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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Scrap Heap Gold

Thar's gold in them there scrap heap mountains of NRI's and waiver claims.  You can't find em with strip mining the hills but with careful pan mining, throwing out the sandstone while looking for the nuggets. Almost always the nuggets will be small but sometimes they weigh in quite heavy ala the Alvarez or Saito nugget.

I'm not going to do this for all major league teams,and it is possible this is a trend that every team has but it seems to me the Dodgers have more luck then the average team in finding nuggets instead of fools gold.

While the debate rages on if Russ or Ramon Ortiz can help the Dodgers in 2010, I decided to look back over the past decade to see how many pitchers we collected on waivers or signed as NRI's that produced an ERA+ greater then 100. If you only  looked at their most recent past you would have felt we were wasting our time. Anyone who has followed the Dodgers should recall Jose Lima, might recall Wilson Alveraz, but I doubt they would remember all of these pitchers who we picked up off the scrap heap.

Luckily the Dodgers did not just go by the numbers and brought these pitchers in to see what they had, and when given a chance they produced at levels much higher then their prior season. It is not something you plan on but it is not something you should discount so easily.  Some of these pitchers once had skills, some never had skills. We will never know why Giovanni Carrera was lights out in Dodger Blue but the fact remains, he was.

Talk has centered on the small sample size of spring training. Just about all the names below made the team based on the small sample size of spring training. The coaches/scouts looked at their stuff disregarded the prior numbers, and decided the stuff was good enough to put them on the roster. Luckily for us they did.

Dodger blog sites seem be a site for ageism bias and if you are over 30 you are suspect. I'll be the first to raise my hand that I'd rather see a prospect pitching then a washed up veteran but sometimes we seem a little to anxious to end a man's career.  As the list below shows, veterans have a place in baseball, even ones who appear to be washed up. Pitchers ebb and flow, and we never know as fans just exactly why sometimes they click and sometimes they don't. We can use the numbers to make informed guesses on expectations but what we don't know are what the scouts/coaches are seeing.

I was very arrogant back in 2005 when it came to Scott Erickson and was disgusted with Depodesta for giving him a shot. I was right, but really I was wrong. Scott Erickson could have been one of these guys, but this time he wasn't.  We can use the numbers to help up project the future but only the most arrogant can really believe the numbers will always tell the tale. Simply to many variables go into the success of a player, year in and year out to say with certainty that so and so is going to fail if we give him a chance. Eric Milton only got a few starts before his back went out but he certainly deserved the chance that very few wanted to give him last year.

 

Player Year Prior ERA+ ERA+
Mike Fetters 2000 77 126
Giovanni Carrera 2001 -17 121
Hideo Nomo 2002 101 111
Wilson Alvarez 2003 81 141
Tom Martin 2003 -103 113
Jose Lima 2004 100 101
Giovanni Carrera 2004 43 147
Duaner Sanchez 2004 -157 118
Takashi Saito 2006 Japan 154
Aaron Sele 2006 65 100
Joe Beimel 2006 85 135
Rudy Seanez 2007 67 115
Chan Ho Park 2008 81 119
Reynaldo Belisario 2009 DNP 149
Jeff Weaver 2009 DNP 108
Vicente Padilla 2009 94 120

 

Notes:

Beimel pitched 11 innings in 2005 and one inning in 2004 but 2003 was the last time he really pitched in the majors and that was when he posted the 85 ERA+

Jeff Weaver did not pitch in 2008 and had an ERA+ of 59 in 2007.

I'm using Padilla's 2009 with Texas as his prior

I"m fudging with Nomo and Lima but no one expected what we got out of them even though they had been league average the year before. Add in the playoff game from Lima and I'd say we got much more then we bargained for.

Poll
Will the Dodgers continue the trend and get a ERA+ of 100 or greater in 2010 from one of these pitchers?
Ramon Ortiz
74 votes
Russ Ortiz
10 votes
Josh Towers
9 votes
Justin Miller
5 votes
Luis Ayala
2 votes
Carlos Monesterios
57 votes
Not bloody likely
37 votes

194 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 41 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Giovanni Carrara

Might just be one of the most confusing players in the history of ever. Guy failed numerous times to catch on, comes to the Dodgers… and becomes damn near an all-star. Leaves, becomes crap again, comes back to the Dodgers, and is even better.

