SB Nation NL MVP Goes To Joey Votto
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 7:01 AM PST
in News
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PrintJoey Votto of the Cincinnati Reds won the 2010 SB Nation National League MVP. Votto led the Reds to the NL Central Division by hitting .324/.424/.600, with 37 home runs and 113 RBI. Votto received 27 of the 33 first place votes from SB Nation bloggers, outdistancing Albert Pujols of the Cardinals. Pujols won last year's SB Nation NL MVP unanimously.
All you have to know about the Dodgers season is that 27 different people got a vote as one of the 10 most valuable players in the National League, and there was not a Dodger among them. Here are the voting results:
| Rk | Player | Team | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | 6th | 7th | 8th | 9th | 10th | Pts |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Joey Votto |
Reds |
27 | 4 | 2 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 322 |
| 2 | Albert Pujols | Cardinals | 5 | 26 | 2 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 300 |
| 3 | Troy Tulowitzki | Rockies |
- | - | 3 | 8 | 8 | 7 | 3 | 3 | - | - | 184 |
| 4 | Carlos Gonzalez |
Rockies | 1 | 1 | 10 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 178 |
| 5 | Ryan Zimmerman |
Nationals |
- | 1 | 3 | 6 | 7 | 4 | 5 | - | - | 2 | 159 |
| 6 | Adrian Gonzalez | Padres |
- | - | 6 | 8 | 4 | - | 1 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 145 |
| 7 | Matt Holliday |
Cardinals |
- | - | 1 | 2 | 4 | 8 | 3 | 6 | 1 | 3 | 121 |
| 8 | Roy Halladay |
Phillies | - | 1 | 6 | 3 | 4 | - | 1 | - | 2 | - | 110 |
| 9 | Aubrey Huff |
Giants |
- | - | - | 2 | - | 5 | 7 | 2 | - | 2 | 75 |
| 10 | Jayson Werth |
Phillies | - | - | - | - | - | 2 | 4 | 5 | 1 | 3 | 46 |
| 11 | Ubaldo Jimenez |
Rockies |
- | - | - | 2 | - | - | 1 | 1 | 1 | - | 23 |
| 12 | Andres Torres |
Giants |
- | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | 6 | 2 | 20 |
| 13 | Josh Johnson |
Marlins | - | - | - | - | 2 | 1 | 1 | - | 3 | - | 15 |
| t14 | Adam Wainwright |
Cardinals |
- | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 1 | 2 | 2 | 14 |
| t14 | Dan Uggla |
Marlins | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | - | 1 | 3 | 14 |
| t14 | Ryan Howard |
Phillies | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 1 | 2 | 2 | 14 |
| 17 | Brian McCann |
Braves | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 2 | 2 | 3 | 13 |
| t18 | Kelly Johnson |
Diamondbacks |
- | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 2 | - | 2 | 12 |
| t18 | Rickie Weeks |
Brewers | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 2 | 4 | 12 |
| 20 | Ryan Braun |
Brewers |
- | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 2 | 1 | 8 |
| 21 | Adam Dunn |
Nationals |
- | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | - | - | 7 |
| 22 | Jay Bruce |
Reds | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 3 | - | 6 |
| 23 | Buster Posey |
Giants | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | 4 |
| t24 | Chase Utley |
Phillies | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 2 |
| t24 | Scott Rolen |
Reds |
- | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 2 |
| t24 | Tim Lincecum |
Giants |
- | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 2 |
| 27 | Angel Pagan |
Mets |
- | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 |
Points are awarded on a 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 basis, just like the BBWAA award, which will be announced at 11 a.m. today. Phil Gurnee and I each submitted a ballot for the SB Nation award. Here are our ballots:
- Eric: Pujols, Votto, Halladay, Ubaldo, Zimmerman, Holliday, Tulo, Wainwright, Johnson, Huff
- Phil: Votto, Pujols, A.Gonzalez, Tulo, C.Gonzalez, Werth, Zimmerman, Huff, Rolen, Holliday
Have at it, folks...
201 comments
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Hey Eric
why did you vote for Pujols over Votto?
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
You’re not coming on Friday, are you?
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
:( :( :(
What if I got Reg to sing something?
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
Like you’d have to force me to do that.
by regfairfield on Nov 22, 2010 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
I would be there, but a date with the wife trumps it.
