Clayton Kershaw, Matt Kemp Highlight Five Dodgers Gold Glove Finalists
by Eric Stephen on Oct 31, 2011 8:28 PM PDT
in Dodgers History & Records
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PrintThe annual Rawlings Gold Glove Awards will be announced on Tuesday night, and this year there are several changes to the process. For one, the announcement will be televised for the first time ever, as ESPN will broadcast the awards at 7 p.m. PDT. Secondly, the outfield for the first time has been split into three positions rather than the nebulous "outfield" distinction. In addition, there were three "finalists" announced for each of the nine positions in each league, a new wrinkle to the proceedings.
The Gold Glove Awards are voted on by the managers and coaches in each league, with the caveat that the voters cannot vote for players on their own team. The Dodgers have five Gold Glove finalists, including soon-to-be award circuit veterans Matt Kemp and Clayton Kershaw. Here is a look at each position involving the Dodgers.
Pitcher
Finalists: Kershaw, Dodgers; Hiroki Kuroda, Dodgers; Kyle Lohse, St. Louis Cardinals
The Dodgers nearly cornered the market on pitcher fielding here, with two of the three finalists. Kershaw is probably the favorite here, if only because he is the most famous. Voting is often done on reputation, and Kershaw's brilliance on the mound in 2011 put him in the front of the minds of opposing coaches.
Pitcher fielding is hard enough to quantify without having to wonder whether or not pickoffs should fall under the realm of defensive play. But if they are, Kershaw picked 10 runners of base this year, more than anyone in baseball except James Shields. But for a more standard example of Kershaw's fielding prowess, check out this play from June 26:
Kuroda had no errors in his 51 chances, tied with Lohse for the most chances in baseball without a miscue. Kuroda was part of five double plays, tied for third-most in baseball. Here is a play by Kuroda from July 16, with bonus points for indirectly trying to help his teammate Kershaw lead the National League in wins:
Club history: There have only been four Dodgers pitchers to win a Gold Glove. Andy Messersmith won a pair in 1974-1975 and was so good he decided to see what he was worth on the open market. Fernando Valenzuela won 21 games in 1986, and added a Gold Glove to his mantel. Greg Maddux was acquired twice by the Dodgers in post All-Star break deals, in 2006 and 2008, and he won in both seasons, part of an amazing run of 18 in 19 years for the all-time leader in Gold Gloves.
Kershaw will try to match Orel Hershiser, who in 1988 won both the Gold Glove and Cy Young Award. The only other pitchers to take home both honors in the same season are Maddux (1992-1995), Bret Saberhagen (1989), Jim Palmer (1976), and Bob Gibson (1968, 1970).
First Base
Finalists: James Loney, Dodgers; Joey Votto, Cincinnati Reds; Gaby Sanchez, Florida Marlins
Here is a position we can measure a little more easily. These three players happened to be the top three in the NL in Ultimate Zone Rating and UZR/150 per FanGraphs, though Total Zone Runs Above Average on Baseball-Reference.com is a bit more disparate:
| Finalist | UZR | UZR/150 | Total Zone |
| Votto | +7.4 (1st) | +6.8 (1st) | +7 (6th) |
| Sanchez | +5.0 (2nd) | +4.4 (3rd) | +9 (2nd) |
| Loney | +4.6 (3rd) | +5.6 (2nd) | -2 (t-6th) |
| Minimum 700 innings | |||
Loney and Votto each had four assists to home plate during the season, as did Prince Fielder of the Milwaukee Brewers (Dodgers triple play, anyone?), and Sanchez led the NL with five assists to home plate. Loney certainly had his share of highlight plays in the field. Here is one example, from September 1:
Club history: First base is the Dodgers' most golden of positions, with 13 Gold Gloves among three players. Gil Hodges won the first three NL awards at first base (1957-1959), cyclist Wes Parker won six straight awards (1967-1972), then Steve Garvey took home four consecutive honors (1974-1977). Garvey in 1977 was the last Dodger first baseman to win a Gold Glove.
Center Field
Finalists: Kemp, Dodgers; Chris Young, Arizona Diamondbacks; Shane Victorino, Philadelphia Phillies
Victorino has won a Gold Glove in each of the last three years and might be the favorite, but as the theory goes Matt Kemp hit well enough to win the award. Kemp won a Gold Glove in 2009. But as mentioned before the outfield will be split into three specific positions this year for the first time, which is a change from center fielders capturing 28 of the 34 NL outfield Gold Gloves in the past 11 years (there was a tie in 2007, and four outfielders won Gold Gloves, which accounts for the extra award during that span).
Young is the runaway leader in UZR among National League center fielders, while Kemp was rated below average. Young was tops in Total Zone rating too, while Kemp led NL center fielders with 11 assists.
| Finalist | Assists | UZR | UZR/150 | Total Zone | dWAR |
| Young | 4 (t11th) | +14.1 (1st) | +12.9 (3rd) | +18 (1st) | +1.8 |
| Kemp | 11 (1st) | -4.6 (10th) | -4.7 (10th) | +9 (6th) | +1.0 |
| Victorino | 0 (tLOL) | +4.4 (6th) | +5.7 (6th) | +5 (t9th) | +0.5 |
| Minimum 700 innings | |||||
Here is one of Kemp's 11 assists, erasing Omar Infante in Miami on April 25:
Club history: Dodgers center fielders to win Gold Gloves are Willie Davis (1971-1973), Steve Finley (2004), and Kemp (2009).
Right Field
Finalists: Andre Ethier, Dodgers; Carlos Beltran, New York Mets / San Francisco Giants; Jay Bruce, Cincinnati Reds
This is the most controversial of the Dodgers' finalists, as the advanced fielding stats never seemed to rate Ethier very highly at all. Until this year, that is. Ethier was third in the National League in UZR, the only one of the three right field finalists rated above average. All three of the finalists are near the bottom of the league in Total Zone rating.
| Finalist | Assists | UZR | UZR/150 | Total Zone | dWAR |
| Ethier | 8 (t7th) | +5.3 (3rd) | +6.8 (t2nd) | -8 (t9th) | -0.8 |
| Bruce | 10 (t2nd) | -0.8 (7th) | -0.7 (7th) | -11 (t11th) | -1.1 |
| Beltran | 10 (t2nd) | -7.3 (11th) | -9.2 (11th) | -5 (7th) | -0.6 |
| Minimum 700 innings | |||||
Ethier was limited to just 126 games in right field this year, the least of the three finalists. Ethier had 62 fewer defensive innings than Beltran, and was 280 innings shy of Bruce. Here is a nice sliding catch by Ethier on a rainy night in San Diego on April 8:
Club history: The only Dodgers right fielder to win a Gold Glove was Raul Mondesi, who picked up the honors in 1995 and 1997.
Other Dodgers Gold Glove Winners
Aside from the positions above, here are the other Dodgers to win a Gold Glove, an award that has been given out since 1957:
- Catcher: John Roseboro (1961, 1966), Charles Johnson (1998), Russell Martin (2007)
- Second Base: Charlie Neal (1959), Davey Lopes (1978), Orlando Hudson (2009)
- Shortstop: Maury Wills (1961-1962), Cesar Izturis (2004)
- Left Field: Wally Moon (1960) and Dusty Baker (1981) each won when the award was simply awarded to three outfielders in each league regardless of position
The most Gold Glove winners the Dodgers have had in any single season is two, which they have done eight times: 1959, 1961, 1971, 1972, 1974, 1975, 2004, and 2009.
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AP: Cardinals decline options on old friends Furcal, Dotel.
The World Series champion St. Louis Cardinals exercised a $7 million option on catcher Yadier Molina and declined options on right-hander Octavio Dotel ($3.5 million), shortstop Rafael Furcal ($12 million) and outfielder Corey Patterson ($1.1 million).
Hope for an end?
Per Shaikin:
McCourt would get some control over the sale, people familiar with the negotiations said Monday. The purchase probably would include Dodger Stadium and the surrounding parking lots in a package that could command a record price of $1 billion or more.
The negotiations are fluid, and settlement talks could fall apart at any time, said the people, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the confidential discussions. McCourt has not reached any final decision to sell, another person cautioned.
Take the money and run, asswhore
and never speak the word “Dodgers” again from thy foul evil sneaky dirty-sanchezed lips
tell us how you really feel Jack
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 31, 2011 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry to get a little nasty there, but man, I am so ready to be rid of that fucking parasite as the owner of my beloved Dodgers
at this point
it’s the situation that’s killing me more than the man.
Debt-ridden, Divorce Court, Bankruptcy Bound
The only words I want to hear before “Dodgers” I want to hear are “World Champion.” :)
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 31, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
that last sentence is badly written
I’m sure the meaning comes across.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 31, 2011 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions
KC
takes the ball
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 31, 2011 8:53 PM PDT reply actions
Phillip Rivers
“This is the worst day ever.”
