Dodgers Give One Away, Lose To Yankees 8-6
by Eric Stephen on Jun 27, 2010 9:29 PM PDT
in Dodgers Game Recaps
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I am still trying to figure out how the Dodgers lost this game. Once up 5-0, and leading 6-2 entering the ninth, the Dodgers appeared poised to win the series against the Yankees. Only it was not to be, as the Yankees rallied to tie, then win in the 10th inning, 8-6 over the shocked crowd at Dodger Stadium.
Jonathan Broxton entered the ninth inning tonight up 6-2, in another non-save situation, his fourth game in five days. Here are the win expectancies at the moment Broxton entered each of his last three games:
However, this time the 1.2% came through. A tired and ineffective Broxton allowed four runs to tie the game, and was allowed to throw 48 pitches by Torre, although if you want to discount his one intentional walk, I suppose he threw 44.
Perhaps Broxton should have been removed after it was clear he was scuffling tonight, but the problem is there was nobody else left in the bullpen that Torre trusts right now. Ronald Belisario already pitched the eighth, and Hong-Chih Kuo got five outs yesterday, so the other options were Ramon Troncoso and George Sherrill, who have been terrible most of this season.
Torre did eventually use both Troncoso and Sherrill in the 10th inning, and the Yankees scored off them, too. Troncoso allowed a base hit and was pulled with one out in favor of Sherrill to fave the left-handed hitting Robinson Cano. Cano, who was hitless in 11 at-bats against Sherrill, deposited a ball over the left field wall for the winning margin.
Broxton's last save opportunity was June 9.
Clayton Kershaw allowed just two runs in his seven innings, both runs coming on a sixth-inning home run by Alex Rodriguez, his second long ball of the series. Kershaw allowed just four hits, but more importantly didn't walk a batter for the first time in his career. He struck out five Yankees, but also induced three infield popups.
Matt Kemp didn't start today, just the second game he hasn't started all season, and Reed Johnson filled in more than ably. Johnson led off both the third and fourth innings with a double, and on the night collected three hits in five at-bats. Johnson's first double, in the third inning, set off quite a chain of events for the Dodgers. Three consecutive batters bunted, and all reached base. A Rafael Furcal bunt single was sandwiched by sacrifices by Clayton Kershaw and Ronnie Belliard, both of which were aided by throwing miscues by Andy Pettitte, one of third base and one to first base.
Belliard added a home run in the fourth to push the Dodgers to a five-run lead at the time. Rafael Furcal had two hits and two walks.
The Dodgers head to San Francisco to start a series with the Giants tomorrow night. Chad Billingsley returns from the disabled list to face Barry Zito in the opener.
WP - Mariano Rivera (2-1): 2 IP, 1 hit
LP - Ramon Troncoso (1-2): 1/3 IP, 1 hit, 1 run
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From the last thread...
Who are we going to use tomorrow out of the bullpen aside from Kuo? I don’t remember who is going to be dfa when bills is called up (Miller, Link?) Weaver?
Link is likely to be optioned, although perhaps Sherrill goes on the DL (who knows?)
Kuo will be available. As will Miller, and Weaver.
by Eric Stephen on Jun 27, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Tron only faced one batter. Beli will be available. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised with a Sherrill DL which activates CB. That means Miller and Link are available too.
by Michael White on Jun 27, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Kuo and Weaer will pitch the important innings. If Bills doesnt go deep, its up to Miller.
by UCLADodger32 on Jun 27, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions
We did everything right to win the game
And still lost it… Unreal
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
Hahaha
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions
At this point, aren’t we only talking about just one pitch? The strike 3 (called ball 1) to Curtis? I realize it was a crucial point, but it seems pointless to blame the umps.
by Eric Stephen on Jun 27, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah that could have been out number 2
with a 6-5 lead
with only 1 out remaining…
plus why were so many dodgers upset with the umps today
Well
both GA and Martin were tossed on actual strikes. I realize they were probably partially mad that Broxton didn’t get the same call, but at some point you have to suck it up and not act like the petulant children that were the 1985 Cards.
by Eric Stephen on Jun 27, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
mister eric
im jus sayin that had the ump made the right call… the game might have been much different..
This lack of poise just doesn’t look professional.
Doesn’t look like what winners do
Looks like what whiners do
Jus Say’in
by 68elcamino427 on Jun 27, 2010 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
We have nothing on the tigers from their game yesterday. Broxton didnt get that strike 3 call, but its known that umpires really shrink their zone 0-2. Its poor umpiring, but it is what it is. i think the tossings were just frustration.
by UCLADodger32 on Jun 27, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
That was just absurd. The umpire admitted it afterwards, but theres no excuse from a veteran home plate umpire to blow that call. I just want me some robots.
by UCLADodger32 on Jun 27, 2010 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions
If the Umpires were forced to use the plate as the strike zone there would be no problems.. Some of these guys will give 3-5 inches on the corners.
