Rafael Furcal Breaks Thumb In Win Over Giants
by Eric Stephen on Apr 11, 2011 10:34 PM PDT
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All the good feeling that came from the Dodgers' series opening win over the Giants at AT&T Park in San Francisco is gone. The Dodgers are 6-4 and have beaten their rivals in four of five games this season, but they may have lost their shortstop. Rafael Furcal broke his thumb in tonight's win, while sliding headfirst into third base in the fifth inning.
Furcal remained in the game, playing in the field for two more innings, but he was removed for pinch hitter Aaron Miles in the top of the seventh. The news of Furcal's thumb broke after the game, and this tweet from Dylan Hernandez sounds ominous, and hopefully was something only said out of frustration by Furcal:
Furcal has a broken finger. Said he's pondering retirement.
UPDATE (11:32pm): Based on various postgame reports (Ken Gurnick of MLB.com, Tony Jackson of ESPN LA, and Hernandez via Twitter), Furcal was indeed speaking out of frustration, a mood Gurnick described as "despondent."
Furcal was already battling an injured left wrist that has hampered him while swinging a bat, and he missed the last two games. The timetable for Furcal's return is not yet known, but it seems like Jamey Carroll is now the regular shortstop, and the Dodgers will likely promote another middle infielder once Furcal is placed on the disabled list. Will the club recall Ivan DeJesus, who struggled in his very brief stint in the opening week this season, or will Juan Castro, currently in Triple A Albuquerque, become a Dodger for the fourth time? Castro, unlike DeJesus, is not on the 40-man roster.
Furcal has a $12 million club option for 2012 that would automatically vest with 600 plate appearances this season. In addition, Furcal could earn an extra $1.3 million, either added as an option buyout or to his 2012 base salary if the option is exercised, with 1,600 combined plate appearances from 2009-2011. After tonight's game, Furcal is 464 plate appearances shy of that mark.
Furcal has averaged 94 games played and 424 plate appearances for the Dodgers over the last three seasons.
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The frustration of injury after injury is just piling up
Sleep on it Raffy
Angelofdeath? Ringing any bells? He's dead.
Writer and raving lunatic at Barca Blaugranes
Well, folks, I'm going to bed
thinking of rhymes for “thumb.”
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
dumb, as in sliding head first is…
Hating the Giants for going on a half century and counting!
by MammothDodger on Apr 11, 2011 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
and as in, dumb luck, too.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
For finger:
dinger, zinger, stinger, linger, singer, Pope Ratzinger, Jeff (or Kip) Winger, Jim Neidlinger…
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
How many games
will he likely miss? Broken thumb should be what, about 6 weeks? I have no idea. With the possibility of lingering.
depends on where it is
very critical to the swing
by Hollywood Joe on Apr 11, 2011 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Bummed for Raffy
I have been busting tail working tonight, came over here for a little happiness and now I just feel like going to bed
wonderful
"What doesn't kill you might injure you, or just kill you later." -Czheck Proverb
"Pluto’s not even a planet no more, which I’m very disturbed about. I grew up when Pluto was a planet. Now, I’m 25, I turn around and Pluto’s no longer a planet. I’m going to elbow that guy in the nose." -Ron Artest
Joe Block is a pretty awful analyst. Said Kershaw has gone from a thrower/decent pitcher to an oustanding pitcher.
I actually miss Ken Levine. BTW, I think Levine’s voice is eerily similar to Dick Cavett’s.
by silverwidow on Apr 11, 2011 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions
if the Jays can hang on
it will be the fist time since 1890 that the road team has won every game on a day that at least 10 games were played.
Hating the Giants for going on a half century and counting!
I don’t think the Mariners can knock a run in from third base. It’s going to take three walks for them to score. :)
TOR 7-6, B9th, 1 out, runner on third.
IDJ
is probably collecting his things since he will be staying for a while.
by bhsportsguy on Apr 11, 2011 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
oh well
don’t get some history cause the jays blow a 7 run lead
Hating the Giants for going on a half century and counting!
by MammothDodger on Apr 11, 2011 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Just got in the door
when i saw Dylan’s tweet about Furcal. Oh my God that sucks.