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 31, 2011 9:18 PM PDT reply actions
Pimping my foresite
Oh Josie
Philly v Giants games are often great even when the teams are not
Kansas City will likely be leading their division, playing at home, a place known for being a tough place to play for visitors and they will be playing the immensely entertaining Steelers
these are all games, save for the Curtis Painter affair, I will be excited to watch
by Hollywood Joe on Oct 23, 2011 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions
and this one
beat SD in KC next week
have Miami at home the following week, while SD hosts Green Bay
then get Denver in KC, while SD and Oakland knock each other off
loss to NE the following week, but SD travels to Chicago
KC is solidly in the mix dearest
by Hollywood Joe on Oct 23, 2011 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
by Hollywood Joe on Oct 31, 2011 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
KC’s offense was non-existent for most of this game. I say your right that they look good going forward, but I didn’t see in Kansas City (and fuck if I see it in San Diego) a playoff contender
by Josie Becker on Oct 31, 2011 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
This
Was not a good past few days of American football for her.
by bhsportsguy on Oct 31, 2011 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
now you see why I just stick to European rules
by Josie Becker on Oct 31, 2011 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Only if that were true
The Galaxy would just soaking up the spoils winning the regular seaon’s best record with no silly “playoffs” to deal with.
by bhsportsguy on Oct 31, 2011 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
eh, gotta throw the American fan a bone, and they do have playoffs in the second tier of English football, so it’s not a completely foreign concept
by Josie Becker on Oct 31, 2011 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
The deal
If Dodgers sell for say 1 billion, would he be allowed to pay Jamie the 130 million she is owed from proceeds of the sale? I assume yes, but am unsure.
does Frankie says “One Billion” with a pinkie in pressed to the corner of his lips
by Hollywood Joe on Oct 31, 2011 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
i gotta fealing
were gonna see this one a lot huh?
"Next year, we're definitely going to make the playoffs."
-MVP
Shakin makes it sound like he can.
In a settlement, Salerno said, McCourt could get cash without any league restrictions on how he could use the money, whether to pay off debts, the divorce settlement or otherwise. He might also get the court to supervise an auction for the team.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Oct 31, 2011 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I like wineracquet’s comment, because he (I assume wineracquet is a he) puts his finger on a fine point: how would a settlement work? Would MLB guarantee a minimum selling price of the Dodgers, and cover any difference between the actual selling price and that figure if the need arises? If so, that is a sweetheart of a deal that Frank would be a fool to turn down. He can walk away, pay off his ex-wife, and be a very, very rich man. Yeah, he’d no longer own the team…. but that is the smart play.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Oct 31, 2011 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh yeah
We made a new Facebook page for True Blue LA. Like it, por favor.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 31, 2011 9:46 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
This is a separate page from my personal page.
by Eric Stephen on Oct 31, 2011 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions
that makes it worse! how can i stalk you?!
I pitched to Matt Kemp, and all I got was this stupid earned run.
@maddzgoesrawr @arenafitness
Eric
there’s got to be away for you to set yourself as an Admin for the page so you can post AS TBLA
I pitched to Matt Kemp, and all I got was this stupid earned run.
@maddzgoesrawr @arenafitness
TBLA sold their facebook page to TBLA?
Follow @DavidYoungTBLA
- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
November 22 and November 17, respectively
by Eric Stephen on Oct 31, 2011 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions
'Field of Dreams' property sold
Mike and Denise Stillman have a simple business plan: If they build more baseball fields, more people will come.
The Oak Lawn couple, longtime fans of the movie “Field of Dreams,” announced Sunday that their investment group has purchased the Iowa farm where the classic 1989 film was shot.
The Stillmans said they plan to preserve the iconic diamond while building about a dozen other fields and an indoor training dome on the 193-acre property, turning the land into a Midwestern hub for youth baseball and softball practice and tournaments.
They are planning on preserving the field. They better preserve the corn a good distance around the field as well or it will be ruined.
As a teenager, I read the book this movie is based on — W.P. Kinsella’s “Shoeless Joe.” It’s all right. I enjoyed it as a child but only read it the one time 25 years ago; don’t need to pick it up again.
Kinsella was quoted later describing what was remarkable about that plot. Every writer everywhere is told that you need conflict to make your story interesting. But this is a story about a guy who’s pretty happy with his lot in life and happily married and happily with kids. And yet it still manages to be an interesting story. That’s a pretty neat trick.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Oct 31, 2011 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
The conflict in the book is actually between Ray Kinsella and himself. Hell, the same could be said about the movie.
Terrance Mann isn’t actually in the book at all. His character is based off of J.D. Salinger’s character in the book (J.D. Salinger also was the inspiration behind Ray Kinsella’s name as it was the name of a character in one of Salinger’s books).
Now I’m guessing W.P. Kinsella was going for a book that had no real conflict, but I don’t think he pulled it off. It’s been a long time since I glanced through the book at a pace to where I didn’t actually retain much of it (school report). I could be wrong on this because of that.
Years ago I read quite a few Kinsella short stories. The baseball stories are interesting enough—would a Yankees fan be willing to die if it meant that Thurman Munson lived, or would a Cubs fan sabotage a pennant team to save the world? What struck me about the non-baseball stories though was their depressing sameness—decent guy marries bad woman and suffers forever. The think about the wife in Shoeless Joe is that she’s one of the few positive women in his fiction, although as compared to the movie wife, she’s really almost a non-entity. One of the biggest changes in FOD is giving her some personality.
"It takes a special fan to root for a last place moribund bankrupt franchise."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Nov 1, 2011 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions
decent guy marries bad woman and suffers forever.
That is what happens when you watch the Blue Angel at 10 all by yourself
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Falling in love again…never vanted too….
"It takes a special fan to root for a last place moribund bankrupt franchise."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Nov 1, 2011 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I just hope ESPN hurries up and buys us, mama ain’t gone clothes shopping in months
by Josie Becker on Oct 31, 2011 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Just wait until you have kids. You will achieve all new levels of not giving a shit about what you look like when you leave the house.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Oct 31, 2011 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope the adoption agency gives me a chill one
by Josie Becker on Oct 31, 2011 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Go private/open adoption. It’ll cost you but everything I hear is that it’s the way to go.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Oct 31, 2011 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
If
I had to guess, SBN already owns all content on their blogs and basically wouldn’t have to pay any of the bloggers anything if they sold the company.
by bhsportsguy on Oct 31, 2011 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Isn’t Huffington Post a good example?
1) Unpaid writers
2) Sold to big money; writers get nothing
3) Huge controversy
This would be a smaller scale, I assume, but a controversy nonetheless, no?
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Oct 31, 2011 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of mamas, how did you like that post game scuffle after the Galaxy game? Been a long time since I saw somebody throw a soccer ball at the other team after losing and then have multiple players hit the fetal position on the field at the same time. /soccer
What is The Verge?
It has two links, Home and Reviews.
“Home” just says “Coming Fall 2011.”
“Reviews” is 404.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Oct 31, 2011 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I think we loaned our platform to some politcos
by Josie Becker on Oct 31, 2011 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
The Verge is the new site for the guys at thisismynext.com. It looks like it is a tech site that talks about new and upcoming technology and what their benefits are. Apparently TheVerge is set to launch today.
Here is more
http://allthingsd.com/20111031/on-the-verge-of-a-new-tech-site-which-finally-debuts/
Tonight at 1 am PT, techies who have nothing else to do — that would be me! — can click onto a brand new tech site called The Verge.
Well, kind of — it’s the result of many months of work by the gang that defected from AOL’s popular Engadget tech powerhouse, set up temporary shop under the Web site name This Is My Next and busied themselves with creating The Verge.
I have another screenshot below of the new site that will be focused on news, reviews and features about tech, and which has been getting a final tweaking all today.
From my quick perusal, it has a vibrant and slick design, with a lot of packed boxes, swooshy movement and plenty of content.
Along with the launch, The Verge’s parent company — formerly doing business as SB Nation, focused on sports — will also transform into Vox Media.
So it is the guys from AOL’s Engadget tech site that left, setup a temp website, and are now finally launching their new site.
So, we’re Andy, Bill Shaikin is Red, Shawshank is the Dodgers and Frank is the warden?
by G.Scott on Nov 1, 2011 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
The new owner will probably be…………some guy I’ve never heard of.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Purchased by the Mexican Drug Cartel, the Dodgers proceed to have the lowest crime rate in all of professional sports and win 47 consecutive world championships. Darryl Strawberry is hired as ownership liaison.
*snort replaces *clink as the preferred celebratory acknowledgement on TBLA
We all refer to Jamey Carrol as “My little friend”
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Kevin Kennedy and Jim Duquette were playing the “We know some people that want to buy the Dodgers, but we’re not gonna tell you” game on their radio show this morning. I assume Kennedy at least knows Garvey and/or Hershiser from all the time he spent in the org. But they may know others too.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
baseball is a very small industry – if you are anybody, you end up knowing everybody
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, but billionaires that can afford to buy the Dodgers are generally not in the industry to begin with, unless we’re talking owner swap.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
all the time spent in dugouts condition baseball players to be terrible gossips
it can be like a fucking sewing circle in there
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
it can be like a fucking sewing circle in there
Lots of little pricks?
Follow @DavidYoungTBLA
- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I think outfield gold gloves are based on two things: diving catches and arm strength/impressive outfield assits. Dre may be slow and have no range, but tht lets him make a lot of slidig catches and the guy does have a pretty good arm. Similar to Kemp, except that guy has tons of closing speed and an arm that can throw anyone out from anywhere on the field.
from Wiki
The Rawlings Gold Glove Award, usually referred to as the Gold Glove, is the award given annually to the Major League Baseball players judged to have exhibited superior individual fielding performances at each fielding position in both the National League (NL) and the American League (AL), as voted by the managers and coaches in each league.[1] Managers are not permitted to vote for their own players.[
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions
good info there. I don’t know that writer, but he’s right. Now is the time where Webster will either really blossom or he’ll turn into a reliever in a couple years.