Overall, i just think its a really hard job, and with the technology we have, it makes all umpires look pretty crummy behind the plate. All i ask for in an umpire is consistency, and thats been rare this year as well.
by UCLADodger32 on Jun 27, 2010 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
i see why he missed it tho
that pitch was right down the middle for the first 30 feet… but the pitcher had soooooooooooooo much tailing action on his fastball…. crazy ass movement… it moved way off the plate by the 60th feet..
He did the Frank Drebin early strike call :)
by Eric Stephen on Jun 27, 2010 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Just saying its been proven through studies that 0-2 counts have the smallest strike zones and 3-0 counts have the biggest strike zones (like 50% bigger than an 0-2 count). Yesterday was just an umpire screwing up on a 3-2 pitch.
by UCLADodger32 on Jun 27, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't forget about the bad strikes Kemp and Loney got on Friday night..
To end the game.
Not that it probably would have mattered in Kemp’s case :/
All of those pitchers were strikes, in the strike zone though.
It again came down to the Dodgers not getting the same call earlier
by Eric Stephen on Jun 27, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Clayton Kershaw was very good sans the HR to Aroid.
No walks 3 sac bunts. Another great start wasted.
From MSTI
Heh:
If there’s any takeaway from this, it’s this: Broxton has thrown 95 pitches since June 23rd. By comparison, the Dodger starting rotation since then has these counts: Kershaw 101 (tonight 6/27), Kuroda 110 (6/26), Padilla 111 (6/25), Haeger 102 (6/24), Ely 97 (6/23). Because apparently, Broxton is a starting pitcher now.
You’re right. So how ’bout this one:
95 pitches, and zero high-leverage appearances?
People don't think it be like this, but it do.
The appearance certainly became high leverage tonight
by Michael White on Jun 27, 2010 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
And, as you wrote above, his last 3 outings were in extremely low leverage situations. Its just a waste of bullets.
by UCLADodger32 on Jun 27, 2010 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Again I must say thank goodness there's no off day
This time tomorrow we’ll be focused on the Giants and the Dodgers and we won’t give a crap about this Yankees game.
Couldn't they DL Sherrill for his "injury"?
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
send him drinking with Padilla
he will take care of it with a shot to the thigh
by MammothDodger on Jun 27, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly
It we had been told going into the series that we would take 1/3 from the Yankees, I would have excepted that. But after the way Kershaw pitched and the offense came through, albeit with help from the Yankee defense, I just got it into my head that we would win a series with the Yankees, the best team in baseball (!). It would have been a real boost for a team struggling of late. Maybe I’m just stating the obvious but this feels cathartic.
We would we accept 1 out of 3 beforehand?
by Eric Stephen on Jun 27, 2010 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I would understand 1 of 3. Like I understood the sweep from the Red Sox.
If you told me that Torre would use Broxton with large leads, I would probably say the bases were loaded or something and he didn’t want to allow the Yankees to score or something.
If you told me that Broxton threw 48 pitches in one inning, I would be wondering if the whole bullpen was used already.
Probably more frustrated than we are
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I think they did a 90-minute “Sunday Sports Final” from 3-4:30 instead.
by Eric Stephen on Jun 27, 2010 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Dodgertalk is starting now.
I’m so depressed, I can’t even get up enough energy to walk across the room and turn off the radio.
People don't think it be like this, but it do.
I would hate to be in such a situation :)
by Eric Stephen on Jun 27, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
This should be a night where they take no calls and just let Ken and josh talk.
by UCLADodger32 on Jun 27, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Jon
I wanted to say that I read Dodger Thoughts for the first time today. You do an excellent job. Thanks for your work.
I hope it's a bumpy flight back to New York you pin-striped bastards
Dodgers need to pop a sleeping pill and wake up in the bay area ready to kick some ass.
they will probably take their anger out on the giants, or at least I hope.
by draft dodger on Jun 27, 2010 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Am I the only one that is annoyed when you see this?
“Player X to 2nd base on fielder indifference.”
i hate that
i especially hate it when loney didnt do it in the bottom of the 10th…
i hate it when we dont hold posada.. a DP can end the game… but we let slow mo posado go to 2nd and no DP chance
On the bright side
Furcal is starting to burn… Which should wake our offense up…
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
You know, it almost made more sense to have Kershaw throw 130 pitches tonight and have a complete game.
That’s how absurd the 9th was.
i was surprised when he was pulled after 7 and 100 pitches after an easy 7th. Thought he would go 8 unless he got in trouble in the 8th.
by UCLADodger32 on Jun 27, 2010 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I do not understand the Broxton use for the last 2 days
Torre must be more of a pro then the , “I want to beat the Yankees” crap that JoeM and Jmiller were spewing. Maybe trying to show Ned that we need a lot of help in the pen. Using up your closer in 98%+ win situations twice in 2 days is asinine, and there really is know excuse
Torre has always been known to not be a great bullpen manager
plus you know, Troncoso, Wade, Proctor.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
But he usually doesn’t abuse his closer and 8th inning people. That’s what so unusual with how he used Broxton.
He has no one else left to abuse
He abused kuo when everyone knew he was an injury waiting to happen, he ran cory wade and troncoso into the ground, no there is no one left.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
he cant even try to do it with Sherrill
he is too bad to ran out there to begin with..
