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Good Golly Miss Molly

Recently I made fun of James McDonald and basically questioned his emotional ability to be a successful major league pitcher based on his breaking down last year in the last game he may ever start,  and his head in hand turn this past week when he blew himself off the major league roster. Only Canuck really stood up to my silly comments and that should not have happened. Next time I make some comments based on my flimsy psycho analysis I'd hope you'd all come down on me like a house afire.

Several days ago respected ESPN sports writer Molly Knight  was set to appear on ESPN Radio and I questioned why we'd care what she had to say about the Dodgers. I expect I came off as arrogant but I'm just not a fan of sports talk radio when it comes to baseball. Molly is a Dodger fan but she is not a beat writer, what could she know that we don't already know? Is that arrogant? Probably but it is what I believe.  Even beat writers like Tony Jackson don't seem to have any inside information as to what the Dodgers are up to these days so I didn't expect any information of note to come from this interview so I didn't bother to listen.  

Anyway after her appearance on the ESPN show, Molly showed up on Dodger Thoughts and engaged in a conversation with Jon and others. I was late to the party and did not read the comments until today. I feel strange writing this column because the conversation took place on another blog but Molly is part of the National Media and as such her opinion is being heard by the nation. I'm not a fan of those who think they can ascertain the mental ability of players to succeed or not based on first hand observations. 

Before I start breaking down my disagreements with what where I think Molly is off let me start off by saying that I totally agree that the mental side is every bit as important as the physical side.  Baseball is littered with guys with better talent who have been outplayed by those with lesser talent. I don't question mental toughness, I question those who think they can define who has it and who doesn't based on circumstantial evidence. I question that smart men cannot succeed in baseball. I question that their are only two types of baseball players. I question those who think they can tell what a man is going do based on body language and the look in their eyes.

Let us start off with this:

Kershaw is an extremely laid-back dude with a great ability to shake things off and not to overthink. He's fit in as one of the guys from day 1. He'll be fine. It's Billingsley I worry about. Physically he certainly has it. Emotionally, it's a struggle.

Chad and Broxton will always to have to fight this devil and it just isn't fair. Chad has already had to much success for comments like this to made without comment. Until not putting away the best hitting team in the NL during the NLCS in 2008 Chad was the best young pitcher the Dodgers have had in many a year and the numbers back it up. If his emotions were getting in his way to succeed, he has certainly done an excellent job of hiding it for most of his professional career.

I was just re-reading Moneyball and in some ways Bills reminds me of Billy Beane--all the talent in the world but couldn't pull it together completely because he put too much pressure on himself to be perfect and never had any fun. Obviously, Billingsley has had more big league success than Beane, but the parallels are there. He reminds me of Carlos Quentin in a way, too. Much too serious, too smart, to shake things off. Every baseball player go through slumps--it's how they react that counts.

Comparing a man with Billingsley's accomplishment to a piece of crap baseball player like Billy Beane, and then to go off and basically imply that smart baseball players are not able to shake their slumps because they think to much. Seriously, if TJ Simers or Bill Plaschke had made these comments we'd be all over them.

Billingsley is a pitcher with fantastic stuff, obviously. I don't know if I agree with the "he can't hack it when it matters" sentiment because it's not big games that seem to rattle him as much as getting out of trouble in every-day outings. As you guys know, he'll be sailing along and then the fifth inning rolls around and someone will make an error and/or he walks a guy on a close pitch and all of a sudden the wheels fall off the apple cart. And then after the game when he talks to reporters he looks like a man who just ran over his dog (eyes to the ground, slumped shoulders, cracking voice, etc.)

Comments like these seem to forget that Chad had no problem for 2 1/2 years of not having these problems. Now I'm sure Molly has interviewed many baseball players after games and is using that "small" sample size to cross check her opinion on whether a baseball players has what it takes to  hang tough when the tough days come. What I'd like is a more objective approach to this analysis. Do players who look like they ran over their dogs after a tough performance perform lower then those like Odalis Perez who seemed to care less?  I'm very much of the opinion that whatever a person shows on the outside is not indicative of what is going on the inside.

