Will the Dodgers Bring Back Ted Lilly?
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 1:13 PM PDT
in Dodgers Game Previews
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As ill-advised as the trade may have been, it's quite clear that Ted Lilly has been solid is his time in Los Angeles. Ted Lilly and Ryan Theriot were traded to the Dodgers at the deadline for Blake DeWitt, Brett Wallach and Kyle Smit. Leaving alone the prospects included in the deal, the swap of Theriot for DeWitt going into 2011 seems like a huge downgrade. Theriot has posted a wOBA of .290 on the season and has been less than impressive in the field in the small sample I have seen of him in Dodger blue. A sub .300 wOBA from a middle infielder happens, but generally those guys make up for their lack of ability at the plate with elite defense. DeWitt who is also a sub-par defensive second baseman, rates slightly better with the bat. On the year, DeWitt has a wOBA of .307. The big differnece between the two players is salary as DeWitt will still be pre-arbitration and should command a salary around $350,000 next season. Theriot will likely be offered arbitration by the Dodgers, and Eric estimates he will command a salary of $3.5MM next season. To sum up, the Dodgers exchanged a younger, better hitting, pre-arbitration second baseman for an older second baseman who will make ten times the salary next season.
Bringing this back to Lilly, if the Dodgers brass were ever interested in making the July deadline deal look a little more compelling for the Dodgers, it's by re-signing Ted Lilly. While Lilly was added to a pitching staff that wasn't a problem in order to make a playoff run which never materialized, the Dodgers do retain the option to offer him arbitration. While I don't think the Dodgers would offer Lilly arbitration in fear that he might accept and receive a 1 year $11,000,000 contract, it does give the Dodger a negotiating advantage in terms of working out a long term deal (as it would put Lilly in a tough spot in terms of either acepting arbitration or seeking a multi-year deal knowing other teams would have to surrender a draft pick to the Dodgers if a deal is reached.) Ned Colletti has expressed his desire to keep Lilly after this season, and Lilly's number since joining the club have been impressive at 3.33/ 4.11/ 3.72. That being said, for all of Ned's bad moves, he doesn't overreact to successes of his players in the short term. Vicente Padilla was equally brilliant down the stretch last year yet the club waited until deep into the off-season before agreeing to terms with Padilla (1 year $5MM.) While some may point to the Manny Ramirez contract as evidence that the club can still overpay for players, remembering the environment of that off-season and the other-wordly performance of Ramirez down the stretch, you could say the Dodgers exercised appropriate patience in letting the negotiations play out and getting the deal down to 2 years when most people expected Ramirez would get 4 (at the end of the 2008 season.) Perhaps the best comp is fellow left handed pitcher Randy Wolf. Wolf had a brilliant year last season with the Dodgers, yet the club declined to offer him arbitration. Once in free agency, Wolf ended up signing a 3 year $30MM contract with the Brewers, and has posted a line of 4.53 / 5.12/ 5.04.
I'll leave the discussion of whether the club can afford to pay out abitration to Lilly, sign the draft pick, or pay for the team's electric bill to the commenters. As for my guess. Will the Dodgers bring back Ted Lilly? I actually think they will, and I think it will happen quickly after the season. I assume the Dodgers will work out a 2 year deal with left-hander before the arbitration deadline. Lilly will take the bird in the hand and the Dodgers can have plenty of time to figure out where the other 2 starting pitchers, starting catcher, and outfielder are coming from.
Notes:
- Bad sign for this evening, the Dodgers have lost four straight rubber games (vs. Cincinnati, Colorado, Philadelphia and San Francisco.)
- The Dodgers are 8-9 against the Giants this season, and need a win tonight in order to avoid their first losing season to San Francisco since 2005.
- Best Dodger ever, Jay Gibbons, leads the team in September with 3 homeruns and 9 RBIs.
- Get your votes in for Xeifrank's simulator contest.
Game time: 7:15 p.m
Local TV: KCAL
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OT but Vin Scully interview
posted a link to this here:
http://www.truebluela.com/2010/9/16/1693187/vin-scully-interviewed-on-big
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Also I made a fanpost about a Dodgers only fantasy baseball option for next year
check it out and let me know your thoughts http://www.truebluela.com/2010/9/16/1693152/dodgers-only-minor-league-fantasy
Um…
What can I say? Wrote the Lilly/Theriot stuff this morning, once I had the game notes, figure I’d publish.
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
2 Year Deal
What kind of money do you see Lilly signing a two year deal with the Dodgers at?