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions
He abused Kuo
Kuo has Kuo rules, Kuo pretty much pitches as though every appearance is his last. If there was one pitcher in the pen that he does not wear out, its Kuo.
by bhsportsguy on Jun 27, 2010 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions
He does now
He certainly wasn’t treated that way at the beginning of the year last year. It took the umpteenth million injury to him to get them to implement those rules near the end of last year.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Tomorrow would be a great day
For a complete game
People don't think it be like this, but it do.
Not from Bills in his first game back. Id be happy with a strong 6+
by UCLADodger32 on Jun 27, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
We haven't had one all year
What’s makes you think… Oh wait, it’s the Gnats
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
How about this
If our starters have the lead when they leave the game, don’t replace them but just replace them for Manny in LF. Then in the 9th if our relievers get in trouble just switch them back to pitching. Is that allowed? :)
This guy on Dodger Talk says he would rather see Tomko than Sherill
That’s a bad place for a mind to go.
You made us proud Lake Show! 2009 and 2010 BACK 2 BACK CHAMPS!
If Tomko were left handed he would be Sherrill?
by 68elcamino427 on Jun 27, 2010 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Sherrill is a left handed Tomko now, and cant throw as many innings.
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on Jun 27, 2010 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Josh Lindblom should be in the bullpen right now
Except, you know, they tried him as a starter and shattered his confidence…
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
Screw Torre
He has no idea how to manage a bullpen, and he acted like he’d rather be the Yanks manager all weekend. Hey Joe, the Yanks canned you because you’re overrated.
in hindsight does it appear Torre’s desire to beat the Yankees got the better of his better judgement?
by 68elcamino427 on Jun 27, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
to quote Billy Bob Thornton
it’s basically all the worst parts of the Bible
by Eric Stephen on Jun 27, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Back from the game
Torre is the real criminal here for all obvious reasons. I hate the KZone that Rivera gets that forces everybody to swing at everything. After seeing England(Who I hate) and this today, I am all for Robot umpires/refs at all pro sports.
Anyways…. I hate Interleague, I have been telling myself that the real season starts on Monday anyways so fuck the NL, let’s hope the Dodgers go attack, and let’s watch them run down SD.
What is funny is that I'm sure we
will have a save situation tomorrow night and/or Tuesday Night.
Broxton won’t be ready by Tuesday. Kuo closes tomorrow? I’m sure he will be forced to use Belisario in the next 2 games.
Someone posted on the Yankees blog that were were ~20,000 Yankees fans at the game tonight.
Please tell me he overestimated by a lot.
Well, 19,996 in the stands and four with MLB caps on the field. :)
/kidding
by Eric Stephen on Jun 27, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
He did
Dodger fans were just stunned quiet at that point
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
wouldnt be suprised
On the radio, it sounded like a game in NY not a game in LA in the 10th…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Do y'all think it's time to make a trade? Shake the team up?
Kemp maybe?
/ducks
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
you
are joking, right?
This is completely on Torre.
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes today was on Torre
What about the last two weeks though?
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Slumps?
Have you never seen a player slump? When you have two guys slump continuously, does that mean they suck?
Hell, a month ago TB was the world series favorite for most. They have had a bad month, do they now suck and should be blown up?
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
So I take it no is your answer?
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
any trade that we trade MLB players
Unless it is Sherrill, it is a big no. A trade with MiLB players depends… if they overpay because they freak out, then Id say no… lets put it this way, there is no way a guy like Withrow should be dealt for a reliever and there are only a couple starting pitchers that he should be in a deal for…
Also, sorry if Im being an ass. This game just really pissed me off…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
So was I… Believe me…
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not against a move, not Kemp.
I don’t know who. I cannot believe that Sherrill will really help again. Tron is struggling. We need to go get some middle relief help, now. I’d like to go see if we could get Evan Meek or Clippard. Not sure either would be available.
No, I'm not talking about a bullpen piece
I’m talking about a real difference maker… Starting pitcher perhaps…
/winks at Seattle
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Our starters are rounding into form
I’m not sure that we need another starter. Maybe Ely pitches well enough to be a solid #5. I know for a fact that Tron, Sherrill, and Link are not good. Not 100% on Link yet, but he isn’t going to pitch in a game that matters. We need help in the pen. I would love to get another front line starter, but Cliff Lee is going to be expensive and be here for 2 months and gone.
Id wait to judge Link
He was on a streak in the minors. We need another reliever, but better not trade a top prospect for one… what about Lindblom come up?
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel ya on Link
but when is he going to pitch? Never. He is going back down. Just up because we needed another body. I don’t agree with having guys on the team that the manager will not use.
He would be a guy to use today
Honestly, sounds like we are throwing him into the fire, but if he wont trust anyone else, why not let the kid try?
