Elbows Sideline Ethier, Broxton
by Eric Stephen on May 4, 2011 10:34 AM PDT
in Dodgers Game Previews
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As Andre Ethier tries to extend his hitting streak to 30 games today, against Carlos Zambrano of the Cubs, I started thinking about hitting streaks. UPDATE: Ethier has been scratched, with a sore left elbow, per Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times. Elbow problems abound!
Ethier has exactly one hit in each of his last three games -- two infield singles, and a looper just over the outstretched glove of second baseman Darwin Barney last night -- and I wondered, what is the longest LA Dodger streak of getting exactly one hit in each game?
Willy Aybar leads the pack:
| Longest LA Dodger Streak With Exactly One Hit | ||
| Player | Year | Games |
| Willy Aybar | 2006 | 13 |
| Cesar Izturis | 2003 | 11 |
| Rafael Furcal | 2009 | 10 |
| Cesar Izturis | 2004 | 10 |
| Adrian Beltre | 2001 | 10 |
| Duke Snider | 1961 | 10 |
Ethier is 8-for-18 with a double and two walks against Zambrano in his career. Ted Lilly starts for the Dodgers. Both Lilly and Zambrano pitched in the series in Wrigley Field a week and a half ago, in separate games, and both pitched badly. Each pitcher allowed more runs than innings.
Broxton Shutdown
In the least surprising development of the day, Jonathan Broxton has been shut down with elbow pain, per Ken Gurnick of MLB.com.
Lineups
Jay Gibbons and Russ Mitchell become the 19th and 20th Dodgers position players to start a game this season, in their 32nd game of the season.
| Cubs | Dodgers | |||
| SS | Castro | LF | Gwynn |
|
| 2B | Barney | 2B | Miles | |
| CF | Byrd | RF | Gibbons | |
| 3B | Ramirez | CF | Kemp | |
| RF | Baker |
SS | Uribe | |
| C | Soto | 1B | Loney | |
| LF | Soriano | C | Navarro | |
| 1B | Peña | 3B | Mitchell | |
| P | Zambrano |
P | Lilly |
|
*****
Game Time: 12:10 p.m.
TV: Prime Ticket
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Comments
It's a long line.
I’ll just do self-check out.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
it sucks trying to use coupons in the self-checkout line
by Josie Becker on May 4, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
It does indeed.
Reminds me of this hilarious Patton Oswalt bit.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
padilla is presumably the new closer?
by stevesaxaphone on May 4, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
And he and his agent are double-checking the “games finished” incentives in his contract.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
So we now we wait to find out if it is day to day or DL time. MRI probably going to happen today or tomorrow.
Kenley
Link
Lindblom
Elbert
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Link is my guess
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Not on the 40-man anymore
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
elbert it is!
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
It can be, sure. I just don’t necessarily think it will be.
by Eric Stephen on May 4, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
They can always kick Gimenez to the 60-day to make room for Lindblom, or even Link, but I wonder if that will happen.
by Eric Stephen on May 4, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah
least surprising.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on May 4, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s that inverted W motion. His elbow goes way over his shoulder.
by Tim Crews' Dastardly Mustache on May 4, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
your elbow HAS to go over your shoulder or you hurt your elbow majorly. It’s far more likely from all the torque on such a pudgy frame.
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
I knew what he meant, but that motion is totally normal as long as your elbow then gets above your shoulder before release, which IIRC Broxton does.
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
I’m actually a lot upset that I never noticed that. I always saw that he did the inverted elbow thing, but he threw so hard I assumed he got to where he needed to be. I’ve looked at a lot of pictures now of him and they’re all the same.
Thanks for this. I’m going to keep a better eye on this for other pitchers and my students.
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
Give us a narrative please. Is there something he is doing wrong or right? Details, we want details.
Ok so
if your elbows are above your shoulder when you land, it’s extremely difficult to get your elbow back above your shoulder on release, and you end up pushing the ball and putting all that torque on your elbow. It is, however, possible.
If you get your elbow above your shoulder on release like you’re supposed to, then the whip of your arm extends out passed your elbow to your forearms, wrist and eventually fingers. Otherwise, you just whip your arm until your elbow and then push the ball with almost entirely your elbow as the driving force.
Does that make sense?
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
Probably makes sense, but I need a checklist version. I work in checklists.
Where should your elbow(s) be when you land?
Where should your elbow(s) be when you release?