"Champions last year," he said. "Not this year." - Rubby De La Rosa after shaming the Giants in ST
Yeah no kidding. What a fucking drag. He didn’t look like he was hurt on that play. Man he player through it. I was surprised when Miles was announced.
"Champions last year," he said. "Not this year." - Rubby De La Rosa after shaming the Giants in ST
I had assumed like a lot of people probably did that his wrist was bothering him again
Didn’t see this coming. Bleh.
I predict IDJ gets the call but you have to wonder if another move could come at some point.
Hopefully Blake is back asap at least.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
God I hope its not Castro
Please be IDJ. I would rather he be there than Castro. Or Christ, Miles.
"Champions last year," he said. "Not this year." - Rubby De La Rosa after shaming the Giants in ST
Yeah I feel bad for us and I feel bad for Raffy.
He just has been snakebit this year (and in general). It’s a bummer because when he IS healthy, he really makes the offense go a lot more than it otherwise does. And he’s got such a great arm at SS.
This really puts a damper on the excitement about winning tonight. I would gladly have him called out at 3rd, or not slide in there at all, if we could exchange it for the injury.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
This does suck..
But.. it seems like we have the depth to absorb it. Blakes back, so Uribe can probably play SS. I dont who is better at short, Carroll or Uribe. I guess it’s IDJ at second? We dont really have a lead off hitter though now.., or a #2 for that matter.., and that part sucks. Im sure all the watching eyes are on Dee Gordon.
he struck out 4 times today
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on Apr 11, 2011 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions
ouch
Hating the Giants for going on a half century and counting!
by MammothDodger on Apr 11, 2011 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions
but did get a single and an hbp
so yay
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on Apr 11, 2011 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions
6 PA!?!
Hating the Giants for going on a half century and counting!
by MammothDodger on Apr 11, 2011 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Sands is far and away our best prospect RIGHT NOW
Would want to see what he does away from ABQ…
by Julio Nievas on Apr 11, 2011 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions
check out his stats
from last year at Great Lakes and Chattanooga and then in the AFL. He’s for real.
I think DeJesus will get the call
and the “regular” lineup will have Blake at 3B, Carroll at SS, and Carroll at 2B. They will move around as players get rest, but that will be the position alignment most days IMO.
But Blake still needs his rest, and Carroll will probably need a rest every now and then, same with Uribe. So they need someone who can play (yes I know Miles is here).
The only question on IDJ is if management has soured on him because of the early strikeouts. I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see Castro, though I do think IDJ has the edge.
by Eric Stephen on Apr 11, 2011 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions
the gamer is good playing both
4 and 6 spot
Hating the Giants for going on a half century and counting!
by MammothDodger on Apr 11, 2011 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Castro is my guess
Predicting Furcal to 60-Day DL tomorrow to make room.
by silverwidow on Apr 11, 2011 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s the easiest way to put Castro on the roster without losing another player. Furcal will be out at least two months anyway. Thumb injuries are very bad.
by silverwidow on Apr 11, 2011 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay
I forgot we have useless Russ Mitchell still on the 40-man.
New guess: Mitchell DFA’d for Castro.
by silverwidow on Apr 11, 2011 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions
No way Furcal goes on the 60-day right away
He’s going to see a doctor in LA tomorrow, and the usual recovery is six weeks.
I’m not saying Castro wouldn’t be the call, but it’s unlikely that the corresponding move will be Furcal to the 60-day.
by Eric Stephen on Apr 11, 2011 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
THought I’d mention, the vibe at the stadium was the same as always. But it felt a little tense, like people were wary of starting any shit. At least within the park. Though there were fewer Dodger fans in full on Dodger gear or even in caps than in previous years. I think the ribbing that I did see was good natured at the beginning of the game. I was a little disappointed that a lot of the giants fans booed even during the pregame ceremony asking for respect. The walk back to the car was a little more intense. Heard several comments of wanting to punch a Dodger fan in the face or put one in a coma. Kinda felt that was a silly thing to say especially given what has gone down recently.
Oh and cops everywhere.
