff :)
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
I'd say anyone who orders a pizza
one hour before the super bowl deserves to wait until 1/2 time for that pizza. Same with other special events. You’d think a PHD seeking student would know this, even one in Tennesse.
Master's seeking student
and it wasn’t the superbowl wtf?
Leading the league in OMGs || President of the Billz Appreciation Club
The worst with the super bowel
was everyone would order ahead and want their pizza at a specific time. Would get hard juggling all those times with only so many drivers, along with the regular orders.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Partly
I also did it because I just like using this name better. I use it for almost everything online.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
sorry buddy
but there is not way I confused Michael K with Michael W. :)
Leading the league in OMGs || President of the Billz Appreciation Club
There was some initial confusion when I first started posting here.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Why do I always forget to hit the reply button?
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Haha
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Surprising WInners
When was the last time a converted catcher won any Fielding awards? I would not have thought Daric Barton could win any 1st baseman award. I’ve yet to see him play much but can that guy really have much range?
Chase sure didn’t look like a fielding winner this post season.
Do the Yankess spend 100 Million to replace Brett Gardner with Brett Gardner?
If they do
what would it take to pry Brett Gardner from them?
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Anyone but the yankees and it wouldn't make sense from a money standpoint
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Vikings waive Randy Moss
http://twitter.com/michaelombardi/status/29396962259
That didn’t take long.
ran his mouth to media post game about how much he loves patriots, misses them, vikings are idiots, etc etc
full rant here
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/18804/verbatim-randy-moss
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Heh, i think what happened is that the Vikings just realized that Brett Favre has lost it, and Tavaris isn’t going to be able to exploit Moss’ effect on the defense. Brett Favre + Randy Moss 80 yards downfield could be scary. Sub Jackson for Favre, not so much.
by TopDeckTrueBlue on Nov 1, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
that makes no sense
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
didn't they sign him to an extension?
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Stupid trade then
a 3rd for a one year rental?
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
This is a team whose whole game plan was to rely on a gimpy Farve without any sort of training camp to get him ready.
The Vikings are not anti-definition of ‘smart’.
Worked for them last year
they should have benched favre 2 games ago and brought in Jackson. Their D and Peterson can win games for them as long as they aren’t slinging picks everywhere.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
I hate rivers
but the idea of a moss rivers hookup is scary as shit. Their GMs ego is too big to do it though.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
There's no reason
to bring in Moss’ personality.
Rivers just threw for over 300 yards against the league’s top defense without his 3 top receivers and the second starting receiver was an undrafted rookie FA playing in his second career game.
The CEO of the Texas Rangers called New York Yankees fans “violent,” “apathetic” and “an embarrassment” for their behavior during the American League Championship Series in an interview on Monday with ESPN Radio in Dallas.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/2010/news/story?id=5752715
Whoa!!!! Yankee fan is a hooligan???
"Oh ville lumière, sens la chaleur de notre coeur, vois-tu notre ferveur quand nous marchons près de toi. Dans cette conquête, chasser l'ennemi, enfin pour que nos couleurs brillent encore..."
"Nous sommes les parisiens (clap clap clap clap) et nous chantons en choeur (clap clap clap clap). Nous sommes les parisiens (clap clap clap clap), fidèles à nos couleurs (clap clap clap clap). Lololo lololo, lololo lololo"
Kiss my Aul[ass], hahaha
Give up the Dodgers 2nd rounder for De La Rosa?
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
LHP Jorge De La Rosa going 2 free agency. Talks with #Rockies did not produce deal. Will be 1 of most attractive SPs on mkt, after CLee #MLB
Give up the Dodgers 2nd rounder for De La Rosa?
Since the Dodgers are almost certain to sign somebody, it may as well be De La Rosa.
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I like DLR
But it’s an intriguing question as to how much he will fetch on the open market. His MLB innings totals the last four years:
130
130
185
121.2
Next year will be his age 30 season. Is he in demand enough to fetch 3/$30 or more (maybe a longer deal)?
If so, I would rather re-sign Kuroda and keep the draft pick.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
This.
I’m not too keen on committing serious money and multiple years to a guy not even a full season removed from a weird injury.
If his demand wasn’t as high, and he could be had for a cheaper price tag (say ~7-8m per year) I’d be more willing to jump in those waters.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
We also don’t really know what kind of deal Kuroda is looking for. He has his own spotty injury history and next year he’ll be 36. If he wants one year, as is rumored, then that’s a good thing for the Dodgers. If not — and I imagine that SOMEONE out there would be willing to give Kuroda a multi-year deal, if he wants one and if he’s willing to go anywhere — then…
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Just spitballing here...
If the number is $10 million per, I would be rather give Kuroda 2 years than give DLR 3 years.
If it takes a 3-year deal to keep Kuroda, I have some serious thinking to do.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Third Base Josh Bell
Now with 33% more Kavula
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Because he is not eligible anymore
got 161 PAs in the bigs last year.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
And in those 161 PA
.214/.224/.302, 8 XBH, 2 BB, 53 SO
I am less pissed off about that trade now
Just a reminder about how plate discipline learned in AA
can fade away faster then Buddy Holly when faced with Major League Pitching
Looks like
Bell might have left his plate disciple in Chattanooga:
AA Chattanooga: 12.8 BB% / 17.9 K%
AA Bowie: 8.7 BB% / 22.0 K%
AAA: 6.7 BB% / 22.7 K%
MLB: 1.2 BB% / 32.9 K%
No one can really be pining for Blake DeWitt as a 3rd baseman can they?
