Kuroda Walks Out A Winner, Matt Kemp An MVP
by David Young on Sep 22, 2011 11:20 PM PDT
in Dodgers Game Recaps
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Hiroki Kuroda threw seven-plus innings in an economical 92 pitches and scattered five hits, notching his 13th win in what may be the last start of his career in Dodger Stadium, as the Los Angeles Dodgers defeated the San Francisco Giants 8-2. Kuroda's only blemishes were two solo home runs, to Carlos Beltran in the first inning and Pablo "Let THEM Eat Cake" Sandoval in the seventh.
Earlier today Matt Kemp tweeted to his followers:
Last home game of the year! Hope 2 c everybody out at the stadium 2nite. Let's end the season wit a bang!
Well, Kemp banged out three doubles in his first four at-bats and made a nice diving catch in center field as he continued his stretch run in his MVP candidacy. Then, like a well-crafted pyrotechnics show, he saved the biggest bang for last, capping off his evening by launching a towering, two-run, moon-shot home run to dead center field in the eight inning off mop-up man Barry Zito. Four-for-five, 1 HR (36 for the year), 3 doubles (31), 3 runs (109), 2 RBIs (118), raising his batting average to .326. That will get it done.
Matt Kemp is about to rocket this ball into orbit. (Photo by David Young)
After the game, Kemp said that it was a "memorable night" made "even more special with his mom sitting in the front row" while he feasted at the dish.
Kuroda departed after allowing a leadoff single in the eighth inning. Kenley Jansen entered and after walking pinch-hitter Pat Burrell, ended the inning with a strikeout, a harmless fly to center and a popout to end the threat. Scott Elbert pitched a scoreless ninth to seal the series win for the Dodgers over the Giants.
Juan Rivera gave the Dodgers a lead they would never relinquish when he blasted a two-run homer into the left-field pavilion following Kemp's two-out, first-inning double. Los Angeles also enjoyed a two-run inning in the fifth when three straight walks off two Giants' relievers forced in Kemp who had, what else, doubled to lead off the inning, and Jamey Carroll knocked in the other run with a fielder's choice grounder.
The Dodgers conclude their season with a six-game road trip to San Diego and Arizona.
Notes
- Kemps three doubles in one game tied a Dodgers record held by many, last matched by James Loney on June 15 last year.
- Jerry Sands now has a 10-game hitting streak, thanks to a single in the third inning.
- Dee Gordon walked twice for the first time in his career, and has walked four times in his last four games.
WP - Hiroki Kuroda (13-16): 7+ IP, 5 hits, 2 runs, 0 walks, 4 strikeouts
LP - Madison Bumgarner (12-13): 4 IP, 9 hits, 4 runs, 0 walks, 1 strikeout
Sv - None
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The Moon wasn't created by planetary collisions.
It was created from baseball used by Matt Kemp in batting practice.
cal. lakers. dodgers. packers. chelsea.
vols. rangers. galaxy.
Gordon’s line looks pretty good now. .299/.324/.355/.679
by dodgerpreacher on Sep 22, 2011 11:24 PM PDT reply actions
dude
If Dee can manage to walk at the same rate he K’s, he’s gonna have an 80 steal season. Hell, I bet you right now, Matty, Lopes, and Don are drilling into him: “DON’T SWING AT THE BAD ONES.”
I'm goofy
Matthew Ryan Kemp has 15 hits in his last 25 at-bats.
In six games, Kemp has raised his batting average from .31397 to .32639
Eric, just imagine the view I had of Kemp’s HR tonight. Majestic. I literally thought it was too high to get out. And it got out anyway. Between the bleachers.
In case it isn’t obvious, that pic above is indeed that swing.
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by David Young on Sep 22, 2011 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
There are few things better than that view, especially coupled with the amplification of the crowd noise from that spot, building almost like a crescendo.
I was both insanely pleased and very jealous while checking my phone for updates tonight. :)
by Eric Stephen on Sep 22, 2011 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions
It really is a great, great spot to watch the game from. I hit a winner tonight with Kemp; if I had gotten the pass for Tuesday (I bet it was Roberto here), I would have hit the exacta. How awesome a week would that be?
