Joe Torre Out; Don Mattingly To Manage Dodgers In 2011
by Eric Stephen on Sep 17, 2010 11:52 AM PDT
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Joe Torre will not manage the Dodgers next season, and will be replaced by Don Mattingly, according to Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times.
Torre began contract extension talks last winter, with the idea of staying one or two more seasons after 2010, perhaps with a move to the front office. But those talks had since broken off, with Torre undecided on whether or not he wanted to return. He said earlier this season that he would wait until after the Dodgers had either clinched a playoff spot or were officially eliminated.
The prevailing thought for some time has been that hitting coach Mattingly, who also coached under Torre in New York, would succeed Torre as manager of the Dodgers. Last winter, Mattingly turned down an interview for the vacant Nationals' managerial position, and the Dodgers declined permission to Cleveland for a second interview for their vacant managerial post as it was reported Mattingly was working on formalizing a succession agreement with Los Angeles.
Tim Wallach had also emerged as a strong candidate to succeed Torre. Wallach, unlike Mattingly, has managerial experience, managing the Dodgers' Triple A affiliate in Albuquerque the last two seasons.
Under Torre, the Dodgers won two postseason series in his first two seasons, two more than they had won in the previous 19 seasons. With the Dodgers, Torre has a 251-220 record, a .533 winning percentage. Torre, who turned 70 earlier this year, is the oldest manager in franchise history.
Torre, who made the playoffs all 12 seasons he managed the Yankees, tied Bobby Cox's record with 14 consecutive postseason appearances last year. If the Dodgers, who are 72-75 entering play today, finish under .500, it will be Torre's first losing season since 1995 with the Cardinals, when he was fired after a 20-27 start to the season.
In 29 seasons as a major league manager, Torre was 2,318-1,990, a winning percentage of .538. He made the playoffs 15 times, won six pennants, and won four World Series.
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If you wanted to be funny
You would now immediately make a second post about Mattingly being named Manager of the Dodgers.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 11:54 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Seriously
For an organization that tosses out Jackie Robinson any chance they get, they have never had a minority (not counting Jamie McCourt) as the head of baseball operations or as manager.
Total snark here but
1. If you believe that Wallach would be a better manager than Mattingly…and…
2. If you believe that the 2011 Dodgers will be terrible… then…
3. You should be happy about this. Somebody is going to get fired when next year’s Dodgers are in the tank. Mattingly seems like a good choice for fall guy. Then, when the Dodgers are ready to be good again, here comes Wallach.
Fuck You Ruiz
Except for the fact that Wallach might move on now.
by robotmadeofnails on Sep 17, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course not. But Wallach does have managing experience, and I am sure he will be cheaper. And it just flat out made sense.
by robotmadeofnails on Sep 17, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
And it implies a whole overhaul of the coaching staff
Which this team desperately needs.
I also agree that this matters little compared to the other pressing needs, but Wallach would indicate a new mindset in the organization and Mattingly indicates to me the same old PR bullshit.
by robotmadeofnails on Sep 17, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not very excited about this Mattingly news
I was kind of hoping for a complete overhaul of the coaching staff.
Me too
but I would like if it started in the front office. The whole organization seems down and out and it showed on the field this year.
Is it basketball season yet?
by S Jay Bruin on Sep 17, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
To be fair we really haven’t heard about Mattingly being involved in the bashing of Kemp. He has seemed rather diplomatic, if somewhat clueless where it comes to Kemp. Also, this is no gaurantee that Bowa and Scheafer will still be around. I would’ve rather had Wallach, but Mattingly may not be bad.
I know I shouldn’t make premature judgment, but its difficult for me to imagine Mattingly handling the pitching staff well.
I know I shouldn’t make premature judgment, but its difficult for me to imagine Mattingly handling the pitchingstaffchanges well.
FTFY.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Need new leadership
I think if the Dodgers brought in a new staff it would help give some of the guys a fresh start. Maybe Kemp and Ethier can reach their potential with a new staff.
Wondering
if Donnie Baseball makes Wallach bench coach.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
Unless he follows the Corleone
version of business strategy, I would say doubtful. Heck, he could bring Willie Randolph here.
by bhsportsguy on Sep 17, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Would Wallach accept a coaching position with the big club next season or do you think he’ll leave the organization?
i could see him hanging around for a year to see what happens
(unless he gets a job offer before then)
Thats bullshit
the only thing Bowa should be the coach of is his old balls.
Why's that?
Isn’t their main marketing demographic retired people? :)
I have a feeling Bigelow Tea will now be the best selling tea in Chicago or New York.
"We were never friends"
One can only wonder what products Mattingly will endorse
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
oh drats (from previous thread)
I want Dodgers coaching this team; not Yankee coaches. But I want Yankees-like owners owning the team. :-)
Two things Mattingly could say at his press conference that would make all of us change our minds about him.
1. “I will be making wholesale changes: I have always wanted to grow my goddam sideburns, and now, I’m gonna do it.”