Russell Mitchell could probably outhit Blake DeWitt and I mean that seriously.
I believe that you do not believe that
but it will be a few years before we can resolve this difference of opinion and does not lend itself to a betting format.
Haha
That reminds me…I made a bet in 1992 that Michael Jordan would not pass Wilt Chamberlain in NBA point scored, and my friend paid up when Jordan first retired.
Jordan ended up passing Wilt eventually, but the bet was already settled.
Nice bet
my longest bet was when Shaq joined the Lakers. I bet him that we’d win a championship before the Celtics. For a while I wondered if either of us was going to win. He hated Shaq and he was probably right if not for the 17 year old kid they had drafted.
Is it cool to hate Shaq yet?
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Dewitt vs. Mitchell
MiLB Only:
Dewitt:
Ages 18-23: 2555 PA, .277/.337/.443
Mitchell:
Ages 18-25: 3552 PA, 266/.321/.444
Also, on this note, Kevin Goldstein at BP is doing his reports by draft order. So the instead of waiting in late Feb for the Dodgers, he’ll likely get it done by Early Jan.
I voted De La Rossa. Next will be Jansen, because sadly every one after that strikes me as real hope and pray types. I realize you can say the same about the top 3 but everyone after that to me you gotta squint to see their ceilings.
As for Glove Gate, I’ll go optimistic and say that they think he’s athletic enough to handle it and not because they think he can’t hit enough to stick.
I missed the earlier discussion
but have answered the “Jansen-prospect” above, FWIW.
by Little Blue Bicycle on Nov 1, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
in the ranking it uses for the BCS, there is no margin of victory component.
Boise State is 13th in the Sagarin ratings used in BCS, but in his predictor of future games, Boise State is #5.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
…although I’m not sure how TCU (with the #72 ranked schedule) is #2 while BSU (#74 schedule) is lower. Do the two extra games (for TCU, so far) matter? I’m not sure.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Davey Lopes NOT returning to the Phillies
@DashTreyhorn Davey Lopes will not be returning to the Phillies, everyone. Bad news. http://ow.ly/32KpM
Lopes, 65, had been offered a one-year contract, but the two sides weren’t able to agree on a salary.
…
Lopes, … , oversaw outfield play and base-running for the Phils.
…
Lopes, who lives in San Diego, would like to remain in baseball and will look for work with a West Coast team.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Is Davey Lopes a guy that can coach Matt Kemp?
If so, sign him up.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
He did spend 8 different seasons there (2 tenures), albeit under different ownership.
Trying to think of a more gruff, grumpy, red ass coaching staff than the 1998 Padres, with Lopes at 1B and Dave Stewart at pitching coach. :)
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Larry Bowa and Dallas Green ever coach together?
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Heh
No, but from 1979-1981 Green was Bowa’s manager. No doubt the embers were lit then.
Green became GM of the Cubs in 1982. That’s when Sandberg was traded with Bowa for DeJesus.
Here’s a vote for Lopes, the Dodger I wanted to be when I was a kid.
by Little Blue Bicycle on Nov 1, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I have no knowledge of this whatsoever
but would like to think the Dodgers would be his first choice if the feeling was mutual.
Did Lopes and Lasorda
have some sort of falling out? Bob Timmermann would know; where is he when I need him?
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
All I know is
Lopes, in that article, also says he had more fun winning WS with Phils as coach than the one he won as a Dodger player. So screw him!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I was trying
to read past that quote!
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I can't remember
Did anyone link to Jon Weisman’s interview with Dee Gordon on Dodger Thoughts? There are two pictures there. The one with Pedro Baez looks like a father and son portrait and in the other he looks tiny under that helmet. And is it an optical illusion in the second photo or are his wrists pretty small? Hard to hit in the majors without big, strong wrists.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Yes
we commented on him being well spoken.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
“Hard to hit in the majors without big, strong wrists.” Huh. Is this why I always sucked at baseball? 40 years later, I finally figure it out. Oh, and my inability to catch a freakin’ fly ball didn’t help either, I guess.
by TopDeckTrueBlue on Nov 1, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Fuck fly balls
those where the goddamn devil
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Eh
if they are to win might as will let the fans enjoy the full impact of it. Once they win we need to move on.
Yeah I was in the "might as well get it over with and win today"
camp, partially vindictive, to keep them from doing it front of rabid crowd, but partially, yeah, I want to move on with my life since I’m already resigned to the fact that The Evil will happen.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I didn't watch MLB network at all last offseason
and it looks like another offseason on the internet.
Fuck the Rangers in 2010
?????????
every prospect place who actually knows prospects have DEE GORDON as our Number ONE prospect……
TBLA is not gonna have him in the top 4????
wtf???
I don’t think it’s us undervaluing him. I think it’s them undervaluing everyone else for random criteria like signing bonus or what round they were drafted in. Things that have exactly nothing to do with actually playing the game.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
I don't buy the signing bonus argument
In particular if you are talking about Jerry Sands or even Trayvon Robinson.
