Broxton Needin' Fewer Outings In The Near Future
by Eric Stephen on Aug 13, 2010 7:00 AM PDT
in Dodgers History & Records
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Every time I see Jonathan Broxton, I can't help but think of Tom Niedenfuer. Both are relievers of giant size, both delivered several seasons of excellent relief for the Dodgers, but both will be remembered for their failures more than their successes.
Everybody remembers Ozzie Smith and Jack Clark, who hit successive game-winning home runs off Niedenfuer in the 1985 NLCS, but nobody remembers the 10 1/3 playoff innings without an earned run to start Niedenfuer's career. With Jonathan Broxton, his obituary is sure to feature the two failures to the Phillies in the last two Games Four more than it is to feature the one run he gave up in his other eight postseason appearances as closer.
But that goes with the territory as closer. A bad day at the office as a closer often directly means a loss, as they are literally the last men standing on the mound. However, it's not life and death out there. For Niedenfuer, he had a much worse experience over a year before Clark hit a ball to the moon. From Henry Hecht in the July 2, 1984 edition of Sports Illustrated:
The quick thinking of L.A. scout Charlie Metro probably saved the life of pitcher Tom Niedenfuer last Tuesday. "I thought we had lost him," Metro said.
While waiting for a teammate in the lower lobby of the Dodgers' hotel in Cincinnati, Niedenfuer felt excruciating pain from a kidney stone. Wanting to return to his room to lie down, he got on an elevator that happened to stop at the next level, the hotel's upper lobby. Waiting to get on was Terry Johnson, the Dodger beat reporter for the Torrance Daily Breeze.
"I'm in trouble," Niedenfuer told Johnson. "I'm losing it." Then he passed out in Johnson's arms.
"I was yelling, 'Get a doctor!' " Johnson said. "Then, about a hundred feet away I saw Charlie, and I yelled for him. He was the only person I knew there."
Metro rushed over, saw that Niedenfuer had stopped breathing, and started to give him artificial respiration. Then Metro realized that Niedenfuer had swallowed his tongue. He pried open Niedenfuer's mouth, and while Johnson kept the tongue free, resumed the artificial respiration.
"For what seemed like 100 years," Johnson wrote later, "Niedenfuer didn't breathe."
Niedenfuer regained consciousness a few minutes later and, after receiving treatment from a Dodger trainer, was taken to the hospital, where he spent the night. Three nights later in Atlanta, he worked a scoreless inning in the Dodgers' 10-4 win.
I had never heard that story before, but I was almost more amazed that, considering the Dodgers usually have only three traveling beat reporters with them on the road these days, 26 years ago the Torrance Daily Breeze had quite the travel budget.
Back to the issue at hand, I still think Broxton can and will be a dominant closer. I don't think this has anything to do with his fire or heart, looking into his eyes, or anything like that. I am not qualified as a psychologist to make those kinds of judgments. What I do know is something is wrong with Broxton now. Since the All-Star break, he has allowed 10 runs, nine hits, and 11 walks in eight innings, with only five strikeouts, and has three blown saves.
Whether the Dodgers think they are contention or not, the team would be better served by Broxton getting some time off.
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I’m keenly interested in making sure people don’t pry my mouth open with a spoon if I have a seizure.
by Bob Timmermann on Aug 13, 2010 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Our gym coach
did that when two players collided. Before that he was considered a goofy old gym coach, he acted calmly and knew exactly what to do. His rep changed for those of us who saw him in action.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Maybe Brox should pitch more
IF the problem is mental and not physical, maybe he would be better off getting some consistent innings to try to get back into a rhythm rather than stewing for 3-4 days between outings like he has been doing since the All-Star break?
If it is not physical, than I agree with this.
by robotmadeofnails on Aug 13, 2010 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions
- I think Broxton tends to break down in the 2nd half of the year. I don’t think there is anything necessarily wrong with him, just like I didn’t last year.
- I think there are no better options to be closer for the Dodgers.
- I think its all irrelevant anyway as the season ended before last night.
- If you want to trade Broxton, the best time to do so is at the all-star break next season after he has another dominant first half.