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 22, 2010 8:38 AM PST up reply actions
There is no better date than karaoke night! :)
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 8:39 AM PST up reply actions
for what it's worth
I would say Votto for MVP as well.
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
I'm guessing park factors?
I was going to ask the same question.
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 7:44 AM PST up reply actions
My initial thought was to vote Votto, but...
Votto: .324/.424/.600, 174 OPS+, .439 wOBA, 177 wRC+
Pujols: .312/.414/.596, 173 OPS+, .420 wOBA, 169 wRC+
If it was just offense, the two are pretty close, and I’d give Votto the edge, and sure I would give him extra credit as a tiebreaker for making the playoffs. But, when I first started sorting the players, I averaged WAR from both Fangraphs and Baseball-Reference.
WAR (Fangraphs)
Votto 7.4
Pujols 7.3
WAR (Baseball-Reference)
Pujols 7.2
Votto 6.2
Pujols comes out ahead here, thanks to defense, but to be honest I’m not sure how there is such a big difference between the defensive contributions on the two sites (I probably should have done some more digging). FWIW, plus/minus gives Pujols the edge, +4 to -1.
A couple of other pro-Pujols points:
BABIP
Pujols .297
Votto .361
RISP
Pujols .343/.512/.657
Votto: .369/.491/.638
very slight advantage, if any, to Albert here
It really was almost a coin flip for me, but the allure of Albert was too awesome to ignore IMO.
Don't really know
why BABIP is “pro-Pujols”. That just means Votto’s less likely to have the same season next year. Whether or not Votto was “lucky” doesn’t really change his performance.
Mr. Science Boy
Sure it does
It makes him less responsible for the performance.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
We are quite apart on this logic
I think you are taking it to far with that conclusion.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Taking it to an extreme
If two guys weakly pop up to short right field, they both had a shit AB. Just because one guy’s hit happened to drop in doesn’t make his AB any better than the other guy.
But that is an extreme example.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 8:57 AM PST up reply actions
Remember
the stat that Votto had yet to pop up into the infield all season (last I saw it was as of mid September). Not sure if he ultimately finished the season without popping up, but nonetheless that was very impressive.
Yeah, I was talking more in the abstract. But that was an amazing stat.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 9:00 AM PST up reply actions
do their LD% fit the discrepency in BABIP?
Also, BABIP needs a better acronym, something like WHIP where it is easier to explain to someone who isn’t familiar with the concept.
My life has a great cast, I just can't figure out the plot.
someone should combine BABIP and LD%, strength of schedule, coach’s polls, and teammate’s ability and create a luck co-efficient.
Wind factors, chill factors, Skirts
all these must also be considered.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
was thinking more like
Contact to Hit Percentage = CHP = Votto had a higher chip than Pujols.
My life has a great cast, I just can't figure out the plot.
What about “drop factor” or just “drops” as in, he had more balls in play drop for hits, or something like that.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 9:10 AM PST up reply actions
Looks mean to me, what with the X and everything
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Votto had a higher LD% (20.0%) than Pujols (17.2%). I can never remember how to calculate an expected BABIP, but IIRC it’s BABIP + .12, so they would be something like .320 (Votto) and .292 (Pujols).
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 8:59 AM PST up reply actions
You have to remember with BABIP its not just luck.
Players tend to establish their own level of BABIP production over the years. Votto’s BABIP was actually higher last year. The type of contact he makes must support a higher BABIP. Also, he strikes out nearly 23% of the time so he puts the ball in play less and more of his outs are K’s.
Pujols on the other hand only strikes out only 10% – 13% of the time (13% last year), so since he puts the ball into play so often a lot more of his outs are balls in play and thus his BABIP is always on the low side.
In other words, you can’t just look at BABIP and LD% and declare one guy luckier than another.
Players tend to establish their own level of BABIP production over the years
Ask Matt Kemp
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 9:14 AM PST up reply actions
There is no such thing as a sustainable .361 BABIP
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
I'm flying home today
if any TSA agent gets frisky I am going to be PISSED.
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
btw Maddz
it took me a few days but I finally realize where your sig is from. I love that ep.
“So….been crying?”
“Pssh no way man, I’m totally high.”
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 22, 2010 7:45 AM PST up reply actions
Candy.
It tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
“They call this a fooood library.”
“Foood Library?”
“IT’S A GROCERY STORE YA DOUCHEBAGS!!! Sorry about the douchebags…..I have low blood sugar”
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 22, 2010 7:57 AM PST up reply actions
I like to laugh. Hello. You are a GMILF. That is a grandmother I’d like to …
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
special sale
on Every Bone Broken chicken.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 22, 2010 8:07 AM PST up reply actions
The best part about the episode that my sig references is the “zazz” bit. The hair stylist I lusted over told me he was going to give my hair some…zazz. I was like “!!!! PUT IT ON THE ZAZZ TRAIN TO ZAZZVILLE”
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
LOL
nice
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 22, 2010 8:15 AM PST up reply actions
Don't complain
….action is better than none at all :)
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 22, 2010 8:40 AM PST up reply actions
That I disagree with
but that’s alright. :)
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
Did things get recently much worse at the airports? I’ve been travelling for a while and it seems like they’ve been doing this shit for close to a decade now, why all the media attention recently?
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 9:22 AM PST up reply actions
full body scans
and aggressive frisking…which is used to grope people…:(
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
And the full body scans
are pretty explicit. If you opt out, they touch your balls. Not an exaggeration.
LAST SEASON, I led this team in ninth-inning doubles in the month of August!
so the script looks like this?
1: Do you submit to a full body scan?
2: No.
1: Sir, I’m going to have to ask you to place your balls in my hand
2: But they’re my balls.
by Josie Becker on Nov 22, 2010 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
There explicit, but they are not stored and are in a room where they cannot see you in person.
I really think this is just the cost of traveling nowadays
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 22, 2010 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
And really, what terrorist would put themselves through that ordeal.
by regfairfield on Nov 22, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
or the always ironic hipster terrorist
by Josie Becker on Nov 22, 2010 10:13 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Supposedly not stored
but the machines do have the ability to store those images. I’m not going to get into it any more here since beyond that it gets super political, but I will say that this kind of shit makes me think the terrorists have already won.
LAST SEASON, I led this team in ninth-inning doubles in the month of August!
Agreed
on the last part. I mean I am really surprised a group has not started suicide bombings in the US. Hit a Sbucks, elementary school and some other place on the same day, and you would make Americans stay in their homes for a week.
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 22, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
they don't have to
people are still running scared from something that happened 9 years ago.
LAST SEASON, I led this team in ninth-inning doubles in the month of August!
Between the two of you, 3 Rockies players and yet they watched the playoffs from home too. I’d definitely rather have had those kinds of seasons from our guys but the outcome was about the same.
by LA Taco on Nov 22, 2010 7:45 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I expect Purple Rowbots would be mad I didn’t have CarGo in my top 10.
There was quite a bunch up of players near the bottom of the top 10. I probably should have had Adrian Gonzalez over Huff, but I can’t remember the numbers (and I forgot to save the file).
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 7:47 AM PST up reply actions
I’m very disappointed in your Ubaldo vote.
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 7:48 AM PST up reply actions
I expect Phil to be displeased that I have 4 pitchers in my top 9.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 7:50 AM PST up reply actions
yeah, wtf
Kershawk > Ubaldo
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
At a minimum, isn’t Josh Johnson a no brainer over Ubaldo?
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 7:54 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe if Johnson pitched after September 4
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 7:56 AM PST up reply actions
And still had the exact same WAR Ubaldo did.
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 7:59 AM PST up reply actions
Johnson: 182 ERA+ (led NL), 183.2 IP
Ubaldo: 161 ERA+ (4th in NL), 221.2 IP
WAR
Ubaldo: 7.1 (b-r), 6.3 (FG)
Johnson: 6.4 (b-r), 6.3 (FG)
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 8:00 AM PST up reply actions
No matter. I’m still disappointed in you :)
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 8:09 AM PST up reply actions
Never occurred to me
that a man who pitches every fifth day could be as important as an everyday player.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
I spend a lot of time here, because I know exactly how Eric is going to respond to this….