"Champions last year," he said. "Not this year." - Rubby De La Rosa after shaming the Giants in ST
Funny stuff
It probably helped that the Dodgers had the game in hand by the 7th inning so the intensity died down by the time you left
by bhsportsguy on Apr 11, 2011 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha just saw the Pierre dropped ball highlight. High larious!
"Champions last year," he said. "Not this year." - Rubby De La Rosa after shaming the Giants in ST
That was a brutal play. Hawk was so pissed.
by Eric Stephen on Apr 11, 2011 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions
He hit his 3rd homerun of the year right?
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
I've seen all of Sands HR's so far this year
He is not hitting flies that are carrying through the air. He’s hitting shots. Two have been opposite field blasts that were crushed.
Latest on Raffy
Gurnick writes:
Typically, that injury can mean a recovery of four to six weeks, but more will be known Tuesday when he sees a hand specialist.
“It’s broken,” a despondent Furcal said of the thumb that was in a metal splint. "I got to see the doctor tomorrow in L.A. It’s bad. Two days off and come back and break my finger. “I think about retiring if I’m not healthy. I feel so good with my back, now this — what do you think I am thinking?”
Of the writers there that would have asked the “What are you thinking?” question that would have elicited the last sentence of the response from Furcal, I would guess Shelburne.
by Eric Stephen on Apr 11, 2011 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Sheesh not only is the thumb broken
Furcal himself sounds broken
Angelofdeath? Ringing any bells? He's dead.
Writer and raving lunatic at Barca Blaugranes
From those quotes it’s clear that he said it in the heat of the moment.
by Julio Nievas on Apr 11, 2011 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not a psychologist, but I feel like one right now
Re: Furcal’s injury tonight.
1. Denial
ie – The thumb is fine leave me in the game.
2. Anger
ie – I feel so good with my back, now this.
3. Bargaining
ie – Just let me play one more year.
4. Depression
ie – What’s the point, I mind as well retire.
5. Acceptance
ie – I will train hard to get back on the field as soon as possible to help my teammates out.
by Xeifrank on Apr 11, 2011 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Of all the predictable things that has happened to the Dodgers this year, isn’t this really one of the predictablest? I’ve gotta think that the retirement talk is temporary, but this does in fact suck.
Wonder if Seattle will be looking to dump Jack Wilson on the cheap though. He’s not good, but he is certainly preferable to Castro. If they can get Seattle to pay a (not as large as I might personally like) chunk of his salary and trade a 20-30ish prospect (Lindblom?), that could work.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
What do you guys think about trading for Michael Young?
I know they would have to eat a shit load of contract, but he could take over at 3B next year for Blake too and be a nice addition to the lineup. If we could get Young he could play 2B, Booribe could play SS and Carroll could play SS when Blake sits or plays 1B, if that happens.
Thoughts?
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Rangers wouldn’t eat enough contract and Dodgers wouldn’t be willing to trade enough to make the Rangers happy.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
by Nolij on Apr 11, 2011 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I figure that would be a combo problem. What portion of contract would have to be eaten for the Dodgers to want to do any deals do you think?
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
If I had to guess, the Dodgers would need the Rangers to eat something like $30M of the $48M left. The Rangers wouldn’t do that under any circumstances. The Rangers would need the Dodgers to give up something like Jansen, Rubby and Trayvon, and possibly find another team to get them one more ML-level pitcher. I don’t see that happening either.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
There's absolutely no way they would expect a haul like that
I know it would take one of our 3 best, which isn’t worth it anyway, though.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Have you read the reports out of Texas? They certainly would. And even with that haul, probably wouldn’t offer more than $12M or so.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Last I heard they were willing to eat half the contract
But that was near the end of ST I believe.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Where did you hear that?
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Might have been MLBTR
not sure at the moment.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
This is what I said about trading for Young
Sure, I would love to have Michael Young on the team. In my mind, he would be an upgrade over Gibbons/Thames in LF, but it’s not an idea I’m totally behind. There are several caveats with Young:
1) Salary; Young is due $48 million over the next three years, which means Texas would have to eat over half to make this even feasible
2) Defense; Young is not a good defender. Not at SS. Not at 2B. Not at 3B.