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Because he's Joe Torre
And he loves him some veterans… And gamers…
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I love Torre
because Im from NY, but he really fucked this up. It wasnt vets, it was not willing to take out Broxton(even though Kemp should have hit for a ‘vet’ in the 10th)
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
No
I was referring to the fact that he’s completely unwilling to use anyone other than Belisario, Kuo and Broxton except in an emergency… And Broxton is a vet now, if you think about it… Just a young vet…
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I still think of all the homegrown guys as kids
But Ill think that for another couple years.
And yea, his pen use is horrible
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Scott Proctor called, Joe
He wants his arm back
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Thats not what I'm saying
I agree that we should try him. But if JT and RH don’t want to use them, call up someone else.
yea, I know what you were saying
I was thinking out loud :)
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Who is this Cliff Lee you're talking about?
I was referring to Eric Bedard… LOL
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
What the hell happened to Bedard?
He was awesome in Baltimore… I thought going to a pitcher’s park would help him more… Apparently not…
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
injuries
i think shoulder surgery
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
PLEASE!?!?
let Lindblom come up lol
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Lindblom needs his confidence back up
Thanks Dodgers, for trying to turn him into a starter
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
he has come back to relief and done well so far
he could be in the majors soon, IMO, and will have a big role, especially if we cant get a reliever..
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Adkins too
He hasn’t been so hot so far in Albuquerque, but he’ll adjust
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
no thanks
we already have a 87 mph lefty in the pen in sherrill … we dont need a 86 mph one
by matthewmafa on Jun 27, 2010 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
well
if Adkins can pitch with his stuff, ok. But Sherrill is just lost
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe we can call Scott Proctor
Oh wait, he can’t pick up the phone?
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok, this is completely on Torre
He did two things right, and proceeded to fuck up both of these as well. He gave Kemp the day off. The correct thing to do. However, why the fuck did he not pinch hit for Anderson? Or Johnson? YOU ARE DOWN TWO IN THE 10TH AND THE TYING RUN IS AT THE PLATE. You know that Kemp has to come in if you tie the game because Anderson is out(also bullshit), but you let Reed Johnson hit!?!?! Ugh. Let Kemp hit, move Casey to LF and DeWitt to 3B. The point is to get to the 11th and then worry about the defense.
2nd, he took out Kershaw. May not of been liked, but he had given up his first 4 flyballs in the game and was tiring. Over 100 pitches, and the pen should have been able to hold it.
Ok, the bad. How do you throw Broxton into that game? He had thrown 19 pitches yesterday. Then he throws almost 50 pitches!? He isnt going to be ready till we are out of SF. Let Kuo pitch. Broxton didnt have it.
Torre fuckin over-managed this game.
Now, Im not going to lie, Im a Yankee fan. I was born into a Yankee family and love the team. Im a huge Jeter and Mo fan, but HATE how this team is built. They have bought everything. I wish we could have beat him, and I think a manager who wasnt trying to get revenge against his old team would have won this game and series.
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:09 PM PDT reply actions
Then you would not have liked them at any point of their history
Because even in their hey day, this was a team that used every financial advantage and Reserve clause rule for their own purposes. And why not, they have the resources and there is no salary cap to hold them back.
by bhsportsguy on Jun 27, 2010 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions
To an extent
I disagree. When they had their run in the 90s, they were based off 4 guys… Jeter, Mo, Posada, Pettitte. 4 homegrown guys. 4 possible HoF(3 are locks). They still paid for what they had, but they only won because of the homegrown guys.
Then, they went nuts. They gave Giambi 100M, etc, and they sucked for 8 years(well, not sucked, but didnt win another title.) Then they decide to go all out and spend $1/2B on 3 guys, not including Arod. I hate how this team is built. HATE IT. If it didnt have the Yankee name, I would spit in them. I still love Jeter, Mo, Posada, Pettitte, but I hate how this team is made
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Paul O'Neil, David Cone, David Wells, Wetteland,
Daryl, Boggs, and those other guys didn’t help.
Yes, Jeter and Williams and Posada, Rivera and Pettite all were big parts but this team won because of pairing them up with those other veterans.
It is nice to think that homegrown talent wins but generally, it takes a mix. The 2002 Angels and the 2008 Phillies are notable exceptions.
There is nothing wrong with that and it is the way that most winning times are put together.
by bhsportsguy on Jun 27, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
That is why I said to an extent
Very few teams can win without any FA help. But what I was saying is that without even one of those 4 guys, they dont win any WS title’s, let alone 3, IMO
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Well sure they don't win
But to say you don’t like how the current is built, you still have Hughes, Cano, some of your OF and other bullpen and pitchers.
Yes Teixiera, CC, Burnett, (and really though I know he came up with the team but he left and came back, Pettite) as free agents, A-Rod as a big money re-signee on the team, I think there is enough home grown guys at the fringes to make it somewhat similar to how most teams are built.
Sure, they have not had the success in bringing a crew like the Jeter group in the mid-90s, but then how many teams have that kind of success.