Broxton's splits say different
2006
Pre-AS: 36.1 IP, 43 K, 17 BB, 3.47 ERA
Post-AS: 40.0 IP, 54 K, 16 BB, 1.80 ERA
2007
Pre-AS: 45.0 IP, 52 K, 20 BB, 2.80 ERA
Post-AS: 37.0 IP, 47 K, 5 BB, 2.92 ERA
2008
Pre-AS: 39.2 IP, 46 K, 15 BB, 3.40 ERA
Post-AS: 29.1 IP, 42 K, 12 BB, 2.76 ERA
2009
Pre-AS: 40.2 IP, 65 K, 17 BB, 3.10 ERA
Post-AS: 35.1 IP, 49 K, 12 BB, 2.04 ERA
Weird. I guess he picks back up at the end of the year then, because I remember going through these conversations last year post ASB.
by Michael White on Aug 13, 2010 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions
He’s got
toe-jam football
or atleast he did post ASG 09
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dodgerthoughts/2009/07/july-13.html
He was clearly limping at that time
not the case today.
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
He went through a stretch where he had 3 BlSvs in in a two week period
between 7/29 and 8/15 of last year, so it was probably then.
Yeah
I’m not sure where Mike pulled that from. Maybe he’s using FIP or xFIP but those K and BB rates look solid in the second half. This is a different kind of meltdown for Broxton. We have never seen him lose his control like this. He does not seem to have any clue where the ball is going right now, and if I’m the trainer I’d have a serious sit down with him. This control issue is so out of character I just have to believe it is organic in nature and he’s being stubborn about letting anyone know.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
From ESPN Rumors...
It has been a bizarre season in Hollywood for Matt Kemp, who at times looks like an MVP candidate and at other times resembles a player still desperately trying to find his way.
Kemp drove in 101 runs for the Dodgers last season, but a slow start in 2010 prompted GM Ned Colletti to publicly question the work ethic of the young outfielder. The latest episode of the Kemp saga came Thursday, when he returned from a two-day benching by homering against the Phillies. But Kemp also committed a mental miscue that contributed to a devastating 10-9 loss.
Kemp’s future in Los Angeles became more of an open question when his agent, Dave Stewart, lashed out Thursday over what he perceives as unfair treatment of his client. “It’s very, very difficult to play under the circumstances that Kemp is playing under,” Stewart told Bill Plaschke of the Los Angeles Times.
The Dodgers signed Kemp to a two-year deal this spring for a guaranteed $10.95 million, so they obviously recognize his talent. Keeping him happy and productive may be another matter.
What was the mental miscue that Kemp committed?
Getting thrown out at 3rd base for the final out
when we had a seven run lead. Everyone at the time on the thread said no big deal because of the lead. I differed.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
If they were Angels no one would care because that is how they play
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
The above quote was about Kemp
so I was just letting VaDodger know what the mental miscue they were referring to was.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Man I whiffed on this one, ignore everything
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
We are all off our game this morning.
I blame Kemp.
by Michael White on Aug 13, 2010 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Also Kemp was safe, not out.
The mental miscue mentionedby Plaschke was Kemp not seeing the ball in the 8th and “only” getting a single on that bloop.
by Eric Stephen on Aug 13, 2010 8:14 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The dude lost it in the lights and drove in some runs…big deal
by robotmadeofnails on Aug 13, 2010 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I was eating at rubios with my game on loud on the iphone in the 8th/9th
And the kid who works there walked by and asked what the score was.
me: 9-6 bottom 9
kid: broxton in?
me: nods head
kid: they lost
me: rolls eyes
punk was right
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
Nothing cuts more to the bone then when the ignorant masses are correct
when all studies show them to be ignorant fools.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I had my eyes on the prize in the next block over – yogurtland. chocolate coconut truffle yogurt with strawberries and graham cracker dust. Fuck that kid.
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
The graham cracker
dust sounds good anyways.
Fuck that kid. I am thinking about making that my new signature.
Would you eat a tray of strawberries if it meant the dodgers would start a 20 game win streak?
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
try
being related to someone like that.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
My wife
is like that.
I come in from work in a bad mood and I tell her how the Dodgers lost and her response is
“I don’t know why you’re pissed. They suck.”