If Lilly can get around $10M or $11M on a one year deal via arbitration (if offered of course), then it would seem like a 2 year deal would need to beat around $18M. I think even at $10M or $11M for one year, you should get market value out of that contract and you don’t take on much risk if he were to have a catastrophic injury as opposed to a two or three year deal.
Of course the reality of this hinges on what the 2011 payroll limit is, but I’d like to see him if not signed early for two years then offer him arbitration. If he is a Type A free agent, he won’t likely get a deal on the open market any better than what the Dodgers would hopefully offer him in an early signing. If he accepts, then you have a slightly better than league average pitcher for one year at market price.
If for some reason he think he can do better and get a three year deal, then so be it and the draft picks will be headed our way.
After doing some simple research on Lilly this morning, I just noticed what an extreme fly ball pitcher he is. 251 FBs to 144 GBs. Seems like he’d have a lot of success playing in San Diego, Seattle or Oakland, moreso than the typical pitcher (good defense, big park).
Interesting
I wonder to what extent the baseball powers that be pay attention to that kind of stuff.
Let’s say — and I don’t know if this is true, but let’s say — the market for a 3-year deal for Lilly is borderline this year. Nobody wants to commit to him for quite that long. Let’s then imagine he goes to Seattle and has a year in which his numbers all look good but are a mirage of a big park/good defense — that he’s basically the same pitcher he was.
Do you think that 3-year deal would then materialize after 2011?
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Michael White FTW.
Good piece dude.
I am glad my campaign to crown Jay Gibbons as the Greatest Dodger of All Time is gaining ground. Thanks for the mention.
I can’t send cash, but I have about $35 in chips from Fitzgeralds Casino in Tunica that I would be willing to send!
Bob Schaefer ran his mouth on XMRadio today
Per these tweets from Jim Bowden:
To me, he sounds like a guy no planning on returning to his job next season.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Sep 16, 2010 1:48 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
He can always fall back on his job as host of Face the Nation.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
The “rabbit out of the hat” comment makes it look that way. All the other comments I have no problem with. That one is not exactly cool. True – but not cool. I won’t be asking him to sign my yearbook after school this year, that’s for sure.
I think the Kemp and Ramirez comments are out of line, too. The Mattingly and Torre comments are borderline but would be acceptable if those were as bad as the interview got.
But for a coach to publicly punt on 2011 in September 2010? I mean, he’s right, and lord knows, I punted on 2011 (and 2012!) in April of this year…. but I’m not a Dodger coach. He can’t say the same things I can.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea that's how I feel too
That one comment should not have been said. The Kemp and Manny comments weren’t brilliant either. Nothing like publicly stating (even if we all sort of feel that way) something that makes it sound hopeless, for the returning players, and fans, to chew on. The other comments really aren’t a big deal imho and don’t want to make them that way.
But whatever, he’s not coming back, Torre’s not coming back, they’re gonna get a chance to reboot the coaching staff which may not be a bad thing at all, given the departing staff sounds beleaguered and uninspired.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Now that I’m done being snarky - well, not really, I’m still gonna be snarky -
To me, he sounds like a guy no planning on returning to his job next season.
To me, he sounds like a guy not planning on being in the dugout tonight. I mean, if I’m Colletti, I call him and Torre into my office right now and I’m like, WTF?
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, Schaffer should be dismissed immediately.
With the ‘bench coach’ of the team projecting this type of attitude, it’s no wonder the team appears listless.
What a tool.
Goodness, what would happen to a player on the team who would publicly express himself in this mann
Go eat a bowl of dicks Bob.
by 68elcamino427 on Sep 16, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I love the look on the rabbit's face
That look is like the rabbit is saying, “Yeah, I’ve seen it all. I come from magical lands, bursting in and out of this one at the wave of a wand. i’ve seen things, experienced things you can only imagine. So go ahead, Los Angeles Dodgers of 2011…. go ahead and try to compete.”
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
thanks – been a long day and I needed that laugh
by CarolinaDodger on Sep 16, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I like this one too to represent Dodgers 2011
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Man I wish I had Photoshop skills
I would totally take a picture of Matt Kemp getting caught stealing and replace the script “Dodgers” on his uniform with “Rabbits”
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Ha Ha
Is Kemp on his way to having one of the worst SB% for a guy with 30 attempts in LA Dodger history?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
This dude needs to be shitcanned yesterday. WTF is wrong with these people? Take 30 minutes out of your fuckin day and read a book on how to handle employees.
One thing that no one wants, regardless of how much money they make, is to be made fun of or called out in public. It is mind blowing to me that these fuckin morons continue to collect a check.
