Dioner Navarro is here to stay
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:15 PM PDT
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Dioner Navarro to the chagrin of many will continue to be a Dodger as AJ Ellis was returned to AAA and told to hit a home run before coming back. Rod Barajas is back. Now the team only needs Casey Blake back in the fold as they run out of excuses for being the team they are.
dylanohernandez
#Dodgers send down A.J. Ellis to make room on roster for Rod Barajas.
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{Shrugs}
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
by underdog on Jul 14, 2011 11:19 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
that cat has murder in its eyes
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Catches mice a damned sight better
than Dio catches balls.
by Riffraffselbow on Jul 15, 2011 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions
He's just a sneering hipster cat
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
he was into murder before it was cool
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
That looks like a cat bully if I’ve ever seen one.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Could be misunderstood. Just really constipated.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Hope it is not a big deal
Keeping Navarro up and sending Ellis down to AAA. Keeps the platoon in effect and Ellis can try to win a share of the catching job next spring. He will be up later when one of the catchers get hurt or September call ups.
Donny gets to keep his pinch hitter, win win for everyone
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions
that's the part that I find upsetting in all of this
I just never want to see Navarro pinch hit again, ever. But you know it will happen. Because he’s CLUTCH.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I’d rather see Dioner up then Mr. Carroll with the game on the line and players on base.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
you'd rather see the guy with a .234 OBP (.305 lifetime)
over the guy with a .368 OBP (.357 lifetime)? Okay…
Because of his clutchiness? (Similar to Stephen Colbert’s Truthiness.)
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
You may sneer, yet the next time you see Carroll come up with someone in scoring position you will know in your heart you would like to see anyone other then him with a bat in their hand.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah
but Navarro is a bad enough player to be a Dodger assistant GM
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
Check the numbers
Even if you believe that hitters hit differently in “clutch” situations (I don’t), Carroll scores a greater percentage of the runners that are on when he comes to bat over his career than Navarro.
Carroll scores 12% of runners on base when he’s at bat.
Navarro scores 11% of runners on base when he’s at bat.
by JPFinsCanes on Jul 14, 2011 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm more interested in their OPS+ with RISP
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
I’d have expected Carroll to be much better if someone was going to use objective reasoning, but a 1% diff is hardly worth bothering to post about isn’t it? What is that, a one run difference over a life time?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I posted that because I inferred that you were basing your opinion on the anomalously low number of runners Carroll’s driven in this year. I felt that his career number in this situation, however untrustworthy it is, was worth mentioning.
by JPFinsCanes on Jul 14, 2011 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I"m just shocked that they are even that close given how much better a hitter Carroll has been compared to Navarro. My whole thing is subjective “crap” when Carroll is up with this year when we need a big hit which I certainly don’t expect to pass any smell test.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
clutchiness can be overblown
but if a guy hits worse in a significant sample size with RISP then he does with them not in RISP, I feel like maybe there is something to it.
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Problem with Carroll is that he can’t hit a sacrifice fly so he’s unable to bring in that runner from 3rd base without the benefit of a hit.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Unless Dee Gordon or TGJ is on 3rd base.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
even then unless its Mathis at the plate
they still might get hosed. Not to take anything away from the wonderful throw by petey of course. Have I mentioned Bourjos is awesome?
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
that is a bummer
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
The numbers I linked to above
Show that Carroll has a higher success rate than Navarro when it comes to sacrifice hits as well.
by JPFinsCanes on Jul 14, 2011 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd have to dig it up,
But I’m pretty sure there’s a very low level of consistency in someone’s numbers with RISP from one year to the next.
by JPFinsCanes on Jul 14, 2011 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions
So I sort-of dug it up
BPro put together a clutch formula based on batter performance in high-leverage situations, compiled 30+ years of hitting data and ran a regression and found that “clutch” is 90% random.
by JPFinsCanes on Jul 15, 2011 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Right I"m not saying its not random most of the time
but I can’t believe there aren’t players who thrive/fold in high pressure situations.
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
What that says, though,
Is what differentiates an individual player’s performance in the clutch from another’s is almost entirely based on chance – it’s not a repeatable skill. Good hitters hit, and they’re the ones you want up. Sure there will be a handful of outliers at one end or the other, but the numbers very strongly suggest that this is a result of chance and not skill.
The article focused on David Ortiz, who had a reputation for clutch hitting (this was done around 2006, with his playoff heroics fresh in the mind, one presumes). Ortiz had two years where he had a very high clutch factor (again, based on their leverage formula), 2000 and 2006. Every other year, he was slightly above or slightly below average in clutch hitting. It’s a lot easier for me to swallow that this was based on luck rather than David Ortiz finding and losing a skill twice in the eight-year timeframe they were working with. Ortiz’ case represents the vast majority of players – there’s no consistency in clutch performance.
by JPFinsCanes on Jul 15, 2011 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I should add
That this doesn’t exactly answer your initial question about OPS+ w/ RISP. This was WPA in high leverage situations, which is a narrower set of circumstances. I’d guess that on the whole, players’ BA/OPS w/ RISP over the course of their careers would tend to approach their non-RISP numbers, but that’s just a guess.
by JPFinsCanes on Jul 15, 2011 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions
"tell me I'm a good man"
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
what a geek:)
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions
we have to wait until Sunday
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Can't wait! Seeing pt 2 this weekend.
