The Unofficial Trade Proposal Thread/Armchair GM Contest.
by underdog on Jul 21, 2010 9:53 AM PDT
214 comments
Let's have a bit of a contest. Propose a trade the Dodgers should do, including which players/prospects you'd give up, and then if you feel its necessary, alongside it, a trade you predict the Dodgers WILL do, if it doesn't match up with your suggestion. (i.e., "Chris Withrow for Carlos Zambrano and cash")
Try to be realistic, in what you give up to get, knowing that it is sometimes worse than that.
I'll start:
Scott Van Slyke and Nathan Eovaldi or Garret Gould for Paul Maholm.
5 recs |
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I think Van Slyke and Eovaldi/Gould for Maholm is a pretty reasonable deal. I would even be willing to throw in Monasterios.
Yah, indeed. Is Monk tradeable at this point? What's the rule on Rule 5s?
You can trade them I assume…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I will see if I can come up with a little ol' prize to give away to whoever
gets closest to the real trade that will inevitably happen.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Different competition lol. What I think we should do and what Ned will do are two diffferent things (and highly unpredictable due to the volatility of the Stupid element).
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
Well post both! Your wish trade and what you think Ned will do.
List both scenarios and see if either proves correct.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
And by wish trade I of course don't mean
Garrett Anderson for Roy Oswalt… ;-)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Should happen: Trayvon and Wallach for Scott Olson and maybe Sean Burnett.
Will happen: Sands, Eovaldi and Van Slyke for Maholm and Dotel
If Sands is thrown in that deal, in order to get Dotel, I will cry
But yes I can definitely see that happening. Sure you don’t want Kyle Russell, Pirates? He has power!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
It’s not exactly Sands to get Dotel, I don’t the the Pirates will give up their best pitcher for a guy with 6 K/9 in A ball.
Still would be a huge disaster though.
by regfairfield on Jul 21, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
If the Pirates asked for Sands though and the Dodgers smartly said no thanks,
who would be a logical compromise player then?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Um, I think his trade value is at
a lower level than his bongwater right now…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Webster is the closest thing I can think of, but I don’t know if they do that. The only guys we have that are succeeding above A ball are Sands, Jansen and Trayvon. We need Jansen this year and Trayvon has some major question marks. Without Sands, I don’t think the deal gets done.
by regfairfield on Jul 21, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Should Happen Scenario
Trade Ramirez to TB for P Andy Sonnanstine
Trade Kuroda to Minn for C Wilson Ramos and B pitching prospect
Trade Belliard to Cin for C prospect
Sign Ellijah Dukes and send him to AAA for two weeks and then bring him up to platoon with Paul.
Not bad
I’m going to work off of that a little.
by meercatjohn on Jul 21, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I like the first idea
The second idea they only do if they are officially giving up on this season imho (but I love Ramos)
I could see the 3rd idea happening with Cincy. I’m not a big fan of Dukes personally…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
We could always put Kuroda on waivers later
but if we are 6 or so games out of even the wc on the 31st, its probably time to give up.
Kuroda has a no-trade clause
and would almost certainly exercise it considering his family is in Los Angeles. Or so Alex41592 said when I brought up trading him yesterday.
I think Kuroda could part with his family
for the time period of 8/1/10 to 11/1/10 to play for a World Series contender.
by meercatjohn on Jul 21, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Why do you love Ramos
He must be amazing defensively because his bat really is overrated
by SeanMillerSavior on Jul 21, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I could see a case for calling him an overrated prospect
(and maybe I should’ve said really like more than love) but from what I’ve seen and read his bat is still legit. Last year he was injured a couple of times, too, so it took him awhile to get going but he still did well. And in the in the Venezuelan Winter League he hit 332/.397/.582 and drove in 49 runs. Even though he did struggle in AAA this year (wasn’t that his first year in AAA?) he was called up by Twins and went 4 for 5 in his ML debut. He’s only 22 so he can improve.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
My thought is not so much to be sellers but rather to reload with some prospects or younger players in positions of need. Sonnanstine could fill a rotation spot next season, Ramos could take over for Martin when we non-tender him in the offseason, and Dukes would get a chance to prove himself over the final couple of months. I don’t have any real affinity for Dukes other than he is young and still has talent but is marred by bad character traits.
Dukes is a criminal playing baseball. That is not going to change.
by meercatjohn on Jul 21, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
True but lets not pretend that we haven’t brought in head cases, cheaters, or bad attutude guys before. Either way, I think we need to find someone we can pair with Paul for next season. Johnson may be the guy but I am trying to think of someone with a bit more upside. What about Austin Kearns?
Bad head cases are different then criminals.
Guys like Johnson, Nady, Kearns all might be decent fits as a platoon partner.
by meercatjohn on Jul 21, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Does anyone think we should go after a LF?
Names that may be available:
Dunn
Dejesus
Werth (though that would be in a 3 way type trade from what I’ve heard)
I wonder if Willingham might be available, that would be interesting.
And because my mind isn’t really all that focused I can’t think of any others.