Fuck him dead in his heart.
I’ll be pissed if he’s not fired by tomorrow.
by Julio Nievas on Sep 16, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
If Mattingly had turned down managerial offers
wouldn’t we know about it? Those are usually pretty high-profile job searches. And btw, he’s a dumbass if he has turned down offers.
I don’t buy it. How many managers in the last 2 years were hired with zero managing experience?
"We were never friends"
Many here feel there was some kind of a handshake/winkwink agreement made at the time he was said to be pursued by other teams. He never interviewed and the assumption was he was being promised the job post-Torre.
I want to say he was the leading candidate for the Indians and Nationals jobs but stayed for some (rumored) Joe-Torre’s-heir agreement. Needless to say, there isn’t too much heir left on Torre’s head or in his tank.
"Remember, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Except for herpes. That shit'll come back with you."
I know he pulled his own name put of either Cleveland or Washington before his interview, but perhaps “offers” was not the right word to use.
by Eric Stephen on Sep 16, 2010 3:36 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
This shit is infuriating
“Matt Kemp is a mystery to me. I mean, I told him to hustle, to give 110%, and he still doesn’t get better. What more can I do?”
This makes me appreciate more how good Tommy was. He believed in his players more than they believed in themselves. He would give them crap if they screwed up, but he was always there next time saying, “This time is gonna be different!”
I wanna see what Kemp can do with a new coaching staff. He doesn’t need to be coddled, but he also doesn’t need to be thrown to the wolves.
I may be overreacting, but it’s becoming more and more apparent that few of the coaches or FO people have his back. It can NOT be easy to play that way, the game is hard enough.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 16, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
If anyone on the Dodgers said Kemp was having a fine year
would that be believable. If they said no comment, would that be taken well. Should anyone associated with the team refuse to talk to the press.
Please tell me what they should be saying, I’d like to know.
Give the easy answer.
“Matt’s been struggling. No question about it. But he’s working on it, and he’s got a ton of talent. I’m sure he’ll get past this and go on to do big things.”
Who cares if its true. Keep your shit in house.
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
This. And I really dont have that much of a problem with what he said about Kemp. What he said about Manny and the teams chances net year is ridiculous and he should be fired on the spot for saying that on radio.
by UCLADodger32 on Sep 16, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s not as though Kemp’s camp has done no wrong. But Stewart was definitely after the organization has opened its mouth.
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Schaefer is a dick and should never get another job in professional baseball. To have a lowly bench coach talk about the players and organization as he did is inexcusable. Say it in private, say it to the players, but not on the fucking radio. I really hope that after the staff is turned over that he cannot find another job and has to go back to A ball and ride busses all summer.
by UCLADodger32 on Sep 16, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I have to disagree with this part
Theriot has posted a wOBA of .290 on the season and has been less then impressive in the field in the small sample I have seen of him in Dodger blue.
He looks like a superior fielding 2B to me. I thought so earlier, and I still do.
Theriot has just enough career innings manning shortstop to suggest that his UZR/150 is a pretty accurate measure of his defensive abilities as a decent, average fielding SS. One expects players who are good enough to even be considered as major-league shortstops to be even better fielders on the other side of the bag.
…
Theriot’s 6.8 UZR/150 would be amongst the better fielding 2B this season in the majors; only six full-time 2B are at 7.0 or better this season (small sample size warning).
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I’ll stand by my point. To my eye, he’s looked like shit. I qualified it that it’s a small sample size and I’m not a scout, but his defense (IMO) is not good enough to make up for his terrible bat.
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
There is something to be said when Carroll starting at 2B significantly enhances a teams chances to win over you.
"We were never friends"
Hope Theriot will be gone after this season.
Lots of guys can play 2b as well or better.
Maybe one of them can hit too.
by 68elcamino427 on Sep 16, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
So clarify for me
To some of us, the subjective viewer is that James Loney is amazing at 1st base but UZR does not support this, and those who don’t like Loney point that his average defense does not make up for his sub par offense. Yet when UZR shows that our current 2nd baseman is above average, you fall to the “subjective” view. Can you have it both ways?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
My point has always been the same WRT Loney; I don’t find first base defense to matter. I don’t spend much time debating Loney’s defense because I don’t care.
Have I been making bold statements pointing to UZR with anybody? I’ve questioned UZR plenty of times on this board.
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
That is true
you have stated many times that 1st base defense doesn’t matter, usually right after Loney saves another infielder error.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I also said it when Loney’s decision in the Yankee game possibly cost the Dodgers the game.