I didn't know
he was a converted position player. Might earn him a bit more time for that blossoming, but I did like what I read.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I watched Webster pitch a handful of games last year
In that SSS, his biggest problem was pitching to LHB. He should be able to improve on that but he constantly would miss with his fastball off the plate and then either walk a guy or end up leaving a juicy four seamer up and over the plate.
Was just reading that, great stuff
I don’t know as much about pitching as G but it does seem pretty spot on fair. Given he’s a work in progress as a conversion he’s on a good pace it sounds like. Next year I hope they do give him another mechanical “upgrade” (or fine tuning) and he takes the next step.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
If they were to cost the same amount
who would you all rather have?
Juan Rivera?
or
Grady Sizemore?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
I feel the same. Rivera might (key word) stay healthier, but if Sizemore bounces back, he could be gem.
and if he doesn’t, you still have Sands waiting to take over.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with this.
"It takes a special fan to root for a last place moribund bankrupt franchise."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Nov 1, 2011 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions
They’ll both probably suck for LAD. I guess if you sign Sizemore, you non-tender TGJr, so I’d pick Rivera and Gwynn.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Nope. Which is why I think LAD would be worse off if signing Sizemore meant DFAing Gwynn (and I think that’s what would happen.)
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
When the Red Sox sign him to play RF and he ends up making the all – star and comeback player of the year we will revisit this thread.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
“Idiot Dodger blogger recommended passing on Grady Sizemore because he didn’t want to lose Tony Gwynn Jr.”
Ya, I could see why that would look bad in hindsight if Sizemore puts in any rebound. That being said, Gwynn has been better than Sizemore for the past 3 years, so I’m trying to not be too attracted to Sizemores 7+ WAR in 2008 because that’s basically a lifetime ago.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Turned on the 06:00 AM news to find them saying that Frank has decided to sell. Now I’m curious what Billionaire who wasn’t interested in the Dodgers in 2004 is suddenly interested. Because you know how many new Billionaires have been created in the last four years.
I guess Time Warner could give it the same shot Fox tried.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Don’t they have child support on direct withdrawal these days?
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
2003: Dodgers were saddled with Fox, and anyone who bought the team had to take on a subpar TV deal for 10 years.
2011: Dodgers have two years left on TV deal, with the potential for a huge deal just around the corner.
Those are positives, on the negative side is that the cost of the franchise went up 100%.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I do see your point and hopefully that will be the huge difference make on the quality of our next GM.
Money be damned when Frank made Depo his GM I was more then happy to cut him slack for being an under funded owner. We could get Mr Deep Pockets but if he hires Cashman and builds a 180 Million dollar payroll team I’ll have little interest in rooting for that team.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Then you don’t know me. The biggest nightmare for me is a team that outspends everyone else to build a winner.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I think it happens over a period of time though. Look at the Phillies for instance. You would just suddenly not be a fan anymore if we won a WS, kept making moves and trades and payroll ballooned over a three year period?
Where do you want the payroll to be with current players on the team, not dead weight?
TBLA 2011 Postseason Prediction Champion
No set number, just never more then 5% of the next highest payroll budget in the NL which would already put our Division rivals at a huge disadvantage.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Have to say I did not know the Phillies had gone that high. Phuck them
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
and he even
gave a discount almost didn’t he? he would have made more in NY
by Dodgerblue8188 on Nov 1, 2011 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I am somewhat with you
and don’t want to be the Yankees of the West. I’d love a 130-140 mill payroll that’s actually being used on current players, though.
TBLA 2011 Postseason Prediction Champion
Get us one championship by any means necessary, then we can worry about trying to increase the degree of difficulty.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
the entire concept of professional sports isn’t sporting
by Josie Becker on Nov 1, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
isn't there a soccer team
that spends as much as the Yankees? I wanna say Real Madrid but I am most likely very wrong.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Chelsea are up there with Yankees
by Josie Becker on Nov 1, 2011 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
right
I think I remember seeing that Real Madrid had one of the highest payroll in all of sports
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
no
they have lots of young developing players they pay a ton to also iirc
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
something about starting a sentence with no like that
is incredibly grating
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
try "nay"
or “negative” next time
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Wild guesses for clubs that spend on that level or more: Barcelona, Madrid, Manchester City, Manchester United
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s a way to rationalize supporting a mediocre baseball team your whole life.
I know I do it.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
But
The second we start spending money like the Yankees I’m turning into this guy
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
I thought reg meant
the guy behind him, with the Mets Suck shirt.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Terms of the sale: a statue of Frank outside the top deck ticket booth in a newly developed, secure promenade.
I’d be in favor of building an ice sculpture of Frank, and charging Dodger Fans five dollars to piss on him until he was a mixture of waterurine.
Not because I have anything against Frank, just because the idea of pissing on an ice sculpture appeals to me.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
LA Times has been counting down
Top 20 Greatest Los Angeles sports figures for the last few weeks. They just named Chick Hearn as number 7. Based on who has already been named, I figured the remainder of the list are Lakers Jerry West, Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (also gets some UCLA votes there too), UCLA Basketball Coach John Wooden, and Dodgers Sandy Koufax and Vin Scully.
Of those, what would your final order be, I say it is the following:
6. West
5. Abdul-Jabbar
4. Wooden
3. Scully
2. Koufax
1. Johnson
The rest of top 20
No. 8: Kobe Bryant
No. 9: Fernando Valenzuela
No. 10: Jackie Robinson
No. 11: Tommy Lasorda
No. 12: Wayne Gretzky
No. 13: Walter O’Malley
No. 14: Don Drysdale
No. 15: Merlin Olsen
No. 16: Jerry Buss
No. 17: Elgin Baylor
No. 18: Marcus Allen
No. 19: Jim Murray
No. 20: Wilt Chamberlain
I can BS on Jackie Robinson. His UCLA career was great and all but his college career was the extent of his “Los Angeles excellence”
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Did he? as I recall OJ was community college recruit.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Hardly noticeable
Thank god for Gary Beban or O.J. might have been a two-time Heisman winner
Simpson led the nation in rushing in 1967 when he ran for 1,451 yards and scored 11 touchdowns. He also led the nation in rushing the next year with 355 carries for 1,709 yards.
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My first memory of OJ was watching him interviewed for the Rose Bowl game in 68 (?) and wondering why a college guy had a kid almost as old as me:)
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Speaking of kids ... things I learned last night
Phillip Rivers has 6 kids.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Turns out Philip Rivers spells his first name with only one L, the wrong way.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
My second memory of OJ was how ignorant he sounded at the time. As a ten year old I was kind of astonished that a college person could not speak. Later I was astonished at how well he learned how to speak. I had no idea it was USC that was holding back his education.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
see I was going with the two time Heisman angle
by Josie Becker on Nov 1, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
never let facts get in the way of a good Josie-ing
by Josie Becker on Nov 1, 2011 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
He should have won two
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
His teammate Kenny Washington may have a better claim. Lincoln HS, UCLA All-American football player, George Halas tried to sign him, but other owners wouldn’t allow integration, eventually became an original Los Angeles Ram and played for three years, albeit mostly not as a starter.
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both he and Robinson played on the LA Bulldogs while they waited for the back east leagues to get off their asses and integrate. Bulldogs played at Gilmore Field, where Loyola played big games and they had Midget racing
by Josie Becker on Nov 1, 2011 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Craig – great high school or College and Pro careers in Los Angeles?
Wendell Tyler
Kareem
Keith Wilkes
Don Drysdale
Marcus Allen
Pat Haden – fudging on great for Pro
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Trayvon Robinson
Duke Snider
Also, Mike Warren and Mark Harmon
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
ha ha
No Mike Stanton either:(
Mark Harmon was a pro football player in LA, I only remember his college career. His Dad however might qualify.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
He was a professional actor in Hollywood, as was Mike Warren.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Right, but aren’t we talking excellence in sports? Neither had a college career that was enough to make up for the fact they had no pro career and had to become actors.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
He’s teasing you
Craig – great high school or College and Pro careers in Los Angeles?because you left the door open. Successful acting is a great “Pro careers in Los Angeles”.
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You old guys are all the same. Bringing up things that happened in the last century.
Baseball is a game, and games are supposed to be fun.
“When I was young, we used to take the trolley!”
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions
I have a vague memory
of my mother taking the red line. This would be 1959/1960, right at the end of them.
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
my grandparents took the red line, in both born in LA in the 20s, 30s
by Josie Becker on Nov 1, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought your memories would be like the era depicted in Changeling. ;-)
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Ricky Bell would also be fudging on great for pro.
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Are Jerry Robinson’s LA Raiders years enough to qualify?
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Favorite Bruin defensive player?
Jerry Robinson
Ken Norton Junior
Kenny Easley
I’m going with Easley
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Terry Donahue! ;-)
Probably Kenny Easley or Don Rogers (a Rose Bowl MVP!). Some may like Roman Phifer.
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I wonder how good Don Rogers would have been had not snorted his life away a few days after Len Bias died.
