Winter Meetings Day 2: Dodgers And Vicente Padilla On Collision Course
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2010 7:14 AM PST
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PrintAs day two of the MLB Winter Meetings are upon us, it appears the Dodgers and Vicente Padilla are on a collision course. The theory is that Padilla would be a swing man, spot starter out of the bullpen. The rumor started last Thursday from a tweet from someone called OURDODGERS. Later that night the signing was reported by Jason Churchill of ESPN, although that was premature. Since then, Padilla has been linked to the Dodgers by Jeff Fletcher of AOL Fanhouse, Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated, Jayson Stark of ESPN, Ken Gurnick of MLB.com, Tony Jackson of ESPN LA, Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times, and finally this morning by Molly Knight of ESPN.
Gurnick also reported this morning that Padilla is close to a one-year, $2 million deal with the Dodgers, plus incentives. Padilla is scheduled to take a physical on Thursday to finalize the deal. I love that deal.
Sure the Dodgers are starter-rich, and Padilla has made one appearance out of the bullpen in the last nine seasons, but in theory it just may work. Padilla does have good stuff, and has battled injuries the last few years so perhaps using him in short bursts may be the most effective way to use him.
Since joining the Dodgers in August 2009, Padilla has been a very effective pitcher, when he pitches. He is 10-5 with a 3.82 ERA in 24 games (23 starts), and has had career-best strikeout (8.2 per nine innings) and walk rates (2.4 per nine innings). In 2010, Padilla missed large chunks of time with right elbow soreness and later a bulging disc in his neck, and was limited to 95 innings, his lowest total since 2001. Padilla made $5.025 million last season, $1 million of which was a signing bonus that will be paid on April 1, 2011.
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Happy
I would be happy with this.
So, I know it is possible talks are actually happening, but if there really is nothing going on, does Tony Jackson need to be held accountable for reporting lies?
by robotmadeofnails on Dec 7, 2010 7:17 AM PST reply actions
I don't think so
Jackson isn’t a rumor whore. I think he likely had an accurate source but the deal wasn’t far enough along that leaking it actually hurt the deal, which led to the quick denials.
we
Don’t know if there was a source or two that said this deal was possible. If reporters only wrote about things after the fact, what would gain from that?
I think it stands to reason that the Dodgers have inquired about Fielder. Their moves thus far indicate they are seeking to increase power in the lineup by signing Uribe and bringing back Gibbons and Barajas. It would be in keeping with that strategy to at least kick the tires on Fielder.
it's also possible
the Brewers broached the subject to the Dodgers, and didn’t like the response.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 7:51 AM PST up reply actions
TJax wasn’t the only one who heard these stories, there was at least some smoldering to produce that smoke.
"Baseball is the heart of America, I would never do anything to besmirch our National Pastime."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Dec 7, 2010 7:39 AM PST up reply actions
Plus it’s better than trading someone valuable for a bullpen arm.
"Baseball is the heart of America, I would never do anything to besmirch our National Pastime."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Dec 7, 2010 7:41 AM PST up reply actions
The devil's in the details
I like it too, but shouldn’t we wait until we see the incentives? What if he can make an addition $x mil based on games saved? Would that put undo pressure on Brox? Not trying to argue here; just thinking out loud. (In other words, never underestimate the power of Ned to screw up a simple transaction.)
12-man staff
Kershaw
Billingsley
Kuroda
Lilly
Garland
Broxton
Kuo
Jansen
Belisario
Elbert
Padilla
Hawksworth
Hawk being out of options really hamstrings the bullpen. I’m sure they intend to keep him, but chances are they’ll sign another middle reliever. Elbert probably has a good chance of winning the LH role.
That seems about right
Wouldn’t be shocked with a trade of Broxton, but I really do like that bullpen.
I’d still rather see Sherrill back on a 1mil deal with incentives based on IP/appearances.
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I'd rather just replace him with Elbert
younger, much cheaper, better stuff at this point if he can throw strikes like he has been in the AFL.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
agreed
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 7:57 AM PST up reply actions
we’re still talking about a kid who quit on the team for personal reasons, has never had extended MLB success (granted, probably due to inconsistent and unpredicatble MLB work) to go in there and face the other team’s best hitter in a crucial situation.
Sherrill at least proved he could still be extremely effective against lefties last year and would cost roughly 500k-1.5mil more than Elbert in base salary.
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true
but remember, the Dodgers gave him permission to leave IIRC. Guy just needed to get his head on straight, and it looks like he’s done that. Plus he’s out of options isn’t he?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:01 AM PST up reply actions
thanks
hard to keep track sometimes.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:08 AM PST up reply actions
well
it’s not as easy as getting someone to give you an easy link :)
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:17 AM PST up reply actions
All fair concerns
and I still think that when push comes to shove he’ll be the guy this year. A million more is still a million more for a LOOGY for a team that needs to focus whatever remaining money it has on another position player.