This current group of Dodgers as a group are probably the most successful since the 70s teams. 25-30 years is a long time to go between really successful development but it is not unexpected.
by bhsportsguy on Jun 27, 2010 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course they have guys who are homegrown
But with their dynasty, they didnt have this kind of non-homegrown, impact talent. To have CC, Tex, Arod, Burnett, etc all not being homegrown… I just dont like how they have gone from the days of relying on the young kids.. like the Dodgers are trying to do now. If we had a real owner, this current team has the young talent to be a dynasty
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Im talking dynasty
basically 96-2000. I was 3 when it started, 7 when it ended. I watched the games, but didnt understand everything about it. I learned a lot as I got older by via family, and also reading Joe’s book.
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Doubtful
because these guys have not shown that they are that good yet. Teams don’t win with young talent.
You are a Laker fan, are they the team with the best young talent in the league. The NBA is much more setup to create a dynasty since they have the Bird rules that give you the right to offer more money to your own players.
But why is it, the same teams that finish high in the draft, never seem to put it all together, while other teams seem to continue to be successful.
by bhsportsguy on Jun 27, 2010 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I wasnt saying I think the Dodgers can do it right now
because, well, they dont have the resources to support their kids. However, they have enough talent with the kids to make one, but not the resources.
I think the NBA is completely different. They really dont have a minor leagues, and it is basically how can you best use the salary cap…
I know why people hate the Lakers… they are similar to the Yankees. However, their best player, Kobe, is homegrown, where you could easily say that the Yankees best player is one of CC, Tex or Arod, and that a home grown guy, Jeter or Mo, isnt at the list until 5th or 6th… When your top 4 is all bought, I start to have a huge problem
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea, I do
He has been one of the best offensive catchers in baseball during his whole career, and one of the best in a long time. 4 WS titles, playing and lasting this long in NY helps, I think he is a lock. May even be 1st ballot
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Posada has one thing over his contemporary
Ivan Rodriguez, 4 titles vs. 1 title. But I-Rod is definitely considered a better defensive catcher, he won an MVP award and has been to many more All-Star games than Posada.
Posada may get in because he was a part of a great team and he was a very good player but I don’t think he will get in on the first ballot because unlike Jeter or Rivera, he was never considered the best catcher in the league for any significant amount of time.
by bhsportsguy on Jun 27, 2010 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions
fair enough
I think that he could slip in because he played in NY and was part of a dynasty, and possibly two. It depends on what happens to end his career, and who is voting for him. You know as much as I do, there is an east coast bias, in baseball, especially NY…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
You do realize that every one of those championship teams the yankees had the highest payroll in baseball, right?
Jeter is a beneficiary of circumstance. An overrated defender and a good hitter who has spent his entire career surrounded by all stars and hall of famers.
ok
so I could have had 2800+ hits in my career playing on the Yankees? Honestly, just stop. You are spewing bullshit because you are angry we lost
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 28, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
We need Brox rules
With Torre’s history of burning out arms, please , someone, sit him down.
Brox needs to be treated carefully. He means too much to this franchise.
Only in save situations and tie games at home in the ninth.
He can always get sidework in to stay fresh.
Sometimes you just gotta say, Brox is down. Player X is the closer. These three are viable options today.
There has to be a maximum number of days in a row Brox can be used.
We had both Tron and Sherill for a 4 run lead, and as, gulp, Jim Tracy would say, “sometimes you have to put him in a position to succeed.”
You start the ninth with Sherrill or Troncoso and sink or swim. Christ, if you freakout, you have a four-run lead to warm up Brox to get an out or two if necessary.
Screwball Torre obviously got caught up in the whole Yankee thing.
Even when Brox hit 30 pitches tonight, you could sense he didn’t have it and needed help
not rules
he just needs to use his brain. Broxton had thrown 19 pitches yesterday. He wasnt at 100% today. He came in throwing 93… he wasnt right. Get him out before he blows up, like he did…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Funny, no one ever calls up and pines for Andy LaRoche
who if he had been what he was supposed to be would not have prompted the Blake deal
I think you forgot to mention Blake DeWitt’s .472 OPS as the everyday 3B in June 2008 followed by his .552 OPS in July. Not quite fair to blame it all on LaRoche (a part time player by that point).
by silverwidow on Jun 27, 2010 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Its not fair to blame it on Dewitt at all
I mean the guy was thrown out there because we had no other options.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
We screwed up tonight (well, Joe did)
But I’m still confident… We have the whole NL to feast on now that the interleague BS is over…
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
yea, we have the NL to kill
but this game wouldve been huge
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
When can Schlichting return from AAA?
Surely they can DL Sherrill. Or dump him. They DFA’d Loaiza – was that last year, or 2008? – who was earning something like $7 million at the time, no? Why not Sherrill, at $2 mil?
That was 08 I believe
He was making 7.5M that year, but Im not sure how much was left on the deal. Sherrill came in with a 4M salary, and should be DFA’d or traded for salary relief.. or for nothing. He needs to go
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Can we say he's the best positional prospect the Dodgers have?
I think so…
Sex addiction? Two words=get married.
by angelofdeath on Jun 27, 2010 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
right now, yes
I think Dee will still be ranked ahead though…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions
even though i like what sands is doing,
I still need more ABs in AA before I am fully hitching on board his wagon.