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Eight
Folks affiliated with Lakers, seven with Dodgers, one UCLA, one Ram, one Raider (and USC Trojan), one King, one LA Times writer,
So people like Bob Waterfield never existed in this world? Norm Van Brocklin?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Los Angeles Rams owned this town in 50’s and 60’s.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Sure, but this should not be a list of what have you done for me lately.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Well
The only peron on this list to do anything really great in the last 20 years is Kobe. Fernando pitched is no hitter in 1990 I believe.
Chick Hearn was still breathing this decade
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Oh, you mean the man who personally made the NBA a marketable enterprise? And developed most of it’s current terminology?
Baseball is a game, and games are supposed to be fun.
Someone needs to publish the list of sayings by Chick.
Baseball is a game, and games are supposed to be fun.
Like this:)
http://los-angeles-lakers1lakerlegends.blogspot.com/2007/11/chick-hearn.html
20 foot lay-up: A jump shot by Jamaal Wilkes
Air-ball: A shot that draws nothing but air.
(He sent that one back) Air-mail Special!: A strongly-blocked shot, often sent high into the stands.
Bloooows the layup! : Missed a very easy layup.
Boo-birds: Fans who boo their own team when they play badly.
(He did the) bunny hop in the pea patch: He was called for traveling.
(You could) call it with Braille: An easy call for an official, e.g. a blatant foul.
(He got) caught with his hand in the cookie jar: A reaching foul.
(The) Charity Stripe: The free-throw line.
(He’s got ‘em) covered like the rug on your floor: Really good one-on-one defense.
(They) couldn’t beat the Sisters of Mercy: The team is getting beat badly.
(They) couldn’t throw a pea into the ocean: The team’s shooting is really awful.
(It’ll) count if it goes …: A player that is fouled in the act of shooting. It go-o-o-oes! (if the shot is successful)
(That shot) didn’t draw iron: A shot which misses the rim, but hits the backboard. Sometimes, would add but it drew a lot of flies
Dime store score: A 10 to 5 score
Dribble-drive: A player drives the basket while dribbling.
Finger roll: A shot where the ball rolls off the shooter’s fingers.
(He) fly-swatted (that one): A shot blocked with force and authority.
Football score: A score resembling one often seen in a football game (e.g., 21 to 14).
(He threw up a) frozen rope: A shot with a very flat trajectory.
(We’re) high above the western sideline: Chick’s perch at the Forum, from which he called his word’s eye views of the game.
Hippity-hops the dribble: A player dribbling the ball does a little hop step.
I’ll bet you an ice-cream: Hearn and Keith Erickson (his one-time color commentator) often bet ice creams on the outcome of a shot or game.
(He’s got) ice-water in his veins: When a player hits a clutch free-throw.
(It’s) First and ten: Multiple players are sprawled on the floor after a physical play or diving for the ball.
(It’s) garbage time: The (often sloppily-played) remainder of the game (after it’s in the refrigerator).
Give and Go: A player passes the ball, makes a quick cut, and receives a return pass.
(In & out,) heart-brrrreak!: A shot that appears to go in, but rattles off the rim and misses. Sometimes it went in so far you could read the Commissioner’s name from below.
He has two chances, slim and none, and slim just left the building: The player has no chance of success with this play.
If that goes in, I’m walking home: Similar to a prayer, when the opponent shoots a shot that is a prayer, a streak, or some amazing shot. (Usually on the road)
Leapin’ Lena: A shot made while the player is in the air and off balance.
Marge could have made that shot: a missed shot that was so easy, Hearn’s wife Marge could have made it. Marge was often referred to when a player messed up something that was easy.
(There are) lots of referees in the building, only three getting paid: The entire crowd acts as though they are the officials by disagreeing with a call.
The mustard’s off the hot dog: A player attempts an unnecessarily showy, flashy play which ends up in a turnover or is otherwise unsuccessful.
My grandmother could guard him, and she can’t go to her left!: Said of a slow, out of shape, or hurt player.
Nervous time: When the final moments of a game are pressure-packed.
94-by-50 hunk of wood: The basketball court, based on the floor’s dimensions. (Attacking 47 feet: The front court.)
No harm, no foul(no blood, no ambulance, no stitches): A non-call by an official when varying degrees of contact have occurred. More adjectives means the non-call was more questionable.)
Not Phi Beta Kappa: Not a smart play.
…Since Hector was a pup A very long time (e.g., the Lakers haven’t had the lead since Hector was a pup.)
He’s in the Popcorn Machine (with butter and salt all over him): Meaning that a defensive player got faked into the air (and out of play) by an offensive player’s pump fake. (“Popcorn Machine” is a reference to an actual popcorn machine in the old Los Angeles Sports Arena, which was near the basket, but far away from the court. Thus, if the player went far out of play, he was in the “popcorn machine.”)
(He’s) on him like a postage stamp: Very tight defense.
Slam Dunk!: Hearn’s most famous phrase; a powerful shot where a player forces the ball through the rim with one or both hands.
(He) takes him to the third floor and leaves him at the mezzanine: A move where an offensive player pump-fakes a defender and draws a foul from the leaping player.
Tattoo dribble: A player dribbling the ball while not moving, as though tattooing the floor with the ball, as he waits for the play to develop.
This game’s in the refrigerator: the door is closed, the lights are out, the eggs are cooling, the butter’s getting hard, and the Jell-O’s jigglin’!: The game’s outcome is set; only the final score is in question. Chick’s variation on “the game’s on ice.”
Throws up a brick: When a player tosses up a particularly errant shot.
Throws up a prayer (… it’s answered!!!): A wild shot that will need a miracle to score (and does).
Ticky-tack: A foul called when very little contact has been made.
Triple Double: A player gets 10 or more (i.e. double digits) in three statistical categories: points, rebounds, assists, steals or blocked shots.
(On his) wallet: A player fell on his rear end.
Words-eye view: What listeners received while listening to Hearn call the game on the radio.
(He’s) working on his Wrigleys. A player is chewing gum.
(He’s) yo-yo-ing up and down: A player dribbles in one place as if he were playing with a yo-yo on a string.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I haven’t the slightest clue who Merlin Olsen or Jim Murray are, so I have to assume theyplayed football.
Merlin Olsen was Father Murphy. Jim Murray is something you’ve never experienced – quality writing from the LA Times sports page (if too biting at times).
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I had the sneaking thought Murray was a jrnalist if for no other reason than I think Jon wrote a Jim Murray tribute about his eyes fading (now that you jog my memory).
Jim Murray on Merlin Olsen
“Olsen could dam a river. He’s the last remnant of the most famous line in Ram history, if not in football’s — Deacon Jones, Roosevelt Grier, Lamar Lundy and Olsen. They could stop Hitler’s tanks. They taught the public to appreciate defense. Guys who play against Olsen have trouble sleeping the night before. Also, the night after.”
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/afterword/2010/03/jim-murray-on-merlin-olsen.html
That second D-Line that Olsen was part
Of with Jack Youngblood, Merlin Olsen, Larry Brroks and Fred Dryer wasn’t bad either.
I actually had work to do so I couldn't post on the current part of this topic back when it happened
damn work, I should just get rich and retire already.
TBLA 2011 Postseason Prediction Champion
This is (unfortunately) a USC football town, yet #18 is the only spot they can muster, and only because the Raiders came to town for awhile? I guess John McKay shouldn’t have taken the Tampa Bay Buccaneers job.
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Right
I was thinking John McKay should be on that list
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Arguably
The first or second greatest college basketball player, Bill Walton could be there if we start listing college players. (Generally thought that Abdul-Jabbar and Walton are 1 and 2 on that list)
Wilt played five seasons here
In his 30s, with one lost almost entirely to injury. Shaq was here for 8 prime years, ages 24-31. Wilt’s volleyball things don’t mean much in this discussion, and his 20,000 don’t either.
I think even I have to go John McKay over Wilt. And I have to think about Shaq being on here.
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Have to say that if it weren’t for Jim Murray, I probably wouldn’t have read the LA Times Sports section when I was a kid.
Baseball is a game, and games are supposed to be fun.
You’d have read it even less if he hadn’t had West, Baylor, Koufax to write about
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Speaking of….Why not Baylor? He was a flashy as Magic, and could score along with West.
Baseball is a game, and games are supposed to be fun.
And long-time GM of the Clippers!
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So, I probably wouldn’t be as adamant about the Dodgers today.
Baseball is a game, and games are supposed to be fun.
I call BS
If the Dodgers had Barry Latman pitching instead of Sandy Koufax you might not be a Dodger fan today but Jim Murray, made you a fan?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I enjoyed his comic ridicule of Cincinnati when the Dodgers went there, and the way he made everything in sports seem more fun, and not serious,
Baseball is a game, and games are supposed to be fun.
The McCourt story this morning made me think of this for some reason
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3xsDv6yCnY
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
It would be a shame if Grady Sizemore is done.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
what was your vote?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I know a Giants fan who is terrified Sabean is going to sign Sizemore to a 5 year deal
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Rollins
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah my money's on that one
though I’d rather they didn’t get Beltran or Rollins and did do long term for Sizemore.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Between Juan and Grady?