Zach Lee could very well end up as BA/BP’s number one LA Dodger prospect.
I disagree those are random criteria. Scouts are often wrong, but they’re often right, and those are the metrics we have that represent both individual and group wisdom. It’s useful up until the time it’s not (a guy either succeeds or fails); but given the ups and downs of most minor league careers, it has to be considered at least somewhat relevant I think.
After the draft happens, I assume the guy who went first is better than the guy who went 1500th. However, if after two years in the minors the 150th pick is outperforming the 1st pick, I’m going to assume the team missed on the 1st pick, got lucky on the 1500th pick, and that the 1500th pick is a better prospect.
I don’t give a shit where they get drafted. I care about how they play once the games start.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
Well thought out argument
I changed my mind, I’m going to vote for him now.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
We are not sheep
vote as you like, and since none of them have actually come out you seem to be making assumptions
im just wondering
how come all the prospect followers love dee gordon so much…..
Callis of BA on where he will rank dee gordon
30-50 range. @BHSCouncil: Where do you see @deegordon ranked in upcoming rankings? #Dodgers #MLB
about 3 hours ago via HootSuite
no other dodgers will be top 50 so, there you go…. hes gonna be number 1 by BA
I just checked the header of this site
Sure enough, it doesn’t say “Baseball America.”
It says “True Blue LA.”
Lol lol
you honestly got me,….. but not so fast…. i waas just responding to him saying publications of this years prospect ranking have not come out….. but yes they haave…
Not everyone
I can remember many a simple prospect commentator at John Sickels site saying to beware.
That guy's pretty good with his prospect stuff
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Last year you thought it was crazy that we didn’t vote Ethan Martin no more than a 5. Now what do you think?
did i?
im not sure… i have to see who the top 4 were to see if it was crazy… dee and withrow were 1,2 for sure.. so not sure
Padres coaching staff is pretty set
and they just hired Dave Roberts as their first base coach.
The Dodgers still don’t have anyone rumored to take over for Duncan at first base.
Dave Roberts, IIRC, needs the paycheck and a little love. Give that one a pass.
Now with 33% more Kavula
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/18/sports/la-sp-0819-dave-roberts-cancer-20100819
Now with 33% more Kavula
i was going to ask you. did you also see all of these people wearing SF hats at the rose bowl saturday?
Giants fans come out of the wood work. My butcher always seemed like a decent man, but yesterday I saw him come into work wearing a Giants hat before putting on the market cap. I switched supermarkets immediately.
OT Movember Prostrate Cancer
Anyone doing this? I shaved this morning, will grow my first moustache without beard in about 23 years. I was thinking of getting a TBLA pornstache team together but time got away. The only question is, should I color it or leave it speckled with grey?
you should die it black, grow a mohawk and then INSIST to everyone at work that you don’t die.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
Ha Ha
growing a mohawk when the only hair that grows on the my is on the sides would be a cool trick. My hair does the Dilbert boss trick.
Giants Lineup
Torres RF
Sanchez 2B
Posey C
Ross LF
Uribe 3B
Huff 1B
Burrell DH
Renteria SS
Rowand CF
Lincecum P
I liked it better
when you titled their lineup as “losers” or “dicks”.
This is the Biggie Smalls lineup
Goin goin, back back to Cali Cali.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
Wow, freaky.
I was listening to that song, then read this post … It’s a sign!
by TopDeckTrueBlue on Nov 1, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess that would be LL Cool J
for thirtysomethings like me
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
Rangers Lineup
Andrus SS
Young 3B
Hamilton CF
Guerrero DH
Cruz RF
Kinsler 2B
Murphy LF
Molina C
Moreland 1B
Lee P
Other then the fact
you bought into the fact Giants are evil since you became a Dodger fan, does any one besides the old BS argument that Giant fans suck, have any real reason to hate the Giants?
In the old days, the Giants and Dodgers were always fighting for the pennant, both lived in the same city, and thus it made sense they hated each other. I never quite grasped why Los Angeles Dodger fans have kept this up. We rarely seem to be fighting the Giants for the Division title, sometime we do but not very much when you consider the fact we make up a good % of the division.
Mostly this
I feel like it gets perpetuated by the media/salespeople and Giants fans more than anything.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
i think it has a lot to do with the emnity
between Northern and Southern California. Northern California HATES Southern California, and Southern California doesn’t really care.
Leading the league in OMGs || President of the Billz Appreciation Club
They hate us because we’re beautiful. It’s a jealousy thing.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
and
because we steal their water.
Leading the league in OMGs || President of the Billz Appreciation Club
If that was true that So Cal does not care
then they have a funny of showing they don’t care by hating on a team who lives in a region they pretend not to care about. This deal is hardly one way.
The hate only really shows when they are doing well. Good luck getting through any day of the year without some Dodger-bashing by a group of Giants fans (Hello, McCovey Chronicles.)
The hate here really seems to show when the Giants are doing well
you’d think everyone is still ten years old.
This is the first time I haven’t been able to hate a Giants team. I really admire what they’ve done in putting together a very good, homegrown, cost-controlled pitching staff.