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 8:14 AM PST up reply actions
He is when, on the day he is pitching he is by far the most important player on the field, even five times or more as much as his eight teammates :)
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 8:15 AM PST up reply actions
Using two players, for example
The highest respective position player and pitcher on the ballot:
Joe Votto: 648 PA in 2010
Roy Halladay: 993 batters faced in 2010
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 8:16 AM PST up reply actions
makes sense
a CG by a pitcher would get him anywhere from 27-40 vs. any hitters maximum 6 at bats.
My life has a great cast, I just can't figure out the plot.
I can see the logic for Halladay
in this vote, but can’t really for Jiminez unless you simply went by WAR to decide your vote. If so then we don’t need to take a manual vote just used the computer Hal.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Never even occurred to me vote for pitchers for the MVP
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Please submit your vote for the Hank Aaron Award.
My life has a great cast, I just can't figure out the plot.
No need to have a vote for the Hank Aaron award
that is easily calculated, just pick the metric you want to use. It goes to the best offensive player in the league does it not?
Rk Player OPS+ Lg R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS Pos
1 Miguel Cabrera 179 AL 111 180 45 1 38 126 89 32 95 3 3 .328 .420 .622 1.042 *3/D
2 Josh Hamilton 175 AL 95 186 40 3 32 100 43 5 95 8 1 .359 .411 .633 1.044 *78D
3 Jose Bautista 166 AL 109 148 35 3 54 124 100 2 116 9 2 .260 .378 .617 .995 *95/3D8
4 Paul Konerko 158 AL 89 171 30 1 39 111 72 7 110 0 1 .312 .393 .584 .977 *3D
5 Shin-Soo Choo 148 AL 81 165 31 2 22 90 83 11 118 22 7 .300 .401 .484 .885 *9/D
6 Robinson Cano 142 AL 103 200 41 3 29 109 57 14 77 3 2 .319 .381 .534 .914 *4/D
7 Evan Longoria 142 AL 96 169 46 5 22 104 72 12 124 15 5 .294 .372 .507 .879 *5
8 Luke Scott 142 AL 70 127 29 1 27 72 59 4 98 2 0 .284 .368 .535 .902 *D37
9 Adrian Beltre 141 AL 84 189 49 2 28 102 40 10 82 2 1 .321 .365 .553 .919 *5
10 Joe Mauer 137 AL 88 167 43 1 9 75 65 14 53 1 4 .327 .402 .469 .871 *2D
11 David Ortiz 137 AL 86 140 36 1 32 102 82 14 145 0 1 .270 .370 .529 .899 *D/3
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/22/2010.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
and NL
Rk Player OPS+ R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS Pos
1 Joey Votto 174 106 177 36 2 37 113 91 125 16 5 .324 .424 .600 1.024 *3
2 Albert Pujols 173 115 183 39 1 42 118 103 76 14 4 .312 .414 .596 1.011 *3
3 Adrian Gonzalez 152 87 176 33 0 31 101 93 114 0 0 .298 .393 .511 .904 *3/D
4 Matt Holliday 149 95 186 45 1 28 103 69 93 9 5 .312 .390 .532 .922 *7/D
5 Jayson Werth 145 106 164 46 2 27 85 82 147 13 3 .296 .388 .532 .921 *98
6 Carlos Gonzalez 143 111 197 34 9 34 117 40 135 26 8 .336 .376 .598 .974 789
7 Ryan Zimmerman 142 85 161 32 0 25 85 69 98 4 1 .307 .388 .510 .899 *5/D
8 Troy Tulowitzki 138 89 148 32 3 27 95 48 78 11 2 .315 .381 .568 .949 *6
9 Aubrey Huff 138 100 165 35 5 26 86 83 91 7 0 .290 .385 .506 .891 *379
10 Adam Dunn 138 85 145 36 2 38 103 77 199 0 1 .260 .356 .536 .892 *3/D
11 Prince Fielder 137 94 151 25 0 32 83 114 138 1 0 .261 .401 .471 .871 *3/D
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/22/2010.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
I knew Luke Scott had a good year
but of the 22 names on the two lists, his name is the one I was most surprised to see.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
At what point
Does a team’s success or if I can use that dreaded word, win, count for anything? I get the argument when you look at wins and pitchers and I suppose the same should go for position players but since the numbers are so close, I think you can factor how the team finished to the equation.
by bhsportsguy on Nov 22, 2010 8:15 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I’m at the point where I almost have no opinion on that question.
I basically say that any voter can make up their mind on that one.