3) Offense; He hit .260/.299/.380 on the road in 2010, and has a .733 career OPS on the road compared to .859 in Texas
Is Michael Young an upgrade over either Casey Blake at 3B, or Gibbons/Thames in LF? Probably. But it’s not something I’d bet on, or give up anything of value to get unless Texas would eat something like 75% of the remaining money (which seems highly unlikely).
by Eric Stephen on Apr 11, 2011 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
What would you say if they ate 30 million
I don’t know if that would even be possible, but right now, from what I’m told, he’s platooning at 1B. And is that just a total and complete delusion to think they would eat that much? Or would that just take one or two of our best prospects to do?
As for the offense, i think nearly everyone just hits better at home than on the road, and that’s probly the case with Young. Though I’m sure Texas has a big part to do with it.
It’s too bad getting Young is not really doable, he’d sure be nice to have.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
He might be platooning at 1b, but hes in their lineup everyday. Napoli should be their primary DH, but Young is getting all of those ABs. Personally, I wouldnt want him on the squad at the cost of paying his slaary or giving up players. He’s old, a product of his home park, and cant field. He would really add very little to the team.
by UCLADodger32 on Apr 11, 2011 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Well if you're just gonna bring facts into a conversation...
lol. Good points.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
He has 42 PA and has played in every game
So while they may have wanted to trade him, right now, he’s playing every day so I don’t think he is available.
by bhsportsguy on Apr 12, 2011 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions
The Rangers shouldn’t trade him and the Dodgers shouldn’t ever consider trading for him.
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
by NotJoeTorre on Apr 12, 2011 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Epiphany
If somehow the Rangers were to eat $27M of that contract, the Dodgers would still owe him 3 years and $21M. That is Juan Uribe money for a player who, in sum total, is not significantly better than Juan Uribe right now. And we thought the Juan Uribe contract sucked. And this still requires that the Rangers eat more than half of his salary.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
And get something very nice from our Triple A team.
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
by NotJoeTorre on Apr 12, 2011 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I would VERY MUCH say that Michael Young would be a better player than Juan Uribe
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
how so?
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
by NotJoeTorre on Apr 12, 2011 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions
By the fact that one is better than the other?
Last 5 years of WAR:
3.9
2.4
2.4
3.9
2.7
1.2
.3
.2
2.8
3.2
Take a stab at who is who.
The difference between the guys is that for some reason Uribe is a pretty good fielder, but NOWHERE near as good of a hitter as Young. This, of course, is not factoring in Texas home cooking, but even so I would say that Young is a good margin ahead of Uribe as a hitter.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Did you think the Angels got a good player in Vernon Wells?
Look at his WAR over the past 5 seasons.
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
by NotJoeTorre on Apr 12, 2011 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Wells is in the same boat. Fine player, ridiculous contract.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Wells isn't really like Young
Wells had a career year, got paid for it, then has had only 1 good year since in 4 seasons. Michael young has had pretty consistently above average to good years, though nothing spectacular. He hasn’t had a high peak like Wells, or anything near the fall that Wells had.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Huh?
Vernon Wells was a #1 pick, a highly-rated prospect, crushed in the minors and kicked ass at 24. Had a couple solid years, then broke out at 27. The Jays gambled that he had put it all together, and paid a ridiculous price for it. This is what you have to do when you’re Toronto and know you will not get free agents. They obviously hitched their wagon to the wrong horse, but he wasn’t paid for a career year. They banked on him being the face of their franchise. Unfortunately, he was, for the wrong reasons.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Wells was somewhat similar to Young if you look at the beginning of Wells' Career, but not the last 5 years
Which would be the current Wells we see. Michael young has had a handful of mid 2 WAR seasons, and 3 high 3 or low 4 WAR seasons. Basically averaged out he is a 3 WAR player over the last 8 years. Wells had 3 straight years in the 3 WAR range, then had a giant year in 2006, but has gone very far down then shot right up last year. Young has been a lot more consistent than Wells the last half decade.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Young OPS+ 105, Wells OPS+ 108. You can call them totally different if you want, but they are both decent players with indecent contracts. That much really shouldn’t be argued.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
That's not the point I was arguing
Yes, the OPS+ are very identical, especially in those last 5 years. The difference is Wells did the bulk of his hitting in the first and last year of the span, while Michael Young was doing, for the most part, pretty consistent hitting throughout.