I feel very dirty for having just written all that. I’m certain to be banned now.
Luckily posters cannot ban you
and I don’t think Michael or Dave really care. So if you do get banned, at least you know it was by the big Kahuna.
I actually like watching the GIants rotation. But fuck their offense, all of them.
Fuck the Rangers in 2010
Thats my biggest rub with the current team
did they develop a single key player on their offense not named Posey?
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
It's too bad that consistency hasn't translated into bigger numbers.
I like his defense, but aside from ‘07, he’s been a real bust at the plate.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
They executed their plan
of top 10 pick after top 10 pick flawlessly.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
I agree with this 10000%. It seems strange that people who think their city is the greatest ever engineered by mankind can hate another city with such ferocity.. Why not just be happy with what you have and stfu like us Angelenos do..
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on Nov 1, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
That;'s kind of my problem too
I love living in SF but if it’;s as great a city as my smug fellow residents here think it is, then why be so insecure about it that they have to constantly bash LA. I find myself still defending LA all the time (though I WILL say that after a lot of demographic shifts, incl more people up here from SoCal, there is a bit less than there used to be of LA bashing).
We’ve already had these discussions here, I’ve already said that as much shit as I get from Giants fans up here at games I know there are scary psycho Dodger fans in LA that are pricks to Giants fans too. But there’s definitely an absolutely obsession with the Dodgers and LA up here that borders on the sociopathic, or at least obsessive compulsive.
If it wasn’t for that tiresome bullshit, and the fact that fans are taught to hate the Dodgers from practically birth (I am not kidding, I have seen this in action trust me), then I would probably feel much more benign about the Giants.
That and Joe Morgan and Brian Johnson, fuck em both.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Well they lost the Rams
as someone to kick LA fans about. And they will say that the Warriors are Oakland’s team and ignore the Lakers.
Not sure I get the Rams analogy?
as for the Warriors, and speaking of bandwagons, I swear there are tons more Lakers fans up here now than there used to be, and not all of em from SoCal. :-)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Niners owned the Rams
until the Rams moved to St. Louis so you don’t have that rivalry anymore. But I did witness some of it last year at AT&T so I empathize with those who will have to put up with it.
Ah right
And yeah I do know Warriors fans who have same LA hate about Lakers that Giants fans do, but the Lakers are so consistently good they are pretty hard to dis with any straight face.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Barry Bonds
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Plus
their fans and their irrational hate of the Dodgers. Let them continue to suffer if they are such sore losers.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
River Ave Blues shops Phil Hughes around the league:
Los Angeles Dodgers
Clayton Kershaw is a definite yes. You could argue for Andre Ethier and bringing his left handed bat to Yankee Stadium but he’s older than you may think (29 in April) and getting expensive. If you believe in upside you might consider Matt Kemp, but Kershaw is the only sure thing for me. Would the Dodgers trade Kershaw for Hughes? No.
At least they were reasonable enough to note this would never happen.
Yankees fans
Think every low A prospect is a sure thing.
….he said, as he looked at #1 prospect Jay Sands.
(Yes, I know Sands spent significant time at AA.)
Now with 33% more Kavula
I still have my pre-written post from last year’s trade deadline ready to go.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha
I was cleaning up some old stuff on SBN LA, and I still have the Maholm article in waiting over there, too.
Its not like Sands is a Grade A prospect.
Even most #1 prospects fail 60% of the time, every time.
I'd rather have Grienke than Hughes.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
You should get an Eclipse
The difference from the Miata to that is just insanely awesome.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
My Favorite Comment
kosmo says:
October 30, 2010 at 10:56 am
Kershaw for Hughes I would make in a second .From the Dodgers perspective I don´t see the point.
I would make a Granderson-Hughes for Billingsley ,Kemp,Egbert and Kuo trade.
Reactions:
1. Yeah, I bet you would do that second trade.
2,. Egbert?
Now with 33% more Kavula
Egbert
Elbert’s smarter brother!
Leading the league in OMGs || President of the Billz Appreciation Club
EgBert is what came out of Elbert when he went
back home last summer and shed his skin. A new person, smarter, better, and with baby skin.
I find it hilarious
That they want the Dodgers’ second-best major league pitcher, best (maybe) major league relief pitcher, down-year-but-still-a-guy-you-can’t-give-up major league center fielder…
….and a busted prospect who got demoted and quit the game. What?
Now with 33% more Kavula
I think they must mean Ethier. I mean, I would do that trade — two-thirds of the Dodger outfield, their #2 starter, and maybe best reliever, for Granderson and Hughes.
I’d do that. If I were on crystal meth. Oh, and if the Yankees would agree to throw in more crystal meth.
Now with 33% more Kavula
If the Dodgers were based in Tennessee
they would do it.
According to Nolander. ;)
Leading the league in OMGs || President of the Billz Appreciation Club
When you are right
you are right.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
The vote so far
is, as you might be expecting, a Rubby runaway. He has 19 votes. Kenley and Dee are both way back with 8 each, and TBLA’s last #1 prospect is brings up the rear with two votes.
