On Ground Balls, Stay Low Sweet Theriot?
by David Young on Aug 5, 2010 12:09 PM PDT
in Dodgers History & Records
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PrintWatching the last two Dodger games live at the stadium has given me a first-hand look at the fielding of new second baseman Ryan Theriot. That is of course a small sample size - and I am no scout - but he looks to my eye like a rangy, sure-handed 2B who makes a quick turn in the double-play pivot. I imagine I was not the only one who thought a couple times during those games, "I don't think Blake DeWitt makes that play."
Defensive metrics are not yet the be-all, end-all for measuring defensive play, but they do help gain some understanding and insight. Courtesy of Fangraphs, here are some fielding statistics for Theriot, DeWitt, and David Eckstein and Felipe Lopez, who, like Theriot, is in his age-30 season, as points of comparison. (Note that UZR is considered unreliable in small sample sizes, such as partial seasons, and often doesn't stabilize until three full seasons. Quick rule of thumb for a full season is around 1300 innings.)
| Position | Innings (career) |
UZR (career) |
UZR/150 (career) |
|
| Ryan Theriot | SS | 3699 | 3.4 | 1.4 |
| Ryan Theriot | 2B | 1116 | 4.5 | 6.8 |
| Blake DeWitt | 3B | 795 | 7.1 | 10.8 |
| Blake DeWitt | 2B | 860 | -4.5 | -7.3 |
| Felipe Lopez | SS | 5137 | -40.8 | -10.9 |
| Felipe Lopez | 2B | 2586 | -1.7 | -0.5 |
| David Eckstein | SS | 8302 | -13.1 | -2.4 |
| David Eckstein | 2B | 2053 | 0.6 | 0.3 |
Theriot has just enough career innings manning shortstop to suggest that his UZR/150 is a pretty accurate measure of his defensive abilities as a decent, average fielding SS. One expects players who are good enough to even be considered as major-league shortstops to be even better fielders on the other side of the bag. On the other hand, players that convert from the hot corner to second base are moving up the skill scale on the defensive spectrum and one would expect lesser defensive ratings. (In fact the attempt isn't made too often; Bill Madlock anyone?)
Lopez and Eckstein are recent examples of full-time shortstops who have moved closer to the first baseman and have gone from sub-standard fielding shortstops to servicable second basemen. (Eckstein made this move full-time in his age 34 season, four years older than Theriot is now.) It seems reasonable to expect Theriot to make this move and change from an average SS to a pretty good fielding 2B, while it is somewhat likely that DeWitt will struggle to achieve or maintain average fielding 2B status. Theriot's 6.8 UZR/150 would be amongst the better fielding 2B this season in the majors; only six full-time 2B are at 7.0 or better this season (small sample size warning).
A side point on Theriot/DeWitt: besides the cost factor, the other thing will be missed about DeWitt is his left-handed bat and the handedness advantage he brought to the plate against the great majority of pitchers. This probably aids him in having a career OPS+ of 95, compared to Theriot's 82 (per baseball-reference.com). Without DeWitt, the Dodgers have three right-handed bats to choose from at second base, Theriot, Jamey Carroll, and Ronnie Belliard, a less than ideal situation.
I leave it to the more sabremetric in the community to assess how big the fielding difference between DeWitt and Theriot is in terms of team wins and such things, and how much that offsets the offensive loss, but the defensive improvement at least seems to be more than negligible.
***
- Old friend James McDonald has a chance to help the Dodgers a little tonight as he makes his first start for the Pittsburgh Pirates against the Colorado Rockies, a team that is ahead of the Dodgers by 1/2 game in the standings.
- I'm behind in the comments - we attended the last two games at DS - so perhaps this comparison was already made, but Russell Martin's non-slide at home that caused his injury immediately flashed my memory back to Ivan DeJesus's non-slide at home last spring that snapped his leg.
I heard it reported by Josh Suchon and Ken Levine on KABC's DodgerTalk that Ted Lilly (the on-deck batter) yelled at Martin to "get down, get down", but I am with those that believe that Lilly was out of position and should have been in Martin's line-of-sight behind home plate giving the visual signal to slide. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but if that would have prevented Martin's injury, how well does Lilly have to pitch in his last ten or so starts to make up for the difference between Martin playing and the duo of Brad Ausmus and A.J. Ellis splitting time for two months? - Last night's victory was the most lopsided for the Dodgers since the 14 -1 win over Arizona on July 3.