But we’ll see what they do. And I’ve generally been a Sherrill fan.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I see no reason to bring back Sherrill
when he failed so brilliantly last year. It was a trainwreck, time to move on.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 8:12 AM PST up reply actions
He didn't fail
he was failed. He was put in the wrong situation so many times it was baffling.
TSL vs Lefties: 85 PA, .192/.286/.288/.573
TSL vs righties: 95 PA, .427/.516/.707/1.223
How the FUCK did this guy face 10 more righties than lefties?
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Right
but once it was obvious he couldn’t get a righty out and that Kuo was hot shit, how hard is it to reverse those roles? They eventually did but it took until August to figure it out. How many more games would we have won if Sherrill didn’t bend over in the 6th inning throughout April-August.
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probably
early in the season when they didn’t take him out of his late-inning set-up role
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:18 AM PST up reply actions
Because there are more RHB than LHB, and sometimes even when a LOOGY is brought in the other manager counters with a pinch hitter.
I bet after June he faced more LHB than RHB
question
in that giants game where Donnie earned his nickname, does the fact that Torres turned around to bat RH make him listed as being a righty he faced?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:23 AM PST up reply actions
Fuck. I like this deal for the Rockies
Makes the Uribe contract look a lot worse. Although Uribe is a better defender, he is certainly not worth twice as much as Wiggington.
it's all relative
I’m going to like the Uribe deal next year when we don’t have a left side of the infield. His 2012 salary is going to be a cost savings over Furcal.
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Stark has
slightly different numbers, plus the option info:
2011: $4m
2012: $3.5m
2013: $4m option ($500k buyout)
Like I was going to get any work done anyway
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2010 7:45 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
"This is My Team!"
Feel free to use that Eric.
"Baseball is the heart of America, I would never do anything to besmirch our National Pastime."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Dec 7, 2010 7:55 AM PST up reply actions
http://www.celebritybrideguide.com/clayton-kershaw-wedding/
“Following the vows, guests were greeted with a ‘Welcome to Dodgertown’ sign at the reception. Kershaw hit the dance floor in blue sneakers…”
this might be our best news all winter.
he and his wife look so happy
it’s a nice little pick-me-up in a bleak and dreary winter
/wrists
Winter is coming.
God bless the Hot Stove season
and Buster Olney, Rumor-monger.
1) RT @Buster_ESPN: growing speculation among rival agents and executives that the Nationals are going to throw a HUGE number at Cliff Lee
2) RT @BloggingBombers: Source: Nationals to offer Cliff Lee a seven-year deal. Source says Yanks appear unwilling to go to a seventh year.
Moments later:
2) RT @AdamKilgoreWP: buzz that the Nats are going to throw seven years at Cliff Lee? “Not happening,” team source said. http://wapo.st/hEUMdC
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
LOLWinter meetings?
does that work?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 7:58 AM PST up reply actions
How about
LOLney, Buster.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
good
also acceptable is Buster LOLney
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:09 AM PST up reply actions
it takes 1 guy muttering under his breath
Royals getting close on agreement for three way deal Greinke to NYY, Gardner to LAD, prospects from LAD and NYY to KC, Yankees closing in on Crawford.
And all hell breaks loose.
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soap bubbles
for ALL!!!!!!!
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:09 AM PST up reply actions
I like this move
It’s nice to have him back, and he provides insurance in the rotation in case someone (Garland?) breaks down.
It’s too bad those Prince Fielder rumors were squashed though. I would make that trade in a heartbeat.
Nothing is ever easy.
by drulenarendes on Dec 7, 2010 8:14 AM PST up reply actions
Only reason I wish the baseball season was in December
is to hear Vin talk about Pearl Harbor.
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If we pool our money, do you think we could get him to sit down and record a years worth of “Today in History”-type podcasts?
heh
he makes up for it with his D-Day speech.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:15 AM PST up reply actions
Don't really understand this.
What makes the Dodgers think he can handle the swing man role? You’re basically asked to treat your arm like crap or Jeff Weaver.
I mean, I’m glad that Padilla is back, but asking a guy who had arm problems to try to pitch on a random schedule of 2 days to 7 days like a team uses a swing man is just confusing to me.
Its a $2mm depth signing
There is probably a 25% he starts the season in the rotation, a 25% he starts the season on the DL, and a 50% chance he is actually in the bullpen.