I’m nothing if not consistent.
I really do go back an forth on UZR. I’ll use it in series previews because its probably better than nothing. But when defenders of the metric state that you need 3 year sample sizes, it makes it difficult to take it seriously and makes it borderline unusable for managerial purposes (case in point how would you decide between Theriot and DeWitt when DeWitt doesn’t have 3 years of history?)
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
ely lilly
“Because you have to be on medication to watch this team!”
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, serious question
Considering our man Ted is actually Theodore Roosevelt Lilly III…. any relation to Eli?
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I am probably the only one who thinks this way
But these “employees” don’t work in the same work place as you and me. They get paid a lot of money to perform in a public setting and their work is exposed for all to see.
Coaches calling out or commenting on players is certainly no new and really should not be a surprise to any player.
And really, Matt Kemp’s performance this year really should be called out by just about anyone associated with the team, he has been as disappointing a player without the excuse of injury that I can think of in the last 10-20 years.
No
But what did he say about Kemp, he says he basically has no idea what is going on with him, he’s not Phil Jackson calling out Odom or Artest.
Now, I’ll agree, the 2011 comment seems a little whack but right now, a miracle is where I would put my analysis on it.
What I find fascinating
is that the majority quickly take Matt Kemps side and come down on the coach, but fail to address the fact the coaching staff feels he’s doesn’t give 100%. Or to put in a term some might understand, “he coasts”. This has gone on to long to be simply mythical, we’ve had multiple coaches, not just the current coaching staff.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Are the rest of you on the Matt Kemp Public Relation Payroll?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I’m on the treat people half ass decent payroll.
He gets called out at the first of the year, he plays like shit.
Seems smart to continue to poke and prod him. I’m not even that mad about the comment so much as I am about who
said it. The bench coach, to me, always seemed to be the brains behind the manager. This bench coach is about as
smart as a bag of hammers.
I hear ya but I am a firm believer in treat those how you would like to be treated. I don’t want anyone calling me out in public.
Bring me in a private setting and let me know what I need to fix. People are people, no matter what they make per year. I’m sure it bothers Kemp to get shit talked about him by someone that is supposed to have his back, just like it would bother a girl working at Target.
And you being all for calling him out in public because of his performance is silly to me. Coletti did it and it has helped a shitload. so obviously that doesn’t work.
I just don’t see him saying anything bad about Kemp. He was likely asked a question, and he “kind of” answered it. First he said no comment – then added that Kemp is a mystery to him. I wonder what the question was. Maybe the question was, why hasn’t Matt Kemp played as well this year as last year. Without knowing the context, it is really hard to say what he said was all that bad. Of course – he should’ve stuck with the “no comment” knowing what had transpired earlier in the season between the two. The comment about the rabbit was not too cool though.
IMO, the stuff about Kemp was borderline
the other stuff wasn’t. I hope this is just his way of giving his two week’s notice.
But seriously… time and place. Not that he really said anything bad about Kemp, but they already know the public discussion of him by the coaches has not gone well. Why do it more?
"We were never friends"
judging from what he said above
the comment comment is the LEAST irritating. Manny’s gonna have to live with the stigma of what he did for the rest of his life, but the implication that he was just shooting up every second until he got suspended, then suddenly lost it because he wasn’t on the juice any more is absolutely ridiculous. He was a) hit on the hand, b) 37/38 years old, c) injured. You’d think ONE of these jerks would at least acknowledge those in addition to the other stuff, but I guess that’d be abandoning the company line.
The worse offense of all, though, BY FAR, is the comment that the Dodgers will have to pull a rabbit out of a hat to contend in 2011. Just so long as he’s not wearing a Dodger uniform when it happens- or when it doesn’t, for that matter- I’ll be ok. Way to give motivate your guys for a bounceback season, prick.
Who is Bob Schaefer that he needs to go on a radio show and speak his mind? The guy is a nobody.
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
That's nature of those XM shows
they have coaches on all the time.
It just seems some have mixed ideas about what should be said in public and what shouldn’t, if ESPN doesn’t put Kershaw in its highlights, there will be hell to pay, if someone associated with the team gets interviewed and says anything slightly critical, that should be kept private.
The media doesn’t work that way.
Just to stir the pot again ...
What would be the likely reaction from the FO be if any player made similar comments regarding the coaching staff?
This is a double standard that does not fly.
That and Boob Schafer has exposed himself.
He makes himself apperar to be a tool.
by 68elcamino427 on Sep 16, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
He's Joe Torre's right hand man
how is that a nobody?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Andruw Jones?