Night all.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
I
Will probably see it again in a nice theater in a couple of weeks for now I am in Hollywood, the SFV version.
by bhsportsguy on Jul 14, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
We call that North Hollywood – are watching the 3d version
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions
It was amazing! :)
They got in so much more of the book than I thought. Very happy about
"If we hit that bull's eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate"
I laughed, I cried, I became a better person
by Josie Becker on Jul 15, 2011 2:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow
Andre Ethier? Hmmm. In line to score an eight-figure salary next year — and maybe nine figures as a free agent after next season if his power numbers return — Ethier says he wouldn’t be surprised if he finishes this season elsewhere. It makes a little sense. He could bring a king’s ransom of players in return from a team that needs a left-handed impact hitter for a stretch run.
wouldn't be surprised
and expecting it to happen are two different things
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
I wouldn't hold my breath
Waiting for a king’s ransom in exchange for Andre.
by JPFinsCanes on Jul 14, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d be happy with a young cost controlled 1st baseman, left fielder, or right fielder who is just as good:) Is that a Kings Ransom?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
remember when
we used to call him 3.5? I’ll say any of those or 3b hitter or both would be a decent ransom
Guess this answers Champs question about why some of us think he will be elsewhere long before he’s a free agent. He keeps talking about it.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions
To a player who expects a big payday, who watches his owner in bankruptcy court, it would make sense for him to feel his current team will not be able to afford him, so expecting a trade does not seem like whining.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions
He sure does talk about it a lot compared to the other guys… that said, yeah, it is a schitty situation for him
he gets asked
and he decides no comments are boring
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
sure
at the same time the Dodgers shouldn’t feel obligated to lock up a glorified platoon player for anything near what Ethier wants. Hell, I’d rather go cheap/bad at 2B and sign Prince for 1B. If Dre brings a serviceable catcher and OF, do it.
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
if we are only getting "servicable" players
whats the point of trading him now and not next year
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Salary dump for next year.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Jul 14, 2011 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
he can be our white flag for the 2012 season?
I guess if we can use him to plug 2 holes and then use the money we saved to sign a good player, maybe just maybe we can make up the value we would lose by trading him. Maybe. Or you are just saying McCourt is poor and it was a joke.
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Just spitballing. If you want to compete next year you flip Ethier for some low cost not completely terrible guys like (and I’m just throwing out names don’t focus too much on them) Darwin Barney and Jeff Samardja. You’ve filled two of the many many holes you have and have 33 million instead of the 20 million. This lets you go get Prince and a couple other guys.
@andrewngrant
by regfairfield on Jul 14, 2011 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Throw in Soto and I'll think about it
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
hedging my bets with that language
if prospects become league average players I’ll be happy
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
Whoever trades for him now gets 1 1/2 years of service so you should net more back in the deal. It really comes down to what you can get, you don’t just trade him to trade him, you only do it if you think you are helping the team for the future.
Some think you can get a lot for Andre, others don’t. I’m not sure how GM’s view him, they must know he blows against LHP but he must still have plenty of value.
Would you trade him for Brandon Belt?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't hand Etheir to the Giants for next year
no
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
I'm more intrigued
by the part on Kuroda:
After suffering his 10th loss last week, Kuroda had the chance to say he would invoke his no-trade clause, but didn’t and left the possibility open.
“As long as there’s a chance to play in the playoffs, I don’t want to think about it,” he said of a possible trade. That is the correct thing for him to say, but it does allow us to speculate about the scenario of "as long as there’s not chance to make the playoffs here, I’d think about a trade to a contender. How would Hiroki look in pinstripes?
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Jul 15, 2011 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions
not many starters out there
makes the price go up as long as Hiro keeps dealing
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
meh is quickly becoming my least favorite word here
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Feh
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
but the 2011 dodgers
Are so….Meh
by Lex in Brooklyn on Jul 14, 2011 11:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I’ve been around since 9 p.m., no problems.
by silverwidow on Jul 14, 2011 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
So
The Giants get two men on, then an error on the sacrifice but two unproductive outs. But of course, a four pitch walk to Fontenot and then the floodgates open.
Heath Bell nailed the Dodger coffin.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 14, 2011 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions
coffin was shut
a long time ago, maybe even by Lilly
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
on one hand
It would be easy to laugh at us even talking about AJ Ellis vs Rodbah or Dinosaur, especially in a season like this, but I really do think Ellis makes a bigger difference than the casual fan would ever know.
by Lex in Brooklyn on Jul 14, 2011 11:44 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
mleh
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
American League left fielders are hitting .246/.306/.374 this season
wat
You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.
Dodger left fielders are hitting
.231 / .305 / .313 / .618 this season.
@davidyoungtbla - The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Jul 15, 2011 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions
How can the Blue Jays
have an 80s night without this guy?
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
Julio Nievas
in case you missed it on the optimistic fanpost, try this place — L’Entrecôte, they do one thing and do it well, steak frites! Go find JoJo while you’re at it.
Overqualified in an underqualified world since 2008.
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