Easier way to say it might be: that it relates to timing. It is believed you want your forearm at a vertical position when your foot lands and you prepare to release. Inverted W causes a lag (especially if your stride isn’t long enough) that then puts extra stress on your shoulder and elbow.
correct. It jacks up the timing and changes where the end strains are. Pitching is already stressful and unnatural on your arm and body, taking the pressures from the big muscles and puttinng it on small muscles and tendons/ligaments is no go.
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
Bottom line, just make sure you don't end up like this
by Eric Stephen on May 4, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Check it
Strasburg has the same issues. Inverted W, elbow below shoulder at release
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
And a lot of people saw his issues coming
Used to hear a lot from people who wanted him straight to the majors, the big reason was that his arm was gonna explode at some point, might as well maximize the ML innings.
when your front foot lands, your upper arm should be parallel to the ground, with your elbow even or (very) slightly below your shoulders, lower arms making a 90° angle also parallel to the ground.
when you release, your elbow should be above your shoulder, your hand above your elbow, arm extending towards home plate
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
From here he looks okay
It’s totally possible that he started dropping his elbow after the overwork issues mid-2010.
This is a picture of him at the 2010 All Star Game a month after the Yankees series. Maybe he’s just not consistent.
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
But there are people who think the inverted W theory is BS, right? I don’t know enough to comment either way.
I think a big thing is that we really don’t know so a lot of this stuff is still developing and can change suddenly. Hell “Inverted W”ark Prior was praised for his mechanics when he came up.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on May 4, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I think its BS
becaues it should just be called the M theory
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Yea I never picked up on it either. Harder to notice with him in one inning stints plus he hunkers down a lot more before he spreads out.
Looks a lot like Wainwright, Reyes, Bonderman, et al. The big problem too with these mechanics is that he doesn’t stride far enough, and its likely this has gotten worse as he has gotten more out of shape.
What bothers me is, if all of this stuff is available and noticeable to us, what have the Dodgers noticed and what are they doing about it?
No offense to G., but an MLB team should have people far more skilled and knowledgeable and trained than yahoos like us on a blog to diagnose and treat these kinds of problems. If the Dodgers can’t see a problem like this, then they are guilty of baseball negligence. If they see these problems and aren’t willing to do what it takes to fix them, then they are guilty of baseball malpractice. If they see these problems, are actively trying to fix them and not getting results, then they are guilty of baseball suckiness and need to be fired, and new coaches/medical staff need to be brought in.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Probably because not everyone with these mechanics gets injured. There is just a correlation. They’re not going to mess with a guy’s mechanics when you’re a lights out pitcher (or at least was). Same goes for guys like Wainwright, Strasburg, etc…
Plus this is newer info. I’m guessing now that it is coming to light, the steps to take are just to get your younger pitchers away from this.
Also, even if a coach, trainer, whoever, sees it, the player still has to want to change. I’d guess many/most won’t want to change anything when they can throw 95+ and got to and have stayed in the majors this way.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
This is more what I assume
“Jon, if you keep doing that your elbow is going to blow up”
“Fuck you, I’m the millionaire throwing 100mph”
/speculation
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
I believe he hastned the fall
but the fall was coming eventually one way or another
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Dodgers against Zambrano
PA H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPSAaron Miles 37 10 1 1 0 0 2 2 .294 .351 .382 .734
Juan Uribe 32 6 1 0 1 5 2 8 .214 .290 .357 .647
Andre Ethier 20 8 1 0 0 1 2 3 .444 .500 .500 1.000
James Loney 18 5 0 0 0 2 1 0 .313 .389 .313 .701
Matt Kemp 14 5 1 0 1 4 1 6 .417 .500 .750 1.250
Tony Gwynn 13 5 1 0 0 1 1 1 .417 .462 .500 .962
Jamey Carroll 9 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 .125 .125 .250 .375
Dioner Navarro 6 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 .200 .333 .200 .533
Rod Barajas 5 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
Chad Billingsley 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .000 .000 .000 .000
Hiroki Kuroda 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .000 .000 .000 .000
Vicente Padilla 2 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 .000 .500 .000 .500
Jay Gibbons 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 1.000 1.000 1.000 2.000
Total 162 42 6 1 2 15 11 25 .292 .356 .389 .745
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 5/4/2011.
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
we got this
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
I guess I could have removed the pitchers:)
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
So Gwynn instead of Gibbons would've been the only other idea there
Given it’s a day game and thus players rested, seems the lineup is about as sensible as it could be. If still sucky. But… if Zambrano can melt down on cue, we got this.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
The C Team
Starring Jay Gibbons, Russ Mitchell and Dioner Navarro. Special guest appearance by Aaron Miles.
Andre Ethier has a sore elbow too. Clearly, we need to get Casey Blake the fuck out of that clubhouse.