I’d really like to get Dejesus, as long as it’s not a super high price.
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
All right then, what would people offer KC for DeJesus?
in a realistic trade. Less what will they ask for, but what would you try to tempt them with that isn’t too crazy…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
They need infielders
except 1st/3rd.
They also need a CF.
Trayvon, DeJesus , Ely for DeJesus not that I think he’d be much of an upgrade over a Paul Johnson platoon. Okay he’d be an upgrade but worth $6 million upgrade? I don’t know, I think Paul is going to hit RHP exactly the same as DeJesus.
by meercatjohn on Jul 21, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Want: Chris Withrow, Dee Gordon and Ethan Martin for Joakim Soria, Alberto Callaspo and Brian Bannister
Will: Chris Withrow for Rodrigo Lopez
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
Manny
Would love to trade him in August but I can totally see some jerk ass AL team cock block us cuz of waiver positions and all that.
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on Jul 21, 2010 10:29 AM PDT reply actions
If the Dodgers are at a point where they are willing to trade Manny, they would gladly let the claiming team simply take him and relieve themselves of ~$5 million (spread over three seasons)
by Eric Stephen on Jul 21, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
How about this hare-brained blockbuster?
Dee Gordon, Lucas May and Chris Withrow for Dan Haren.
-
Smaller scale:
Eovaldi and May for Scott Downs
More likely: Webster and Robinson for Downs (sigh)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I want to trade The Hulk from the Avengers
to the X-Men, for Beast, aka Dr. Hank McCoy
How would you define your approach to management, apart from being brilliant?
We already have X-Man though.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
HULK HAS TEAM OF ACTOR PLAY HIM IN MOVIES
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
The Hulk and Beast are both card carrying members of the Avengers.
And the Hulk is a founding member so he would be untradeable.
RET-CON BITCH!!!!
I’m just guessing, I have no idea.
by Tommy Blackjack on Jul 21, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
The Captain was
Voted founding member status. Let’s not forget that the Hulk was voted off planet as well.
Starters:
Haren
Kershaw
Bills
HK
Night Stalker
Bullpen:
Brox
Kuo
Belli (future)
McDonald
Schilcting
Weaver
Troncoso
by Julio Nievas on Jul 21, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
It would make me sad to never see Jansen pitch
but for Haren and his contract this doesn’t seem to be a horrible trade.
OH well...
We’re probably not going to trade for Haren anyway, we’ll probably trade all those guys for Scott Downs…
by Julio Nievas on Jul 21, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Is Maholm that much better than Ely longterm? I just don’t see Maholm being that much mor valuable for the added cost and age.
Looking at Maholm’s K/9 numbers piss me off.
by Julio Nievas on Jul 21, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
not if Ely can’t make adjustments. I was happy with his initial success, but was worried the league would figure him out, which seemed apparent in his last couple starts.
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on Jul 21, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
What about DJ Carrasco?
(as a cheaper alternative to the shitty vets like Octavio Dotel)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/carradj01.shtml
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Manny for Sheets
How about Manny to Oakland for Sheets? Oakland can “test drive” Ramirez as a possible FA signing next year. Sheets could try to reestablish some value in LA.
by kimo from kauai on Jul 21, 2010 11:44 AM PDT reply actions
What Ned will do
Acquire Downs, along with Maholm or Zach Duke
=====
What I’d do – Future planning dont think we have the horses they year and to make up the holes in 2011 build now
Casey Blake to the Twins for Wilson Ramos C (They desperately need a 3rd as does Detroit) Ramos has been an offensive disappointment and may only be a backup catcher at that but you get rid of Blake’s salary for 2011 which would be alot given what his production might be at age 38.
Russell Martin to the Rays for Wily Aybar, Dionnar Navarro, andy Sonnanstine – They will non tender Martin in the winter because of the cost but for now they need a catcher, and not a young one but a veteran catcher like Martin. These are spare parts for the Rays but they could help our bench. Aybar moves into the mix as the 2011 3rd baseman or becomes a solid bench player who can handle 1st, 3rd, and 2nd in an emergency. Dionnar gives Ramos some competition and backup. Just two years ago he was the starting catcher in the world series.
Kuroda – to the White Sox for Dan Hudson( White Sox pay now we get the future)
Padilla – to the Reds for Juan Francisco (3rd)
2011 Team:
Loney
DeWitt/DeJesus
Furcal
Francisco/Aybar
Ramos/Navarro/May/Ellis – hopefully two of the four will equal something close to the Martin offensive production while being paid the minimum. Or you sign guys like Ramon Castro, John Buck and such. Navarro looks like he’s got his eye back in AAA.
Andre
Kemp
Paul/Johnson
Russ Mitchell Utility
Rotation:
Kershaw
Billingsley
Free Agent $8 – $12 Million
Hudson
McDonald/Ely/Sonnanstine or a trade during the winter
Bullpen- strength
Broxton
Kuo
Jansen
Belisario
Lindblom
Leach
Troncoso
With late 2011 Gordon/Sands/Trayvon Robinson/Withrow/Aaron Miller getting ready to contribute. Maybe even Lambo.