Yes, he hit the DL later, but he wasn’t hurt to start the season.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
“As ill-advised as the trade may have been”
And to think- this was the best trade of the three trades BY FAR! FACEPALM
I’d be ok with Lilly signing for two years, provided it doesn’t hamper any other moves that make sense for the club. At least offer the guy arbitration, so the trade doesn’t end up being in vain! (though I’m not holding my breath, based on last year)
On another note, Mike, this may be a total coincidence, but I think it’s possible that Josh Suchon might have been reading the gamethread comments yesterday. Without much prompting, he echoed your sentiment on how the Marlins wouldn’t even entertain the idea of trading Uggla for Loney, as trading a power hitting second baseman for a non-power hitting first baseman makes no sense. (The original topic was a caller had brought up what to do with Loney and Martin next year.) Not exactly the most ground breaking thing to say, of course, but I thought it was funny when I heard it. Who knows- maybe he even has an account here!
The funny thing is
when Juan Pierre was here, you would see these stories about what a great example he was, out early, working hard, never complaining, etc.
Now, you really don’t have a veteran like that to write stories about, which is why you saw a bunch of stories about Lindsey because, I guess he is a good guy and its a good story to write.
That’s what ‘Walking Salty’ is all about, right?
by 68elcamino427 on Sep 16, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
DeWitt's salary
How can you say that DeWitt should command a salary of $350,000 next season when the MLB minimum is $410,000?
Because 350 was an easy way to express that Theriot’s salary would be 10 x higher.
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
So IOW it was an easy way to try to make an argument by stating a number that isn’t really accurate.
What is your point? To be a fucking ball buster?
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Whoa. This blog is pretty good about getting things right. Nxstacy’s trying to get things right. $410,000 for DeWitt means that Theriot’s salary would be about 9 times higher, not 10 times. That’s all. No big deal, 9 times is not much different from 10 times, and 10 is a rounder figure, but when called out, it would be more graceful just to accept the correction, no? Not that nxstacy did it very gracefully himself, which is something he might want to think about.
And I acknowledged the error. Didn’t see the point of the second comment.
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions
heh,
Old second baseman can play the position better than a young converted thirdbaseman?
by 68elcamino427 on Sep 16, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Theriot is 30
He should still be in his prime as a fielder at 2B. He played SS in the major leagues for a substantial amount of time. Without even seeing the two, the going in position has to be Theriot is a better 2B than DeWitt, converted at the major-league level (more or less) from third base.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Question: What does Schaefer do as the bench coach?
Is he the one holding fielding drills? Because if he is, he should be fired for the step back everyone took this year defensively.
Yeah, and Duncan could soon get Manny Mota’d in as first base coach. Earlier I said I would replace Honeycutt, but that was only if we could get someone noticably better. That being said, I don’t think (as Eric stated) the coaches make as big a difference as the players themselves, so that may be a moot point.
And yeah, get rid of all the old guys. I want Crash Davis.
"Remember, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Except for herpes. That shit'll come back with you."
If people want hitting coaches fired, I see no reason whatsoever why Honeycutt should be fired.
If we’re penalizing the hitting coach for the poor hitting, the pitching coach should be rewarded for the outstanding pitching.
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
What does he do today?
Embarasses his employer (Dodgers) and his boss (Torre) and the people he has been assigned to coach?
by 68elcamino427 on Sep 16, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Larry Bowa
was the guy I always saw hitting infield during batting practice. They don’t do any teaching at this level, they simply practice.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I think back in the DeWitt lovefest
Bowa was quoted in saying how DeWitt and I think Hu would be out working on groundballs before the rest of the team arrived.
Working is different then teaching
some players work much harder then others. Just saying I didn’t see any coaches out in the field saying do this, or that. They simply hit the balls and the players made the plays. Is the hitting coach doing anything during practice? Not that I saw, they simply stand behind the cage and watch.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I did see Mattingly
throwing balls to Kemp in the cage before the BP groups started and he was saying things to Kemp, but I wasn’t close enough to hear what they were.
The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
The Eli Broad Legend lives on in a today's TJ chat
Tom (Vegas)
Hello Tony.There’s some interesting coverage (in addition to your own) about the McCourt trial online and in print. But one element that seems to not get covered is how MLB allowed McCourt to buy the team in such a leveraged manner. I know there are rules about debt/equity ratios. Do you know of any reporting to this end, or do you plan to? Any comment on this subject?