Quarantine!!!
what a trooper, playing through the pain
by Josie Becker on May 4, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
this is going to be the
“everything goes wrong” season isn’t it
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
pretty sure that happened last year
because the only thing worse than the dodgers sucking is the giants winning on top of it.
by stevesaxaphone on May 4, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Kinda feels like it already is. Except last season was, too.
:-(
Is there an animal sacrifice we can perform, a la whatever the Giants did last year, to get out of this mojo?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
last year we just sucked
this year we suck AND are injured
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
True, but there was also Manny-gate early in season
and McCourt Divorce, etc. lots of bad stuff started last year. This year they would suck less without injuries.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Without injuries, that Furcal, Sands, Dre, Kemp, Uribe, Loney, Blake, Barajas lineup with the Broxton, Kuo, Padilla back bullpen looks sexy.
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
Yeah honestly the lineup would be totally fine if everyone's healthy
We could of course argue they didn’t have good enough contingencies in place for 2 players who are injury prone or older (Raffy or Blake) but if healthy the lineup would not be an issue. They’d score runs. Depending on Brox and Kuo and Padilla also might have been too much, too…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
From the Dodgers
Mattingly: Broxton came in today and complained about some right elbow pain. Didn’t give a length of time that it was bothering him
Classic “I’m fine, I’m fine, I’m fine, it hurts.” player move
Classic “I better be fine, it’s my contract year, shit I’m not fine, I hope they offer arbitration still” move?
No Rafael Furcals were hurt in the making of this video.
Strong post-surgery September will boost his value :)
by Eric Stephen on May 4, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Nooner
Early game today, last call for contest-hol. We reset our points, so it’s a good time to jump in. Today’s five questions along with the game score are…
A. Dodgers runs minus Cubs runs: 0.5
B. T.Lilly strikeouts minus C.Zambrano strikeouts: 0.5
C. Andre Ethier hitting streak: 29.5
D. Dodgers extra base hits: 2.5
E. Dodgers bullpen total pitches: 44.5
Bonus Question
F. Number of sore Dodgers players with sore elbows: 2.5
thanks for the heads up
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
her bit on the human giant mtv special was amazing
she basically pretended to play the accordian after suffering a severe headwound. crying and bleeding as she played and sang. I died.
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on May 4, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Jealous! She must be fun to talk to and hard not to giggle.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
oh I was cracking up the whole time, she has the best comedic timing among female comics right now.
by Josie Becker on May 4, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
By far the funniest Daily Show correspondent right now.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on May 4, 2011 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
(Olivia Munn is by far the least funny)
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on May 4, 2011 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Which will convince D2X to start several of these guys more than he should, at which point they’ll revert to their typical level of suck and we’ll average like 2 R/G over the next week or so.
Well, if you and Kinbote are both correct
That’s a total of 4 runs for the next 6 games combined. I’m no stat geek, but that’s not good.
by Greg Stephen on May 4, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Nabokov talk
I put in a 2 week notice which means I will be sipping tea and reading at my desk. I have the Nabokov short stories in my backpack. Any favorites?
Lance
is his greatest (imo), and it’s also his last. Just an amazing work.
(I love them all, of course—they are like Shakespeare’s sonnets. Each has detail, style to spare.)
Signs and Symbols is pretty incredible, too, iirc
and The Vane Sisters
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Heard this
Ned read it and was so moved, he refused to ever let it go.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Don’t you dare! I don’t like the name, and that’s why it was never in consideration for either of my sons’ names (my firstborn’s middle name is Vladimir), but my second son’s name can be made from letters contained in Lance (not all of them). I like the associations with Lancelot and the fact it’s a weapon (like a bodkin), but, yeah, it’s also the name of two crummy relievers we’ve had. :)
The one where he choked and the Sharks didn’t win the series. It was so awesome, I read it practically every year in the aughts.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
If Ethier's streak ends we can blame Gary Radnich on KNBR
who, to his credit, said it was worth talking about that streak and he was even rooting for him to keep it going. He and Bruno chatted about it briefly. But of course now it will end… thanks Gary!
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I blame Gary Radnich
Bleh.
WHO HAS CURSED OUR TEAM!?!
I blame McCourt.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Sands in right?
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Yeah, but who's hitting 3rd in that lineup?
by Greg Stephen on May 4, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Gibbons in RF, batting 3rd.