My point is that Wells really anchored the Jays lineup greatly 2 years in that time, but hurt them a ton the 3 years inbetween. Young could have hit 2, 5, or 6 any of those years and helped the lineup for the Rangers.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wellsve01.shtml#2006-2010-sum:batting_standard
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wellsve01.shtml#2006-2010-sum:batting_standard
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
It's been shit for the most part
5.7
1.5
1.5
0
4
Inconsistent as hell. Nothing like Michael Young.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Clearly it's not worth it to get him if we had to trade top prospects for him and pay most of his contract, you're right
But I know Young is better than the options we have got at 2b and SS right now. Too bad the situation isn’t different to get him.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Young is so bad at SS its not funny
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
by NotJoeTorre on Apr 12, 2011 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not advocating Young at SS
I’d like him at 2B or 3B. We wouldn’t get good defense, I do realize that. It’s the bat I like.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
I don’t think his bat would overcome his terrible defense. Plus it’s not like he has much power anymore as his ISO numbers are low.
by Julio Nievas on Apr 12, 2011 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions
True, his slugging is going down, though the last two season's it's been up
I’m a big fan of the 180 hits a year he gets though. That would be really useful in this lineup with people who never get on base (hyperbole alert!!!).
Also, though it’s not good, he’s been around -5 to -7 UZR the last 3 years. Though not as good as Uribe let’s say, not terrible as the reputation he gets from his 04-07 days (strangely with an average year in 06).
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
The team needs Uribe’s power more than it needs Young’s gamerness. Also, Uribe is better defensively. I like Young better than Uribe, but he wouldn’t add a lot more to the Dodgers.
Put another way,
Value(Young – Uribe) < $9M/year
I’d put that difference at about $2M tops. But that part’s sort of moot, since Uribe wouldn’t be in the trade. You could make a real argument in the offseason that Ned should have targeted Young instead of Uribe, but right now, he doesn’t really help our ballclub.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Why are people all up on that guy?
0 2 0 0 1 3 .270 .289 .351 .641 75
by DodgersKings323 on Apr 12, 2011 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Are you listing his 2011 stats like that's really the hitter he is?
Because I’d love to make a trade with you in fantasy if you’ve got Albert Pujols on your team.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
The hitter that he really is is not exceptional. He is good, his contract is not. There is almost no way within the Dodgers means to reconcile that.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Loney is getting paid 5 million to be a garbage hitter and play great defense.
But their offense is really the same
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
by NotJoeTorre on Apr 12, 2011 12:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Not the last 3 years
Loney has been on a very apparent downward trend. His career numbers only look the way they do because of 2006 and 2007. It’s almost like he was Russell Martin before Russell Martin was Russell Martin, lol.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
You could same the exact thing about Young, he mashed in 2005 and 2009 and has been pretty average is not below average every other year. Hes getting paid like an elite player.
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
by NotJoeTorre on Apr 12, 2011 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions
He was above average in 2006 and 2007
Then near to above average in 2008 and 2010. The only year Loney has been above average is when he was pretty damned good in 2007. 2007 Loney makes me sad.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Career road OPS+ is 84. I’m too lazy to look up year by year, but that’s gotta include a lot of not goods. Also, he’s 34.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
I wasn't looking for a long term solution
Just someone who could play this and next year, then pretty much do what Blake is doing for us this year. I know the road numbers won’t get better, I don’t expect them to, especially not in our division. His last two years have been pretty good offensively though, I think he’d be a really good number 2 or 5 hitter in our lineup.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Young career wOBA is .346, ISO is .148
Loney career wOBA is .336, ISO is .148
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
Everyone hates Loney
Loney should hate DS
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
I don't hate Loney
It’s just hard to see someone slugging south of .400 man first base.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Loney is on a really terrible downward trend
His career numbers are really helped by his first two years. He hasn’t slugged within .030 points of his career slugging percentage since 2008.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Just a thought
Loney and sum cash for Justin Smoak of Sea.