Now with 33% more Kavula
According to this baseball card I just got
Andre Ethier has the 7th highest OPS all time amongst Dodger Outfielders. At least I think it was OPS
Baseball cards do OPS now?
I have him fourth for Los Angeles Dodgers who have played more then 500 games which is all I care about.
Rk Player OPS From To Age PA 2B 3B HR RBI BB Pos
1 Gary Sheffield .998 1998 2001 29-32 2276 88 6 129 367 365 *7/9D
2 Reggie Smith .915 1976 1981 31-36 2055 89 11 97 301 271 *9/835
3 Shawn Green .876 2000 2004 27-31 3462 183 12 162 509 394 *93/D8
4 Andre Ethier .854 2006 2010 24-28 2812 165 18 98 384 270 *97/3
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/1/2010.
amazingly he only gave us 223
Drew only 218
and
Wynn 280
What is really really really sad about that list, is that Strawberry and Eric Davis could not make it.
Yeah
they are counting all players. Hard to include guys like Jimmy Wynn, Manny, JD Drew who all played less then 300 games. That is not even two full years.
take the list of top four all time greatest OPS among Dodger Outfielders with at least 500 games in blue, and provide color commentary for each of them?
I have no idea what that means
is that the same as saying they won game one while on the road? How many games is the series?
an aggregate series
means what counts is goals not wins. So it means they’re up 1-0 at halftime, with the second half to be a game played in LA this weekend.
Oh
interesting scoring. I always wanted baseball to be scored by the total bases for the game not for runs. Why should home plate count anymore then any other base. When I told Abner of this he told me to fuck off.
Did they play a full game?
That is really weird to me.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
it’s a rule adopted from Europe, where game 1 can be in Brussels and game 2 in London. It makes less sense in America, but there’s little else to break a tie. If the away goals are even, they go to a shootout.
Back to Davey Lopes
I’d really like to sign just to see how much of an impact we can have on the running game. I really do think we run the bases like a bunch of girlscouts and would love to see this part of our game improved. Especially when we add Gordon/Robinson/Sands to lineup.
Totally agree. I don’t have stats to back this, but it seems like we haven’t had a good baserunning team in a very long time.
There was Juan Pierre. But then again he couldn’t get on base worth a shit so it didn’t really matter.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
He was at 77% with the Dodgers, which isn’t too bad.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Me too.
I probably would have really liked Pierre had it not been for his horrific contract.
True that
two or three years of Pierre might have been okay, but knowing we were stuck with him for five damn years from the moment he signed is what triggered my indignation.
Imagine if he didn't suck at bunting
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
I know you’re kidding, but gawd, I hated that “filled in admirably when Manny was suspended” BS. Yeah, he did — for the first 25 of the 50 games. Then he fell off the Cliffs of Pierre….gah.
Now with 33% more Kavula
Still for one month he was in complete Beast Mode
don’t take that away from him just because everyone wanted to forget what he did after that.
I thought a 75% SB% was pretty good. Ignoring freak seasons like Beltran in 2001 (31SB/1CS) and Ichiro in 06(45/2) and 07 (30/2), 75% is supposed to be way up there.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
Greg Oden now one of the bigger number one busts of all time?
and yet the Trailblazers are not missing a beat.
Speaking of a favorite player to watch and the Blazers
The Bulls are playing the Blazers tonight, and that means Derrick Rose is playing, he’s the most exciting player to watch right now.
he was the only guy I didn’t want to watch UCLA basketball face. How Washington got that guy to go to their school is beyond me. he must be from there?
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
Why?
not like UCLA has been has been kicking out ALL – Star NBA players in the 21st century. The Pac 10 seems to be quite competitive these in B Ball isn’t it? Even Washington State can win games.
Washington, specifically Seattle has become a hotbed for elite basketball talent. Roy has a really interesting story (wanted to declare out of high school, poor grades, i believe he worked as a janitor while working on his grades, and then went to his home school). Romar is great at connecting with players (although his coaching leaves a lot to be desired), and there is a strong push for Seattle guys to stay home and play ball.
I’d still take a flyer on him after the season.
The dude can play when he’s healthy and this stigma of all-time draft bust should keep his price down.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
The thing that was wierd
is that when he did play, he simply didn’t display any of the skills you’d expect. He really did play like he looked (35 years old).
Is Albert Pujols one of the ten greatest MLB players of all time?
If MLB Network did a countdown of the Top 100 players of all time, where would he fall, I ask this because the NFL Network and NFL Films have been doing a countdown of the Top 100 Players of All-Time. They are down to the final ten and it is pretty well accepted on internet boards that the final ten will be the following (in order of when they first played in the NFL)
Don Hutson. WR
Johnny Unitas. QB
Jim Brown. FB
Dick Butkus. LB
Walter Payton. RB
Joe Montana. QB
Lawrence Taylor. LB
Jerry Rice. WR
Reggie White. DE
Peyton Manning. QB
Who would be on Baseball’s top ten list and who would be the highest ranked active player?
I agree with this
right now Peyton is God Gift, but that is because he has not gone though his crappy game passed me by stage which will happen.
Peyton is at that stage
that if Bret ever retires, he should catch him in the all-time passing lists. But then again, for the NFL, numbers are not always a factor.
key word being should. The law of averages still can’t predict the future, much as it wants to. What if Peyton goes down with a career ending injury tomorrow?