Tony Jackson (6:09 PM)
Tom, from everything I have been told over the past several years, Bud Selig pushed to have the McCourts approved as buyers for the Dodgers. Their primary competition was a group headed by Eli Broad, the local real estate developer/home builder. The Broad group included a handful of investors, including Peter O’Malley, and there may have been some lingering bad feelings between Selig, who had been a small-market owner (Brewers) and O’Malley, whose family had owned the big-market Dodgers. Most of that is just speculation though. I don’t know that any of it has ever been definitively proven.
Most of that is just speculation though. I don’t know that any of it has ever been definitively proven.
Um, ya think?
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Giants Lineup
Renteria SS
F Sanchez 2B
Huff 1B
Posey C
Burrell LF
Uribe 3B
Guillen RF
Rowand CF
J. Sanchez P
Given our luck, for the Dodgers 2011 the "rabbit out of the hat" would probably go more like this
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
pulling a lion out of a hat is better than a rabbit!
but really, given our luck, shouldn’t it just be an empty top hat?
Well I just picture the surprise lion eating everyone on the team
but maybe that’s just a bit negative.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Ya Underdog, have you decided whether you're going or not?
I’ll be representing in all my Dodger Blue glory
I am just guessing here
do you buy overpriced ballpark food or get some cool asian style sandwiches to bring into the stadium (actually I can’t remember if you can bring food inside)
My favorite thing about the SF park
My in-laws live in Marin. We catch the ferry from Larkspur Landing and it lets you off right at the stadium. That’s terrific.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Doesn't look good,
my friend flaked on me. :-(
Unless Mr. F comes through with some surprise tickets I’ll probably just be watching at home in my man-cave ;-) Where I can wear all the blue I want and not have to deal with assholes.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Must have been the wrong hat
Now here’s something we hope you’ll really like.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Michael
Angel eyes: There are continuing vibes that the Angels will put Mike Napoli on the market this winter. And he could be a major attraction, after a season in which he’s on pace to hit a career-high 27 homers.
I know he writes a lot, but is Jayson Stark more Olney/Rosenthal or is he more, well, I can’t think of anyone who is generally write and only posts things from sources he’s sure of. Peter Gammons?
"Remember, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Except for herpes. That shit'll come back with you."
I’m sure he will be on the market. Napoli has complained about lack of playing time and the club put him on waivers at the end of the year.
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I still like the idea of Ethier for Santana and Napoli.
"Remember, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Except for herpes. That shit'll come back with you."
So we'd be down to Kemp as our only "legitimate" outfielder?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I figure finding 2 OF and 2SP is a lot easier than finding 1OF, 3SP and an offensive catcher.
"Remember, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Except for herpes. That shit'll come back with you."
There is a reason
that Scoscia plays one of the worst hitting catchers in baseball instead of Napoli. We’d still need a catcher if we traded for Napoli.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
don't forget
Dodgers also need an offensive first baseman.
And an offensive third baseman.
And an entire bullpen.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
baby steps.
At least Santana is signed through 2012 with a 2013 option. And Napoli has 2 years of arbitration left. The Angels just seem like one of the few teams that could pay Ethier in a year or two and also had the need. If it was the Angels, there aren’t many moves they could make.
I’m not advocating this, but I do think it’s a half decent fit.
If I got Napoli, I would also try to get Chris Ianetta, but that’s just me.
"Remember, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Except for herpes. That shit'll come back with you."
I like the addition of Santana to the rotation
and I’d simply put Napoli at 1st base. Still we’d need to find outfielders and just adding Napoli is not going to be to address our offensive woes.
After reading Jon Weisman’s breakdown of the team, this team may simply need to be blown up.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Did Jon post that today? Eh, I’ll go look when I get home. My firewall doesn’t like anything that says ESPN on it. I think it’s the smarter than I am.
"Remember, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Except for herpes. That shit'll come back with you."
He didn't say they should be blown up
but 2011 is not a pleasant picture.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
blown up
2011 looks ugly right now, no doubt about it. But blowing the team up is a worst-case scenario. We may be there, but every time I’ve started to type that in a comment here, I’ve deleted it.
Honestly, I’m not sure if the team should be blown up or not. Blowing the team up should only be done if awful, awful teams in the near future would bring out the next great Dodger team that much faster than sitting in mediocrity for a while.
I don’t know if that’s true. Even if it is, blowing up the team this offseason will mean cutting bait, at their lowest-ever trade value, on players we liked one year ago.
That said, things already look ugly for next year and chasing 81 wins is not a good use of resources.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmm
thinking about this. If I’m talking about blowing up the team, the guy I’m talking about trading is Ethier. Maybe Kemp too, but let’s start with Ethier.