2. “Hey, Carlos Ruiz: FUCK YOU!”
Fuck You Ruiz
3. Thank God I don’t have to watch Torre ruin another bullpen.
4. Bowa and Schaffer? Sold’em to Cleveland for an injured catcher.
5. Hey look, I bought a rule book!
"There’s no reason I can give you that makes sense. A lot of what I do is a feel thing."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Sep 17, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I still think of all the things Torres gets grief
about, the bullpen is the one that is most overstated.
by bhsportsguy on Sep 17, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I like this piece about it, especially the prediction about Tron Tron found at the end that came true.
http://acrossallsports.com/2009/06/19/joe-torres-flaw-bullpen-management/
"There’s no reason I can give you that makes sense. A lot of what I do is a feel thing."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Sep 17, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Torre has been a manager for 28 seasons, the last three with the Dodgers. It is still possible he will remain with the organization, according to one of the sources, who required anonymity because the team had not yet announced the move.
"There’s no reason I can give you that makes sense. A lot of what I do is a feel thing."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Sep 17, 2010 12:11 PM PDT reply actions
Well
On the surface, this looks like bad news, with a repeat of the Torre regime and a subtle swipe against sudden fan-favorite Wallach. But who really knows. Maybe he’ll be great. I can’t really care too much about this news when, as others have said, we have a million other pressing issues.
Mattingly himself doesn’t worry, what worries my is if the coaching staff remains largely intact. We desperately need a new perspective from our coaches, but I don’t think we will get that if Bowa and/or Schaefer are still around.
I highly doubt Bob is staying after the comments he has been making
by robotmadeofnails on Sep 17, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but I think Bowa needs to go as well. Maybe I’m wrong but I view Mattingly as being a little more foregiving and open-minded (must be the soul patch). I think it will be hard to get that clean slate if one or both are still here.
Brand new manager, no experience? At lest one of those guys is staying.
"There’s no reason I can give you that makes sense. A lot of what I do is a feel thing."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Sep 17, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think
anyone from Torre’s staff would view Bob’s comments as inflammatory. After all, they’ve been saying similar things, and much worse, for most all of Torre’s time in LA.
MIKE SCIOSCIA 2.0
Former Dodger player, prime managerial candidate, WANTS TO BE THE MANAGER, denied…..Succeeds with another team
I still think we’d hate Scioscia if he was the manager.
by Michael White on Sep 17, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Probably the same.
That’s how it always goes.
by Michael White on Sep 17, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
As the ownership goes, so goes the team I guess.
Dodgers aren’t through and through anything save my dear ol’ Vin.
Dodgers aren’t through and through anything
Vicente Padilla and his gun disagree.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Two years ago
Tim Wallach would not have made anyone’s Top Ten list of next managers for the Dodgers.
What has Tim Wallach done to get such acclaim
manage a bunch of AAAA players in the PCL. I really don’t know why that makes him a better candidate than Donnie Baseball.
by bhsportsguy on Sep 17, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Actual management experience at some level?
"There’s no reason I can give you that makes sense. A lot of what I do is a feel thing."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Sep 17, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
A lot of guys fail
who have tons of managing experience
by bhsportsguy on Sep 17, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
How does that negate the fact that some experience at any job is better than none?
"There’s no reason I can give you that makes sense. A lot of what I do is a feel thing."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Sep 17, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Players respect the guy. From within the organization.
A huge disconnect between players and coaching staff = our 2010 Dodgers
Let's see
who on the current team has played for Wallach.
Dodger products
Kemp, no
Martin, no
Loney, no
Bills, no
Broxton, no
Kershaw, no
Kuo, no
Jansen, no
Only, Ely, Link, Hu, Lindsey, Mitchell and Onjean have played for him.
by bhsportsguy on Sep 17, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope
This isn’t Tommy Lasorda who managed many of the guys back in 70s.
by bhsportsguy on Sep 17, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Nothing
but the love for Wallach is perplexing, I think again, it’s more anti-Mattingly (Torre) than anything Wallach has actually done.
by bhsportsguy on Sep 17, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, according to Bill James,
He is 100% Ballplayer and 0% bullshit, so there’s that.
Seriously, that was James’ whole comment about Mattingly in the NHBA.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Although we've only seen a little of Mattingly when he manages
it’s been disastrous. Though to his credit he may have just been nervous.
One thing's for sure
Jettisoning Torre sure helps the Dodgers as they try to make the All-Pretty Team. He is not a good looking man.
Fuck You Ruiz
This just sucks
We could lose Wallach. Mattingly deserves 2 years to be given a fair chance.
We need to clean house and get younger.
Guys we should lose to be a better franchise in 2012-2014
Torre
Bowa
Mattingly
Ethier (trade for prospects)
Loney (trade for anything)
Martin (unless non-tendered and re-signed for $2mil)
and of course Frank McCourt and his stooge Ned
Commit to Wallach, Ng, Logan, DeJean, Kemp, Bills, Kershaw and the farm system.
