Scott Elbert To Join Dodgers In Pittsburgh, Presumably To Replace Blake Hawksworth
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 9:08 AM PDT
in Los Angeles Dodgers Roster
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It appears that last night's groin injury to Blake Hawksworth will be the latest in a long line of Dodgers on the disabled list this season. Though nothing has yet been announced by the club, Scott Elbert will join the Dodgers in Pittsburgh tonight. The obvious move seems to be Hawksworth to the disabled list, pending an MRI this morning.
Elbert nearly made the club out of spring training, but fell victim to having options while Lance Cormier didn't. If you are keeping score at home, Cormier -- who the Dodgers won't pitch unless the game is completely out of reach one way or another -- has been kept over both Elbert and Kenley Jansen at times this season. Elbert has a 5.02 ERA in 13 games with Triple A this season, with nine walks and 16 strikeouts in 14 2/3 innings. Elbert last pitched Monday night, his only appearance in the last four days.
Hawksworth would be the 11th Dodger to be placed on the disabled list this season.
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C'mon Scott
stick around this time.
Hopefully DX2 will give him more rope than he’s previously had.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on May 11, 2011 9:14 AM PDT reply actions
Appropriate amount of rope:
Enough to hold onto to pull yourself out of quicksand, not enough to hang yourself when the nights get lonely and the bottle goes empty.
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
yeah
what he said
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on May 11, 2011 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t that take extra rope, not less?
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
With Elbert, Kuo, Jansen, and MacDougal, that’s four guys who throw harder than sin but currently have no idea where the ball is going.
He had a good run.
/that’s a painful thing to type knowing that it might be true
by Michael White on May 11, 2011 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
not like this...
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Either is Elbert. When he transitioned from starter to relief I thought he’d bump that fastball up, but it does not appear to have happened.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Perhaps he is holding back because of his control problems
if he can ever get them under control maybe he can start putting some more oomph behind it?
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Is it wrong that even with an 8 run lead
I was nervous with Cormier in the game?
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
He did what Russ Ortiz could not
Faint praise, I know.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
lol
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on May 11, 2011 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I am nervous with him on the roster. I literally picture Lolance with a gun hidden inside Ned’s Member’s Only jacket pushing him around, reminding Ned to assure everyone around that it’s cool as they make a withdrawal from the bank.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
I was worried we'd have to burn more bullpen
But was pretty happy when that 8th run of the game crossed the plate.
Didn’t he give up a run? I mean, he did the job, but it wasn’t without incident.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
he was pitching with a lead :-p
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Lindblom
has been outstanding in relief.
He’s next in line, IMO, because:
a) He needs to be added in November anyway
b) D2X has seen him enough the past few springs
c) Tron & German suck, Link has a low ceiling, and Guerra’s track record isn’t that good
Is it? He had 1.5 really good years with the Dodgers and that’s about it.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Ya, I don’t know. He stuck around for a bunch of years and is not terrible. His post-Dodgers years were pretty brutal though, so maybe I’ve got some bias from the games I remember.
by Michael White on May 11, 2011 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
He had great numbers with the Dodgers. His best ERA with another team is 4.15.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Using WAR for a relief pitcher are we?
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Point is that almost all of Mota’s value came from 2003-2004 which is totally true.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Had a brief exchange with G. Scott in his fanpost to this end. He has had an eerily similar career to Juan Cruz (and Felix Rodriguez) yet he is considered to have been “good” while Cruz has been considered “bad.”
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Juan Cruz never had a year and a half where he was arguably the best reliever in baseball.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Neither did Mota. He was very, very good for that span with the Dodgers. He still wasn’t close to the best reliever on his team.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
He wasn’t much worse than Gagne and pitched 25% more innings. He was close.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Not very fair given it was Gagne, if it was not Gagne he easily would have been on just about every team in the majors that year.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
He said “arguably the best reliever in baseball.” There is no argument. I was fair.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
At one point I remember Mota being better than Gagne in most counting stats that didn’t account for leverage because he threw 20 more innings, but I’m wrong.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
that was a correct memory.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
The Gagne-Mota-Quatrill trio was as good as I have ever seen in a Dodger bullpen.