Saving the money that would be spent on Casey Blake and Martin we should be able to stay within current financial constraints and bring in a good starting pitcher. Maybe even bring back Kuroda. This team would only compete if Kershaw, Billingsley, Kemp, and Loney continue to get better while Andre continues to be Andre. If they don’t we are screwed either way. Nothing earth shattering.
I looked at a 2011 possible lineup of
Loney
Dewiit
Furcal
Blake
Martin
Andre
Kemp
Paul/Johnson
with a Rotation
of
Kershaw
Billingsley
McDonald
Ely
Haeger
and decided we better shed some salary (Blake/Martin) to get a pitcher and might as well pick up a pitcher for Kuroda while we are at it.
by meercatjohn on Jul 21, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I was refering
to the double post I though I saw happen, one first at :48 and the other at 12:02. Which didn’t make sense since they where like 14 minutes apart.
Oh,
I posted prematurely, and removed the 1st one.
by meercatjohn on Jul 21, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I think I would hold onto Padilla and try to bring him back next season. Cincy is probably not looking for starters and would probably be hesitant to deal Francisco with Rolen being a health question mark.
I think he’s gone next year anyway, so if we’re selling, might as well get something for him.
by Michael White on Jul 21, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
You lost/had me at
Casey Blake to the Twins for Wilson Ramos C
You think they’d do that?
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
if only
because they have Mauer, and need a third baseman I guess
by Tommy Blackjack on Jul 21, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
They were the last team in on Blake
as a Free Agent. They need a 3B badly with the MVP status uncertain which means that Cuddyer has to move to 1st. Ramos star has slipped, he’s blocked, it would be the reverse Santana deal except Ramos couldn’t carry Santan’’s jock strap. But the pathos of trading Blake for a catcher because you traded your future catcher for Blake makes it worthwhile because we need that point rubbed in our wounds as much as possible.
by meercatjohn on Jul 21, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
but they would be getting him for the third contract year that they were unwilling to offer him. Why pay top prospects for Casey Blake when you could just sign Joe Crede and get the same production?
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
Interesting stuff
Provocative. I like it. And yeah, I don’t see almost any of it happening…
I mean they’d have to really be selling off on the rest of 2010 (which could happen) to get rid of all those guys. Padilla could be a trade chip indeed IF the Dodgers give up on this year….
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
“he…he doesn’t know how to haggle.”
by Tommy Blackjack on Jul 21, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
If I can be convinced to punt on the rest of this year, I can get behind the Phil plan.
The Ultimate Ned's Kind of Guy
by Humma Kavula on Jul 21, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I really like your thought process, Phil.
But in no way does step 1 even happen..
by Julio Nievas on Jul 21, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Dodgers get Jacoby Ellsbury
Boston gets Prince Fielder
Milwaukee gets Chris Withrow, Dee Gordon, Josh Reddick, Lars Anderson
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
Somehow I don’t bet excited about Ellsbury, I tend to think of him as being overrated. In fact, I think a Paul/Johnson platoon would produce more.
OB12: Ellsbury would play fantastic CF defense, allowing Kemp to slide to RF and Ethier to go to LF. His OPS is fairly low but he would provide an exciting leadoff option should Raffy leave after next year and would be under team control for two years.
Ivdown: Please explain how. You’ve provided nothing to the conversation. Is it terrible for us, for the Sox, or for Milwaukee? Who would be the party to back down from this deal?
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
"Fantastic CF defense" is not what Ellsbury provides
He’s a great corner outfielder, but his bad route running has hurt his CF abilities. In Dodger Stadium, that would be even more evident than it was in Fenway. For the cost, Ellsbury won’t be worth it, especially with the injury this year and our relative strength of OF depth. I also don’t see Boston going for it, since Ortiz, Youk, and Beltre have been pretty effective this year. Their weakness has been OF health and depth, something that Ellsbury helps them at.
Ellsbury’s cost will also start sky rocketting, and we need to keep the kind of impact talent (especially wrt SS) like Withrow and Gordon for the future with question marks about ability to sign FA’s and draft picks.
by QuinnTheEzkamo on Jul 21, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s a fucking terrible trade (sorry, it just angers me so bad because it sucks so bad).
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
We are giving up enough
for Ellsbury but I don’t think the Brewers are getting enough for Fielder. Boston will need to chip in at least one blue chip and Lars Anderson ain’t that guy.
Regarding Ellsbury and his CF defense. It was my understanding he was moved to LF and they signed Cameron because the Sox did not like his CF defense.
I didn’t know that about Ellsbury. I read his profile on a Sox prospect site and it said his D was good and I didn’t look any further into it. I picked Lars Anderson has the arbitrary top prospect based on the same site ranking him as their #3 prospect and him being a 1B. I wouldn’t be surprised if both LAD and BOS chip in an additional prospect to MIL especially if it means we get a reliever with Ellsbury.