The reason you DON’T trade Ethier is if you think Ethier can play OF on the next great Dodger team. That leads to a number of questions, which boil down to this: what is Ethier’s window as Dodger? Can you sign him up for a couple of his FA years at a discount? Or is he going to ride it out and cash in as quickly as he can?
If Ethier is going to go after 2012, I think you let him go right now. If he can be around in 2013-14 at a reasonable price AND you think he’ll be a good enough player in those years, then keep him around.
And if you let Ethier go right now, then there is no reason to keep Loney, or Martin, or Broxton, or Furcal, or……………..
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree to an extent
If we are going to blow the team up, I would trade Ethier and Broxton right away. I would keep Kemp in the hopes that 1-2 years from now we are back in the hunt and he has his hitting issues corrected. If it were up to me, and I realize it isn’t, I would not trade Kemp, Bills, Kershaw, or Jansen. Everyone else is expendable if we are blowing up the team.
could just be conventional wisdom
since Scioscia seems to have a hate on for Napoli. they also have Conger coming up to compete with Mathis for PT. If they got another DH they might as well get rid of Napoli if they can get a good return.
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on Sep 16, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Does Carlos Ruiz have options left?
Because if he does, here’s what I want to do:
Trade Ethier for Ruiz.
Send Ruiz to Ogden.
FUCK YOU RUIZ
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Trade Ethier for Ruiz.
Send Ruiz to Ogden.Sell Ruiz to the Hiroshima Carp.
FUCK YOU RUIZ
"Remember, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Except for herpes. That shit'll come back with you."
Nah, we gotta keep him in the organization
The Carp can just sell him back to the Phillies.
Send him someplace he really doesn’t want to go. Utah, rookie ball, sounds just about right.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Dodgers Lineup
Furcal SS
Theriot 2B
Blake 3B
Kemp CF
Loney 1B
Mitchell LF
Johnson RF
Barajas C
Lilly P
I am Teri
Not only will Mitchell hit, but Barajas will stop all runners attempting to steal bases in their tracks!
Charlie Morton starting for the Pirates.
1-11 9.05 ERA
Seems smart to continue to run him out there.
Actually his peripherals are not that bad
he is the kind of guy you do run out there. In time Mr. Morton will be doing the same kind of work that made some want to trade for Maholm.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
As true as that may be, they lose everytime he pitches. Well, except 1.
13 starts and in 7 of them he has given up 5 or more earned runs seems like he is bad at baseball.
As Mr. White would say his xFIP is 4.55
and his ERA is not indicative of the bad luck he’s had this year.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Dodgers since 1920 to PLAY a game at 1B, 3B, and OF in their first season: Mike Marshall (1981), Joel Guzman (2006), Russ Mitchell (2010)
Mitchell is the only one to start at all 3
and with that
I’m out for the night. Beat the fuckers for me, boys.
by Eric Stephen on Sep 16, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
So I checked in on Immune Kemp
and yes, he has the worst stolen base % for any LA Dodger who has been caught stealing at least 15 times. But he’s not alone, he’s tied right now with the great Toy Cannon. I guess I forgot that part of the Cannon’s game. Of course the much maligned Juan Pierre had the best stolen base %. You may wonder why Davy Lopes is not on this list very much. Can you guess why?
Player SB CS Sb% Year Age
Jim Wynn 18 15 54.55% 1974 32
Matt Kemp 18 15 54.55% 2010 25
Brett Butler 38 28 57.58% 1991 34
Jose Offerman 23 16 58.97% 1992 23
Maury Wills 38 24 61.29% 1966 33
Maury Wills 25 15 62.50% 1969 36
Steve Sax 34 19 64.15% 1984 24
Steve Sax 56 30 65.12% 1983 23
Juan Samuel 38 20 65.52% 1990 29
Brett Butler 41 21 66.13% 1992 35
Brett Butler 39 19 67.24% 1993 36
Maury Wills 40 19 67.80% 1963 30
Raul Mondesi 32 15 68.09% 1997 26
Davey Lopes 36 16 69.23% 1973 28
Eric Young 51 22 69.86% 1999 32
Maury Wills 35 15 70.00% 1961 28
Steve Sax 40 17 70.18% 1986 26
Steve Sax 49 19 72.06% 1982 22
Maury Wills 94 31 75.20% 1965 32
Maury Wills 53 17 75.71% 1964 31
Davey Lopes 59 18 76.62% 1974 29
Juan Pierre 64 15 81.01% 2007 29
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
He was a wee lad who packed a lot of punch
by Eric Stephen on Sep 16, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
He was 5'8 and had tremendous power
his base stats don’t impress until you realize he was hitting home runs in the Astrodome.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
And more
http://www.truebluela.com/2008/3/11/183742/279
I guess hard to tell he was my favorite player:)
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
That one is good too.