I just wanted to cry
Haha
My girlfriend does that same shit. If any of the teams I strongly support lose a big game and I get pissed, she’ll say something like, “Why can’t you root for a team that is good.”
She says this one that makes me want to
move to Montana and be single.
“You act like you’re on the team. You don’t know those people and they don’t know you. Being pissed about a stupid baseball game is really mature.”
that's
my youngest brother who doesn’t care about sports. “Why are you cheering, they can’t hear you through the TV.”
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
He sounds pretty evil if he hates the Dodgers like it looks like he does.
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
oh no
he doesn’t hate the Dodgers, he just derives pleasure from being contrary and elicting anger from others.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah, pretty much
he’s mellowed out a lot recently though. growing out of being a teenager
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
not really
you see the trouble the Dodgers are in because of it.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Does she watch
American Idol, or other reality tv of that sort? If so Sean Connery thinks you should slap her. JK JK DON’T MURDER ME PEOPLE.
Have you ever tried just turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?
my brother
sees Broxton coming in the 9th
“Broxton? NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!”
semi-dramatically, when they lose, his rant was quite epic, but includes a “SEE, I TOLD YOU THEY FUCKING SUCK!!!!!”
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I just tell him
“I’m so glad you’re happy that you were right about that. I’m really glad it makes you feel good.”
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Divorce? :P
I’m only kidding.
My dad is the same way now, it really bothers me.
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
That is a sad story
I feel your pain. I tell my wife about the Dodgers and she responds, “I don’t care.” Breaks my heart!!
"If your Mr. October, I'm Mr. Spring, Summer and Winter!" - Tommy Lasorda to Reggie Jackson
by Ego Crusher! on Aug 13, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know how it happened, but my wife shares my grief.
by robotmadeofnails on Aug 13, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
So if Casey Blake fields a simple ground ball
this whole day would have a different vibe. I’d still be irritated that Broxton exhibited such crappy control, but it might simply have been a blimp on tough save instead of a meltdown.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Andy Laroche picks that ball clean and starts the DP.
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
Not to mention it would have been 12-6 with his homers from both sides of the plate
by Eric Stephen on Aug 13, 2010 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
The comments from Dave Stewart
could be good for the team and good for the player.
regarding a trade helping both parties since he feels Kemp needs new scenery and the Dodgers have multiple holes. Can we trade a young centerfielder one year off his Silver Slugger/Gold Glove season for a starting pitcher, 3rd baseman, catcher? What team has that?
Only Tampa Bay – they are losing Crawford, Pena, and Soriano to free agency. They have Desmond Jennings to replace Crawford, and a plethora of 1st baseman, none of who will adequately replace Pena. They have some nice bullpen members but not sure if they would let Benoit become the closer.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I'd like to see
how Kemp feels with a new coaching staff. Not saying we need to get one JUST for him, but it seems the current staff doesn’t know who to relate to younger players.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Kemp and parts for Upton, Wade Davis, and Navarro?
by Eric Stephen on Aug 13, 2010 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
My deal which I deleted was close to that
Kemp/Broxton – Upton, Davis, Rodriquez, McGee, Navarro
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
If we are rebuilding
we’d be better off asking for Jennings.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Or not dealing with the Rays
I’d start talking to the Braves or Royals before the Rays.
what
would you want from the Braves?
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
They have a lot of guys who would be worth discussing
Trading Kemp should garner a pretty big haul if we’re talking about prospects.
Guys like Freeman, Teheran, Minor…
Those guys pretty much are ready.
Freeman is a 1B though, so a trade for him would imply moving Loney as well.
The way I see this team there are five untouchable players: Kemp, Ethier, Loney, Kershaw, and Billingsley. I would be willing to trade anyone else but I don’t think that you would get the return for these guys to make it worth losing these players.
I think Kershaw is the only untouchable.
We all like Ethier, but let’s face it, the chasm between his perceived value and his real value is big, and I believe his return would be worth trading him.
by Eric Stephen on Aug 13, 2010 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Kershaw is the only untouchable.