If nothing else, I hope Fielder gets traded and it costs a Teixeira-esque armada of prospects because that would raise the asking price if anyone actually did come asking for Ethier/Kemp. Noth that either of them are going anywhere nor would I want them to.
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
Ellsbury's CF D
According to fangraphs, he has made 229 starts in CF and played 1990 innings there, which is starting to verge on a meaningful sample size. His career UZR/150 in CF is -0.1. That is a decent, average fielding CF.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I'd like him
but I doubt the Cubs trade him, and I think he’s owed a lot of money.
by Tommy Blackjack on Jul 21, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
3-team Deal
Not really sure but somehow a deal involving Minn, ChiCubs and us.
Something like:
Minn gets: Ted Lilly, Casey Blake, cash
LAD gets: Aramis Ramirez, cash
CHC gets: prospects
Playing with this a little bit, if we only gave up a couple of decent prospects, like say Ethan Martin and Robinson we could probably still turn around and try to get an arm like Maholm or even someone like Sheets. We could play for this season with hot A-Ram and next.
sorry to do this man.
10:$15.75M, 11:$14.6M player option, 12:$16M club option ($2M buyout)
full no-trade clause 2007-10, $1M assignment bonus if traded
Ramirez has right to void contract after 2010 & become a free agent
2012 option becomes guaranteed if he is traded and excercises 2011 option.
by Tommy Blackjack on Jul 21, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
He'd be crazy to void his contract
unless he doesn’t like money because he ain’t getting those numbers again.
yeah
let’s go young in the FO, heh heh
by Tommy Blackjack on Jul 21, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Do we get the Gorilla Suit
or does that stay in Boston?
by nolander on Jul 21, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Um, but isn't Tim Wallach already in the organization?
Why are we trading within the Dodgers? ;-)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Dodgers get: Alex Gordon, Reid Brignac/Sean Rodriguez, Matt Joyce, Shawn Marcum
Royals get: Blake Dewitt, Ethan Martin
Rays get: Manny Ramirez (on July 31st), some mid level prospect
Blue Jays get: Aaron Miller, Kyle Russell, Nathan Eovaldi
Thoughts?
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
damn I like what we would get
I don’t think the other teams would like what they got.
by Tommy Blackjack on Jul 21, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe go with Withrow or Webster over Martin for the Royals, or add Rubby or Pimental?
For the Blue Jays offer give them Webster or Withrow instead of Miller and possibly add Van Slyke or Dejesus?
To get those 4 players (either Brignac or Rodriguez) I’d definitely be willing to give up more in each deal.
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
Maybe that's too much for the Royals actually
I am just really high on Gordon still.
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
I think the Royals would require more and I don’t think the Rays would deal from anything but their pitching depth. If we could get Wade Davis for Manny, Miller, Russell, Eovaldi I’d be happy.
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
I think the Royals would be happy to get that
for a 25 year old AAA left fielder. At this point DeWitt is worth more the Gordon given what Gordon has done offensively at the major league level and the fact he’s now a LF while DeWitt is posting a .350 OB as a 2nd baseman. No way do I include Martin in that deal.
I think the Rays would want a lot more to give up any one of those three players. A healthy Manny is different then a crippled Manny.
I think that is about right for Marcum, but I don’t want Marcum.
Am I missing something? Why would a penny-pinching org like the Rays trade for Manny? Or would the Dodgers be paying most of the money?
http://www.dingersblog.com
Probably all of it
for us to get anything in return. They’d certainly sell out some games at the trop to see Manny in tampa blue playing the Yanks and Sox a few more times.
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
Sherril has been only 55% as useless as GA though! -0.5 WAR for GS, -0.9 for GA. Something about those GSherril/GAnderson/GScott’s that screams fail.
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
We need...
1/ A 5th starter
2/ A good middle relief
3/ An offensive C
4/ A healthy LF
5/ A good bench
So…
1/ Lindblom, Haeger and Van Slyke for Pineiro
2/ Call up Jansen (AA), Troncoso (AAA) and Leach (AA)… DFA Sherrill, demote The German…
3/ Ellis (AAA), Guerra (AA) and Russ Martin for Buck or Doumit
4/ Martin (hi-A), Manny and Miller (AA) for Dunn…
5/ DFA Anderson and Johnson will be back from DL…
So the rotation will featured:
Kershaw
Bills
Padilla
HK
Pineiro
Relievers:
Weaver
Leach
Troncoso
Jansen
Kuo
Monasterios
Broxton
Lineup:
Furcal
Kemp
Ethier
Dunn
Loney
Doumit
Buck
Blake
DeWitt
Pitcher
Bench:
May
Carroll
Belliard
Paul
Johnson
What do you think?
Louise Bourgoin: The hottest French actress I've ever seen <3
1) The Angels don’t want to move Pineiro, nor would they take that deal
4) Ned would never trade for Dunn, nor would the Nats take Manny; if they deal Dunn, it’s for salary relief and prospects.
by Eric Stephen on Jul 21, 2010 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions
my dad and i always say we need an offenive catcher, a healthy/ccontributing left fielder and another pitcher.
I don’t know who we could get and how, so can you guys help me?