I also think she is off on the Billingsley wheels falling off analysis. I remember making something close to the same statement, and Jon or Eric doing some legwork to show while that was the popular opinion it wasn't really the case.

I guess what I mean is the majority of superstar ballplayers--excludi ng Chase Utley, and, um, Sandy Koufax--are either pretty laid back or pretty, err, simple-minded. I know there are examples that prove this generalization wrong, but it's a common thread I see firsthand.

As far as elite pitchers go, Tim Lincecum is one of the biggest free spirits in baseball, and a total goof. Zack Greinke had his nerves treated with extensive therapy and medication, and it's obviously paid off. Cliff Lee admitted in an interview that he'd never read a book in his life. Danny Haren is a mellow fellow who smiles a lot. Um. CC Sabathia smiles a lot, too. And hugs people.

Kershaw's personality fits much easier into this lot than Billingsley's. He's just got an...ease about him that reminds me of Lincecum. Neither one of them walk around like they've got the weight of the franchise on their shoulders--which I think works to their advantage.

Does it mean anything? Maybe not. Just an observation.

Once upon a time I heard this same bullshit, it was 1984 and Greg Brock had replace Steve Garvey. Brock was easy going, didn't seem to take the game seriously. Mike Marshal was a man with prodigious physical talent but was tightly wound. There was a lot of debate which one had the better personality to succeed in major league baseball. I've read this stuff for 40 years and I think it is all crap. Some guys who read are great some who don't are great. This is just a huge stereotype.  Do you think Ted Williams was easy going, Frank Robinson, Randy Johnson? Baseball has had room for every personality type and will continue to do so. I don't think Molly's first hand observations would pass the smell test.

Even before his mid-season meltdown last year he always seemed to have an inning (usually the 5th) where if he got into the slightest bit of hot water it turned into a tsunami.

Every young pitcher clearly has to learn to pitch himself out of jams, so his plight is not uncommon. But his body language is not good. I've seen Kershaw after losses and while he doesn't look like he wants to throw a kegger, he also doesn't look like he's going to cry.

Billingsley is completely gutted after he gets shelled--not defiantly so, like, "I sucked. I'll go out there and get 'em next time." But, like, crushed. He hangs his head. His voice squeaks. He looks like someone shot his dog. He doesn't seem to have the ability to let things go.

I still think he's a great pitcher, and I'm not as down on him as a lot of people here. But it seems like he just stopped having fun at some point. Of course, he can be a baseball mercenary like Jeff Kent--not really enjoying the game and hating being away from his family but playing it as a way to make money because he's freakishly good at it. I just wish he'd loosen up a bit. 

I'm going to have to call out Molly on this. She is not a Dodger beat writer, she writes for ESPN. Just exactly how many times has she seen Chad Billingsley after he has lost a game? I'm betting it is less then three times and I'll bet that most of that observation came after the NLCS loss when she was covering the series.  I expect Chad probably did want to cry after letting his team down in the most important game he'd ever pitched upto that point in his life. Maybe I'm wrong here and Molly has been in the Dodger clubhouse numerous times after a Billingsley loss but  I doubt it.

Is Chad Billingsley a head case? We here at TBLA don't think so, maybe we are blind to his emotional state but we like to look at his results. For most of his career he's been great, for one game in 2008 he was bad. For the 2nd half of 2009 he was bad. I've got two big problems with the biggest critics of Billingsley's emotional state.

1. He can't pitch in pressure games and always point to the 2008 NLCS while totally ignoring the fact he shut down the potent Cub offense in game two in Chicago to help the Dodgers even get to the NLCS. I mean come on, how frickin big a game was that 2nd game in Chicago. 

2. That he has not been able to shake what happened in Philly and that is why he had a bad 2009 while ignoring the fact he was one of the best NL starting pitchers in the first half. If he was scarred by the NLCS he sure did a fine job of ignoring the emotional beast that was eating his heart out for the first 19 games he started.

Chad broke his leg, his off season conditioning was put on hold, he was not able to go long into games in the 2nd half. Seems like a conditioning problem more then an emotional one to me but you can 't win this battle. If Chad does well this year the same people who questioned his emotional ability will simply say he's matured. 