Once Ms Falsone gets physical with him, and he passes then if the choice is that simple it would be Grady without thinking twice. An intense physical would be the key. However if he can pass an intense physical then someone other then the Dodgers will be inking him to a deal. If he’s Rocco Baldelli material then I’ll take Juan. Not that I want Juan playing for the Dodgers in 2012.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Falsone = Olivia Newton John?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
As a fan of baseball I’d be disappointed if Andre, Loney, or Kemp win, but would have no problem with Clayton. He does seem like one of the best at his position.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
New Number Four Starter
Jamie Moyer threw for scouts last Thursday.. Reports from scouts excellent.
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dude is older than me
as long as he plays, the dream lives
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Like so many of us in a certain age bracket
Julio Franco was the last guy older than me in MLB. Thank god for that guy.
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i laughed at both
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
The history of Gorilla Glass is awesoke.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
it really is
Wasn’t it created quite a long time ago, but are only now finding uses for it?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Yup, Corning created it years and years ago but couldn’t find a commercial application for it. Until recently.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
IS IT TRUE THAT CORNING GORILLA GLASS WAS ORIGINALLY DEVELOPED IN THE 1960S?
No. That has been a popular myth, which apparently resulted from a misunderstanding of the facts. It’s true that Corning experimented with chemically strengthened glass in 1960, as part of an initiative called "Project Muscle." In 1961, Corning developed a glass composition it promoted under the Chemcor® brand, which featured state-of-the-art strength and durability. Chemcor glass was incorporated into tableware, ophthalmic products, and applications for the automotive, aviation, and pharmaceutical industries. When Corning began developing a tough new cover glass for electronic devices in 2006, Corning scientists, of course, drew upon the company’s prior expertise with strengthened glass. However, Corning Gorilla Glass is a different product and glass composition than Chemcor. We implemented significant compositional as well as other changes to achieve superior product characteristics including outstanding damage resistance, while making the glass compatible with Corning’s proprietary fusion-draw manufacturing process. Corning’s fusion-draw process produces exceptionally thin glass with unparalleled surface quality. The result is a tough and damage-resistant glass that is ideal for today’s sleekest electronic devices and most sophisticated touch technology.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Though more enlightening than discussing porking Daisy Duck.
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I wonder if silverwidow has seen this article
Darvish is gonna be fun to watch, I think.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 10:00 AM PDT reply actions
God damn a guy named Robert Whiting writing a book called The Samurai Way Of Baseball bugs me.
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by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
this might help
Robert Whiting (1942– ) is an author and journalist who has written several successful books on contemporary Japanese culture. Whiting was born in New Jersey, grew up in California and graduated from Sophia University in Tokyo. He has lived in Japan 32 of the last 48 years and currently resides in Tokyo with his family.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
pretty accomplished fellow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Whiting
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Actually most of that article bugs me. Why will Darvish be better than Dice-K. Well first he’s not actually Japanese…
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by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I think the point more was
He’s taller, throws harder, uses his slider better, is younger, has less mileage on his arm, and has a better attitude.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Then don’t lead off with how him not having inferior Japanese genes makes him better. Especially since Iranian dudes are actually shorter on average than Japanese guys.
You could have wrote the exact same article without that first part.
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by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
or re-worded
i get your point.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
And a one seam fastball > gyroball.
Everybody knows this
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
So after all the talk over the years about how James Loney was not as good a defensive 1st baseman as his protractors thought he was, he would appear using metrics that evidently mean nothing in one year snapshots to have had a very good year defensively in 2011.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
2.3, 1.3, 4.6 the last three years. Which in the margin of error for UZR is exactly the same. He’s a solid first baseman.
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by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
wooo hooo
so we can now say Jim Loney is a solid defensive 1st baseman without being hooted down?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Has anyone disagreed? It’s when people call him elite that there’s a problem.
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by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Don't knock it till you've tried to goodness that is an AMF
That’ll get you feeling good fast.
TBLA 2011 Postseason Prediction Champion
Yet you'd rather drink whiskey on the rocks?
No thank you sir
TBLA 2011 Postseason Prediction Champion
An AMF is throwing all of the soda at the fountain into your big gulp cup.
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by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
This. You want sweet, just drink Mike’s Hard. Probably easier on your wallet too.
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I love a good mike's hard lemonade
But being at a bar that will cost around 4-5 dollars per bottle, when you can get an AMF for about 6-7 dollars. If im going to a friends house to relax and hang out I’ll get a 6 pack of mikes and i’ll be happy, and it’s about the price of one AMF depending on where you can get them, which is nice.
TBLA 2011 Postseason Prediction Champion
I’d skip the rocks, if’n the whiskey is good enough.
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If he would only drop the James and lock in Jim full time, he’d be a beast.
by keithc13 on Nov 1, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think there were some degrees of separation among his protractors. ;-)
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two things:
Happy birthday, Fernando
and
Carlos Beltran just dropped Boras. Clearly, he wants to be an Angel.
Even more clearly he does not ever want to be a NY Met again.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Dan Lozano was the agent for Mike Piazza, who will go into the Hall of Fame as a Met.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Knowing nothing but this. If Carlos Beltran was happy with the free agent deal he signed with the Met’s, I doubt he’d be firing Boras as he heads into free agency again.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Lozano also represents Michael young and Jimmy Rollins. Dan’s a nice guy, too.
by UCLADodger32 on Nov 1, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I’ll like Dan a ton if he sticks Brian Sabean with a five-year deal for market money for Rollins.
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All this basketball talk reminded me, somehow of Billy Bridges and Walt Hazzard in the early 70’s. I’m trying to find a description of the time Hazzard jumped on Bridges’ back and he flipped him onto the floor, injuring Hazzard (or whatever his Muslim name was). Can anybody help?
Baseball is a game, and games are supposed to be fun.
Is that why he became the gnome who was a terrible UCLA coach?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I think his other name was Abdul Rahman, if that helps.
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Scenario
Assumption: James Loney becomes Jim Loney for 1/3 of every season.
Supposition: Jim Loney appears from April 1-May 31
Question #1: Do you sign loney to an extension thinking he finally figured it out? Or do you wait until you have the whole season’s worth of data to make a decision, knowing that if you wait and he stays Jim, it’ll cost you a lot more than you would have had to pay in both dollars and years if you signed him in June.
Question #2: If you said sign him at the end of May, what contract do you offer him? What do you think he accepts?
Question #3: If you don’t sign him and he stays Jim, finishing the year with solid defense, 25HR, .290/.350/.500, what contract do you offer him? What contract do you think he accepts?
No, wait until the offseason.
N/A.
Not sure. Might depend on who the other FA 1B are.
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Cot’s list of potential 1B FAs after next year:
Travis Hafner *3Bs who might be 1Bs by then are Mark Reynolds, David Wright and Kevin Youkilis, all with options. Maybe there are a couple OFs who become 1Bs then too: Carlos Lee, Ethier?, Luke Scott?.
Aubrey Huff *
Adam LaRoche *
Carlos Lee
James Loney
Mike Napoli
Ty Wigginton *
*player whose current contract includes 2013 option
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A pleasant problem to have would be James Loney hitting like Jim and Jerry Sands proving Sept was no fluke.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
How are people feeling about Sands right now
Starting LF or backup LF/1B and resigning Rivera or getting another outfield option?
TBLA 2011 Postseason Prediction Champion
Sands should be givenevery opportunity possible to be the starting LF in 2012. Then, after he has a great spring and makes the team but follows it up with an awful April when he’s no long facing 5th starer candidates and NRI relievers, I hope we have a fallback option.
Your second sentence is inconsistent with the first. If you think he will fail, why should he be given every opportunity to win the job outright? Especially since winning the job outright makes it less likely that there’s a legitimate fallback option.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
But we’ve found that guys like Jay Gibbons, Garrett Anderson and Marcus Thames are not good fallback options.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Every day (every day) Frank writes the book,
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Was Jamie finding strange hands in her sweater. Jeff Fuller has sure turned out to be a footnote.
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We should make every effort to find someone to start over Sands but if we can’t I guess you can let him and Oeljtan fight over playing time.
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by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Personally, if he starts off hot, I ofer him 12/2 and hope it takes. If not, wait until the offseason and if you can’t sign him for less than 40/4, let him walk.
If he’s raking like he did the last two months, and the underlying stats support this (this is the big part, his batted ball numbers went way down in September) then I’m down.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I made that part about his batted ball going way down in September up.
If he’s doing LD% 17 then no.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
He’s always low because he’s hitting a ton of dingers.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
he’s going to make at least 6 Million in 2012? Why would he take 12/2 if he is hot?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
His 2012 salary is irrelevant assuming he isn’t offered and takes arb. At that point, it is about what his value is on the open market.
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So 20/2 would be more relevant. James would do much better on the open market today then he will make in arbitration.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
You don’t think James Loney would do better as a free agent today then what he will get in arbitration? If that is so then the Dodgers would just non tender him.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I think if your plan is to have James Loney, it’s worth a slight premium to make sure no one does anything crazy.
I don’t think Loney could get 6.5 on the open market so he should be non tendered.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
There are at least three teams in the NL Central who need 1Bs. Assuming Fielder and Pujols take two of those spots, the third team (presumably Milwaukee) would panic and throw crazy money at Loney.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Like BFDC suggests, if Milwaukee is going to panic, I’d like LAD to be on the other end of that transaction.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I honestly thought James Loney would be out of MLB by the time spring training ended next year. He had a great close to the year and that’s great, but he’s got a bit of work to do to erase the suck that was the last 4 years of his career.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d be kind of surprised if someone was a 4 year starter with 3000 PAs then didn’t play professionally at all ever again.