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Saito-Broxton-Kuo came close when all three were healthy enough for a few months in 2008
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
historical though I’m sure the LaDuca/Gagne chem class had nothing to do with the fact they all had career years at the same time.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I miss Prokopec, but that deal was brilliant for the Dodgers across the board. That was an awesome ‘pen. Wasn’t Shuey also here at that time? He was solid too.
Is it possible that Tracy was actually a good bullpen manager?
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Tom Martin in 2003 inherited 42 runners. Five scored.
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
What was 2003 like? I was on my sabbatical and I saw no games that year.
Was it completely frustrating, or was it kind of great to watch an all-time pitching staff at work?
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on May 11, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
It was fun to watch that team
and also frustrating.
When the other team was batting, the Dodgers had a non-outrageous claim to being one of the best teams of all time.
When the Dodgers were batting, they looked like one of the worst teams of all-time.
But that pitching staff, top to bottom, was simply great to watch. Well worth the price of admission.
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Co-sign. 2002 and 2003 were the years I really came back to being a hardcore fan. As such, I tend to romanticize those teams (and also merge the two in my mind.)
As a fan, you were never worried the bullpen would blow the save. It was incredible.
by Michael White on May 11, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
We paid for that in 2010
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
- in ERA, SHO, SV, R, ER, H and HRA.
- in BA, OBP, SLUG, OPS, R and BB.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Ugh. #1 first row. #2 second row.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
From a ERA+ perspective, that team really looks brilliant considering this was the prime Barry years where he was just killing the ball. Right in the middle of the steroid hitting era.
by Michael White on May 11, 2011 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Team ERA+ of 128
Some of the superstars:
Starters
Brown: 169
Nomo: 131
Alvarez: 171
Relievers
Gagne: 337
Mota: 205
Quantrill: 232
Shuey: 135
Martin: 115
by Michael White on May 11, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I decided to look up 2011
Because I admit I did not know these numbers off the top of my head.
ERA+ of 85, OPS+ of 96.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on May 11, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
At least one of those relievers was also juiced.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I trust lots of pitchers juiced. I was using steroid era as shorthand for “extreme hitters environment of the early 2000s”
by Michael White on May 11, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
If Beltre had done 2004 in 2003 who knows how far they might have gone with that pitching.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Beltre at an MVP level, 2003 Green put up a 116 OPS+. Just those two along with that staff and they win 90+ games.
Of course, the 2002 Dodgers won 92 games and finished in 3rd in the West, so it might not have mattered.
by Michael White on May 11, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
The 2003 World Champion Marlins were 91-71 wild card winners. I’ll take it! :)
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Great image of Pudge II holding the ball in his hand as the final out of the series against SF
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Absolutely. Desktop wallpaper material
by Michael White on May 11, 2011 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s not hard to manage a bullpen when no matter who you put in there, they get the results. He and Dan Evans hit the reliever super lotto that year.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Cruz had an excellent arm at one, just never converted it to production. His best year was as a starter, never did much in relief. Hard to compare the two since Cruz has made 38 starts. If you look at what they have done as relief pitchers, I think Mota has had by far the more successful tenure simply because of his outstanding run with the Dodgers.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
hope every day he sends a text to Brad Ausmus
“thx agin for teh help, u my bff, ttyl!”
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on May 11, 2011 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Since that game in Florida in May 2009
Mota has pitched 126 innings in 117 games, with a 2.93 ERA with 2.7 BB/9 and 6.4 K/9
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Giants bullpen has a collective 2.73 ERA so far. Gotta love that even though their bullpen has been great, with 8.3 K/9 and 2.58 K/BB, yet both K/9 and BB/9 are topped by their starters!