Then he would be statistically
the 3rd best QB to ever play the game.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
yeah but Steve Young was more fun to watch, and Troy Aikman won more silverware, and Peyton Manning is a total tool
Troy Aikman had way more talent
on the D to help him out. Calling Peyton Manning a total tool really isn’t fair at all.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
my point is you’re conflating greatest with valuable, and I think greatest is too grandiose a word to be limited to some numbers
No I am not
There is a difference between saying you are the most valuable player on a good team, and saying you are the most valuable player on the best team year after year, and are the reason they are the best team. By the time he is done he will be the greatest QB to every play the game, if he isn’t already. His arm, his accuracy, his ability to read a defense, see the blitz coming, and to choose what play to call is unmatched.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
It is interesting because
Of the three on the list above, Unitas retired with most if not all of the passing records I believe plus he played and won the most important game in NFL history and he also won a Super Bowl. Montana never had the career numbers as other quarrterbacks but he was the face of the NFL for a decade and he won Super Bowls with great 4th quarter drives. It helped that both Unitas and Montana had great talent and coaching around them for the bulk of their career.
Manning’s inclusion on the list is a testament of his numbers, the fact that he has been a star from Day one and he also is as much the face of the League as anyone as ever been.
Mannings stats, rank all time in paranthesis. He has earned it.
Touchdown Passes: 379 (3rd)
Passes Completed: 4,403 (3rd)
Passing Yards: 52,044 (3rd)
Passer Rating: 95.5 (3rd)
Passing Yards per Game: 262.8 (1st)
Completion Percentage: 64.9% (5th)
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
And if he keeps it up he will still have earned it when he's done.
not that numbers are the end all in football. Dan Fouts put up some impressive offensive numbers, no one is touting him as one of the all time greats, he simply played on a team who ran a very successful offensive program.
Take away the numbers
he is still in the top 5 easy of QBs probably top 3. He is the driving force behind a team that seems to go 14-2 every year.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Huh
I would have thought Walter Payton would have gotten some play here but then he retired in 1986.
Right now I would rank Musial above Pujols, but that could change 10 years down the road. Of course Musial also played his entire career for the Cards while Pujols is not likely to. I think that’ll be a factor too.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, screw it
1. Ruth
2. Bonds
3. Mantle
4. Mays
5. Cobb
6. Hornsby
7. Wagner
8. Williams
9. Musial
10. Rickey
11. Pedro
Barry’s only crime is doing roids when everyone else was.
2004 slugging leaders:
Pujols .647
Edmonds .643
Beltre: .629
Helton .620
Barry: .609
Wait, that was Barry’s on base.
Ha Ha - his On base
yeah the only reason I have Bonds below Ruth is because Ruth was a cool pitcher before he became Ruth the hitter. He is and always will be the coolest story in the history of baseball.
Not easily. I THINK I have Bonds over Williams, but it’s not a slam dunk, and I might be wrong.
We are talking about Ted Fucking Williams.
Now with 33% more Kavula
I was responding to Maddz…and it seemed like her comment was more to the fact he was on the list.
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 1, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
But this brings up the problem people talked about football above. This is such a different game now. Could these ’legends" do the same thing against the quality of pitching we have these days?
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 1, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I would venture to say yes, because the essential skill hasn’t changed and we’re talking very large sample sizes.
Issential size of the athlete has
changed greatly. None of the 19th century stars would do diddle in the 21st century but we are talking about what they did in their era not what they would do in today’s era. It is an unfair question. JMO
nom nom nom
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Hornsby
that’s a lot of value for a time when offensive stats were inflated and I have not read any account where he was a better than average defensive player.
Okay,
just seems that for you, the whole ballplayer would matter more than just a guy who averaged over .400 for like 5 years.
It does, it’s just that Hornsby arguably dominated baseball more than anyone ever has, and he did it as a second baseman.
Hornsby Vs. Ruth OPS
Year Hornsby Ruth
1917 .868 .857
1918 .764 .966
1919 .814 1.114
1920 .990 1.379
1921 1.097 1.359
1922 1.181 1.106
1923 1.086 1.309
1924 1.203 1.252
1925 1.245 .936
1926 .851 1.253
1927 1.035 1.258
1928 1.130 1.172
1929 1.139 1.128
1930 .817 1.225
1931 .996 1.195
Since that didn't come out clear
1917-1931:
Hornsby: 179 OPS+
Ruth: 214 OPS+
Ruth > Hornsby
Baseball America had
Hornsby as St Louis’ #7 ranked prospect
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
by underdog on Nov 1, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice list
I’m taking Wagner over Hornsby, Williams over Hornsby, and Rickey does not make my list. Nor does Pedro.
And it wasn't really his disease after all. He died of something other then
Lou Gehrig’s disease. That has to count against him.
Koufax
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I love Koufax
but you’d put him in top 10 all time among all players? I think that means first (maybe second) among all pitchers all time. I love him, but I don’t have him that high.