From someone who has done both (though never at the frequency or duration of a MLB schedule)
swingman is way easier than starting. Yes, you’re able to condition yourself and have a regimen as a starter, but when you’ve been throwing 100+ pitches for the last dozen years or so, only throwing 50 feels like a bullpen. You take a day off and you’re ready to throw 50 again. These starters throw that much in the bullpen between starts anyway, this really won’t be anything new unless he’s needed for multiple innings 2-3 days in a row. With the starting rotation we have, I just don’t see that happening.
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No matter how much they plan against it, it is inevitable that the Dodgers will need a sixth, and possibly seventh or eighth starter in 2011. $2 million for Padilla seems fine to me to be #6, even if it takes a week or two for him to adjust back to full starter role when needed.
Plus, his stuff is good enough for shorter stints and he could end up excelling in relief.
Right
his stuff is built for relief. not so much the eephus, but throwing 93-96 with downward sink is ideal for coming in and getting a couple quick outs.
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The eephus could be like the Gagne slow curve/change that, when after a fastball, could make batters look foolish. Of course, Padilla could need a neck brace after throwing it, too. :)
he needs to visit Kuroda’s acupuncturist. Didn’t Hiro have a bulging disk at the end of the 09 season?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:24 AM PST up reply actions
WELCOME BACK!
"Save that for the girl chat rooms. No here cares that you are sentimental and sweet. Jose [sic] already passed on you, Dodger SF is having a mid 20’s relationship crisis living in a town where she can’t love anyone because they are either gay or Giant fans, Maddz is stuck in Theology hell, and Teal is married. Not sure what is up with Connector. And my nieces are off limits. Sporky hates you because you adorn the cover of Jon’s book."
Good, means Martin won't be a Met at least...
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
i think it was reported earlier
Mets see him as too much of an injury risk.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:34 AM PST up reply actions
The only scenario I would be okay with now
would be for Russ to sign with the Blue Jays: he gets to play at home and we don’t have to see him help an evil empire win a ring without us. I’m almost ready to turn my #55 T-shirt into a rag…almost.
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Me too
I’d feel okay karmically if Russ goes to the Blue Jays, would be happy for him and don’t mind them. A good fit. Anywhere else will pretty much make me sad.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
my Nephew will be sad if he doesn't come back
Russell Martin may be his favorite Dodger. But the again he’s 4, so he’ll get over it.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:36 AM PST up reply actions
One of my good friends is in love with him
She’s been asking me every day if I’ve heard anything new about him and if there’s any chance he get’s brought back to LA. Loyal to the end…
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Your nephew will somehow learn to love again
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 8:40 AM PST up reply actions
like I said
he’s 4, almost 5. He loved Manny too, but he hasn’t been to broken up about him. A few rounds of Mario Kart Wii and he’ll be right as rain.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:42 AM PST up reply actions
that
and going to Disneyland on Thursday
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
I am going
as is his dad, stepmom, stepbrother, and stepgrandmother.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:49 AM PST up reply actions
4 year old and a granny? I suppose it’ll be an early night. I’ll be there sometime after work. Oh, wait, I think they’re on winter hours and close at 8 on Thursdays now. I’ll go Sunday with date #2.
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how 13 of you
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
It's okay
I only took offense to the word “alleged”.
Sorry dude, my business. I’ll stop mentioning it. Hopefully #2 works out because she’s the best of the three, and I’ll bring her to the first TBLA night of the season.
BTW, I doubt there’d be enough interest for a TBLA Spring Training weekend, but if multiple people are going we should figure out a weekend that works best and go together.
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i'm hoping
i can go this year.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
When you bring her to TBLA night, shoudl we call her #2?
I plan on going to spring training this year (as long as none of my friends ruin it again this year by getting married—-the selfishness)
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
LOL
When you bring her to TBLA night, should we call her #2?
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
I was thinking of going to see the Mar. 4-5 games
Giants Reds, and its the first week so you’ll get to see more of the prospects.
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Heh.
I’ll let you know. Wasn’t sure if you were going to be able to go this year.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
Just some unrequested advice
if any of these girls do work out, and they become interested in what you do on this blog, you are kind of screwed, which is why putting personal stuff in the public domain seems counter productive. I know in the facebook rage it is all the stuff, but no current girlfriend wants to know how much you liked the previous girlfriend unless the species has changed dramatically in the last 30 years.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
I'm not worried about it
All I’d have to do is start a rumor and there’d be a shitstorm of comments that would bury the thread in an hour.
Like I said, gonna stop mentioning it though. I’m sick of talking about it, it’s no one’s business but mine (even though I made it public knowledge, I know), and I’m sure you’re as annoyed of hearing about it as I am.