This is a sign that McCourt will make his stand.
Get younger
biggest fallacy in the game, young teams do not win, core should be around 27-31 and you supplement with vets. You can have a few guys but there is no history of younger teams being successful.
by bhsportsguy on Sep 17, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think anybody thinks the current core is old
I think they think:
1. The current core can’t be kept together after 2012; they will be too expensive
2. The current core might not be all that good anyway
3. Trading away the core for younger (and better!) players might be a way to bring about the next great Dodger team faster.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think that will work
one, you’ll never get players that can play today based on the lower values of guys like Kemp and Loney. And you are not trading the only two assets you have in Bills and Kershaw.
by bhsportsguy on Sep 17, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Also
Since the Dodgers had primarily H.S players as their core, you almost had to think, they needed to sign them to one extension past their FA period to be successful, that is how the Phillies did it.
by bhsportsguy on Sep 17, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t necessarily disagree. Trading all of those guys is tantamount to blowing up the team, and as disappointing as the season was, I’m not quite sure we’re there. If we are, we had better get a good return for all of these guys.
That said, I worry that keeping all of them around is tantamount to signing up for 83-win Astro purgatory.
I don’t know what the right thing to do is. With their limited payroll, lack of investment in the minor leagues, and the core’s failure, the Dodgers have dug quite a hole for themselves.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
The biggest problem
is that none of core became Howard, Utley or Jeter, Bernie Williams and Posada.
Is there still time, perhaps but you really need that to happen or else everything else really doesn’t matter.
by bhsportsguy on Sep 17, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
And I am just not sure
if you can blame that on anyone.
However the Dodgers do have the makings of a better core pitching staff but that isn’t as important as the regulars
by bhsportsguy on Sep 17, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree that that is the biggest problem
Dodgers have no homegrown superstar hitter. I see what you’re saying that you can’t really blame that on anyone… I guess I kinda agree — that’s an awfully high standard…
…however, this year’s performance from the core players — Martin, Loney, Kemp, and I’ll include Ethier and DeWitt — has not only been not-superstar — it’s been a range from disappointing to unacceptable. So yeah, biggest problem is that there’s no superstar, unless the biggest problem is that the best of them are only kinda good enough and some of them aren’t good at all.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
If you trade Ethier this offseason
Humma, not sure if you are advocating trading Ethier or other players, but I just wonder who you get back and given our current GM, am quite concerned who that might be. While Ethier is down this year and has struggled more against lefties than in the past, his HR’s and doubles are still very good.
Giants got very lucky with Huff, but think he could have bombed as well
by wineracquet on Sep 17, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know if I advocate trading anybody.
I have to think about it. But Ethier is the player who has the biggest gap between perception (All-Star) and reality (850 OPS guy who needs to be platooned and has poor RF defense).
I’m not saying you can trade him for Rasmus — that might not be possible, gin-in-the-sky thinking by me. But I’d make that call and see what St. Louis thought about it.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Pujols going to back to the Cardinals is not a slam dunk.
by UCLADodger32 on Sep 17, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
It would be to most people, but they’re going to have to pay for him. Obviously Albert would love to stay in St. Louis, but he isnt going to take a hometown discount. They’re going to have to offer something massive, and by doing so would have like 80% of their payroll in 4 or 5 players.
by UCLADodger32 on Sep 17, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope. They almost have to trade him this offseason. In a way, if they miss the playoffs, this season will be huge letdown because they will likely get less for Adrian than they would have before (although they do end up with Ludwick).
by UCLADodger32 on Sep 17, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
No, but he’s still better than anything they had other than Adrian.
by UCLADodger32 on Sep 17, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Manny was still in our sites
Pods was a temporary starter and then maybe backup, Ludwick would have been more let’s deal Manny now deal.
Not sure they want to trade him anyway. And even if they do they might be able to get a better haul than Ethier.
I guess my position can be boiled down to this:
1. Maybe we stick with the core. Maybe it’s just a down year and they’ll bounce back and next year will look better than any of us think.
2. If you don’t think the core is good enough to be the core of a WS-winning team — and this year should be enough to plant that seed in your mind — then you should trade players now.
3. It doesn’t make sense to hold on to anybody who will not be a part of the next great team. Right now, the only guy you can say that about is Kershaw.
4. Therefore, I advocate either keeping everybody, or trading Ethier and Loney and Martin and Broxton. I could be convinced about Kemp and Billingsley, but maybe trade them too. You might not want to blow it up, and that’s fine, but if you’re gonna blow it up, blow it to smithereens.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Won't do it
Can’t sell that to the fanbase. I probably should write my piece on why the Dodgers can’t take the rebuilding slogan out in public but I am pretty sure that is not in the current FO’s vocabulary.