Now with 33% more Kavula
What if his career wasn’t cut short by injuries? I think he could have been considered among the very best ever had he been able to keep playing.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Bill James did it right
in terms of from 1962-1966, he was among the best to ever play but as far as his career, you have to assume a lot, particular in a time when they did not “TJ” or other medical procedures that would keep him healthy.
Pete Rose
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
I saw Joe Morgan
and was trying to think of another player who is as good in his own mind, as Morgan is in his own.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
You may not like Joe Morgan the broadcaster
But Joe Morgan the second baseman was among the best to ever play the game and is certainly among the top 25-30 players to ever play baseball.
Morgan is an egomanaical, self-righteous, annoying prick who can’t phrase a coherent thought to save his life, but he is also the best second baseman ever to play the game.
Now with 33% more Kavula
Two
Post-1947 players.
Hornsby would not be on that list, Dimaggio is there on style points (not that he wasn’t great but he was hurt and missed time for WWII). I would put Schmidt and maybe even Clemens on that list.
I wouldn't Foxx
was second to Gehrig at the time he played and Hank Greenberg put up similar numbers.
Really you don't have Barry Bonds on this list?
Can’t we just use Bill James Abstracts, he did all the heavy lifting for us.
What about Satchel, Josh, Charleston, etc? Thats why, for me, the greatest players ever debate just cant be done before integration. Its possible that 3 or 4 of the top 5 players never played in the major leagues (for Satch, played during his prime).
Yes
and I’m very surprised that BH started the conversation because I’ve seen him write many times you simply can’t compare players from other era’s.
Its just too hard to do that in all sports, as there is too much evolution and change. I just like to appreciate the players for how great there were during their period, and really nothing more. I especially refuse to do it in baseball because so many of the “greats” come from a time where a large segment of the population wasnt allowed to participate (and that segment can lay claim to having the best players ever, as well).
Speaking of strange trade proposals
Someone on Drays Bay suggested Shields for Loney and was destroyed afterwards. There is consensus that they will be moving a starter to make room for their young pitching.
I think Loney could fetch a better pitcher than Shields, who was pretty bad this season. Actually, I believe the Mariners wanted Loney this summer for Lee.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow
I’d say that statement is wrong on many levels. Shields has one of the best contracts in baseball and we stole him for James Loney I’d be very very happy.
No the Mariners did not want Loney for Cliff Lee.
I read somewhere that the Mariners asked for him, but Colletti balked.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Well of course Billingsley is out of the question
But not Loney. He’s more than expendable.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I would not be opposed to Shields
He would be a solid piece to the back end of the rotation, but that’s all he’s probably going to be. I think a package headed by Loney could fetch a #2 starter at the very least. That’s all I was saying.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Unless you are trading with Colleti
in which case he will give you player you want for those you don’t.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Not a chance. Maybe If we traded Loney prior to the ’09 season he would be the centerpiece to a #2. Not today when he is due to make nearly $5mm.
Plus Shields is a good pitcher and would probably be #3 on our staff (depending on who gets signed)
Shields is money plus prospects. We don’t have much money and don’t have much in terms of good prospects. At least the money can regenerate over a period of time.
Fuck the Rangers in 2010
I never called Loney a prospect
Shields would cost Loney plus our top prospects.
Fuck the Rangers in 2010
Shields has a great contract
for the next couple of years providing his luck returns and he isn’t this sucky bitch the Rays got in 2010.
How do you figure Loney can net a number 2?
If he could he’d have been long gone Loney. Could be that Shields is done, but it looks like he had an incredibly unlucky year. I’d sure gamble Loney on him bouncing back. Then sign Pena.
I would do this in a heartbeat.
Shields’ FIP last year was 4.29… “in the American League East!!” as all the “analysts” like to say.
Apparently the AL sucks if I judge the World Series correctly
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 1, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
He could have fetched a big time pitcher
if Colletti was willing to deal him. As it stands now, I think Loney still has enough potential that a lot of teams would offer good value in return. Will he make good on the potential? I don’t think so. But it’s still there and that makes him very tradeable.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
It would depend on who is available and which teams need a young first baseman. But I think Colletti needs to explore those options.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Alright well lets look at the teams that might need a 1B
Tampa Bay
Baltimore
Toronto
ChiSox
Seattle
Washington
Cubs
Giants
Not a lot of teams really, and there are a lot of grizzled vets available that Supply and demand says will be cheaper than Loney.
True
But that could always change. He put up huge numbers in 2007, and he could potentially do it again. I don’t think he will, but he could.
I’m just trying to look at it from the perpective of other teams. I’m sure some value him highly yet.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Loney’s trade value, in terms of starting pitching, is someone like Tom Gorzelanny, not Shields. turn him back into a pitcher.
Fuck the Rangers in 2010
What happens if Loney breaks out and has a 30 HR 100 RBI .300 BA season?
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
the law of averages says he’d have roids in his butt
by Josie Becker on Nov 1, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He could have been using the cream
yet you go straight to the butt.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
The Giants last WS win was in 1954. Today’s date is 11-01-10. In binary, 110110 is 54. The stars have aligned. There is nothing we can do to stop them. We are all fucked.
Also, FUCK THE GIANTS
Listen
if they win two games that Cliff “the Yankees are afraid of him” Lee, than I think they are deserving winners.
Booze power?