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by David Young on Sep 22, 2011 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions
And I would have seen Phil, Joe and BH’s cougars!
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by David Young on Sep 22, 2011 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks.
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- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
by David Young on Sep 22, 2011 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions
All I personally saw was the 3 doubles. Holy shit.
by hee came hee seop'd he choi'd on Sep 22, 2011 11:26 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I say yay
"Champions last year," he said. "Not this year." - Rubby De La Rosa after shaming the Giants in ST
I had no idea that Gagne won a Cy Young.
I’m completely against any reliever ever winning the Cy Young. I hope it never happens again.
That year he may have actually been one of the best choices
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=650&position=P
4.5 WAR from a closer, and I don’t think he blew a save all season. Clearly there may have been better choices, but definitely one of the best years for a reliever ever and in a year where there weren’t terribly better choices.
I just don’t think that someone who throws 82 innings should beat someone who throws 200+.
Schmidt had an fWAR of more than 2 better than Gagne and 1.6 bWAR better than Gagne.
I think that any good pitcher could be an elite closer.
Honestly it was highway robbery
All the sweeter that Gagne took it from Schmidt that year. Just too bad that schmidt really got his payback years later.
Heh. Someone tweeted this and the MVP retweeted it
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by David Young on Sep 22, 2011 11:36 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Swesoke!
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by David Young on Sep 22, 2011 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions
HOMERUNulus!
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by David Young on Sep 22, 2011 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions
That was awesome, I just heard him say that and tweeted it
Matty Potter and the MVP Stone.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Good night
From the Vin Scully Press Box everyone!
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by David Young on Sep 22, 2011 11:41 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I find this part from MCC's "Join MCC" disclaimer very amusing
Swear if you must, but picking your spots will make the swearing much more effective.
Jerking around Brandon Belt pretty much pissed everybody in SF off
The more you drink, the less gruesome I look.
Writing and inciting at Barca Blaugranes
Troll @shadowking011
Does any team really LOVE their manager?
"Champions last year," he said. "Not this year." - Rubby De La Rosa after shaming the Giants in ST
If this is indeed it for Kuroda, it's been great
That pitch to Victorino’s dome will never be forgotten…
The more you drink, the less gruesome I look.
Writing and inciting at Barca Blaugranes
Troll @shadowking011
I can't believe
that there isn’t more attention that Matt Kemp is about one swing away from being on top of the Triple Crown leader board.
by dodgerpreacher on Sep 22, 2011 11:53 PM PDT reply actions
They started hyping it tonight on ESPN and there will probably be even more hype going forward. He’s made such a big jump in batting average that it’s caught them off guard.
Right
I mean he was on the periphery for the triple crown, but as soon as six days ago trailed in batting average by 15-20 points.
I would guess there will be a shitload of triple crown talk after tonight.
by Eric Stephen on Sep 22, 2011 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Just noticed it myself as well
And I would love nothing more than for Matt Kemp to win every trophy there is. Nothing but good things to say about that guy.
Wear your own fur.
by Marc Fournier on Sep 23, 2011 12:52 AM PDT up reply actions
KEMvP! KEMvP!
Amazing. Just watched the last few innings on tape and wowsa. What a show.
Enjoyed skimming through y’alls comments, too.
The guy who plays goalie for my soccer team is a Dodger fan from LA and we were quietly checking out the score before our game and feeling good (which translated into our own Bison like victory).
And yes, kudos to Kuroda. Hope he comes back for one more but if not, I bow to him.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
speaking of bowing, I also liked Aaron Miles little "I'm not worthy" bow to Kemp at the victory high five line
Well, he isn’t worthy, but was still funny.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Also: Suck it Plaschke. Where's your apology column?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
"They could still have an opening day lineup that includes, Martin, Loney, Tony Abreu and Andre Ethier"--Plaschke
Abreu over Kemp. Yep. That would’ve been a GREAT idea.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Since it's now Friday
Number 27 is now 27
by Eric Stephen on Sep 23, 2011 12:18 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
dude, it's Matty's birthday?
Happy prime years buddy. Keep doing what you’re doing: Smile, Encourage, Lead! and Get Paid! You’ve earned it.