Two thoughts on that
1. Of course it’s not going to happen. I recognzie that this is the real world.
2. I am also not the GM of the Dodgers. I think this whole conversation is about what we WOULD do, what the Dodgers SHOULD do. Not what they WILL. That is impossible to predict.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Ethier to the Rays
for Ben Zobrist, Dioner Navarro, and Andy Sonnanstine. Zobrist goes back to playing 2B.
Do you do that if you're the Rays?
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think they are particularly fond of Navarro and there is no room for Sonnanstine. The only question would be Zobrist, who had a down year.
Its also a question of money for them
Plus they might need Sonnanstine because they will probably only have Shields for one more year (IIRC).
You realize
that Navarro is looking more like A.J. Ellis then all-star and he is going to start earning some money soon.
Rays might deal Garza
and since they’ll lose Soriano, Broxton might be attractive as a less expensive option. Some parts could work there…
Worst case scenario
We lose Kim Ng and the chance to break barriers and make history.
We lose Logan White, which still sucks even if you say his success came during deep drafts.
We lose Tim Wallach.
Oh, I found a cookie!
Props to Dylan
For breaking the news before I hit the road today on my way to LA
by Eric Stephen on Sep 17, 2010 12:30 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Tim Wallach
Has played in the bigs
Has gotten his hands dirty actually managing in the minors
He seems focused on managing in the bigs
He seems to have has some accolades,success there
He’s homegrown…we need that
I never met or interviewed him but he seems to be just the right guy for the next several years
Mattingly is almost the silver spoon son of Torre and by extension Ned and McCourt.
Wallach screams ‘I ain’t no “Fortunate Son”
Bet Torre gets some $$$ BS front Office job too…all to keep Frank’s men quiet
Release
"Over the past three years, I’ve had the opportunity to work with Don closely and have gotten to know him both personally and professionally and I’m convinced that he’s the right person to lead the Dodgers," said Dodger General Manager Ned Colletti. "His work ethic is unparalleled, his baseball knowledge is vast and his leadership skills have been established during more than three decades in professional baseball.
"Donnie has also learned alongside the best in the business. Joe Torre has been a great friend, a strong leader and an incredible presence for this organization and I cannot thank him enough for his service to the Dodgers. I respect his decision to step aside and I look forward to the day where I can watch him take his rightful place in Cooperstown among baseball’s legends."
Mattingly is completing his seventh season as a Major League coach (2004-10) following seven seasons as a special instructor during Spring Training for the Yankees (1997-2003). He is in his third season as the Dodgers’ hitting coach following one season as the bench coach under Torre in New York (2007) and three years as the Yankees’ hitting coach (2004-06).
"The opportunity to manage the Los Angeles Dodgers is truly an honor," said Mattingly. "There are few organizations in the world with the history, tradition and track record of success as the Dodgers. I’m looking forward to continuing what I came here to accomplish with Joe and that’s to win a World Championship."
Mattingly will manage in the Arizona Fall League at the completion of the regular season. He becomes the eighth current Major League manager to pilot a big league club without previous managerial experience, joining Torre, Dusty Baker, Joe Girardi, Ozzie Guillen, Cito Gaston, Bud Black and Kirk Gibson. Lou Piniella, who began the year as the Cubs’ manager, also managed in the Major Leagues without any minor league experience. Guillen won the World Series in his second year, Gaston in his third full season and Piniella and Girardi in their fourth seasons as a big league skipper. Bob Brenly won the World Series in his first year as a big league manager.
Mattingly spent 14 seasons as a first baseman for New York, where he compiled a .307 lifetime average with 222 home runs and 1,099 RBI while earning MVP honors in 1985, nine Rawlings Gold Glove Awards and six All-Star appearances.
He becomes just the ninth manager in Los Angeles Dodger history, following Hall of Famers Walter Alston (1954-76) and Tommy Lasorda (1977-96), Bill Russell (1996-98), Glenn Hoffman (1998), Davey Johnson (1999-2000), Jim Tracy (2001-05), Grady Little (2006-07) and Torre (2008-10).
Torre guided the Dodgers to consecutive National League Championship Series appearances and reached the postseason in a record-tying 14 consecutive seasons from 1996-2009. The certain future Hall of Famer has more postseason victories than any other manager in Major League history, ranks fifth on the all-time regular season wins list and has posted a three-year record with the Dodgers of 251-220 (.533) through last night’s game. He finished third in 2009 NL Manager of the Year voting.
"It has been an incredible honor to wear the Dodger uniform and I will always carry with me some very special memories from the past three seasons," said Torre. "This was not a decision I took lightly but I believe it’s the right one for myself and my family and I’m truly thrilled that Donnie will be the one leading the Dodgers. It’s time that the Dodgers had a new voice and I have the utmost confidence in him. I know he’s ready for the challenge."
by Eric Stephen on Sep 17, 2010 12:36 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Mattingly will manage in the Arizona Fall League at the completion of the regular season. He becomes the eighth current Major League manager to pilot a big league club without previous managerial experience, joining Torre, Dusty Baker, Joe Girardi, Ozzie Guillen, Cito Gaston, Bud Black and Kirk Gibson. Lou Piniella, who began the year as the Cubs’ manager, also managed in the Major Leagues without any minor league experience. Guillen won the World Series in his second year, Gaston in his third full season and Piniella and Girardi in their fourth seasons as a big league skipper. Bob Brenly won the World Series in his first year as a big league manager.