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You’re annoying about hearing about stuff you bring up?
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 9:02 AM PST up reply actions
i would rather have some fun with you for a couple months since we are off 4downs nuts. please continue.
If he's only 4
how could Russ be his favorite player. Russ has sucked since your nephew learned how to walk.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 8:47 AM PST up reply actions
because everytime the Dodgers come on
it’s “Where’s Russell Martin?” or when he’s hitting balls in the front yard, “I’m Russell Martin!”
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:50 AM PST up reply actions
When he's practicing in the front yard
Does he always roll over to the shortstop?
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by G.Scott on Dec 7, 2010 8:51 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
lol
I say in my head, “You’re doing better than him right now.” Honest to God, the kid once hit a wiffeball that went over our house, and it’s two stories!
Well I say over, but it went over the corner of the house, but it still went higher! a Moonshot!
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:53 AM PST up reply actions
LOL
no, it’s Kyle
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
What are we "rooting" for in the Divorce decision?
I have 5 bucks on Vlad Shpunt taking control. Just for the great odds I was given.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Ned does seem to have some V-Energy this offseason.
"Baseball is the heart of America, I would never do anything to besmirch our National Pastime."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Dec 7, 2010 8:32 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t know, but I think Frank might do the old drop-the-briefcase-behind-Jamie’s-chair trick to see if she turns around, thus proving that her neck is just fine and she was faking the injury to try to extort money from the hard-working Brady family.
hah hah
I swear I just referenced that episode the other day (when I briefly had a strained neck after a mild injury). Threatened to sue someone while wearing a fake whiplash brace.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
probably takes some time to read and hear potential statements from each side.. Molly, etc might not want to bolt out of the courtroom to tweet it.
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on Dec 7, 2010 8:45 AM PST up reply actions
As long as the Dodgers are the first of those ten teams
I’ll be fine. :-)
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
I don’t like the idea of bidding against 9 other teams for a platoon guy. The difference between Diaz, Franceouueour and Reed Johnson is not that significant ( IIRC) but the difference may be a couple million or an extra year that we didn’t have to spend.
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Agree in principle
but doesn’t Diaz have a bit more pop in his bat than Franceour? I liked Reed when he was playing healthy, but unfortunately that wasn’t a lot this past season, so I don’t consider him a viable option. It seems like Ned’s big focus has been to emphasize power…I’m suprised he didn’t try to hire Davey Johnson again. His managing style was easy to learn: step up to plate, hit home run, rinse, wash, repeat.
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Diaz knows his role
which is lefty masher, Franceour does not.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
this
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:53 AM PST up reply actions
Of those three
I’d still prefer Diaz. But you’re probably right there’s not a huge difference between them. I had liked Johnson as a platoon guy in the past but he didn’t impress me much as a Dodger. And was worse in the field than i expected him to be. Francoeur continues to strike me as overvalued and way too streaky. I’d rather have Diaz but maybe not enough to do a Sprockets dance over his signing.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I was (and still am) a fan of Reed Johnson, but empirically I was unimpressed with his defense. He seems to take weird and long routes many times out there.
Yeah I admit I soured on him
after watching him in that awful game vs Giants where he was in RF, not left, and was just lost out there. Ugh.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I just wonder
how many part time players can continue to play good defense when they lose the rep’s they were used to when they played everyday.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Per Molly
Breaking: Judge in Dodger divorce trial rules for Jamie McCourt, throws out marital property agreement. #dodgers
shite
the fight will continue long………
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
Would have anyway.
"Baseball is the heart of America, I would never do anything to besmirch our National Pastime."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Dec 7, 2010 9:05 AM PST up reply actions
Welcome back
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
The conspiracy theorist in me
had been wondering about this since the beginning: maybe the reason why the Dodgers’ budget has been bigger than we all assumed is because Frank knew he would lose the case, so he’s been allowing Colletti to spend money he doesn’t really have, with the end result being nothing for Jamie to acquire cash-wise. “Sorry honey, but I spent it all on Carl Crawford, Cliff Lee and Juan Uribe…good luck, bitch!” :-)
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
If you were rooting for a sale
you just got your first step.
If you were rooting for continued family ownership (albeit a jacked up family), prepare for NewsCorp.
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This is fabulous news
It may take awhile yet, but we will be free of the McCourts!
Nothing is ever easy.
by drulenarendes on Dec 7, 2010 9:03 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe you’ll get lucky and Donald Sterling will buy the team!