Especially if Stewart is hell bent on getting his clients (Kemp, Billingsley) out of L.A after ’12.
i'd say
money talks and kemp/billingsley will stay for however long they’re being paid to.
there’s also a few years that the dodgers management can repair the relationship, which probably wouldn’t take a whole lot. Things just look really bad right now.
http://www.dingersblog.com
by dingers on Aug 13, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
much as I love Dre
I agree with that. Here’s hoping either Russell or Sands can take that next step to becoming a long term guy at the position.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed!
I think Ethier is the one that can give us the best value based on his perceived value.
by robotmadeofnails on Aug 13, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with Tommy that once there is a new coaching staff in place we will be in a better place to decide if it is Kemp or the coaches. If this same stuff is happening next year then get rid of him but if everything improves then you know that it was the coaching staff that was screwing everything up. They can’t keep on blasting him in the paper and not expect that to have some effect on his play.
Yeah, I don’t want to deal Kemp either. Just spitballing.
by Eric Stephen on Aug 13, 2010 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions
This
The only way you deal Kemp is if you get some young stud like Stanton, Alvarez, etc…
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
3B prospect targets
Third baseman of the future should be the focus assuming Blake is immovable, he actually is versatile enough to be the RH platoon for Loney and Ethier as well as a PH/spot starter.
I love the platoon idea if for no other reason than an old fudrucker like Blake needs to sit to be effective(no evidence or stats,sorry)
What the 2011 team needs most of all is a LH solid 3b for the next few years. IMO forget any FAs and I guess I expect payroll restraint in full force. No arb offered anywhere and bargain basement LF stuff. I can live with that. What I would do if I were Ned and faced with these constraints is I would have my 6 assistants scrub the AA, and AAA for every 3b (preferably LH), maybe find one or two blocked at the MLB level, and trade for that one position. Would a Winthrow get a good 3b prospect? probably
We seem to have a few players in the system for 2011-2012 like DeJesus, Sands, Robinson and some pitching. Platoon with Ellis at catcher too,replacing Ausmus cheaply. But nothing at 3b
well the Royals had one
but they moved him to LF
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Alex Gordon?
As the centerpiece of a Kemp trade? That’s a joke.
Centerpiece?
hardly. He’d be an inclusion in a deal for Greinke.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Kemp and Brox for Mike Moustakas and Greinke
Done and done.
Moustakas is going to fail
to live upto the hype.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Just looked at that 2007 draft - what a crap top 10 picks
other then Price/ Weiters.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Bumgarner is really good (unfortunately)
05 may be one of the best top 10 draft classes ever.
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
It would be funny, but highly unlikely
If the Chatworth ’07 kid that turned out to be the best pro was Bobby Coyle.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Aug 13, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
That would be awesome
I liked him in 2007.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of Chatsworth
Marlins 3B Matt Dominguez is best known for his glove work, but his bat’s been showing some life lately. The 20-year-old had four multi-hit games this week for Double-A Jacksonville, finishing with a .393/.469/.679 (11-for-28) line with a homer, three doubles and a triple. He also drove in 10 runs this week, more than he did the entire month of July (six) . .
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Obviously Colletti isn't going to trade Kemp
But will a new coaching staff actually help him (assuming the manager next year is not Torre or Mattingly) or will the continued presence of Colletti be an issue. If nothing else, the fact that there have been three Kemp vs. management/front incidents this year does not bode well for Kemp’s (and I guess Billingsley’s) long-term future in L.A.
i would say
another manager might be more willing to go to bat for him to management. or at least have his back whether in private or public. I don’t know if Torre does, or if he at least relates it.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Bring Tim Wallach to Coach Third Base Today
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Bring Charlie Hough To Be The Bench Coach Today
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Tell Torre To Chill Out
and shut up
While Wallach runs the team for the remainder of the season.
These are my official recommendations
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I'll take my chances
at this point
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
i refer to my argument
what if a meteor hits the earth and we all die?
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Nothing is worse than back stabbing your players in the media.
Especially when you use one of your coaches like Bowa as the messenger.
Management is backing off today and in effect saying Kemp has not been handled properly.
Kemps agent is stating the obvious, the constant backbiting has become intolerable.