Check out Carlos Santana's #s...
.333/.450/.733 in 48ABs
4HRs
11 bbs
6 ks
The dude almost has as many homers as strikeouts and he’s a catcher.
I thought Juan Pierre was the worst NedCo move.
But if Santana becomes a consistent .300/.400/.500 player…This is quite possibly on par with Pedro for Delino.
I'll agree
Because if he does that, he’ll better than any catcher in the last 90 years, only Mickey Cochrane hit .300 and had an OBP over .400 and only Piazza hit over .300 and slugged over .500
And even in baseball history, going back for everyone who has played 1500 games or more, only HOFs and guys not eligible yet like Frank Thomas, Larry Walker, Manny Ramirez have hit .300//.400/.500 for their career.
by bhsportsguy on Jun 27, 2010 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sure Eric knows this and if it hasnt been covered yet...
But is 48 pitches in 1 inning for Broxton a career high?
I’d think it would have to be. I cant remember a pitcher ever throwing 48 in one inning…any Dodger pitcher.
wasnt he awful as a starter?
I seem to remember him coming up for a start or two in 2005 and really getting shelled. wrong guy?
Broxton never started a major league game.
He was a starter midway thru 2005 in the minors, but changed to relief in the minors has been that way ever since.
guess both Eephus and me are wrong
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions
huh i guess so
man 2005 was so fucked up that i have a hard time remembering anything. Shitty year in baseball and shitty year in my life.
Primarily because
he only has 2 quality pitches, his fastball and his slider.
by bhsportsguy on Jun 27, 2010 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions
exactly
even Purdue knew he was a fuckin closer…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice kid. Met him at ST
seemed mellow. It was cool because no one knew who the hell he was but I was super jazzed to meet him.
he probably wont pitch in SF now
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions
HE WONT NEED TO!!!
Because we gonna go ape shit big on the Giants! Am i right? anyone? hello?………hello?
I hope so...
but Im scared because w/o Broxton, we have a two man pen
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions
It is a career high. MSTI found a 44 pitch outing in 2006, too.
by Eric Stephen on Jun 27, 2010 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions
wasnt he a starter though?
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I know he came up as a starter
but dont remember when, was it 05?
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
but did he come up as a starter
as in, he didnt start the game, but came in for multiple innings, but got shelled too much before he got a start?
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Broxton did start some games in 2005 in the minors at AA...
But I think in June of that season he was converted to a reliever at the AA level before he was brought to the big leagues.
ok, thanks
05 almost drove me to stop watching so I dont remember much
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I believe July 4
And Tron goes on the DL… on July 4th ;)
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope
He never pitched more than 1 inning until he came up to stay in 2006
by bhsportsguy on Jun 27, 2010 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Broxton’s pitched in 341 games.
349.2 innings
He’s been a 1inning guy his whole career.
Be interested if is arm is tired after this last 5 days.
he wont pitch in SF
or shouldnt. His arm is dead right now, IMO
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions
93-96
but the 96 was only once and outside. The Yankees spit on the slider because the FB had OK velocity, but no movement. Orel said it best, saying his arm was tight and didnt have the natural spin when your wrist is lose. Was also squeezed by the ump a couple times
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I said it before
I love Torre because of his NY days, but Im fuckin sick of his of his lack of trust in his players sometimes, and his ‘decisions’.
Also, I wasnt watching the game on TV when it happened, but it sounded like GA shouldnt have been kicked out(via the radio). If it was that bad, should Torre have pushed the umps to get kicked out also, to show his point to his team?
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Torre
would have to go way out of his way to get kicked out.
by NotJoeTorre on Jun 27, 2010 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Torre was talking animatedly to the ump for awhile, I was surprised he didn’t get tossed. Then again, he probably gets more leeway than most managers.
yea
But I feel that if Torre gets tossed, it shows his team he hasnt given up
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
annnnnd once again its like the first part of the year
Bats are alive but pitching cant hold. Unlike then, the starters have been pretty damn good so far. Just the middle and end. Whats the pitching lineup for the SF series?
Billz, Ely, Kuroda or Padilla?
Its normal rotation
so Kuroda game 3
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions
oops, meant Padilla
forgot Kuroda pitched yesterday, not Fri
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions
good point
we get Cain, Sanchez and Zito?
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions
They have similar stuff
Broxton throws harder, but Kuo is a lefty. If Kuo could stay healthy, he’d be ahead. But the guarantee of a DL trip bring Ox up(also, the fragile arm means Kuo cant be a closer)
Kuo came up as a starter and had ace potential, but the arm couldnt handle it. A shame really..
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I've decided
that from now on, emotionally, I’m going to react to every extra innings game like a tie. So instead of seeing the end result, I see two teams, that for the duration of 9 innings, both did a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong.
The Yankees played some awful defense tonight and I’d say half those six runs were helped along by an error of some nature. Broxton never looked like he had his stuff tonight and the results show it.