Gwynn leading off in LF
Refresh
by Eric Stephen on May 4, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
does the streak continue when he takes a day off?
by Josie Becker on May 4, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess I picked the right day to not take free tickets. Lily pitching and no Andre? Do not want.
by Josie Becker on May 4, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd never pass on free tickets if I were able to go
regardless of what pathetic lineup they trot out there.
by Greg Stephen on May 4, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Gwynn in LF
Gibbons in RF. Apparently, per Dodgers Live.
Ethier scratched w/left elbow inflammation, Gwynn will lead off in LF, Gibbons shifts to RF and will bat 3rd
Winning > Streak
joe_block: Mattingly said pre-game if (injured) Ethier didn’t start he’d still pinch-hit him if he thought Ethier could help win game
last year, Andre-meter, Andre breaks his pinky. Now he’s got Elbow inflamation, mere moments after this article was posted : )
by Josie Becker on May 4, 2011 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
the pinky was his own fault
he shoudln’t had said he didn’t knew who ely was.
The Inverted W
So I’m sitting here waiting for the last student in the last final of Hellmester 2011, reading through the page, and I have to ask…isn’t an “inverted W” also known as an M?
Let the Bison roam.
by Little Blue Bicycle on May 4, 2011 11:38 AM PDT reply actions
I made that joke 30 minutes ago!
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
OK, skimming through the page….
Let the Bison roam.
by Little Blue Bicycle on May 4, 2011 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
btw, an inverted w is not an m. one has straight lines the other angles. If your kid made an m that looked like an upside down w they’d go to special school
by Josie Becker on May 4, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Its an uppercase not lowercase W
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
m/w does not equal M/W, as both of the latter are pointy.
Let the Bison roam.
by Little Blue Bicycle on May 4, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
but still, the M isn’t angled like the W
by Josie Becker on May 4, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
The M is skinnier, which I will grant does not fit Broxton.
Let the Bison roam.
by Little Blue Bicycle on May 4, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
He's the bold 24 font
in a 10 font world
by Greg Stephen on May 4, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
With an injured elbow, I think he’s currently the square root symbol.
Let the Bison roam.
by Little Blue Bicycle on May 4, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Straight lines. Angles. You’re absolutely killing the Geometry teacher in me.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
at least I didn’t call it a parallelogram
by Josie Becker on May 4, 2011 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, the outline of a capital M is a parallelogram, insofar as a rectangle is a parallelogram. A W would be an isosceles trapezoid.
The geometrically-correct way of stating your point is that the sides of a capital M are parallel (and vertical), whereas the sides of a W are not parallel (and diagonal oblique).
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
I do the Liberal Arts.
Let the Bison roam.
by Little Blue Bicycle on May 4, 2011 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I've been looking for a big W
Do the chair know we gonna look like some punk-ass bitches out there?
by mleadman on May 4, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Assuming he’s also not nursing a sore elbow.
by Eric Stephen on May 4, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
how dare you put O’Reilly in a Vin thread
by Josie Becker on May 4, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Did Vin
say anything last night about the current events? He’s always been such a supporter of the military.
He was describing the scene the previous night at Citizens Bank Park in Philadelphia as the Mets were playing the Phillies. Word of bin Laden’s death spread through the stands and the crowd began chanting “USA!! USA!!”
“And you know where they were in the game at that point? The ninth inning,” Scully said. “The score tied 1 to 1. Nine one one. Nine eleven. How about that?”
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/sports/Scully-tells-bin-Laden-Anecdote-121171844.html
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
the Mets wore the American flag caps Monday night
by Josie Becker on May 4, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Vinny loves his numerology :)
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on May 4, 2011 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
It's true
2 balls, 2 strikes, 2 on, 2 out, bottom of the 2nd, score tied at 2 would has to be his favorite game situation.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on May 4, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
that’s right, last night was Tuesday. But I watched Monday night’s game too. I must have just not been paying attention. Pregame or 6th inning?
by Josie Becker on May 4, 2011 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Ethier sitting today
Always forget the rule, but if Ethier doesn’t play at all today, but has a hit on Friday, does the streak go to 30 consecutive games? Know Davis didn’t miss a game nor do I think Rose did.
Streak only counts games actually played by the player.
by Eric Stephen on May 4, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Donnie will pinch hit with Blake first before he uses Dre.
Let the Bison roam.
by Little Blue Bicycle on May 4, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Vin Scully Doesn’t Understand Your Newfangled Haircut, Troy Tulowitzki
http://deadspin.com/#!5616896/vin-scully-doesnt-understand-your-newfangled-haircut-troy-tulowitzki
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Go Dodgers, bring home the inverted M
I have to go grade these things.
Let the Bison roam.
by Little Blue Bicycle on May 4, 2011 11:55 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
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