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Don’t have a dog in this fight.

by Tripon on Mar 26, 2010 9:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Did they call Burt Hooten “Happy” because he was always smiling?

by 68elcamino427 on Mar 26, 2010 10:01 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL seriously I know right.

by LAD17 on Mar 26, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

The article that Phil has written here brought to mind the article that Ken Tremendous wrote about a Jon Weisman SI article a few years ago at FJM. I am not going to go read the thread in question at DodgerThoughts, but does Molly ever insinuate she has more expertise than the average Dodger fan who would comment on a blog? In my opinion just because Molly gets a paycheck from ESPN she should not be excluded from voicing her opinion as a fan of the Dodgers.

All that being said I disagree with Molly’s opinion on Bills and am expecting him to have a great year and not looking like his dog died.

by ibleedbloo on Mar 26, 2010 10:23 PM PDT reply actions  

i think bills just isnt very comfortable talking in general

dodger fans know chad is consistently one of the most uncomfortable interviews to watch as he isnt the most articulate athlete in the locker room. so he sticks to cliches and seems relatively uncomfortable every time. this is rather presumptive on my part, but when i hear bills talk, i think “classic dumb jock (Nuke LaLoosh)” based on his syntax and overuse of cliche. i mean that in the nicest way possible, as i couldnt care less what he got on his SATs. dude can deal, and i want him on the mound every fifth game. i guess im saying that i think molly is mistaking his simple and quiet interview style as him seething about some deeper frustrations. as i recall hes the same simple quiet chad after a dominant performance…

by mcdisease on Mar 26, 2010 10:44 PM PDT reply actions  

He seems like a really humble guy who might not know how to deal with fame like some others can easily do. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it just makes him look awkward when talking to the media, and his thoughts don’t really come out fluently.

by Ivdown on Mar 27, 2010 2:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's the exact thing...

He never looks comfortable, he doesn’t like it. It’s just the way he is. He acts the same if he wins or loses.

I always feel like a douche when I whore my site on somebody elses site, but my god. He looked depressed as shit after he won the NLCS game against the Cubs.

http://www.memoriesofkevinmalone.com/2009/09/chad-billingsley-case-of-confirmation.html

by Chad Moriyama on Mar 27, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ahem…new here…don’t mean to get started off on a bad foot, but I kind of feel like the crux of what Molly was saying was (in her own words):

“Not saying he can’t shake things off, just that it’s tougher for someone who is so hard on himself to move on.”

I take that to mean Billingsley might have an additional obstacle to overcome that a more carefree player of similar talent would not, and that perhaps her confidence in his ability to put it all together is wavering. She never said he can’t handle high pressure games. She never implied Chad is a “90-pound mental weakling,” as Jon insinuated. In fact, this all started as a comment about how Chad might react to Padilla getting the opening day nod over Billingsley. There may be valid arguments against Molly’s opinion, but I feel like what she said is being conflated with stuff Plaschke or whomever has written in the past.

by mochemin on Mar 26, 2010 10:48 PM PDT reply actions  

All opinions are welcome

or at least most of them. My point about Plashcke was that if Plashcke had made comments like this, they would have been jumped on, but we like Molly because she’s a real Dodger fan and a fun writer, not a stuck in the mud second rate writer like Plashke who only covers the team because he has to.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Mar 26, 2010 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can see that

I just wonder if its possible to articulate doubts about Chad’s mettle without being lumped in with Plaschke. I too have wavering confidence in Chad yet there aren’t many pitchers I’d rather have and it makes me root for him harder. I want to be proved wrong – part of being a fan I guess, at least for me.

by mochemin on Mar 26, 2010 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, its not

Unles you like, actually know Chad. Otherwise, how on earth are you going to comment on his mettle as you watch him through your television set.? I’m not smart enough to watch people I’ve never met and tell what they are thinking.

by Michael White on Mar 27, 2010 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Probably too late to comment now but

is it any different than when people speculate that Billingsley was injured or that it was lack of conditioning because of the broken leg? The bottom line is that no one really knows what happened to Billingsley in the second half. If we all limit our comments and opinions as fans to our specific credentials then, well, talking baseball will get very dull and/or eclectically esoteric.

by mochemin on Mar 27, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's how it goes...