- Andre Ethier's one home run, two doubles performance yesterday was his first multiple extra-base hit game since June 8, and the first to include a home run since May 2.
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Good stuff Dave
I agree about the parallel with DeJesus. It’s that indecision heading into home plate that tends to leave the runner prone to injury.
Amazingly, the CBS video of DeJesus from 2009 spring training is still up.
2 Free Tix for tonight's game
Top Deck, Section 11, row E, on the Aisle.
You’d just have to pay for the ticketmaster email fee.
If anyone wants them, email me at JJLACS (at) hotmail (dot) com.
From last thread
I think for Guillen you just wait for KC to release him, then sign him for the league minimum. If someone claims him and they work out a deal, so be it.
also to that
Guillen is right handed, we have enough of those on the bench.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m willing to go all righty if it means ditching our current lone bench lefty.
by Eric Stephen on Aug 5, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
sucks
when your bench lefty is that terrible. Carlos Delgado?
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t it take him about as long to remember how to hit MLB pitching as it has taken Joe to remember GA sucks?
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
Hey, we traded for a DH last year for the stretch run. This wouldn’t be that different. (I always thought we’d get Delgado to pair with Shawn Green back in the day.)
I wouldn’t mind this guy instead
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=blaloha01&year=Career&t=b#plato
800+ career OPS against righties, sucks against lefties.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
He was released by Tampa and never signed.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
ed zachary.
As OB says below, he’d make for an interesting split with Blake.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
say ‘exactly’ in a really thick asian accent..
Ed Zachary.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
by G.Scott on Aug 5, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I got it from:
A woman was very distraught at the fact that she had not had a date or any sex in quite some time.
She was afraid she might have something wrong with her, so she decided to seek the medical expertise of a sex therapist. Her doctor recommended that she see Dr. Chang, the well-known Chinese sex therapist, so she went to see him.
Upon entering the examination room, Dr. Chang said, “OK, take off all you crose.” The woman did as she was told. “Now, get down and craw reery, reery fass to odder side of room.” Again, the woman did as she was instructed. Dr. Chang then said, “OK, now craw reery, reery fass back to me.” So she did.
Dr. Chang shook his head slowly and said, “Your probrem vewy bad. You haf Ed Zachary Disease. Worse case I ever see. Dat why you not haf sex or dates.”
Worried, the woman asked anxiously, “Oh my God, Dr. Chang, what is Ed Zachary Disease?”
Dr. Chang looked the woman in the eye and replied, “Ed Zachary Disease is when your face rook Ed Zachary rike your ass.”
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
Would be cool to be able to start Reed Johnson LF and Manny DH against lefties and Manny in LF/Blalock DH against righties.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
that would be cool
because it would mean the Dodgers were in the World Series.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah probably, it was a half hearted suggestion
besides, he’d probably wanna go somewhere where he gets more than one PA per game. I hear the White Sox are interested.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not going to do the math
but I’m gonna say that if Lilly pitches really well in his final 10 starts and leads the Dodgers to victory in 6 – 10 of them, his contribution (vs. what we were getting out of the 5th spot) will outweigh the difference between the Ellis/Ausmus/? platoon and the production we were getting out of Martin.
Great piece David
i agree with you on everything except on your opinion that Lilly was partially at fault for Martin’s injury. You slide. First off, Jamey Carroll is hitting, how far could he have possibly hit it? You know there’s going to be a play at the plate. Martin isn’t ever afraid to slide as he’s shown when he rounds third base and gets held up at the last second. I think Martin just spaced out for a second and thought he easily had it. I really think it’s all on him. Everyone knows at every level of baseball that you should slide.
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
You sold me with this part
Jamey Carroll is hitting, how far could he have possibly hit it?
:-)
More seriously, Martin has to watch the catch to know when to leave from 3B so he should have planned to slide unless he got signaled not to. He got no signal, so he should have slid. I was stunned he didn’t slide, but I had a better view the entire time than he did. ;-)
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Jon Weisman with the best link I've seen in a while
It’s a Japanese Lindsay Lohan cartoon re-enactment with one possibly NSFW shower scene.
hitting that waiver wire?