I'm goofy
So glad we didn’t trade Kemp and Broxton to Baltimore for Bedard in December 2007. Not sure how close that trade was to ever being consummated. The Dodgers were one of several teams in the Kuroda sweepstakes, so it’s quite possible that they were waiting to see if Hiroki would sign with them and if he signed with another team, then they would pull the trigger on Kemp and Broxton for Bedard. The source in that ESPN article said that the Dodgers “wanted Bedard bad.” So Hiroki might have rescued us in more ways than one.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3140986&name=winter_meetings
by The Dude Abides on Sep 23, 2011 12:40 AM PDT reply actions
We don’t have to endure Trayvon’s strikeouts because of him!
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
It always used to anger me
when our young major leaguers were called “prospects” by the idiot press, while every other team’s prospects were minor leaguers. Kemp and Ethier’s second seasons? “Prospects.” Ugh. I think it comes from how other teams always thought they could fool ol’ Ned into giving up top young players for mediocre veterans.
by The Dude Abides on Sep 23, 2011 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Looks like it was a great game!
too bad i missed it…
"They say The Jet's lost a step or two... but I wouldn't be surprised to see some fireworks here."
Hey DodgerSF
Did ya make it to any of the games at Pacbell?
"Champions last year," he said. "Not this year." - Rubby De La Rosa after shaming the Giants in ST
yes i did!
i met up with underdog and Mr. F briefly.
"They say The Jet's lost a step or two... but I wouldn't be surprised to see some fireworks here."
Oh my mighty pitching one, pitching one.
Thank you for giving us your LA run, Kuroda
Ooh you make our rotation run, rotation run.
A warrior coming off the mound, Kuroda
Don’t want to see you stop, or give you up.
Such a samurai.
Ned needs to sign you up
For another run in Dodger Blue.
My my my i yi Blue!
My My My My Kuroda
"It takes a special fan to root for a last place moribund bankrupt franchise."
by Little Blue Bicycle on Sep 23, 2011 6:42 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
NICE!!
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Remarkable
That at this point in the season BOTH Kemp and Kershaw are within striking distance of a Triple Crown.
It’s really awesome that both of their ceilings have been reached in the same season.
by Julio Nievas on Sep 23, 2011 8:08 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
easy there
I know you mean this as a compliment to them, but I am not limiting either of them yet
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 23, 2011 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Clayton has reached elite with the elites status. Kemp can reach 10 bWAR at season’s end.
Theyre high up there
by Julio Nievas on Sep 23, 2011 8:46 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh I see what you mean. Yeah, my comment didnt mean that they have reached theor extreme limits yet
by Julio Nievas on Sep 23, 2011 8:48 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yep...
…I know who my late round pitching pick is next year for Fantasy baseball. His slider is insane.
Yes he is
That was not the same Matt Moore I saw in the Red Sox game
by Julio Nievas on Sep 23, 2011 8:06 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Loving that Lincecum will make $20mil in arbitration this year and still be arb eligible again afterwards.
record raise for this year of arb was a $5.9mil raise Carlos Zambrano got. Starting from Lincecum’s $14mil salary this year, even if he only tied the record (which I think is a starting point, not an average) he’d get $19.9M.
especially since that raise Zambrano got wasn’t exactly recent, and he didn’t have two Cy Youngs and a third dominant season.
13 - 13*
*I don’t know if that matters to arbitrators or not.
Timmy’s going to have the greatest bong collection of all time.
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true, his record may limit him, but his agent will be able to point to him being 3rd in the league in Ks, 5th in ERA and winning 13 games for the league’s worst offense.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/09/tim-lincecum-prefers-short-term-deals.html
Possible 2 year $40-$50 million? There’s just no comparable pitcher since the Arb era that has been close to him. Until Kershaw wins the next 4 Cy Young’s of course.
Weisman
…love his take on the end of this season. I, too, was depressed for a long time. But, this team has really been something to watch. One thing I absolutely love is the chemistry. These guys look like they really enjoy playing together. I know we’ve all been critical of Mattingly’s in-game decisions, but he did a great job holding this team together and I think deserves a ton of credit for that.
Umm…Go Wildcats- let’s not lose by 50 on Saturday.