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions
No, I don’t. What I love is that even though the bullpen has been great, and the rotation better, they still suck.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
yeah i enjoy that as well
and i expect their pen to have some more downs than they’ve had so far…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
It may be possible that huff, burrell, and torres were only on one-year deals with the devil
Also, lol tejada, simply unbelievable move by sabean, who saw his “sign aging veterans” strategy validated last year… The only tiny silver lining to their ’ship is that idiot now has a lifetime pass
by lchristmas on May 11, 2011 10:14 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The Dodgers strength was going to be all about pitching but at this moment if you use Fangraphs WAR, we are even below the Diamondbacks, only above the Mets and Astro’s in total pitching. 10th in starting, dead last in relief.
Luckily we have the offense to overcome this pitching problem.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
is the bullpen
that’s killing us?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on May 11, 2011 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes. 10th in starting is by no means bad. Dead last in relief is bad.
by Michael White on May 11, 2011 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
10th out of 16th may not be bad but it is not acceptable when you have had no injuries to use as an excuse.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Heh
not 10th in the majors, eh? 10th in the NL, not so good.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
It is kind of shocking. I guess my 11am article praising the starters seems out of place, though it is more over the last 3 weeks, when they have been better.
I don’t know, 2.5 WAR seems kind of low for me. Only the Phillies starters are averaging more innings per start. There’s value in that, though performance obviously matters too.
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
When your plan in the off season was sign all the pitching, who needs offense it kinda is.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Blame Lilly
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Ya
If you’re using Fangraphs WAR (which is FIP based) Kuroda, Lilly and Garland don’t look to good since they all have FIPs in the 4s.
by Michael White on May 11, 2011 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Hopefully Lilly can settle down a bit
in time for Garland falling a very tiny amount back down to earth
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
he did good
yesterday
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on May 11, 2011 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah
but he has gone every other hasn’t he? If he does good again in 5 days I’ll breath a sigh of relief.
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Weird thing about FIP this year
Usually the standard league factor added in after the calculations is 3.2, though it varies slightly year to year.
This year, it appears the league factor is a stunningly low 2.96
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Kemp and Etheir
and some guy named Kershaw
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Kemp and Andre
Clayton is no Cole Hamels
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
And being the 5th most over performing team by 3rd order record.
Jesus the Twins are bad. 12-22 and still over performing by five games.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Is it fair to be encouraged by our overperforming? As in, we caught some breaks? Or will the numbers catch up with us?
Last year we couldn't lose in the division
and then….
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
As we feel like we should be worse than three games under .500 because we’ve been playing like it. If we keep playing like it, things are going downhill way faster.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
The way I see it, there have been quite a few games we should have won. We could be better then 3 games below 500 and better then 3.5 games back.
And there’s quite a few games where we should have lost.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
thank you Gwynn
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
and Aubrey Huff
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Giants only 1/2 game out of first.
Dave Cameron has made some foolish comments before and I don’t know why he bugs me but I’m going to enjoy it immensely if the Giants overtake the Rockies only two weeks after he said the Division race was over.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Rockies have been a super streaky team the last few years
he is a fool of a took
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
He Implied It
Not only have the Rockies survived despite tremendous struggles from key players, but they actually own baseball’s best record, having won 16 of their first 23 contests. In fact, their early season success has given them a 4½-game lead over both the San Francisco Giants and Los Angeles Dodgers. It’s not even May, but the National League West race is shaping up to be fairly boring.
It’s too early to say for certain that any team has a division title wrapped up. Troy Tulowitzki could break his leg tomorrow and the entire division could change in an instant, and that is just one possible option out of a myriad of other unpredictable events that could significantly alter the landscape. However, given the Rockies’ talent level and their newfound cushion, it might take an event of that magnitude to give the Giants a chance to defend their title.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s too early to say for certain that any team has a division title wrapped up.