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Its not me thats jealous
Its all his teammates, coaches, management, etc. This is just like the Romo/Simpson/Cowboys shit in ’08. Starlets fuck up entire teams somehow.
Jealous
I’d say most of the team is hitting on something better then Rhiannna. Other then her celebrity, she is not exactly a HPOA.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
what kind of dope wants the hassle of some diva celebrity?
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
The kind that wants to brag to their friends.
For every really hot girl, there’s a guy who is tired of banging her. Fact of life. You can only bang so many hot groupies before your goals get loftier.
I would have a whole different plan of attack.
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
it goes from ‘how hot can I get’ to ‘how many hot can I get at once!’
So i’m told.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
So Many groupies hanging out in the lobby of every hotel, and they want to score bad …
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
it makes your face melt just before you die?
The Omar Moreno of this blog
by Humma Kavula on Aug 13, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
The last guy who actually saw it
by Eric Stephen on Aug 13, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
ha
that was so cool back in the day
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I saw Raiders the first time
as a sneak preview one week before the official release, at the old Alex Theater in Glendale. The place was full and the movie was awesome. The placed buzzed after the opening sequence.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Aug 13, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I may have seen it there since I still lived in Glendale
it was quite a ride, never saw a movie like that before.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I also saw it at the Alex
It was a double feature with Clash of the Titans, which is actually the movie my mom was taking me and my friends to see (of course, I was 6 at the time).
The new COTT sucked
which was shocking in this day and age of CGI.
The thing about Marvel movies which sets them apart is that when they are done right, the repartee combined with the action/CGI is at an enjoyable level and does a good job of representing why the comics were fun to read in the first place.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I loved Clash Of The Titans
The acting sucked, but it was all about the action there. Also, it wasn’t crappy like Avatar was.
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
Not a CGI fan at all
just give me some good old fashioned models.
Hell, I’ll even take a puppet or two.
about Hough
if he’s so good with pitchers(and I believe he is) why isn’t he a major league pitching coach? Does he just like dealing with younger players more?
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
If he's so good
why does Ethan Martin suck
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
He wore ear plugs
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Haha.
I would have also accepted, Jansen is too tall to hear Hough. :)
by Eric Stephen on Aug 13, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Probably doesn't want to travel too much
He lives in Yorba Linda
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
teams that could be broxton matches this offseason..
redsox
drays
white sox
angels
braves
phillies
cards
I was thinking about that on the way home
from work last night. I had every team you have listed along with the 6th best organization in baseball and the Twins. Not sure how Joe Nathan is going to react and they may want to get out of paying him after surgery.
i only included teams
that i feel will be playoff contenders next year and could use an elite bullpen arm. If you’re a smart GM, you arent going to fork over ton of money for a closer if you’re not playoff bound.
The thing with
closers is that they have a really short run of it. It is worse than being a RB in the NFL.
That is why Rivera and Hoffman (pre2009) are so valueable. I am dumping Brox this winter if I am the Gm. I love that dude, but we need to move on and get another, cheaper option. He will cost us out the ass in 2 years.
I still say he can put together a huge first half next year and we can move him to a team in the hunt at the deadline for a pretty big haul.
The White Sox don’t have any players we’d really want for Broxton, so I would throw them out.
The Red Sox have an overrated farm system, so I wouldn’t want to deal with them.
The Rays could give us some great players or prospects.
The Angels could give us Mike Trout for him :)
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
There’s no reason not to consider Viceido+ , or Kalish+, for Brox.
I don’t think we match up well with the Angels. Rays would be intriguing if they would be willing to part with Hellboy.
Broxton
for Flowers/Viceido gives us a slugging catcher, and young 3rd baseman but the White Sox have three closer candidates. They have zero need for Broxton.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
is that
the dude with the Fu Manchu stache?
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Kemp/Broxton for Braun
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
A local boy
team starting with
1st – Braun
3rd – Moustakas
LF – Stanton
Fill it in, I’m putting Braun at 1st because that is where he should play.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Braun is Paul's defensive equal?
The notion of ether Kemp or Broxton being traded?