His fWAR made a jump too. He’s only .1 from Bautista!
by Julio Nievas on Sep 23, 2011 8:03 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
the gap between bWAR and fWAR are problems
the fact that there are two WAR standards is a problem
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 23, 2011 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions
and we wonder why the dinosaurs are slow to adopt
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 23, 2011 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Still waiting to see if this was staged
I have my doubts, but still, who’d a thunk a host from the Tony’s could break a dude’s jaw in WWE?
WHAMMY!
I liked it.
Whereas my girlfriend only liked the tub make-out scene.
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I watched that night and he looked like he clocked him good
Ziggler looked pissed later on, and was holding his jaw, but for a fractured jaw he’s a tough dude.
Hearing those MVP chants on the telecast was just...chilling.
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I always think about Kemp's love for the Lakers
He has probably seen so many games where Kobe has gotten that same chant, now he’s getting the love from the fans. If only greedy McCourt hadn’t effed up LA’s view of the team this season, the place probably would have been filled tonight, can you imagine 54K fans chanting MVP? Awesome!
WHAMMY!
If only Jaime didn’t bone the driver
Which led to the divorce
which led to the trial
which led to the disclosure
ah, nevermind
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 23, 2011 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Nah...
If it wasn’t a year ago, it would have been soon. Poop always rises to the top, and the McCourts are absolutely, 100%, steaming piles of feces.
WHAMMY!
by Champ Kind on Sep 23, 2011 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oh you disagree?
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, I for one have been disgusted with all that I have learned about McCourt, his private life aside, what he has done to this organization and the way he has potentially leveraged the future so he can fly in private jets and eat beluga caviar while having his hair styled by Russian scientists today, just pisses me right off.
WHAMMY!
Hey, who isn't?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
by underdog on Sep 23, 2011 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can't be any more pissed than I am
And I struggle to see how you think an owner in the 2nd largest market who’s stated mission is to rise prices while cutting costs is a good thing. But whatever.
WHAMMY!
You know what I mean
Cutting costs through efficiency, yes, marching down payroll by making absurd deals that back load payments so that the team is hamstrung with a payroll for a squad that hasn’t been on the field in over 5 years is just awful.
WTF? Why am I even having this argument, there is no known baseball writer, analyst, pundit, or fan in the known world who thinks McCourt is good for baseball, and yet I seem to have found one.
WHAMMY!
I didn’t say he was good for baseball, just keep in mind he is neither the only guy doing what he does nor the worst owner in baseball. I’d take Frank any day over Loria. How do you think Royals fans feel? Their owner has a 25% stake in Walmart, is worth 14.6 billion dollars, and their payroll stays in the $30mil range.
I’ll take Glass any day, he’ll start spending when he needs to.
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
But they are Kansas City.
This isn’t that franchise, this isn’t even the Clippers (a 2nd tier organization playing second fiddle to the Lakers.) So I don’t think the comparison is apt.
WHAMMY!
The Royals and Dodgers won their last world series titles at about the same time. We’ve had exactly the same number of championships as them in the last 20 years, so I’m not sure they’re entitled to any lower expectations than us.
Back off. You started by saying everyone is entiteled to their own opinion and now you are saying “what the fuck” because he expressed his opinion.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
It amuses me that this comment popped up
as I was hitting send on my all caps comment
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
No, all this after taking shots at another poster after claiming to respect people’s opinions
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, perhaps my comments are being read in a different light
I’m exasperated that I find myself having to defend my frustration with being pissed at McCourt. But I don’t recall taking shots or personally attacking anyone?
WHAMMY!
http://www.truebluela.com/2011/9/22/2443851/kuroda-walks-out-a-winner-matt-kemp-an-mvp#78146598
Everyone is entitled to their opinions
Everyone? Or just everyone who agrees with you?
Everyone
If I have said something that infers I believe others shouldn’t be allowed to express their opinions, my apologies, but I don’t think I have.
WHAMMY!
If you aren't willing
to defend your opinion, maybe you shouldn’t express it.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Have I not?
Seems as though I made a statement, then had two individuals call me out and state why I was incorrect, so I attempted to back it up. Now apparently I am in favor of censoring others and telling them to STFU. Don’t recall doing that, but I guess if I disagree then I am not allowing others to have their opinion?