"you owe it to yourself to be the best in baseball and in life" Pete rose.
F the jets, bills, patriots and cryboys...and sooners, but go phins, longhorns, dodgers and stanford!
by dolger14 on Jul 21, 2010 11:41 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
How about a non-Dodgers loving spin on things?
Rumor is the Dodgers need a SP and don’t have a lot of financial wiggle room, so…
Ben Sheets + his remaining salary
For
Jerry Sands + Carl Allen Webster
Or, for the sake of discussion, explain why a Sheets + $$$ for Trayvon Robinson + Webster deal makes more sense for both teams. Personally I could go either way but Billy Beane has been searching far and wide to add power to the A’s line-up which is why I think he’d prefer Sands.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Ned will be very hesistant
to take on a perceived injury risk like Sheets. Personally, although Sheets’ results have been a little bit better in the last six or seven weeks, his peripherals just aren’t very impressive.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I can buy the injury risk argument
’Course, that also eliminates Myers, Westbrook and Lilly from consideration as well.
Is Ned going to be willing to part with the talent necessary to land a SP with more than a few months left on their current contract?
The monster at the end of this blog.
I've always liked Sheets and could see them being interested to a point
but Dave’s right abut the concerns there. (I’d rather have him than Myers, Westbrook or Lilly though.) You also picked Sands and Webster, two of the very favorite prospects around these parts ;-) I know fans never want to let go of their favorites but those guys in particular would be too much to ask for. I could see Beane liking Trayvon Robinson, that one might make more sense, though the Dodgers are still thin in the OF in the minors and may not want to give him up. I could see it more like Lucas May and Eovaldi or something…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Aren’t the A’s overloaded with outfielders? Wouldn’t be shocked for them to ask for Gordon.
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
They can ask for Gordon, I just don't see the Dodgers giving them
the guy (right or wrong) considered their top prospect for Ben Sheets. I happen to think, or at least worry, that Gordon is overrated so in the right deal I could see giving him up, but not in that deal. Still, yeah, A’s could ask for him. I thought May could interest them as a guy with a good bat but defensive issues that may require a position switch or to DH.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
They are talking about locking Suzuki up long term, so I doubt they ask for a catcher. I just can’t think of another infielder prospect they’d want. Maybe they ask for DeJesus and a C+ pitching prospect?
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
My point was that some would say Lucas May doesn't project to remain
a catcher unless he can improve there still further. He could be moved to a different position and in the AL, DH.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
The A's already have a guy in Chris Carter who shares May's profile
The monster at the end of this blog.
That would be a waste of breath
Beane was big on DeJesus a couple years ago, not so sure post-busted leg.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Why should the Dodgers get to acquire a free big league SP without it costing them young talent?
May came into the year with 75 passed balls in 239 games behind the plate. He turns 26 in October and his 864 OPS is tainted by the fact he plays in maybe the best hitter’s park in the minor leagues. Eovaldi’s key numbers are 85-35-58. Sure, I like the repetition but more strike outs would be better.
I’m trying to be fair here. According to this post I’m currently asking for the Dodgers 5th best SP prospect, a guy with almost no chance of factoring in to the Dodgers’ 2011 rotation plans. Yeah, I can see where losing Sands would hurt the org chart which is why I’m willing to be persuaded on Robinson if someone can make a convincing argument.
But May and Eovaldi? Do either of those guys make your personal top-20 list?
The monster at the end of this blog.
Trayvon is too much as well
Sheets isn’t close to what he use to be, and he should be paid for as such in a trade.
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
Eovaldi was on a lot of guys top lists here yeah
There are some worries about him that have caused him to slip a bit back in some minds. But he’s still one of their higher ranked starting pitching prospects (see TBLA post on Dodger SP prospects). May, again, is a very good hitter, “tainted” numbers or no, who would be moved from catcher. I just thought Beane might be interested in him. He may still be interested in DeJesus as well.
I think we’re probably overvaluing our prospects as much as you’re probably overvaluing Sheets, so we could meet you halfway ;-)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Eovaldi was in the All Star game this year
Granted he sucked, but the fact he was there shows it’s not just us who are overvaluing him.
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
Sheets is nothing more than a workhorse SP these days
He’s gone at least 6 IP over his last 14 GS. The Dodgers need that kind of production in their rotation. I don’t think he’s version 2008, but what he is is a good #4 for a team that needs a #5.
May buys Oakland nothing they don’t already have in the younger Chris Carter. Eovaldi came into the season ranked 13th by BA, a C+ by Sickels and 15th by Goldstein; his performance has almost certainly dropped his stock.
If the A’s were to actually ship Sheets to LA with the money to pay for his full salary then they’d be entitled to higher quality talent than the prospects you’ve suggested, even if that means they stick to the lower minor shopping bin. So let me throw out a couple more options:
Sheets + $$$ for Ethan Martin + 1 from SS ball.