He's better than Loney
Most definitely. Now if Dodger Stadium zapped him of his power like Loney, then yeah, but I don’t know if that’s the case for sure.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
You rather have Micheal Young at 1st base than Loney?
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
by NotJoeTorre on Apr 12, 2011 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions
He's more valuable at 2B/SS/possibly 3B than Loney is at 1B
But him at 1B and Loney provides more value because of his great defense there. I DEFINITELY would not want Michael Young here to play 1B.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Any of his value is gone at that point
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
I disagree with that
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
by NotJoeTorre on Apr 12, 2011 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Give me something back to try and prove it
I’m up for a good debate.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
IMO
Micheal Young would hit worse than Loney and play shitty defense at multiple positions were defense is valued.
That is basically it.
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
I think that “shitty defense” is a little harsh for what Young has done the last 3 years. Under average, yeah. Shitty, idk. If the trends continue, Loney is going to be a very, very good fielder while providing very, very little value with the bat.
If Loney can start producing at the level of say:
.280/.350/.440 then most definitely he will be more valuable than MY. Problem is, the last 3 years he hasn’t really shown that he can do all that in the same season.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Shitty defense
is when you’re moved off SS, moved off 2nd, moved off 3rd, and then turned into a super sub who will DH for a championship caliber club. Understandable the Rangers got a awesome left side of the infield with the glove but a good defender isn’t getting shuffled around.
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
I don't care if a player is moved
Ethier SHOULD be moved to LF but he hasn’t, does that mean he’s a good fielder in RF?
I’m looking at the numbers for UZR, and though they aren’t good, they aren’t shitty. Also they had Kinsler, Andrus, and Beltre. Not exactly like he’s being moved for bad fielders.
He’s not a good fielder, not above average, not average, but i would say in the middle of bad to below average.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
"middle of bad to below average."
That combined with Dodger Stadium ruining his slash line, would make MY a bad player.. no?
“I don’t care if a player is moved
Ethier SHOULD be moved to LF but he hasn’t, does that mean he’s a good fielder in RF?"
Not sure why that matters but I don’t disagree
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
Maybe, maybe not
He isn’t much of a homerun hitter, so he’d still get a ton of singles and doubles like normal I’d think.
As for the moving positions part, I was just saying that MY isn’t a bad fielder just because he’s been moved, just like Ethier isn’t a good fielder just because he’s stayed there.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Oh I agree
He’s not a great bat. He’s good. Everything you say here I agree with 100 percent.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
I understand we need power
But not really at the expense of getting on base. Young has nearly .050 points more OBP in his career, which I’d be glad to take with only maybe 10-12 less homeruns when he can get 170 plus hits in a year and 30 plus doubles.
Clearly michael young is overpaid, not a good fielder, and not a great hitter outside of Texas. But I think he will still be above average hitter as a Dodger, while Uribe has shown to be above average exactly twice in his career since his rookie season a decade ago.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Home/Road Splits have been mentioned somewhere before, he is a product of a hitter’s park.
by DodgersKings323 on Apr 12, 2011 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I believe most hitters are better at home than on the road
Yes Texas helped a lot, and he wouldn’t hit to a tune of an .860 OPS at Dodger Stadium, but I don’t see .810 or so being out of the realm of possibility.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Loney is better on the road than at home, maybe cause he plays in a pitcher’s park?
by DodgersKings323 on Apr 12, 2011 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Road Loney
he is real
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
by NotJoeTorre on Apr 12, 2011 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope we see him soon
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Loney is an exception
Clearly. Adrian Gonzalez is another one. I bet if we took a look at Kemp and Ethier’s numbers they would be better at home than away.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
The candidates to be on the Dodgers during Furcal's absence
1. DeJesus
2. Castro
That is it.
by bhsportsguy on Apr 12, 2011 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Uribe is below average, but above average relative to last year’s crappy free agent market. Michael Young may even be slightly above average, but his contract makes him unfathomable.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
I wouldn't even say that
Sure there wasn’t much out there, but that doesn’t make him above average just because of that fact. I get that he gives us a lot of versatility, much like Carroll, being able to play so many positions, it’s just hard to swallow a guy with a .299 OBP.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
I wonder what Ned would of offered Young on the open market last season..