I’m not calling anyone a moron, I’m not saying you personally are a bad person.
I am however saying Frank McCourt is a douche bag, and if I have to be crucified on these boards for that comment, well then so bet it. I’m a big boy, I can handle that.
WHAMMY!
I should just leave this alone
This entire thread has circled the drain and gotten away from me, but I guess I’m trying to edumacate myself to these boards.
I’m not as frequent a poster as some, so I’m doing my best to catch up, please enlighten me, where did I go wrong?
WHAMMY!
It happens to the best of us
Hard not to have something like this come up every once in a while. Though everyone knows I’d never argue a stupid topic and get mad about it :)
I’m looking through this thread and I can’t see where Champ personally attacked any TBLA poster…only the McCourts. This is the only comment I can see that is remotely argumentative, but it’s certainly not personal.
And I struggle to see how you think an owner in the 2nd largest market who’s stated mission is to rise prices while cutting costs is a good thing. But whatever.
by The Dude Abides on Sep 23, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm at a loss too
can’t see where Champ went wrong.
by RoyaleWithCheeze on Sep 23, 2011 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
if you take manny off the books you have to also remove all his homeruns and all the pleasure he brought you. backloading is pretty common so i don’t know why you would have a problem with that.
I doubt the McCourt martial discord had its genesis there. That’s just the public thing we know about.
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Saw this, looks like the hit parade should continue in SD
Kemp’s mother Judy was in town from her home in Oklahoma and she’ll follow her son to San Diego for a three-game series starting Friday.
"I might take her to Arizona, too," Kemp said, laughing. "Every time my mom comes, I play good."
WHAMMY!
Whole season could hve bee nturned around
if we only knew where Navarro’s mom was.
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
or
if they’d never signed him in the first place
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Just took a look at WAR formulas for the first time.
Pitching WAR counts all runs, earned and unearned, equally? I’m struggling to find a rationale on why unearned runs should be included.
cal. lakers. dodgers. packers. chelsea.
vols. rangers. galaxy.
The biggest difference between fWAR and bWAR is that fWAR is FIP based and bWAR is ERA based.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Quick and dirty explanation
FIP attempts to measure the only aspects the pitcher controls which is walks, strikeouts and homeruns. As such, it eliminates BABIP from the equation.
Also, FIP could penalize you for unearned runs. If theres an error with 2 outs and then you give up 6 homeruns, you’re still going to get dinged for the homeruns.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions
And for hitters, fWAR uses wOBA (wRC+) while bWAR uses OPS (OPS+.) I think they might use different fielding metrics too. I know fWAR uses UZR, but bWAR might use range factor. Not sure about that though.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Time for you to link some of your know your stats articles.
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- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Thought about it. I might re-write them this winter. The FIP article was the first post I wrote for this blog and it was 2 years ago so I might start over and take a look at them fresh.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
How about your five favorite stats? ;-)
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The build-up is just getting to a critical mass. Good buzz going. I’ll drop it on you when you least expect it.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Just to slow him down we should do a post – season fab five so he can create some comparison notations
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
I suspect many lists of five favorites will include Kemp and Kershaw twice each
by Eric Stephen on Sep 23, 2011 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Kuo will have the largest drop we have seen from season to season since we started doing this.
Chad is also going to fall hard.
Dee will probably have the largest % jump into the fab five.
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Martin had a crazy drop from one year to another, and he was still on the team.
Dee having the largest jump sounds about right. And again, if only RDLR were still around….
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Still think he will make many a list
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
He definitely would have made mine, and you’re right, he still might. He was brilliant when he came up. I had no idea how much movement he had on his 95+ fastballs.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
If a new list came up
and I left off some people who may be gone next year, Sands, Kenley and/or Dee would definitely make my list.
the wOBA article
definitely helped when I first came here.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Get that Dodgers.com email on the Clemente Award voting?