I was shocked to read that Eric’s favorite player is Eddie Murray. I had Eric pegged as a Mike Scoscia guy.
This might help
http://www.truebluela.com/2007/12/31/19214/691
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Wow- Tripon getting ink in the LA Times!
(even if it wasn’t completely cited)
Today’s Quote of the Day: OK, I don’t actually do a quote of the day feature, but this one was too good not to pass along. It comes courtesy of Eric Stephen at Truebluela.com, and he asks:
Could Matt Kemp steal on the Dodgers?
A: Lolo Ferrari
(And, NO, I don’t find that attractive btw. Kind of frightening)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
She must have horrible back problems
With those two basketballs in front
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
But here it is again for the scroll-lazy ;-)
Furcal SS
Theriot 2B
Blake 3B
Kemp CF
Loney 1B
Mitchell LF
Johnson RF
Barajas C
Lilly P
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
he's been traded for ruiz
Ruiz will be in Ogden tomorrow
fuck you ruiz
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 16, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Even tho he's been swinging the bat better he doesn't fare well against lefties
of which Sanchez is a good one. Loney is the only (sacrificial) lefty in that lineup. Other than Lilly.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
i tried to z through it, but too many comments, hahaha
by giant4life83 on Sep 16, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
There are a shitload of them
understandable.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Peter O'Malley says McCourt should sell Dodgers
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-0917-dodgers-omalley-20100917,0,2680059.story
New piece from Bill Shaikin.
Posted without comment.
Except to say Molly Knight just had a happy tweetgasm about it.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Yikes
“Frank has made it abundantly clear he is the long-term owner of the Dodgers,” Sugerman said, “and he looks forward to the day when his four boys own and operate the team.”
by Julio Nievas on Sep 16, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Have not read this shit because I don’t really care, but who gives a shit what Peter O’Malley says? Particularly, why would Frank care?
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with Mike in this sense
Average fan doesn’t care unless they want new owners. Now, if the LA Times begins to write daily about this, they could make their cause of the year, well it could get kind of chilly.
Also, I don’t expect next week’s cross-examination of Jamie to go very well for her so that will probably makes things worst.
As for me
If Peter O’Malley really cared (and I say this somewhat tongue in cheek), he would not have sold the team to Fox, he would have waited for a local owner group.
Mr. O'Malley is stating the obvious
For many, McCourt has no credibility as an owner.
He and his wife are an embarassment.
The McCourts do need to sell the team.
ASAP
by 68elcamino427 on Sep 16, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I did have that thought as well
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
A great point which he never explained
While I am glad Peter O’Malley said what he said today. I never understood why he didn’t wait for local ownership.
For those into conspiracy theories, the much well documented story of Fox being frightened by ESPN’s move to the West Coast, wanted a big foothold and the Dodgers and the rights provided that beach head. The fact that MLB wanted Fox also helped, and hence allowed O’Malley to get his money out early.
Don’t know if anyone could have predicted how bad FOX would be in fairness many of the baseball people stayed around with the exception of the wonderful Piazza decision, which came from a Fox person not connected to the baseball people.
I don't know exactly, to be honest, but will say the PR war is of some interest
to McCourt, and to major league baseball. The more there’s this kind of thing, the more there could be a chance MLB intervenes, or McCourt gives up. This is just conjecture, who really knows if any of it will affect anything.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Is what Peter O'Malley says still important
MLB has been slow to move on this but there is no doubt that Peter O’Malley’s statement does carry some wait. Shaklin had a piece earlier that Bud was not pleased with what is going on, Howard Bryant on ESPN last week quoting no on the record sources said the same thing. It will all start to add up even if they all are saying the same thing.
If McCourt wants to pass it onto his boys, he better get a settlement with Jamie and probably find a few investors. If no settlement and even if he wins he will start to get more pressure to do something, simply because of the debt ratio
Devil you know
Dylan: Torre went to the #Raiders’ practice today and talked to Al Davis. Does Davis want to buy the #Dodgers? Torre: “The subject never came up.”
Kids wonder why a monster is owning the Dodgers.
by Julio Nievas on Sep 16, 2010 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay now that's hilarious.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
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