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 8:17 AM PST up reply actions
Counts for me
Eric and spend all day doing WAR but if the Cardinals are going home and the Reds are playing in the playoffs and Votto was one of the best players in the league, then it is a no brainer vote for me for Votto. If the Reds did not have a Votto then Pujols would have gotten my vote after our discussion several weeks ago. I have changed my moving position based on arguments here.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Like I said, it was a very close vote for me. I didn’t ignore the fact that the Reds made the playoffs.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 8:22 AM PST up reply actions
Loved the vote Angel Pagan got. Where is Omar Infante?
My life has a great cast, I just can't figure out the plot.
Someone voted for Pierre last year. I think it was Purple Row.
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 8:19 AM PST up reply actions
Nevermind, It was AZ Snakepit that voted for JP.
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 8:26 AM PST up reply actions
Yup
BTW it was snakecharmer at AZ Snake Pit who voted for Pierre http://www.azsnakepit.com/2009/11/12/1142538/sb-nation-awards-mvp
How was I the ONLY person that voted for Pierre…and why would TBLA not like that? :/ Yes, it was me. The guy did really well while Manny was out, he kept LA in the hunt! If he had faltered like he did last year, there’s no WAY the NL West ends up being a runaway (even though it wasn’t really, at the end). I didn’t look at OPS+ specifically, that I remember, but his other numbers were decent, despite his being relegated back to part-time after Manny’s return.
and
Highest AVG on the Dodgers, he came back from a terrible season and took over for Ramirez with a fierceness, played well all season long. Probably the Dodger’s MVP
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
and why would TBLA not like that?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahaha
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
One of the larger, more deeply-seeded problems with national voting is instances like this. For anyone who didn’t actually watch the Dodgers all year last year, they’d have no idea just how miserable it was watching JP play outside of about 6 weeks.
My life has a great cast, I just can't figure out the plot.
Pagan actually out WARed guys like Torres, Howard and McCann. He’s a really underrated player.
by regfairfield on Nov 22, 2010 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Because of his defense
which you tell us all the time should only be used for a three year time period but yet everyone keeps using the single season defensive metric when calculating the WAR and pointing to that as a number we should care about.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
I said sometime last week that I think of having a spike in defense one year is like using a .400 BABIP to hit .330. It’s not gonna happen again, but it still really helps your team.
And yeah +21 is a huge fluke, but he was +11 the year before that. Dude is a good player and I would trade Dan Uggla for him in a heartbeat.
by regfairfield on Nov 22, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
Per Fangraphs, McCann had the higher WAR.
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
I was going by B-Ref but I’m guessing it’s decimals either way. Point is that Pagan isn’t the worst guy that got votes.
by regfairfield on Nov 22, 2010 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
Little suprised that I was the only one to vote for Rolen
quite the underappreciated player he was this year. Deserved some 7 – 10 votes.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Everytime I hear "Ice Cream Paintjob"
I get angry that the Dodgers have not made that video available.
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
I wish I knew what you were talking about here.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 8:33 AM PST up reply actions
Do you remember when I found the "Bausmus" video a while back
made by the Astros? The Dodgers had this really cool stop-time video that they used in between innings; it was John Soo Hoo’s pictures of the team set to Ice Cream Paintjob and it was AWESOME. It was so awesome that it was recognized as such as the best music video in Sports.
Of course, they don’t have it on the internet ANYWHERE.
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
here
it is being recognzied in a press release
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
She's
Just getting ready to be taken aside by TSA when she enters the security area.
by bhsportsguy on Nov 22, 2010 8:37 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Pardon me ma’am…I need you to step over here into this machine.
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 22, 2010 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
Horrible news about a child who died at Staples Center after the Lakers game last night.
I can’t even imagine going through that.
Yeesh. My thoughts go out to the family.
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
I'm going to say something that is really really unpopular
but…FFS keep your kid away from the railing if they’re that young!! Taking pictures? UGH. It’s just terrible.
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
it's not bad
that was my second thought after reading that. I have two nephews close to that age. I wouldn’t be able to watch the game if they were close to some rail. I would be pulling them back and telling them constantly to stay away, and tell them why. I don’t want to condemn the parents here, but someone obviously wasn’t doing their job.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 22, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
I wrote that too and then deleted it because who knows what the circumstances were
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 22, 2010 8:57 AM PST up reply actions
I know, I know…it’s rough.