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
From Baseball Almanac
Four sluggers have put a ball over the center field wall in the Polo Grounds (Version IV). Those “sluggers” are Luke Easter of the Negro Leagues in 1948; Joe Adcock on April 29, 1953; Lou Brock on June 17, 1962; and Hank Aaron on June 18, 1962.
well he earned 1500 for being first, when he’s collected 3,000 he can chose between a plastic monster finger puppet, or a glow in the dark yo yo
woo hoo
or what’s behind door #3?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I may need that tonight
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
and search Google
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Woo hoo!
Seems like it’s been awhile!
I had Sklarbro Country, Doug Loves Movies and Comedy Death Ray to catch up on anyway.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
When we get our Time Machines ....
I know which 24-hour period is going to be high on my list: Lou Brock on June 17, 1962; and Hank Aaron on June 18, 1962.
But, only if I get multiple trips. Otherwise, I’ll have to spend my chits on other stuff.
by TopDeckTrueBlue on Nov 1, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Easy, it just didn’t clear the fence
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 1, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know about 05
but back in 04 I could score Chone Figgins from second on a bunt 100 percent of the time. It was sweet.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Well you lucked into
the best baseball game ever made.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
A lot of it might just be my tastes as a gamer
but I never got into the show as much as I did MVP, I just remember the batting in MVP feeling better. The Show is one hell of a game though.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
The batting in the show is great, but you just need to tweak the sliders and adjust the rosters.
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 1, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
At least he won a Cy Young award for us in 2013.
Fuck the Giants, fuck the Rangers, fuck this whole damn World Series.
by drulenarendes on Nov 1, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
What a dick
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
He is not even going to be close to the HOF :( I was thinking this would double suck for him this week as he is a Ranger fan.
sickels just puts the player in his hometown team
when they become free agents…
Serious question though
Would Cuba be a better place for the Rays than Tampa?
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
Well, yeah.
But they already admitted that Communism as they have it setup is flawed. Maybe we’ll back off our embargo soon. Who knows.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
I missed the boat
what sanctions? Is there something besides the Cuba embargo that I’m missing?
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
How long of a flight from Florida is Cuba?
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
Only if he apologizes for his Philly WS comment!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
In his defense
when we won in 1981 he was already being pushed off the team. 1981 was not a good year for Lopes and the Dodgers, they had Steve Sax and they wanted to use him. Now if he had won in 1978 when he had an incredible series and had made it his goal to win the series to honor Junior, then it would probably be his best memory. Context
That's true, I'd forgotten about some of that off field stuff
Sax was in, Lopes was out…
If we thought O Dog was ticked off last year…
Anyway that’s true. Still painful to see him happier about a Phillies series. I know he’s been with other teams since as player and coach but he’ll always be a Dodger to me.
Well if he comes back to the team I think that’d be cool, gotta surround the ex Yankee with ex Dodgers. ;)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I believe Lopes also made five fielding errors in the '81 series.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Joe Morgan said something last night that I found pretty funny.
They were talking about Bochy and Miller was saying that he thought Bocky was a smart guy.
Joe Morgan then said “Well he didn’t walk to school to carry his lunch.”
I thought that was good. As much as I rip on announcers, I thought I’d pay him back and let everyone know I thought
he made a funny.
Carry on
I love Jon Miller.
I used to listen to him, jeez, 23 years ago when he was the Orioles’ announcer. I don’t mind Joe Morgan, really, although he began to grate on my mom after about 10 seconds (literally).
by TopDeckTrueBlue on Nov 1, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
You lost me at
“I don’t mind Joe Morgan…”
But yes, Miller is cool
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I used to dislike Jon Miller, despite his great voice
until in the NLCS this year, Joe Morgan dropped a Joe Morganism, and Jon Miller said something to the effect of “Thanks for that drop in, Joe”.
Five zombies. Four bullets. Two zombies.
I like Miller too
Still, hard not to think there’s a trace of Giants homer-ism when both he and Morgan are commenting on these games. But much better with Miller than listening to Krukow and Kuip and the radio.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
hah hah
that’s something we don’t really get to witness anymore…
Since the Orioles are never on ESPN for the most part.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
ERA+ may be a flawed stat
but I just wonder how pitchers have bounced back from a 76 ERA+ to be relevant again.
who didn't have
a debilitating mental or physical issue(other then simply sucking)?
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -Robert Heinlein
http://www.accessorizeyourvehicle.com/
I'll be more specific in my criteria
I expect young pitchers like Oliver Perez to swing all the time. Shields had three good years in a row then dropped of the edge of the cliff, was it simply luck or was his stuff so bad he was easy to tatoo?
Everyone I can think of off hand never quite got that bad, closest I came was Livan Hernandez who had a 77 in 2001.
FIP says bad luck
and he gave up way too many HR. Other peripherals remained pretty good. I would welcome him with open arms.
That is not fair
you could use Halladay if you want to go that route. I’m talking after they have established themselves for at least a few years.
Eric is there a way to search baseball reference
to find pitchers between 25 – 32 who had a ERA+ < 80 while at the same time finding the same pitcher 25 – 32 who had an ERA+ > 100. I suspect we’d find most of the bounce back pitchers had surgery after the bad year.
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