One of the only reasons this is even considered is because we’ve slurped McCourt’s Kool Aid and have fallen into the belief there is a shortage of $$$ for Major League talent?
Geez,why are we stuck with this clown as an owner?
Why Bud, Whyyyyy?
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
1988
just like the Giants are still paying for 54
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Screw that deal
Kind of…Ok now the idea is already growing on me…but it seems like so much to give up for one guy…How about:
Kemp/Broxton/Withrow/Eovaldi
Braun/Lawrie
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
Don't know if you watch the show, but here's a Simpson quote for you
Bart: From A=Apple to Z=Zebra, Baby’s First Pop-Up Book is 26 pages of alphabetic adventure!
Ms. Krabappel: Bart, are you telling me you read a book intended for Pre Schoolers?
Bart: Well….most of it.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 13, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I loved watching Joe Namath tell Sanchez how to take a snap. Yeah, you don’t know it all you punk. ha! And Joe Namath’s nose is huge.
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
by delias man on Aug 13, 2010 9:47 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
sanchez asked if joe had a lot of fun back in the day.
He deadpanned “sure, we had some fun on the field, all business off the field” hilarious.
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
Joe Namath as a Ram
man, if only his knees had not been made of pudding. Even then he had the quick release, but God, he could barely move.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Imagine this trade: Dodger Stadium for Citizen’s Bank Ballpark? Team increases dingers rate. Pitchers’ HR/9 rate go up, but only marginally, because they own so much. Bullpen still sucks, but the team can score more runs to make up for it.
Jamey Carroll, Scott Podsednik and Ryan Theriot can even pitch in with one marginal home run per year.
http://www.dingersblog.com
Nah, Kemp's getting traded.
A coaching staff that doesn’t trust him, and benches him to suit their fancy, and a GM who publicly called him out, and who prefers gritty scrappy guys to actual talent.
If you’re not making wholesale changes, you’re not saving this relationship.
I sure hope you're wrong
because I can’t imagine Kemp getting traded for anything useful. I don’t know who’s out there like this.. but it would be, say, a old, overpriced 3B putting up an average season, who is a FA after 2011. There’ll be a couple of minor leaguers thrown in, but not top guys. Blake will move to LF and Podsednick will be slated as the CF.
The Omar Moreno of this blog
by Humma Kavula on Aug 13, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Big Haul for Kemp
considering his skills and contract. Any team can afford him. As someone said above maybe the Braves are the team that can make the right deal.
A package of Kemp/Broxton to the Braves fills their void for CF/Closer.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Kemp for Hanson or Jurrjens straight up, go. Kershaw, Hanson, Billingsley would be a ridiculous under 26 staff. I still don’t like the idea of sending Kemp anywhere without a replacement in the field. My worst fear is not losing a game, or a dozen games, or losing Matt Kemp. My worst fear is becoming the Giants.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
Kemp/Broxton is going to have a huge price tag. Assuming the Braves aren’t moving Heyward or Hanson, do they have enough close to MLB talent in their system to swing that deal.
I hope so.
But Kemp’s value is low right now. “Uncoachable.” “All the promise, but keeps making rookie mistakes.” Gold Glove and Silver Slugger last year, but a step backwards this year.
He is the anti-Ethier. His perceived value is much less than his actual value. Unless I’m wrong… I hope there’s a big haul for him, but I will believe it when I see it.
The Omar Moreno of this blog
by Humma Kavula on Aug 13, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I would think some GMs will think that way and some will not
But they will all try to drive an extra-hard bargain for the reasons you mention.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Aug 13, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess where this is coming from is that I don’t know if I believe that Colletti can put Kemp on the block and then pull him back if no one is willing to meet his price. I fear that at a certain point, Colletti will feel that trading Kemp is a foregone conclusion. He’ll explore the market, he’ll see the kinds of deals that are out there, and instead of saying, y’know what, I think we’ll just keep him, he’ll pull the trigger on the best deal out there, which won’t be nearly worth Kemp’s value.
The Omar Moreno of this blog
by Humma Kavula on Aug 13, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s like Milton Bradley, only this time the Dodgers threw the bottle. :)
by Eric Stephen on Aug 13, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fucking Stupid
Geez, how many games did he log as a pro on the field?