The Dodgers showed they could produce runs without help from Andre, Manny and Kemp. Johnson stepped it up in a big way. There’s so much positive here, considering how things almost ended, that I know how a parent feels. I’m not mad, Dodgers, I’m just disappointed.
Look at that, he hit the f*cking bull! Guy gets a free steak!
The Dodgers usually blow at least 1 of these types of games every season (where they blow a big lead in the 9th).
It just so happens it was tonight.
If we can find this year's last year's George Sherill
and like dump Sherill in Vegas or something, then we can have a plan B in these situations
Look at that, he hit the f*cking bull! Guy gets a free steak!
by Josie Becker on Jun 27, 2010 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions
You are right
But the game was there! If we won, we could look at it like that. But we lost, so we have to focus on the negatives, because of how we lost..
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 27, 2010 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Which is why at the end of the ninth
I said aloud, This game ended in a tie, then walked out of Dodger Stadium ignoring all results til I sat down in front of my laptop just now
Look at that, he hit the f*cking bull! Guy gets a free steak!
by Josie Becker on Jun 27, 2010 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok
So I’m having the best day I’ve had in a while. I’m at Universal Studios for the first time and I’m having a great time. I check on the game from 5-7:30 and it’s coming up all roses for the Dodgers. Kershaw had one of the best games of his career (not a single walk!!!!), and there was just the one mistake pitch to Arod, and besides that he was freaking awesome.
There is some force in the universe trying to keep Kershaw from being recognized as an ace…you know, but idiots who judge aces by wins and losses, but it would still be nice for him to recognized as one anyway….
FUCKING BROXTON! FUCKING TORRE YOU GOD DAMN BULLPEN MANAGING-RETARDED PERSON, WHY THE FUCK DID YOU BRING IN BROXTON FOR MORE THAN 1 INNING YESTERDAY IN A 9-4 GAME THEN TONIGHT IN A 6-2 GAME?
YANKEES 8 TORRE/SHERRILL -6,835
/loud voice
Frustrating. I’m glad I did not did not watch the 9th inning on.
"You're the only woman to ever love me." "I never loved you." "I meant physically!"
I cant blame Broxton
this is all on Torre.
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 28, 2010 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Broxton is being overworked right now
But jesus, it was a 4 run lead with the best closer in baseball the last 2 seasons. He shouldn’t have blown it that badly.
That being said, Torre should have left in Belasario to try the 9th, then brought Broxton in if there was trouble, or brought Kuo in. The fact that Kuo was not in this game is RETARDED.
"You're the only woman to ever love me." "I never loved you." "I meant physically!"
Kuo had pitched back to back I believe
Beli couldve kept pitching. Broxton had thrown 19 pitches yesterday, and that usually means a day off. Instead he had to throw 48 pitches? After he pitched 3 of last 4 days? Thats all on Torre..
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 28, 2010 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions
It isn't all on Torre, though much of it is
Broxton should be able to pitch today after how much he pitched yesterday, just likely not 100 percent. Broxton SHOULD have been able to get 3 outs before giving up 4 freaking runs. Tonight’s loss is a combo of Torre, Broxton, and Sherrill.
I really feel for Kershaw.
"You're the only woman to ever love me." "I never loved you." "I meant physically!"
Broxton has thrown something like 98 pitches this week
Nearly as many as any of the starters on the team. He shouldnt have pitched. 3 times out of 4 games, given how many pitches he has thrown in the week, shouldnt have been in at all
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 28, 2010 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions
It doesn't matter if he should or shouldn't have pitched
He is good enough to get the job done regardless. Also, 48 of those were tonight, so before he sucked ass tonight he only had about half of those pitches before Torre foolishly brought him in.
"You're the only woman to ever love me." "I never loved you." "I meant physically!"
you said it yourself
foolishly. He shouldnt have been in. Belisario should have pitched the 9th or… Jon Link? He had been great in AAA for a while before a callup, why not let him establish himself? If he faulters, hope that he can get an out or two before he implodes, if he did, and then have Broxton back him up. To start Broxton knowing his workload, even before tonight, was bad management. Broxton came in throwing 93…. he wasnt healthy
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 28, 2010 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, it was idiotic, but come on, Broxton is a beast, he should be able to handle a 4 run lead even if he's been used quite a bit lately
Belasario should have started the 9th, no doubt. But Torre is a bullpen managing idiot so he wanted his best reliever in so he could get that series win against his former team. It pisses me off to no end how Torre has handled the BP, but Broxton should have been able to handle it.
"You're the only woman to ever love me." "I never loved you." "I meant physically!"
You can only say 'he's a beast' for so long
I cant blame him for Torre killing him and then throwing him out there. No reliever throws 50 pitches a week, let alone 100…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 28, 2010 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Best closer in baseball from 2009-2010
All the blame does not go on Torre, because Broxton should have been able to not allow 4 runs. Trust me, I’m pissed at Torre, but Broxton is not off the hook.
"You're the only woman to ever love me." "I never loved you." "I meant physically!"