/devil you know
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
Well, I guess I don’t see why we root for the faceless “field” as opposed to somebody who has done a good job with the Dodger maintaining control. You are the biggest pessimist around yet you think that somebody who buys the team would just open up the wallet and buy free agents galore. Talk about pie in the sky optimism.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 9:09 AM PST up reply actions
I don't see
why getting rid of Frank has to be equated with your comment above. I’d simply like to get rid of the guy who thinks Ned Colletti was the best move he’s ever made.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
My comment above is just saying that there are FAR worse owners than Frank McCourt.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 9:13 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
My take on ownership
I’d rather have an owner who is rich and derives his wealth from a multitude of businesses, resources and investments than a guy who over-levered to the brim to buy a sports team and some over-priced mansions.
In both cases, the owner wants to make money from the team because it is after all a business. However, the first owner doesn’t necessarily need tomake money from the team, whereas for the second guy, he has nothing without the team.
Who wouldn’t prefer that? Have you any reason to believe that guy #1 is out there ready to buy the Dodgers?
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions
When the Dodgers get sold if they get sold
it will not be to an over leveraged owner because in today’s environment that sale would never have taken place.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
So, if the lending environment was different back when Frank bought it, things would be better? Nobody else was beating down the door to buy this team and you would have had a corporate owner who wanted to exit their investment. It would have been ugly (IMO.)
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
MLB is also in a better environment than in 2004. You’re telling me that nobody rich wants to own a team in the 2nd largest market in the country, in an industry that is making record revenue every year, and has a built in fan base that shows up every season?
All of those points were true in 2004. And the economy at large was more robust.
Anyway, I’m really just not a fan of pinning my hopes on some theoretical superhero out there who is going to make all of our dreams a reality.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
Except then, a lot of people bought into the myth that the Dodgers were bleeding money. Yes, it was true, but Frank McCourt proved that you can raise prices on L.A. Fans and they’ll cry and ask for more. If McCourt did anything, it was that he proved you can make money with the Dodgers as is.
I don't mind the increased prices
if I can see a return in the product.
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Also, I think you’re ignoring how much Fox corp and MLB steered the sale to Frank McCourt.
The McCourt sale was nowhere near SOP.
It was as unique a sale as MLB has ever done
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Right
and I think they now (hopefully) look at it with regret and realize one of the crown jewels of MLB franchises deserves solid ownership that at least has a reputation and some liquidity.
If they can find good owners for the Rangers, they can find it for LA. I just can’t believe that after 2 underwhelming ownership regimes in a row, we would get a third.
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
Really.
What I want is the rich Russian billionaire to buy the Dodgers so I can make “Opulence, I has it.” jokes.
No, but I don’t think you’re trying to see McCourt’s flaws. You’re just saying “Hey look, two NLCS!!!!!!” Well, okay, but what was the cost of that?
I don’t know if any new owner would spend more on players, I do know that an owner that fires his GM into two seasons because his Russian Mystic told him to has some issues.
What was the cost of that? What was damaged by the two NLCS runs?
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 9:13 AM PST up reply actions
A chance to extend this current run? Not carrying a high debt load? Being able to spend more on FA’s? Not having to trade better prospects for average players, for one.
You’d rather Frank not spend money (money that comes from debt I guess) if it means that the team doesn’t go to the NLCS? Um, why?
I can think of one horrible move that you could have said from the NLCS run.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
This is fucking stupid
deep playoff runs are good and don’t happen very often. If the cost of making a run every few years is having a down year or two, then fine.
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But that is not Ned's plan
he just happened to have a down year. Do you guys really want to start defending Ned’s run as GM as the reason for Frank McCourt being a good owner? Because I’ll take it apart when I find the time. At best Ned was fortitious to have Kershaw dropped in his lap, to have Lowe and Kent on the team when he took over, to have Billingsley, Broxton, and Martin on the team when he took over.
He made one brilliant move during his five year run and that was taking advantage of the Manny situation. He made one good free agent signing in Kuroda in five years.
But if Ned is the kind of GM you guys can get behind then get on the fucking Loney bandwagon because he’s driving it.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
I wasn't defending Frank or Ned
I was saying that it’s stupid to argue that the costs of putting together a playoff team outweigh the benefit of making the NLCS because you might be hamstrung for a couple years.
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I know what you are saying
and if that had been Ned’s plan then you might actually have an argument but it wasn’t, we just sucked in 2010 because he counted on a DH to play LF, counted on the core to perform, counted on Furcal to be healthy, counted on an old 3rd baseman to hold back the hands of time, counted on terrible NRI"s to help the team.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Right
Ned was shitty last year, but I don’t know how much of the blame is actually his, and he seems to be a lot more aggressive this winter (saving his job, finally has money, who knows what the motivation is).