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Same number as
Theo Epstein and Brian Cashman.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Aug 13, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
i was going to say Campanis, but he has played in 7 games!
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
I was going to go for Branch Rickey
but he played in the 19-oughts, for the Browns and for what would become the Yankees.
I knew Campanis played quite a bit in the minors, including with Jackie Robinson.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Aug 13, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I am not a Branch Rickey fan, so
I did not want to count him.
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
Depo
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Pretty sure more GM's never played the game then played the game
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
No.
I’m saying that all GMs are stupid. More — all people are stupid. Once we start down a road, we often find it difficult to double back to where we came from, even if we realize we are on the road to oblivion.
The Omar Moreno of this blog
by Humma Kavula on Aug 13, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
JMO
but if Kemp is made available, I think certain teams will do what they can to trade for him. Mets, Braves, Tampa, RedSox, Cubs, Rangers, Yankee’s, Reds, Brewers, White Sox will all be very interested.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
it might happen
they traded Frank Howard too
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
People forget
but we also threw in a valuable 3rd baseman Ken McMullen, Pete Reichart, and Phil Ortega. I loved Osteen but I’d rather have had that fourseome then Gomer.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Two made it back
although McMullen was all used up by then, somewhat surprisingly.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Aug 13, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
back then 3rd baseman did not have long careers
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
many players didn't
Jim Fregosi was surprisingly done too after he was traded for Nolan Ryan.
OTOH, Brooks Robinson, Ron Santo, Ken Boyer (sort of).
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Aug 13, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
McMullen is classic
When I was looking up Dodger opening day starters way back when, he stood out, because he made two OD starts as a Dodger, in 1963 & 1973.
Nothing like 10 years in between.
by Eric Stephen on Aug 13, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
We had some crappy 3rd baseman
between 64 – 72. I always remember trading for a young promising Bob Bailey and then watching him hit something like .229 two years in a row. Course once he left us, he then had some decent years. Hitting in Dodger Stadium between 65-68 must have been hellish. Gene Michael. Yeesh
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
You know what I remember about 1964?
My parents being born.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
The b-r park factors for those years
were like 91-92. Yikes.
I was becoming a fan in 1968. I remember Len Gabrielson leading the team in HRs with 10. Ooof.
MLB was probably overdue for expansion in the mid-60s. Big offensive boom as soon as they added four teams for 1969.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Aug 13, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I won a few bar bets with the Gabrielson home run total
that any Tony Conig leading the AL in 65 with 32 homers are blazed into my mind.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I remember looking at end of season top-10 hitter listings
and seeing .29x BAs in the bottom part. Yaz winning the triple-crown in ’67 and barely hitting over .300.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Aug 13, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
And a bat to replace to Larry Wayne
potentially. Do they think McLouth is done?
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Aug 13, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I can not wait to see
the west coast jack move pulled on Ned for kemp
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
Torre's calling the shots, don't kid yourself
Torre, Bowa, and Schaefer – just a regular old time Good Old Boy’s Club imho
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
To a point
Torre, despite his rep as a great communicator, doesn’t often talk directly with the players, at least one on one. He relies on his coaches to do that.
by Eric Stephen on Aug 13, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
That's my point, If Torre isn't privy to the existing relationship that Schaefer is having with Kemp on a daily basis
He might see anything wrong with a couple of days off with Kemp.
He’s just reacting to the fallout that it creates.
C’mon the clubhouse isn’t that big
These guys are traveling together for how many months on end?
Ther are few secrets
and if you are not aware of what’s going on with one of your key players,
why do you have the job?
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Torre tells the coaches what he wants done
and uses the coaches as an insulator
Many effective executives employ this method.
They have others do their dirty work, so their hands appear to be clean.
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
His inner circle of coaches is Bowa, Schaefer and Mattingly
at least in my perception. (Duncan and Honeycutt were here before and Joe Torre didn’t have a particular “old boy” he wanted to bring along for those jobs, or his old boys didn’t want to come west.) Generation gap?
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Aug 13, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Generation gap?