Sheets + $$$ for Webster + 1 from a lower level full season league.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Those are such, such awful deals. I’m sorry, but if Sheets only skill is going more than 6 innings in a game he’s not worth trading one of our top prospects for. Sheets season is seriously no good. And again, that homerun rate is absolutely ridiculous for a pitcher in possibly the best pitchers park in all of baseball (outside of Petco).
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
Yeah I agree on the top prospects thing. Here's Tony Jackson on ESPN with more:
Ben Sheets, RH, Oakland. He missed all of last season after elbow surgery and has been less than spectacular after signing last winter with the A’s, going 4-9 with a 4.53 ERA in 20 starts thus far. He has pitched well in three starts this month, though. He has about $3.5 million left on his one-year, $10 million deal, plus he has a series of $500,000 bonuses based on innings pitched that will start to kick in when he gets to 165 (he already has 119 1/3). There is no guarantee he would be anything more than a two-month rental, so the Dodgers probably aren’t going to trade any highly valued prospects to get him.
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/news/story?id=5400034
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
But where is the line drawn?
Webster is sitting as maybe the 5th best SP prospect in LA’s system. He’s good, but he is redundant and he’s not positioned to help the Dodgers before 2012.
I’m just saying that even for a guy like Sheets… if cash is included then I don’t see how LA doesn’t part with a top-10 guy.
And I still find it hard to believe that the Dodgers need cash to make a deal happen!
The monster at the end of this blog.
6 IP/start in the AL means
that probably half the time we would have pinch-hit for him at some point before the 6th, so going 6+ IP in the AL isn’t worth a spit in a bucket.
Sheets isn't close to good enough to land Jerry Sands and Webster right now
Brett Anderson if he was healthy, maybe ;P
Seriously, Sands and Webster are two Dodgers prospects having the best seasons, they should be untouchable unless it’s for an elite player (I’m not even saying they are elite prospects, they are just untouchable for lower players because of how our system is doing right now).
I’ll send over Scott Van Slyke and Nathan Eovaldi for Sheets :P
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
And we'd get turned down
Remember, the A’s could just keep him and collect draft picks. We have to offer something better than what they could get.
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
I have read reports that the A’s can’t get draft picks for Sheets because his contract stipulates that they don’t offer him arbitration.
forgot it was a two year trend. I still think they could get more than Van Slyke and Eovaldi for him. Though, like others have mentioned, I’m not even sure Ben Sheets is all that good right now. I’d only trade for him if I intended to offer him a 2-3 year extension.
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
I know we would, hence the ":P"
Van Slyke is worth almost nothing, so I don’t expect to get anything for him.
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
The A's can't offer Sheets arbitration if he's a Type A FA
Which ain’t gonna happen.
The monster at the end of this blog.
We're saving Van Slyke for the nostalgic Pirates, remember? ;-)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Let me rephrase what I just said
worth almost nothing…except to the Pirates :)
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
Sheets by himself might not be
Sheets plus 5 million, on the other hand…
Here’s the way I see it. Colletti gave up Carlos Santana to land Casey Blake plus $$$ and I consider Santana to have been a better prospect at the time than either Sands or Webster are now. (Meloan wasn’t exactly chopped liver in ’08 either.)
If the Dodgers need to acquire a legit MLB-caliber SP at no financial cost then they need to part with some legit talent. And if I’m wrong about the state o’ the Dodgers’ situation then I’m prepared to be corrected.
The monster at the end of this blog.
From what you just said you should realize
That Colletti HAD to have learned from that idiotic mistake of trading Santana, the up and comer of that year (Sands for 2010) for a an old rental player, whether to save a few million or not (which may not even be true, there’s no way to really know).
If Colletti did the same thing for Sheets here and just to save some money he would hunted down and tortured by someone I’d imagine, lol.
The problem with your statement is that Sheets is nowhere near the pitcher he was in 2008. He’s not striking many people out, he’s walking more than he has in his career, he’s allowing a TON of hr in an extreme pitchers park, and he’s just generally not good. John Ely is in the minors and he has had a similar season to Sheets in 2010. I wanted Sheets before the year, but now I’m glad the Dodgers didn’t sign him.
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
There's a flaw in your argument
Colletti did the same thing a year later to land Manny. So learning… maybe not so much.
And if he truly feels compelled to improve his pitching staff and he doesn’t have the budget flexibility to take on the contract than he has no choice but to pay more in talent.
The monster at the end of this blog.
The Manny trade is looking a lot better than trading Santana
(as much as I love Casey Blake, so one can argue getting him was great, but they gave up an A/blue chip prospect); giving up Andy LaRoche, who they’d soured on, and now the Pirates have soured on, and Bryan Morris to get one of the best hitters in baseball is not at the same level as the Santana move imho.
That said, yes I can see some scenarios where they’ll give up a highly rated prospect — your Sheets scenario above for Ethan Martin and a short season/A league prospect seems very possible. We shall see.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Colletti traded a failed 3B prospect and a guy coming off Tommy John surgery, we were handed Manny with a cherry on top. The Manny trade was the best trade of Colletti’s career. I’m not sure why you are acting like the Dodgers lost anything of real value by doing that trade. Sure Morris is doing well now, but in A+ ball if I’m not mistaken. It will be a long time before he can contribute anything at the MLB level, if at all.