…if you show no emotion and you are successful, then you are given nicknames like “ice man” or whatever. If you show no emotion and you suck, then they say “the pressure got to him”.

If you show tons of emotion and are successful, then you are “a great competition with the will to win”. If you show emotion and you suck, then “you are unstable and unreliable”.

by Chad Moriyama on Mar 27, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

sorry I didn't see this whole post a few days ago, as it has LOTS of fun stuff to address

don’t know if anyone will ever read this, but what the heck- I’ll comment anyway:

1) Your point about Plashcke is spot on. I think that’s true in life, where there are those guys that you love to hate, like, you’re LOOKING for them to say or do something to validate your contempt. (“Ooooo- did you see what he wrote about us not having an ace?!” or “You really hit that ball far, Pierre. Way out to deep 3rd base.”) Plashke has, apparently, irritated people around here so long, that ANY opinion, however benign it may be, will be roasted if it isn’t agreeable, whereas someone like Molly may, to some extent, get the benefit of the doubt for the very same opinion. Just sort of goes to the core of how you feel about someone.

2) (more importantly) It AMAZES me how much of a lightning rod Billingsley is. The issue starts with whether you believe in “clutch”, or in looking at statistics as a whole. But with Bills, it’s gone so far beyond that, I think that anyone who just stumbled upon the argument, without knowing the topic, would be SHOCKED that this was all about one single major league pitcher. You have one side convinced that he is a delicate flower…and I’m not even sure WHICH side that is anymore! Yeah, the haters/critics will say he has no heart, doesn’t pitch inside, is mentally weak, etc. etc., but it’s the side that defends him that counterpunches with such force, it gets intimidating to even express your OPINION about the guy! It seems to me that what Molly said is very anecdotal, but harmless. She’s observed some things about the guy that may or may not be true. Even guys who are more on the “stats” side, like Josh Suchon and Keith Law- KEITH LAW!- have wondered about Billingsley’s makeup.

Anyway, in the event that someone DOES read this, I hope I haven’t started another firestorm, but if so, I can live with it. I personally like Billingsley, defended him with all the trade talk last year (and will probably do so again this year if necessary, but hopefully won’t have to), but I have the same kind of questions that a lot of these people do. It doesn’t surprise me that people have opposing views, but it’s the LEVEL of intensity that is fascinating. I’d expect it to be reserved for a topic like the McCourts, not a starting pitcher.

Then again, I’m the guy who used to defend Juan Pierre, so what do I know…

by sarcastro9 on Mar 29, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I want to say something about how Billingsley “Looks”. I’ve seen Chad pitch somewhere around 90% of his games. At the major league level. For some reason T.V. producers really like to zoom in on the face of pitchers when they are in a jam. To me (and this is an opinion) he always looks calm and collected. Maybe the fact that he sweats like crazy. Makes some people think he’s nervous. I don’t know. As far as how he looks after the game. In interviews I’ve seen (never been in a MLB locker room) he always seems quite, and he doesn’t really look at the camera or the reporters. Win or Lose. Yes he seems a little upset after a loss, and he has a little smile after a win. He seems very in control of his emotions. But he might be a little shy. I was the singer of a band for about 10 years. And I’ve been called shy before. But when I was on stage with my band mates doing what I loved, being in front of hundreds of people didn’t bother me a bit. In fact it got easier, the more people that were there. However after the show and individuals would come up and talk to me. Sometimes I would get a little nervous and quiet. I imagine I could be similar for him. On the mound in front of 50,000 fans, and his team mates behind him he’s comfortable. With ten reporters asking him why he sucked. Not so much. I don’t know Chad. I’m not saying I know his mental make up. It takes a lot to get where he is though, and I don’t think he could do that if he were weak.