Tappity tap tap tappity tap tappity tap ha cha!
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m pleased that he’s going down to the AFL. It’s a positive step.
"There’s no reason I can give you that makes sense. A lot of what I do is a feel thing."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Sep 17, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Team’s trying to deflect criticism of hiring a guy with no experience.
People don't think it be like this, but it do.
On a scale of 1 – HOLY GOD YES, how much do you think the PR team for the Dodgers hates their job?
Leading the league in OMGs || Proud owner of a Chad Billingsley Real Doll
I have never met Josh, never exchanged emails with Josh, so I have no way of knowing for sure.
What I can say is — what would I think my reaction would be if that were my job.
Look, I made fun in the comment above, but all of PR is a tap dance. All of PR is selling things, putting the best message on a situation. That is all fine — we take this job because we prefer the shadows, being the person people call when they need help saying what they want to say.
If it were me, I would see that having that job for the Dodgers would be a dream job. It’s a great gig, I’m sure it pays pretty well, and I bet it would be fun rubbing elbows with the players and helping to craft the team’s message. That said, they’ve been put in a terrible position. It’s a very difficult gig right now — if it were me, my morale would be low, I’m sure. How do you balance a job you really want to love, the job you’ve worked your whole career toward, with the fact that it’s got to suck right now?
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I would think if it’s a job you love, that even if it’s tough, you’ll stick it out. Because it’s not going to stay terrible. At least that’s what I hope.
Leading the league in OMGs || Proud owner of a Chad Billingsley Real Doll
I have met and talked a little to Josh
Now this year probably hasn’t been a great as the last two but I am fairly sure that they still enjoy it and quite to the contrary, I doubt morale has been affected that much.
Also
The Los Angeles Dodgers announced today that former American League MVP Don Mattingly has been named the Dodger manager for the 2011 season and that Joe Torre has stepped aside from the position. Mattingly becomes the ninth manager in Los Angeles Dodger history and 27th in franchise history while Torre is expected to take time to determine his plans for 2011.
by Eric Stephen on Sep 17, 2010 12:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Do the hokey pokey
get your pitcher kicked right out
THAT’S WHAT IT’S ALL ABOUT
Leading the league in OMGs || Proud owner of a Chad Billingsley Real Doll
Wonder if Mattingly's comments sound sincere.
Dunno how the Dodgers became the go-to option when the first choice fails. Mattingly wanted the Yanks, got the Dodgers. McCourt wanted the Sox, was given the dodgers..
I think we should give Mattingly a shot. Why does everyone believe he’s Torre 2.0? I think that’s unfair. Mattingly, like Wallach, has been looking for an opportunity like this and he got it.
He’s unproven, but Wallach as well. I just think its wrong to assume he’s going to replicate Torre’s 2010 performance because he knows well enough that he needs to change the current “winning formula”
by Julio Nievas on Sep 17, 2010 12:43 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I think it's the lack of actual managerial experience that's the big issue.
The Torre comparison just stems from being groomed by Joe.
I don't mind the lack of managerial experience
Clearly there is a strong track record of success from those without the experience (from press release above).
I was just more in favor of a coaching staff overhaul, so I guess my opinion will tinge more on who are the rest of the coaches.
I'm feeling contrarian today so I'll support you here
And I’ve been on the Wallach for president, er, manager train for awhile. But that’s without really knowing how HE’D fare as manager either. I was rooting for the guy. But why are we so sure Mattingly will be an utter failure? And btw, as someone who liked him a lot as a player, I can’t say I’d feel good about him being a fall guy next year. How is that supposed to be a nice thing?
I think people get bent out of shape over everything these days, which is understandable given how crummy the Dodgers have been this year but it’s easier to be a doomsayer than to think positive. So I’m gonna take the hard road and think positive and root for him to succeed.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Drunk with power!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I don’t think people are saying that Mattingly would suck as a manager, but I think it has been more of a “I was pulling for Wallach” sort of thing. I agree that Don could be good, but I was just pulling for Tim and a new look to the team.
by robotmadeofnails on Sep 17, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Dear Don Mattingly
Please tell Ruiz to go fuck himself
Please tell Ruiz to go fuck himself
Please tell Ruiz to go fuck himself
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously. Either that, or promise to trade for him so he won’t be able to hurt us anymore. Love the sig, Humma :)
by atomsareenough on Sep 17, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
The only way this will piss me off is if Schaeffer and Bowa are back. So really, I’m getting prepared to be pissed off.
by UCLADodger32 on Sep 17, 2010 12:48 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
sadly
I don’t even care anymore. And some of you know I have been around your blogs for years now every single day. Until the owners are gone and the idiot GM it really dosen’t matter
I am leaning this way more and more. I will always watch the Dodgers, but with the crap we have seen through this divorce, I just want Frank gone…Ned, Ned has not been that bad.
by robotmadeofnails on Sep 17, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
If Torre was on his way out anyway
Was there any other choice other than Mattingly?