I’d like to vote for Kershaw for the Roberto Clemente Award finalist but the MLB.com fan voting thing is wrapped up with a bunch of Chevy promotional stuff that I find pretty irritating, given the humanitarian nature of the award. Sigh. You have to list when you’re buying a car, what you’re interested in, get on a Chevy list. I’m sure Clemente would be pleased to know all this.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
someone has to pay for everything
one of the ways that is done is advertising
I tire of it too, but I get it
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 23, 2011 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions
It's not advertising though, I agree with you, it's just part of the deal now, but it's integrated into the voting
that you have to do.
here’s a link: http://mlb.mlb.com/sponsors/chevy/clemente/y2011/?tcid=Club-EM-Clemente-2011&cmp=OLA_BRAND_5766580_0
try to go through the process of voting for Kershaw (of course) and tell me if the information page is irritating beyond usual or if it’s just me.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
LOL
I missed this story from the LAT that Vin told
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 8:23 AM PDT reply actions
Fun with Stereotypes
Nerd: You really need to stop looking at wins and saves and that kind of garbage
Dinosaur: Hmmm, well what about Batting average and ERA?
Nerd: Better, but still give and incomplete picture blah, blah, OPS, OPS+, blah, blah, but what you really need to look at is WAR, WAR is the most accurate way to understand how a player contributes to winning games
Dinosaur: If it is so accurate, then why are there two of them
Nerd: um
Easy answer for the nerd. If the nerd already hated ERA and batting average, he wouldn’t use bWAR.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Nice!
IMO the sabermetrics have evolved how we look at the game, which is a great thing, but they aren’t perfect, and so to bash certain “old time” metrics while bringing in slightly less flawed ones isn’t going to quiet the critics.
WHAMMY!
I have to admit, I used to be one of those “deniers”, mostly because I used to play baseball and I was angered by friends who never played who thought they knew more about the game. But then I read Moneyball and realized that I was exactly the type of player that was undervalued (got on base, didn’t walk batters or give up home runs, yadda yadda).
Ultimately, if a team has the resources, the more information the better. I’m fine with old-school analysis being used if it has relevance (guy who doesn’t want to play baseball but is good at it v. guy who wants to improve, works hard to improve, but isn’t as good as first players, yadda yadda).
cal. lakers. dodgers. packers. chelsea.
vols. rangers. galaxy.
it all counts
eyes and numbers
they are both valid
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 23, 2011 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions
In high school, our “#1” starter was a guy who cared more about getting high than playing baseball. He was a blisteringly hard thrower who got all the crowds for his 20 K games. Too bad he walked 10 in a game and seemed to give up home runs after a couple of walks.
On the other hand, I didn’t strike out anybody, but I barely walked anyone as well, and pretty much every hit I gave up was on the ground. I was grateful that my coach understood who was the more valuable pitcher.
Reading Moneyball really struck a chord.
cal. lakers. dodgers. packers. chelsea.
vols. rangers. galaxy.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in a lot of the sabermetrics
Including OBP, OPS, etc. But some of the measures are a little more complicated to calculate, and they still rely on certain attributes that I find difficult to swallow. Like how do you compare a speedy outfielder who has a ton of range, but makes errors cause he got there when the slower, older outfielder has half the range but doesn’t make the same “errors” because he never would have got there to begin with. I know that there are scatter plot maps that look at some of this, but it still feels less than precise to me.
WHAMMY!
nobody is perfect, but for understanding past performance and predicting future performance nothing beats the new style, but also need to appreciate the that new style is just a stop on a train that will continue to evolve
most of the old time metrics need to be bashed and smashed until they are trashed. they are misleading and tools for ignorance
by Hollywood Joe on Sep 23, 2011 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions
I like using advanced metrics to see where someone has been, but I find the eyes more telling for seeing where someone is going.
You can map your route, but keep your eyes on the road.
I thoroughly agree!
I find that the new metrics are great for understanding past performance, but they can not predict much with any real certainty. There are too many other factors.
WHAMMY!
Kemp's gonna see some haranging balls to knock out of the park.
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also
two LHP
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Just get one in San Diego. Then unload in Arizona.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Unload in San Diego, then unload in Arizona.
44/44 wins MVP unanimously
by Eric Stephen on Sep 23, 2011 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
When Soriano did 46/41 he finished 6th(!) in the MVP voting.
Of course, he also didn’t have a .400 OBP and I’m guessing he played side-show defense that he’s known for.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Pujols finished second.