Wonder if and when we put Blake and Manny on waivers? Blake to StL or Minny would be a godsend…although we’d have a huge hole next year at 3b
Blake next year…RH can play 1b and corner, decent bench guy no? If paired with LH 3b he’d be worth having around, especially is he can get alot of rest in his 37th year. He turns 37 in 18 days…yikes. LH DeWitt as starter next year 3b with DeJesus,Carroll at 2b…wasn’t in our plans I guess
Can anybody remind me of the terms of 4th option year on Blake?
thnx
from Cot's
3 years/$17M (2009-11)
re-signed by LA Dodgers as a free agent 12/9/08
09:$5M, 10:$6M, 11:$5.25M, 12:$6M club option ($1.25M buyout)
performance bonuses: $0.125M each for 525, 550, 575, 600 PAs
buyout increases to $2M if traded between 10/2/09 & 10/1/10
did they pull him back? or did they just want to make a headline?
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
ah ok
would be funny if the Dodgers did claim him. as you gotta think as it stands now we’d win the claim.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know whether to laugh or be angry about that.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Someone who hates The Natural as much as I do
http://deadspin.com/5604728/why-arent-there-more-good-baseball-movies
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
Interesting article
I like The Natural, but everything he says about it is true.
I’m still hoping for a movie about Jackie Robinson. What a story. (and no I’m not counting The Jackie Robinson Story, sorry.)
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Who would you have play:
Jackie: Will Smith
Rachel: Kerry Washington
Branch Rickey: Edward Herrmann
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
I think
Jackie’s story and name are enough that an unknown could play him and it’d do well. That said, you’d probably need a big-namer playing Branch Rickey though.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
that being said
if they ever made a movie about Satchel Paige, I think a good choice would be Dave Chappelle. Dude looks almost exactly like Paige, and with his showboating attitude, I think it could be a good match. That’s just my crazy mind though.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
have Philip Seymour Hoffman play Branch? I think you’d need a big enough name as the main character to get the casual fan to come. Maybe Terrence Howard as Jackie.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
at the risk of not being PC
he’s not dark enough.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm surprised Spike Lee hasn't jumped all over that
though if he made it, I wonder how good of a light his Dodger teammates would be shown in.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
So many directions to go with this one.
I’ll settle on: “For the one-handed pop-ups?”
by kinbote on Aug 5, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sure I told this story before
I once had occasion to interview Mark Johnson, who produced The Natural. I said, casually, y’know, I have a friend who calls that the best book-to-movie change of all time.
Johnson says, I remember our first story meeting. We went through the whole script with the studio. And we get to the end. And Glenn Close stands up. And he’s bleeding. And the pitch comes in and he swings — and it’s strike three. He’s out. We fade to black. I swear, you could hear a pin drop in that room.
The Omar Moreno of this blog
by Humma Kavula on Aug 5, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
LA Weekly profile of Frank McCourt. Was this posted earlier?
I don’t see this in earlier posts. Long un-flattering history of Frank McCourt’s business dealings.
http://www.laweekly.com/2010-08-05/news/dodger-dog/
People don't think it be like this, but it do.
I still don't understand why Selig allowed all of the debt ast this article points out...
Flying in the face of an MLB rule that limits owner debt to 40 percent, almost the entire purchase was financed with loans from News Corp. and Bank of America.
If I had a nickel for every time a sentence began with "I still don't understand why Selig..."
I’d have so much money, he probably wouldn’t allow me to buy the Dodgers!
by sarcastro9 on Aug 5, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
this was the most telling quote for me
I just know he’s gonna do everything he can to hang on to this team and squeeze every last penny out of us, without really caring about the product on the field
“I would never count on Frank McCourt to back me up,” Heath says. “He’d always go for the quickest and biggest buck. If that meant someone else was left behind, that’s okay.”
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
wait, which one was his son?
the guy with the massive shag
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
ESPN has the 50 most painful outcomes in college football history
How is the Stanford Band play only #20? Hell it is called “The Play”
"Go fuck yourself" -Eric Stephen 6-29-2010
"Oh honey, I'm chalk full of juju" -Maddz 7-15-2010
maybe because it took place on the west coast and this is an espn poll
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on Aug 5, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
uh oh
might be the Red Sox who claimed him then, or does he have to pass through the NL first?
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
A player on waivers from an NL team goes through all the NL teams by record then the AL teams by record. Ditto for AL players going through the AL first then the NL.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
excellent
The more I think about it, the more I hope it was the Dodgers who claimed him, if nothing else to block him from going to the Giants or Rockies.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Would we even be able to block either of those teams?