by CTBMikeD on Mar 26, 2010 10:50 PM PDT reply actions  

I’m just going to say, I disagree most of Molly’s opinion, and the fact that she say about how Chad looks like a person about to cry and demoralized, unless Chad looks like he is about to end his life because he pitched horribly, it would be more glad to see him thinking deeply and become concerned instead of just sitting around like nothing happened. Like many other people have already mentioned, even when Chad pitched dominant game, did he smile like C.C or Tim Lincecum? Yet he still pitched dominant game didn’t he? Molly is completely disregarding the fact that everyone is different and have their own style. Also just because Chad pitched kinda bad one season out of last three, writing article like this? Like seriously, Molly, do you know how Cliff Lee pitched three years ago? You seriously think Cliff still smiled like he does and was laid back as he is right now? This article to me is just pathetic.

by LAD17 on Mar 26, 2010 10:56 PM PDT reply actions  

Wasn’t an article. She made a throwaway comment at Dodger Thoughts re: opening day and was asked for clarification.

by mochemin on Mar 26, 2010 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

These were just comments

not an article. I hoped I’d made that clear. She was simply voicing her opinion on a blog so there is nothing pathetic about it.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Mar 26, 2010 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

And 2009 wasn’t even a bad season in the slightest, it was still above average by a fairly good margin, it just looked a lot worse as time went on in the season.

But I’m with you, I want someone that isn’t a robot out there. I’d much rather have someone who is passionate about winning for his team than someone who looks like they could be pitching an MLB game or doing their taxes.

by Ivdown on Mar 27, 2010 2:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Too much is being made of this

I think in your original comment you said something about her wearing a skirt which is the only thing that was objectionable. Tony Jackson or any number of national writers make any number of seemingly ill-informed comments all the time.

by LA Taco on Mar 26, 2010 11:17 PM PDT reply actions  

I’m not saying I agree or disagree, but I wouldn’t hesitate to say she gets listened to more or gets stood up for more purely for the fact that she is a woman, and maybe even makes her more well liked.

By what I’ve seen Erin Andrews is very good at her job, but if she was an ok looking dude would so many people care about her? Lol.

by Ivdown on Mar 27, 2010 2:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

And we blast them mercilessly

I think its fair game to question whether people are pulling their punches here and why? Because personally, I see no difference between these comments and the articles by Plaschke that we all have a good time tearing apart.

by Michael White on Mar 27, 2010 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

We pull our punches because we have preconceived notions about certain writers. When you read certain people enough, you respect their opinions and you give them a lot more thought before weighing in with an opposing opinion. If Eric, Phil, Mike, Jon Weisman, Molly Knight, Chad/kensai, et al., put something up in writing, and my initial reaction is to disagree with it, I’m am going to think a lot longer about it, ponder the issue, and question my own opinion before I put up a response, because I respect those people and their opinions and I definitely want to think long and hard about whether or not it is I that is wrong. Some other writer have eliminated the benefit of the doubt, however.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Mar 27, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry – you don’t complete me.

The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.

by David Young on Mar 27, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was also reading through that thread and got a little upset at it. There is no bigger Chad fan than myself, and I will back him to the end. Phil is writing and articulating what I was thinking, and I am glad to see it.

by delias man on Mar 26, 2010 11:20 PM PDT reply actions  

I’ll agree that the skirt comment was probably inappropriate, but I think Phil has put together a fairly well reasoned rebuttal to the comments that were made. The simple fact is, skirt or no skirt, ESPN writers and personalities are not putting out intelligent analysis and haven’t been for some time. I became a fan of the online sports community because it seems to be the only area where the stupid ideas being put out by ESPN are being challenged. I like it when the Phils, Erics, Davids, and Mikes in the world take those that aren’t willing to put in the leg or brain work to put out quality material to task.

by prosellis on Mar 26, 2010 11:50 PM PDT reply actions  

Is it just me

Or did Chad go from virtual unknown, to All-Star, to utter failure. In about a month. Which is odd, because I swear if I was going to create a pitcher on a computer he would look almost exactly like Billz(- face, because it doesn’t matter)…. Did that sound wierd? I’m going to bed.

by CTBMikeD on Mar 27, 2010 3:04 AM PDT reply actions  

whore

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Mar 27, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

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