Since coming up in 2001, Pujols’s average MVP Finish is 2.7. Unreal. He’s won twice, finished 9th once, and been second or third every other year.
He's bashed his way back into the top 10 for sure this year. Some people think he should win
And I wonder what they are on.
I thought about that yesterday
He was a LF at the time and he only hit about .280. Kemp’s beasting compared to him.
Not much talk about Tommy last night?
You gotta believe that he gave them a decent pep talk, told them about the hated Giants, how much we should crush them, etc.
WHAMMY!
they had him mic'ed
so he had a few quips. I really wanted to hear what he said when Kemp hit his homerun.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions
probably close
:)
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions
bull hockey
Tommy had the uni on, you know he was pumped
/maybe
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I couldn't cheer in the press box
But I was shaking my head at that home run. At first I thought it was hit too high to get out. Maybe the highest HR I’ve seen a Dodger hit since Manny was here. And to center!
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- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
What are we going to do with the rotation
If Kuroda doesn’t come back next year? The market is gonna be so thin.
I personally would like to see the dodgers bring back Edwin Jackson… Or maybe take a flier on Piniero coming off a down year? I hear Jonathan Sanchez might be non-tendered. Besides these three, there doesn’t seem to be anyone I’d even like to see in blue.
Ya, it’s a toughie. Only 3 guys set for the rotation. If it was 4 (like if RDLR hadn’t gotten hurt) then they could have rolled the dice on Webster/Eo/NRI parade. It’s not a great plan, but if you spend the money on a big bat, it’s hard to argue with the approach.
But you can’t do that with 2 open spots, so they have to go out and sign a free agent. And like you, I don’t really have a good answer.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions
anyone think
Garland might get another chance? If his shoulder is cleaned up, he can be an effective pitcher.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I was just thinking
I wouldn’t mind having him back at a (severely) reduced rate
by Bard in Black on Sep 23, 2011 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
him or Padilla
though I think Padilla might be more of a dice roll than Garland. Neck’s are tricky.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
looked fine
last night!
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I was at the game last night
Did people here feel it was a quick hook for HK? Only ~90 pitches and the game was well under control. I thought they’d try to push him for a CG in his final Dodgers Stadium start.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I think the perception is that when Kuroda loses it, he loses it fast. IIRC, the hook wasn’t expected, but it wasn’t complained about either.
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- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
It looked to me
like Donnie went out and asked him something. Kuroda nodded, and then Donnie signaled the pen. Maybe he was getting tired.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Kuroda pointed to his shoulder and Donnie thought he meant he was hurtin. It will be revealed years later that he was simply tiring and wanted to keep going.
by G.Scott on Sep 23, 2011 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
hahahaha
nice
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions
After last night I’m a lot more concerned about Bumgarner’s neck.
by G.Scott on Sep 23, 2011 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think
because of his propensity for giving up big innings… It was already getting out of control and they wanted to protect him/stay in a do or die type game
by Bard in Black on Sep 23, 2011 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Garland at Garland-type production would be great. But he’s old and he just missed an entire year to injury, so I don’t think he’s a pitcher you can much count on anymore than signing 6 NRIs and hoping one sticks.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
What about Oswalt?
Are the Phillies gonna decline their side of the option?
by Bard in Black on Sep 23, 2011 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
probably
but they could always re-sign him
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
It's extremely hard to speculate about next year's roster
when we have about zero clue what the budget will be for next year. Normally there is decent sense about the range it will fall in, but who knows for next year?
Many of us have speculated that season ticket sales are going to take a fearsome plummet, but if the team is featuring the reigning MVP and Cy Young award winners…..
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- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
… or not…
Thus a much wider than normal range of potential budgets.
Follow @DavidYoungTBLA
- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
But regardless of the budget
I doubt the dodgers will start the season without at least one of those rotation spots filled by a free agent/trade. That’s gotta be the first priority, right?
by Bard in Black on Sep 23, 2011 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions
The ways you fill a hole can change a lot if your payroll budget is, say $75M vs. $105M.