Follow me on twitter @Joey_Kaufman
I just want the 2011 season to start already
2010 came and went swiftly (sometimes not swift enough) and painfully into the dying light.
While Wallach is my first choice by virtue of him being a former Dodger, Mattingly will get my benefit of the doubt. I’m sure he is aware of this Wallach v. Mattingly debate and remembers those mound misteps. He’s also aware of the cons of Torre’s management style (but also the pros). For better or worse, the thing with rookies – including rookie coaches – is they are willing to listen and try something different (at least i hope that is true). Despite being Torre’s protoge, Mattingly is an underdog in the management context, has a chip on his shoulder, and knows he has to prove himself. I just hope he smiles and laughs more than Torre.
He's an underdog?
Okay, I approve then!
;-)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Last word...
…and I ‘ll let this go. Throughout my life, there have been only three Yankees that I really liked as players—Mercer, Munson, and Mattingly. I’d be fine with this move if he had knocked around in the minors for a couple of years, figured out the basics of the job, and started developing his own ideas about management. I am pleased that he’ll manage this fall, and I’ll be even happier if he builds his own coaching staff independent of Joe’s Grumpy Old Men. I rather doubt the latter, but we’ll see.
"There’s no reason I can give you that makes sense. A lot of what I do is a feel thing."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Sep 17, 2010 12:57 PM PDT reply actions
This is the key
if he builds his own coaching staff independent of Joe’s Grumpy Old Men.
I also hope he shaves that thing off.
"There’s no reason I can give you that makes sense. A lot of what I do is a feel thing."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Sep 17, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I might be wrong and its totally unfair but Mattingly strikes me as a man without presence or leadership skills….and likely a puppet for the various control freaks that I believe will remain.
Can he stand up to Ned, McCourt, Bowa? Ethier?Kemp? Even Torre ’ll stick around upstairs.
If these other coaches were going to be fired, why would they announce this mid-September?
Its basically Joe retiring and calling all the mngmnt shots.
A fresh start was the way to go
SUX
I think people often said he was the leader of those Yankee teams (uh, that never won it all) he was on. He’s a quiet leader but, at least as a player, people seemed to think he had leadership abilities. People around him now definitely think he has those skills. Of course, those people are Ned Colletti, Joe Torre, and Frank McCourt so YMMV.
oh, I can field this one
Those Yankee teams didn’t win because Steinbrenner was at his worst, and constantly traded away good young players for lousy veterans, as well as good veterans (when Steinbrenner got mad at them) for nothing. Mattingly survived that entire era because he (mostly) stayed out of trouble. No good deed goes unpunished, you know.
to elaborate
“and constantly traded away good young players for lousy veterans”
Try to imagine the Dotel deal every year for about 7 or 8 years in a row. That’s what it was like until Steinbrenner got suspended, and Gene Michael had time to rebuild.
Are we talking like trading Jay Buhner? Who did they get for him anyway?
by Michael White on Sep 17, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah, they got Ken Phelps
NOT joked about on Seinfeld were also Fred McGriff, Willie McGee, Doug Drabek (for an over-the-hill Rick Rhoden), and Al Leiter. I’m sure there were a few others.
Man, how did those Mariners never win anything?
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Managers who stand up to upper management
Generally don’t stay managers very long. I think there is a difference, in what kind of working relationship you want, right the Kenny Williams/Ozzie Guillen is the most public. I would guess Mattingly will have his role but I don’t expect him to make any waves.
I am with you btw in wondering about the minority hiring thing
Isn’t that a requirement? How do the Dodgers get around that? Or is Mattingly half-Asian? It’s just odd is all. I’m not against it entirely and think putting on a fake show of interviewing minority candidates when you have already made your choice is kind of a waste of time for the most part (except for giving someone the experience of interviewing I suppose) but it does seem … odd.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Anybody who will not retain Bowa and Schaeffer. I’m of the opinion that managers and coaches dont have huge positive impacts (unless its a guy like Dave Duncan), so I really dont care as long as they dont shit on the players.
by UCLADodger32 on Sep 17, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I will be the one that says
I am cool with Mattingly being named manager. I don’t want Wallach anymore than Mattingly.