Hard to kill a guy who goes out of his way to say it is in fact not over.
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
except for the however:
However, given the Rockies’ talent level and their newfound cushion, it might take an event of that magnitude to give the Giants a chance to defend their title.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
the problem is
the fucker wrote this like he was on a teeter totter the whole time
by Hollywood Joe on May 11, 2011 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
so he missed his deadline did he?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
He wants to say it but he wanted to cover his bases in case he gets 6orged again.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Kind of sadly naiive and yet charming, too.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I know two of the guys on the board
What is strange is that these are successful people, not cranks
but this is a cranky idea
by Hollywood Joe on May 11, 2011 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Those are some impressive resumes, but I cannot imagine the chain of events that would have to take place in order for this cranky idea to come to pass.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on May 11, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah that’s shocking.
If this some how did happen what would it mean?
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Given that the MLB by-laws specifically prohibit this kind of ownership
(so I’ve been told and read) this seems like an utter waste of time. Why would these highly successful professionals waste their time like this? (Says the reasonably successful professional commenting on a baseball blog.)
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
laws are laws until they are changed.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
It was crime at the time, but the laws, we changed ’em!
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on May 11, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Dear Ned, don't read this post whatever you do
(I admit there are a few guys there who I think would help LA, but… at.. what… cost?)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I could see Ned paying out the ass for Heath Bell or Valverde.
by silverwidow on May 11, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d say something like “I’d rather see them get a Shawn Camp-type than Bell or Valverde” except with Ned, he’d probably trade Gould and BCG to get somebody decent. And then turn around and trade said reliever for @dodgerscribe.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
No one would trade anyone “decent” for two guys tearing up Low-A.
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
Blake for Santana is pretty close to that description.
by Michael White on May 11, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
at least blake was a position player. I don’t think the Padres trade Heath Bell for a couple Low-A guys.
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
Right. I’m talking about what Ned pays for Shawn Camp or Jason Frasor or Todd Coffey or or or…
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Even then they got Jon Meloan who sure looked like he could immediately help a bullpen.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I’ve made fun of Ned for his penchant for trading for relief pitchers but not once has he traded anyone for a relief pitcher that we give a shit about today though we may have been up in arms about it at the time.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Huh?
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Josh Bell
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Crazy like a fox
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
He would be really valuable in the pen right now
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
We might only be 2 games under .500!
No doubt he’d fit in nicely right now. I’m just not sure it matters as long as our DL is like it is.
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
It was just a silly stupid trade that makes no sense
and at worst he would be a good arm in the bullpen, at best he is at least better then Ely.
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Agreed, overall, and I thought the Sherill trade was pretty good even then
Though Dotel trade still pretty stupid, though. Regardless of people’s mixed feelings about MacDonald…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I hated it at the time
I thought we could have gotten Arthur Rhodes without giving up Bell.
by The Dude Abides on May 11, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I would guess many give a shit about J-Mac
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Meercat would never make that mistake
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of that, I have to say I am confused as to the “no longer posting as meercatjohn” comment. Perhaps this is better suited for offline, but I assumed that meant no more commenting from work for one JPG
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Joking
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree Phil I dont give a shit about any of them, except maybe Santana but he still has to prove he can make me give a shit. I dont give 2 shits about JMac, glad he is gone.
by uschris0304 on May 11, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Santana has been disappointing and he’s still having a better year than any catcher we’ve had since 2008.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I saw him hit a double the other day
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Santana
wasn’t traded for a relief pitcher, so that doesn’t fit Phil’s scenario.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Almost every Ned trade for relievers was terrible
And guys I would have rather had than the crap middle relief we received:
Edwin Jackson
Wilson Boom Boom Betemit
James McDonald
Relievers are a dime a dozen and if you trade any decent young starter or position player for one you are an idiot.
Its working out for the Marlins right now
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Heh!