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- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
I agree with Bard, though. Now that we know there are 2 holes rather than 1 in the rotation, it changes priorities quite a bit. The club simply has to address to SP need before addressing hitting needs.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
My feeling is the Dodgers will have $12-15M to spend on two spots — #4 SP and 2B/3B. If they get an Aramis Ramirez, then we’ll see a cut-rate 4th starter. If they resign Kuroda, we’ll see a cut-rate infielder.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Do they throw in the towl on the budget knowing they are going to lose season tickets
or go all in and buy the season ticket holders a pony and hope for the best?
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Pony
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
If they get the money we defenitly get a pony
if they don’t I still wonder if they try to get a big name anyways just to try to put buts in the seat to make the moneys.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
I can't see the Giants letting Sanchez go for nothing
I like the idea of Edwin Jackson, but I worry about the number of years. If we sign him, I’m hoping Kenley shows him his cutter grip and says, “you try it now.”
by The Dude Abides on Sep 23, 2011 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't know
There has been a lot of noise about him getting non-tendered. I’m sure they’d try to resign him at a reduced rate though… Any idea as to how their relationship is with Sanchez? I doubt it’d be helped by a non-tender
by Bard in Black on Sep 23, 2011 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions
It
Is definitely almost 5:00 pm here. I am eating mini savory pies with good pint. Glad to see Kemp doing well. HJ, I don’t know how that man travels so much.
(Continue to) have a great trip!
Follow @DavidYoungTBLA
- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
Today's birthdays
Bruce “The Boss” Springsteen.
Matt “Like a Boss” Kemp.
Follow @DavidYoungTBLA
- The commenter formerly known as El Lay Dave.
And John Coltrane (RIP)
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I love that ESPN keeps the stats of “Tough Loss” and “Cheap Win” under their “Sabremetric Stats” column.
Cheap win being when a pitcher gets a win without recording a quality start, a tough loss bineg a quality start that results in a loss.
Lincecum is 2nd in the NL with 7 Tough Losses, tied with Mat Latos and Hiroki Kuroda.
Clayton Kershaw is not in the top 40 for Tough Losses because he never had the misfortune of having to face Clayton Kershaw.
by G.Scott on Sep 23, 2011 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
heh
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes
and have a much smaller stadium, but the Giants are only 3th in % seats sold. The Twins are 4th at 99.4%
Helps to have a new stadium, no?
BTW, Twins new stadium looks awesome on TV.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Helps if 2,389,954% of your fanbase are bandwagon fans.
cal. lakers. dodgers. packers. chelsea.
vols. rangers. galaxy.
According to Eric Stephen Industries, Inc., a for-profit corporation, 100% of Giants fans still suck.
by Eric Stephen on Sep 23, 2011 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
crack research team there
at ESI Inc.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Gamesmanship runs deep
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
Why out this story on himself?
The smarter GM would have kept this to himself, and kept on doing it to Boston year after year. This is like a poker player who just can’t help himself and shows you his hand after you fold, to prove that he was bluffing. Why do it?
Wait 10 years and write a biography detailing how you screwed your rival. This is just pride.
WHAMMY!
Great Stuff David
the game thread was fun to review since I missed the game. I had checked the box score when Matt had three hits so it was a complete surprise to read the thread and the buildup to his fourth hit, the Potter Bomb.
I know the LA Times (Dilbeck anyway) is thinking this is it for Hiroki but he’s had to have had so much fun that if the Dodgers do manage a real budget again, he’s coming back one more year to see if this group can complete what they started back in 2008. JMO
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
word
I liked that the crowd gave Hiro a standing ovation on his way to the dugout.
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Sep 23, 2011 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Just perusing the leaderboards on Baseball-Reference (aka the Matt Kemp page), and Mike Stanton leads the National League in defensive WAR. Huh.
Prodigious power, not yet 22, and really good defense (if true)??? Holy shit.
Who needs Friday Night Fireworks
Then, like a well-crafted pyrotechnics show, he saved the biggest bang for last, capping off his evening by launching a towering, two-run, moon-shot home run to dead center field in the eight inning off mop-up man Barry Zito
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
This is the 4th time I read one of Julio Pena’s comment and thinking it was mine at first.
by Julio Nievas on Sep 23, 2011 9:24 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Ya, I confuse you two all the time too.
by Michael White on Sep 23, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
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by Julio Pena on Sep 23, 2011 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
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