I can tell you aren't a Simpsons fan or you'd say
I, for one, welcome our new Mattingly overlord.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
They shoot hot dogs? Honestly, those videos made me appreciate the stupid in between inning crap we went through this year
by robotmadeofnails on Sep 17, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
man
life must suck for Pirates fans.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
last one i swear:
this is the most wrong video ive ever seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EnZsEsUTjk
a walking bong and animated intercourse.
they really enjoy shooting hot dogs
that sounds wrong.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
Sklar Brothers chime in
Via twitter
Always felt #Mattingly should be an adverb to describe solid hitting. Like, how does Floyd Mayweather get along w/ his wife? Mattingly.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
by underdog on Sep 17, 2010 1:32 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
As I told k3vo
Sometimes I feel like the FO is run by a lobotomized starfish. This is ironic, you see, because a starfish is already lacking in a central nervous system. However, I feel it accurately portrays the STUNNING LACK OF MENTAL CAPACITY.
I’m only slightly bitter.
Leading the league in OMGs || Proud owner of a Chad Billingsley Real Doll
Bitter they wouldn't even interview you for the gig?
Jerks!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Hmmm
well, with my experience as DVD burner, laser tag enthusiast, and seminary scholar, you’d think I’d get further in the process, wouldn’t you? Something about lacking “grit” in my facial hair choice.
Leading the league in OMGs || Proud owner of a Chad Billingsley Real Doll
Is that Preston in the center or on the right?
Hey-ohhh!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
New L.A. Dodger manager
Isn’t he cute and fuzzy?
by silverwidow on Sep 17, 2010 1:44 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This has so gotta be a meme for next year
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
We would also accept this one
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
If people can give Ben Affleck a shot at director
they can give Don Mattingly a chance as manager. That’s all I gotta add.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
You mean the acclaimed director of “Gone Baby Gone”? That’s what trailers for “The Town” keep telling me.
Leading the league in OMGs || Proud owner of a Chad Billingsley Real Doll
Yes indeed
My point is he’s become a surprisingly good director. I dont think anyone expected that with his lack of behind the camera experience.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I was just trying to make a joke
I like Ben Affleck. A lot.
Leading the league in OMGs || Proud owner of a Chad Billingsley Real Doll
Not really
I hear he likes to do it in really uncomfortable places
Leading the league in OMGs || Proud owner of a Chad Billingsley Real Doll
Heh.
That was always my favorite of those movies.
by Michael White on Sep 17, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I decided to spend my drinking money on dance classes
but I am going to a concert tonight. For a 90s cover band called “My So-Called Band”. Also, it’s an away game for Vandy. :)
Leading the league in OMGs || Proud owner of a Chad Billingsley Real Doll
I am REALLY HOPING they play that
I’ll also take anything by the Gin Blossoms.
Leading the league in OMGs || Proud owner of a Chad Billingsley Real Doll
I was gonna say
I’m a douchebag, but I’m a completely different kind of douchebag than those guys.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
What a coincidence
I decided to spend my dance money on drinking classes.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I refuse to believe
you need classes for that Humma. Now, if you were trying to start your own school……send me a brochure.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 17, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
William Goldman chuckles to himself and says
Yeah, yeah, Ben has screenplay experience.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice handle, I like it
12,000 comments but I don’t think we’ve seen you before.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Hah, thanks!
It’s a Les Savy Fav reference. Actually, I remember you; I used to be an old DT regular back in the day, and I’ve been reading TBLA off and on for quite a while, but I picked a more anonymous name on SBN and I mostly hang out on the Cal blog these days:)
by atomsareenough on Sep 17, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Now you have to reveal your DT name.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll give you a clue
I was using my actual name! It’s got a South Asian origin, which may narrow it down some ;-) You may or may not remember, but you were definitely around when I was, mostly on All-Baseball and Baseball Toaster.
by atomsareenough on Sep 17, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
We agree about how bad a song GBA is ;)
by atomsareenough on Sep 17, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
He also posts once a month or so on twitter
and goes to Dodger games in SF every few years ;-)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Haha, hey now, I post on Twitter much more sporadically than that! :)
I’m going to Giants-Padres on Oct. 1st for work. I’ll probably be the only person in my group rooting on the Friars.
by atomsareenough on Sep 17, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Rich Donn—- no, wait, I almost forgot! FUCK YOU DONNELLY!!! BOOOOOO!!!
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't hate this hire as much as others
But I’m annoyed that the organization keeps returning to Boston/NYY figures as if they add credibility to the franchise.
I doubt Mattingly will survive the likely regime change in the next couple of years.
This is from a DT poster - I am unclear if he posts here or not.
Jon-TAFKAJ (9/17/2010 at 2:14 PM) Report Violation
Good interview with Larry Bowa on 710AM……
Noteworthy … (paraphrasing)
1. The Dodgers and their fans will not realize what a great manager Joe Torre was until 3 or 4 years down the road.
2. Bowa thinks Mattingly is competent and knowledgeable.
3. Bowa has not interest in managing.. Mainly because he has a hard time relating to the attitudes of today’s players and media coverage.
4. He and Mattingly have talked about him returning.. but, he’s made no decision as of yet.
……
I like Larry Bowa.
I don’t care what I’ve heard from commentators on the new or other DT bloggers….