I get what you are saying
but when a pitcher goes 1 inning an apperance(usually 15 pitches), 4-5 times a week max is made to go from 50 pitches(an ok number, even low) all the way to 98, there is a problem. Most starters cant go 48 straight pitches without losing something. No closer can. I dont care if it is the best pitcher you have ever seen, they cannot go 48 pitches straight. Remember that he isnt used to throwing that many. I have to put the blame on Torre well before Broxton, no matter what he usually does.
Unlike last year in SD with Broxton, where he wasnt tired, this time he was dead and thrown back in. A guy who is usually 99 starts at 93, with no movement. The Yankees spit on his slider because they knew the FB was nonexistent. He was forced to throw the FB that wasnt there, and was killed. Why wasnt it there? Torre’s workload
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 28, 2010 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Kuo has not pitched in back-to-back games since August 2008
by Eric Stephen on Jun 28, 2010 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry
that should be back-to-back days
by Eric Stephen on Jun 28, 2010 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Usually Broxton doesn't get this much work in such a short amount of time (from what I remember seeing, not backing that with any real evidence)
But look at how much he’s pitched recently.
I just have no earthly idea why the bullpen has been used how it has been the last 2 days.
"You're the only woman to ever love me." "I never loved you." "I meant physically!"
I completely agree about Broxton; just pointing out Kuo wasn’t an option
by Eric Stephen on Jun 28, 2010 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I see what you are saying
Kuo shouldn’t be someone that has a huge work load with his arm troubles. I’m just mad that we had to rely on Sherrill and Troncoso…these guys are nothing but awful as of the last 2 months.
"You're the only woman to ever love me." "I never loved you." "I meant physically!"
yes hes had a lot of surgery done on it, gotta be extra careful with him.
by draft dodger on Jun 28, 2010 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah i had a good day as well
Hung out at beach (norcal crappy beach but still a beach). killed at my softball game (4-4 with two doubles). Then see the game was still going in the 10th. All happy vibes drained away : (
Im not sure I can stomach the Giants series.
Fuck you ESPN. Kershaw throws a hell of a fucking game and the first highlight is the Arod homerun and the only shit you show after that is Broxton blowing the game in the 9th?
Fuck all the good stuff the Dodgers did. Wow, the only reason I watched ESPN tonight is because I thought maybe, JUST maybe they might mention Kershaw pitching well.
I guess that will teach me to do something so fucking stupid.
"You're the only woman to ever love me." "I never loved you." "I meant physically!"
I think I'm done being mad now
I just had to get it out.
I was just lucky enough to have 2 Yankee fans that I’m friends with text me during the 9th and 10th innings tonight…yeah…
"You're the only woman to ever love me." "I never loved you." "I meant physically!"
I was cheering for the Dodgers
but my whole family is Yankee fans… yeah…
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 28, 2010 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions
just got back from the game and a late dinner i still cant believe that the Dodgers gave this game up and all the Yankee fans at the game made me sick
by Dodgermanramon on Jun 28, 2010 12:25 AM PDT reply actions
Torre
it’s his fault Tran is horrible.
And Remember, Im the biggest Torre supporter on the site..
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 28, 2010 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions
lol. i've been sick of torre since a quarter through last season
his management of the bullpen is so weird… hopefully broxton doesn’t turn into scott proctor.
... we sittin here talking about practice. not a game, not a game.
question when the Yanks tied the game who was available to come in and pitch besides Troncoso and Sherrill where was Jeff Weaver ?
by Dodgermanramon on Jun 28, 2010 12:30 AM PDT reply actions
4 run lead
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
doesnt matter
for Torre. Link had only pitched a couple times in the majors the last time he was called up, and sucked. To Torre, it doesnt matter what he did in AAA, he sucked in the majors and needed to prove himself in non pressure situations. Torre is an idiot when dealing with the pen, period
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 28, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I think weaver would have handled it alright. Torre at some point needs to put trust in others in that bullpen before he blows Brox’s arm out.
by draft dodger on Jun 28, 2010 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions
if I were torre, I would have just left Troncoso in for the 10th and not put in Sherrill in to get Cano out. Its extra innings and you need to conserve your bullpen in case it becomes a long affair.
by draft dodger on Jun 28, 2010 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Holy shit. My lap top is fucked and my desk top is hooked up to my TV so can’t really join in in these games at the moment. Sucks. My feelings. FUCK. yeah that’
s about it. Damn this was a very entertaining series we should have won. It didn’t happen though. I really don’t blame anyone. But If I was going to it would be Torre. To me it it was just the God Damn Yankees getting hot for a second. Screw them. We proved we could beat them. It didn’t really happen in this series, but we proved we could beat them. Our Bullpen is scary though. after Belli, Kuo, and big B.
Well
most of the crowd probably left before the team blew it anyway.
Transactions
IMO, these transactions should be made within 24 hours:
Link optioned (done); Billingsley activated from DL
Troncoso to the DL; Jansen recalled
Sherrill DFA’d; Lindblom recalled
Jansen shouldnt be up yet
he has been pitching for a 1 1/2 years. He isnt called up till Sept
by lakersdodgersyankees4life on Jun 28, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
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