Phil certainly gives at least a shit today about Betemit, given the amount of mentions he gives him!
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
BOOM BOOM goes BOOM BOOM
I just liked typing BOOM BOOM goes the Betemit
Yes, I brainfarted on my comment.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
You like Boom Boom more than Bret of Flight of the Conchords!
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
More than Chloe from 24 liked Art Garfunkel on FotC?
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
More than Todd Barry liked The Doggie Bounce
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
More than Art Garfunkel loved Theresa Russell in Bad Timing: A Sensual Obsession?
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
To bad it is Frank
because if it wasn’t Frank I think it would be a beautiful thing to fill Dodger Stadium to the gills for the rest of the month.
15 games
+ 25,000 fans * $20 per ticket * 15 games = 7,500,000
Not that we have 15 games left but you all get my point.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
25000 fans per game increase? or 25000 total per game?
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
Increase or the math does not work. Doable based on 28, 000 fans in the past homestand.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Roger.
Yeah, it’s funny how much money one sellout makes. Even at $20/ticket, which I assume it’s more like $45 per ticket multiplied byb 56,000 people, not including food, beverage and merchandise sales, is $1,120,000-$2,520,000 per game. Eight game homestand of sellouts pays for Roy Halladay.
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
so
what are the chances Loney and/or Andre sit tonight?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on May 11, 2011 10:11 AM PDT reply actions
Zero with Thames out.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
they could
play Mitchell, unlikely though I know. I’m not advocating, just curious if the scenario happens.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on May 11, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
It would take a sudden leap of faith in Russ Mitchell. I don’t see it tonight; who knows maybe Friday against Saunders.
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Is it too farfetched
to think that Indiana Mattingly might take that leap of faith?
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking of a different reference
and started laughing. “Can’t swim? Hell, the fall will kill you.”
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Can’t figure out how to tie in Donnie 2X as Sundance.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Always knew that Butch and Sundance were giving it two-times to Etta Place.
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on May 11, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Ethier's 333 vs Maholm!
ok, SSS alert.
But I definitely think Loney should sit. Whether he will… who knows. Gwynn only has had 1 AB vs Maholm and would likely sit. So Sands will be LF again instead of 1B. Gibbons is not an option. So yeah it’d be Loney or Mitchell basically.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
If James is going to be the next Dodger to have a 30 game hitting streak tonight will be the key:)
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
but would you sit Mitchell
for Hemerling?
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on May 11, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Loney has a 7 game hitting streak
are you mad?!
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
I can’t wait for the next ticket deal, with $7 tickets because of this streak :)
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Pavilion here we come
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes :-)
I’m mad that my first baseman still can’t get an XBH to save his life.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
OBP of 386 in his last 15 games!
The power will come. Not much of it, but Loney will be back to hitting over .75 in no time.
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Can’t say I agree. This is not news though.
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Really, you don’t think he will hit .750 the rest of the year?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I honestly think he is slowly but surely working his way of this slump he is in
he won’t be great when he gets out of it, but he will suck a lot less then when he was hitting .560. It still won’t make anyone happy, but it might help us win a game or two.
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
I have a sling of hope that when he gets it going it will blow the socks off of this place.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I do deep down
but I refuse to indulge this hope. I have been hurt too many times.
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Heh. I certainly hope you're right!
Have had my prayer beads out for Jim Loney for awhile now…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
No time left for you
On my way to better things
No time left for you
I found myself some wings
No time left for you
Distant roads are calling me
No time left for you.
No time for a summer friend
No time for the love you send
Seasons change and so did I
You need not wonder why
You need not wonder why
There’s no time left for you
No time left for you.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Odorizzi
Brewers traded this dude for Granick and he’s putting up 14.34 K/9, 2.25 BB/9, 1.97 ERA. Still, though, it’s Hi-A ball.