Bowa is “old school” …. He tells it like it is …. He’s not afraid to show emotion both good and bad…. He cares a lot about his players and being successful.
He kinda reminds me of a “Jon Gruden – type” … and, I like that….
I do, very much believe that many of today’s athletes act like and are treated like total “prima donnas” …
IMHO. ;)
Jon Gruden got flagged at a high school football game last weekend for screaming at the ref.
by Michael White on Sep 17, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Mainly because he has a hard time relating to the attitudes oftoday’s players and media coveragehuman beings — you know, the people of Earth.
Fixed that for you, Larry.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
No sarcasm
At this point all you can do is wish him well. What is the point in being critical at this point when we don’t know if he will be good or bad, or even what he will have to work with? All this gnashing is pointless but maybe useful exercise for those who need to gnash. I’d rather have someone from the long history of the Dodgers but It is not like Jason Philips was named manager.
If there is one indelible image burned into my brain from 2005
it is Jason Phillips, slowing as he rounds first base, both hands on his helmet, face registering the shock that he has not hit a home run but instead flied out to shallow left for a routine F-7.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I do not know if he will do well or not, but it upsets me to see any part of this regime still here. They had a run, it did not work, that is that. The players and the coaches seem to just be done with each other, and a full purge would be ideal at this point.
"We were never friends"
I think that evaluation is a little harsh
unless you think its the World Series or nothing, I don’t see this as a situation that requires a total clean house.
have people already forgotten
that we went 20 years without winning a playoff game? I agree that Torre needed to step away, but this regime has been a lot more successful than any since Lasorda, playoff-wise. Wholesale changes might be an overreaction too, when all that is needed is a new voice and some adjustments.
This regime’s success was exclusive to the bat of Mr. Manny Ramirez. If anybody can prove otherwise, please do.
"We were never friends"
I won't deny Manny's impact
but in August 2008, the Dodgers had just been swept by the Nationals and needed a tremendous run for the last 5 weeks of the season by the entire team (Manny certainly was key) to overtake the falling D-Backs.
And last year, I think it is fair to say that he was very good but he had strong support from many different players and Manny didn’t play for a third of the year.
To go to another sport, the Lakers ability to get to 3 consecutive NBA Finals and win 2 in a row could be tied to having acquired Pau Gasol is much more credible than how much or how little Manny played in 2008 and 2009
I'm sorry, I can't agree
Manny played just about as well as I have ever seen anybody play during his time in LA in 2008.
Maybe the Dodgers’ run that year isn’t ENTIRELY due to him — the D-Backs not being all that played a role — but c’mon, ya gotta attribute it more to Manny than to Torre.
Fuck You Ruiz
by Humma Kavula on Sep 17, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Well then
using that logic, you have to attribute the failure of this team more to players than to the “regime” too.
I think it falls somewhere in the middle.
It is surely in the middle. But easier to bring in new coaches with a different attitude and slightly less ego than get rid of 30-35 players.
"We were never friends"
Not necessarily
I see lots of turnover and while maybe not 30-35 players will be gone, I would suspect around 10-12 won’t be wearing Dodger Blue next year.
Based on that why not clean house of the players
since based on that comment they were no more instrumental in getting us to the playoffs then the coaching staff.
I’m thankful that Joe managed to lead the Dodgers to 2 NL West titles and NLCS appearances in 3 seasons. I look forward to the sense of new hope and excitement that having Donnie Baseball leading the Dodgers will bring in 2011.
Taylor Morgan: "My abortion was botched!"
Teemu Selanne: "Wow. That sounds awesome."
by DodgerBlueBalls on Sep 17, 2010 2:51 PM PDT reply actions
Manny helped Loney get the biggest Dodger hit in the playoffs
since 1988?? Manny pitched too, managed game situations, played defense…right. Manny wasn’t even a factor against the Cardinals until Game 3 last year…remember that 50-game suspension thing, too?
No doubt he helped Loney get that hit. They were going to make the playoffs for Loney to get that AB with Pierre starting every day in LF?
"We were never friends"
no way
Manny was huge, and was the reason they ended up making it in 08, but to say their success over the last 2 years was exclusively because of Manny’s performance isn’t accurate, especially last year. Plus in 08, like in Loney’s case, other people made it happen.
I am not saying Manny did everything, just saying that the success would have never happened without him. Kemp and Ethier alone in 09 would not have carried them offensively past COL or STL.
"We were never friends"
But isn't that the argument for any team
The Cards don’t win without Pujols, the Reds without Votto, the Giants without Posey, etc. Even the Padres need Gonzalez to keep teams honest. Why does Manny stand out more than those guys?
and Torre and his coaches, the FO
still get the credit, which goes back to the core of the argument, the regime went farther than any since Lasorda, so why is someone from the minors necessarily the best option? We just don’t know yet…
Consider that pitching staff was almost/equally as good as the current one, and that team still would have failed without Manny.
by Michael White on Sep 17, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
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