I agree with your last sentence, but that doesn’t mean anyone wants him to do that. 8 out of 10 people in here would rather not trade than overtrade for someone who is not Haren or Oswalt.
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
A sort of update on Sheets
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/as-not-close-to-moving-ben-sheets.html
The A’s are not in a hurry to trade Ben Sheets, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The club would listen to offers, but the A’s like having Sheets around and aren’t under pressure to shed payroll. The right-hander provides innings and leadership, so the A’s are content to keep him.
ESPN.com’s Buster Olney hears that the A’s aren’t involved in trade talks involving Sheets or others at the moment (Twitter link). Olney reports that rival teams are not convinced that Sheets can be a difference-maker.
Earlier today, ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark reported that the A’s would absorb salary in a trade for Sheets and were ready to deal the righthander. Just yesterday it appeared that interest in Sheets was picking up and the Phillies appeared to be a suitor. That momentum seems to have disappeared, but we can safely say that Sheets could be had and teams do have some interest.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
An A I'd rather have since he'd be cheaper and fill in more of a need is
Craig Breslow, but with Yanks and Red Sox interested, Dodgers can probably forget it. He’ll soon be an overvalued reliever, too.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Breslow is a bullpen workhorse
Though the workload might scare off teams, but overall he’s been dominant. Signed through 2013
Yeah the contract too probably makes him pricier
than he normally would be. Not sure the A’s are even really legitimately shopping him around anyway, though I’m sure Beane will always listen.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
In 2008, would you have traded Carlos Santana, Bryan Morris, Andy LaRoche, and Jon Meloan for Casey Blake, Manny Ramirez and 10 million dollars?
I would have. The fact that the Santana deal has turned out poorly for us doesn’t look so bad when put into a cumulative trade that year. You can’t win them all, but we royally won one and lost one that year.
Just a reminder, fans, comin' up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dodgers won a pennant.
Heh.
Well let’s put it this way, you’re both right. I think we can all agree that losing Carlos Santana was a terrible thing. Most of us think it was a mistake, and if they were gonna throw in a prospect to save money (debated) then prefer it would’ve been someone else. That said there’s something to be said for adding Blake and Ramirez as far as helping the Dodgers get to the NLCS twice in a row, and it’s hard to deny that no one really misses the other prospects very much.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
PS: If anyone wants to keep this thread going feel free to give it a recommend :-)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
by underdog on Jul 23, 2010 11:49 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
What about this?
With recent rumblings about BJ Upton, I thought a 3-way deal may be in order.
Rays get: Ramirez, Hart
Brewers get: McDonald, Niemann
Dodgers get: Upton
We still have enough pieces to try and make a move on Maholm or maybe even Oswalt.
Yeah, I’m not sure we are giving up enough though. I can’t tell who should be giving up more or getting more.
We’re the clear winners. Rays get two veteran mashers but give up two valuable young talents. Brewers get a nice piece in Niemann but would need more from us. (I view McDonald’s value as nominal at this point.)
I think we get the most upside, clearly. Actual production though, we seem losing out. I could see adding another piece but don’t know who it would go to, probably the Rays.
The confounding part for us is we’d still be paying Manny for the next x years, except we wouldn’t even have him for the stretch run. Fun to think about though . . .
I dont see how we are winners Upton may be a change of scenary guy
but he is a guy you send to a team with vetern leadership who can get in his ass and thats what the dodgers dont have. In fact the rays might just non tender him
All right, here we go
“An NL exec tells Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that the Astros are looking to obtain "two top prospects, a third minor-league player and a young player who is ‘major league ready’" if they trade Oswalt.”—-www.mlbtraderumors.com
I don’t think I want to trade our prospects at all, but here’s my best guess at what a reasonable offer for Oswalt might be (I’m not advocating a move, mind you):
1. Withrow
2. Gordon
3. Webster
4. Ely
Yeah, it’s a lot. But we’re not going to get him cheap. You need a centerpiece, and E. Martin isn’t quite a centerpiece. (I’m leaving Sands off on principle.) Oswalt would have to quiet the option year talk and pass a physical.
If we do that
We should go after Greinke and make it:
Withrow
Gordon
Webster
Ely
Russell
Eovaldi/Magill
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
Yeah Greinke's the one I'd have just about no one in the Dodgers' system off limits
Oswalt is worth a lot, too, but with age and other factors I would rather not “give up the farm” for him at quite the extent I would for Greinke.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Especially after Greinke's last start
it seems that his shoulder is doing fine, and most scouts think his mechanics make him relatively safe from an injury standpoint. I’d be lying to say I’m not drooling a bit to think of him and Kershaw as a 1-2 punch, with Bills right behind. Had DeJesus not shredded his thumb, it might have been an even bigger trade to get both.
Sheets update
mlbtraderumors: Sheets Headed To Disabled List http://bit.ly/9WR5lq
Yeah… next.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Neither does David DeJesus :-( Poor Royals...