I thought waiver priority was based on last season’s standings? Or is that just how it is at the beginning of the season until a good number of games in the current season have been played?
i think August waivers
are based on current standings.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
You are correct.
I found a great article on MLB Transactions on Purple Row from February 2009. It says (link):
November 11 – April 30 (or the 30th day of the next season): The club with the worst won-loss record in the previous season has priority.
May 1 – July 31 (31st day of the season – July 31): The club with the worst won-loss record in the current season has priority.
August 1 through November 10: The club with the worst won-loss record in the current season has priority, but American League clubs have priority for AL players, and National League clubs have priority for NL players.
I'm sorry i just still dont fully understand the waiver wire
if Dunn is claimed by another team then, is it draft picks that the Nats receive, do they negotiate a trade with the team that claims him? or is it just a way to dump him and his contract for nothing..
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
If a player is claimed
current team has options:
1) let the claiming team have the player (new team assumes all remaining salary)
2) work out a trade with the claiming team
3) pull back player from waivers (can’t place player on waivers for remainder of season)
me next eric
if a team claims him, does another team have to make the claim at the same time?
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
once the player is on waivers, there is a 48-hour period in which teams can submit claims to a central bank at the league office. It doesn’t matter what time everyone makes the claim.
Once the waiver period is up, one team will win the claim (if there are more than one) based on record
thank you
I again reinterate my hope he does not go to our rivals.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Eric maybe you'll know
If a player is put on waivers and pulled back, do you still have the option of putting them on irrevocable waivers where the team that put the player out there no longer has the option to pull the player back.
Excuse my poor wording.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
ok
So there’s only a 0.1% chance of him costing an extra $4m next year.
by StolenMonkey86 on Aug 5, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I will modify that to 100%. Kershaw will be at 2 years, 105 days service time at the end of this season. No way that is in the top 17% of all players between 2-3 years service time.
When you say top 17 percent
Does that go by stats (like some kind of formula) or actual playing time? Or days of service I should say.
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
Pods. If I’m stuck with bad defense I’d rather not bring in a cancer.
Podsednik at least provides some utility as far as pinch running in tight spots. Game 7 tie game Bottom 9, loney hits a double with 2 outs..I want Pods pinch running to win the series.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
Padilla was concerned a cancer at one point. But I do not want any of them on the team .
DFA JAMES LONEY
Padilla was also largely unproductive in Texas, so it’s somewhat understandable from a baseball standpoint that no one took a chance on Padilla except us. Jose Guillen is having a good season and still no one wanted him.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
Didn't we grab Padilla in August after he was DFA'd?
Its reasonable to assume someone will take a flier on Guillen.
yep, Aug 20. But he also had an ERA+ of 95 in Texas and a 124 with us in LA. We lucked into him.
Guillen on the other hand, has an OPS+ of 101. My point is that Jose Guillen is playing well, so he’d have to be an exceptional asshole to be DFA’d.
It would seem, from the outside looking in, that Padilla was not liked but was DFA’d for baseball reasons whereas Jose Guillen is not liked but is productive, so he would have been DFA’d for “fuck it we’re out of the race anyway” reasons.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
Guillen has been in a pretty bad slump and they probably want to see what their youth can do without shuffling the lineup. The Royals could have an up and coming young team with an awesome farm system and probably want to see what they’ll have to build around.
I’m not talking about why the Royals would want to get rid of him. I’m talking about why no one was willing to give up even a fringe prospect for him.
Now they can get him for the prorated minimum, but they didn’t know that before today.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
How can they get him for the prorated minimum?
If a team claims him, wouldn’t the new team would have to pay the salary?
Otherwise he could still be dealt for a fringe prospect. Maybe the Royals were just asking for more prior to the deadline.
Guillen could still be dealt
but if they wait until he is released, a team can sign him for the minimum.
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
seeing him last night live made me realize how much he runs on his toes
he’s still quick though
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
OT: History of "Madden" and EA Sports
Great read:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=100805/madden
"If your Mr. October, I'm Mr. Spring, Summer and Winter!" - Tommy Lasorda to Reggie Jackson
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=100805/madden
"If your Mr. October, I'm Mr. Spring, Summer and Winter!" - Tommy Lasorda to Reggie Jackson
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=100805/madden
"If your Mr. October, I'm Mr. Spring, Summer and Winter!" - Tommy Lasorda to Reggie Jackson
you can't put it in the header
here: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=100805/madden
How would you define your approach to management, apart from being brilliant?