I know not many saw the after-the-fact comment some dinkus made in a dead thread a day or two ago, but I loved that said dinkus called Guerrier “Grunier.” I figure Grunier should relieve Granick.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
It is quite astonishing the prospects that Ned has traded that have never panned out even a little bit. Santana might stand out like a sore thumb except he’s not exactly lighting up the league yet either. But he will
Guys Ned has traded that were prospects that have burned us is kind of short.
Santana
McDonald
and the jury is still out on both though I still think Santana is legit and we will regret that deal forever.
Cody Ross was a rostererbation move but still a mistake.
E Jackson is hard to peg because of how long it took for him to become worthwhile.
But the other list is long:
Tiffany
Jarod Plummer
Navarro
Ruggiano
Blake Johnson
Julio Pimental
Pedroza
Joel Guzman
Johnny Nunez
Tomas Perez
Travis Denker
Eric Hull
Juan Rivera
Jon Meloan
Bryan Morris
Andy LaRoche
Eduardo Perez
Michael Watt
D Young
Justin Fuller
Victor Garate
Tony Abreu
Brett Wallach
Kyle Smit
Lambo
Josh Bell
Steve Johnson
LaRoche
and I probably voiced my unhappiness with a few of these deals but in retro while the returns were never decent the sum of their worth barely registers.
I’m fairly certain I was more unhappy about trading Tiffany then Edwin Jackson.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Unfortunately Navarro came back
like a foul odor
Do the chair know we gonna look like some punk-ass bitches out there?
At the time he was traded, Santana was easily the most highly-regarded, but I completely agree that the trading of lesser prospects has not bit the Dodgers. I think the issue has been more with the return value. You also didn’t put DeWitt.
I didn’t really grasp Santana’s value at the time, but the only trade that made me angry when it happened in terms of amount given up for return was the Dotel deal.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
I don’t really consider DeWitt a prospect at the time he was traded. Dude had over 500 major league at bats.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
santana
I really feel like he came out of nowhere, so when he was lost to us it didnt hit me as hard because he just kinda exploded out of single a like a force of nature. I will admit to being kinda sad when I read the catcher defense ratings that came out the other day that showed Santana highly rated.. Always thought his defense wouldnt play at C.. Pretty sure thats what lead to us parting with him, too.
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on May 11, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
No one followed Carlos Santana’s career closer then I did at the time of his deal, and no one anywhere considered the kid tearing up the Cal League our top prospect. That tune changed about a month after he was dealt but you will not be able to show me a shred of evidence that on July 26tth, 2008 any prospect hound or web site or scout considered Santana our top prospect. He was one year removed from a dismal showing in the Midwest league, and many felt he was just enjoying the fruits of the Cal League.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
2008 Dodgers Top Prospects
1. Clayton, Kershaw, lhp
2. Andy LaRoche, 3b
3. Chin-Lung Hu, ss
4. Scott Elbert, lhp
5. Blake DeWitt, 3b
6. Chris Withrow, rhp
7. James McDonald, rhp
8. Jonathan Meloan, rhp
9. Delwyn Young, of
10. Pedro Baez, 3b
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Right. I would say that at the time of the trades, LaRoche was considered the better prospect.
by Michael White on May 11, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
The bloom was off of that rose when he was traded.
As I said, Santana wasn’t really on my radar at that time, but there was a big outcry from others. I thought Blake fit a major need and liked the trade at face value.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
whats crazy is Blake became our best player, counting stats wise, after that trade. our young guys were having a bitch of a time scoring and driving in runs.
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on May 11, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
No he did not. FACT
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
There was this Ramirez guy.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
blake was before manny by a couple weeks
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on May 11, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
well those days felt like weeks to me mmmkay
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on May 11, 2011 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I think you got Phillips-ed on this one.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Casey was awesome for those five days, thus vindicating the comment I hear all the time that we would not have have made the postseason without him, which I consider as much crap as the nothing that Santana was our top prospect.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
And he still counted a hell of a lot more stat than him.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
And Ethier went banana after the trade too.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 11, 2011 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
ralph wiggum says
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Going into 2008 I had Carlos Santana number 30 and that was a reach based on what he did in 2006 not 2007.
