Greatest Laker ever?
by meercatjohn on Feb 4, 2010 1:43 PM PST
in Non-Baseball
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Kobe is now the greatest scorer in Laker history, a history loaded with some of the greatest basketball players in the history of the game. Has he done enough to now be considered the greatest Laker of all time?
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I feel very certain
that I could take those six players and beat any combination of players in the history of basketball.
Magic – PG
West – SG
Kobe – SF
Elgin – PF
Kareem – C
Give me Wilt/Shaq/Mikan off the bench along with Gail Goodrich, James Worthy, Jamal Wilkes. Oh My
I agree
but man, the Celtics’ All-Time 5 is pretty awesome too:
PG – Cousy
SG – Havlicek
SF – Bird
PF – McHale
C – Russell
I love Kobe to death, but this shouldn’t even be up for debate. IMO, Kobe is at best 4th (behind Magic, Kareem, and West) and maybe between 5-7 (depending on how you view Elgin, Shaq, and Mikan). Wilt wasn’t a Laker long enough to be ahead of Kobe so he’s probably 8th.
I"m not even a Kobe fan but I can't agree
He’s now surpassed West easily in my eye. I was around when West was best and even with the team loaded like the Lakers were the West teams could not beat the best Celtic or Knick teams. He has now played longer then Magic and has taken a team of average talent to the promised land. Magic had an incredible array of talent around him compared to the crew Kobe works with. HOF talent, not above average talent like Odom and Gasol. Magic was much more fun to watch but I’d be hard pressed to say he was a better basketball player then Kobe. I don’t even think Kareem is in the picture but that is just me.
Verlander contract details
per Biz of Baseball:
$500k signing bonus
2010 (6th yr): $6.75m
2011 (FA 1): $12.75m
2012-14: $20m/yr
King Felix’s is spread out a bit different (and worth $2m less in total):
$3.5m signing bonus
2010 (6th yr): $6.5m
2011 (FA 1): $10m
2012: $18.5m
2013: $19.5m
2014: $20m
1.Magic 2. Kobe 3. West 4.Jabbar 5. Tie Baylor/Mikan
If we are talking playing days that is how I rate them. If you include all time with franchise I would go:
1. West
2. Magic
3 Kobe
Magic still rules in LA
interesting, he’s been retired now for almost 20 years, I wonder how many voting actually saw him play? Something I’ll always cherish was his attitude on and off the court.
I was going to Glendale College when Magic was playing at Michigan State. I didn’t follow college basketball at all other then UCLA games and could not understand why all my friends were now watching the little sports station called ESPN that showed tiddly wink tournaments and tons of college basketball. A basketball player in one of my classes started talking about the Magic kid at Michigan State and talked about him in awe. A few weeks later the tournament started so I tuned in for the first time to watch a team other then UCLA. I have never stopped watching College Basketball because watching Magic win that title was a revelation about how great college basketball was.
The Lakers best player the year before was I believe Charlie Scott. In my mind I can remember being at the last game of the year and hearing the announcer saying something along the lines of come back next year if you believe in Magic. The rest is history. Lucky are us who saw it from the beginning to the end and even the comeback.
I clearly remember 86 and beyond with Magic. First Laker game I ever went to – if my memory serves me that he made a running hook from FT line at buzzer against the Suns for the win.
I know Kareem
beat the Clippers with what looked like a 30 foot hook shot as the clock expired and Magic grabbed him in a bearhug and the look on Kareem’s face was priceless as I’m sure he had never been hugged like before during the regular season. Or ever probably.
1979 Game Six Finals
still my most cherished game. Even more then the Gibson game. I haven’t watched that even one time since it happened. I need to do that someday when I’m incredibly depressed. I figured I’d watch it the day Magic died expecting him not to last long after we heard he had aids but now it looks like he’ll live for a long time yet, so no reason not to watch it now. Now I just need to find the full game somewhere.
Oh Man
it was only a 15 foot hook, my memory had much much further out. Only the Clippers would drop the ball off their foot out of bounds with two seconds to go with the lead.
Dan Ford Dan Ford
This is the one I remember against the Suns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KSsm3bfFe0&feature=related
Was that the game?
I remember that shot because of the way he just ran off the court. Classic.
That next season, 1989-1990, I pulled a Cal Ripken (or A.C. Green I guess)…I watched every minute of every Laker game that season. Free from the burdens of having a job (I turned 14 that season) I had a lot of free time.
George Mikan
the most dominant player of his time gets no votes. It is kind of like not rooting for Babe Ruth.
My list
1. Magic
2. Kareem
3. Kobe
4. West
5. Chamberlin
What a group, I think Magic will always be my favorite, but I think before it’s all said and done Kobe will go down as the greatest. I think the fact that Magic has been with the Lakers for so long and just made them such a fun team to watch makes him the greatest. He’s almost the Laker equivilant to Tommy Lasorda in that way, the lifetime-ambassador for not only the team, but the game as a whole.
Woohoo, I get to look forward to another 7-6 season ("at best") in 2010! There's nothing like going to Idaho for a bowl game.