Seems to happen every year though. Jarrod Washburn and Jeremy Bonderman simply went away when they realized the market value for their services were nowhere near what they were used to getting paid.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Pitchers are not hitters
As Gary said no one under the age of 28 who was not hurt, who has garnered 3,000 plate appearances and was an average player simply disappears.
David Segui’s of the world get work.
Casey Kotchman came close to disappearing and viola, here he is.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Dallas McPherson keeps showing up too and he’s never done anything at the major league level.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
I don’t see how he is relevant to this conversation.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Loney has not been an average player. He’s been consistently in the bottom quartile of his position.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I remember looking at this a very long time ago and the only guys in their mid 20s to have a solid offensive season and disappear forever are Hee Seop Choi and Dave Nillson.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
FWIW, at the time I said that Loney would be out of baseball, he hadn’t turned his season around, and he wouldn’t have been considered to have been having a “solid” offensive season at all.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Ahead of Ryan Howard.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m assuming defense factored into that too….
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Yea for sure. I’m not trying to be snarky. I really want to know exactly where Loney ranked amongst qualified 1B in terms of offense?
High 20s in most metrics.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Nah
Offensively he was still in bottom quartile for those with 400 or more at bats.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=400&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&players=0
It his defense that gave him more value then Howard if you want to believe in such things.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Defense definitely has value, it’s just harder to measure.
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Yes, I still don’t get the we don’t trust defensive metrics for sample size of a year but we will include it in calculating WAR and use WAR to determine the worth of a player whenever we do comparisons.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
hasn't this been beaten to death?
it tells you how well they did that year, but it is not a good measure of their true talent measure because the sample size is small enough that they could fluke into a good defensive season fairly easily. Or so I’ve been told? Judges?
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Because if you say someone if you’re saying a player is better because they out WARed someone by .2 you’re doing it wrong.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Tell us how to do it right. And take your time, those first six words look like Fortran to me.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
One guy WARs 2.4 one WARs 2.2 they’re about the same.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
at what point are they not about the same?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Margin of error in UZR is +/- five runs so if a guy is within 1 WAR of someone else you should check to see if their defensive numbers are reasonable.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Fangraphs WAR. Fangraphs thought Loney was 7 runs better on defense but he’s still 25 on Fangraphs and 22nd on B-Ref.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
There have been 5 seasons where a guy had an OPS+ over 100 from 25-27 then never played again.
1 was murdered, 1 broke mentally and tried to kill himself, which leaves Choi, Junior Felix, and Pancho Herrara as the only guys left in that list.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Something about him I don’t know?
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Choi went back to Asia when he couldn’t find work in the US, yes? But whatever happened to double-earflap aficionado Junior Felix?
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Injuries then I’ve always suspected age gate with him.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Pretty sure Junior Felix was found out and turned out to be not so Junior.
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no one knows for sure, I guess
Link.
When the Florida Marlins picked Junior Felix from the California Angels in the recent expansion draft, they were led to believe that he would turn 25 in October. That, after all, is the age at which he is listed in baseball’s official record books.
Now, however, they’re discovering that their “young” right-fielder is at least 30, and maybe even as old as 35.
“We never really knew for sure how old Felix was,” Angel manager Buck Rodgers said, “but we always suspected that he was 30-plus.”
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I think we can all agree that only Michael felt Loney would disappear and since he’s been one of his most vocal critics, one can understand where the sentiment comes from.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Again, at the time I said it (initially, not earlier in the thread) there is no chance Loney had an OPS+ over 100.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Murder victim was Lyman Bostock. Who was the unfortunate suicide attempt guy?
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Tony Horton.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I had completely forgotten about the Tony Horton story. Thanks for the reminder.
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I am already having a bitch of a jackass day
if tony doesn’t hear a Who in this story then I do not want to read about it
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Apparently Tony did/does well in business, so there’s that.
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- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Nilsson, Schmilsson.
(especially for Humma).
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- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Dave put the lime in the coconut and drank ’em both together. Then he felt better.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on Nov 1, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m glad somebody finally gave me that recipe.
by Eric Stephen on Nov 1, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Jimmy Buffett’s favorite creation of mixology, as he told Men’s Journal, combines coconut water, rum, a squeeze of lime, and glass full of ice
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I would definitely try
a Key Lime pie with a coconut topping.
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- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
If you get a key lime pie
and it’s green, they did it wrong
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
What is his status headed into 2012?
He is FA eligible or one more year of arbitration?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
ah, the color codes, never actually looked at those before.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
the link wasn’t me being snarky, the link was me saying “I think he’s a FA, but I’m not sure enough to sound authoritative”
That is cool, it made me look at the worksheet in more detail then ever before as I tried to decipher how it was telling me that Kemp, Andre, and James would all be walking next year. The color codes are brilliant I feel a bit dunce like in not noticing before, I just thought Eric was trying to pretty things up and actually doing something functional with them.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Back to the original post, what a dreadful set of NL 3B candidates. Descalso played 117 games at 3B, but only started 61, meaning he was a late-inning replacement in most of them. Panda and Placido Flamingo were both hurt and not very good. I can’t think of a better choice off the top of my head, but wow.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
NL with over 900 innings (100 full games) at 3B
Slim pickings. UZR #s shown, FWIW.
Name Team Pos Inn UZR UZR/150
Aramis Ramirez CHC 3B 1241.1 -9.4 -10.9
Casey McGehee MIL 3B 1233.1 6.5 7.3
Placido Polanco PHI 3B 1044.2 14.0 16.7
Chipper Jones ATL 3B 1006.1 -8.0 -12.4
Pablo Sandoval SFG 3B 904.2 12.3 17.9
Ryan Roberts ARI 3B 902.1 1.7 2.6
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Dodgers P Steven Ames is one of the pitchers for the East team in the AFL Rising Stars game on Saturday at 5pm on MLB Network (and MLB.com).
What would be the opposite of Rising Stars? because whatever it is, that is what the crap the Dodgers sent to the AFL this year.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Winter League Stats
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/org.jsp?id=la
At least Kyle Russell has started to hit
Lemmerman can take a walk, that seems to be about it.
Parsi
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
No good pitching
Offensive environment
Yet our hitters all make Juan Castro look like Barry Larkin.
And some wonder why some of us are not enthralled with the position prospects still left in AAA/AA ball.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Gimenez is doing okay!
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
at least in the winter leagues you can blame, food, culture, bugs, in Arizona if you suck you just suck.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Jake Lemmermann doesn’t have the worst OPS in the league!
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I recall hearing about this a couple of weeks ago, though I already forgot
what’s up with Castle? Injury?
TBLA 2011 Postseason Prediction Champion
Speaking of Scott Boras..draft loophole genius?
Andrew Brackman, drafted in 2007, signed a major league deal that included club options from 2011 to 2013. His contract forced the Yankees to release him if any options were not picked up, and that’s what happened today.
Have never seen that before.
speaking of free agent left fielders……..
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Nov 1, 2011 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Jon Weisman tweeted about it yesterday, and the Dodgers today, about Matt Kemp being a guest on Last Call with Carson Daly on Friday night. I had no idea that show was still around!
Up next for Kemp: Perspectives with Lionel Osbourne. “It’s 4:52 in the a.m….”
Last Call has to be the coolest gig in the world. Carson Daly goes and spends some time with people he wants to spend time with, doing the the things he seems to genuinely enjoy doing and they pay him money for it, despite the fact that nobody actually watches the show on purpose. Then he decided he had too much credibility and did The Voice.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
And he provides Josie with an ongoing column title.
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Fun at the extremes
I was looking at Dodger UZRs and noticed that Jerry Sands had a -0.4UZR while playing 2 innings there. Turns out it was in the Russ Mitchell game. The outfield those two innings was Gibbons-Sands-Ethier. Good think Kenley was on the bump at the same time. Here what happened in those two innings:
8th: A. Ramirez, Strikeout Looking; A. Dunn, Groundout: 3B-1B; P. Konerko, Flyball: LF (LF-CF)I dunno, maybe that “line drive to short CF” was a softie that maybe some fleet-footed fellows catch? But -0.4 for one play in 2 innings. (I assume that if Jay Gibbons can field those two flies to LF, they couldn’t have been challenging.) I guess at the very least this helps illustrate why even a whole season or two is a SSS for UZR.
9th: C. Quentin, Flyball: LF (LF-CF); A. Rios, Popfly: 3B; A. Pierzynski, Single to CF (Line Drive to Short CF); G. Beckham. Strikeout Looking
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Yeah the way UZR works if thats a ball that gets caught about half of the time you’d lose .4 runs.
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Just a note on LA Times Greatest LA Sports Figures
No. 6 is Jerry West.
I agree with those who would replace Wilt with Shaq.
I think I’d probably take Jerry Buss off of the list. Obviously, the Lakers have won tremendously under his stewardship, but I don’t know that he is a great sports figure. Walter O’Malley, on the other hand, is probably too low. He brought professional sports here. Even though there was little doubt that Los Angeles was a thriving city that could support a team, nobody displayed his willingness to make it happen. I don’t think there is anybody who has had a greater impact on the sporting landscape in Los Angeles than him.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
because O’Malley didn’t just see a city with money, he saw a city with money and a fifty-five year old baseball team.