Yes I wailed when he was dealt because he was my guy but for anyone to be claiming that he was considered our top prospect at the time is simply re-writing history.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I think this is a little unfair. At the time of the trade, if you were to rank our prospects, Santana would’ve been near #1, kinda like Rubby last year. A switch-hitting catcher with a vicious power swing and a good eye is always valuable. The only knocks were: hadn’t done it for long, pedigree?
No, because he was doing this for the 1st time in the Cal League, not AA. That is important, very important. He had no history of this success at any level.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Phil, you may be right, but he was our hottest prospect and was in the process of exploding on the scene. Give credit to the Indians for snatching him up. Not sure why we thought he was expendable: defense, Martin, the lure of Blake. Huge mistake any way I look at it.
Of course it was a huge mistake and the Indians deserve all the credit for asking for him.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Good summary, thanks
Yeah it’s amazing how many of those guys have become or became fodder. Jury is still out on some, too. I wouldn’t mind having ALR back right now but hard to carp about that trade. Some guys I liked are on this list but some of that was just a fondness for them more than any belief they were truly great (like Young or Abreu).
Again as noted sometimes the issue has been the crap he’s gotten back in these trades for players who at least that time were held in some regard, even if history has shown that they weren’t all that. I prefer trades where we actually get someone back of value. He’s done that a few times, of course (Ethier, Manny, Blake, I’d argue Sherrill, at least the first year, maybe a few others). But the rest have been utterly sad sacks of rocks.
Still it is a pretty long list of meh there, isn’t it?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Might be the same for every team, 90% of those names were never really prospects per say. Just bodies being exchanged for MLB crap or for other minor league crap.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Yep probably so
just shows what a, uh, crapshoot prospects are.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Sounds like the makings of an article there.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I think DT
just did something like that recently.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on May 11, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Different angle
Jon’s was on how rarely Colletti traded an established young vet for a prospect. Phil’s comment is focused on how have the prospects Ned dealt away turned out.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Great list, thanks
Santana is our new nightmare, not yet Pedroesque but could be. The intelligencia of the Indians has seen fit to bat him 4th. To me, that’s enough right there (though the eye test almost blinds me).
As for the other guys, it’s too early to write them off completely. I love depth in a system, and I understand there has to be some weeding out, but every time you do that, you increase the odds you will get bit.
To me the real problem is that when you are frequently pairing prospects and peddling them for the like of Octavio Dotel and Scott Podsednik, you are stripping yourself of prospects that might allow you to put together the package that can net you a Cliff Lee type deal.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Sad news
Robert Tractor Traylor was found dead this morning, at age 34, per John Buccigross of ESPN.
Traylor was traded by Dallas on draft day in 1998 for Pat Garrity and Dirk Nowitzki. Yikes.
I remember nothing of his NBA career but all of his March Madness run.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
He had such a great and fitting nickname. Big, big dude.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Jon Heyman reminds people that LHP Randy Flores has an out clause on his minor league deal with SD on May 15. I only note because the Dodgers were one of the teams mentioned in Heyman’s tweet as a potential interested party.
Does anyone think Elbert will be successful this time?
This will hurt losing Hawk, he’s been solid
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Elbert
will walk a ton of guys but also gets some Ks in big situations.
by silverwidow on May 11, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
He’s had some bad luck in MLB. Maybe some of that comes around this time for him.
by Michael White on May 11, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I sure hope he is. But everytime I think he will be, it doesnt work out. So we’ll see…. I just wish I could know what players we could of had for him back when he was a top prospect. Or maybe I dont want to know.
by uschris0304 on May 11, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think he will be horrible bad
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
this is the expectation?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Just hedging my bets!