In all of his years as Dodgers GM, Ned has been aggressive in pursuing team needs. They haven’t worked out, but at least when we needed a good SP, he got the best one in schmidt. When we needed a CF, he got the best one in Pierre. When that didn’t work out and we needed another CF, he got Andruw Jones.
They’re all regrettable in hindsight, but I have to think last offseason’s passive moves were so far out of his SOP that it wasn’t his directive.
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Except most of Ned’s moves to get to the NLCS in both years didn’t need to be made.
The Sherrill trade was about left handed pitching depth to an already stacked bullpen. Giving up Santana for Casey Blake is already hurting the Dodgers bad. They need a starting catcher in the worst way.
Manny just fell on his lap. And that 2008 team had the highest payroll, but on a given night would field a team of 8 players on the minimum salary threshold + Manny whose salary was paid by the Red Sox that season.
That was not Ned’s plan.
Dodgers wouldn't have made
the playoffs in 08 w/out Blake, he solidified a prime position. I miss Santana too, but that’s the reality.
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
BS
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
I think Dodgers made the playoff cause of Manny that year, but Blake indeed solidified a 3rd base with good defense during that year.
Blake was okay
to say he’s the reason they made the playoffs is probably incorrect. Manny is and was the reason the Dodgers made the playoffs.
They were 65 – 70 on Aug 29th, 4.5 games behind the Diamondbacks when they started their run led by Manny’s incredible run.
During that run from Aug 29th to the end of the year then went 18 – 8 and Casey Blake provided the following production a .744 OPS. I doubt that was the difference between winning and losing the pennant.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Blake helped
he was not as important as Manny offensively, for sure. I just maintain that there is some alchemy that goes on (yes, the dreaded “intangibles”) when a team gets on a roll like that one.
Ned made an awful decision in trading Santana, but it just goes in the scrapheap of expensive trade deadline deals that every GM is guilty of. I’m sure even Pat Gillick made a few of those (certainly not comparing the two!).
OK, I’m not mentioning this anymore, promise.
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
Furcal and Ethier were pretty good too, but for the most part Ned has been coasting by on other peoples work. JerrySands.gif just makes me believe even more the farm system has gone dry under Ned, and the Uribe and Barajas signings just show a complete inability to evaluate talent.
Aren’t you always saying that most GMs are stupid or at a minimum pretty bad?
Taking it from that lens, rooting for Frank to sell because that means Ned is gone too seems wrong headed.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
I’d like Ned and Frank gone too, but that is absurd to make a statement about the state of the Dodgers’ farm system by looking at a GIF of one swing.
Just based on statistics
the odds of having even 1 player from a draft become a MLB regular is pretty low, the odds of having two is beyond hopeful, and the odds of having 3 or more are nigh astronomical. To have a good system requires consistent suckitude at the MLB level and STILL a lot of luck.
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so because of one top prospect
you take them over the dodgers? What if Belt’s year was a fluke and he fails? What do the Giants have to fall back on? I know you are more of a top heavy type of guy but Belt isn’t someone you should be hitching your wagon to.
Except you can say the same things about the Dodgers. And Sands isn’t the top prospect for the Dodgers, it’s likely still Dee Gordon.
And if Dee Gordon is your top prospect, you just might have issues.
I haven’t seen a minor league season that good since Andy LaRoche!
But yeah, for the most part I am a huge top heavy guy. If Sands becomes the next Jonny Gomes, it’s nice, but you could also just sign Jonny Gomes. If your farm system isn’t producing the type of guys you can’t get in free agency, it’s not going to mean much in the end.
If nothing else
you could sign a Jonny Gomes for less each year than Sands would get in arbitration in his first year for the same production.
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how about...
your system is producing guys you can get in free agency at 1/10th of the free agency prices which allows you to sign the upper tier guys in free agency?
Exactly. You really have to just get lucky to come up with a Longoria, Zimmerman, Kershaw, Braun, etc…
This. Why waste $2M here or $4.5M there on bench players or bullpen guys and save that for a difference maker in FA.
Because difference makers are few and far between and the Yankees/Red Sox end up getting most of them.
The same is also true of difference makers coming up from the farm, its few and far between. I’ll take our farm system that could produce backend starters or bench players or maybe even league average players.
Much more common from the draft. I’m not talking about superstar level talent. For the most part you can’t get a Billingsley or Ethier in free agency either. I just don’t see the Dodgers producing any above average players from their current crop.
by regfairfield on Dec 7, 2010 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
now we're arguing
over what should be done. which is a different argument.
the point is, that option is there and that is a route you can choose. In the end, any prospect that becomes a major league player is valuable due to the slavery system MLB has of 6 cost controlled years.