No question. He does rely on Honeycutt and Ken Howell, though, for the pitchers.
by Eric Stephen on Aug 13, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
NO
He was the A’s bench coach the season before coming here with Torre.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Aug 13, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Schaefer
from scout.com:
Schaefer, 62, was the Oakland Athletics’ bench coach last season 2007 after spending 2006 as a Special Assistant to the General Manager in Atlanta. Prior to that, Schaefer was the Kansas City Royals’ bench coach in 1991 and from 2002-05. Additionally, he worked as Kansas City’s first base coach from 1988-90.
The Connecticut native has seven seasons of Minor League managerial experience and was named the South Atlantic League’s Manager of the Year in 1980 and ’81 and Eastern League Manager of the Year in 1986. Schaefer was Mattingly’s first minor league manager with Greensboro in 1980 and has also served as a Special Assistant to the GM with Baltimore (1999-2001) and a Director of Player Development for the Boston Red Sox (1994-98).
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Aug 13, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
That and is he a self righteous asshole to boot?
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
So what are we basing all this on?
Could simply be that Kemp is a fucking tool, who refuses to listen to those who have played the game about how to prepare for a game, and they are at the end about what to do with a guy who has oodles of talent but doesn’t apply enough of it to make the team better. The world is full of athletes who simply didn’t work hard enough.
Always reminds me of the Wes Parker quote and how he hit so well in 1970. He worked at it, then realized he didn’t want to work that hard and went back to being an average player.
We simply do not know who is the good or bad, or if both are to blame.
You may be right about Schaefer, but it is simply a guess on your part.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
you are correct.
do not know the guy, just observe.
Kemp showed shat he is capable of again last night
by 68elcamino427 on Aug 13, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Except everyone is saying that does work hard enough.
The perception is that he’s just going though the motions.
My perception of Kemp is of a ball player who doesn’t have exceptional baseball instincts due to him having started playing the game later in his childhood. I am not certain on when he first began playing organized ball, but I have heard that it wasn’t as a small boy.
So true
It is amazing how running the bases can be so difficult for someone who did not play growing up. I am not a fast guy, but I run the bases better than most on our team, and almost all of it is instinct since i started when I was 5 years old.
by robotmadeofnails on Aug 13, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Kemp is actually one of the better baserunners in baseball over the past 2 years. He just hasnt been successful stealing this season, but he is very good in the other aspects of baserunning.
by UCLADodger32 on Aug 13, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I've never grasped that concept
he’s now played 1,000 games as a professional. Everyday he practices. I think that trumps not playing little league.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t this fall under the concept of how hard it is to learn and truly ingrain new things when we are older? I don’t think this is a valid excuse for him, but I do think it would be much more difficult to learn this later in life.
by robotmadeofnails on Aug 13, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
No
this is baseball not latin.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
He is not a 75 year old trying to learn a computer for the first time.
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
that’s not a good analogy. He appears to be in the lower percentile of baseball instincts for major league players, in my opinion. The logic trail leads me to questioning his late start in the game as atleast part of the problem.
He could just be stupid?
My first game http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198604280.shtml
Well the ad on my sidebar
tells me Matt Kemp has an IQ of 104 and Roy Oswalt an IQ of 106. Am I smarter than Matt Kemp and Roy Oswalt? I don’t know, maybe Jim Tracy knows.
Sadly, I am not sure
Kids graduate from high school barely knowing how to read. Who knows if they teach this stuff at the upper levels (minor league ball). And if they do, how much has sunk in for Matt. I don’t think it is a valid excuse, it is just what my eyes and baseball instincts are telling me.
vr, Xei
Not to mention
I read an interview with Kemp that said this whole thing about him never playing baseball as a kid is overblown. He said he’s been playing since T-Ball. It just wasn’t his #1 sport because he liked basketball better when he was younger. I wish I could find that interview.
Does he really have instinct problems
he simply seems to have a problem understanding his strengths and utilizing them. Many ballplayers never make that leap on a consistent basis. I don’t think that is instinctual.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Aug 13, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think its instincts or intelligence
I think its just attitude. He carries himself with the “I’m too cool” swagger" and thats probably what pisses the coaches off. Especially when he mentally checks out for a play.