I guess smog just agrees with him.

by EMDarrow on Mar 24, 2010 1:48 PM PDT reply actions  

Whoever the person was

he should have taken such person with him when he left.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Mar 24, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

You know, he had a big 1.1 IP during a certain October Saturday afternoon game at DS in 2004 against the Giants. Him spiking the ball was my favorite Gio moment.

by delias man on Mar 24, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

just like chan ho park

chan ho great with the dodgers… leaves and becomes sucky for 5 yeears… comes back and is again great… but then left and was pretty good for the phils

by matthewmafa on Mar 24, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who is that Belisario guy?

by delias man on Mar 24, 2010 2:13 PM PDT reply actions  

FYI

Ramon Oritz has had four seasons in which he posted an ERA+ > 100, last one was in 2004

Russ Ortiz has had five seasons in which he posted an ERA+ > 100, last one was in 2004

Josh Towers had had two seasons in which he posted an ERA+ >100, last one in 2005

Luis Ayala as recently as last year had an ERA+ > 100 while with the Twins. Back in 2003-2005 he was a very good relief pitcher. I believe he hurt his arm during the first WBC and missed all of 2006 but bounced back in 2007 to be very good.

Justin Miller has actually had three straight seasons with an ERA+ > 100. His K rate had decline rapidly over the last three years.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Mar 24, 2010 2:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Memories

of I Spy and Man From Uncle when they were must watch TV. I’m having a hard time reconciling someone being born in 1930 as 80 years old. Hope Bill lives quite a bit longer.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Mar 24, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

He is the second

of Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice to depart us.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Mar 24, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Time to re-watch some Greatest American Hero

by Eric Stephen on Mar 24, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Hope he stays, but I would not be sad to get Jamie Dixon.

by trainwreck84 on Mar 24, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

A really good source says

he is not leaving. That source was the person in question calling the editor of the site.

by bhsportsguy on Mar 24, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Two of my favorite AAA

veteran Isotopes from last year Hector Luna and Scott Strickland look like they might land jobs with the Marlins.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Mar 24, 2010 2:44 PM PDT reply actions  

Going out on a limb and saying Lindblom will be wicked great tonight.

by silverwidow on Mar 24, 2010 2:58 PM PDT reply actions  

It seems strange to have night baseball after all the days games.

by kinbote on Mar 24, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

haha

They are the first to bring that conspiracy theory going…

by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Mar 24, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Furcal SS Kemp CF Ethier RF Ramirez LF Loney 1B Blake 3B Anderson DH DeWitt 2B Ellis C Kuroda RHP

by Eric Stephen on Mar 24, 2010 3:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Speak of the devil, Ramon Ortiz and Josh Towers will start tomorrow against the Brewers.

by Eric Stephen on Mar 24, 2010 4:10 PM PDT reply actions  

start = pitch

They are the only two pitchers listed.

by Eric Stephen on Mar 24, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oakland

Crisp 8
Davis 7
Suzuki 2
Kouzmanoff 5
Chavez 3
Sweeney 9
Cust DH
Rosales 4
Pennington 6

Gonzalez LHP

by Eric Stephen on Mar 24, 2010 4:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Dodger pitchers tonight

Kuroda
Lindblom
Troncoso
Ayala

Gonzalez and Cahill (at least) are pitching for Oakland

by Eric Stephen on Mar 24, 2010 4:19 PM PDT reply actions  

In case I'm not around

the game thread will be up around 6:30 (game is at 7:30)

by Eric Stephen on Mar 24, 2010 4:36 PM PDT reply actions  

ERA+ has just been recalculated to where 150+ actually does mean you’re 50% better than the average pitcher.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kershcl01.shtml

Example: Kershaw 2009 season was rated 143 before the change, now he’s at 129.

by Tripon on Mar 24, 2010 4:38 PM PDT reply actions  

Cool

they implemented Tango’s recommendations?

by Eric Stephen on Mar 24, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Does that mean all my borderline 100's

are now underwater:)

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Mar 24, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you came in after the changes, because I don’t remember seeing negative ERA+ before (although I could be wrong)

by Eric Stephen on Mar 24, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Highest single season ERA+ is now 166 (Tim Keefe and Pedro, 120 years apart)

by Eric Stephen on Mar 24, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maddux 1994-95 is still the greatest two year stretch of ALL-TIME.

by silverwidow on Mar 24, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not sure how many decimals to take this, but…

Maddux 94-95: 162 ERA+
Pedro 99-00: 162 ERA+

by Eric Stephen on Mar 24, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow

I mean, that’s a hugely significant change in the formula. It’s like they just lowered the mound or something.

by JonWeisman on Mar 24, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

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