I think he will have mostly good outings, but his bad outings will be really bad. He will be… Jansen
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Annies say yes!
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on May 11, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of failed Dodgers prospects
Apparently BBRef lists Joe Thurston as Joseph. Did he ever go by Joseph in MLB?
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Good question. That might be one of those Luke/Lucas May situations.
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
You guys ask the goofiest questions
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Goldstein
Allen Webster, RHP, Dodgers (High-A Rancho Cucamonga): 7 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 2 BB, 7 K
I recently mentioned my regret about not putting Robbie Erlin in this year’s Top 101 prospects, and Webster is another one of those guys. With a low-to-mid 90s fastball, plus changeup and solid breaking ball, he’s not only pitching well, but doing it in the Southern Division of the California League. In his last four starts, the 21-year-old has allowed two runs over 25 innings, and the scouting reports are as impressive as the stats.
I think Goldstein totally failed when he did our system.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe that’s because Webster called Goldstein “a pusillanimous, half-begotten, self-dubbed prospect maven.”
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on May 11, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's part of the Goldstein Hindsight Scale
He has the explanation for that somewhere, I’m sure.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Yes!
from Ken Gurnick:
The Dodgers are not confirming or denying a True Blue LA report that Scott Elbert will be recalled and Blake Hawksworth disabled.
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 10:56 AM PDT reply actions 12 recs
Put it on the board
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Heh!
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Rec'iest Rec I ever Rec'd
magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur
by Humma Kavula on May 11, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah what does Gurnick do all year?? Does he have other jobs besides covering the Dodgers? because IMO he could do a way better job of it…
by uschris0304 on May 11, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s his job. What do you think he could do better?
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I can understand if one doesn’t agree with his analysis, but in terms of delivering content and news, Gurnick is awesome.
by Eric Stephen on May 11, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
He does in all fashion
though I do agree he could probably utilize twitter more. But he’s pretty tireless otherwise. And he did finally add a picture!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Disagree. He is pretty tireless.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, i dont know if he works for Dodgers, or MLB or what. So maybe im wrong. But seems to me he is closest to the Dodgers and management as far as media goes. How do you guys get these moves before he does? lineups before he does? It seems rare when I get any inside Dodger news from him 1st. He does nothing with his blog as well. I just think he should be getting more inside info then he does, should know things quicker then he does. Seems like Dylan H, Tony Jackson, and this site are far more active then he is when it comes to Dodger info. However maybe alot of his stuff is on twitter and I dont do twitter. This is how I have felt about him for years now, but maybe I got it wrong.
by uschris0304 on May 11, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
He works for mlb.com, not the Dodgers.
Dylan Hernandez and Tony Jackson don’t even have blogs, so dinging Gurnick on his blog content is not a reasonable comparison.
I don’t find discernable differences among the beat writers on breaking news about roster moves, etc. Most of that comes when the club announces it.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Nor Nor Nor
fucking Gurnick, learn to write
Do the chair know we gonna look like some punk-ass bitches out there?
I internally cringe when I see comments like this
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on May 11, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I predict that "nor" is a word
that will rapidly fall out of use in the English language. I understand how to use it, but using “or” instead is rarely if ever confusing, and in a 140-character world, people will be dropping that “n” faster than Aubrey Huff drops fly balls.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on May 11, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
when I was a child
My father over heard me telling my cousin that if I was ever lost in the woods and starving I would eat my little toe for sustenance….
He smacked the side of my head, hard. Shocking me and making fear well in my heart and tears well in my eyes.
With mocking tone and disgusted face he asked me just how much meat I expected to get off my little toe…
I have never forgotten that moment, surely the violence and cruelty of his loving gesture will disgust the parents of today, but what I learned in that moment has stayed with me to this day.
and I still have 10 toes
by Hollywood Joe on May 11, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Pads
Only top of the third inning and 8 of 9 Padres already have hits including two from the pitcher Stauffer.
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