Thx Toto
"If your Mr. October, I'm Mr. Spring, Summer and Winter!" - Tommy Lasorda to Reggie Jackson
Belly
Any news on Belly’s status. Somebody said earlier that the Dodgers had to decide by today, I thought they had until tomorrow August 6?taking him off the restricted list
He was placed on the restricted list July 7
So today is the 30th and final day he can be on the restricted list. They will need to add him to the roster by tomorrow.
wonder who’s roster spot he will take
by Tommy Blackjack on Aug 5, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
BP
projects an avg. of 83.3 avg. wins for Dodgers.
6.31033% chance of the playoffs.
The Rockies are half a game ahead in the standings, yet have a 22.42201% chance. Seems kinda high…
Braves are a tick higher than the Pads despite being 1.5 games behind them.
I remember following this back in ’08, it was fairly similar. Dodgers left for dead, then made something like a 60% jump in 2 weeks very late (over the course of those two sweet, sweet series against the DBags).
If we drop out quickly, I’m going to pray for SF to take the WC and Cards to take the Central. Cards would demolish SF in a short series.
Blasphemy!
I don’t want the Gnats to make the playoffs… From now until eternity…
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
Rather see them
just miss out by a hair, or get embarrassed in the playoffs, without a division pennant to fall back on?
Tough call, but I’m taking the second.
I'd rather see them miss out by a hair
They miss the playoffs, and their first round pick is unprotected… Which will be awesome when Sabean gives Adam Dunn a 10 year deal…
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
Better GM
Ned or Sabean?
Killing yourself is not an option.
I say Sabean
His drafts are pretty good… LOL on sticking with LOLina for so long though…
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
Really?
I picked Sabean because they have a nice farm system there… I hate saying that…
/throws up
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
You're talking about Bengie Molina
Right? :)
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
Dude loves his veterans
even more than Ned.
It was only in the last couple of years that Sabean actually started hanging onto what he gets from his good drafts.
At least he's actually learned
Unlike someone we know…
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
You, Hitler, Ned, And Sabean are locked in a room
You have 2 bullets, who do you shoot? Shoot Hitler 3 times so he doesn’t see what you do to Ned and Sabean.
lol, I totally stole that joke from some guy i use to know, but it was McCarver and Buck instead of Ned and Sabean.
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
The old Brooklyn joke was:
You’re in a dark alley with Hitler, Mussolini and Walter O’Malley, and your gun only has two bullets..who do you shoot?
You shoot O’Malley twice.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
Rowand and Andruw
The veteran CF contract showdown of ’08. Was like Ned and Sabean trying to out Ned/Sabean each other. Ned won.
we thought they would destroy in a short series as well..
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
Jesus
Who sucked the blood out of his body?
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
Well gosh that looks familiar
How would you define your approach to management, apart from being brilliant?
It's Dracula
from Buffy v. Dracula, Season 5 Ep 1
How would you define your approach to management, apart from being brilliant?
Toss Up!
Which would you dislike more:
1. Phillies win WS for next 2 years.
2. Giants win WS this year.
i guess he did say dislike more
so then yes, 2.
Google before you Tweet. It's the new Think before you Speak.
It's always the Gnats
Not close
/jumps out the window
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
Giants aren't allowed to win ever!!
I would rather us never win again, knowing they won’t win either. At least we will have something to hang our hats on!
"If your Mr. October, I'm Mr. Spring, Summer and Winter!" - Tommy Lasorda to Reggie Jackson
Misery loves company.
I’m right with you here. Though if scenario #1 included us getting knocked out of the playoffs each year by the Phillies I might change my answer.
I go with 2
even though I cant stand the Phillies.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
they have Dodger-esque unis though
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
Their farm system is rockin
At least this way we could have a nice future to look forward to ;)
"Stop exploding you cowards!!!"
I would vote for #1
all day long.
I wouldn’t vote for #2 if Jack Bauer was trying to beat that shit out of me!
I have it backwards
At the end of the day just know I fckin hate the Giants more than any other franchise in any other sport.
That is how that should read!
dislike 2 infinitely more
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
by BoulderDodger on Aug 5, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
they added him back to the roster?
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
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