Because MY seems like he would be a Ned guy, for sure.
Glad we will never find that out.
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
by NotJoeTorre on Apr 12, 2011 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd be afraid to see how high that number would go
The problem with my whole argument here is that I only like Michael young if we are paying him 6-8 million for each of the next 3 years. If, in my little hypothetical sit-i-ation, he were making 10+ mill with us, I would really not like it.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Not a good first game for Ethan Martin
1+ innings 6 runs, 6 hits, 2 walks. He did also strike out 2 of the 12 batters he faced.
Time to go rib some Jays fan i warned about signing DoteLOL
by DodgersKings323 on Apr 12, 2011 12:42 AM PDT reply actions
Hasn't today taught us anything about
ribbing anyone.
by bhsportsguy on Apr 12, 2011 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking if he could finally put it together while being in AA
Maybe, JUST maybe, he could still be the future 3B for us.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Really really big IF. Even if he does smash, I don’t think it will be enough.
by Julio Nievas on Apr 12, 2011 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions
What makes you say that
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
I'm a little confused by that one, lol
Are you saying Sands will be our stud 3b??? :)
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
I’m saying Sands had a monster year but still isn’t in the majors right now.
by Julio Nievas on Apr 12, 2011 1:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh ok
I don’t think we would see Baez for at least 2 more years in the majors anyway, just because he’s never had a constant level of success.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
He's a really good fielder isn't he?
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
He’s not a good fielder, but he has a gun.
by Julio Nievas on Apr 12, 2011 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions
That's right, that's what it was
Basically Furcal just at 3b?
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Nevermind, Furcal's a good fielder
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Pedro Baez
Dodgers bullpen 2012 or bust.
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
For that to happen, he would’ve became a pitcher already.
by Julio Nievas on Apr 12, 2011 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions
sometimes i feel raffy brought some bad karma with him the way he spurned the atl offer all those years ago at the last second. IDJ is overmatched, castro plain sucks. we’re in trouble here.
If Blake can stay healthy
I think/hope/beg Carroll and Uribe can hold down the middle for a while.
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
by NotJoeTorre on Apr 12, 2011 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I actually think they can, btw. Carroll is the man.
Welcome to Thameswood / You'll be the first to go, unless you think
by NotJoeTorre on Apr 12, 2011 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Carroll is the man
but his numbers wont last.
by Julio Nievas on Apr 12, 2011 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions
This is why you don't trade Hu for no good reason.
Giving away a young player who plays the position of your most injury prone player is simply not a good idea. No the rising presence of Dee Gordon is not justification. Hu could have maintained the depth at the position for years to come.
SERIOUSLY?!?!
Oh good lord. Hu would have been DFAed before the year started because he was out of options. As much as Miles sucks, I’d rather have his empty .280 BA over Hu’s empty .180.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
By calling it empty I assume he means crappy OBP and slugging
So it wouldn’t be overvaluing batting average.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Do you need me to flesh it out?
Miles .280/.290/.300
Hu .180/.160/.180
Miles sucks. Hu sucks more. That is not a question.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Here are Hu's 2011 projections
Marcel .237 .303 .358 4 sb
ZIPS .255 .288 .341 7 sb
combine that offense (not so far off Uribe in fact) with strong D, and you have a fine fill in SS and then some.
I'd rather just ride Carroll than see that line
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
I think the Dodgers will be OK with Uribe, Carroll, and Dejesus playing. I am simply revisiting the mistep the Dodgers made in discarding a player who would proivde DEPTH (key word depth) at a position that needed it.
If an organization constantly discards talent without proper reason (as the Dodgers do) then they will end up with a minimal return on the investments they spend on developing players.