Giants? Seriously…
The Giants have Belt and a prayer in Wheeler and not much after that. Very little depth.
The Mariners and Rangers are maybe a notch above us, but not by much due to graduations.
The Angels have Trout which will prop them up, but not a whole lot after him.
A’s are solid as usual.
That said, we don’t have any clear A prospects, but probably have more B- to B+ guys than any of those teams. Would it be nice to have a superstar prospect? Of course, but there aren’t enough to go around every year.
It is
but I expect his point is that Sands is our number one prospect and he might have a ceiling of Johnny Gomes. Reg does not have the greatest history with prospects so I’d take his comment with a grain of salt.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Frank is a middling owner
and Ned is a middling GM….the Dodgers and their fans certainly deserve better, but neither are awful. A middling organization just won the WS, so a great 2011 is possible if not probable. Again, it could be worse, so a lot of this is hyperbole.
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
Except we don’t know if its only a year or two. Somebody mentioned up thread that McCourt isn’t Drayton McLane, but the Astros did a lot of similar moves during the later half of 2000’s to ‘contend’. Teams good enough to finish over .500 but nowhere near the playoffs.
is he really that bad an owner anymore?
with the cap rules, he can not go all nats and overpay on the only good FA every year. i think he would do it.
I’m not sure. The past few years have been pretty mellow. The failings are had to pin on the owner.
by Michael White on Dec 7, 2010 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
Donald Sterling has become a better owner because...
he doesn’t even know the guys he is signing.
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Ask
every coach he has tried to fire without honoring their contract.
Best thing to ever happen to Sterling was Elton Brand being a smart douche and leaving town.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
I remember being genuinely upset about that
Especially because Davis was signing and expected to have him there to anchor the front line…it’s a good thing he’s sucked his he left, so the anger has faded away slowly and gracefully. What happened to EB? He used to be 20/10 every night, damn near guaranteed…sad face.
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Knee injuries
in basketball can be the difference between dominance and mediocre
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Agreed
Penny and T-Mac come to mind immediately…sucks majorly. Those guys were indeed dominant when healthy.
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Hill started drinking the Fountain of Life water in Phoenix
but yes, it’s good to see him bounce back from all those injuries. I don’t like Amarè, but I’m glad he’s healthy and producing again…
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Yeah
but Grant Hill without the injuries would have been the player of the 21st century.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
This could be the worst news
1. Jamie may not force a sale because they Dodgers are worth more in theory then in practice. Remember a forced sales is split 50% after the debt arrangements are paid out, and capital gain taxes are completed.
2. She might be better off financially draining Frank of so many millions per year leaving less money to invest in to the Dodgers.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
OMG.
Not expected.
"Baseball is the heart of America, I would never do anything to besmirch our National Pastime."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Dec 7, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
I am happy
We’re one step closer to ending the McCourts’ reign of buffoonery.
Lots more steps to go, of course, but it’s a start.
Also that a settlement might be more likely now, Dodger Divorce concurs.
"Baseball is the heart of America, I would never do anything to besmirch our National Pastime."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Dec 7, 2010 9:11 AM PST up reply actions
kengurnick Ken Gurnick
Joe Rorre said he won’t manage again but hasn’t decided if he’ll return to broadcasting or a Dodgers advisor role. See Dodgers,com for more
This Rorre guy sounds alright.
My Dad said
he was a good broadcaster with the Angels.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
He was very good. Great voice. Good insight.
by Eric Stephen on Dec 7, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I enjoy seeing him
on some Monday night games on ESPN or something. Maybe if Bobby V gets a manager job.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 7, 2010 8:56 AM PST up reply actions
Ruh-roh
"Baseball is the heart of America, I would never do anything to besmirch our National Pastime."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Dec 7, 2010 9:03 AM PST up reply actions
That's Scooby Doo's favorite manager.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
wow
his hands are super low when he begins his approach to the ball. When his front foot lands he’s actually in a realy good spot, but then he drops his hands. Usually this leads to more lazy fly ball contact and getting beat on offspeed pitches.
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another player came to mind
jonny gomes. those are the two right handed hitters his swing reminds me of.
firewalled
but youtube also tends to be slow on these things. I can’t wait to see him in March. I want to see a King of the Mountain between him and Rubby.
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If you watch that whole video, I don’t think his bat speed is that bad. He seems to have a timing tic where he sort of strides twice in his bad swings. In his good swings his stride is shorter and he keeps his weight back and generally looks more balanced. When he replicates the shorter stride, with more weight on his back foot, while maintaining his timing, the swings look good.