"Are you telling me they are out of dragons?"
"They never had dragons!"
"Who didn't?"
"The world!"
I mean, I don’t want to be anal and helicopter my kid all the time, but this is one of those circumstances where I would never let him play near a railing like that at that age, even if I am sitting right there. He just doesn’t have the cognitive ability to know about the possible consequences, so it is my job to protect him in this case until he does.
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 22, 2010 9:00 AM PST up reply actions
The saddest part is there will be a shit load of hateful comments to the family on the comments section of the LAT
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 22, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
i just read that
how horrible.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 22, 2010 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
I’ve always thought those boxes were a bit dangerous. Sometimes people climb next to the second row of seats to get to the first row, and there is a very small amount of overhang in front of the first row. I have a 3 year old boy and if I wasn’t paying attention at all times, who knows what he might get up to. So sad.
First time I saw
how low the plexiglass was I was a bit shocked. This family will now sue Staples.
The 3rd level is even stranger given how low the plexiglass is, if they were Dodger fans they’d be falling to their drunk deaths all the time.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
This
Makes me sick to my stomach, since Myles is this age too. I know this stuff can happen so quickly…ah
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 22, 2010 8:46 AM PST reply actions
I thought he died or something
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Just a year or so too late
(right Nate?)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I guess NFL owners just wait
until their teams are completely buried and out of the playoff chase to fire coaches now?
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
the season really moves too quickly now to blow up a team midseason and have it have any affect
by Josie Becker on Nov 22, 2010 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
Sure
Though this is the right move for the Vikes because they have Leslie Frazer in the wings, ala whatshisface in Dallas.
LAST SEASON, I led this team in ninth-inning doubles in the month of August!
so does Farvara retire now? Hang em up?
by Josie Becker on Nov 22, 2010 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
I could see those headlines: Brett Favre, 102 died last night when he fell asleep with a cigarette in his mouth while ice fishing. His neighbors have said that the cabin fire against the winter night sky produced some magnificent colors.
by Josie Becker on Nov 22, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
Is it possible for a starting pitcher to win MVP and not the Cy? Well, I guess anything’s possible but is there any logic to it?
has it ever happened?
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
It is possible for a player to have the 10th best OPS+ and win an MVP but not a Cy Young?
Barry Bonds is curious
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
I find it unlikely that Barry Bonds was ever the best pitcher in the NL.
My life has a great cast, I just can't figure out the plot.
This is where the argument of the greatest player of all time
sometimes has to stop with Babe Ruth because not only is one of the 3 or 4 greatest offensive players ever, if such awards as the Cy Young (or some other name) Award for best pitcher in the league existed when he pitched, he would have won the award in 1916.
by bhsportsguy on Nov 22, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
Exactly
the coolest Babe Ruth stat that I remember as a kid was his record scoreless streak in the World Series.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
by meercatjohn on Nov 22, 2010 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Confused about arbitration
Is MLBTraderumors right here?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/21-teams-facing-tomorrows-arbitration-deadline.html
Dodgers: Rod Barajas (B), Scott Podsednik (B). Ned Colletti has not offered arbitration to his free agents in recent years, but the team seems happy with both players and they’re operating off small salaries.
Why did I think they’d already declined to offer Pods arbitration? And is the team happy with both players? And is Pods salary really small? I feel like they’re talking about an entirely different player here but maybe i’m just confused.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
No, he did we picked it up
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
right
oh i misphrased that, I knew that they had decline his option, just didn’t understand the arbitration eligibility part of it. thanks.
Doesn’t their characterization about his cost vs value seem odd though?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Neither one will make much through arbitration.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
Guess so... to change the subject to Barajas:
I’d be happy if they brought him back though.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
They declined the option for Pods, but can still offer him arb.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 9:15 AM PST up reply actions
Sorry
Meant to see Pods declined the option, not the team.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
Okay now I'm confused
I thought we picked up his option but since it was mutual he declined it?
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
If we offer arb and he accepts
Does he get a higher or lower salary?
Poor production, got hurt, already above the salary of similar players (4th/5th OF types).
If we offer arb and he declines, does he get a job before June 15?