And which franchise was more successful, the then 55 year old baseball team, or O’Malley’s team?
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
The Hollywood Stars were pretty bad though.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
I meant successful as in prosperous. Giving equal weight to PCL championships vs. NL pennants seems silly.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
oh no doubt the Dodgers have been more prosperous in their 50+ years. I’m not saying Wrigley should be ahead of O’Malley, just on the list
I have to give you credit, you’ve done a nice job educating people about the LA Angels, Wrigley Field, etc.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
the PCL was a very good league
there was serious talk of expanding baseball incorporating the PCL into the bigs
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d never argue the Dodgers owe their success to the old Angels, just that an all time LA list should acknowledge LA’s pre major league city history
But why? People don’t even know about the PCL Angles and if you acknowledge the Dodgers history is not impacted by the Angles being here I don’t see how the PCL Angles had much of an impact on the sporting landscape of Los Angeles.
by Michael White on Nov 1, 2011 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
He brought professional sports here. Even though there was little doubt that Los Angeles was a thriving city that could support a team, nobody displayed his willingness to make it happen. -Nolij
My argument is a) pro sports were in LA for 55 years before the Dodgers came out west and b) when the Dodgers moved to LA, it was the fans of the Angels and Stars who came out in those first years. O’Malley didn’t create the market from nothing.
yes, the Rams were in LA for thirteen years before the Dodgers moved west, so there was already a major pro sports franchise here
My first thought was the Rams, although the NFL in 1957, when O’Malley finalized the move decision, was a far different beast than the NFL of the 1970s and beyond.
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the credit I would give to O’Malley is in building LA’s first major professional sports facility. Which is an important moment to be sure.
Well, I think that is a bit miserly in the credit giving department
Really could not compare anything to Major League Baseball in those days. What O’Malley did was the fulfillment of manifest destiny.
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Stand your ground, what O’Malley did was simply hasten an inevitable process by a few years.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
The most important thing Walter O’Malley did was bring Sandy Koufax and Vin Scully with him. If he does not bring those two, then he’s simply Gene Autry with no guns and no ability to sing.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I’m still standing my “it would have happened anyway cause LA had a great tradition of supporting baseball” ground, but I’m conceding that bringing major league stars, a top flight radio announcer, and an instant World Series are all on O’Malley : )
It would have happened anyway even if the PCL had never existed.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
chicken and egg. The PCL existed and was so well respected because it was full of cities ready to become major league cities.
Josie – name all the PCL cities in 1957. Now name all the major league teams playing in those cities.
Baseball came west because we were the fastest growing region in America, not because they were playing successful minor league baseball in Los Angeles.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Portland as a MLB town would be sweet
the “Portland Soggy Loggers”
I wan’t a jersey
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure postwar population movement
TV
Cars
Airlines
Prosperity
and baseball
they all played a part in vary degrees
they really did consider making the PCL the third Major league. It was that good
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Steve Bilko, greatest PCL player.
Steve Bilko average major league player.
Sorry Joe, I’m not buying it.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
it would have watered down the talent some – it was the best minor league, but still a minor league
but that is what every expansion does
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I was born in 1956
I’m pretty sure the East Coast said “We need to shut that fuckin kid up. I know, let’s give him the Dodgers”
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
the NHL expanded because of the WHL. The NFL absorbs the AFL. The NBA takes on some of the top ABA teams.
The PCL’s strength is a factor in why MLB sought to put teams out here.
I think it wasa factor
like “close to transportation” is a factor in buying a house. But nothing that sped up the process.
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
You are comparing a minor league system to major league teams. The ABA and AFL had raided the existing leagues and within a few short years were on par with them. The PCL raided nobody in 1950 from a major league team that anyone gave a shit about.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Right, the AFL and WFL popped up because there were underserved markets. MLB identified underserved markets and moved or expanded before competition could spring up. The PCL simply grew along with the west.
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From the always accurate Wiki
but I have heard the same story elsewhere
In 1952, the PCL became the only minor league in history to be given the “Open” classification, a step above the AAA level. This limited the rights of major league clubs to draft players from the PCL, and was seen as a step toward the circuit becoming a third major league.
The shift to the Open classification came just as minor league teams from coast to coast suffered a sharp drop in attendance, primarily due to the availability of major league games on television.
The hammer blow to the PCL’s major league dreams came in 1958, when the Brooklyn Dodgers moved to Los Angeles and the New York Giants moved to San Francisco. As a result, three of the PCL’s flagship teams (the Los Angeles Angels, the Hollywood Stars, and the San Francisco Seals) were immediately forced to relocate to smaller markets. Additionally, the PCL did not benefit from the comparison with the major leagues, which now occupied the same territory and drew away much of the attention of its former fans. The league never recovered from these blows. The Pacific Coast League reverted to AAA classification in 1958, and soon diminished in the public eye to nothing more than another minor league.
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I can’t say anything about what it was like to be a sports fan in L.A. before the Dodgers, but I do know that my dad has said that he never saw an Angels or Stars game, but that in 1957(?), they started broadcasting Dodgers games on the radio and he listened to every game and went many times to games at the Coliseum.
The market wasn’t created solely by O’Malley, but giving Wrigley anything close to that level of credit is disingenuous.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
If he does not even know when the Dodgers first moved here can we really trust anything else he has to say:)
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
They were on the radio before they even moved to L.A. (at least according to him) :)
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Ah, that would make sense.
Can you imagine being a fan in 57 knowing they were leaving. I can kind of emphasize when the Rams left, though now I have no memory if we knew during the year or if it all came about that summer.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I believe there were rumors and speculation during the 1957 season, but the move wasn’t announced until after the season was ended.
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At least Josie didn’t sack that Jack Dempsey’s bouts in the Grand Olympic Auditorium mean he should have been #1.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Ralphie Valladares
http://derbymemoirs.bankedtrack.info/mem_Valladares_Ralph.html
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Bobo Brazil FTW
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
TBLA friend Ken Levine remembers
http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2009/09/memories-of-roller-derby.html
Three memories stand out. The T-Birds won (guess I caught ‘em on a good night), there was an old lady next to me (had to be 90) who stood on her chair and screamed obscenities. And then this – the greatest announcement I’ve ever heard at a sporting event: The P.A. announcer said, "Fans, do not throw anything onto the rink. You have no guarantee it’ll hit the player you’re aiming at."
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I was happy as hell the other day when Levine linked to me and quoted my joke about some African village getting Rangers shirts again.
So is TBLA your testing ground, if it flies here you tweet on twitter?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I guess this answers the question I have asked in the past. Has Kobe passed West and Magic on the Laker totem pole. The answer seems to be no.
I can think of no better resolution to the Dodger ownership problem then for Magic / Orel / Fernando to front a purchase.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I kind of feel O’Malley gets to much credit for doing something that someone else would have done fairly quickly. It was not that long after we had the Angels. Four years is nothing.
Jack Kent Cooke, now there was a visionary:)
For Josie – Jack Kent Cooke bought the Lakers in 1965 from Bob Short who was the one responsible for bringing the Lakers to Los Angeles. This is only interesting because Bob Short also owned the Washington Senators who he purchased in 1968 the year I moved to Washington and hired Ted Williams, and eventually moved the team to Texas.
The Senators’ move to Texas would make Short one of the most reviled figures in Washington sports. During the final Senators game at RFK Stadium on September 30, 1971, the fans let their feelings known about Short, unfurling two giant vertical banners that read “Short Stinks”. Fans would later storm the field near the end of the game, resulting in a Senators forfeit. During the Washington Nationals’ final game at RFK Stadium on September 23, 2007, a similar scene unfolded. Nationals’ fans unrolled a series of three banners vertically spelling out “Short Still Stinks”, in nearly the same place in the stadium that the two banners hung 36 years earlier. Luckily the game otherwise finished without major incident and unlike the infamous 1971 game, did not need to be forfeited.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I thought about Cooke while discounting Buss. He had a great line about why the Kings had mediocre attendance despite like 200,000 Canadian ex-pats in Southern California — “Clearly they left Canada because they hated hockey.”
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
by Nolij on Nov 1, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cooke was a lousy owner
in every sport. Forum Blue my ass
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
LA trendsetter for sports owners
Cooke’s first marriage, his longest, lasted 45 years. He and Barbara Jean Carnegie married in 1934, and were divorced in 1979. In the divorce action, Carnegie was awarded what was then the largest divorce settlement in history — $42 million. The presiding judge during the bench trial was Joseph Wapner
Yes, that Judge Wapner.
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Why the Forum got built
The Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum Commission, which operated the Sports Arena, supported a competing bid [for an NHL expansion franchise] headed by Los Angeles Rams owner Dan Reeves, and advised Cooke that if he won the franchise he would not be allowed to use that facility. In response, Cooke threatened to build a new arena in the Los Angeles suburb of Inglewood.
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From the Kings wikipedia
the Kings opened their first season at the Long Beach Arena in the neighboring city of Long Beach on October 14, 1967, defeating the Philadelphia Flyers 4–2. For the next two months, the Kings played their home games both at Long Beach and at the Sports Arena. The “Fabulous Forum” finally opened its doors on December 30, 1967
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the Sports Arena page claims the Kings played from Oct-Dec 1967, Long Beach Arena page says they played there. This is why wiki is only a starting point : )
The statement that they played in both sites cites the Kings 2007-2008 media guide. I choose to believe that info was copied correctly and that they truly played in both arenas.