Another sign not to expect a trade for Willingham
(if true)
Josh Willingham may have become expendable for the Nationals with the Jayson Werth signing, but Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets that the asking price is said to be absurd.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
(from MLBTR)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
maybe Ned
was just being petty with his demands for that Loney trade then….I’ll show you (shakes fist)!!
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
Could be
you want Dee and Trayvon for Willingham? Well I want Desmond and Zimmerman for Loney.
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finally back
This is my first post in over a year! I still read all of the comments daily. I have turned my best friend on to SB Nation and he has made it his home page (Yankees fan though). I have recently gotten engaged and she has become a Dodger fan by default. She really tries though, she knows what position each top prospect plays when I bring them up in conversation. She also encourages me to get excited about offseason transactions even though everyone heres rationale ends up bringing me back to reality. I have learned so much from you guys and baseball has always been my life. Growing up in Vero has been awesome and I have met a lot of my heros because of it. Its great to be back and I really appreciate everyones insight.
by VeroJoe on Dec 7, 2010 9:39 AM PST via mobile reply actions
She really tries though, she knows what position each top prospect plays when I bring them up in conversation.
She is so far ahead of the game compared to most gf/finace/wives, you’re a lucky, lucky man.
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A head of the game
compared to most fans period.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Welcome back
But shouldn’t you be GlendaleJoe now? ;-)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
LOL
I wish more than anything that they would have stayed in Vero but I want whatever is best for the team and moving to Glendale seemed to make sense for them. We had a great run though! Lasorda still comes into my Dad’s restaurant when he is in town and Perranoski eats there daily. I’ve known him since I was born so he has always been “Uncle Ron”, and still is. BY THE WAY I PRINTED OUT THE POST ABOUT HIM THAT WAS ON HERE A WAY BACK WHEN HE WAS VOTED ON THE ALL TIME DODGERS TEAM BY YOU GUYS. HE WAS EXTREMELY FLATTERED. HE IS SUCH A HUMBLE GUY.
I wanted to mention this because some of you said some really nice things about him on here and he isn’t a computer guy so had I not had printed it out he would have never known. It was really special to him that you guys did that.
by VeroJoe on Dec 7, 2010 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
you're very welcome
I won’t go in to details Eric but believe me when I say he was very touched. I had also written him a long personal letter about his influence on my life and attached what you guys did to it as well. Needless to say a very emotional moment but it instantly became a moment that I will remember for the rest of my life. He is a great man and has done so much for me that I will be forever greatful. Your guys post about him prompted me to write the heartfelt letter and he doesn’t have a lot of Family.
by VeroJoe on Dec 7, 2010 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Welcome back Joe
and thanks for sharing that story with us.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
For those who want to exercise their Dodger team building skills
http://www.truebluela.com/2010/12/7/1861565/dodger-opening-day-2011-roster-contest
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
I got a smart phone so...
I plan on joining the conversation with you guys from here on out thanks to my new phone. It’s my daughter’s 8th Birthday today and she looooves the Dodgers as well. For some reason she likes anything I like, it’s adorable. She loves Eminem but I promise I’m a good Dad, I always play the edited versions when she is in the car. She sings the hook and I do the verses LOL. You guys have been talking about kareoke on here and I’m a big fan of that as well. I have recently placed 2nd in a contest with over a hundred people thanks to my Eminem mimicking ability. I wish I could go to where you guys go, it sounds like it would be epic. Nothing better than making a fool of yourself amongst friends!
I spoke with someone recently who just moved to FL from LA
and he is a High School Baseball Coach. After a couple of in depth conversations with him I have now become extremely optimistic about Zach Lee. He went on and on and on about his makeup and his ability to hit spots. I have learned that most prospects don’t pan out but I still believe that Zach Lee is special because of his athleticness. Scratch Golfer, Football Star etc. If he comes close to his ceiling I think he would be an AWESOKE compliment to Clayton Kershaw. I also want to get excited about Sands but I do see his flaws which need to be mended. That being said, 35 HR’s is something that doesn’t happen that often and he is still young. We need power in a BAD way and I don’t see our farm producing all that much of it. Russell’s K numbers are horrendous and he would be lucky to produce a Rob Deer statline so I don’t see him making the big league club. I still have all my cards on Dee Gordon, I love that kid! As for our pitchers on the farm I know they have nasty stuff but is it me or do they all seem to have control issues? Is there anything Management can do to fix this? I know Hough does a great job but this common trend concerns me since we never seem to be in the mix for top free agent arms like Cliff Lee. Any thoughts? Also I really want to see us do something about our future behind the dish….obviously Barajas is not the answer. Other than the Yankees do any teams have a plethora of catching depth that we can trade for?
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