You are right in that the Dodgers do let talent go where they do seem useful
Cody Ross and Delwyn Young come to mind. Though Young clearly turned out never to be anything very useful, I thought a guy who could hit 50 doubles in a season in the minors could amount to something, even if it’s just a bench bat, especially when we had Sweeney then Loretta off the bench. Ross I hated losing at the time, and he’s proven a pretty decent player, though wouldn’t have been able to start over Kemp or Ethier.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
.100 points of slugging is pretty far off. And there’s no way in hell Hu puts up those numbers. None at all.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Hu has never shown anything the majors offensively
I honestly think he’d have a hard time putting up the numbers you posted.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
thats why you need to more throughly study the career paths of mlb players that r not stars . Particulairly those of the SS variety.
Did I mention Hu’s GLOVE?
I know about Hu's glove
I understand defense should be valued. But with a team already starved for offense throwing Hu out there just because of his glove is not the answer.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
value is value it matters not in what form it comes. You dont sub one guy in just because the overally team lacks his talents if there is an overall superior player as an alternative
Perhaps I should remind you that if there is one thing weaker on this Dodger roster than offense, it’s defense.
Before furcal went down, and even now
The infield defense will actually be very good. The outfield with Gywnn out there is also not terrible as it was last year. I think Kemp is better than last year out there, so the defense isn’t as bad as you’re making it out to be.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Sure, but we're talking about the difference between a backup SS, and a high paid starter.
The return is not expected to be equal. Nor does it need to be in order for there to be significant value.
Miles and Hu are both making essentially the same peanuts this year. I can’t keep arguing with you here. Enjoy this point of view. I will sleep it off and pretend it was a bad dream.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Hu had long term value in that he could potentially remain a major leaguer for many years. Cant possibly say that about Miles.
Hu is about a billion times better than Miles on defense and has modest potential. At this point in his career Miles has no potential.
They r not similar players
He showed some potential with the bat last year
But it may have only been because of hitting in the league he was in. He couldn’t walk very well, either. A glove can carry you throughout many years in the MLB, just take a look at Cesar Izturis, but I’m not sure I’d want him at ss on the Dodgers because of his lack of a bat.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
That's why I'm saying he would have been a good emergency SS......you know like when your starter is injured and starts talking of retirement.....
When did I give Hu the starting gig?
Calm down bro
Hu isn’t any good, because his offensive value drags down his defensive value.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Hu couldn't have handled SS right now
I’m not sure he ever can
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Garrett Gould did pretty good today
6 IP, 4 H, 2 BB, 4 K, win
Jake Lemmerman homered, but continued his slow start.
I’m out
It would be very nice to see Gould blossom this year
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
Is there anyone alive out theeeerrreeee
Is there anyone aliiivveee out theeerreee
Urgent!
Which poster would you pick? BnW or Color?
http://www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?startat=/getposter.asp&APNum=4117983&CID=DB448B1830FB47A281CAD089A0AE17BE&PPID=1&Search=fans%20hot%20dog&f=t&FindID=0&P=1&PP=4&sortby=PD&c=c&page=1
http://www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?startat=/getposter.asp&APNum=5143640&CID=DB448B1830FB47A281CAD089A0AE17BE&PPID=1&Search=fans%20hot%20dog&f=t&FindID=0&P=1&PP=4&sortby=PD&c=c&page=1
by DodgersKings323 on Apr 12, 2011 1:34 AM PDT reply actions
I like the top one better
The 2nd one looks more authentic though.
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
BnW has more pizzzazzz, plus the others will also be BnW i’ll go with that one! :P
by DodgersKings323 on Apr 12, 2011 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Furcal reaction
I’m oddly untroubled by this news. On the bright side, I think it [should] officially end any debate about whether he’ll be back in 2012. There’s just no way we keep re-upping this guy. Six years in blue is a good run.
Next, it allows us to use our shiny new asset Juan Uribe in a way that highlights his utility. As far as I’m concerned, give him the SS job while Furcal’s out and patch-work 2b as needed with Carroll and IDJ2.
Lastly, I think the real winner could be Gywnn. Let him have the starting job and see what he can do. I know the intelligensia here is opposed to his batting at the top of the lineup (#1 or #2), but D2X seems fixated on batting him there.
[Final note: I also think this could help reign in the deadline-deal-happy Colletti, who might now view a healthy Furcal as a second-half addition he won’t have to sacrifice talent to acquire.]
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