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I actually feel worse for the Royals than I do the A's
Thanks for the hospitality.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Oh it's not even close. The Royals have been a mess for years, are small market
and just can’t buy a break on top of it. At least Beane usually has the A’s competitive with what he has to work with, has a lot of good young players, and maybe just maybe will get a new stadium (maybe). The Royals are just sad… (Just ask Rob Neyer.)
and you’re welcome, thanks for contributing!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I couldn't find a good spot to put this....
Heard this: The Astros asked the Dodgers for Matt Kemp early in the negotiations for Roy Oswalt.
From Olney’s blog on ESPN this morning…
I about fell out of my chair when I read that…
Well… It looks like it ain’t going to be the Dodgers if they want Kemp…
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
They’ve recently toned it down to Loney, but they’re still delusional.
Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes. Think classy, you'll be classy. If you win 20 in the show, you can let the fungus grow back and the press'll think you're colorful. Until you win 20 in the show, however, it means you are a slob.
LOL
Good one, McInsane. Probably trying to take advantage of Kemp slumping, Dodgers being unhappy with him earlier in the year, etc, but he ain’t going anywhere, that’s insulting.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Soooo, let's narrow this down. Who will the Dodgers give up for Scott Posednik?
(As I said on other TBLA thread I like him and would be ok with adding him to team to strengthen bench and depth, but don’t want to give up more than a C+ prospect.)
Who do you think?
Javy Guerra? Jon Link?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I would be a little disappointed to see Link go in a deal. Guerra sounds about right, but I could really see it being a PTNL (Hu when healed).
My prediction:
We acquire Podsednik from the Royals for PTBNL.
We acquire Zambrano and half his contract from the Cubs for Lambo and Troncoso
GA is DFA’d, Podsednik takes his place on the 40-man
Taschner is DFA’d, Russ Mitchell takes his place on the 40-man
SS Furcal
LF Pods/Paul/Mitchell
RF Ethier
CF Kemp
3B Blake
1B Loney
2B DeWitt
C Martin
IF/OF Mitchell
IF Carroll
IF Belliard
OF Paul
C Ausmus
Kershaw
Bills
Kuroda
Padilla
Zambrano
Broxton
Kuo
Jansen
McDonald
Weaver
Monk
Sherrill
Some good ideas
but I do not think they have interest in Zambrano and he’s such a head case I hope not, not even for a small offer like that. I also don’t think Lambo or Troncoso have any trade value right now anyway…
You don’t have to twist my arm about GA and Taschner DFAs…;-)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Sure Zambrano is a head case, but it is not like Ned hasn’t brought in a few of those over the past few season (Manny, Padilla). He is probably certifiably nuts, but that just means we could get him pretty cheaply, for guys who’s value is low (Lambo and Troncoso), while getting a most of the money picked up. We have done well by buying low, this seems like another good opportunity.
I would like to see an all-out deal for Greinke
Gordon, Withrow, Miller, Sands, and Ely.
Basically, just dumping everything out at the Royals.
Yeah I would give them the pick of the prospects for him but
don’t see them giving Greinke up at all.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Yeah I would give them the pick of the prospects for him but
don’t see them giving Greinke up at all.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
weird. sorry about that. stupid phone.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
WAT
Van Slyke and Eovaldi/Gould for Maholm
Should happen: Trayvon and Wallach for Scott Olson and maybe Sean Burnett.
Want: Chris Withrow, Dee Gordon and Ethan Martin for Joakim Soria, Alberto Callaspo and Brian Bannister
Will: Chris Withrow for Rodrigo Lopez
Ben Sheets + his remaining salary
For
Jerry Sands + Carl Allen Webster
It was a dark time in Dodger Nation when I wrote Withrow for Rodrigo Lopez lol.
The question wasn’t what should we do, the question was what will Ned do. As for Withrow, Gordon and Martin for Soria, Callaspo and Bannister, I find the only problem to be that we wouldn’t have given up enough for a top AL closer, a reliable IF bat and what would be a good starter in NL west parks.
I like Cetera.
You all act as if:
Prospects grow on tress. Guess what, they don’t . You all are underselling just about every one of our prospects, and hoping we get back players who are at best mediocre? Why. Most of the players you for some reason want are truly awful. Old, never good, injury-history, etc.
Trading our prospects for bad veterans is what has gotten us to this point. Think how much better this team would be if Carlos Santana was playing somewhere on the diamond, even if it wasn’t at catcher.
I always criticize Ned because he makes almost exclusively awful moves, but these moves are actually worse than many I expect he wants to make.
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NL West Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
San Diego
|
76 | 59 | .562 | 0 | Lost 10 |
|
San Francisco
|
76 | 61 | .554 | 1 | Won 2 |
|
Colorado
|
72 | 64 | .529 | 4.5 | Won 3 |
|
Los Angeles
|
69 | 68 | .503 | 8 | Lost 2 |
|
Arizona
|
56 | 81 | .408 | 21 | Lost 2 |
(updated 9.5.2010 at 7:48 PM PDT)
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