Magic and Kareem are my favorite lakers of all time but I am starting to come around to the idea that Kobe may be the best. When you look at all the things he does night in and night out, all the good (formerly great) defensive work, all the little tricks he pulls on opponents, it becomes more clear that he may end up being the best Laker ever if he is able to be productive or the next 5 ore more years.
by LA Taco on Feb 4, 2010 3:05 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I begin to wonder if Hudson really would have declined arb, or if his agent would have talked him into accepting it. Maybe he thought he could get a 2/12 contract like Sanchez and DeRosa got from Sabean.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
It would have required an awful lot of stubbornness and/or spite for Hudson to decline, I think. It just depends on how pissed he was at Torre. My reasoning for wanting to offer him arb was because I would have been OK if he accepted, but in Hudson’s case I can see the argument that he would have accepted (Wolf, however, was declining no matter what IMO)
I look at it almost in reverse. Wolf could have accepted and used that carrot as a way to get a multi-year deal out of the Dodgers (his preferred choice).
Hudson wasn’t going to come back.
There was a market for Wolf, not for Hudson. Wolf was the 2nd best starting pitcher on the FA market, behind Lackey.
Wolf was coming off three straight one-year deals, and after finally being healthy for an extended stretch, this was his last best chance to strike a multi-year deal.
Understood. But let’s say he really wanted to stay with the Dodgers. If he had accepted, do you think they would have come to an agreement on a multi year deal (say, 2 years/16M)?
No
I don’t think the Dodgers were handing out multi-year deals to anyone they weren’t buying out of arbitration.
They may have reached a multi-year contract, but in that scenario Wolf would have been better off still by declining. Even with the scarlet A, he would have had multi-year offers from multiple teams, and could have used those to drive up the Dodger offer, or used the Dodgers to drive up other offers.
You know what happens when you refuse because of spite
Better players did refuse arbitration and accepted less money to play elsewhere. But one thing, both Wolf and Hudson would have made more money in 2010 if the Dodgers had offered arbitration and they accepted their offer.
Yes, but I have to assume that Randy Wolf, from his own first-hand experience, knows that he can’t assume that his arm/body will hold up, and if he has a very good chance to get significantly more guaranteed dollars total in a multi-year deal, the time was now.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Silly Me.
I used to watch Magic in college and think, mmhh that big , slow guy handling the ball so much, I could take it away from him everytime. Thought that we should have taken Moncrief in the draft.
SBNation's AZ Snakepit
has a nice part one of an interview with the Diamondbacks GM, Josh Byrnes, up on their blog. It’s an interesting read. Byrnes even says things like “OPS+ or ERA+” and discusses some of their thinking on their biggest off-season move:
[Max Scherzer’s] at a point in his career where to get to that next level, would be something he’d have to go out and prove. Edwin Jackson has gotten there and, again, Ian Kennedy, we feel like we got six years of a very solid starting pitcher. Not a decision we took lightly, …
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I hate these type of questions
cause I havent seen any of these guys beside Kobe play. I have to vote for the only one i saw play… man, i wish i was 10-15 years older sometimes… same with those Dodger teams of the 80s. I didnt see any of that :(
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Feb 4, 2010 5:06 PM PST reply actions
Ha
I felt that way back in the 70’s because I was to young to have seen the 60’s teams and Koufax. Really just Koufax.
It sucks
when Im on websites like this and the discussions are about history and I have no idea what they are talking about, except for being able to look at the stats…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Feb 4, 2010 5:22 PM PST up reply actions
If it makes you feel any better
I feel the same about Jackie, Newk, Campy, Pee Wee and Joe Black. Oh and Pete Reiser.
I dont think many people who use the internet
remember them… haha
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Feb 4, 2010 6:18 PM PST up reply actions
Ol' 55
I am a bit beyond that, but its probably the minimum age one would have to be to have had a chance to witness basically the entire history of the LA Dodgers and Lakers.
take off 39 years and you got me :)
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Feb 4, 2010 5:21 PM PST up reply actions
Then you are a little young to be certain about “4life” about most things! :)
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
haha
I was born in NY, with my parents and grandparents having been raised there(my grandparents, both sets, came through Ellis Island as young kids). My Yankee roots run deep, especially because my grandfather was a grocery delivery boy for Babe Ruth in the 20s…. when I moved out to LA in 2000 and couldnt watch the Yankees, I fell in love with Dodgers(they were the first team I actually saw live). As Im sure you know, until you get into your teenage years, kids dont care about the offseason of baseball. So I was bored(the Lakers were winning) and my friends got me into basketball…. I have some weird connections to teams and most of them run pretty deep.
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Feb 4, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
was it injuries or not improving that screwed him?
He is still just 25 and hit 281 in the minors last year, maybe he has something left…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Feb 4, 2010 6:47 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know, guys . . .
I kinda miss Vlade Divac.
by Dr. Geek on Feb 4, 2010 6:54 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
On the plus side, the Dodgers aren’t the Red Sox, so Gammons’ knowledge on the subject isn’t as sharp.
On the minus side, do any of us think the Dodgers will have significant money to take on a contract or two during the season?
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Maybe a couple mil like last year
by Eric Stephen on Feb 4, 2010 8:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Ned might be willing to just throw in the Isotopes if he’s short of cash.
by prosellis on Feb 4, 2010 9:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I voted for Magic
Kobe is the best basketball player to ever play for the Lakers, but he still has a ways to go before he surpasses the lifetime of achievement Magic did (aka making those leprocons his bitches).
That and the fact that Magic did it in those short shorts, Kobe had the benefit of being able to have the pride of wearing decent sized garments.
ROTFLMAO
(aka making those leprocons his bitches).
by MammothDodger on Feb 5, 2010 9:22 AM PST up reply actions
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