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Whenever I think of Cooke and the Lakers, I think about how much it must have sucked to be the city of LA. You build the Sports Arena, open it in 60, and by 68 your two pro tenants have ditched you for their own arena they built in Inglewood.
And, adding insult to injury, the Clippers play there for a while.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
I saw an ABA game in the Sports Arena in the late 60s.
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Things I've seen at the Sports Arena
The Who
Elvis Costello
A Pipino Cuevas fight
Ice Capades
2000 Democratic Convention
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
I was the one chanting
Where’s my fuckin Internet
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
Elvis Costello and Squeeze
The Cars, 1980?
Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, 1984
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woah
Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, 1984
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
ah nevermind, now 1975, then I’d have done a double woah
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I was 14 for most of 1975. I wasn’t getting to any concerts then.
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My first concerts were in 1974
Dave Mason
Then Traffic (in combination with watching the Dodgers clinch in San Diego)
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
My first was in 1979
Strangely enough, Fleetwood Mac.
There must have been some long instrumental jams in that Traffic show.
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My Costello one was this one
later in 81. Phil Alvin opened.
http://www.elviscostello.info/wiki/index.php/Concert_1981-12-29
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
Only year he played places that big here, I think
Back to the Universal in subsequent tours.
42 song set!! “Psycho”, the murder ballad cover, makes me laugh.
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This is hilarious. Vernon Wells Makes His Decision
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2011/11/1/2530889/vernon-wells-makes-his-decision
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
The punch line is what got me, but I guess I find things Vernon Wells + social media related funny!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Didn’t tickle my funny bone at all. Maybe if was Nyjer Morgan + social media.
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But he’s a SBNation Baseball Writer.
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Okay, it made me chuckle.
Sorry guys, I’ll try to filter out my humor links here better now. :-P
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Tony LaCava turned down the Orioles GM offer and will stay in Toronto, says Rosenthal. DeJon Watson interviewed for that job too…
I wonder if LaCava was able to leverage that into a nice raise and/or extension with Toronto. Maybe he has a Hoyer/Theo bond with Anthopolous.
But yeah, there are only 30 big boy chairs in MLB, so it is rare to turn an opportunity down.
Bad enough to turn a mild mannered Irish boy into a shocking suicide.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Survived by his wife – Morgan Fairchild!
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FWIW, Keith Law chimes in
@keithlaw
If true, an absolute disaster, caused by Angelos. RT @supermatt1331: thoughts on LaCava turning down Baltimores offer to stay with Jays?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
So if first choice Tony said no, does DeJon have a shot?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Very much so
The Orioles only interviewed four guys. Dipoto is in Anaheim, LaCava said no. That leaves Watson and John Stockstill, who is in the O’s player development.
Some O’s beat writers have been tweeting that they will now likely expand their search. Doesn’t seem like Baltimore was prepared for LaCava to say no.
“Surely nothing could go wrong in a meeting with Peter Angelos”
Minor League Central @mlcentral @andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Nov 1, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You’ve never interviewed somewhere and gotten a bad feeling about the place, the potential boss, etc.?
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I've turned down a couple job offers
They were shocked/insulted
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
Marty playing the Man Card
I always like to approach an interview that we are interviewing each other for mutual suitability
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
In 1998
The great Y2K panic was gathering steam. I had my pick of job offers. It was the only time I was literally playing 3 companies against each other. It was awesome.
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
I did the same thing in 2005. Had four companies competing for my services. Had one company call me in for an interview, and when I met with the owner, he said “We can’t afford to employ you, but I wanted to meet someone with your resume.” I was a little insulted, but flattered at the same time.
Baseball is a game, and games are supposed to be fun.
Apparently LaCava’s first interview wasn’t with Angelos, and he had a second one with Angelos. He was the only one of the four to have two interviews.
Very likely that the meeting with Angelos turned him off.
True
but as someone said, there are only 30 of those jobs around and you may not get a lot of chances.
but if you are being setup for failure why take a shot. Depo will probably never get another chance, but if he had said no to Frank, he probably would be sitting in some prime job right now.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
If Depo wants another chance in the big seat, he is young enough and smart enough, that he can get another chance
I am not sure he wants to be that guys
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Every cube and office
on my floor has a bowl of leftover candy
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
3 minor leaguers were suspended for 50 games today
for violating the minor league drug policy. One, an Arizona pitcher, is named Amilcar Arauz
with a moniker like that
You’d think he’d be able to Simsalabim his way out of it.
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
What did he do to Arauz suspicion?
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Can't be bothered to Link
but Jonah Keri sings “Ding Dong the Witch is Dead” about Frank McCourt over at Grantland
Let’s hope he is not prematurely popping his champagne
Concert Talk
Earth, Wind and Fire at the Forum (2x)
Billy Joel – Forum
Madonna, Robin Williams (literally laughed for a whole hour), Janet Jackson at the then Universal Amphitheater
Jacksons – Dodger Stadium
Bruce Springsteen, U2 at the Coliseum
Norah Jones at the Hollywood Bowl
Tony Bennett, Earth Wind and Fire at the Greek
I don’t think I have seen a concert at the Sports Arena
Indian sitar player – played with the Beatles. Deceased, IIRC.
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NOT deceased!
He is very much alive at 91, and still plays concerts.
…including one at Walt Disney Hall, LA just one month ago (Sept. 29)
I wonder who I was thinking of then. I will never know.
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he used to tour with his father who died in the mid 90s
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
and MUCH bigger than playing with the Beatles
he is is the shit
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, sure. But if you are a westerner who has no clue who he is, that is a starting point that you likely understand.
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At big venues I've seen
X, B-52s, Blasters at the Greek
Go-Gos at the Hollywood Bowl
Rolling Stones and Prince at the Coliseum
The Clash at the Palladium
Replacements and Lone Justice (separately) at the Hollywood Palace
Husker Du at Variety Arts Theater
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
I mean this in the best of ways
there is no way I can remember the concerts I have seen and where I have seen them
but I have been to a bunch
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I like that for all the clubs I've been to
and see some great bands. But I’ve really not been to a lot of large venue gigs.
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
I practically lived
at Madame Wong’s and the Hong Kong Cafe in Chinatown for awhile. Spent many a boozy night at:
The Whisky
The Starwood
The Roxy
Club 88
Flippers
Cathay de Grande
Rajis
The Central
Club Lingerie
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
you were there at the right time too
must have been a blast
I used to asst manage a pizza place and one of our drivers was a drummer in a hair band. I spent many a night at Gazzari’s watching him play and then partying afterword
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
We used to sneer at Gazzaris
because it was all hair bands
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
yes
music was terrible, but the times were fun
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I saw X and The Blaster in Ackerman Union’s Grand Ballroom at UCLA in 1981.
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Oh what fun!
Weezer, Pearl Jam, Weenie Roast – Irvine Amphitheater
Muse – Oracle Arena
Silversun Pickups – Greek Theater
The Libertines – The Filmore
Dashboard Confessional – Palladium, Troubadour
I forgot the Troubadore
I saw Bukowski read there
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
Last small venue concert was Lloyd Cole at McCabes.
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Donvoan – Hollywood Bowl
Grand Funk Railroad – Forum
Kiss – Forum
Deep Purple – Forum
Saw a whole bunch of bands at Newport ’69 at Devonshire Downs…..(pre Woodstock (by about a month)
Creedence, Lee Michaels, Love, Hendrix, Steppenwolf, Jethro Tull, The Rascals, Joe Cocker, Three Dog Night and a bunch more.
Baseball is a game, and games are supposed to be fun.
You are the only person I know who was at Newport ‘69. If I wasn’t two years old at the time, I would have loved to have been at that show
that show largely seems lost from Rock History
by Hollywood Joe on Nov 1, 2011 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
You have to dig hard to find any record of it.
Baseball is a game, and games are supposed to be fun.
I most recently read about it in this book, which was an enjoyable easy read about the history of the SFV.
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I believe my brother-in-law was there, having attended Valley State at the time.
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1 Clipper game at the Sports Arena
1 Kings game at the Forum
2 Kingsgames at Staples
Handful of Ice Dogs games
Badfish at House of Blues Anaheim
Green Day and Beastie Boys (separate concerts) at Long Beach Convention Center
Metallica at Arrowhead Pond
Bob Dylan at UCI
I’m sure there are some other ones mixed in there.
Badfish is the only concert I paid to see, the others I worked as part of CSC. Dylan at UCI was me driving to Irvine from Dominguez Hills with a teammate in his busted ass datsun in the pouring rain with windshield wipers that didn’t work only for them to tell us when we got there that because of the rain they overstaffed and didn’t need us.
kevin durant should quick basketball and play football instead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOIa20l6SXo&feature=share
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Yes
an EWF fan
More than ten but less than thirty Kings games I think at the Forum
Probably similar for Lakers.
Saw World Hockey league or Association game at Sports Arena, may have been to an ABA game there.
Didn’t see a lot of Clipper games at the Sports arena, less than 5.
Only a handful of Kings games at Staples.
Yet I haven’t heard you sing like Philip Bailey at a karaoke night yet. ;-)
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