My life has a great cast, I just can't figure out the plot.
He will get a higher salary than $2m in arbitration IMO
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 9:18 AM PST up reply actions
Not much higher, mind you. Like ~$3m or so
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
then a definite no. that guy isn’t getting $3mil as a free agent. I hope he isn’t getting it from us.
My life has a great cast, I just can't figure out the plot.
Ned might not mind one year
while Pods is trying to get two years. I could see us offering arb with Pod declining.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
That was just a WAG off the top of my head, mind you. If Pods were to accept, they would just end up working out a deal
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
so then he’s a no, and Rod is a yes, I would imagine.
My life has a great cast, I just can't figure out the plot.
That seems to be right
Although I wouldn’t be surprised if they offer arb to both.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 9:20 AM PST up reply actions
Rods over Pods
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
They might offer, if they value what Pods has to offer. If he gets $3MM, its still for only 1 year. That might be attractive for LAD.
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 9:20 AM PST up reply actions
Right
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
also (what I was trying to decipher)
if dodgers offer arb and he declines, then they get Type B pick compensation?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Cool can't wait to get excited about the next
Preston Mattingly
James Adkins
Aaron Miller
Luke Hochever
Justin Orenduff
Greg Miller
Because if anyone has had luck with those Supplemental picks it is Logan White. Look at all that talent.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Whatever the bottom line is not that one of
our supplemental picks has even sniffed the major leagues as a Dodger.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Your right
he’s yet to pitch a good inning above A Ball.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
That’s not fair. I’m sure he pitched at least one good inning in AA :)
by Michael White on Nov 22, 2010 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
Your right
it is totally not fair to list every supplemental pick Logan White has made and make a blanket statement that they have all failed. So far only three have retired without seeing the major leagues. The other guy became the top pick in the draft for someone else, the other guy has a chance to be a loogy, and the other was shit canned in AA, but still has a bright future.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
I would bet that based on the number of Supplemental picks made since Logan White took over our draft, that his MLB success rate is pretty close to what everyone else is at. Simply because picks don’t work out.
My life has a great cast, I just can't figure out the plot.
In our division:
Giants – 2 out of 5 supplemental picks
Rockies – 0 out of 3
D’Backs – 0 out of 8
Padres – 2 out of 8
by regfairfield on Nov 22, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
Sure
but my point was that is seems silly to get excited about supplemental picks since we have to yet to even have one who has seen the major leagues.
The 2nd point was however a direct shot at the the Logan White bow. For all the fanfare Logan gets, it does not match up to reality. He had one great draft. Period.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
by meercatjohn on Nov 22, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
Nobody is getting excited
But having more draft picks is better than having less draft picks
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
Oh come on Eric
you know some here will be very excited at the prospect of a supplemental pick. I don’t have to name names.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
by meercatjohn on Nov 22, 2010 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
But you are acting like having an extra pick is a bad thing.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
we only get the pick if he signs with someone else before the midseason deadline. If he signs after that deadline he is compensation free. I believe the deadline is the June draft.
My life has a great cast, I just can't figure out the plot.
Right
But do you really expect that deadline to come in play?
by Eric Stephen on Nov 22, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
I would love for Podboy to experience such a miscalculation
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
So the Rockies have the 3rd, 4th and 11th best players in the league, still finish way in 3rd.
LOL Jim Tracy?
You can argue that, but then I as manager ask myself, “Did we have the best team?” “Maybe, but the results are what they are and we came up a little bit short at the end.” “Does the best team have the best record?” “Do we know that?”
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
that’s why we don’t play the games on paper
by Josie Becker on Nov 22, 2010 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
I picked up the JT questioning…funny
by robotmadeofnails on Nov 22, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
Dodgers officially announce coaching staff
Dave Hansen – Hitting Instructor (first season)
Trey Hillman – Bench Coach (first season)
Rick Honeycutt – Pitching Coach (sixth season)
Ken Howell – Bullpen Coach (fourth season)
Davey Lopes – First Base Coach (first season)
Manny Mota – Coach (32nd season)
Jeff Pentland – Hitting Coach (fourth season)
Tim Wallach – Third Base Coach (first season)
Rob Flippo – Bullpen Catcher (10th season)
Mike Borzello – Bullpen Catcher (fourth season)
New post coming soon
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